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**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah. So when you click Play on a terminal, there's a bunch that goes on behind the scenes. Currently, the frontend makes a call to the backend to ask it to open a pseudo terminal, and then it gets a handle back, and then it starts writing to that with the input you've provided it... That's like a s... |
**Jerod Santo:** It's more minimal, does less heavy lifting, so that a different terminal could call a runbook and run it from there. Is that going to require you to first figure out a more permanent serialization format, or you already have that? |
**Ellie Huxtable:** No... So the serialization is -- there's the in-memory format and then the on-disk format. The on-disk format is the one that's up for change, the in-memory one we're happy with. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. Right on. It is open source... Is it open contribution? How do you, why do you, when do you, how do you...? Tell me more. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** \[laughs\] So we accept contributions from anyone. We accept fixes especially quickly. Features - this is something I never really planned out with the CLI, because I didn't think anyone would care when I first released that. We never really thought about how to accept feature requests from people..... |
For instance, there's been a pull request open for a really long time that I feel kind of bad about, but someone's added PowerShell support, which is super-cool. However, when he first opened the pull request, I haven't seen very many pull requests from the guy. And if he's listening, I really appreciate your work and ... |
But jumping back to your original question - open contribution, fixes... Like, anyone fix anything and open a pull request, I'm super-grateful and we'll review it as quickly as possible. Features - if there's an open issue for something and someone really wants it and wants to make a PR for it, that's awesome. But I do... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. It's a lot easier if it's just an issue. If there's code behind it, you're like "Oh, you spent all this time..." |
**Ellie Huxtable:** \[48:20\] Yeah, you spent all this time on it, and then that's not something we're going to merge, and I'm really sorry. |
**Jerod Santo:** Do you communicate a roadmap, or like a place where you're headed? Because sometimes it's hard to know... Like, I have a feature request. Obviously, I could just ask... But if I knew "Here's here's our direction", I could at least say if I'm tangential to it or not. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** So a roadmap is on the roadmap. \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay... \[laughs\] |
**Ellie Huxtable:** I'm planning on doing it soon. |
**Jerod Santo:** You have a roadmap that includes to create a roadmap. I like that. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah. So soon, we'll be writing a ton of issues. Realistically, I've got internal notes and various other things on what needs doing, and now that we're open source, that needs to be made public. The format of the roadmap will probably be mostly GitHub issues, just because that's what's accessible t... |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, it came years later. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Exactly. So Discourse - we host a Discourse forum, and that's been a nice place to host discussions. |
**Jerod Santo:** What about the CLI? Do you consider it mostly done? Does it have a major feature requests? Is there a roadmap for that, or what's the status of the CLI tool? |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah, there's less of a roadmap, more of a bug fixes I will try and get to as soon as possible. Features - I tend to prefer features a lot of people ask for, or that I personally really feel the need for... Which is a little bit selfish, but you know... But it's very much -- I would rather see enoug... |
**Jerod Santo:** And are those conversations going on in the GitHub issues, or is there a separate place for those? |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Usually GitHub issues, people will make a feature request and then it can be discussed. But yeah, I need to get better at managing those, because it's a bit of a mess. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[51:01\] Fair. Such is life, it gets messy, and sometimes it stays messy... Especially when you have a shiny new object that you're paying all your attention to, right? I mean, this thing is a big lift; I can tell that you put a lot of work into this. And you can't spend all your time on the CLI when ... |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah, I think it's definitely -- I don't want to neglect the CLI. We had one of our users thank us for not neglecting it, which was nice, because I'm glad people feel that way. But the CLI is definitely much more mature... We've noticed -- you know, when I first released it, a lot of the early issue... |
**Jerod Santo:** Something new, or something obscure. Yeah, from my perspective - I mean, I've just been using it kind of how you built it on day one, originally, just ever since. And it just does what it does, and it's mostly invisible. I don't think about it very often. I use it all the time, but without thinking abo... |
**Ellie Huxtable:** We have a lot of people tell us that they didn't realize how valuable it was until they didn't have it. