qid int64 1 74.7M | question stringlengths 12 33.8k | date stringlengths 10 10 | metadata list | response_j stringlengths 0 115k | response_k stringlengths 2 98.3k |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
381,134 | How can I test my website in multiple versions of firefox?
I have v2 installed. Now no matter where or how many times I install FF3, it always executes ff2..
I checked the interweb and it seems there used to be a MultiFireFox tool that could run several versions. It was for apple and I'm on windows. Furthermore all the links to it are dead.
I also found an option I could add to the executable. But since I cannot start FF3 to begin with, I reckon this doesn't make much sence.
Something like [MultipleIE](http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE) would be great.
Suggestions? | 2008/12/19 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/381134",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/11333/"
] | What you need to do is set up two profiles, one for Firefox3 and on for Firefox 2. It's a pretty simple process; I've got them both running and I love it!
[Here's one way to set up two profiles](http://blog.codefront.net/2007/08/20/how-to-have-firefox-3-and-firefox-2-running-at-the-same-time/) | If you just have to check standalone pages (i.e not part of a flow), you can test your pages online with Browsershots - <http://browsershots.org/>
Browsershots is a free open-source online service that takes a URL & as per your choosing, checks it on a variety of browsers, different versions of each and on different Operating systems. |
381,134 | How can I test my website in multiple versions of firefox?
I have v2 installed. Now no matter where or how many times I install FF3, it always executes ff2..
I checked the interweb and it seems there used to be a MultiFireFox tool that could run several versions. It was for apple and I'm on windows. Furthermore all the links to it are dead.
I also found an option I could add to the executable. But since I cannot start FF3 to begin with, I reckon this doesn't make much sence.
Something like [MultipleIE](http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE) would be great.
Suggestions? | 2008/12/19 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/381134",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/11333/"
] | You might try setting up a few virtual machines, and installing different browser versions on each.
Ex:
* VM1 - IE6, FF1
* VM2 - IE7, FF2
* VM3 - IE8B, FF3
etc. | If you just have to check standalone pages (i.e not part of a flow), you can test your pages online with Browsershots - <http://browsershots.org/>
Browsershots is a free open-source online service that takes a URL & as per your choosing, checks it on a variety of browsers, different versions of each and on different Operating systems. |
844,183 | Most hard drives have a set of pins next to the pata or sata port to place jumpers to do things such as designating it a slave or master. What is the name of those set of other pins? Hard drives are a common place to see them, but they also appear on motherboards, and even other consumer electronics, such as a television set or television remote. I've always just called them "the pins where you put the jumpers." Do they have a proper name?
EDIT: I realize that they are physically the same as a header, but since a header is used to attach a new component, I would not consider it to be a header since jumpers are not a new component being attached. | 2014/11/24 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/844183",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/308820/"
] | While they are the same physical part as a [header](http://www.technobotsonline.com/connectors-and-headers/pcb-headers-and-jumper.html), generally with PCs 'headers' are pins you attach leads to. Say, the HDD LED or the Power Switch leads.
Pins specific to jumpers are refered to as "Jumper Pins" and are arranged into "Jumper Blocks".
* [A reference](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumper_(computing)#Design)
* [Another](http://www.techterms.com/definition/jumper) | They're just called "[headers](http://www.technobotsonline.com/connectors-and-headers/pcb-headers-and-jumper.html)". |
844,183 | Most hard drives have a set of pins next to the pata or sata port to place jumpers to do things such as designating it a slave or master. What is the name of those set of other pins? Hard drives are a common place to see them, but they also appear on motherboards, and even other consumer electronics, such as a television set or television remote. I've always just called them "the pins where you put the jumpers." Do they have a proper name?
EDIT: I realize that they are physically the same as a header, but since a header is used to attach a new component, I would not consider it to be a header since jumpers are not a new component being attached. | 2014/11/24 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/844183",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/308820/"
] | They're just called "[headers](http://www.technobotsonline.com/connectors-and-headers/pcb-headers-and-jumper.html)". | I'd probably call them "connectors".
But I wouldn't stress too much about the semantics, I have heard IT professionals use every one of these terms at some time or another. |
844,183 | Most hard drives have a set of pins next to the pata or sata port to place jumpers to do things such as designating it a slave or master. What is the name of those set of other pins? Hard drives are a common place to see them, but they also appear on motherboards, and even other consumer electronics, such as a television set or television remote. I've always just called them "the pins where you put the jumpers." Do they have a proper name?
EDIT: I realize that they are physically the same as a header, but since a header is used to attach a new component, I would not consider it to be a header since jumpers are not a new component being attached. | 2014/11/24 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/844183",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/308820/"
] | While they are the same physical part as a [header](http://www.technobotsonline.com/connectors-and-headers/pcb-headers-and-jumper.html), generally with PCs 'headers' are pins you attach leads to. Say, the HDD LED or the Power Switch leads.
Pins specific to jumpers are refered to as "Jumper Pins" and are arranged into "Jumper Blocks".
* [A reference](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumper_(computing)#Design)
* [Another](http://www.techterms.com/definition/jumper) | I'd probably call them "connectors".
But I wouldn't stress too much about the semantics, I have heard IT professionals use every one of these terms at some time or another. |
387,237 | I have a question regarding the behaviour of a MCU's GPIO pins when configured in a certain way in hardware and software. In this case I am using a dsPIC33EP, but I believe this question is generally applicable to MCUs with push/pull outputs. At certain points in the circuit I am developing I need a pull-up resistor on the line to ensure that the connected chip has a hardware default state (in this case HIGH) even when the PIC has been turned OFF. If I pull up this line to a voltage equal to or greater than the power supply of the PIC (3.3V) but the PIC outputs a HIGH at slightly-below whatever this voltage level is... what happens to the output of the PIC?
I am using a 5V-tolerant pin on the PIC, which in the electrical specifications guarantees that it will tolerate up to 3.6V when the PIC is off, so that is not an issue. What I am uncertain about is how the PIC handles a (small) over-voltage condition on an output through a pull-up resistor.
**If Vp is greater than VOH, will there be damage done to the chip?**
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/W1Iwa.png)
On a side note, I have considered some solutions to this problem and will likely set up these outputs in software to behave as open-drain types. My question is regarding the feasibility of doing it using PUSH-PULL outputs, but if anyone has any other simple solutions to offer for application's sake, please feel free! | 2018/07/23 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/387237",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/192474/"
] | >
> Is this to say that the IC's outputs should have a separate ground to
> the IC's power supply (VDD)? If so, how is this possible when all components operate from the same supply?
>
>
>
I suppose your referring to this:
>
> Separate grounding for analog and digital portions of circuitry is one
> of the simplest and most-effective methods of noise suppression. One
> or more layers on multilayer PCBs are usually devoted to ground
> planes. A ground plane helps distribute heat and reduces EMI noise
> pickup. Make sure to physically separate digital and analog grounds,
> paying attention to the flow of the ground current.
>
>
>
The current will return back to the source (usually the ground pin of the cable tied to the power supply ground). In the DC world this usually means the shortest path (assuming resistance of the ground plane is equal and the plane is continuous). In the AC world this means the lowest impedance path, which usually means the return current will follow the trace that is carrying the AC signal because of mutual inductance.
Regardless, if a return current crosses through an analog subsection, it will show up as a (usually small) voltage. This voltage offset will cause noise in an analog subsection.
The best thing (in my experience) is to find where the return current is going and orient the analog subsection so currents do not cross through it. This allows you to maintain a simple grounding system, with a continuous ground plane.
Another way to do it is with slots in the board:
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/d2IOq.png)
Source: [Staying well grounded](http://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/staying-well-grounded.html)
A problem with slots is they turn the PCB into a dipole antenna, and if the design needs to be FCC compliant, it may fail.
Another way is to isolate the grounds with digital isolation, and or a star ground. Both of which I wouldn't recommend. | Separating analog and digital ground planes is good practice and helps reduce noise. Its not true that all components must operate from the same supply. Infact, you can have separate power supplies for the digital and analog circuitry. They may be supplied from the same source originally, but filtered as not to interfere with each other.
Here is an example of this: <https://m.eet.com/media/1049897/C0130-Figure3.gif> |
387,237 | I have a question regarding the behaviour of a MCU's GPIO pins when configured in a certain way in hardware and software. In this case I am using a dsPIC33EP, but I believe this question is generally applicable to MCUs with push/pull outputs. At certain points in the circuit I am developing I need a pull-up resistor on the line to ensure that the connected chip has a hardware default state (in this case HIGH) even when the PIC has been turned OFF. If I pull up this line to a voltage equal to or greater than the power supply of the PIC (3.3V) but the PIC outputs a HIGH at slightly-below whatever this voltage level is... what happens to the output of the PIC?
I am using a 5V-tolerant pin on the PIC, which in the electrical specifications guarantees that it will tolerate up to 3.6V when the PIC is off, so that is not an issue. What I am uncertain about is how the PIC handles a (small) over-voltage condition on an output through a pull-up resistor.
**If Vp is greater than VOH, will there be damage done to the chip?**
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/W1Iwa.png)
On a side note, I have considered some solutions to this problem and will likely set up these outputs in software to behave as open-drain types. My question is regarding the feasibility of doing it using PUSH-PULL outputs, but if anyone has any other simple solutions to offer for application's sake, please feel free! | 2018/07/23 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/387237",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/192474/"
] | >
> Is this to say that the IC's outputs should have a separate ground to the IC's power supply (VDD)?
>
>
>
Ground separation does not mean to "have a separate ground to the IC's power supply". The method is a good PCB layout techniques and involves separation of AGND and PGND on the board into two separate ground planes **connected to each other at one point**. Where AGND is signal ground and PGND is the ground connection over which higher pulsed currents flow.
These connections can be: **single point** (series or parallel), **multi point** (for high frequency or low frequency signals),etc . These ground connections are selected based on frequency and noise.
The datasheet suggests you to use an approach like in this picture:
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/7aqfG.png)
Also, the separation should be maintained across whole PCB and to not cross sensitive analog section with noisy digital ground.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/LAEtM.png) | Separating analog and digital ground planes is good practice and helps reduce noise. Its not true that all components must operate from the same supply. Infact, you can have separate power supplies for the digital and analog circuitry. They may be supplied from the same source originally, but filtered as not to interfere with each other.
Here is an example of this: <https://m.eet.com/media/1049897/C0130-Figure3.gif> |
54,479 | [Kasmina, Enigma Sage](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/196/kasmina-enigma-sage) has recently been spoiled. Her static ability reads:
>
> Each other planeswalker you control has the loyalty abilities of Kasmina, Enigma Sage.
>
>
>
I assume the intention is to give your other Planeswalkers additional abilities, but the way it's worded it sounds like the abilities are replaced instead.
Usually cards specify when abilities are gained in addition, for example on [Lazav, the Multifarious](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=452934). Or does that wording only apply to clone-effects?
**Question: Does Kasmina, Enigma Sage's static ability add or replace Planeswalker abilites?** | 2021/03/23 | [
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/54479",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/24526/"
] | The card found by Scheming Symmetry will be one of those looked at.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Spells and abilities in Magic the Gathering are atomic - once they start to resolve, they need to fully resolve before anything else happens. Psychic Surgery will see the shuffle, and the ability from it will trigger, but triggers do not get put on the stack as soon as they happen, they are put onto the stack the next time a player would get priority per [rules 603.2 and 603.3 in the Comprehensive Rules](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Triggered_ability) (emphasis mine):
>
> **603.2** Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. **The ability doesn’t do anything at this point.**
>
>
>
>
> **603.3** Once an ability has triggered, **its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the next time a player would receive priority.** See rule 117, “Timing and Priority.” The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.
>
>
>
This means this is how the events will happen:
1. Scheming Symmetry (SS) is cast, targeting two players.
2. All players pass priority, SS begins to resolve.
3. Both targeted players search their libraries for a card.
4. Both targeted players shuffle their libraries, except for the found card.
5. Psychic Surgery (PS) notes that it has been triggered at least once (twice if SS targeted two of your opponents in a multiplayer game). PS does nothing yet.
6. Both players place their found card on top of the newly shuffled library, SS finishes resolving.
7. Active player would receive priority again, because PS has triggered, the PS triggers are placed on the stack.
8. All players pass priority and the (first) PS trigger beings to resolve, allowing you to look at the found card and one other card from the top of the library.
With Psychic Surgery on the battlefield, a smart player will search for some middle ground card in their deck, anything too good will mean it gets exiled, anything too mediocre means that will be their next draw as the other card gets exiled.
