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**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. But you can think of them, this other side of you, your inner critic or bully, that is sort of your self-regulatory aspect that says, "Oh, no. You don't do that in this public place, because that is out of bounds." So that part of you is trying to keep you in check all... |
But then this third aspect is this inner referee that's like, "Timeout, you two. You don't have to vilify one another. You get to be a kid and you get to be an adult", but how can we negotiate? And the referee's like, "Hey, critic, totally out of bounds. I call foul." You don't get t... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[28:22\] That's a difficult thing. You have to live with yourself. You said it before, you're the one who has to live with your own brain. Your own choices. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. Well, so the interesting caveat, as we talk about shame is the way in which it does have ramifications with other people. Because if I'm feeling so marred, so insufficient -- I mean, maybe a visualization of this might be like a homeless person trying to walk into a five-star res... |
So we have to recognize one of the remedies for managing or navigating shame looks like connection. Because while you still feel like hiding, if you want to come back -- and this is a testament to Brené Brown's work and research that says, "The remedy for shame is connection." Really finding compassion in... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It also gives you feedback. The self-regulating referee inside of us - that's a feedback loop as well, but sometimes isn't as kind or compassionate as we would desire. But the feedback loop of our tribe, our people connection is enough to remind us that our crazy isn't as crazy as we thi... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah, and really with that, that that isn't an accurate image. Even though your feeling side is going to say, "Yeah, that's real, and now you need to try to duck and cover and hide" when you're in the presence of another -- this is why sometimes people even talk about... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, behind the curtain. Yeah, I mean, if you have nothing to hide from anymore, you don't have anything to hide from anyone else... It's freeing. It's so freeing to not have secrets. There are things that are private and there are things that are secrets. The secrets are the things tha... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Correct. Yeah, exactly. The interesting thing is recognizing when you do feel that way, you're actually participating in your experience of disconnection. Because when I hide, I think that I'm too marred to be accepted, so I don't share. So I am disconnected, and then I don'... |
\[32:05\] You guys work on teams a lot in the tech industry, right? So if you're like, "Dude, I wrote this code. I did this program. I was trying to work on this thing. I just can't figure it out, or I just didn't show up, because I didn't want to be vulnerable to the criticism, condemnation or jud... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah... Sometimes those walls are self-built. Sometimes they're also part of the culture. This may be a subject matter for another show, but specifically with teams, there's often perceived walls built, whether it's me building them, of like "I can't show up today because I'... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. Well, you think about it, you hear that voice and it's-- I mean, think of the way that you read a text or an email, versus you hear the live response of another. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Way different. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** It's different. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Often way different. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yes. We hear it in a certain tone of voice or tenor that affects then how we feel, and may prompt further hiding. Or like, "Oh goodness, I really need to clarify this and come out of hiding." Or like, "I want to fight back." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I heard Jerod say recently on a podcast we did with Jeff Meyerson on Software Engineering Daily... Jerod is aware of this. So he knows that in text, so like in Slack, he's often just a brief person. He's aware that sometimes that can come off incorrectly. Just saying a one-word response answ... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:**"Oh, wait. You mean, you weren't actually threatening me when you said that?" |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's right. Exactly. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:**"Oh... Because my brain told me that you were threatening me." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Exactly. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:**"And so now I'm gonna respond in a hostile manner. Then I'll show you who's bigger!" |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's right. Or I'll hide. Or I'll go to my place. I'll go to my place. Okay, I'm in my corner. Thank you. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** [laughs] Yeah, yeah. So I want our listeners to get at this too from the brain perspective, and recognizing the set of underlying neuroscience of it. So first off, if you've heard of the ANS, so the autonomic nervous system... This is the part of our body that regulates our internal or... |
\[36:03\] So the sympathetic (think sympathy) the sympathetic nervous system is responsible for connecting the different organs of our bodies to our brain via our spinal cord. So when we perceive danger, our sympathetic (sympathizes) system causes us to prepare for fight, flight or freeze by increasing our heart rate, ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Where it's not needed. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah, yeah. The sympathetic nervous system is excitatory. Hence anxiety. Like, "I need to rev up. I need to get going." So the parasympathetic nervous system is comprised of nerve fibers and cranial nerves. I don't want everybody to get lost in all these things, so I'm ju... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And react. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. So I'm not thinking with the other aspects of my human brain, which allows more structures, more participation from more aspects of my brain to collaborate, to tell me any other information, to say like, "This isn't dangerous. He's not a bear." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. And I think that's because the-- and correct me if I'm wrong here, but I would assume it's because we have limited awareness. So when we're in a fight, flight or freeze response scenario, we have to activate the things that are most crucial in those kinds of modes, and a fully... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So our regular calm brain is able to see things that that lens of our brain sees things far more panoramic... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's right, the panoramic view. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:**...the picture view, versus tunnel vision of far and narrow. Because I need to see a threat coming from far away so that I can fight, flight or freeze. It's interesting, there was a paper published back in 2014 in the Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience - again, say that five ti... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I have, but I'm not familiar with the details. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** So functional MRIs, they're a way that we can get a picture of the brain in terms of what parts are getting activated by different colors. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Like blood full, and stuff like that? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah, yeah. So it's more of seeing how systems work and how information travels as opposed to just like a picture that's black and white, like MRI & CT. So the research team, when they did this study found out-- so they wanted to see how the brain reacted to the experience of s... |
\[40:04\] Remember, our frontal lobe is executive function, so executive assistant planning, organizing, speed of information processing, all sorts of things. It included the frontal lobe, which contains both the amygdala and this brain structure called the insula. I-N-S-U-L-A. So this insula was once believed to be im... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's like the epicenter area. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. So it's now believed to be involved in awareness or consciousness, and plays an important role in other functions; believed to be linked to emotion, including self-awareness, and inner personal experiences, like how I am with others. So the researchers have identified the insula ... |
So imagine this insula as like the control tower. So we get shamed, and our control tower's like, "Whoa, all hands on deck! We need to fight for our life. Fight, flight, or freeze or play dead, because there's a danger here!" So remember, when you're trying to reason out these emotions, you don... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, why in the world is our brain designed like that? I mean, if shame is such a commonplace emotion, why is our self-awareness and interpersonal experiences embedded in this insula, which seems to do the work at the time, but we just can't quite compute it the way it should be? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Ideally, our brains are supposed to work together. So could you imagine a life devoid of emotion? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It'd be very difficult to do that. You couldn't reason with the emotion even. It would cancel itself out even, because emotion is this self-awareness thing. And if you're not self-aware, is it real? Did it even happen? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, doesn't emotion also drive connection? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Often, yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** I can think of people that I want to move towards or I want to move away. So all of these things are intertwined, like a ball of yarn, in terms of being in relationship; I'm connected to others, I am designed to be attached, tethered to -- my brain signals a danger when I'm not wit... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yes. So what connecting can I anchor to? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So if you think about it, there's like a three-stepped process of going "Identify the threat, identify the motion", and it might not just be shame; it might be just helplessness, it might be a broader fear. It could be that inadequate, wrong... But then identify your t... |
\[44:20\] And then three, you need that raft, that soothing system. So you need to upload a new, soothing, calming system. Imagine like you update software all the time. |
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