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bilibili_data_14319913_BV1pW411R7pB_p5_BV1pW411R7pB_p5_m4-dialogue_0518220
[S1] So you can take the subway if you want. I think it's the orange line and get off at Mission Street. Um, or you can take the bus number 18 to Green and Second. [S2] Okay. [S1] Or instead of that, you can just take a taxi if you want. Sound good? [S2] Yeah. [S1] Yeah.
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[S1] Good. [S2] Oh, and the concert, it's at 6:00. Don't be late. [S1] Okay.
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[S1] Yeah, everyone's already gone inside. I'm the only person waiting out here. [S2] Oh, no. Hey, I'm really sorry. I lost my way. [S1] It's not that difficult. It's right at Grand and First Street, okay? [S2] Oh, okay, okay. I'll get in a taxi. [S1] Okay, well, just call me when you're close. [S2] Yeah, yes, I'm coming now.
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[S1] Sorry, Felton. [S2] It's okay. [S1] Look, I went to the subway station in time, but the subway train didn't stop at Allen Station. It rerouted to Highland Park, and I couldn't find a taxi. I tried to get on a bus and went to Hollywood and the Rose Bowl in Chinatown, and then there was this huge traffic jam. I just couldn't get out of it.
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[S1] How was the concert? [S2] Good. [S1] All right. Look, I told you I'm sorry.
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[S1] You mean, I'll be you and you'll be me? [S2] Yes. I'll do all your jobs. Finding food, being grown up, and most importantly, lying in the grass and thinking a lot. And you'll be me and do all my jobs. [S1] And what jobs are they?
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[S1] Do you think he's going to eat the carrot? [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] So many sparkly stars. [S2] Mm, so very many. [S1] Huh. [S2] Guess how much I love you. [S1] Okay. One, two, three. You love me more than three stars up in the sky.
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[S1] I can't wait until spring so I can roll around in the long green grass. [S2] It is taking a long while for spring to come, though. [S1] Maybe we should do something while we wait. [S2] Yes. Let's play a game of I Spy Colors. [S1] Okay. I'll pick something. [S2] And I'll guess what it is. [S1] Hmm. There's a lot of brown in here.
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[S1] Hello, little field mouse. What are you doing? [S2] Trying to get this log unstuck, but I'm too light. [S1] But why? [S2] So we can go for a ride. [S1] Yay! [S2] I'll help. [S1] Oh, won't you come for a ride? We might catch our sticks. [S2] What a fine idea.
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[S1] We look amazing. [S2] I'm very good at decorating stuff. [S1] Mm. Well, that's much sillier than yours. [S2] [GASPS] I've got to go. I'm decorating cookies for everyone. [S1] Cookies? Mm. What kind? [S2] Coconut.
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[S1] You okay? [S2] Oh. [S1] [LAUGHS] Well, you didn't need the bin to stop this time. [S2] [SIGHS] Yeah. [S1] Don't you want to play with them anymore? [S2] I'm no good at skating. But it's easy. I'll show you. [SIGHS] Watch me, Posy. Whee! [LAUGHS] Zoom! Whoa. Whoa!
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[S1] You are. You didn't come to the park. [S2] Me and Piggy were a bit sniffly and snuffly. We didn't feel like going out. [S1] Oh, come to the park. You'll feel way better. [S2] Nah, you go. [S1] No way. I'd rather stay here with you. [S2] [GASPS] I can be Dr. Posy. [S1] That's brilliant. [S2] I know. Dr. Posy's on the case. [S1] I'll soon feel better with Dr. Posy here. [S2] I
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[S1] Where's my kite? [S2] It's, it's, someone took it. [S1] Took it? [S2] Yeah. This girl just walked past and grabbed it. [S1] What? Why did you let her? [S2] Uh, she was a big girl. [S1] A big girl? Who? [S2] Her name was Cre-um-scar. [S1] Cre-um-scar? I don't know her. Where did she go? [S2] Um... [S1] Come on, let's get my kite back. [S2] Oh. Ooh.
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[S1] Come on, pasta. [S2] Whoa! [S1] Priyanka? [S2] Yeah, a big girl. She took my kite. [S1] A big girl? How big? [S2] Mm? Uh, this big. [S1] That is big. [S2] Yeah. She's scary. [S1] She didn't come past here. [S2] Hmm. [S1] [GASPS] She's still in the park. [S2] [GASPS] Come on, I'll help you look. [S1] Oh. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] [LAUGHS] Hey, Zaza!
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[S1] Well, we've looked everywhere. She's gone. [S2] Oh, I really love that kite. Why did Cleopatra have to take it? [S1] [SNIFFS] [S2] Oh.
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[S1] Well, why don't you describe that crystal palace portion, the part that has lightly reflective glass and pewter colored lattice work, that really, I assume, is intended to reflect the city literally and figuratively, and that is the center portion. Who conceived the design for that? In fact, you might, if I may, and I, forgive me for making the question, it's multiple, but I want to- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... to touch on, uh, you know, many of the points that interest us.
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[S1] Is that not a, uh, an I am Paying Partners development? [S2] Yes, yes, it is. It is. [S1] And can you explain its use and is there a future use for it that other firms have adapted? What is Aspiring Gasket, anyway?