---
Note, where I say "all players pass priority at steps 2 and 8, players can cast instants or use instant speed abilities. Unless one of those is a counter like [Stifle](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bStifle%5d), or an end the turn effect the Psychic Surgery will resolve eventually. A player could cast or use an ability that will make them draw the card they searched for before psychic surgery resolves, something like [Brainstorm](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bBrainstorm%5d), but it will be more common that they can't do that in time. | You will exile the card after the entire other spell/ability has finish resolving, including putting the card on top.
When an ability triggers, it has to go on the stack and wait to resolve; and that doesn't happen until a player is gaining priority.
>
> 603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. **The ability doesn’t do anything at this point**.
>
>
>
>
> 603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card **the next time a player would receive priority**.
>
>
>
So [Psychic Surgery](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bPsychic%20Surgery%5d) will trigger as soon as your opponent shuffles from [Scheming Symmetry](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bScheming%20Symmetry%5d), but it won't actually go on the stack until they completely finish resolving it. |
12,116 | That tiny little arc-reactor, that damage to his body, that was as much a part of him being Iron Man as his motivations to escape his prison. Yet, it was simply just thrown-in like some sort of additional info, which seemed to bother me. I would have liked to see more development that just "op, i'm gonna get fixed too!"
Is this an honest "why would you do this?" question or do I simply care more than most?
EDIT:
This is a question of why if was barely covered in the film, not why it happened. | 2013/06/21 | [
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/12116",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com",
"https://movies.stackexchange.com/users/5203/"
] | The idea is that Iron Man 3 closes a major chapter, or set of chapters, of Tony Starks life. This chapter started when he was first taken hostage and the shrapnel was embedded in his body.
One of the themes of this movie is dependence. Tony has been dependent on the suit, on the reactor in his chest, for a long time. After all of the events in IM1, 2, Avengers, and IM3, Tony has finally learned that he's no longer dependent on the suits. To show this to Pepper he destroyed all of the suits he created. He also finally had the peace of mind to remove the shrapnel, the one thing that made him dependent on the core in his chest. | At the close of the movie 'Pepper' Potts is safe yet the question remains: **how on Earth can we undo the effects of the Extremis virus?** Suitably motivated to engage with the Extremis biology, at last, Stark makes it the focus of the coming months to save 'Pepper' and restore her to 'normality'. At some point it occurs to him that there would be a symmetry in also restoring himself to 'normality', completing the journey of redefining himself without the dependency on the Iron Man technology. Perhaps he is also inspired by Pepper's courage in submitting to experimental treatment to reverse Extremis and goes under the knife himself.
The narrative emphasis here is on Pepper and Tony - together - being rid of the biological aberrations that have made them superhuman yet unable to live as whole people, and then moving on together. This, I think, is why Tony's surgical procedure gets only a brief viewing as the movie wraps up. |
343,864 | For reference: I am incredibly new to electronics.
The attached photo is of a cable that connects two halves of a split keyboard I just bought. My hope was that this cable would have been 4 wires or something which I would have been able to desolder it to extend the cable length. But instead I find this 20 wire cable connecting both halves with the connector on the end.
So now I am thinking maybe this may be a standard type connector and a standard type of cable I may be able to find online instead of having to do a bunch of soldering with very tiny wires. Any thoughts on how to proceed? Maybe where to find that type of connector and a 20 strand cable in the 2 metre range?
Thanks
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/H7AKE.jpg) | 2017/12/07 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/343864",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/171248/"
] | It's difficult to tell, but your encoder may be a simple contacting type. I tore one of these down - as pictured.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/ltsSo.jpg)
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/pM384.jpg)
It should be possible to clean this without stripping it down, using WD-40 or similar. (On the other hand, if it's an optical type, WD-40 may dissolve the optical pattern!) Good luck! | Answering my own question just to share the experience with people who might come across the same problem since my mouse wheel now works perfectly.
Fixing (or rather) cleaning the rotary encoder turned up to be a very easy task. In fact, taking it out of the PCB was much more challenging than cleaning it (and a little harder than I was expecting).
After removing it, I opened the metal tabs that hold everything together using a small straight screwdriver. I found that it opens up much neater if you hold it so its side is against the desk. This way, you can over-bend it because it will hit the desk when it's exactly straight.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/yuKGH.jpg)
Just like hernos said in his comment (Thanks hernos!), it was a simple mechanical encoder, so I felt it was safe to clean it with IPA and a small brush.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/S9Lff.jpg)
I used plenty of IPA, until everything was fully wet with it and not only did it dissolve the dirt, it also seemed to collect the dirt inside the pool of IPA on the desk under it.
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/TK87t.jpg)
The dirt was consisted mainly of really thin bits of hair, so I doubt if spraying contact cleaner of WD40 would have worked as well without opening the encoder because the dirt would be stuck in there.
Finally, I put it back together and cleaned its legs from the old solder and re-tinned them before soldering it back to the PCB. |
40,590 | I have a Raspberry Pi with Window 10 IoT running on it. What I want is to get access to the Raspberry Pi as soon as somebody connects the device, via Ethernet, to the internet.
So what I am imagining is, if I connect the Pi, for example, to my internet router at home, an application on the Pi will send me information about the network or IP address. Is it now possible to get access to the device from anywhere? What is the general way to do something like that? | 2016/01/05 | [
"https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/40590",
"https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com",
"https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/users/39307/"
] | This a generic network question, that applies to any device inside a private LAN with desired public external access.
You have a few options, depending if this is for private or commercial grade use.
* Manually do '*port forwarding*' on your router, sometimes referred as '*Nat/gaming*', '*pin hole*' and others: you need a fix/static LAN **ip** for
your RPidevice; this config is highly router/vendor dependent.
* [upnp](http://elinux.org/UPnP) (Linux)
* [Portmapper](https://github.com/kaklakariada/portmapper) (Linux)
* Third party cloud service, with a published **ip address** (very off topic): your device 'publish' on a known location and your
clients access a known place.
On either case, you will need to [find](http://www.myipnumber.com/) (and track) your router's **public ip address**, often randomly changed by your vendor.
Notification when someone connect the device to the internet is a complete different story.... | You could implement UPnP. Universal Plug and Play. The protocol basically does a multicast NOTIFY on power up of your device, and does occasional 'keep alive' multi-casts. You can run another process on PCs that you want to 'Listen' for your device, or even search for your device.
When your device announces itself, your devices can immediately see it and communicate with it through the UPnP protocol, or via direct TCP communications as soon as they know about your device and what port to listen on.
UPnP basically allows your device to send a NOTIFY that announces an IP Address and port for your device, along with information about your device and what its capabilities are.
[Here](http://www.upnp-hacks.org/upnp.html) is a link to some general UPnP information. |
40,590 | I have a Raspberry Pi with Window 10 IoT running on it. What I want is to get access to the Raspberry Pi as soon as somebody connects the device, via Ethernet, to the internet.
So what I am imagining is, if I connect the Pi, for example, to my internet router at home, an application on the Pi will send me information about the network or IP address. Is it now possible to get access to the device from anywhere? What is the general way to do something like that? | 2016/01/05 | [
"https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/40590",
"https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com",
"https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/users/39307/"
] | This a generic network question, that applies to any device inside a private LAN with desired public external access.
You have a few options, depending if this is for private or commercial grade use.
* Manually do '*port forwarding*' on your router, sometimes referred as '*Nat/gaming*', '*pin hole*' and others: you need a fix/static LAN **ip** for
your RPidevice; this config is highly router/vendor dependent.
* [upnp](http://elinux.org/UPnP) (Linux)
* [Portmapper](https://github.com/kaklakariada/portmapper) (Linux)
* Third party cloud service, with a published **ip address** (very off topic): your device 'publish' on a known location and your
clients access a known place.
On either case, you will need to [find](http://www.myipnumber.com/) (and track) your router's **public ip address**, often randomly changed by your vendor.
Notification when someone connect the device to the internet is a complete different story.... | I think that at the moment the only way to interact is to use some protocol publish/subscribe like pubnub/freeboard. I hope microsoft release some app for android / ios or WebServer inside Win 10 iot to interact with any devices. Win Iot remote client (awesome) work only with win10 devices. |
4,216 | This question is with reference to this bounty question:
* [How do I theme the Sound Menu playback buttons?](https://askubuntu.com/questions/187900/how-do-i-theme-the-sound-menu-playback-buttons#comment246344_187900)
As the OP has indicated, this is technically a bug - there is a launchpad bug-report, confirmation that it is a bug and in this case it looks like a possible workaround by moving to Quantal.
The question itself refers to Ubuntu 12.04 where the bug-applies.
Moderators nor senior community members cannot close and mark this question as *off-topic* since it has a bounty on it.
Moderators can refund the bounty and then close if required.
As a general policy, how does the Ask Ubuntu community wish to deal with this and similar situations in the future. Should these "bounty-bug" questions remain open? Maybe leave open until the question is resolved or bounty period expires?
How should we deal with this situation? | 2012/10/08 | [
"https://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/4216",
"https://meta.askubuntu.com",
"https://meta.askubuntu.com/users/14356/"
] | Like all bug-related questions, I suggest we close them. Just because it was bountied doesn't make it any different from other bug questions and hence, we should refund the bounty and close it as off-topic.
Given the nature that it is a bug, I don't see how the question would be resolved if it were left open. Waiting for the bounty period to expire sounds too evil IMO, especially when we know for sure that there already is a confirmed bug report regarding the question. | I put the information that it was a bug in an [answer](https://askubuntu.com/questions/796836/problems-with-disk-layout-configurations-mate-16-04-64bit/810666#810666) since it wouldn't allow me to vote to close and flagged it for moderator attention (prior to finding this Q&A). I did both hoping to cover all the bases. Providing the OP with the information required while hopefully following site guidelines. |
70,723 | The Player's Handbook describes the shield as being wielded in one hand.
However, the Armor category that displays the times to put on armor lists the shield is something that you don, and it takes one action to do so. Under this interpretation, can you even be disarmed of your shield, very much the way you *cannot* be disarmed of your armor? | 2015/11/04 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70723",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/25690/"
] | Impossible to say
=================
We have, effectively, three points of information. First,
* the entry on the disarm variant rule states that
>
> A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target's grasp.
>
>
>
and the entry on the battlemaster’s *disarming attack* lets you
>
> When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can [...force...] it to drop one item of your choice that it's holding.
>
>
>
So the question becomes whether or not a shield is an item that you “hold” or is in your “grasp.” To answer that, we have two more points to consider:
* The entry on shields says
>
> A shield [...] is carried in one hand.
>
>
>
* While weapons don’t usually require an action to draw, as the Use an Object action states that
>
> You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack.
>
>
>
shields instead require their own separate action to “don,” as indicated by the “donning and doffing armor” table on page 146.
These last two *imply but do not state* completely opposite answers to the question of whether or not a shield is a held item that can be disarmed. Neither one of them explicitly or conclusively says one way or the other, but “carried in one hand” suggests that the shield is merely held, while “donning” and taking extra time to do so implies that the shield is strapped on.
We do not have enough information to definitively state an answer one way or the other. | Yes, shields can be disarmed. There are only two methods of disarming in the game at present - the variant rule in the DMG, and the Battlemaster Fighter's Disarming Attack. Both of these can disarm someone of a shield. The variant rule in the DMG says:
>
> **Disarm**
>
>
> A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target's grasp. The attacker makes an attack roll contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) check or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If the attacker wins the contest, the attack causes no damage or other ill effect, but the defender drops the item.
>
>
> The attacker has disadvantage on its attack roll if the target is holding the item with two or more hands. The target has advantage on its ability check if it is larger than the attacking creature, or disadvantage if it is smaller.
>
>
>
This allows you to disarm someone of any "item" they have in their grasp. I should emphasize, though, that this is a variant rule from the DMG, and as such is only included if the DM specifically chooses to allow it.
For reference, the entry on shields says:
>
> A shield is made from wood or metal and is
> carried in one hand.
>
>
>
Shields are definitely "items", and carrying something in one hand is synonymous with having it in your grasp, so yes, shields can be disarmed this way. As for the Battlemaster Fighter's Disarming Attack, it says:
>
> ***Disarming Attack.*** When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to disarm the target, forcing it to drop one item of your choice that it's holding. You add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll, and the target must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, it drops the object you choose. The object lands at its feet.
>
>
>
This allows you to disarm a target of an item that it's holding. Holding is again synonymous with carrying in one hand, so this, too, can disarm someone of a shield. |
70,723 | The Player's Handbook describes the shield as being wielded in one hand.
However, the Armor category that displays the times to put on armor lists the shield is something that you don, and it takes one action to do so. Under this interpretation, can you even be disarmed of your shield, very much the way you *cannot* be disarmed of your armor? | 2015/11/04 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70723",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/25690/"
] | Yes, shields can be disarmed. There are only two methods of disarming in the game at present - the variant rule in the DMG, and the Battlemaster Fighter's Disarming Attack. Both of these can disarm someone of a shield. The variant rule in the DMG says:
>
> **Disarm**
>
>
> A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target's grasp. The attacker makes an attack roll contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) check or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If the attacker wins the contest, the attack causes no damage or other ill effect, but the defender drops the item.
