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**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. So I don't have somebody walking around, taking play-by-play, and I'm not always aware of my internal dialogue... We reference it a lot of self-dialogue, or sometimes we have this way of talking to ourself that's very critical, our inner critic. So I would say something to myself tha... |
Really what is at the forefront of so many people right now is change. Everybody is having to change the way in which they would typically operate. Even a lot of people listening had their way in which they would listen to the podcast; be in on their way to work, which maybe they're not going to work, or they're not go... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** If you've read the book "Who Moved my Cheese?" I wanna know. You can come in Slack and say hello; or Twitter, because that works, too. But I'm really curious, because you mentioned change... Who has gone, since we've had that recent episode where we talked about it, has read that book? Because that'... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. And look, this is fundamentally how we're designed. We are designed to adapt, and that's why being aware of this mental framework helps me be more intentional about what I do in response to especially things that create negative feelings for me. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right? I've heard a lot of people reference this time, like "I can go through it or I can grow through it." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** And I don't know if -- do you grow very much, Adam? Do you guys garden? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** No, we don't grow anything, honestly. We grow kids... Not vegetables though. Well, I suppose we have grass, and some landscaping, but that's about all we grow. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, it's interesting, because I think about that process of planting, or sort of sowing and reaping, and even I can talk about it as it relates to kids... But there is this degree of patience... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, that's true. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** ...and really adapting, because in the case of planting food - are you in charge of the weather? No... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** No. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, I mean, you can be, in a controlled environment, sure. So that could be argued. But yeah, I get it; if we're relying only on rain, then the answer is no, you don't have control. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[19:54\] Right. This is coming back to some of that binary thinking - if I presume I have all the charge in my life, that isn't true; I do have some control, but not all control. So imagine I am always operating under certain constraints, and that there is a process to anything I do, be i... |
I always talk about this a lot with moms, in terms of, you know, you plant and you plant and you plant, and repeat, repeat, and five years later you're like "Oh my gosh, it took root!" \[laughter\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I can't believe they believe that, because I said that 17,000 times. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yes! Yeah, so interestingly enough, those are some of the things that are sticky for each one of us. I'm sure if everybody took a second, and I'm like "Tell me something that you heard all the time growing up. What was a statement your parents said to you, or what was the sort of thing tha... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Hm... Something very silly, but "Don't crush your eyes, they'll stay that way." |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right?! \[laughs\] Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Stupid stuff, that seems silly, but -- and you extrapolate that across other... And then what's really more interesting is that your parents were programmed by their parents, and onward up. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And some of us have grandparents who lived in the depression, and there's a lot that -- the way that impacted society then impacted the way they treated resources, and family, and finances, and all that good stuff. So those things get passed down through generations and they become -- people are mor... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right, and so that had emotion. There was legitimate threat, which caused an emotional response, which then got embedded, which then was sort of like never questioned. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** This is true. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Like, I'm always going to keep things; I don't let things go, because if I do, I might not ever replace them. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. When you say that, that reminded me of the show Hoarders. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There's some extreme situations there, and it's a shame -- we actually watch that show to some degree for entertainment, because it is kind of entertaining to see how extreme people can be about their belongings, and their health conditions, and their hygiene, and sanitary of their home... And the r... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** And who gets to be in charge of when it leaves? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** They do. They're in control. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. Which they didn't have before. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What's really more interesting - and I don't wanna harp on this too far, but how extreme their environments can get, their homes. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Really dirty, really unsanitary... Almost no cleaning, almost like they're trying to harm themselves indirectly, without consciously doing it. Not intentionally - it doesn't seem, in most cases - but it's really interesting how trauma affects us. And that show is an extreme example of the ramificati... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[23:52\] Yeah. And I think I've said this before, but that way in which it's not our eyes that actually do the seeing. Our rods and cones simply take in light, but it's our brain that runs the program that puts that together and assigns a word and a meaning to that. |
So literally, those people don't see it the way somebody else sees it, and it's protective. Again, imagine I am constructing my brick wall so that nothing can harm me. So if someone would say to me "There's a problem with your wall', I'd be like "No, you need to go build one, too." So I'm going to be far more possessiv... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What we're seeing now is a different ramification of trauma. We're seeing grief happen, we're seeing depression happen... In many cases it's easy to have this "grieving the future", this future loss that hasn't quite come yet, this uncertainty; the grief that comes from looking at your calendar and ... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yes, most certainly. So how do we make sense of that? What do we do with that loss, and how do we respond to it? It in no way is helpful to minimize any person's struggle. Because look, not all of us are encountering the same stressors. We all are encountering stress, but how we respond to... |
Look, if you can imagine, the reason I even like the word "framework" is because it provides literally a form for how we think. It would be really weird if I created some sort of recipe and I had no container and I put it in the oven. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's so true. I was gonna go back to your grow analogy, which is like tomatoes often need -- |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** A structure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** They go along a vine. Right, they need that lattice to connect to. And without it, they just kind of grow everywhere, with no constraints and no framework. Given a framework, they can grow in a way that's desired from the grower. And you're the grower, right? You're the grower of your life. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So if you can imagine, our framework is really where the internal and the external come together and create a shape. You can always change that shape. That's the great thing... And go "Look, we've all been trained." Nobody is immune. And some of the things that people have experienc... |
It's interesting, when I was in graduate school I had an opportunity to work on a program specifically for - in this case it was women with co-occurring disorders, so substance abuse and trauma. And the challenge and treating this population of individuals was that if they started to try to work on the trauma, they wou... |
\[28:10\] But then you take away drinking and then they're activated back by their trauma. So they literally had this double-edged sword where they didn't know how or where to go to change things... And thankfully, there was a program that someone created, to go "Hey, here's how we can do both at the same time, and sup... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I think about like doing anything. If you need to do pretty much anything - cook a recipe, get up early... I was just watching a re-run of Today's Show, because they're actually running previously-recorded versions of it... Whatever, it doesn't matter. The point is I saw Mark Wahlberg and Al Roker a... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So without this framework, without this recipe - like you said, imagine trying to cook something with no container; just shoving it in the oven. That's not gonna happen. But at the same time, wouldn't it be easier to cook in general, if you had the recipe? |
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