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**Adam Stacoviak:** ...two million or more people. It's never been canceled, ever, in its entire history... And if you know Texas, it's all about rodeo, it's all about agriculture, and farming, and cattle... It's the thing here. So for the rodeo to be canceled, it's such a big deal. It's almost like an eye-opener, like... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And the people in China are now so much more closer to me, and I'm now able to have so much more realization of my need for empathy and compassion because the world is just that small now. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And we now see how fast something can change. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. So with that, in this conversation, talk about -- of course there has to be future implications of this... Because now we do know how interconnected we literally are, that maybe it then changes. And this is what we're getting at, of all of these unknowns. It's like, "Well, what does ... |
\[24:13\] I can talk about -- I got notification, which has been interesting in watching the trends within the field of psychology and providing psychological services, because we have limitations in terms of state standards... There isn't any agreement; while there's similarities, I can't go into another state and sta... |
So we got notification that there are certain insurers who created different codes that we can bill for, that allow us to provide therapy via technology, and then associated HIPAA-compliant practice opportunities, technologies that we can use in order to do that... Which has been very sort of a... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** A hard no. \[laughs\] |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah, it's been controversial-- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** To put it lightly, a hard no. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah, because like we've talked about, this sense of humanness, in that it's very different to provide therapy when I only have either written words; I don't have voice inflections, and especially I don't have a face. There is so much data that I lose without body language. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, body language is huge... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Because I can notice congruencies or incongruencies with what people are saying... And it's just different. When I wanna have a hard conversation with someone, typically I wanna have it face to face. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yes, absolutely. It's not like "We've got a really hard thing to talk about. Let's do Skype." It just doesn't happen. I mean, maybe if you physically can't meet... But if you can physically meet, in a hard situation you wanna meet face to face. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And not for the physical confrontation, but just because we're social, we intermingle, we are bound by relationship. It's part of our humanity. We all struggle, as we said in the first episode of this podcast, and the other thing is we're designed for relationship. It's natural to want to meet face ... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So in some ways, technology has constraints, because it can't substitute for human touch. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** But when or where can it actually be incredibly functional, helpful and supportive - like now. So many universities within the U.S. have gone to either closed campuses, or the online format, like "All classes will be in this format for X period of time." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's by force though. This isn't nomination; this isn't "Oh, I'm volunteering to do remote." This is by force. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There is really, in many cases, no other choice, unless you wanna be a threat to your peers, your neighbors, your literal neighbors, your city neighbors, your state neighbors, whatever it might be. It's by force. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So in some cases, when things happen by force, there isn't a lot of knowledge around doing it, so you're sort of winging it, in a lot of cases. There's a lot of people right now winging working from not their normal work environment... Which could be at home, it could be a coffee shop... Probably no... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[28:03\] Right. What's interesting - in my email this morning ironically I got a notification from Starbucks, because... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** They're closed. \[laughter\] |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** No... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Half-price lattes? What was it? \[unintelligible 00:28:16.03\] What is it? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[laughs\] That they are taking from their experience internationally, and what they can offer here within the States -- I mean, to go "We're being considerate of the cleanliness of our stores and operations, and we're continuing to operate as normal. However, we will hold the right to go ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. I like that analogy, because I never really considered the better of the bad. It's always like "Oh, it's all bad!" How do you choose the better of the bad? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, it's sort of like, I have multiple options, and they all to some degree suck. It's not what I want. However, looking at the ways in which we've adapter over the years, going back to where we started, we change; we know that years ago all of our exposure to technology is changing our ... |
Once upon a time, Adam, I believe you probably remembered a lot more phone numbers than if I were to ask you today the phone numbers you could actually recall by memory. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, there's a small handful. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Probably like literally one handful, I could probably recall. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So I always have to remember that I don't have access to certain clinical data if our phone system goes down, because our phone system is connected to cable, which is internet. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. The cloud... Yeah, it's almost like our technology is a trap. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah, it's a constraint. And that isn't one that I can sort of usurp or go around. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. In this world, though, of going remote, we have a lot of unknowns happening there, and all I can say is that it's great, because I'm an advocate for remote work... But not all jobs can be done remotely. I'd mentioned Houston, obviously we are in the oil and gas, or the energy corridor, which t... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah, do you wanna try farming? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[laughs\] |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right...? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, I mean -- I guess the point is that there's just so much change happening, and this idea of being adaptable to this change; I'm not sure that plan or prepare well enough for a dramatic 180 change of a lot of things. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** No, but I will guarantee you this - you won't find a way that will work unless you're looking for some way. So this is like "Can we be creative?" Like we've talked about, how do we practice living like water? Water will indefinitely find some cracks, some access points, some way to make a ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's true. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[31:56\] It's this sense of pliability and flexibility. It doesn't mean it's preferred, like "Mm, this is good." But we have that ability to change. But like we've said, it's gonna fare better if we participate in our choice in the changes. You could say "I don't really wanna work remotel... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, no... No experience with that at all. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Which is also important to mention, too... You're in the Seattle area. |
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