>
>
> The attacker has disadvantage on its attack roll if the target is holding the item with two or more hands. The target has advantage on its ability check if it is larger than the attacking creature, or disadvantage if it is smaller.
>
>
>
This allows you to disarm someone of any "item" they have in their grasp. I should emphasize, though, that this is a variant rule from the DMG, and as such is only included if the DM specifically chooses to allow it.
For reference, the entry on shields says:
>
> A shield is made from wood or metal and is
> carried in one hand.
>
>
>
Shields are definitely "items", and carrying something in one hand is synonymous with having it in your grasp, so yes, shields can be disarmed this way. As for the Battlemaster Fighter's Disarming Attack, it says:
>
> ***Disarming Attack.*** When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to disarm the target, forcing it to drop one item of your choice that it's holding. You add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll, and the target must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, it drops the object you choose. The object lands at its feet.
>
>
>
This allows you to disarm a target of an item that it's holding. Holding is again synonymous with carrying in one hand, so this, too, can disarm someone of a shield. | I think it can be disarmed. Disarm doesn't mean flipping with a sword or something. There could be more than one ways to "Disarm" a weapon or shield.
Some explained here, that shield can be donned by strapping it to your arm. Well, then you can disarm it by cutting the straps with your weapon, for example.
Or when you think about it, you could overpower your opponent and just get it from his hands.. etc.. |
70,723 | The Player's Handbook describes the shield as being wielded in one hand.
However, the Armor category that displays the times to put on armor lists the shield is something that you don, and it takes one action to do so. Under this interpretation, can you even be disarmed of your shield, very much the way you *cannot* be disarmed of your armor? | 2015/11/04 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70723",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/25690/"
] | Yes, shields can be disarmed. There are only two methods of disarming in the game at present - the variant rule in the DMG, and the Battlemaster Fighter's Disarming Attack. Both of these can disarm someone of a shield. The variant rule in the DMG says:
>
> **Disarm**
>
>
> A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target's grasp. The attacker makes an attack roll contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) check or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If the attacker wins the contest, the attack causes no damage or other ill effect, but the defender drops the item.
>
>
> The attacker has disadvantage on its attack roll if the target is holding the item with two or more hands. The target has advantage on its ability check if it is larger than the attacking creature, or disadvantage if it is smaller.
>
>
>
This allows you to disarm someone of any "item" they have in their grasp. I should emphasize, though, that this is a variant rule from the DMG, and as such is only included if the DM specifically chooses to allow it.
For reference, the entry on shields says:
>
> A shield is made from wood or metal and is
> carried in one hand.
>
>
>
Shields are definitely "items", and carrying something in one hand is synonymous with having it in your grasp, so yes, shields can be disarmed this way. As for the Battlemaster Fighter's Disarming Attack, it says:
>
> ***Disarming Attack.*** When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to disarm the target, forcing it to drop one item of your choice that it's holding. You add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll, and the target must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, it drops the object you choose. The object lands at its feet.
>
>
>
This allows you to disarm a target of an item that it's holding. Holding is again synonymous with carrying in one hand, so this, too, can disarm someone of a shield. | I thought I might chime in as I actually use a shield IRL. I would like to point out that a person *can* be disarmed of their shield while still wearing it.
A shield as stated above is strapped to a person's arm and held by a handle to stabilize it and keep it from flopping about uselessly. This is how you disarm someone: you get them to release the handle through pain or breakage, and it flops around, sliding down the arm (note the shape of your arm), and becomes a hindrance to regrab or drop as it never comes off quickly. This, in effect, disarms the shield.
That being said, it is very difficult to disarm a person of their shield, as their hand is, well, behind a shield. |
70,723 | The Player's Handbook describes the shield as being wielded in one hand.
However, the Armor category that displays the times to put on armor lists the shield is something that you don, and it takes one action to do so. Under this interpretation, can you even be disarmed of your shield, very much the way you *cannot* be disarmed of your armor? | 2015/11/04 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70723",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/25690/"
] | Yes, shields can be disarmed. There are only two methods of disarming in the game at present - the variant rule in the DMG, and the Battlemaster Fighter's Disarming Attack. Both of these can disarm someone of a shield. The variant rule in the DMG says:
>
> **Disarm**
>
>
> A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target's grasp. The attacker makes an attack roll contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) check or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If the attacker wins the contest, the attack causes no damage or other ill effect, but the defender drops the item.
>
>
> The attacker has disadvantage on its attack roll if the target is holding the item with two or more hands. The target has advantage on its ability check if it is larger than the attacking creature, or disadvantage if it is smaller.
>
>
>
This allows you to disarm someone of any "item" they have in their grasp. I should emphasize, though, that this is a variant rule from the DMG, and as such is only included if the DM specifically chooses to allow it.
For reference, the entry on shields says:
>
> A shield is made from wood or metal and is
> carried in one hand.
>
>
>
Shields are definitely "items", and carrying something in one hand is synonymous with having it in your grasp, so yes, shields can be disarmed this way. As for the Battlemaster Fighter's Disarming Attack, it says:
>
> ***Disarming Attack.*** When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to disarm the target, forcing it to drop one item of your choice that it's holding. You add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll, and the target must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, it drops the object you choose. The object lands at its feet.
>
>
>
This allows you to disarm a target of an item that it's holding. Holding is again synonymous with carrying in one hand, so this, too, can disarm someone of a shield. | The [Sage Advice Compendium v. 2.5](https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf#page=4) says:
>
> [NEW] **Can the Disarming Attack maneuver disarm a creature of a shield it has donned?**
>
> No. Disarming Attack forces a creature to drop an object it is holding. Donned shields aren’t merely held.
>
>
> |
70,723 | The Player's Handbook describes the shield as being wielded in one hand.
However, the Armor category that displays the times to put on armor lists the shield is something that you don, and it takes one action to do so. Under this interpretation, can you even be disarmed of your shield, very much the way you *cannot* be disarmed of your armor? | 2015/11/04 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70723",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/25690/"
] | Impossible to say
=================
We have, effectively, three points of information. First,
* the entry on the disarm variant rule states that
>
> A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target's grasp.
>
>
>
and the entry on the battlemaster’s *disarming attack* lets you
>
> When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can [...force...] it to drop one item of your choice that it's holding.
>
>
>
So the question becomes whether or not a shield is an item that you “hold” or is in your “grasp.” To answer that, we have two more points to consider:
* The entry on shields says
>
> A shield [...] is carried in one hand.
>
>
>
* While weapons don’t usually require an action to draw, as the Use an Object action states that
>
> You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack.
>
>
>
shields instead require their own separate action to “don,” as indicated by the “donning and doffing armor” table on page 146.
These last two *imply but do not state* completely opposite answers to the question of whether or not a shield is a held item that can be disarmed. Neither one of them explicitly or conclusively says one way or the other, but “carried in one hand” suggests that the shield is merely held, while “donning” and taking extra time to do so implies that the shield is strapped on.
We do not have enough information to definitively state an answer one way or the other. | I think it can be disarmed. Disarm doesn't mean flipping with a sword or something. There could be more than one ways to "Disarm" a weapon or shield.
Some explained here, that shield can be donned by strapping it to your arm. Well, then you can disarm it by cutting the straps with your weapon, for example.
Or when you think about it, you could overpower your opponent and just get it from his hands.. etc.. |
70,723 | The Player's Handbook describes the shield as being wielded in one hand.
However, the Armor category that displays the times to put on armor lists the shield is something that you don, and it takes one action to do so. Under this interpretation, can you even be disarmed of your shield, very much the way you *cannot* be disarmed of your armor? | 2015/11/04 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70723",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/25690/"
] | Impossible to say
=================
We have, effectively, three points of information. First,
* the entry on the disarm variant rule states that
>
> A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target's grasp.
>
>
>
and the entry on the battlemaster’s *disarming attack* lets you
>
> When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can [...force...] it to drop one item of your choice that it's holding.
>
>
>
So the question becomes whether or not a shield is an item that you “hold” or is in your “grasp.” To answer that, we have two more points to consider:
* The entry on shields says
>
> A shield [...] is carried in one hand.
>
>
>
* While weapons don’t usually require an action to draw, as the Use an Object action states that
>
> You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack.
>
>
>
shields instead require their own separate action to “don,” as indicated by the “donning and doffing armor” table on page 146.
These last two *imply but do not state* completely opposite answers to the question of whether or not a shield is a held item that can be disarmed. Neither one of them explicitly or conclusively says one way or the other, but “carried in one hand” suggests that the shield is merely held, while “donning” and taking extra time to do so implies that the shield is strapped on.
We do not have enough information to definitively state an answer one way or the other. | I thought I might chime in as I actually use a shield IRL. I would like to point out that a person *can* be disarmed of their shield while still wearing it.
A shield as stated above is strapped to a person's arm and held by a handle to stabilize it and keep it from flopping about uselessly. This is how you disarm someone: you get them to release the handle through pain or breakage, and it flops around, sliding down the arm (note the shape of your arm), and becomes a hindrance to regrab or drop as it never comes off quickly. This, in effect, disarms the shield.
That being said, it is very difficult to disarm a person of their shield, as their hand is, well, behind a shield. |
70,723 | The Player's Handbook describes the shield as being wielded in one hand.
However, the Armor category that displays the times to put on armor lists the shield is something that you don, and it takes one action to do so. Under this interpretation, can you even be disarmed of your shield, very much the way you *cannot* be disarmed of your armor? | 2015/11/04 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70723",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/25690/"
] | Impossible to say
=================
We have, effectively, three points of information. First,
* the entry on the disarm variant rule states that
>
> A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target's grasp.
>
>
>
and the entry on the battlemaster’s *disarming attack* lets you
>
> When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can [...force...] it to drop one item of your choice that it's holding.
>
>
>
So the question becomes whether or not a shield is an item that you “hold” or is in your “grasp.” To answer that, we have two more points to consider:
* The entry on shields says
>
> A shield [...] is carried in one hand.
>
>
>
* While weapons don’t usually require an action to draw, as the Use an Object action states that
>
> You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack.
>
>
>
shields instead require their own separate action to “don,” as indicated by the “donning and doffing armor” table on page 146.
These last two *imply but do not state* completely opposite answers to the question of whether or not a shield is a held item that can be disarmed. Neither one of them explicitly or conclusively says one way or the other, but “carried in one hand” suggests that the shield is merely held, while “donning” and taking extra time to do so implies that the shield is strapped on.
We do not have enough information to definitively state an answer one way or the other. | The [Sage Advice Compendium v. 2.5](https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf#page=4) says:
>
> [NEW] **Can the Disarming Attack maneuver disarm a creature of a shield it has donned?**
>
> No. Disarming Attack forces a creature to drop an object it is holding. Donned shields aren’t merely held.
>
>
> |
70,723 | The Player's Handbook describes the shield as being wielded in one hand.
However, the Armor category that displays the times to put on armor lists the shield is something that you don, and it takes one action to do so. Under this interpretation, can you even be disarmed of your shield, very much the way you *cannot* be disarmed of your armor? | 2015/11/04 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70723",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/25690/"
] | I thought I might chime in as I actually use a shield IRL. I would like to point out that a person *can* be disarmed of their shield while still wearing it.
A shield as stated above is strapped to a person's arm and held by a handle to stabilize it and keep it from flopping about uselessly. This is how you disarm someone: you get them to release the handle through pain or breakage, and it flops around, sliding down the arm (note the shape of your arm), and becomes a hindrance to regrab or drop as it never comes off quickly. This, in effect, disarms the shield.
That being said, it is very difficult to disarm a person of their shield, as their hand is, well, behind a shield. | I think it can be disarmed. Disarm doesn't mean flipping with a sword or something. There could be more than one ways to "Disarm" a weapon or shield.
Some explained here, that shield can be donned by strapping it to your arm. Well, then you can disarm it by cutting the straps with your weapon, for example.
Or when you think about it, you could overpower your opponent and just get it from his hands.. etc.. |
70,723 | The Player's Handbook describes the shield as being wielded in one hand.
However, the Armor category that displays the times to put on armor lists the shield is something that you don, and it takes one action to do so. Under this interpretation, can you even be disarmed of your shield, very much the way you *cannot* be disarmed of your armor? | 2015/11/04 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70723",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/25690/"
] | The [Sage Advice Compendium v. 2.5](https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf#page=4) says:
>
> [NEW] **Can the Disarming Attack maneuver disarm a creature of a shield it has donned?**
>
> No. Disarming Attack forces a creature to drop an object it is holding. Donned shields aren’t merely held.