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[S1] Is the lattice work frame that was used both at the John F. Kennedy Library complex and will be the, uh, I guess support structure for the Crystal Palace portion of the convention center. [S2] Exactly the same. [S1] And was that developed by your firm for the, the library? [S2] No. It's a firm that you can, it's a, it's a product that you can buy in the market.
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[S1] I think the future is already here. It has recognized this to be a great office building. I'm very proud of it because it's designed by my partner and I want to say- [S2] Harry Cobb. [S1] ... Henry Cobb. Uh, so, very, very proud of that building. The case, uh, John Hancock case is a very interesting case for architects and I think
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[S1] Any specific building, a secret dream, a, that you have for a specific building or a specific location for which you would like to create a design? [S2] Oh, not for a while. We have enough. [S1] Well, when you just think about it.
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[S1] Because I, I want to know what "I love you" means. [S2] Uh, what does it mean? [S1] I see. It's hard to communicate your feelings, isn't it? The truth is that my parents have passed away. So all I have left is my brother Spencer. To be honest, sometimes I don't even know what I'm supposed to say to him.
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[S1] The public love letter's purpose is to express your love for one another as beautifully as possible. You need to convince the people of how extraordinary your marriage is. [S2] Doll, it all depends on your ability to write a letter. [S1] Yes, I am fully aware. I will not betray your expectations, Your Highness. [S2] I feel like I'm not even talking to a human right now. You really are a doll.
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[S1] Sorry, I'm being difficult. [S2] No, it's not that. [S1] Huh? [S2] It's just that it's not a question, and I didn't think you would like my answer. [S1] Oh. [S2] For me, that person's existence is practically the world itself. Without them here, I'd rather be dead. [S1] Uh, uh... I see. Okay, then.
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[S1] Here are the requests for letters. [S2] This many? [S1] Since the public loved letters, there have been even more requests for Violet. [S2] Oh. So, uh... [S1] Hmm? [S2] Did you talk to her yet? About the major? [S1] No. [S2] I only ask because lately, I sometimes see her lost in thought.
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[S1] I'm sorry for earlier today. [S2] No, you are the one who is truly in pain. I apologize for being the one to lose composure. [S1] I will finish it. I'll finish Olive's story. The girl will reach her home and be with her father. No matter how difficult the adventure, she will have a happy ending. Both Olive and the audience will be happy. I will do it.
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[S1] Sir, do you have writer's block again? [S2] Mm. Could you walk towards me from over there? I'd like to visualize it. [S1] I only need to walk? [S2] Yes, across the fallen leaves on the lake, if you can. [S1] Copy that. [S2] Huh? No, that- that last bit was just-
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bilibili_data_14577351_BV1PG4y1r7TH_p92_BV1PG4y1r7TH_p92_m4-dialogue_0967925
[S1] Then can I assign this job to you, Cataleya? [S2] All right. [S1] That just leaves this one. [S2] It's from Camp Manus in Katrigal? That's our former enemy in the north. Someone there requested a rider. [S1] Hiring dolls is common for station soldiers. We've already placed ads everywhere, but... [S2] So what's the problem? [S1] The war. It doesn't seem to be quite over yet.
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[S1] It can't reach me here at Tokyo Tower. [S2] [LAUGHS] That's true. That's very true. But what can you do from so far away, hmm? After taking all that trouble to hack into the system, what's your grand plan? A remote control attack with some battery-operated toys? Or a tongue-lashing to lecture me into submission? Ah, Cat got your tongue now. If you want C-2, then you're gonna have to come- [S1] Mal, think. You don't believe-
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[S1] Stand out if you sprouted wings and flew around. Not to mention the police would have no trouble finding you. [S2] I was only joking. Anyway, if I keep bargaining for eyes and wings and whatever else, next thing you know, I'm going to end up becoming a real Shinigami. Though, who knows? I bet that could be pretty interesting. [S1] I wouldn't worry. Even without the eyes and the wings, you're already a worthy Shinigami.
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[S1] Met Kira? Oh, I'm sorry, but if a person came in saying they'd met Kira, the police would be more than a little skeptical, to say the least. [S2] I know. That's why I need to explain it in person to someone from Task Force Headquarters. Otherwise, I'm afraid they'll just write me off. [S1] But wouldn't it be better if your friend spoke to them instead? [S2] It probably would, but he's no longer alive. He was one of the 12 FBI agents who came to Japan to investigate Kira.
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[S1] An FBI agent who met Kira. Could it be? [S2] You see, he was also my fiance. While he was working, he got caught up in a bus jacking, and I have reason to believe that he met Kira on that bus. [S1] Ray Penber. [S2] Is something wrong? [S1] Nothing. I- I'm sorry to hear that he passed away.
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[S1] What a nice surprise. I wasn't expecting you home so early. [S2] Yeah. Hi, Mom. It's because... Uh-huh. Oh, the results of the nationwide exams. [S1] I've been waiting all day. [S2] Here. [S1] Goodness, number one again. These are the highest scores you've had. [S2] Yeah, I guess. I'm going to study in my room, so please don't interrupt me, okay?
