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**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Oh, wow...! |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...at the ISS, and you could see the Earth below you, and there was just space. So that's completely unnatural... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And so because of having these conversations with you and your experience with VR and reminding me through your experience that it's not real... So I had that sort of person on my shoulder, so to speak, saying "Adam..." If it was me, or you -- I don't know who, but somebody was saying "Adam, this is... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** But it's so funny how what you see and how your brain can play tricks on you, that you can believe that it's real... And her reaction was -- like, everyone around was laughing. It was just hilarious that she was screaming that loudly about this VR experience. It was so funny. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Let me give you a hypothetical then. So what if in that experience I took away the context of it being VR, or having any ability to see why or what your aunt was screaming about... Would you be apt to potentially panic or scream? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, yeah. If I didn't think it was just entertainment and I thought it was legit... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** No, you're blind. You have no idea why she's screaming, and she's screaming in that way... Would it evoke a response within you? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, it did. It still did. Even though I knew, it still did. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yes. So here is that social part. Here's somebody who you're connected with, who's freaking out, and if you didn't know that she was watching a VR experience, you might be apt to panic just like she did. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Social pressures. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[15:47\] Yeah, we're social. So looking at who you're spending time with and what you're listening to... And everyone is so different. Because look - I know people close to me who've had... You know, doctors will tell them in certain medical things, like "Well, the chances are like 0.1%" ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** But here's where all these contextual factors are significant. For example, you just had a baby, right? So your attention or awareness around the possibility of threat, physically, is likely higher, because you have a very vulnerable little person that you're trying to care for, who doesn'... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's right. So my perspective is different because of my responsibilities. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So if you have somebody who is single, or doesn't have kids, or only has themselves to concern themselves about, and they understand their limitations and their vulnerability level, then their response to a scenario like this will 100% be different... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Of course. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...because their vulnerability level is -- they're less vulnerable than maybe me and my family might be. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So wouldn't that imply different decisions for them than for you? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** A hundred percent, yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So having that sense of respect around other people, and then maybe actually changing it in this example, to say a single individual who doesn't have the same connections or susceptible populations, that they actually would maybe add that to their mental filter to go "Well, maybe th... |
We know there are certain environments that tend to be more impacted, dare I say, by germs. And they tend to be public, where a lot of people are. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Grocery carts. Gas station pumps. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** These places where everybody touches it, and... Yeah, it's really interesting, honestly... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** What if I posed a question to you, to sort of help you and our listeners and all of us look at this through a different framework... And that is "Would your decision to do X, Y or Z be different if it were you?" If it was you that had a compromised immune system, would you make a different... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, do you mean like to be in public, or... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Whatever it might be. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** We hear this word "social distancing", it's the phrase being tossed around now, and as we were talking about, we're social species, so it's natural for us to be social... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. Yeah, exactly. So recognizing -- like, what if I myself was the contaminant, or the contaminated, the easily impacted one? Would that change my choices? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I would hope so, especially if you are aware of it, which is sort of half the battle... You can be that and not be aware because of testing, and things like that, in this very specific scenario... So yeah, if I was tested and I knew, it would definitely change my choices. Personally, that would tota... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** So recognizing that while it might not be a big deal for you/to you because it's not you, if you were them, then it would. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[20:04\] Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** I just think about all these different conversations that we've had, and again, we're not trying to necessarily give people all the answers, because of course we don't have them, but rather I want people to be able to think... To think differently and to look at things from alternative per... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What I've been asking myself more recently was "How can I be more empathetic in this position? How can I have more compassion in this scenario?" |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's the question I've been asking myself... And then that gives me a chance to evaluate and examine the data around me, have that panoramic view (like we've talked about) and say "Okay, where is my position of empathy?" |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** I love that. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** "How can I do my best to be in their position, to understand their scenario?" All the ways that empathy is made and occurs, I try my best to do that. And it's not always 100%, because I don't think you can have 100% empathy. You try your best to have as much as you possibly can, and then be compassi... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure. Yeah, exactly... Because see how it changes the filter for you, to then broaden the perspective? Because we are all apt to make different decisions if we only have a sliver of the information. I'm gonna have trouble identifying things if I was only given -- think like Wheel of Fortun... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, genius! |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[laughs\] Here's one letter, and that's all you've got... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Lucky guess or a genius. One of the two. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[laughs\] Yeah. So I think this gets at a sense of "How can we have empathy and respect for other people in a way in which we never had?" Because maybe I didn't need to. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, I guess so. I mean, in a world where China - from Houston, Texas - seems so far away, it's very difficult to empathize, because "Oh, that's so far away." Not that I don't care, but it's not me, it's not in my purview right this moment, so it's not a reaction I need to do right now... Just hypo... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Huge. |
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