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**Jerod Santo:** Nice. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** I split that up. It's actually opt-out, but you can't opt out on the launcher. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. So it's opt-out, but you just click a button right there. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah. It's right in your face when you start it up, so it's easy. And it's pretty much - we gained about a thousand signups on the hub, which was really cool to see. We've got people making hundreds and hundreds of runbooks, which is also really cool to see... I think the biggest thing for me though... |
GitHub issues usually imply there's an issue, but it also implies that people care enough to actually tell you that something's not working for their use case, or something's going wrong, and provide like a bunch of steps... We've had people provide some actually really thoughtful GitHub issues as well, which has been ... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[35:54\] Yeah. Well, I did download it, and I'm staring at it currently... It looks very nice. I like that there's some examples, because I'm a guy with zero runbooks, and... I can put my deploy script into here and write about it, but just trying to kick the tires. You have the Atuin desktop release.... |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yup. We run that all the time. |
**Jerod Santo:** You run that one all the time... Which is maybe like seven or eight steps... Updated 23 hours ago, so you're still currently working on it. That's always awesome. And then there's also one -- |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah, we've also got one for the CLI as well. That one's not yet open source, but it's mostly automated; the first 80% of it just runs, and then there's a nice little step of "Go look at this, make sure it's correct, merge the pull request, and then come back to the runbook." |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. So I'm looking at the Atuin Desktop release runbook, and in the upper right there is a green Play button, and in front of me is "Notes. This runbook is a copy of the runbook that we use at Atuin", blah, blah, blah. "Here's dependencies, the release process, version bumps..." It has a typical ki... |
**Ellie Huxtable:** That's right, yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. The upper right hand corner, with the Play - is that going to run the entire script, top to bottom kind of a thing? |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah, that's what it does. So again, it's meant to be flexible enough that you can pick an individual block to run if you need to, or rerun, or whatever... But then if you've built it to be sequential, you can just run the whole thing, end to end. |
**Jerod Santo:** Nice. And then I assume it just like stops when certain parts fail... Because inevitably, with somebody else's runbook, it's going to be like "No, you don't have this thing installed." |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah, it does. Terminals are the only exception. So terminals need to exit in some way, and they won't exit themselves. So because it's an interactive terminal, we don't know when the command you've run is done, or when what you're trying to do has finished... So you either need to exit the terminal... |
**Jerod Santo:** And when you say terminals, you're referring to like an interactive thing that's going to go on in here? |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yes. So we have terminals and scripts. Terminals, it will run like your terminal emulator, just in your docs. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay, so it's going to like block and wait for a response. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah, exactly. Whereas scripts - it's like running Bash on something, basically. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. So in this desktop release, the first thing I see is just a curl command. That's a script, right? |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** And then this says "Terminal, install Cargo Bump." That looks like it's also a script. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Oh, those are terminals. So if you run one of them, it'll open a terminal locally and run the thing. |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. I'm afraid to do that. Oh, look at this... Oh, because I can actually stop and I can say no, which I'm glad I can, because I'm going to stop it right there... Okay, so terminals are interactive, and then scripts are just going to run, and whatever the response of the script the exit code or wha... |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah. The cool thing with scripts is we can capture the output. So if we want to capture the output of a terminal, there's a ton of control codes and various other things going on... But with a script, we can capture the output, and that we save in our local template system. So we support Ginger pre... |
As an example, you might have a Postgres block, and the input for that - you might need a database URI that you can only get by running an AWS secrets manager command, or like a 1Password thing. So you can have all of the setup to get you to that point in your own book, and then you can run the query with the output an... |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. Super-cool. So these examples are very useful, especially if I'm going to start writing my own, because they show you kind of how somebody is really using it... Is there going to be, or is there currently some sort of like compendium of example? Like, beyond your guys' official examples. I assu... |
**Ellie Huxtable:** \[40:00\] So if you were to go to hub.atuin.sh/ellie, you can see my profile... |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay, so this is a thing. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah... |
**Jerod Santo:** For the listener, she didn't ask me to ask this question. I didn't tee her up on purpose. I really did not know. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** \[laughs\] Yeah. You can currently share runbooks only. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** And they only work for using an online workspace. You can mark them as private, public, or unlisted... I might share a Getting Started guide, or a migration guide, or a self-hosting guide for something I'm sharing with the world... Maybe I'll do a build guide for the desktop app. |
One of the other things we want to share on the hub is actual blocks. Currently, you can have saved blocks. Maybe you have something for setting up your dependencies that you do across like 10 different runbooks... You can just save that locally and then import it into various other runbooks. But in the future, you'll ... |
**Jerod Santo:** This is very cool. This seems like fertile ground for early adopters to get out there and build out their profile, you know? Is it accessible to everybody at this point, it's just not like indexed? |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah, go ahead. It's not indexed... Go ahead. \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, go ahead. How do you do it? Like, if I wanted to start publishing, what would I do? |
**Ellie Huxtable:** In the desktop app, when you start it up, it'll offer to make an account. If you said no, just click your profile on the bottom left and you can register there, and that will get you set up with an account. Connect you to the desktop app... You should be good to go. |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. Yeah, so I did appreciate that... One of the things I don't appreciate about desktop apps, that should just be usable local without any sort of account, is when they still don't tell me I can use them locally without an account... And yours does say "Hey, sign up." And then it's like "But if yo... |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Exactly. I want it to be useful offline, I want it to be useful open source... And I think one of the big things we're aiming for is, you know, we might not be around in three years time. I would very much like to be... However, if we're not, and someone has built out their whole entire workflow on ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. How portable do you think it would be if I was building my runbooks, assuming the worst you? Like, you disappear, the company disappears, the GitHub repo's gone... Like, I can't run it, I never got the self-hosted thing... Could I get them out relatively easily? It's gotta be close to text at the... |
**Jerod Santo:** There you go. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** ...and the format is quite verbose, but a bunch of scripts and you can pull it all out and it's fine. What you can also do is you can export Markdown. So it is -- we don't really like the fact that there's this YAML as our file format... So the end goal will be to use Markdown as the file format. Bu... |
**Jerod Santo:** For sure. |
**Ellie Huxtable:** So figuring out a very light extension we can do that lets us encode everything we need to encode, but also makes it so that you can still actually edit it in a text editor, and read it, and various other things. So that's not done yet, and that's something I want to do correctly, and would actually... |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. Yeah, I think that would definitely be a huge upgrade, the way to get that done. What else are you working on? What else is in the pipeline? |
**Ellie Huxtable:** Yeah, so coming really soon is a new runtime. The current runtime is very much like "Let's get something that works and see if people like this", and the new runtime is going to be let's make sure things are really, really robust, and flexible, and will allow you to run runbooks from the CLI... Whic... |
\[44:18\] Maybe you have a bunch of disaster response runbooks, and it's really important that they actually work, and you don't find out that they don't work at 3 a.m. when you need them... And if you get things set up right, maybe you could test that on a schedule in some automated system somewhere. I think it's also... |
**Jerod Santo:** Mm-hm. So when you say a new runtime, can you unpack that phrase for me, and tell me more about what that means? |
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