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[S1] As you wish. Oh, light. Do you want anything at all, dear? You can ask for whatever you like. [S2] No, I'm fine, Mom. Thanks, though. I've already got what I want. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] Apples in the human world are worth the trip. What's the best way to describe these? Juicy. [S2] Just answer my question. [S1] [LAUGHS] I didn't choose you. Don't you see, this is all just an accident. You actually thought you were chosen because you're so smart or something? Don't be so vain. It just happened to fall around here and you just happened to pick it up, and that's all there is to it. That's why I wrote the instructions in English, the most popular language in the human world.
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[S1] Just as I expected. You beat me. [S2] It's been a while since I had to play that hard. I'm feeling kinda thirsty. Plus, there's something I wanted to ask you about. You wanna go somewhere for a drink? [S1] You humored me with a tennis match. The least I can do is answer some of your questions. But before this conversation goes any further, there's something I must tell you. [S2] What's that?
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[S1] Not to mention, we're so out of the way here, no one's going to give you a hard time about the way you sit. [S2] I don't sit like this because I want to. I have to sit like this. You see, if I were to sit normally, my deductive skills would immediately be reduced by roughly 40%. So, what was it you wanted to ask me? [S1] Right. I'm sure that can wait until you're convinced that I'm not Kira. So please, let's talk about whatever you want to. [S2] You're under no obligation to do this, but would you mind submitting yourself to a test of your deductive reasoning skills?
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[S1] Well, you got me there. I didn't think of that. In any case, the likelihood this message will lead you to Kira is not very great. Besides, we all know gods of death don't exist. [S2] If you were me, faced with someone who might be Kira, how would you go about establishing this person's innocence or guilt? You'd need to be absolutely sure. [S1] I would probably try to get him to say something that was never made public in any way, something that only Kira could know. Kinda like what you were doing just now.
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[S1] Let's, let's talk. Let's gab. Let's get into it. [S2] We were, we were behind there and we're just doing a dance. [S1] Mm-hmm. [S2] It is, it is, it does lend itself to that, doesn't it? [S1] It does. I feel like if I only take part of it, I'm not using it, uh, fully. [S2] Well, I mean, if we get into, like, deep psychology, then you can be like, "Tell me how it feels." [S1] Yeah. Um, this is good. It's a good slumber party kind of situation. [S2] Which is, when I slumber party, I do it in front of hundreds of people. [S1] [LAUGHS] That's the only way to do it. [S2] I don't know how the fuck you do it, but that's how I do it. [S1] Yeah.
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[S1] over the same night, but it's three different stories that kind of break out of that. Um, or, you know, what if we go forward and then go backwards and then go forward and go back again? Uh, and so in season three particularly, we really kind of, you know, put our, our foot to the gas on those concept-y episodes. Um, and so, you know, I think early on I had the idea of like, "Oh, what if we did like an episode of no dialogue?" Um, because just 'cause it seemed like a fun challenge. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And I, I didn't quite- [S2] You just like making life hard for yourself. [S1] Exactly.
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[S1] Exactly. Well, I think if you don't, then it gets boring, right? And so, you know, we, we talk about it in the room and say, "All right, how would we do that?" Right? And, and, you know, we looked at, like, other shows that have done stuff like that. So, uh, Buffy the Vampire Slayer has a famous episode, um, that is mostly silent. [S2] I love the, like, the bumpy clap. [S1] That's okay. [S2] Down in front. [S1] He, he's not here. He won't know. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Um, you can clap or not clap all you want. Josh, we will not be offended. [S2] We could tweet him. Just so you know, there's, like, three claps happening in Sydney right now. [S1] Uh, right.
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[S1] ... to the underwater episode. [S2] So, so, so we knew I, we wanted to do a silent episode, uh, because I, because I didn't know how to do it. It felt like a fun challenge because, you know, unlike Buffy, I couldn't just have like a demon come in and cast a spell on everybody and nobody can talk anymore. [S1] Right. [S2] That's, those fucking hacks, let me tell you. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] If I could just do any kind of episode and say, "Ooh, a spooky witch comes and casts a spell," and now all the actors are Muppets or whatever.
