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**Amanda Silver:** That's right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Within these bounds, you have agency to do this thing. |
**Amanda Silver:** Correct. Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Without all those bounds, it is a no. |
**Amanda Silver:** Yeah. When we talk about like what are the skill sets that developers are going to need to have for the future, it's still the same complex systems reasoning. When you think about "If I have multiple policies that I am applying to how to manage infrastructure during a live site incident" - that in an... |
**Break**: \[46:29\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Are you thinking about how these agents manifest as a visible layer to this agentic internet and web that was alluded to? Because I'm thinking like -- |
**Amanda Silver:** I love that. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There's this idea of agents available, and so why recreate the wheel...? I was really just thinking about the idea of a secret agent. \[laughter\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Why were you doing that, Adam? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I was just like "That's a really cool name for an agent that doles out secrets", maybe. Or just deals with authentication and authorization kind of thing. If there was an agent, if there was a secret agent... |
**Amanda Silver:** That's cute. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And I would want to discover that secret agent. |
**Amanda Silver:** That's cute. Okay. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Anyways... |
**Amanda Silver:** Well, a couple things I would say about that. First of all, yes, I think in terms of thinking about the common way that you can go interact with all of these different agents - yes, I do think that ultimately, our goal is that GitHub Copilot can become that common substrate. It's almost like the omni... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Sure. I was just wanting to call it a secret agent, though. \[laughter\] |
**Amanda Silver:** No, but here's the thing, though. Here's the thing. I have kind of two jobs at Microsoft. One is I'm head of product for our developer division, and the other job is I'm basically the GM for our platform engineering team. And so that means that basically we build all of the tools and all of the polic... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Very dangerous. |
**Amanda Silver:** And if you have them in your codebases, then if you have malicious actors, they can go in and try to exfiltrate your code and get your secrets, and then get access to your infrastructure. So generally, we are trying to move towards a system where we do not have secrets checked into our codebases. Tha... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, then I propose that you make that a product. \[laughter\] |
**Amanda Silver:** Done, sir. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And you call it Secret Agent, and you credit Adam Stacoviak as the idea for the \[unintelligible 00:50:46.28\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Just in the fine print at the bottom... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I just like that. It's so cool to have that. Make that a thing. |
**Jerod Santo:** Make that a thing... Now you have three jobs at Microsoft. The third one is to get that thing named Secret Agent. |
**Amanda Silver:** I'm working on a Secret Agent. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's catchy. |
**Amanda Silver:** I think it's called GitHub Advanced Security. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, there you go. It's a cool name, but... |
**Jerod Santo:** A.k.a... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...it's not a brand. Secret Agent...! |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, if you whisper it, it sounds even cooler. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's right. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, my. So do you think about cascading effects? Especially - I'm just back on the SRE side of things, and thinking about turning over so much to... |
**Amanda Silver:** Control. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah... To software agents... Which, again, are - what did Nathan Sobo call it? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** A genius golden retriever on acid. |
**Jerod Santo:** On acid, yes. Which - maybe those are the models he's working with. But you know, a thing that you don't ultimately know what it's going to do. Now, you can train, and fine-tune, and guard, and watch agents watching agents all you want... However, we've seen at scale the internet operating, distributed... |
\[52:09\] One thing that I think about is some of these stock market trades, when you have quick corrections or crashes is because you have software making margin calls and trading with software programs, and eventually what happens is the New York Stock Exchange actually just stops everything and is like "Let's chill ... |
**Amanda Silver:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** And I think there's a potential of that kind of thing with agent SREs, changing the memory on your VM, and then this happens... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Like a race condition amongst agents, or something like that. |
**Jerod Santo:** And I'm wondering -- I know you all think about security a lot, and... What kind of stuff is out there for just making sure that maybe there's a pull-the-plug moment, or a way that you can get back in the loop and say "Okay, let's just chill out here, guys." |
**Amanda Silver:** That's a fantastic question. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Guys... You called them guys. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, just a team, you know... |
**Amanda Silver:** So I think generally what our approach is is that we want to make sure that every agentic workflow is completely auditable, so that we can see what the agent is actually executing, look over it in history; that we do have controls over it to be able to say "These are the resources that you have acces... |
And then we also want to have this common agentic control layer across all of the software that uses agents, so that we can see what those agents are actually actively doing, what resources they have access to, and restrict what they have access to if they start to go astray. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
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