>
>
> | I think it can be disarmed. Disarm doesn't mean flipping with a sword or something. There could be more than one ways to "Disarm" a weapon or shield.
Some explained here, that shield can be donned by strapping it to your arm. Well, then you can disarm it by cutting the straps with your weapon, for example.
Or when you think about it, you could overpower your opponent and just get it from his hands.. etc.. |
70,723 | The Player's Handbook describes the shield as being wielded in one hand.
However, the Armor category that displays the times to put on armor lists the shield is something that you don, and it takes one action to do so. Under this interpretation, can you even be disarmed of your shield, very much the way you *cannot* be disarmed of your armor? | 2015/11/04 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/70723",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/25690/"
] | I thought I might chime in as I actually use a shield IRL. I would like to point out that a person *can* be disarmed of their shield while still wearing it.
A shield as stated above is strapped to a person's arm and held by a handle to stabilize it and keep it from flopping about uselessly. This is how you disarm someone: you get them to release the handle through pain or breakage, and it flops around, sliding down the arm (note the shape of your arm), and becomes a hindrance to regrab or drop as it never comes off quickly. This, in effect, disarms the shield.
That being said, it is very difficult to disarm a person of their shield, as their hand is, well, behind a shield. | The [Sage Advice Compendium v. 2.5](https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf#page=4) says:
>
> [NEW] **Can the Disarming Attack maneuver disarm a creature of a shield it has donned?**
>
> No. Disarming Attack forces a creature to drop an object it is holding. Donned shields aren’t merely held.
>
>
> |
710,129 | On a personal network (LAN) one can simply grab an [IP address](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address). If you choose the same IP address as an existing client, you get problems. There are companies like IANA and ICANN that are in charge of IP address bulks and sells them. But what stops you from just grabbing a random IP address? Is this built on trust? What if somebody were to grab an IP address and conflicting would occur. Is there any way of tracing that IP address to the location of the server using it?
Are companies that actually maintain the physical internet cables checking whether or not the clients connecting are using bought IP address blocks? | 2014/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/710129",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/108979/"
] | There is nothing preventing you from attaching a box configured with someone else's IP address to the internet. However, this won't necessarily cause any issues for anyone else but yourself.
If you steal someone else's IP address outside of the subnet that you are physically connected to, the only thing you will accomplish is not being able to receive any traffic as any router, behaving properly, is going to route traffic to the real owner of this IP address. You might be able to advertise false routes to whatever edge router is upstream from you in the hopes that they would get propagated further in the hopes of getting traffic routed to you based on your stolen IP address, but any marginally competent ISP/upstream provider would never accept routes from its non-enterprise consumers. As far as enterprise customers/other ISPs go, they are bound by specific rules about what routes they can advertise and use with their transit provider or peer, which are monitored 24/7 by Network Operations and Control Teams. Most also have rules about what routes they will accept as valid depending on who advertised them. In short, stealing someone's IP address outside the subnet you are connected to does nothing unless you can also manipulate the upstream routing tables.
That aside if you were to steal an IP address of someone in your same subnet, you would disrupt traffic of both the person who owns it and yourself. With any managed switch or router this will raise alarms as there is a duplicate address on the network and will likely lead to your connection getting blocked in some way. | Consider the analogy of your house address. One day you decide to change your address from "123 First Street" to "1600 Pennsylvania Avenue". What difference does it make outside your own property lines? None - because the rest of the world still behaves as if the physical location of your house didn't change, the name of your street didn't change, the city name didn't change, the zip code didn't change... you get the idea.
Mail, packages, and so on will be "routed" to your house based on its location in the address network of your community. The number of your house (computer), by itself, is only the last and final stop (network hop). Everything along the way has to agree, has to synchronize, and you only control the very end of the path.
You can number your house (or computer) anything you want, but for your network traffic to continue to flow you must do so in sync with your environment. To change your house address, you would have to change its number, AND get the bureaucracy to change the name of your street, AND change the name of your city, AND your zip code. Likewise, to change your IP address to something outside your allocated block, you would have to change its number, AND get your upstream provider to change your allocated block, AND change their routers to route that block to you, AND advertise that via BGP to their routing peers.
In both cases you are synchronizing your change with the outside world so the outside world knows how to find you. Otherwise, the effect is that network traffic can't find you anymore - and the only entity affected by your change of address is you. Which, architecturally speaking, is a good thing! |
710,129 | On a personal network (LAN) one can simply grab an [IP address](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address). If you choose the same IP address as an existing client, you get problems. There are companies like IANA and ICANN that are in charge of IP address bulks and sells them. But what stops you from just grabbing a random IP address? Is this built on trust? What if somebody were to grab an IP address and conflicting would occur. Is there any way of tracing that IP address to the location of the server using it?
Are companies that actually maintain the physical internet cables checking whether or not the clients connecting are using bought IP address blocks? | 2014/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/710129",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/108979/"
] | Similar to mpez0's answer, but I like a good car analogy...
I'm choosing the UK for this, since that's where I live. Imagine you live in a world where people follow road signs without question, and you happen to live right up in the north of Scotland, about as far from London as you can without crossing water. You live in a small town, and one day you decide that you're going to rename your town 'London' since that will obviously have the effect of driving more trade and tourism to your town, right? You even go to the trouble of updating the local road signs to reflect the new name of your town.
What actually happens? Well, you get lots of people from surrounding villages visiting your town following the signs and wondering why they're not in London. But apart from that, nothing changes. Why?
Consider someone who lives in the middle of England. They know that London is in the south, so when they get on the road to go to London, they follow the signs that say 'THE SOUTH' and keep going until the signs get more specific. In other words, *their* roadsigns still point to the real London. Their 'routing tables' haven't changed. The fact that your town has decided to change its name to London is inconsequential to them. Their local routes are not nearly specific enough to notice the change.
If you decide to change your IP address, routers elsewhere will not suddenly become aware of this fact. The roadsigns will not change. | "Could the ISP handle out ISP's it hasn't bought?"
Communication basically happens like this: PC to target machine (either a router or directly to the target - determined by the sending machine through a comparison of its IP address and it's subnet mask; if the target is not on the same subnet it is sent to the router for routing).
If a router receives a packet for routing it makes a similar decision based on all subnets it is directly connected too. It chooses which subnet to send the packet onwards through it's "routing table." Note: The routing table on the client machine was used in the first step - try CMD:"Route Print" on Windows.
At the last router in the process, the one with the target IP address on one of it's attached subnets, the router sends directly to the host via it's MAC address (possibly after RARP usage).
So, IP addresses are used to route between the routers and the routers have some way of knowing how to route based on limited sets of information. The routers share information dynamically about route changes (network subnet availability), but "they can do so in an authenticated way." I cannot comment on if authentication is enforced.
If an ISP 'releases' IP addresses to hosts via DHCP or any other means then the route table data must exist for successful two way communication. It would be trivial to identify a rogue ISP. Even if there was a trust approach happening at different levels censoring routing updates from the ISP would still be trivial. |
710,129 | On a personal network (LAN) one can simply grab an [IP address](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address). If you choose the same IP address as an existing client, you get problems. There are companies like IANA and ICANN that are in charge of IP address bulks and sells them. But what stops you from just grabbing a random IP address? Is this built on trust? What if somebody were to grab an IP address and conflicting would occur. Is there any way of tracing that IP address to the location of the server using it?
Are companies that actually maintain the physical internet cables checking whether or not the clients connecting are using bought IP address blocks? | 2014/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/710129",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/108979/"
] | If you are a ISP you can steal whole IP-Ranges.
The Providers and big company's and the like have so called [Autonomous Systemss](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_System_%28Internet%29) identified by "AS" and a 16-bit integer value.
This systems communicate with other systems. They need a protocol to tell the other systems which IPs they own and what other AS they are connected to, and also some "cost" for the connection.
Between AS, this is usually [BGP](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Gateway_Protocol).
Problem is, this is still mostly based on trust. If some provider announces that he now owns the IP-Space of Google and the cost is very low, all the other systems send traffic for google to this provider.
This has been done, e.g. with [Youtube](http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/industry-developments/youtube-hijacking-a-ripe-ncc-ris-case-study) in an attempt by Pakistanian officials to block it in Pakistan. There is still no real technical solution. This basically still works. Most providers switched from an automatic to an semi-automatic process, where they define some criteria on route changes announced by other providers when they have to be checked by an human. But the internet is just too big to check it all. So they have rules like "if the AS did something bad before, check manually".
So no, you as normal person cannot steal a IP. But if you a large enough provider, you can steal whole IP ranges for at least hours, if not days. If you just do this for very small subnets and try to reroute the traffic to the real target, you might even get away with a man in he middle attack without anyone ever noticing.
There is of course also a [wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_hijacking)!
If you want to play around, a good start is the [bgp info tool by hurricane electric.](http://bgp.he.net/)
There is also [a graphical tool.](https://stat.ripe.net/widget/bgplay) You can enter the AS-Number of your provider that the he site tells you there and view what peerings your provider uses. | You can "use" any IP address for the packets you send out, but the limitation is actually about packets that you'll receive.
"Buying" an IP address range means that a bunch of other people will configure their routers so that packets sent to that IP address range get forwarded a step closer to you, eventually reaching a device that you yourself control. It's all about maintaining a lot of routing tables with a lists saying (a bit simplified) "xxx.yyy.*.* get sent to the left, xxx.zzz.*.* get sent to the right".
"Simply grabbing" an arbitrary address will result that if you want to contact www.google.com, you'll send an initial packet to them, but the response packet will get forwarded to the actual intended owner as properly configured, and you won't see it. If you grabbed an address belonging to your neighbour at the same ISP, then the ISP's router nearest to you will be configured to send all such messages to your neighbour, and not you. If you grabbed a random address, then most likely it would be sent to another corner of the world, and the reply wouldn't even get close to your ISP.
It's just as with postal mail, if you live in Pyongyang but want to start receiving mail addressed to "1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500, United States", then you'd have to convince (at least one of) postal services between the sender and address owner to send such messages your way. This is possible if all the senders are in an internal company network; but that probably wasn't the question. |
710,129 | On a personal network (LAN) one can simply grab an [IP address](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address). If you choose the same IP address as an existing client, you get problems. There are companies like IANA and ICANN that are in charge of IP address bulks and sells them. But what stops you from just grabbing a random IP address? Is this built on trust? What if somebody were to grab an IP address and conflicting would occur. Is there any way of tracing that IP address to the location of the server using it?
Are companies that actually maintain the physical internet cables checking whether or not the clients connecting are using bought IP address blocks? | 2014/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/710129",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/108979/"
] | Similar to mpez0's answer, but I like a good car analogy...
I'm choosing the UK for this, since that's where I live. Imagine you live in a world where people follow road signs without question, and you happen to live right up in the north of Scotland, about as far from London as you can without crossing water. You live in a small town, and one day you decide that you're going to rename your town 'London' since that will obviously have the effect of driving more trade and tourism to your town, right? You even go to the trouble of updating the local road signs to reflect the new name of your town.
What actually happens? Well, you get lots of people from surrounding villages visiting your town following the signs and wondering why they're not in London. But apart from that, nothing changes. Why?
Consider someone who lives in the middle of England. They know that London is in the south, so when they get on the road to go to London, they follow the signs that say 'THE SOUTH' and keep going until the signs get more specific. In other words, *their* roadsigns still point to the real London. Their 'routing tables' haven't changed. The fact that your town has decided to change its name to London is inconsequential to them. Their local routes are not nearly specific enough to notice the change.
If you decide to change your IP address, routers elsewhere will not suddenly become aware of this fact. The roadsigns will not change. | A given ISP *could* assign any address to any client. However, addresses are only useful in that they can have packets routed between them and other addresses. An ISP that's assigning addresses outside the range assigned by ICANN will either not get packets routed to/from that address or will cause routing errors elsewhere on the Internet. This is the sort of thing that happens when some of the national Internet censors or filters go awry, or sometimes when top level ISPs misconfigure their routing information.
So, yes, you could set up an internal server with the same addresses as Google.com, army.mod.uk, etc. But you probably wouldn't get packets that were intended for those hosts, at least not from outside your routing scheme. |
710,129 | On a personal network (LAN) one can simply grab an [IP address](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address). If you choose the same IP address as an existing client, you get problems. There are companies like IANA and ICANN that are in charge of IP address bulks and sells them. But what stops you from just grabbing a random IP address? Is this built on trust? What if somebody were to grab an IP address and conflicting would occur. Is there any way of tracing that IP address to the location of the server using it?