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[S1] He, he always wanted to do an underwater episode. He, he loves animals, animal jokes. A lot of the kind of background animal stuff that happens on the show comes from him. Um, and, and at the end of season two, we had a gag where we had a cruise ship and we had one ladder going up from, from the dock and we had another ladder coming out of the ocean with like fish people going out. So in his mind, like, we'd established that they were like fish cities. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And so he wants to do an episode there. And that was a real headache for me, first of all, because I don't want to talk to him. I'm busy. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Uh, I got other stuff I'm trying to put together. [S2] Does he know you feel this-
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[S1] No, no, no. Um, I, I love Mike Hollingsworth. Please don't tweet out anything bad about Mike. Um, but he, he's one of my closest collaborators on the show. Uh- [S2] You've acted like too hard, now. You've purchased us too- [S1] I know, I'm really, I'm really-
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[S1] Has there ever been a gag or a running theme on the show that you wished had gotten a bigger reaction than it actually did? [S2] Ooh, that's a good question. [S1] 'Cause there's so many small things like character actress Marco Martindale and like, things like that that come up. But has there ever been something like, I put that Easter egg in there and it hasn't come up yet? [S2] Um, th- we, I would say, so, I've been really delighted by the fact that everything kind of gets found. [S1] Mm. [S2] Right? Like, n- I don't think-
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[S1] We've put a joke in the show that someone hasn't discovered. And I, you know, I am the worst at just Googling myself and the show and seeing what people are saying so, like, I see everything. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And so, every joke is, like, accounted for. Like, I don't think anybody catches everything. Like, I think there's stuff that I am missing in the show that the animators are, like, putting in. It's, like, this is a funny joke. And I'm, like, someone's, like, "Hey, I love that thing with the thing." And I was, like, "Oh, yeah, we, you know, I- I- I- [S2] I'm a genius, and yes, it was planned. [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] ... that he would call that an Americano and it's a latte. So then, um, in season three, we have a flashback episode, uh, where Mr. Peanutbutter is in a Starbucks. [S2] Yeah. [S1] And Diane is the barista there, and he says, "Uh, I want an Americano with steam instead of milk," or whatever the thing is. And Diane goes, "Okay, one latte coming up." And so the gag is that Mr. Peanutbutter doesn't know the difference. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] So we've stopped, we, we... And so I was really hoping the person who's for- for- like, "Oh my God! He-
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[S1] Uh, I did a, a, a Reddit Q and A in the first season. Um, and there's a, there's a throwaway joke in, I think episode one or episode two where, uh, Princess Carolyn calls Bojack and he answers the phone and says, "I don't know what happened to it. Don't put things in my butt if you want them back." [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] And then the, the gag is that it's actually her assistant on the phone and he has to go, "Ooh," you know. Um, but there's a question on Reddit of like, "Are you ever gonna tell us what the thing was that got put in Bojack's butt?" Uh, and so then I said- [S2] That's why you've got season four. [S1] That's why
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[S1] No, well, so Jessica Biel is interesting because, you know, she did the show and we sent her the script and she called me on the phone, which most actors don't. Most actors, like, show up and do it. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] But she, I heard, like, "Jessica Biel really wants to talk to you." And I was like, "I don't wanna, oh God, what's she gonna say?" You know? [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] She's gonna, she's gonna complain about something. What do we do? You know? And it's always hard too when we're, we have actors who play themselves 'cause of course they wanna be a little protective of that and I understand that. [S2] Sure. [S1] We're saying things about them. Um, and so she called and she said,
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[S1] And we just go to town on her again. [S2] The roast of Jessica Biel. Do you ever have those moments when you are in a recording- [S1] Oh, but I, sorry, but if you answer your question, though, um- [S2] I don't even remember what it was. [S1] Has anyone been upset by it? [S2] Yes. [S1] And the, the closest I think we've ever come, or to me knowing that, like, we really, mm, upset someone, was we had a joke about, uh, David Copperfield, the magician. [S2] Yes. [S1] Um, that, you know, we have, Wanda woke up from this coma and she's trying to, to, to pitch to the network and she says, "You know, why don't
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[S1] I would just jump back to the, the origins of the show. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Um, it is one of the most interesting shows about depression on TV. [S2] Thank you. [S1] But is, was that something you intended when you first kind of walked into Netflix?
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[S1] And, and, you know, it's always, it's always weird when you're making art, especially, this is a show that feels very personal to me, uh, to then have people be like, "You really captured, like, how fucked up and, like, damaged a person, a soul can be." And it's like, well, some of this stuff is damaged, right? But others, it's like normal, right? Like, some of this stuff is like, you're right. Like when he goes to the supermarket- [S2] No, what you think is normal is actually, like, super damaged. [S1] Right. And
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[S1] How do you manage the tone around that? Because when you are in an environment where, like, even when BoJack has a huge success, there's a few moments where he has a success and he realizes that he still feels empty on the inside. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Is, do you ever have those moments where you're like, "Is this too dire? Are we taking this to, to too nihilistic a place?" [S2] I don't think I've ever thought that, no. [S1] Uh, um. [S2] Uh, lie back and let's talk about your feelings now. [S1] No, I, I don't know. I mean, I, I think it's, um,
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[S1] No, I, I, I, I think we, we, we do try to keep a balance of it. And I think just, just, um, I guess less for, like, softening the blow and more just keeping things interesting. We don't want things to just feel like punching you over and over again. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Not because I'm afraid of hurting your nose, just 'cause it gets boring for me. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Um, and for you- [S2] And your RSI and your fist eventually. [S1] Right? Like,
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[S1] Right? Like, and I, I don't think that's a fun thing to watch. Even, even if you're a nihilist and, like, you like the fucked up stuff, eventually it's like, I get it. The world is pointless and meaningless. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] [GROANS] Um, and so we do try to have, like, moments of hope and, and moments of connection and, and, and, and things to kind of leaven it and, and, um, you know, mix it up a little bit. Um, but I, I don't th- you know, I, I think
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[S1] As we're making them and we don't have to, you know, it would be one thing if we were putting out episode one and episode two and then like seeing what people were saying about it and go, "Oh my God, we got a course correct." [S2] Yeah. [S1] Like that, I think that's really dangerous. Um, and so it's nice if we can kind of make our seasons in a bubble and then kind of push them out and be like, "Here it is. If you have complaints about episode three, it will not be addressed in episode eight." [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Like, "Sorry, um, this is what this show is." Um, you know, sometimes it gets, it gets, uh, confusing, um, because, you know, then we move on to
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[S1] the next season and people are just starting to talk about that season and then I have to, you know, do interviews and I'm like, "All right, what happened in episode, season three?" [S2] You ever, I've just thought, I should sit back and binge my own show before I go out and do press? [S1] Sometimes, yeah. I mean, we do, um, uh, you know, we have, we have a Christmas special.
