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**Jerod Santo:** It's literally just Shortcuts. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. And you can program it to run a shortcut when you -- |
**Jerod Santo:** So do you write that in Swift, or...? |
**Spencer Chang:** No, they have this no-code-esque builder thing for Shortcuts. |
**Jerod Santo:** Really? |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. I mean, now it's really annoying... \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Wow. So then how do you get it onto the chip? |
**Spencer Chang:** It's just like an address thing. It's like a URL style. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's like an app-specific URL. |
**Spencer Chang:** I'm not actually sure exactly how it works under the hood, but yes, I imagine it's something like that. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. And where do you acquire these chips from, that you put in the ceramic? It's like you buy them off Amazon kind of thing? |
**Spencer Chang:** No, I bought them just from some suppliers I found on Google... But yeah, I've started to source them directly from China now, just because I need very specialized -- |
**Jerod Santo:** And you might need a lot of them, as you start to sell more of these tokens. What about talking to the chip? Is it just like a USB cable that just connects into them, or a firmware thing, or...? |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah, it's just a phone thing. So you can -- there's a bunch of apps available. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, so from your phone you connect to it. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah, exactly. Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay. You can tell I've never done this, before I'm completely clueless. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. It's really magical, honestly. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** It's super-cool. So you call that Internet Sculptures? Is that the name of this -- or computing-infused objects? I'm reading some of the words off your website. |
**Spencer Chang:** Internet sculptures. Internetsculptures.com is the website for the shop. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. But Internet Sculptures, it sounds, is just a step along the road, perhaps? ...a move down the path, but you're going further now. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** To computing shrines, which is like - okay, similar, but different. Tell us about computing shrines. |
**Spencer Chang:** So Internet Sculptures is sort of the business or the shop container for all this stuff. |
**Jerod Santo:** The thing you're selling. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. I do these experiments, some of them feel cohesive enough, repeatable enough to be products, they go in the Internet Sculptures shop. It also serves as a vehicle to do collaborations with companies or organizations if they want custom ones... And yeah, the manifestation of all those things is i... |
\[32:09\] So one of them is like a -- it's like a phone booth made out of acrylic. You place your phone -- it's like a phone booth for your phone. So you place your phone inside the phone booth, and the website or the web experience is a voice sharing thing, where you hear just the last person's voice, and then once yo... |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh... |
**Spencer Chang:** ...and that replaces the message. So you know the only one person, sort of -- your message isn't there forever. It's just -- |
**Jerod Santo:** Right, it's only the next person in the chain. That's kind of cool... That reminds me of geocaching. Have you ever geocached? |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah, exactly. |
**Jerod Santo:** Because they have that concept of like leave a thing -- or take a thing and leave a thing, right? |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** This is cool, because it's that same concept, only there's only one thing. With the geocache, you might open it up and there might be a few trinkets in there, or whatever it is, or notes, or memories, pictures... And you take one with you and you leave your own. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** And then there's still be a few others in there. Or there might not be. But with this, there's just one message, you're going to listen to that message, you're going to leave one message... And then only one other human in history is going to listen to that one. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** I love it. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. I'm really inspired by geocaching, and all of the -- just very, I would say folk practices of leaving traces of oneself in public places... Like, I even think about people who will write in chalk, or scribble something in the sand... Like, write in chalk on stone, or whatever. There's all these... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, I have seen that. When you come across one, you're like "Wow. Somebody spent three hours", or however long it was. |
**Spencer Chang:** Right, right. And sometimes you can tell that multiple people have added to it, just by the arrangement of it. I like that there's this sense of how many people have been here... |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, that's interesting. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. So all of these are sort of inspired by those practices, but using a digital form, so that it can -- yeah, I'm interested in what other interactive experiences you can do, that amplify those practices. And there's environmental concerns of some of these practices, tagging rocks especially... So... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. Well, as we began talking about this, my mind immediately went to graffiti, which - I have two minds about graffiti. Sometimes it's beautiful art, and other times you're like "This is just desecration, this is vandalism." And it's so permanent. Of course, you can paint over it, but not without ma... |
So I like this idea of ripples in water... They have this ripple effect, but eventually it goes back to calm. And that's kind of what you're doing with that particular photo booth experience. I think that's a super-cool idea. What are some of your other sculptures you've built, or are thinking about building? |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. So there's one that's -- so the phone booth is shrine to voice, and there's another one that's shrine to earth, and it's inspired by the rock stacking practice specifically. So I transformed this large boulder, and embedded it with some chips, and the experience is effectively like a rock stack... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[35:55\] \[laughs\] I can tell you've put some work into that one... That was very important to you. |
**Spencer Chang:** \[laughs\] \[unintelligible 00:35:59.02\] I wanted it to be like -- if I could tweak the model, I wanted it to be like if someone uploaded Dwayne Johnson, the Rock, I wanted it to accept that. |
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