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So it's very much in sports, athletic performance, of like I'm using these data waves, these brain waves that are not asleep, but not super high awake waves, and that's why it's very different as a construct and an experience... Because you're just kicking on all cylinders, except not at that high rate. Does that make ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Kind of. When you said theta waves, is that like a sound wave, or is that a brain wave? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** It's brain waves. So there's brain waves. So there's alpha, theta, beta waves for our brain. Theta waves are just the one that comes up to being more in the forefront when people are in this state of flow. If you can think of it, it's just like a gear; I get in that gear. So we can train o... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** The science behind it, yeah... Apply it. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. And so figuring out when you're in that place... Do you even know, Adam, times at which you felt at your peak performance, where imagine everything else fades into the background for your awareness, and you're just honed in on a project? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yes. Yeah, I am very aware of that. And I'm even more aware when I don't achieve it, which is terrible... But I think what I try to do is I try to optimize my life for serving up that opportunity. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So determining what it is that allows me to have a distraction-free scenario for a sustained amount of time, in order to hit these peak performance flow states. Most of what I do -- I think pretty much anybody who desires to be productive is like "How can I optimize for those environments?" And when... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[32:06\] Yeah. So am I correct if what you're saying is you are aware that there's certain elements that you utilize in order to impose constraints around you and the time you spend in the type of work that you're doing? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You are correct. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. And so there's deliberate efforts. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yes. Thoughtfulness. Purposeful. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. I once upon a time had a boss who used to tape a sign to his door that said "In Barbados." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[laughs\] That's awesome. Yes... I'm gonna get that for my door. Or I'll go to Jamaica instead... But Barbados - sure. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** But that was an indicator - unless the office was burning down... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Don't talk to me. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. You don't interrupt me. I need to get this thing done. So I need to have all of my attention focused on this one thing, so that I can do my best, or feel like I've accomplished the task before me. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, let me just say that the sign is one layer of protection for this... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...you know, to use this example, your boss, or your previous boss, or whatever the scenario was... But you still have yourself. Oh my gosh, put your phone away... This is me talking to me, not me talking to you, audience... But I am my worst final barrier to the state of flow, because I have to hav... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure, sure. So that's just it - when we're talking about attention, there's external intrusions... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** The phone ringing, other people interrupting us... But there's also internal distractions, that are sort of like "Oh yeah, what was that? Shoot, I needed to make sure I get the laundry done... What was the grocery list, before I do that? Oh, and what else do we have this weekend?" The lita... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** The internal chatter of life... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. And then we now have this phone that's such an easy distraction. I forget where I was reading this, but somebody said the average person - and I don't know what constitutes person or how that's defined - 2,617 is how often a person picks up a phone within a day. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, yeah... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. I so bad wanna go on a phone fast... A 30-day -- I don't know if I could do it, or how would I change because of it... But I see people out there saying "I did a 30-day fast from my smartphone, or from X social media account" or whatever it is. I wanna see how that works, because -- the phone ... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There's so many things about it that are positives, because -- indicators, feedback, getting a text from my wife saying "The house is on fire" or "Quick, come here. I need you, because we have a newborn." I need to still have that kind of attachment to the external world. So the phone is both helpfu... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** So part of it is knowing yourself and what you're most prone to do. I think about it -- I write a lot of reports, and sometimes... Well, I just have a lot of writing to do... Always. \[laughs\] So I'm always tempted, like, that's my time to shop online. So I will actually disconnect the Wi... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, wow. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[36:08\] So I impose other constraints in order to be able to do it. Also, other things that I do - tethering this in distraction plus flow, I will play certain music as based on whatever activity I'm trying to cultivate, or get done. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. Yeah, I actually play some -- that's why I asked you if it was audio waves earlier, because I listen to some theta waves stuff when I'm working. They call it white noise, pink noise... There's different types of noise, but essentially it's -- in some cases, like in banks, for example, they wi... |
The same, it might influence a state of flow or a state of internal hum. I don't know the science behind it, but all I know is there are theta waves, there are these kinds of waves, and stuff like that, and there's different hertz that the sound may be in, and it may attract... What do you know about those things? Is t... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** What, for the different hertz? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, just that auditory thing. I like your aspect of the intentionality of disconnecting the Wi-Fi. The same is me turning on a certain soundtrack |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah, part of it is -- what I'm trying to do with attention is sort of impose other constraints. I mean, very much like all the different dishes we can use for cooking, and going "What is the form that I want whatever dish to have when it's done? Do I want muffins? Do I want bread? Do I wa... |
So you have the bonus, you don't have to leave your home, but then how does your brain calibrate around "No, this is where I'm working." I think that's why it's so important that people, when they work remotely, do have a designated workspace, because it cues your brain -- remember, we talked about habits... Our enviro... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's right, yeah. If you're in your office or in a particular place where you do the work, that's where the work gets done. And I try - that's what I do in my own home, is that I have a designated space where I do work, and so when I'm there... Anybody, even my kids, they know - when dad's in ther... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. Like, what if we did a poll? Because think about this relative to whether or not couples have TVs in their bedrooms... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Well, many functional medicine doctors that I follow will say "Do not put a TV in your bedroom." Guess where we have a TV. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[40:06\] \[laughs\] Right. But it's going "Do I need those constraints, or am I able to manage it?" What's hard for me isn't necessarily hard for someone else, which may be semi-hard for another person. It really just comes back to building skills alongside this awareness. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** And I think for people to recognize, just like we actually will cast a body part for a period of time, it creates less mobility, so that healing can take place. That's the same thing we can do when we're trying to change ourselves; it's going "Is there a way in which I can impose further c... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** But what about distractions as being good? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Hm... When has a distraction been good for me? Well, I suppose I don't like to do -- not so much give blood, but what is it whenever you go and you get lab work done? I guess it's give blood, but it's not give blood for the sake of -- |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, no, it's lab work. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's not donating your blood, I mean, but you're still giving your blood to the cause of labs, you know what I mean? I don't like that. I'm a tough person; I don't particularly like a needle, an IV going into my body. I don't like to look at it. It's not gonna make me faint, I'm not a weenie because... |
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