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**Adam Stacoviak:** But I think in that case it's more -- would you call it... Is it still vibe-coding? |
**Jerod Santo:** \[01:19:45.17\] Well, vibe-coding literally is -- do I look at the code or not? I mean, I try to distill it down to what makes it different, and that really is the distinguishing factor, is I don't look at the code, then I'm vibe coding. But if I'm looking at the code -- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Let's call it collab-coding then. |
**Jerod Santo:** ...then I'm collab-coding. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right here today, collab-coding. |
**Nathan Sobo:** I mean, I do think there's -- I vibe-coded. I vibe-coded the dotted outline shader code. So we didn't have in GPUI a dotted outline, a dashed outline. In CSS it would just be like, whatever; border dashed. But with Zed, it's like a shader code that we're running. We didn't support that. So I threw our,... |
But -- |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. That kills the vibe, though. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Yeah, but in this particular domain, of writing signed distance field code, which - like, I wrote all the signed distance field code, the basic stuff... But this is a really hard one, to do dash outlines. Like, that would have taken me a week. And to get even 80%, and see "Does this look kind of good? ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Break**: \[01:21:55.27\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I'm also sitting here now in my settings.json file, which is the settings file for the... Well, it's actually the settings file for Zed. |
**Nathan Sobo:** All of Zed, yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** But I'm thinking "I can pass this file as context to it, and just make my settings better", right? |
**Nathan Sobo:** \[laughs\] I know. We need to integrate more of that -- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** "Help me explore how I can make settings more, or better." For example, I didn't have -- this is cool, man. This is so cool. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] What is? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I didn't have a mode set. I didn't have a light or dark theme. I didn't have that in the settings. And \[unintelligible 01:25:37.17\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, that was my feature request, remember that? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What's that? |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, that was my feature request from a couple years ago, that Nathan rolled out. Remember that? It was to have light and dark modes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yes. |
**Jerod Santo:** Keep going. Anyways, I'm just bragging that that got in there. \[laughter\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, what I did was I just asked it. I just passed the settings.json file as context to this freaking golden retriever... And I said "How do I dark-mode this thing? Because it's not dark mode." Boom. Now it's dark mode. My settings.json file is dark-moded, just like that. |
**Nathan Sobo:** And that should be baked into the product. I mean, you should be able to have a meta-level conversation with Zed about how it's configured. And it ain't there yet, but it's right there for the taking, for sure, you know? |
**Jerod Santo:** That brings me to Zed AI. Didn't you guys launch a model, or something? Or there was some sort of a... Yeah, tell me about it, because I didn't understand it totally. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Yeah. So I mean, Zed AI was last fall. And that was basically like "Okay, we're doing a bunch of stuff with AI." And the two features that launched then was this very sort of hacker-chic, write-optimized, kind of low-level, strap a text editor to an LLM and interact with it directly... Which - some eng... |
Then... I think it was February, we launched Edit Prediction. Edit Prediction, we built an open source model -- not really. We fine-tuned an existing open source model and kept it open source, and open sourced the dataset, to just predict what the next edit is. Which - that's a feature that's been out in Copilot for ye... |
\[01:27:55.12\] Because one of my problems with kind of that eager, predictive editing is when I'm in flow and it's suggesting something to me, it's sometimes annoying. It's just distracting me from my flow, depending on my mood. But often it's how I'm feeling. But often I do -- I might want it. So what we'll do in Sub... |
And then we always are in that mode when there's like a language server completion... Because Tab, in the old days, when you only had completions from the language server, it would be used to complete the LSP completion. And there's sort of things that -- I don't know, we're in this transitional period. Like, maybe the... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. |
**Nathan Sobo:** How do we multiplex these two things? And so our decision was, "When we're showing you language server completions, and there's one from the LLM, we'll show you both." But we'll only show you that completion for the LLM that exists. And then when you hold Alt, we hide the completions from the language ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Gotcha. Yeah, so the edit predictions feature - you actually lost me. I turned it off. Not necessarily because it was bad, but because like you said, it was just like too in my face, and there was times where I wasn't wanting it, I was just like pausing or something, or you know... And I was just like ... |
**Nathan Sobo:** Good. So we were able to kind of keep you in the game. And maybe you don't use them as much as some developers... |
**Jerod Santo:** Exactly. I kind of came back into the game, to a certain degree, you know... But yeah, exactly. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Right. But I do think, on all of this, there's -- we need to refine it. I want edit predictions to predict better edits, and be better. So we're collecting -- you can opt in to share your data if you're editing an open source project with data prediction. We won't take your data from that, because it's... |
\[01:31:47.27\] Also, just like... Yeah, I was so fired up about it I wanted to increase the scope for our launch, but Conrad Tucker reasoned them to me by basically pairing on it with me for long enough to say "Don't blow out scope." But just the study of taking a multi-buffer and transforming it. Batch transformation... |
**Jerod Santo:** Quality of life stuff... |
**Nathan Sobo:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** So previously, the business model was teams. Is it still teams? Is it agents? How are you shifting now? ...because the landscape has moved quite a bit since then. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Yeah, I mean, the mission of that is to build the future of software development, as I mentioned. And the premise is that if you really do actually do that, build the future of software development, you'll have an opportunity to, in a non-annoying or coercive way, sell developers services that integrat... |
One of the services we could sell developers is AI-related services, which is largely compute... But I think over time there'll be more indexing, more things we're doing on the backend... We're running the open source model for you, for edit predictions. That costs money to run. So I think, you know, sure. And we are a... |
But again, if you want to go bring your own API keys, or use some other thing, or literally take our code and fork it and do whatever you want, I'm not going to try to be sharp-elbowed about that, if that makes sense. I want you to have control over your stack, but I also want it to be convenient for you if you don't w... |
The goal is to not -- we're not trying to be cheaper or more expensive than anybody else. Just offer a reasonable service at a reasonable price. But is that the entire premise of all of Zed's business? No. The premise of Zed's business is still selling teams and individual services that integrate with their dev flow. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I was going to say, this is the first thing, I assume, you've been able to charge for. You're going to launch this; you're not going to make it free, right? People will pay for this. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Yeah. There's going to be a trial... But we're now at a point where - yeah, we're going to start charging a subscription for it. And again, it's an open source editor, so you have a lot of freedom... But I think it's cool to offer as service. This is the first kind of test of that. It's one test of tha... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, I'm excited that you get to make some money. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Me too. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I mean, do you want to make money? I feel like you really -- |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] Do you like to make money...? |
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