Are companies that actually maintain the physical internet cables checking whether or not the clients connecting are using bought IP address blocks? | 2014/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/710129",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/108979/"
] | Consider the analogy of your house address. One day you decide to change your address from "123 First Street" to "1600 Pennsylvania Avenue". What difference does it make outside your own property lines? None - because the rest of the world still behaves as if the physical location of your house didn't change, the name of your street didn't change, the city name didn't change, the zip code didn't change... you get the idea.
Mail, packages, and so on will be "routed" to your house based on its location in the address network of your community. The number of your house (computer), by itself, is only the last and final stop (network hop). Everything along the way has to agree, has to synchronize, and you only control the very end of the path.
You can number your house (or computer) anything you want, but for your network traffic to continue to flow you must do so in sync with your environment. To change your house address, you would have to change its number, AND get the bureaucracy to change the name of your street, AND change the name of your city, AND your zip code. Likewise, to change your IP address to something outside your allocated block, you would have to change its number, AND get your upstream provider to change your allocated block, AND change their routers to route that block to you, AND advertise that via BGP to their routing peers.
In both cases you are synchronizing your change with the outside world so the outside world knows how to find you. Otherwise, the effect is that network traffic can't find you anymore - and the only entity affected by your change of address is you. Which, architecturally speaking, is a good thing! | "Could the ISP handle out ISP's it hasn't bought?"
Communication basically happens like this: PC to target machine (either a router or directly to the target - determined by the sending machine through a comparison of its IP address and it's subnet mask; if the target is not on the same subnet it is sent to the router for routing).
If a router receives a packet for routing it makes a similar decision based on all subnets it is directly connected too. It chooses which subnet to send the packet onwards through it's "routing table." Note: The routing table on the client machine was used in the first step - try CMD:"Route Print" on Windows.
At the last router in the process, the one with the target IP address on one of it's attached subnets, the router sends directly to the host via it's MAC address (possibly after RARP usage).
So, IP addresses are used to route between the routers and the routers have some way of knowing how to route based on limited sets of information. The routers share information dynamically about route changes (network subnet availability), but "they can do so in an authenticated way." I cannot comment on if authentication is enforced.
If an ISP 'releases' IP addresses to hosts via DHCP or any other means then the route table data must exist for successful two way communication. It would be trivial to identify a rogue ISP. Even if there was a trust approach happening at different levels censoring routing updates from the ISP would still be trivial. |
710,129 | On a personal network (LAN) one can simply grab an [IP address](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address). If you choose the same IP address as an existing client, you get problems. There are companies like IANA and ICANN that are in charge of IP address bulks and sells them. But what stops you from just grabbing a random IP address? Is this built on trust? What if somebody were to grab an IP address and conflicting would occur. Is there any way of tracing that IP address to the location of the server using it?
Are companies that actually maintain the physical internet cables checking whether or not the clients connecting are using bought IP address blocks? | 2014/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/710129",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/108979/"
] | "Could the ISP handle out ISP's it hasn't bought?"
Communication basically happens like this: PC to target machine (either a router or directly to the target - determined by the sending machine through a comparison of its IP address and it's subnet mask; if the target is not on the same subnet it is sent to the router for routing).
If a router receives a packet for routing it makes a similar decision based on all subnets it is directly connected too. It chooses which subnet to send the packet onwards through it's "routing table." Note: The routing table on the client machine was used in the first step - try CMD:"Route Print" on Windows.
At the last router in the process, the one with the target IP address on one of it's attached subnets, the router sends directly to the host via it's MAC address (possibly after RARP usage).
So, IP addresses are used to route between the routers and the routers have some way of knowing how to route based on limited sets of information. The routers share information dynamically about route changes (network subnet availability), but "they can do so in an authenticated way." I cannot comment on if authentication is enforced.
If an ISP 'releases' IP addresses to hosts via DHCP or any other means then the route table data must exist for successful two way communication. It would be trivial to identify a rogue ISP. Even if there was a trust approach happening at different levels censoring routing updates from the ISP would still be trivial. | You can "use" any IP address for the packets you send out, but the limitation is actually about packets that you'll receive.
"Buying" an IP address range means that a bunch of other people will configure their routers so that packets sent to that IP address range get forwarded a step closer to you, eventually reaching a device that you yourself control. It's all about maintaining a lot of routing tables with a lists saying (a bit simplified) "xxx.yyy.*.* get sent to the left, xxx.zzz.*.* get sent to the right".
"Simply grabbing" an arbitrary address will result that if you want to contact www.google.com, you'll send an initial packet to them, but the response packet will get forwarded to the actual intended owner as properly configured, and you won't see it. If you grabbed an address belonging to your neighbour at the same ISP, then the ISP's router nearest to you will be configured to send all such messages to your neighbour, and not you. If you grabbed a random address, then most likely it would be sent to another corner of the world, and the reply wouldn't even get close to your ISP.
It's just as with postal mail, if you live in Pyongyang but want to start receiving mail addressed to "1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500, United States", then you'd have to convince (at least one of) postal services between the sender and address owner to send such messages your way. This is possible if all the senders are in an internal company network; but that probably wasn't the question. |
710,129 | On a personal network (LAN) one can simply grab an [IP address](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address). If you choose the same IP address as an existing client, you get problems. There are companies like IANA and ICANN that are in charge of IP address bulks and sells them. But what stops you from just grabbing a random IP address? Is this built on trust? What if somebody were to grab an IP address and conflicting would occur. Is there any way of tracing that IP address to the location of the server using it?
Are companies that actually maintain the physical internet cables checking whether or not the clients connecting are using bought IP address blocks? | 2014/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/710129",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/108979/"
] | There is nothing preventing you from attaching a box configured with someone else's IP address to the internet. However, this won't necessarily cause any issues for anyone else but yourself.
If you steal someone else's IP address outside of the subnet that you are physically connected to, the only thing you will accomplish is not being able to receive any traffic as any router, behaving properly, is going to route traffic to the real owner of this IP address. You might be able to advertise false routes to whatever edge router is upstream from you in the hopes that they would get propagated further in the hopes of getting traffic routed to you based on your stolen IP address, but any marginally competent ISP/upstream provider would never accept routes from its non-enterprise consumers. As far as enterprise customers/other ISPs go, they are bound by specific rules about what routes they can advertise and use with their transit provider or peer, which are monitored 24/7 by Network Operations and Control Teams. Most also have rules about what routes they will accept as valid depending on who advertised them. In short, stealing someone's IP address outside the subnet you are connected to does nothing unless you can also manipulate the upstream routing tables.
That aside if you were to steal an IP address of someone in your same subnet, you would disrupt traffic of both the person who owns it and yourself. With any managed switch or router this will raise alarms as there is a duplicate address on the network and will likely lead to your connection getting blocked in some way. | You can "use" any IP address for the packets you send out, but the limitation is actually about packets that you'll receive.
"Buying" an IP address range means that a bunch of other people will configure their routers so that packets sent to that IP address range get forwarded a step closer to you, eventually reaching a device that you yourself control. It's all about maintaining a lot of routing tables with a lists saying (a bit simplified) "xxx.yyy.*.* get sent to the left, xxx.zzz.*.* get sent to the right".
"Simply grabbing" an arbitrary address will result that if you want to contact www.google.com, you'll send an initial packet to them, but the response packet will get forwarded to the actual intended owner as properly configured, and you won't see it. If you grabbed an address belonging to your neighbour at the same ISP, then the ISP's router nearest to you will be configured to send all such messages to your neighbour, and not you. If you grabbed a random address, then most likely it would be sent to another corner of the world, and the reply wouldn't even get close to your ISP.
It's just as with postal mail, if you live in Pyongyang but want to start receiving mail addressed to "1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500, United States", then you'd have to convince (at least one of) postal services between the sender and address owner to send such messages your way. This is possible if all the senders are in an internal company network; but that probably wasn't the question. |
710,129 | On a personal network (LAN) one can simply grab an [IP address](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address). If you choose the same IP address as an existing client, you get problems. There are companies like IANA and ICANN that are in charge of IP address bulks and sells them. But what stops you from just grabbing a random IP address? Is this built on trust? What if somebody were to grab an IP address and conflicting would occur. Is there any way of tracing that IP address to the location of the server using it?
Are companies that actually maintain the physical internet cables checking whether or not the clients connecting are using bought IP address blocks? | 2014/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/710129",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/108979/"
] | A given ISP *could* assign any address to any client. However, addresses are only useful in that they can have packets routed between them and other addresses. An ISP that's assigning addresses outside the range assigned by ICANN will either not get packets routed to/from that address or will cause routing errors elsewhere on the Internet. This is the sort of thing that happens when some of the national Internet censors or filters go awry, or sometimes when top level ISPs misconfigure their routing information.
So, yes, you could set up an internal server with the same addresses as Google.com, army.mod.uk, etc. But you probably wouldn't get packets that were intended for those hosts, at least not from outside your routing scheme. | You can "use" any IP address for the packets you send out, but the limitation is actually about packets that you'll receive.
"Buying" an IP address range means that a bunch of other people will configure their routers so that packets sent to that IP address range get forwarded a step closer to you, eventually reaching a device that you yourself control. It's all about maintaining a lot of routing tables with a lists saying (a bit simplified) "xxx.yyy.*.* get sent to the left, xxx.zzz.*.* get sent to the right".
"Simply grabbing" an arbitrary address will result that if you want to contact www.google.com, you'll send an initial packet to them, but the response packet will get forwarded to the actual intended owner as properly configured, and you won't see it. If you grabbed an address belonging to your neighbour at the same ISP, then the ISP's router nearest to you will be configured to send all such messages to your neighbour, and not you. If you grabbed a random address, then most likely it would be sent to another corner of the world, and the reply wouldn't even get close to your ISP.
It's just as with postal mail, if you live in Pyongyang but want to start receiving mail addressed to "1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500, United States", then you'd have to convince (at least one of) postal services between the sender and address owner to send such messages your way. This is possible if all the senders are in an internal company network; but that probably wasn't the question. |
710,129 | On a personal network (LAN) one can simply grab an [IP address](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address). If you choose the same IP address as an existing client, you get problems. There are companies like IANA and ICANN that are in charge of IP address bulks and sells them. But what stops you from just grabbing a random IP address? Is this built on trust? What if somebody were to grab an IP address and conflicting would occur. Is there any way of tracing that IP address to the location of the server using it?
Are companies that actually maintain the physical internet cables checking whether or not the clients connecting are using bought IP address blocks? | 2014/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/710129",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/108979/"
] | There is nothing preventing you from attaching a box configured with someone else's IP address to the internet. However, this won't necessarily cause any issues for anyone else but yourself.
If you steal someone else's IP address outside of the subnet that you are physically connected to, the only thing you will accomplish is not being able to receive any traffic as any router, behaving properly, is going to route traffic to the real owner of this IP address. You might be able to advertise false routes to whatever edge router is upstream from you in the hopes that they would get propagated further in the hopes of getting traffic routed to you based on your stolen IP address, but any marginally competent ISP/upstream provider would never accept routes from its non-enterprise consumers. As far as enterprise customers/other ISPs go, they are bound by specific rules about what routes they can advertise and use with their transit provider or peer, which are monitored 24/7 by Network Operations and Control Teams. Most also have rules about what routes they will accept as valid depending on who advertised them. In short, stealing someone's IP address outside the subnet you are connected to does nothing unless you can also manipulate the upstream routing tables.
That aside if you were to steal an IP address of someone in your same subnet, you would disrupt traffic of both the person who owns it and yourself. With any managed switch or router this will raise alarms as there is a duplicate address on the network and will likely lead to your connection getting blocked in some way. | The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) function of the router an individual is connected to allocates an IP address within a specific range. You can't just ask for a specific IP address. As far as I know an individual can't "spoof" an IP address. |
710,129 | On a personal network (LAN) one can simply grab an [IP address](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address). If you choose the same IP address as an existing client, you get problems. There are companies like IANA and ICANN that are in charge of IP address bulks and sells them. But what stops you from just grabbing a random IP address? Is this built on trust? What if somebody were to grab an IP address and conflicting would occur. Is there any way of tracing that IP address to the location of the server using it?
Are companies that actually maintain the physical internet cables checking whether or not the clients connecting are using bought IP address blocks? | 2014/02/01 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/710129",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/108979/"
] | There is nothing preventing you from attaching a box configured with someone else's IP address to the internet. However, this won't necessarily cause any issues for anyone else but yourself.
If you steal someone else's IP address outside of the subnet that you are physically connected to, the only thing you will accomplish is not being able to receive any traffic as any router, behaving properly, is going to route traffic to the real owner of this IP address. You might be able to advertise false routes to whatever edge router is upstream from you in the hopes that they would get propagated further in the hopes of getting traffic routed to you based on your stolen IP address, but any marginally competent ISP/upstream provider would never accept routes from its non-enterprise consumers. As far as enterprise customers/other ISPs go, they are bound by specific rules about what routes they can advertise and use with their transit provider or peer, which are monitored 24/7 by Network Operations and Control Teams. Most also have rules about what routes they will accept as valid depending on who advertised them. In short, stealing someone's IP address outside the subnet you are connected to does nothing unless you can also manipulate the upstream routing tables.
