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**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Can you tell our listeners more about that? |
**Danielle Rath:** I would love to. This is called "The five levels of fatigue", and it's a pyramid with level zero at the bottom of the pyramid, and level five at the tippy-tippy-top. The reason I made it a pyramid is because if you think about the X axis, that is your productivity. So the base of the pyramid is very ... |
\[56:29\] So with each level of fatigue there's different symptoms you might feel. For example, fatigue level one is commonly associated with dehydration and drowsiness. So if you're doing something that's boring and repetitive, or if you're doing something that you haven't had enough water recently, you can feel tired... |
At fatigue level two you're feeling more tired, and you might need some caffeine, but not a lot of it. You feel a little distracted, you feel a little lethargic, so you just need a little bit of caffeine, or you need someone to make you laugh. You might need something to boost that dopamine in other ways than caffeine. |
The next level up from that is when you're really stressed out and struggling. That's fatigue level three. So you need more caffeine at this point, and I've got different recommendations in the book... But at fatigue level three, because that level is also associated with stress, there's other things you can do to redu... |
Level four is when you're exhausted. At this point, you have the strongest amount of caffeine that you can, you have 400 milligrams, which is all you're allowed to have in a day, and you need to start easing up, you need to start delegating. You need to start admitting that you're in an energy emergency, and you won't ... |
And fatigue level five of five is zombieville. There is no amount of caffeine that will help you at fatigue level five, so you just need z's, you just need sleep. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** You just need to go to sleep, right? |
**Danielle Rath:** Yes. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** So this is helpful in terms of recognizing -- because I don't know how many people do a sort of assessment or self-reflection around how they're feeling, unless they're focused on it. We talked about -- you know, we feed whatever we focus on... And then I think -- even in changing habits, reco... |
**Danielle Rath:** Absolutely. You said it perfectly, because like you said, you feed what you focus on, and mindfulness is such a huge point of this. Even if you did nothing else other than taking a second to assess how tired you are, that awareness has huge payoffs. So even if nothing else comes from it, if you don't... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** \[01:00:19.26\] Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** If you were on a bridge, and you can only go two directions, you can't go four directions. So this is keying off your mindfulness - you can't go certain directions, so knowing where you're at in terms of this pyramid, for example... Knowing where you're at, this mindfulness, is gonna give you an ind... |
**Danielle Rath:** Yes, absolutely. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And so often do we just not be grounded and think "Okay, where am I at? What am I feeling? Why am I feeling this way? How do I get to where I'm trying to actually go, versus just keep running that durable wheel thing?" You just never to where you're trying to go because all directions are no directi... |
**Danielle Rath:** Work smarter, not harder. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Right?! I love this. We posed this question to our community over in Slack about how they've used caffeine, and I loved it because somebody said "I used to use coffee for its utility, i.e. focus and keeping me awake, but then I ended up having to quit it cold turkey for a year." And they said ... |
**Danielle Rath:** \[laughs\] Yes, if you can, then sleep is a great alternative to more caffeine. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** I think we all have different indicator lights, but recognizing what these are when they emerge, so that you can learn to do differently... Because it's sort of like "I need to actually be more thoughtful", instead of that habit loop (I say \[unintelligible 01:01:52.03\]) there needs to be tha... |
So for the consumer who goes "Well, I really just enjoy coffee" or "I enjoy my energy drinks", how do I have it while managing the caffeine intake associated with it? Do I mix it up, because I just like the taste or the flavor or the contents, or do I just exercise self-restraint? |
**Danielle Rath:** Well, what I like to do is I mix it up all the time, but then I also take multiple days to finish an energy drink. So if I like the taste, but I don't need the whole container's worth of caffeine, then I'll have a few sips, I'll get my dopamine boost, I'll get my reward triggered, and then I'll put t... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Awesome. |
**Danielle Rath:** So that's a good way to get some of the benefits, the mental benefits, without having too much caffeine. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Moderation. |
**Danielle Rath:** Moderation, and also being strategic. If I'm this tired, I know I need this drink; if I'm this tired, I know I need a weaker drink. It's a proportionate response. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** But I think there can also be a lot of play involved in that, and fun, to be like "Hm, let me go and be my own scientist and figure out what works" using these sort of levels, and go "Did I like that? Would I try again?" |
Part of how you've done some of the research is not only the science behind it, but you've tried these, haven't you? Many of the energy drinks. |
**Danielle Rath:** Oh, yes. Yeah, I've researched the labels, but then I also tried them myself. Then I do some diligence in terms of the companies. If it's somebody that just mails me an energy drink, I'm very cautious about "Okay, who's making this? How much can I trust them based on their website or the quality of t... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** \[01:03:59.27\] So can we shift gears and do a little quiz, true or false, fact or fiction? What do you think? |
**Danielle Rath:** Yes, I would love that. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Okay. So we've sort of talked about these, but I just think it would be a fun little blast... And feel free to pull in research or tell us how we can better understand these. So true or false - caffeine is not safe. |
**Danielle Rath:** False. It's not safe if you have more than 400 milligrams in a day. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Awesome. And then is there also a little caveat relative to if people have heart conditions? |
**Danielle Rath:** Yes. If you are sensitive to caffeine, whether or not you're pregnant, whether or not you're a child or an adolescent, whether or not you've got heart issues, you want to be your own scientist. You want to be very careful about how much caffeine you have. But for the average population, caffeine is s... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Okay. True or false - caffeine is addicting. |
**Danielle Rath:** I'm gonna say -- oh gosh, this is a hard one... I'm gonna say true because of its addiction in different ways. Not the neurochemical ways, but addicting in that it's like comfort food. You become attached to it the same way as -- I'm addicted to a certain song during stressful days. It's addicting in... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Okay, so true or false - consuming caffeine can cause heart problems. |
**Danielle Rath:** False. Did you know that 300 milligrams or less can actually reduce your risk of heart arrhythmia? |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** No. So arrhythmia is disregulation in the heartbeat, right? |
**Danielle Rath:** Yes. And actually, caffeine can help your heart, as long as you stay under 300 milligrams. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** So what about those wonky stories, or sort of newscasts we hear about this person -- like you mentioned earlier, they ended up in the hospital, or had a heart attack because of an energy drink they consumed. |
**Danielle Rath:** Every story that I've ever read, every story that's ever been mailed to me about someone being hospitalized or dying because of caffeine - they had way more caffeine than they were supposed to... Not just more than this 400 milligrams, we're talking like 25 Red Bulls in a day. Yes, the last one - the... |
But yes, people that have hospitalizations or die from caffeine - I think there may be one or two that has a genetic predisposition, but everyone that I have seen personally, and everyone that I've ever researched and followed up on has had way more caffeine than you're supposed to have in a day. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Yeah, so I always think about this, and I don't know unless you studied it - recognizing the difference between causing something or something is correlated. |
**Danielle Rath:** Yes, I'm so glad you mentioned that. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Because that's what people think. "Well, the energy drinks are to blame. They caused it." And it's like, it's never that simple. |
**Danielle Rath:** Exactly, exactly. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** So it's not a direct causation, but it doesn't mean if you're outside the normal limits, or there's these other predispositions because of your genetics that it can't create a really poor storm and outcome. |
**Danielle Rath:** Yes, exactly. And the best example of that is caffeine and alcohol. I'm sorry, was that one of your next questions? \[laughs\] |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** No, I was gonna say -- yes, right, but keep going. |
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