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[S1] Um, and, and I try to get people to watch it every Christmas, 'cause a lot of times, um, 'cause it's not with the rest of the show on Netflix, so even if you've, if you've seen the whole show but you came to it a little late, you might have missed it. And so every Christmas, you know, I tweet out like, "Hey," you know, "watch the Christmas special again," if you, or for the first time if you haven't seen it. Um, and sometimes I do interviews around the Christmas special and I have to re-watch that to kind of remind myself, 'cause that, you know, that was like three, four years ago that we made that. Um, and it's, it's weird- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... [LAUGHS] to watch the old episodes. Um,
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[S1] There are actors who are not as good as the material you give them, which is such a fucking bummer. [S2] Please, not at Dimes. [S1] Um, well, but I, you know, and, and, uh, because you write these great lines in the room and then, like, you do the table read and it just, like, foom, foom, foom, and you're like, "I know that line's funny, but it's not connecting." And then, you know, it's a challenge. You have to
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[S1] are you doing here? What are you doing here? Where it's like, yeah, those are the three terrible versions, right? [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] You're like, yes, you gave me some variety, but I can't use any of it. So Will, we'll just like knock it out right away, three very funny versions of your joke. Um, he can also make the setups to jokes funny somehow, and I, this is where I'm in awe of his tongue. I don't know how he does it, but that his, his lines that are not meant to be funny become very funny. Like you can give him the line, "What?" And he'll just say, "What?" And it's,
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[S1] I can say the same thing about all of our actors, that all of them, I mean, you know, Paul F. Tompkins is hilarious, um, but I don't think anyone necessarily thought of him as a dramatic actor. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] And we started giving him more dramatic stuff and he just really was good at it. Um, so I, I am very delighted by all of them. [S2] Do you ever get two or three combinations in a room to see if they can play out a whole scene together? [S1] Very rarely. [S2] Oh, is that a scheduling thing or- [S1] Yeah.
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[S1] Yeah, it's, it is, 'cause we, you know, we have a lot of actors who are all doing other stuff. Um, so I don't think we're anyone's primary gig, so we get them when we can take them. It's true, you know? Um, and, and so it, it's, so, and, and, and, and I was kinda dubious about that at first, 'cause I don't come from an animation background. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] I was like, "Does it really work?" And then in the first few episodes, you edit it together and you go, "Oh, yeah, this feels totally normal." Like, you're not missing it, right? Like, you watch the show, you don't know that they're all recording separately. Um,
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[S1] They didn't like it, so it didn't get made. Um, then I got- [S2] Is that before or after he worked for Obama? [S1] That was after. It was right after, so he was looking to do, like, a political type show, which now he's on, um, the- [S2] Uh, Disney- [S1] ... Suburban one. [S2] ... Suburban. [S1] Yeah, yeah. So he, he found it. [S2] Yeah. [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] It took him long enough. [S1] Yeah, exactly. Um, and so I, I did that, which was a lot of fun. It was an amazing experience. Um, he's great. Uh, and then I got staffed on a show that lasted six episodes and then got canceled. [S2] Which show? [S1] Um, it was, I would be shocked if it made it down here. It was called Save Me. [S2] Yep. [S1] It was about, um- [S2] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] A- Anne Heche, uh, chokes on a, uh, a sub sandwich and then believes that God saved her and now God is telling her to do things. Um... [S2] It's almost hard to believe that didn't work. [S1] Well, it was, it was, yeah, I mean, I, we could have a whole hour on that. [S2] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] ... outlets. [S2] And then, and then I did, uh, six episodes of another show that also got canceled very quickly, um, which was, uh, Us and Them, which is the American version of Gavin and Stacy. [S1] Yeah, yeah. [S2] You know that? [S1] Yeah, yeah. [S2] Um, so that also didn't work. Um, and then I did BoJack, and here, here I am. [S1] So you, you said something interesting in an interview I was reading the other day where you said, um, Hollywood executives are reticent to commission things about Hollywood.
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[S1] in Boston to think that, like, we think we're so cool or something. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] So, like, let's make a show about Boston. And it's like- [S2] Which explains all of David A. Kelly's career. [S1] [LAUGHS] Exactly, that's why. Um, and so, yeah, so whenever you do pitch something about Hollywood, you do get that pushback. Um, and it's, it's like fear three times removed, 'cause it's like,
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[S1] The executives of the production company are worried that the executives at the network aren't gonna want it because the exec- executives at the network are worried that their bosses at the network aren't gonna want it because the bosses at the network is worried that, like, middle America's not gonna like it. [S2] Oh, God. [S1] So, and that's, like, how a lot of, like, decisions in Hollywood are made. It's, like, fear of, like, other people and, like, second-guessing and, like, trying to predict what other people aren't gonna like and then being, like, "Here you go." [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] "It's two and a half men." [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] ... executive. [S2] He's a huge figure. And he used to do the introductions in America for the wonderful world of Disney, right? So I remember him being like, "Uh, here's a little funny thing about angels when they get into the outfield." And so I got to be, and I was like, "That's the guy who introduced angels in the outfield on TV." [S1] It's so weird they made the CEO do that.
