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• The importance of mental preparation for change and turbulence |
• Revisiting personal associations with threats or vulnerabilities that may be driving disproportionate reactions |
• Responding to surprises and uncertainty |
• Impact of feeling supported by others on navigating uncertainty |
• Personal reactions to panic-inducing situations (e.g. being in crowded cities) |
• Strategies for managing panic, including seeking advice from trusted sources |
• Importance of having resources and skills to navigate uncertain situations |
• Need to buffer against unknowns with support from others and within oneself |
**Adam Stacoviak:** The plan wasn't exactly to talk about this global pandemic happening, Coronavirus, and the main headline that's pretty much on everything right now... We kind of have to at least touch on it, because it colors everything I'm thinking about today. |
Change is happening, and it's just really interesting and surreal to see shows like the Walking dead -- and we may not actually have walkers out there kind of thing happening, but we have in many ways our entertainment becoming reality for us. We have movies like Contagion from several years ago, or different things...... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** For sure. It's interesting, because we are apt to use what we do know, to understand what we don't know... And it's so easy to make inferences about anything, really, when you don't have a file for it. I find this especially interesting given our conversation around choices more recently. ... |
I feel like, to some degree, it's living like Garmin, when I'm trying to go somewhere, and it's like "Recalculating... Recalculating... Recalculating..." every time I'm trying to follow on a plan... So that's what I think is really important as we talk about this, is recognizing the value of being adaptable. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I couldn't agree more. Being adaptable, being agile, being flexible... These are all synonyms of the same. But when you hear from well-known venture capitalists - which may not be the best advice for the whole world, it just sort of resonated with me; there was this memo shared by Sequoia Capital, w... |
Their essential message boils down to "Brace for turbulence." And to me, brace for turbulence doesn't mean panic; it means prepare for change, and potentially (italicize potentially) discomfort as a result of that change, and to be adaptable. You've said it time and time again, this word "resilience". What does that me... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[04:13\] Well, resilience doesn't look like "I know everything that's coming my way, and that I can then prepare in advance, so that I know where to go, what to do, or what resources to use", but rather this sense of "I believe that I can handle things when they're not known, and look to ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh my gosh, yes... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[laughs\] Yeah, but we have to practice a way of getting back up and bouncing back. It doesn't mean there aren't going to be changes, or that we even are going to experience fear... But I think we talked about this, and the way in which we process information differently when we're reacti... |
Like you mentioned with these movies, our brain doesn't know the difference, whether we sort of imagine it, like I'm visualizing it, or I'm living it live. It still has to run that same neural network... So to be considerate of the way in which maybe you are someone you know is apt to react in this threat, and then you... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Maybe an image for our listeners would be like the picture-in-picture. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh yeah, that's interesting. I've never thought about that. PIP, picture-in-picture. That little button you have on your remote. If you still have a remote... Maybe you don't, because you've moved on to an iPhone-based remote, and now it's just an app away, instead of a remote away. Yeah, picture-in... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right, because it allows you to hold both simultaneously. I'm not saying "Don't be considerate." That's sort of foolish, wouldn't you say? ...to be like "Oh, I'm not gonna get sick" or "Oh, I'm impenetrable. That won't affect me." That's not really helpful. But rather, recognizing that the... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Call me crazy, but I... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Crazy. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, call me crazy, because I've really considered watching Contagion as a way to understand how to deal with what might happen, because... I don't know. Like you said, we don't have a file for it. I don't have a file for how to react to a global pandemic. And I don't wanna say "Hey, everybody pani... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** But it's hard to navigate the unseeable and the unknown. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So do you wanna only focus on the unknown, or are there other things you could also lend your attention to that might mitigate or buffer the unknown? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Such as...? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** The sunrises and sets... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. Air in my lungs, my family is safe - for now... What else? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[08:08\] I really wanna practice this notion of presence. Not like p-r-e-s-e-n-t-s, but p-r-e-s-e-n-c-e... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Spelling on a podcast is difficult. \[laughter\] You have to laugh at yourself there, right? Like, it's... Yeah, whatever. It's fun. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right? ...that I'm practicing this way of being mindful. So I'm living live and going "What other things --" What a lot of people don't actually realize, for example in panic attacks, is that they are reacting to a perceived threat, and that what happens is then they hold their breath out ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** So to some degree, going "How do I practice breath? How do I practice breathing through this unknown?" You know, the sun hasn't changed - even though we've just had daylight savings - it is still gonna rise and set. So there is a rhythm. And that's really looking at "How do I manage...?" I... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. "Are they panicking? I'll panic because they're panicking." |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Did they go and buy a bunch of bleach? Should I go buy a bunch of bleach? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You know, these things you're probably going to buy that you probably didn't typically buy, because you have fear of the future... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What's interesting about the breath though, Mireille, is that this morning at 7:30 -- my watch never dings at 7:30 in the morning to tell me to breathe, but it said "Adam, one minute of breathing to change your day." I don't know if it was ironic or not, but it was like, "One minute of breathing." |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** That's awesome. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Which is so right, because I have to remind myself -- and actually, doing this show with you, this has opened my eyes to how important these little, tiny things are... And when I am in a panic mode or catastrophizing, which I have learned that I actually do more often than I thought I did, so... Yea... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Your brain needs oxygen to be rational. So if you don't breathe, then you will no be rational, like you want to be in this choice. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah, so being a woman and a mom who has given birth, I have the template of birth, and practicing breathing. It's interesting going through the process, because providers and prenatal care involves like "What's your birth plan? What ideally, if you could have it your way, would you want y... |
\[12:20\] Even in exercise, we're taught to breathe, and that we want to be mindful of how we can practice breathing through the fear. I think I've mentioned this before, my experience with virtual reality, and going -- the sensory information I was taking in visually, my visual system was telling me that there is an a... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right, "That's not real..." |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** "...you can actually touch the ground beside the wooden plank that your eyes are telling you is real", and then I could proceed. But unless or until I brought in, again, that other broader picture, my body -- it's not a surprise that my body reacts to the threat, to go like "Hey, this is d... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I had an experience with virtual reality recently... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** You did? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, and I was next to my aunt, who reacted very differently than I did, let's just say... She was a lot of fun. She was screaming, and was yelling... Because we were at the Space Center down in Houston, so our VR experience was basically being an astronaut... |
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