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**Jerod Santo:** One exception. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. But I'm not that \[unintelligible 00:36:18.11\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, but now, is it set in stone, or can you actually -- can you still access the software side? |
**Spencer Chang:** I can still access the software. |
**Jerod Santo:** Can you upgrade that sucker? Somebody is going to -- you made my day, but that's going to make somebody's week. If it rejects other humans, but it accepts Dwayne Johnson... I mean, that's the kind of stuff that goes viral. |
**Spencer Chang:** I know... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] I'm just here to encourage you to go ahead and work on that. That's all I'm gonna say. |
**Spencer Chang:** On the next version. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah, so it verifies it's a rock, it removes the background, and then you're able to add your rock to the pile. |
**Jerod Santo:** So are these sculptures then -- is the selling of the objects funding this stuff that you want to do? Or is this also commissioned for other -- because these are living in public spaces, right? |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. I mean, I'm working on a public art version of it, to be installed in a park. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, that'd be awesome. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. Which would be really awesome. Yeah, I don't know exactly how the funding is going to work, to be honest. I received a grant from San Francisco to try to do this in a park... We'll see, based on permitting and stuff, how that turns out. But yeah, it's tricky for this stuff, especially public ar... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. It's not exactly a line item on the budget when there's so many other things that they're already paying for. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. Which is interesting. It's like, that's the kind of thing I want to do, because I've worked on open source on a lot of my projects as well too, and I think a lot of my philosophy is around technology as a sort of public good... And so this is an interesting parallel to that in a very physical u... |
**Break**: \[38:47\] |
**Jerod Santo:** One of the things you say on your website is that you try to create perpetual energy. Now, I grew up in a world where there was no such thing, so I assume this is aspirational... But I'm curious your thoughts behind that statement. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. It's funny, because we know this thing is not real... But I feel like the aspiring towards it allows us to feel that it's present in various points, or various situations. I think I feel that perpetual energy in some of these folk practices that we've talked about, like the rock stacking, or se... |
I think it's the same if we look at the software side, things like open source, or this public good style technology... And in that case, there's more of an infinite possibility, because software is free, and can be infinitely replicated... But I think you just see all these projects building off of one another. |
I think the thing that I strive for most in the things I make is that people can surprise me with what they do with it. And that also feels like this sort of infinite cycle, or perpetual cycle that gets produced. You just come up with one idea, or a project, and it inspires or enables all these other versions of it. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. Yeah, it's perpetual not through exerting of energy, but through inspiring to exert energy. What's that old saying? "Creation is one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration." And when it comes to the perspiring, there's no perpetual for that. That's just good old fashioned motivation, pl... |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** So that's cool. If you do stumble across that one, let me know, because I'm sure we could put it to good use. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. \[laughs\] |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] You could probably fund all your art installations. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah, that might be my business. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. "This is my sustainability model, is a perpetual energy machine." |
**Spencer Chang:** I'll pitch that to some investors. |
**Jerod Santo:** So much cool stuff, Spencer... What else are you working on? What else are you thinking about? What else haven't we talked about? Because you have a whole -- I just encourage people... Of course, check out Alive Internet Theory, but spencer.place - he's got a bunch of stuff on his website that I'm sure... |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. One of the projects that I'm really excited about is more on the software side. It's called playhtml. So it's this open source library I made to make making collaborative web elements really easy; as easy as creating a single player web element. So how it works is you can just add a single attr... |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, I did that for everybody that was on your website? |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah. And it persists. So it's like mapping that to a more permanent thing. |
**Jerod Santo:** I see. |
**Spencer Chang:** And so yeah, I just felt like this paradox of so many millions of people are using modern social media platforms at any given moment, but the actual experience of using the site is very solitary. You have a personal feed, no one else is seeing the same thing that you are in that given moment. There's... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[48:27\] There's certainly been a lot of interesting gaming, and maybe even just toy experiences online the last 5 or 10 years that have been driven by a similar component, where it's like we're all experiencing the same thing at the same time. I can't remember who it is, whether it's Neil.fun, or the... |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah... Nolan? |
**Jerod Santo:** Yes. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah, yeah, yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** Where it's only fun because there's 7,500 people there, and they're all screwing around on it... And if you were here alone, you'd be like "30 seconds and I'm out." But the fact that there's so many people, and everything I do affects everybody else does bring a new... I don't know what it is, a new ex... |
**Spencer Chang:** Totally. |
**Jerod Santo:** So this is an open source project for other people to build stuff like that. It's not just driving your works, but you're trying to get this to be a thing. |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah, exactly. And it's also I guess an implementation of this philosophy of public good technology. It's an open source library, and I also run the the infrastructure that powers it, basically as a service... For a free service, basically, for anybody who uses it. |
**Jerod Santo:** So is there a key-value store in the background, or...? |
**Spencer Chang:** It's basically -- yeah, there's a standard sort of database store behind it, and I run the real time streaming infrastructure. |
**Jerod Santo:** So you have a server behind this, as well as a data store that you're basically just donating -- so if I'm using playhtml, the open source project, I can basically just piggyback on top of your infrastructure, or I've got to run my own? |
**Spencer Chang:** Yeah, you can basically piggyback off of mine. \[laughter\] |
**Jerod Santo:** Shh, don't tell anybody... |
**Spencer Chang:** \[laughs\] I have audits and I have some checks in place for abuse, but... And it's set up for -- if you're doing tons of data or something, you can run your own infrastructure. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. Which would be the kind thing to do, versus... |
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