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[S1] Like, when you think about it, it's so weird. [S2] I think, I think he liked it. I think he wanted to. Um, and so I'm like, pitching to him, which was a, I mean, I was like, "If this goes no further than this, at least I get to, like, talk to this guy about it." And he, um, said, you know, "Does he have to be an actor? Like, could he be, like, um, a, a, a horse, a racehorse or something like that that's washed up?" And instead of in, uh, Los Angeles, it takes place in Kentucky. And I said, "Okay, well, that's the whole premise of my show. It's no different." [S1] [LAUGHS] [S2] Um, but I can work with that, right?
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[S1] I'm gonna get that yes. And so I kinda, I actually pitched out a version where he was a racehorse. And I, you know, and one of the things I said was, "He's tired of running in circles," which ended up being a part of the show. [S2] Yeah. [S1] For Secretariat later. Um, and I kinda had that version. I said, "But you know what? I like the Hollywood version better, and here's why." And I had my pitch for that. And, you know, what I said is I, I said, "I think this is a show about
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[S1] Um, dreams and about someone who's kind of risen the ladder and gotten to the top and finds that he still isn't happy. And I feel like in our culture, show business represents that a little better than sports does. I mean, sports, you, similar ground. [S2] Yeah, yeah, I can see it. [S1] But I, I feel like Hollywood is so sparkling and dazzling and you have this house in the Hollywood Hills overlooking everything. It just feels like a, a, a greater illustration, a better extension of that idea.
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[S1] We did, we, we developed it for a very long time. And so, when I actually originally pitched the idea to Tarantula, I had done, I had nothing. I had not done the cow pan thing. I'd not worked on the other two shows. I had like some sketch comedy and like a couple like pilots I'd written on spec. And this guy, Steve Cohen, just like found me and was like, "You seem like a smart guy. What do you got cookin'?" [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Um, and so like I, I pitched this show. Um, he's like, "All right, sure." And then we like worked on it together for like two years. Then meanwhile, I got these other opportunities, I was doing this other stuff. So then it was time to actually do my own show. Like, okay, I think
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[S1] I think I know how to do a show now. Like, if it'd gotten picked up right away, I would've floundered. [S2] Did you pitch it as an animation? 'Cause- [S1] Yeah. [S2] 'Cause I, I wanna know what the image, 'cause it starts with a picture that a friend of yours drew of a horse, is that right? [S1] Yeah. [S2] So, take me back to that image. Where did that image come from? [S1] Well,
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[S1] Well, so, so my friend Lisa Hannah-Walt, um, who designs all the characters of the show and works on the show, um, I've known her since middle school, so we, we've been good friends for a long time. So, so part of this project was like, how can I work with my friend Lisa? Like, that's a lot of, like, Hollywood is just like, I wanna work with my friends. Like, how can I get away from all these other assholes and just, like, do my thing with, like, my cool buddies? [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Um,
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[S1] All right. I didn't want to, like, use my friend... I didn't want to call her and be, like... 'Cause I was, like, we're friends, and it'd be weird if I was, like, "Come on, do it." You know? I got... I... I wanted to still be friends. That was more important to me than the show. [S2] You wanted to preserve the friendship. [S1] Exactly. I wanted to preserve the friendship. So then they hired this other guy, and they, they would meet this other guy. We think he's, like, really talented. [S2] Mm.
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[S1] About six months later, like, "We're gonna go back to Lisa. We're gonna offer her more money." [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] [LAUGHS] We really just got Lisa in our head, and we really want her to do it. So they went back to her, and they, they said, how, you know, "Please, please, please. You've ruined us for anybody else." Um, and, and she, she said, uh, "Well, what do I have to do?" And they said, "Just, like, design the characters. And if you don't wanna do anything else, you can go." And she's like, "All right." And so she did that. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] And then, like, she kinda got used to it. She's like, "All right, okay." So then she, she and her boyfriend moved out to LA, and now she works on the show full-time.
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[S1] I like Lisa's, uh, negotiating technique of just saying no. [S2] Well, that's, I mean, that's, that's, you gotta be able to walk away from anything or you're screwed. [S1] Yeah. [S2] Especially in Hollywood 'cause they'll, they're, they're, they're coming from the place of like, it's, we're doing you a favor. And so, if a second you say, "No, I don't need this," and they're like, "Well, actually, no, no, no, no, no, no, no." And so, if you don't have that in your pocket, you're gonna get ripped off. [S1] How long did it take you to learn that lesson, that, that you had power in saying no?
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[S1] Um, I still don't quite know it, but my wife reminds me every day. Uh, she is, she is very much, uh, that person. I admire her greatly 'cause she'll, she's a TV writer too, and she'll get off and she's like, "Nah." She'll, like, talk for months about it and get, like, all her ideas and be like, "We wanna pay you this much." Like, "Nah, I'm gonna do something else." I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, wait!" Um, and I admire her greatly 'cause it's, it's the only leverage we have as artists. [S2] If you could change anything about Hollywood, what would you change? [S1] Oh, [LAUGHS] oh, my God. Just one thing? Um,
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[S1] I don't know. I mean, I, I think it's, I, well, here, here's, here's the thing that I am passionate about right now. [S2] Yeah. [S1] Um, which is, is smaller than some of the bigger problems I have, 'cause I have a lot of problems with Hollywood. Um, no, I'm not, this is boring. I'm gonna say the other version, the other thing. [S2] Okay.
