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**Jerod Santo:** Oh, you were going to say something else. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, I'll let you say whatever you wanna say, but that was my compliment. |
**Nathan Sobo:** I mean, I'm stoked to hear that you're having such a good experience. We're trying to make it good. We are all burning the candle at both ends, trying to deliver a really fabulous experience... And so it's great to hear that it's landing. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's clear you are. It's very clear you are. |
**Nathan Sobo:** \[01:08:01.05\] I mean, the streaming edits isn't even in the build you have. It'll be out, I'm pretty sure, by the time this airs. But that's even nicer, of just like watching stuff stream, having an experience that feels immediate and engaged... That's the key goal. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. One of the UX'es I really enjoy... I don't know if this is similar, but whenever you're working on a document with Claude, for example, like inside the actual Claude web app, or their Mac app, or whatever... You can see it create a separate -- so you have your chat kind of going on, and you ha... |
**Nathan Sobo:** Artifact. Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** This artifact. Sure. Artifact. I like that. |
**Nathan Sobo:** That's what they call it. \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And you can see it literally deleting lines, and adding lines back in. I like the process, because I can kind of see the process of the work. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Exactly. Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** All that to say -- that was my compliment. What I wanted to say was this - it was that now I'm thinking maybe it is maybe you're in the best position because you have the ultimate great foundation, the ultimate control of the underlying code editor for developers to collaborate on, because you have ... |
**Nathan Sobo:** Yeah. And again, it's like -- I don't know, if you would have told me that people were forking VS Code left and right because they were so excited to have direct control over an editor UI, and that some of these people were being purportedly valued at billions of dollars in valuation... Yeah. So basica... |
My goal has always been to kind of build the next generation in tech. Like, really advance the state of the art for the developer experience, period. Full stop. For me, for a long time, once I tried it, we created Electron, this Atom shell, and then we tried it, we gave it a good try... And yeah, could we have done it ... |
And so for me, I was never going to do it any other way. And so anybody else's success doesn't... It's not really relevant right now. Other than to the degree that it indicates that there's value where we're going, I guess. So it's never really -- it doesn't bother me, I guess. I don't feel behind or ahead. I feel righ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. How much are you thinking about brand new apps, brand new developers? A lot of these -- I'm thinking v0, Bolt, even Cursor... |
**Nathan Sobo:** Right. |
**Jerod Santo:** Like, "We're taking our projects, we're opening up Zed on an existing codebase", whether it's a Jekyll blog, or an Elixir app, or it's Zed itself... I'm sure you're pointing it at itself all the time. "And we're like editing, we're coding alongside this agent." But a lot of people aren't -- they don't ... |
**Nathan Sobo:** \[01:12:05.00\] I'm excited about them, because I think that's so many more software engineers being born than I could have ever imagined before... We might be for those people maybe at step two, if that makes sense. Like, when you're ready to go just a little bit deeper. We're not going to be like Vim... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. I'd rather not look at what you're doing here. |
**Nathan Sobo:** And if that is working for you, then go for it. But my sense is that -- and maybe the ceiling or whatever, the point at which this will be required will change over time as models get better, but... My sense, from my own experience - and people can share their own - is that at some point you need to un... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Nathan Sobo:** And I welcome new ones. |
**Jerod Santo:** So imagine a software engineer who's an intermediate - new to intermediate - and they launch Zed, and they think to themselves "I want a web app." I want to write a web app that takes in some input, and does some stuff. And so can I just launch Zed -- like, no open files. File, New -- I don't know. New... |
**Nathan Sobo:** That's a good question. |
**Jerod Santo:** ...open the agentic coder and say "Can you build me a Rails app"?, or whatever. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That would be cool. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Yeah, I think in the build that you have today, we sort of scope what the agent does in the folder you're in. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Nathan Sobo:** So I guess maybe that's a rough edge, so... But yeah, so create a folder, open it in Zed, and then yes. \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** And then yes. |
**Nathan Sobo:** And maybe we can smooth that out, to your point. |
**Jerod Santo:** How many tools do the agents have? Can they call command line tools for me? Can they call Rails New or something, and do all that kind of stuff? |
**Nathan Sobo:** Yeah. Yeah, we execute -- and we've experimented with a couple of different approaches, but what we've landed on now is we actually have the agent run in your shell. The assumption being that whatever shell you're using, you probably configure it with your Python virtual environment... I don't even pre... |
\[01:16:26.07\] So there's a couple different ways. The most universal way is just in Zed settings, you can configure a model context server, say where it's listening, and it'll work. For a curated set that we hope to grow, and the community can help us grow, there's also in the Zed extension store just a section for m... |
**Jerod Santo:** It's all kinds of stuff. |
**Nathan Sobo:** There's all kinds of stuff. There's a tool that will like puppeteer the web browser, called Puppeteer. That literally opens up a browser and lets the LLM navigate around. We're landing image support, so I can take screenshots and like... Yeah. |
So ultimately, this should feel like -- and we'll be getting there incrementally. I really want to embrace extensibility, and make Zed feel like this workbench for experimenting and playing with different models, different agents, different tools, and have them all coming together in this environment that feels really ... |
**Jerod Santo:** First class. |
**Nathan Sobo:** First class, yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I like what Jerod's original question was, which was like Rails New, and stuff like that... |
**Nathan Sobo:** Oh, yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Because that to me -- I mean, having been through this... It's not even out yet. You've given Jerod and I access for this conversation, a version of this agentic flow... Like, it would be so cool to do exactly that, and say "Okay, let's create a new Rails app today. Here are the things that I want",... |
And it does it. "How does this look? Do you want to make this a Git repo and start tracking it?" That kind of thing. That whole flow. I can see that happening there so easily... And back to that original thing I mentioned before, like an email workflow, where I would normally procrastinate over some things... I know Ra... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] |
**Nathan Sobo:** It's all hard. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It is. Well, you pick the person, there's various versions of this hard, but... You get over that initial hump so fast, because once you have -- they always say "It's all about momentum. If you want to go somewhere, you've got to generate the momentum to get there. You can't be stagnant..." So motio... |
**Jerod Santo:** That's right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Now we're vibe-coding. |
**Jerod Santo:** Now we're collaborating. |
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