That aside if you were to steal an IP address of someone in your same subnet, you would disrupt traffic of both the person who owns it and yourself. With any managed switch or router this will raise alarms as there is a duplicate address on the network and will likely lead to your connection getting blocked in some way. | If you are a ISP you can steal whole IP-Ranges.
The Providers and big company's and the like have so called [Autonomous Systemss](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_System_%28Internet%29) identified by "AS" and a 16-bit integer value.
This systems communicate with other systems. They need a protocol to tell the other systems which IPs they own and what other AS they are connected to, and also some "cost" for the connection.
Between AS, this is usually [BGP](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Gateway_Protocol).
Problem is, this is still mostly based on trust. If some provider announces that he now owns the IP-Space of Google and the cost is very low, all the other systems send traffic for google to this provider.
This has been done, e.g. with [Youtube](http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/industry-developments/youtube-hijacking-a-ripe-ncc-ris-case-study) in an attempt by Pakistanian officials to block it in Pakistan. There is still no real technical solution. This basically still works. Most providers switched from an automatic to an semi-automatic process, where they define some criteria on route changes announced by other providers when they have to be checked by an human. But the internet is just too big to check it all. So they have rules like "if the AS did something bad before, check manually".
So no, you as normal person cannot steal a IP. But if you a large enough provider, you can steal whole IP ranges for at least hours, if not days. If you just do this for very small subnets and try to reroute the traffic to the real target, you might even get away with a man in he middle attack without anyone ever noticing.
There is of course also a [wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_hijacking)!
If you want to play around, a good start is the [bgp info tool by hurricane electric.](http://bgp.he.net/)
There is also [a graphical tool.](https://stat.ripe.net/widget/bgplay) You can enter the AS-Number of your provider that the he site tells you there and view what peerings your provider uses. |
969,421 | As the old story goes, Pythagoras and his followers were adamant that all numbers were rational, until Hippasus came along and proved that $\sqrt{2}$ (the length of the diagonal of the unit square) is irrational. A lot of Pythagoras' work was thrown into question, and as a result, he sentenced Hippasus to be drowned.
Now, I'm dubious of the reliability of this story (it varies from source to source), but I *am* interested in whether there are more cases of a mathematician being persecuted (punished in some way) by "the man" for making a radical discovery/proof.
Are there any such examples? If there are, please state the discovery (the actual mathematical statement) along with the punishment.
**Edit**
I'm looking for examples of persecution **solely due to the discovery** (not anything to do with the race, relgion, orientation, etc. of the discover**er**) | 2014/10/11 | [
"https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/969421",
"https://math.stackexchange.com",
"https://math.stackexchange.com/users/127192/"
] | For his mathematical achievements, Cantor was ostracized by the mathematical community. Instead of being given the professorship he deserved, he ended up teaching in what was effectively a community college. He slowly went insane after that.
Describing the mathematics of Cantor, Poincare is famously quoted as saying that "later generations will regard Mengenlehre (set theory) as a disease from which one has recovered".
Source: <http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/dangerous-knowledge/> | It is a bit the other way around (someone persecuted who found refuge in his own mind) : Jacow Trachtenberg developed a method for doing arithmetics while being held in a nazi camp.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trachtenberg_system> |
969,421 | As the old story goes, Pythagoras and his followers were adamant that all numbers were rational, until Hippasus came along and proved that $\sqrt{2}$ (the length of the diagonal of the unit square) is irrational. A lot of Pythagoras' work was thrown into question, and as a result, he sentenced Hippasus to be drowned.
Now, I'm dubious of the reliability of this story (it varies from source to source), but I *am* interested in whether there are more cases of a mathematician being persecuted (punished in some way) by "the man" for making a radical discovery/proof.
Are there any such examples? If there are, please state the discovery (the actual mathematical statement) along with the punishment.
**Edit**
I'm looking for examples of persecution **solely due to the discovery** (not anything to do with the race, relgion, orientation, etc. of the discover**er**) | 2014/10/11 | [
"https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/969421",
"https://math.stackexchange.com",
"https://math.stackexchange.com/users/127192/"
] | For his mathematical achievements, Cantor was ostracized by the mathematical community. Instead of being given the professorship he deserved, he ended up teaching in what was effectively a community college. He slowly went insane after that.
Describing the mathematics of Cantor, Poincare is famously quoted as saying that "later generations will regard Mengenlehre (set theory) as a disease from which one has recovered".
Source: <http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/dangerous-knowledge/> | There was an acerbic dispute between David Hilbert and L.E.J. Brouwer in the beginning of the 20th century. Basically, the former found the latter's insistence on constructivist methods ever more annoying. The animosity had eventually led to Brouwer's isolation within the scientific community. Brouwer survived his exile by almost forty years and died at an old age—in a car accident. |
969,421 | As the old story goes, Pythagoras and his followers were adamant that all numbers were rational, until Hippasus came along and proved that $\sqrt{2}$ (the length of the diagonal of the unit square) is irrational. A lot of Pythagoras' work was thrown into question, and as a result, he sentenced Hippasus to be drowned.
Now, I'm dubious of the reliability of this story (it varies from source to source), but I *am* interested in whether there are more cases of a mathematician being persecuted (punished in some way) by "the man" for making a radical discovery/proof.
Are there any such examples? If there are, please state the discovery (the actual mathematical statement) along with the punishment.
**Edit**
I'm looking for examples of persecution **solely due to the discovery** (not anything to do with the race, relgion, orientation, etc. of the discover**er**) | 2014/10/11 | [
"https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/969421",
"https://math.stackexchange.com",
"https://math.stackexchange.com/users/127192/"
] | Here is a rather comical one.
Henry Oldenburg founded the Royal Society (in London) in 1662.
If an effort to publish high quality papers, he had to correspond with many foreigners across Europe. The high volume of foreign correspondence came to the attention of authorities. He was arrested as a spy and held in the Tower of London for several months. | It is a bit the other way around (someone persecuted who found refuge in his own mind) : Jacow Trachtenberg developed a method for doing arithmetics while being held in a nazi camp.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trachtenberg_system> |
969,421 | As the old story goes, Pythagoras and his followers were adamant that all numbers were rational, until Hippasus came along and proved that $\sqrt{2}$ (the length of the diagonal of the unit square) is irrational. A lot of Pythagoras' work was thrown into question, and as a result, he sentenced Hippasus to be drowned.
Now, I'm dubious of the reliability of this story (it varies from source to source), but I *am* interested in whether there are more cases of a mathematician being persecuted (punished in some way) by "the man" for making a radical discovery/proof.
Are there any such examples? If there are, please state the discovery (the actual mathematical statement) along with the punishment.
**Edit**
I'm looking for examples of persecution **solely due to the discovery** (not anything to do with the race, relgion, orientation, etc. of the discover**er**) | 2014/10/11 | [
"https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/969421",
"https://math.stackexchange.com",
"https://math.stackexchange.com/users/127192/"
] | Here is a rather comical one.
Henry Oldenburg founded the Royal Society (in London) in 1662.
If an effort to publish high quality papers, he had to correspond with many foreigners across Europe. The high volume of foreign correspondence came to the attention of authorities. He was arrested as a spy and held in the Tower of London for several months. | There was an acerbic dispute between David Hilbert and L.E.J. Brouwer in the beginning of the 20th century. Basically, the former found the latter's insistence on constructivist methods ever more annoying. The animosity had eventually led to Brouwer's isolation within the scientific community. Brouwer survived his exile by almost forty years and died at an old age—in a car accident. |
969,421 | As the old story goes, Pythagoras and his followers were adamant that all numbers were rational, until Hippasus came along and proved that $\sqrt{2}$ (the length of the diagonal of the unit square) is irrational. A lot of Pythagoras' work was thrown into question, and as a result, he sentenced Hippasus to be drowned.
Now, I'm dubious of the reliability of this story (it varies from source to source), but I *am* interested in whether there are more cases of a mathematician being persecuted (punished in some way) by "the man" for making a radical discovery/proof.
Are there any such examples? If there are, please state the discovery (the actual mathematical statement) along with the punishment.
**Edit**
I'm looking for examples of persecution **solely due to the discovery** (not anything to do with the race, relgion, orientation, etc. of the discover**er**) | 2014/10/11 | [
"https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/969421",
"https://math.stackexchange.com",
"https://math.stackexchange.com/users/127192/"
] | [Israel Gelfand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Gelfand) discovered the [tridiagonal matrix algorithm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tridiagonal_matrix_algorithm) (or rather established its stability and applied to numerical solution of PDEs) in the early 50s . In view of the main applications of numerical analysis at that time the method - essentially an elementary linear algebra - was classified by the Soviet government services and Gelfand was forbidden to leave the country. Being a major mathematician of the epoch, he was therefore unable to participate in any conference abroad until (?) the late 70s. | It is a bit the other way around (someone persecuted who found refuge in his own mind) : Jacow Trachtenberg developed a method for doing arithmetics while being held in a nazi camp.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trachtenberg_system> |
969,421 | As the old story goes, Pythagoras and his followers were adamant that all numbers were rational, until Hippasus came along and proved that $\sqrt{2}$ (the length of the diagonal of the unit square) is irrational. A lot of Pythagoras' work was thrown into question, and as a result, he sentenced Hippasus to be drowned.
Now, I'm dubious of the reliability of this story (it varies from source to source), but I *am* interested in whether there are more cases of a mathematician being persecuted (punished in some way) by "the man" for making a radical discovery/proof.
Are there any such examples? If there are, please state the discovery (the actual mathematical statement) along with the punishment.
**Edit**
I'm looking for examples of persecution **solely due to the discovery** (not anything to do with the race, relgion, orientation, etc. of the discover**er**) | 2014/10/11 | [
"https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/969421",
"https://math.stackexchange.com",
"https://math.stackexchange.com/users/127192/"
] | There was an acerbic dispute between David Hilbert and L.E.J. Brouwer in the beginning of the 20th century. Basically, the former found the latter's insistence on constructivist methods ever more annoying. The animosity had eventually led to Brouwer's isolation within the scientific community. Brouwer survived his exile by almost forty years and died at an old age—in a car accident. | It is a bit the other way around (someone persecuted who found refuge in his own mind) : Jacow Trachtenberg developed a method for doing arithmetics while being held in a nazi camp.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trachtenberg_system> |
969,421 | As the old story goes, Pythagoras and his followers were adamant that all numbers were rational, until Hippasus came along and proved that $\sqrt{2}$ (the length of the diagonal of the unit square) is irrational. A lot of Pythagoras' work was thrown into question, and as a result, he sentenced Hippasus to be drowned.
Now, I'm dubious of the reliability of this story (it varies from source to source), but I *am* interested in whether there are more cases of a mathematician being persecuted (punished in some way) by "the man" for making a radical discovery/proof.
Are there any such examples? If there are, please state the discovery (the actual mathematical statement) along with the punishment.
**Edit**
I'm looking for examples of persecution **solely due to the discovery** (not anything to do with the race, relgion, orientation, etc. of the discover**er**) | 2014/10/11 | [
"https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/969421",
"https://math.stackexchange.com",
"https://math.stackexchange.com/users/127192/"
] | [Israel Gelfand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Gelfand) discovered the [tridiagonal matrix algorithm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tridiagonal_matrix_algorithm) (or rather established its stability and applied to numerical solution of PDEs) in the early 50s . In view of the main applications of numerical analysis at that time the method - essentially an elementary linear algebra - was classified by the Soviet government services and Gelfand was forbidden to leave the country. Being a major mathematician of the epoch, he was therefore unable to participate in any conference abroad until (?) the late 70s. | There was an acerbic dispute between David Hilbert and L.E.J. Brouwer in the beginning of the 20th century. Basically, the former found the latter's insistence on constructivist methods ever more annoying. The animosity had eventually led to Brouwer's isolation within the scientific community. Brouwer survived his exile by almost forty years and died at an old age—in a car accident. |
72,341 | People always consider universities like Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial College etc. among the best universities on the planet, with centuries of experience in research methodology. One would assert that their policies to conduct 1-year master programs (versus their 2-year counterparts at rest of the world, specially north america) sounds a little odd and vague.