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[S1] I think even now, you know, you, you, you, um, you take one step in the right direction and you have like 20 men pat themselves on the back and say, "Okay, let's go have lunch." Right? And so I, I think it is something we need to be diligent about and be better at. And that, that is the thing that I would, I would like to change and, and have more people working towards that and moving faster in that direction. [S2] In the position that you're in as a guy that- [S1] Yeah. [S2] ... runs a TV show, what do you do? What, what can you do?
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[S1] I, I would like there to be more pressure on show runners to do that because, I mean, it's shocking how many, um, rooms are still all men or all white men specifically. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] Um, you know, I, I, I make an effort to hire people of color, people with different perspectives than I have, um,
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[S1] Since it is about Hollywood, I try to highlight that and point to that as a problem and, and satirize those issues and, and talk about them in the show itself. [S2] There's also, I was reading some challenges, I guess, in, in terms of how you, when you started to cast characters as humans or animals as well, you were very careful that that didn't necessarily cross into racial lines as well. [S1] Right, I think that's- [S2] Talk me through that. [S1] That's been a challenge too, I think. Um,
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[S1] You know, 'cause I think, uh, Zootopia handled this very well, actually. [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] But that's actually arguable, 'cause I, I've heard cr- criticisms of Zootopia as well, um, but that they, you know, they very clearly wanted to make some racial analogs with their animals- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... and the predators and the prey. And I think it gets very sticky because you see very quickly, you can go, "So are you saying that black people are predators?" [S2] Yeah. [S1] Right? Is that, is that what you're saying? Um, and you're th- and then you say, "Well, no, just in this movie they get stereotyped in a similar way." You know, and so it's- [S2] Where does
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[S1] So it's- [S2] Where does your allegory end and when do you start getting stuff from there? [S1] Exactly. And so it's, it's very sticky. And we actually had, um, on our show, uh, early in the first season, we had, just by coincidence, we had three writers who'd worked on the, the show Cavemen, uh, which I don't know if it ever made it down here. [S2] It, it didn't. So this is the show that was based on a series of commercials by Geico. [S1] Yes, Geico. It was based on a series- [S2] But somehow, a series of ads became a TV show. [S1] Yeah.
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[S1] doing their allegory, right? They were kinda, we're gonna tell these stories with these characters, and almost immediately, the reaction was like, "That's terrible, and so are you saying black people are cavemen?" [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Um, and so they really scared me off of that early on. Like, I don't wanna get in that pool, I don't wanna be doing that at all. I don't wanna be saying like, "Yeah, all the, you know, the, the lemurs at Sarah Lynn's party," like, wink, wink, you know what kind of people they really are, right? They're, 'cause they're lemurs. Um, and, and, right? And, [LAUGHS]
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[S1] And so I didn't want to be like, "Oh, those, these filthy lemurs who are an analog for, I don't know what." So we didn't, right? [S2] Yeah. [S1] Um, but that has, it has made it tricky to comment on race in a real way too because- [S2] Yeah. [S1] ... when half of your characters are animals, it kind of changes the racial dynamics a little bit. [S2] Hardly. [S1] I do think it would, you know, that like, b- the difference between a white person and a Latino in America,
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[S1] It doesn't seem as big as the difference between a white person and a rhinoceros. And so it's, it's harder to kind of maybe dive into those issues and, and tell those kinds of stories. So it has been a challenge. [S2] You guys got questions? Great. So I should let you know, the first ten people that ask a question get a free thing. What do they get? [S1] Uh, a prize. [S2] They get a prize. [S1] I don't want
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[S1] I don't want to spoil it. You'll see what it is. Oh, oh, and, and just so you guys know, there are, uh, f- f- slightly different prizes. If you're not happy with the one you got, you cannot trade it in for a different one. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Just be like, "Oh, cool, I got this thing." [S2] Whatever you get, just be like, "This is great, I'm watching season four." [S1] Right, "This is more than what I had a minute ago." [S2] [LAUGHS] All right, um, you have the tallest hands, so you're going first. I'll wait for the microphone to come to you, though.
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[S1] Uh, there was a Twitter thread that you did that kind of became a bit infamous about Marge Simpson. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Um, that I think stuck out for a lot of people and I was wondering if...