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, yeah. That's gotta feel good. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah, that's cool. |
**Jerod Santo:** And who knows, when I get a new machine, maybe I'll finally get the sync to be useful for me... I'm like the only person that doesn't care about syncing things. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Let me know if you do, it'd be cool. \[laughter\] |
**Jerod Santo:** And I'm going to try to find a way to use this desktop app. I love your work, and I think you put a lot of thought into the way you go about building software, and I think that that's rare, and just refreshing... And it just makes for tools that are delightful to use. And I can tell you put a lot of lo... |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah. I hope you do, but I think in terms of users, it's like, the CLI has a very broad -- you know, if you use a terminal, it's probably useful. Whereas the runbooks app is like maybe less broad use case, but in terms of the actual use, it's much deeper. |
**Jerod Santo:** For sure. If you're a user of this, it's going to be part of your daily job, and your team will rely upon it. It'll be very valuable for the people who do use it. So I agree, it'll go deep. And these are people who are generally well-employed at places that have complicated infrastructure, and they nee... |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Exactly. Yeah. That's what we've been seeing. |
**Jerod Santo:** Very cool. It was awesome to catch up with you. You've been doing a lot... Anything that we didn't talk about with regard to Atuin, the CLI, the desktop, San Francisco, motorcycles...? Anything else that you think we should discuss? |
**Ellie Huxtable:** think we covered pretty much everything. It's been a good chat. |
**Jerod Santo:** Absolutely. Well, the website atuin.sh - there you'll find both the desktop app and the CLI. Maybe you'll use them both, maybe you'll use one of them... Maybe you won't use either one, but you can check them out. They're open source. If you want a good Rust codebase to check out, and maybe contribute t... |
Ellie, thank you so much. I wish you all the best with this new endeavor... And definitely keep us in the loop, especially if the self-hosted thing comes out. As more things are released and open sourced, don't be a stranger. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Thank you very much. It's been great talking to you. |
• Sugu Sougoumarane's three-year sabbatical and decision to return to work |
• Reasons for taking sabbatical: burnout and completing a 12-year project on Vitess |
• History of Vitess and its purpose: a database scaling solution to address YouTube's scalability issues |
• Sugu's role at PlanetScale and his relationship with co-founder Sam Lambert |
• Sam Lambert's role at PlanetScale and his impact on the company |
• Industry changes and the continued importance of databases and infrastructure |
• Development of Vitess as a database connection pooler that evolved into a fully sharded solution |
• Vitess' adoption by companies such as Flipkart, HubSpot, and Slack |
• Plans to port Vitess to PostgreSQL, including initial discussions and false starts |
• The challenges of sharding, including the lack of practical implementations and the need to reinvent the concept from the ground up |
• The technical difficulties of sharding, including understanding SQL, query complexity, and relational algebra |
• The process of inventing a solution to shard a database, including a breakthrough moment after months of intense thinking |
• Sharding is difficult because it requires a different way of thinking about query execution and optimization |
• The speaker's "a-ha" moment came when they realized that the application was already computing keyspace IDs and that the system could do it instead |
• The system can support full SQL language with the use of relational algebra and route primitives |
• Keyspace ID can be computed using various methods, including hashing user IDs |
• The speaker's team initially used a random assignment method for keyspace ID, but later transitioned to a unique ID system |
• Vitess supports various sharding schemes, including range-based, hash-based, and lookup-based, and allows users to choose the scheme they want to use. |
• Illustra was a commercialization of Postgres that introduced pluggable indexes, inspiring the concept of externally defined indexes. |
• Vitess is being ported to Postgres, with the goal of maintaining a Postgres-native solution. |
• The Vitess team is leaving behind legacy and poorly implemented components, but bringing over high availability components to improve Postgres' HA story. |
• The team is struggling to determine how to port Go-based plugins to Postgres, which could compromise the native Postgres goal. |
• The team aims to reuse as much knowledge and code from Vitess as possible, considering the significant time and effort invested in its development. |
• Discussion about coming out of retirement to work on Supabase |
• Explanation of why Sugu chose to start Supabase with a existing company rather than as a startup |
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