[This article](https://prepadviser.com/one-year-vs-two-year-masters-programmes-pros-cons/) has tried to address some Pros and Cons. Seemingly, "Shortness" of the program might not be a true advantage, where the depth of the education might be endangered. Moreover, the students might not be, deservedly, flourished by the target program, because it will be supposed to be finished, when the students have just focused on the case, primarily, without acquisition of the all of the desired educational and research profundity. On the other hand, the investment does not sound to be a considerable factor to justify this policy, because most of the students (and their parents) realize that paying for graduate studies will construct their future and the investment on this case will, fairly, be compensated with the upcoming achievements, such as successful recruitment and so on.
So, I, personally, can not understand the real underlying logic behind taking such decision into account by UK universities. It is undeniable that a multitude of international students would not discern these short programs as efficient steps to build a robust future for them in either further academic progressions or professional job sector.
**Why don't UK universities manage their master programs in 2-year periods, instead of current short 1-year ones?**
**What motivations could convince a typical international student to prefer a 1-year master program at UK to a 2-year one at north america?**
PS. There is a, typically, [similar question](https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/901/1-or-2-year-masters-program) within the community, has which not asserted on the intrinsic facts, under the aegis of this policy. It's content, globally, demonstrates more reasons to revoke the credibility of the case. | 2016/07/05 | [
"https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/72341",
"https://academia.stackexchange.com",
"https://academia.stackexchange.com/users/41207/"
] | The [article you link to](https://prepadviser.com/one-year-vs-two-year-masters-programmes-pros-cons/) lists 3 cons to a 1 year program: not enough time to take electives, not enough time for a work placement, and not enough time to get good letters of recommendation. It also lists duration, and the decreased costs, as the major benefit. The cons, however, are not particularly important in the UK (and many parts of the world) while the pro is important worldwide.
*Electives:*
The UK educational, and employment, system does value electives. Students start specializing at age 16 when they take their A levels. Undergraduate programs typically have no "general education" type requirements. Many MSc programs are so specialized that there are not enough electives offered to fill a second year.
*Work Placement:*
In the UK, work placement opportunities are not limited to students. In fact, in my field, work placements are only available to graduates and students cannot do a work placement.
*Recommendations*
Letters of recommendation are just not that important in the UK. For example, for permanent academic positions, letters of reference are not part of the decision process until the very end. Many jobs do not require any references at all.
*Duration*
For self-funded programs, a 1 year program saves you money. Even with funding, there are still opportunity costs associated with the 2nd year.
To get to your questions:
>
> Why don't UK universities manage their master programs in 2-year periods, instead of current short 1-year ones?
>
>
>
In general, as with most things, finances rule the day. While 2-year programs would theoretically bring in more money to a school, the fear is that a 2-year program would not meet the needs of UK students and student numbers would drop. This would result in decreased revenue for the school/department.
>
> What motivations could convince a typical international student to prefer a 1-year master program at UK to a 2-year one at north america?
>
>
>
My UK school pitched our MSc program to US students as: if you know what you want to study, why waste money and time studying other things | At least when I was living in the UK, full time courses really were full time. I took 2.5 years to complete my M.Sc., because I was working and taking classes in the evenings. During those 2.5 years I had very little free time - work, studies, sleeping, and basic self-maintenance took 24 hours a day.
The same program was also available as a one year full time course, but it would have been extremely difficult to work much while doing it that way. |
72,341 | People always consider universities like Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial College etc. among the best universities on the planet, with centuries of experience in research methodology. One would assert that their policies to conduct 1-year master programs (versus their 2-year counterparts at rest of the world, specially north america) sounds a little odd and vague.
[This article](https://prepadviser.com/one-year-vs-two-year-masters-programmes-pros-cons/) has tried to address some Pros and Cons. Seemingly, "Shortness" of the program might not be a true advantage, where the depth of the education might be endangered. Moreover, the students might not be, deservedly, flourished by the target program, because it will be supposed to be finished, when the students have just focused on the case, primarily, without acquisition of the all of the desired educational and research profundity. On the other hand, the investment does not sound to be a considerable factor to justify this policy, because most of the students (and their parents) realize that paying for graduate studies will construct their future and the investment on this case will, fairly, be compensated with the upcoming achievements, such as successful recruitment and so on.
So, I, personally, can not understand the real underlying logic behind taking such decision into account by UK universities. It is undeniable that a multitude of international students would not discern these short programs as efficient steps to build a robust future for them in either further academic progressions or professional job sector.
**Why don't UK universities manage their master programs in 2-year periods, instead of current short 1-year ones?**
**What motivations could convince a typical international student to prefer a 1-year master program at UK to a 2-year one at north america?**
PS. There is a, typically, [similar question](https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/901/1-or-2-year-masters-program) within the community, has which not asserted on the intrinsic facts, under the aegis of this policy. It's content, globally, demonstrates more reasons to revoke the credibility of the case. | 2016/07/05 | [
"https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/72341",
"https://academia.stackexchange.com",
"https://academia.stackexchange.com/users/41207/"
] | The [article you link to](https://prepadviser.com/one-year-vs-two-year-masters-programmes-pros-cons/) lists 3 cons to a 1 year program: not enough time to take electives, not enough time for a work placement, and not enough time to get good letters of recommendation. It also lists duration, and the decreased costs, as the major benefit. The cons, however, are not particularly important in the UK (and many parts of the world) while the pro is important worldwide.
*Electives:*
The UK educational, and employment, system does value electives. Students start specializing at age 16 when they take their A levels. Undergraduate programs typically have no "general education" type requirements. Many MSc programs are so specialized that there are not enough electives offered to fill a second year.
*Work Placement:*
In the UK, work placement opportunities are not limited to students. In fact, in my field, work placements are only available to graduates and students cannot do a work placement.
*Recommendations*
Letters of recommendation are just not that important in the UK. For example, for permanent academic positions, letters of reference are not part of the decision process until the very end. Many jobs do not require any references at all.
*Duration*
For self-funded programs, a 1 year program saves you money. Even with funding, there are still opportunity costs associated with the 2nd year.
To get to your questions:
>
> Why don't UK universities manage their master programs in 2-year periods, instead of current short 1-year ones?
>
>
>
In general, as with most things, finances rule the day. While 2-year programs would theoretically bring in more money to a school, the fear is that a 2-year program would not meet the needs of UK students and student numbers would drop. This would result in decreased revenue for the school/department.
>
> What motivations could convince a typical international student to prefer a 1-year master program at UK to a 2-year one at north america?
>
>
>
My UK school pitched our MSc program to US students as: if you know what you want to study, why waste money and time studying other things | In UK the Masters are one year, however we also have to see that in other parts of the world there is no Class 13 or Year 13, here we study a year more even before getting into a graduate programme. |
72,341 | People always consider universities like Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial College etc. among the best universities on the planet, with centuries of experience in research methodology. One would assert that their policies to conduct 1-year master programs (versus their 2-year counterparts at rest of the world, specially north america) sounds a little odd and vague.
[This article](https://prepadviser.com/one-year-vs-two-year-masters-programmes-pros-cons/) has tried to address some Pros and Cons. Seemingly, "Shortness" of the program might not be a true advantage, where the depth of the education might be endangered. Moreover, the students might not be, deservedly, flourished by the target program, because it will be supposed to be finished, when the students have just focused on the case, primarily, without acquisition of the all of the desired educational and research profundity. On the other hand, the investment does not sound to be a considerable factor to justify this policy, because most of the students (and their parents) realize that paying for graduate studies will construct their future and the investment on this case will, fairly, be compensated with the upcoming achievements, such as successful recruitment and so on.
So, I, personally, can not understand the real underlying logic behind taking such decision into account by UK universities. It is undeniable that a multitude of international students would not discern these short programs as efficient steps to build a robust future for them in either further academic progressions or professional job sector.
**Why don't UK universities manage their master programs in 2-year periods, instead of current short 1-year ones?**
**What motivations could convince a typical international student to prefer a 1-year master program at UK to a 2-year one at north america?**
PS. There is a, typically, [similar question](https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/901/1-or-2-year-masters-program) within the community, has which not asserted on the intrinsic facts, under the aegis of this policy. It's content, globally, demonstrates more reasons to revoke the credibility of the case. | 2016/07/05 | [
"https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/72341",
"https://academia.stackexchange.com",
"https://academia.stackexchange.com/users/41207/"
] | At least when I was living in the UK, full time courses really were full time. I took 2.5 years to complete my M.Sc., because I was working and taking classes in the evenings. During those 2.5 years I had very little free time - work, studies, sleeping, and basic self-maintenance took 24 hours a day.
The same program was also available as a one year full time course, but it would have been extremely difficult to work much while doing it that way. | In UK the Masters are one year, however we also have to see that in other parts of the world there is no Class 13 or Year 13, here we study a year more even before getting into a graduate programme. |
843,738 | I'm looking for data mining tools for a project and in line with that I have put up another post in SO. I'm currently looking at different tools and am wondering whether any industry benchmark exists to asses different data mining tools so that I can refer it do a better evaluation of tools.
Please let me know if any such benchmark exists or it just boils down to picking the tool which suits your needs ...
cheers | 2009/05/09 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/843738",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/68920/"
] | For evaluations of data mining tools on features/etc, how about these links:
* [A Comparison of Leading Data Mining Tools](http://datamininglab.com/pubs/kdd98_elder_abbott_nopics.pdf) (1998) - dated but pretty informative
* [Magic Quadrant for Customer Data-Mining Applications](http://mediaproducts.gartner.com/reprints/sas/vol5/article3/article3.html) (2008) - a bit non-technical | Here are some standard sets of test data to benchmark accuracy performance:
* UC Irvine - Knowledge Discovery in Databases [(KDD) Dataset Archive](http://kdd.ics.uci.edu)
* UToronto - Data for Evaluating Learning in Valid Experiments ([DELVE](http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~delve)) |
843,738 | I'm looking for data mining tools for a project and in line with that I have put up another post in SO. I'm currently looking at different tools and am wondering whether any industry benchmark exists to asses different data mining tools so that I can refer it do a better evaluation of tools.
Please let me know if any such benchmark exists or it just boils down to picking the tool which suits your needs ...
cheers | 2009/05/09 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/843738",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/68920/"
] | For evaluations of data mining tools on features/etc, how about these links:
* [A Comparison of Leading Data Mining Tools](http://datamininglab.com/pubs/kdd98_elder_abbott_nopics.pdf) (1998) - dated but pretty informative
* [Magic Quadrant for Customer Data-Mining Applications](http://mediaproducts.gartner.com/reprints/sas/vol5/article3/article3.html) (2008) - a bit non-technical | This site: <http://clopinet.com/challenges/> contains tons of datasets for machine learning techniques. The best part is that you can also compare your performance to that of others. |
230,424 | I know a pixel on a normal map's RGB value represents the normal vector's XYZ coordination. but in which space? World space, the object's local space, or relative to the face's normal? If it's not relative to the face's normal, does it mean that a normal map completely overrides the face/vertex normals?
Let's assume we only use Principled BSDF here. | 2021/07/13 | [
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/230424",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com",
"https://blender.stackexchange.com/users/88805/"
] | The BSDF you plug it into doesn't matter. The way that the normal map is treated doesn't depend on what it ultimately feeds.
As you realized, a tangent space normal map is made out of (remapped, -1,1 to 0,1) vectors in tangent space.
An object space normal map is made out of (remapped) vectors in object space.
The output of a normal map node is expressed in world space. The normal map node undoes the remapping of the normal map and transforms its space from either tangent or object to world. | I did some research and the answer is "tangent space". It's actually a surprisingly complicated concept. In short, it depends on both the face normal and the UV unwrapping.
<https://learnopengl.com/Advanced-Lighting/Normal-Mapping> |
12,271,907 | When I first open Visual Studio 2010, I accidentally said "Yes" to help/code tips or something. Now whenever I type code, I get these annoying pop-ups explaining what happened or trying to improve my code, etc. These help tips are making it difficult to code and causing Visual Studio to run slowly.
**How do I disable them?**
Edit: my apologies for posting this. I did not realize it was off-topic. Does Stack Overflow have a proper place for questions about software tools such as IDEs? | 2012/09/04 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/12271907",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/599535/"
] | These are the help tips from **CodeRush** which is a [IDE productivity tool](http://devexpress.com/Products/Visual_Studio_Add-in/Coding_Assistance/) from DevExpress. You can disable it by going to your tools menu and select **DevExpres->UnLoad**
Doing this will not only disable the smart tips, but the whole CodeRush.
Personally, It is not annoying for me. This helps me to be more productive. In a single statment "***I love CodeRush to have in my VS environment***" | The first of your images is a **CodeIssue** tip.
These can be toggled on and off via the first icon on the [**DXCore Visualize** toolbar](http://community.devexpress.com/blogs/rorybecker/archive/2010/07/26/The-DXCore-Visualize-Toolbar.aspx)
The second item (the 'What happened' popup) was likely triggered because of a choice made when running VS after installing CodeRush for the first time.