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[S1] Well, here's, here's, I'll, I'll- [S2] If that's the rumor that's spreading, I would say the answer is yes. [S1] It's great. Well, but I, I, you know, I, I, um, I remember one of, one of the, the, the first plays I wrote in college, you know, you write it in sections 'cause you're in this workshop. And so I wrote the first third, and it was really, um, heavily based on my relationship with my best friend from high school. And,
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[S1] They don't and I don't want it. [S2] You don't want it? [S1] I don't want, I mean, it's, I don't wanna, apparently, you know, very early on, um, I don't know if this is a story I'm allowed to tell actually about Netflix. [S2] Then definitely tell it. [S1] [LAUGHS] Um, but, uh, uh, allegedly, I actually didn't hear this from them. I heard it like fourth party, so it might not even be true. [S2] It's fine. [S1] But apparently, um, they were, uh, you know, at the beginning they weren't sure how, do we tell our creators about who's watching, who's not watching. Um, so they went to David Fincher, uh, and they said, you know, House of Cards, and the first minute, uh, he kills a
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[S1] ... dog. That's like the first thing that Underwood does on that show. And he said, and the people just, "Boo, boo, boo, boo, boo." Like at that moment, like a minute to, you just lost like a whole bunch of people. And David Fincher said, "Never tell anybody anything like that ever again." [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] And so we might have him to thank. Uh, but as far as I know, yeah, they don't give us the numbers. I don't wanna know. Like I'm happy to just like, me and my creative little sandbox and not think about like, are we doing better or are we doing worse? Is this, you know, 'cause then, then you start to overthink it and try to, we lost people.
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[S1] We gotta get 'em back, and I don't wanna do that. [S2] It's a pretty drastic cultural change from that to doing broadcast television, which is what you were doing before, where everything's minute by minute. [S1] Yes. [S2] And you're happy to never go back to that? [S1] I don't need it. Yeah, I don't want it. [S2] Cool. Who else has a question? Uh, this woman over here. Yeah, no, it's you, the one looking around. No, no, you, the one point- okay. [S1] The one pointing. [S2] Okay. Sure. I'm so bad at the picking of people. I'm- I'm- [S1] You're doing a great job. Don't be so hard on yourself. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] And I pitched the whole season. I said, "Here's episode one, here's episode two, here's episode three," all the way through episode 12. Um, and I really, you know, kinda, as I said, it's gonna end with Bojack alone, uh, at the Griffith Observatory, and he's gotten everything he thought he wanted, and he's never been more alone or isolated, and that's the end of the season. And I think, ending on that note, really kind of perked their ears up, like, "Oh, this is a different kind of cartoon. This is something- [S2] Mm-hmm. [S1] ... different than what we've seen before." Um,
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[S1] Because I have this amazing group of other writers and we collaborate and we pitch jokes and we listen to each other and we, you know, we talk about stuff. Um, but at the end of the day, it is my show and I'm not gonna let something through that I don't like. Um, and so, you know, every episode that we've made is something that I've been very proud of and I feel personally connected to. Um, and I, I think, you know, the benefit of these shorter seasons that you have now as opposed to, I mean, I don't know what the model is in Australia, but in America- [S2] We tend to do shorter ser- seasons. [S1] Yeah. So- [S2] Plenty of-
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[S1] Has there ever been an episode that surprised you in how well it turned out? [S2] Um, yes. [S1] Which one? [S2] Um, I'd say the, uh, the game show episode in season two. [S1] Oh. [S2] Um, which really became a fan favorite. [S1] Yeah. [S2] And, and there were moments when it was coming together where it was like, I don't know if this one's gonna work. Like, I really, like, 'cause also, you know, when you pitch the jokes over, like, you hear them over and over again and you're like, "I thought this was funny." At some point, "Is this still funny?" Um, so that one, for whatever reason, was,
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[S1] You know, I've kind of stopped worrying because I've noticed as this, each season comes out, all my worries are wrong. Like, "Oh, I was worried about this one, but it turns out people hated that episode," or whatever. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] You know, like, I don't know. So, and I am, you know, I have my own lug baggage with everything, whatever. But that was one where I, I really, I, it, it kinda came together in a beautiful way, and I'm really proud of it. But there was a while where I was like, "I don't know if this is working."
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[S1] I somehow got it linked up to the, the wifi as well. [S2] Perfect. [S1] It was beautiful. [S2] That is ingenuity. [S1] So, there is a Facebook group called Bojack Horseman. What do they know? Do they know things? Let's find out. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] First, I wanted to know if you actually knew that this group existed. There's about 15,000 to 20,000 obsessive fans. [S2] Um,
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[S1] They were both pretty good. And then I wrote a third one that was like not very good and I didn't show it to anybody. Um, and then eventually based on those scripts, I started getting meetings with people and I started, uh, getting some experience and I, I learned how to do it. I mean, I think the only way to, to do any creative pursuit is to dive in and start trying. [S2] Do you remember the moment you stopped feeling like an amateur? [S1] No, it hasn't happened yet. [S2] [LAUGHS]
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[S1] And I was like, "How did she know?" [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] I don't know. She figured it out. So she kind of like, I think maybe 'cause she was that connected to the character, she kind of realized like, "Okay, yeah, we're, we're going there now." Um, so she, she knew it was coming. And then, you know, I, I think luckily that last episode she's in, she gets to do so much. And it's such a, a wonderful, um,
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[S1] It sounds, uh, conceited to say, but a, a gift to an actress in a way. You know, that, like, we kinda want it to be like, okay, this is your last episode, but let's really give you a lot to do. Um, and so I think she was really appreciative of that and that she got to go out with such a, such a banger episode. Um, and now she got nominated for an Emmy for it, so she can't complain to me anymore. [S2] [LAUGHS] [S1] Um, and, but she's, I mean, she's delightful. She was, uh,
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