It can be reversed through our options screen:
* Select **DevExpress \ Options**
* Locate the **Core \ Features** page.
* Uncheck the first option
* Click Ok
More detail regarding the 'What happened' popup can be found [in this blog post](http://community.devexpress.com/blogs/rorybecker/archive/2010/08/25/coderush-notifications.aspx) on various CodeRush notifications.
Note: This post refers to version 10.1.5 of CodeRush. The latest version at the time of writing is 12.1.6. |
19,040,090 | I am writing unit tests for a library that uses WebRTC.
My test suite requires permissions from Chrome for almost every unit test, which requires me to manually click the 'allow' button for every test.
Is there a flag or setting I can change to always allow media access globally so that my test suite is not prompted for permissions?
I am using the Jasmine test runner in Chrome. | 2013/09/26 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/19040090",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/1064917/"
] | Good question.
**EDIT: With Chrome's --use-fake-ui-for-media-stream flag, all gUM calls will be auto-accepted and no UI will ever pop up.**
I believe there was some discussion of a browser flag that would mean permission confirmation was never required via the UI, but as far as I'm aware this hasn't been implemented in any browser. (I can imagine potential security problems.)
Couple of suggestions (which probably won't work for you, given that you're writing a library, not an app...)
1. Could you run the test from a Chrome app? If you use the audioCapture/videoCapture permission, permission is only requested once, on app installation, not for every session.
2. Use HTTPS for the page that calls getUserMedia(). That means permission is only requested once for that domain, the first time gUM is called. | There is list of policies that [Chromium respects](http://www.chromium.org/administrators/policy-list-3) Your interest in these two options: [VideoCaptureAllowed](http://www.chromium.org/administrators/policy-list-3#VideoCaptureAllowed) and [VideoCaptureAllowedUrls](http://www.chromium.org/administrators/policy-list-3#VideoCaptureAllowedUrls). Also this option was useful for me [DefaultMediaStreamSetting](http://www.chromium.org/administrators/policy-list-3#DefaultMediaStreamSetting), but it now deprecated (I set it to 1). How to setup - it only depends on your operation system. Look at [for Linux](http://www.chromium.org/administrators/linux-quick-start), [Mac OS X](http://www.chromium.org/administrators/mac-quick-start) and [Windows](http://www.chromium.org/administrators/windows-quick-start) |
32,013 | Recently we have had a number of 'explosive' games of Catan and Risk, where the game has become very heated because use of **'prompting'** or **'suggesting'** of moves to other players. I see this as a valid strategy, however one of my rival players sees it very much the other way and thinks it is unsportsmanlike.
To give a better illustration of the issue here is a scenario for Catan:
* It is a 4 player game, around half way through
* I am **Player 1** and am currently not leading the game
* **Player 2** is currently in the lead as I see it, and they are a good player
* **Players 3 and 4** are in similar positions to me, and look unlikely to win.
At this stage I feel like if the game plays out then **Player 2** has a high chance of winning, they are unlikely to make any major mistakes and it would take a sequence of bad luck to unseat them from the victory.
It comes up to **Player 3**'s turn, and they have several moves they can make. They initially choose to **attack me**. At this point I speak up and prompt another move that attacks **Player 2**, and illustrate that they are currently winning the game, and that they need to be stopped, implying a loose **alliance**. This play is beneficial to both **me** and to **Player 3** by keeping us in the game, but damaging to **Player 2**.
At this stage **Player 2** 'explodes'. I am berated for making such a suggestion, called a bad sport, and are accused of being of weak moral fibre.
Unfortunately **Player 2** has been a better *political* opponent as well as player, and has the backing of some of the other members of the group, as this is not the first occurrence. They have been building support for their 'anti-prompting' cause for a number of weeks/months.
I back down, and stay quiet, and watch a number of games go by that were largely *uninteresting* because of a lack of any **team play** to slow down the winner. Part of this issue is with the way the game operates, in this case Catan:
* You can see the progress of each player to within a 1-2 victory points in most cases, as well as how they trending
* The game seems to be decided quite early in many cases due to strong starting positions and early moves
* It has a large chance factor for starting positions and early resource gains
* By having only one winner it can be very cut-throat and does not explicitly lend itself to cooperation
The end result of these properties is that I feel many games are decided early, and the remaining 45-30 minutes is spent *going through the motions*. Ideally I would not be in this position, as the other players should see the *primary* threat and that we should work together toward a common goal of taking out the leader and then one of us may have a chance of the win. Unfortunately this is not often the case, and I'm not allowed to make any mention of this, or I get berated again.
Ultimately this comes down to trust also, if I suggest poor moves then no one will listen. The issue is that, as a strong player, my suggestions are often strong and insightful too, negating a major play or situation that has gone unnoticed. This is clearly *aggravating* for the player I'm doing this against (Player 2), but my only other option is to sit there and **let them win**.
Do you allow prompting in your games? Is it an issue? Do you think it is unsportsmanlike? Should I back down and keep quiet? How should I bring this up as a valid and accepted part of the game if I choose to try an get this included as an allowed behaviour in future games? | 2016/08/09 | [
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/32013",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/13655/"
] | Fascinating. I think on some level your friend player 2 and yourself are, as has been stated, playing a different meta game.
I gathered some opinions about this from my current gaming group (my wife and 12 yo) to see how this bounces off them. We all agreed that “ganging up” on the lead player is all part of the game, and should be encouraged. However, we all very much dislike the idea of telling other people exactly what they should be doing.
Couple things,
1. You stated that *after* player 3 declared their move, to attack you, you decided to point out how wrong this move was and they should attack someone else. While I would not accuse you of “weak moral fiber” (ha) I would say that this is kind of over the line. You might grumble a bit, and hope that player 4 does not also capitalize on your weakness, and address player 2, but player 3 already said what they were doing, so be quiet. That said, pointing out who is in the lead, and what a favorable position they have is perfectly fine between declarations, in fact encouraged at our table. Keep everyone in the loop, but maybe not suggest every move.
2. If I was player 2, and had played my game carefully and through a stroke of luck, player 3 decided to not press me, I might be a bit put off by your request that they attack me after declaring their moves.
3. Consider that Player 3 might have thought that attacking you (in Catan?) was more helpful to them, than focusing on the current leader.
Lastly, perhaps while you consider yourself “a strong player” in your words, the rest of the table is actually not impressed with your suggestions. Consider that maybe Player 2 is the only one who is vocal about it. Being a bit oppositional-defiant myself, I do not actually appreciate someone telling me what the “best” move is throughout any game, and maybe Player 3 is sick of your … attitude. Raising kids, I find that I have to back off and let them make mistakes so that they can see and experience the consequences of a less than ideal choice. When a person is not a strong player either because they are new, or just don’t want to spend the effort to become one, they might find much enjoyment out of just seeing what strategy A can do vs strategy B. When new, we might actually enjoy losing, because we were just trying to gather maximum wheat…. just because.
I do not want that last paragraph to sound harsh. I hope it didn’t.
I find that this gets MUCH WORSE with cooperative games like pandemic, where mostly, the group decides the best course of action, and there isn’t really much room for individuals to make any decisions. I’d suggest your group stay away from that one.
TL;DR Yes. After they’ve declared their intentions, it should be avoided. Nothing wrong with sweeping generalizations about the state of the leader, however. | For Catan specifically...
Ganging up on the leader is part of the game. Attacking someone other than the leader for a personal gain is part of the game. Making mistakes is part of the game. Knowing other player's positions by meticulously keeping track of the details is part of the game (I tend to keep track of exactly which resources everyone has in their hands, and playing IRL I'll even watch exactly where each card is if I really need to pull an Ore from someone... they really don't like that ;) ). *Not* knowing players' positions because you are distracted is part of the game.
In my opinion, any information which is unhidden by the rules, like what resources a player has picked up recently, is fair game and I don't think it's poor sportsmanship for it to be discussed freely. Speculation, like if you think a player has a VP point card, can be tricky and really misleading to a newer player, but again, just in my opinion, it's fair game for discussion.
So to provide a suggestion for resolving this issue in your group, I would just explain to them that talking about the score and prompting someone about moves is all just part of the game. But you all have to remember that it's not necessary to listen to the suggestions. And **you** have to remember that the other players are free to play how they like, and that making suggestions to them might rub them the wrong way and ultimately come back to bite you, and that's **your** problem. Being attacked by Player 3 when Player 2 is leading is **your** problem, and you have to deal with it. Prompting them to attack Player 2 instead is one way to deal with it, but it sounds like it's not very effective, so **you** need to figure out a better way to avoid that situation. Because remember, getting screwed over **is part of the game**.
I think it's fine for you to prompt, it's fine for the other players to get annoyed, and it's fine for Player 2 to call you out. To me, that's all fair game. Getting frustrated is part of the game.
If your tone is: "You *should* attack Player 2 because they are going to win soon if you don't" that might be effective, but if your message is "You *need* to attack Player 2 otherwise you are an idiot and ruining the game", that's probably not going to get anyone to listen to you. So think about that.
Here's a tip:
A strategy I use online, not so much in real life, is as someone starts pulling ahead, I'll sprinkle in comments to suggest that player is *dominating* the game, and it can often get the other players to attack that player:
* "Wow, White's city on the ore is really paying off..."
* "Red has the best board setup..."
* "Blue can buy anything they need..."
And comments about how bad I'm doing (especially if I am doing well...):
* "Man, I should have built there instead..."
* "I can't get anything I need..."
* "I'm getting such bad luck..."
Playing online is different because you can't see what move a player is about to make, and there's no undo, so berating someone for a bad move after the fact usually gets you nowhere. Try slowly influencing the other players throughout the game, instead of suddenly saying "DUDE YOU GOTTA ATTACK HIM".
So even if you are totally right that Player 3 should attack Player 2 for the benefit of everyone, *you* have to find a better way to get into his head. You have to read the other players better and find a better way to manipulate them.
And you should suggest to Player 2 that he only thinks it's unsportsmanlike because he's not confident in his ability, because if he was good he would win anyways... they will be pissed at you at first but I bet they would change their attitude.
TL;DR; No it's not bad etiquette for casual play, but you can't expect everyone to listen to you and you have to understand there might be negative consequences for you for doing it.
**Updated TLDR**
Catan was designed for these kind of conflicts and questions over "morals" and "etiquette" to arise. It's intentionally ambiguous. |
32,013 | Recently we have had a number of 'explosive' games of Catan and Risk, where the game has become very heated because use of **'prompting'** or **'suggesting'** of moves to other players. I see this as a valid strategy, however one of my rival players sees it very much the other way and thinks it is unsportsmanlike.
To give a better illustration of the issue here is a scenario for Catan:
* It is a 4 player game, around half way through
* I am **Player 1** and am currently not leading the game
* **Player 2** is currently in the lead as I see it, and they are a good player
* **Players 3 and 4** are in similar positions to me, and look unlikely to win.
At this stage I feel like if the game plays out then **Player 2** has a high chance of winning, they are unlikely to make any major mistakes and it would take a sequence of bad luck to unseat them from the victory.
It comes up to **Player 3**'s turn, and they have several moves they can make. They initially choose to **attack me**. At this point I speak up and prompt another move that attacks **Player 2**, and illustrate that they are currently winning the game, and that they need to be stopped, implying a loose **alliance**. This play is beneficial to both **me** and to **Player 3** by keeping us in the game, but damaging to **Player 2**.
At this stage **Player 2** 'explodes'. I am berated for making such a suggestion, called a bad sport, and are accused of being of weak moral fibre.
Unfortunately **Player 2** has been a better *political* opponent as well as player, and has the backing of some of the other members of the group, as this is not the first occurrence. They have been building support for their 'anti-prompting' cause for a number of weeks/months.
I back down, and stay quiet, and watch a number of games go by that were largely *uninteresting* because of a lack of any **team play** to slow down the winner. Part of this issue is with the way the game operates, in this case Catan:
* You can see the progress of each player to within a 1-2 victory points in most cases, as well as how they trending
* The game seems to be decided quite early in many cases due to strong starting positions and early moves
* It has a large chance factor for starting positions and early resource gains
* By having only one winner it can be very cut-throat and does not explicitly lend itself to cooperation
The end result of these properties is that I feel many games are decided early, and the remaining 45-30 minutes is spent *going through the motions*. Ideally I would not be in this position, as the other players should see the *primary* threat and that we should work together toward a common goal of taking out the leader and then one of us may have a chance of the win. Unfortunately this is not often the case, and I'm not allowed to make any mention of this, or I get berated again.
Ultimately this comes down to trust also, if I suggest poor moves then no one will listen. The issue is that, as a strong player, my suggestions are often strong and insightful too, negating a major play or situation that has gone unnoticed. This is clearly *aggravating* for the player I'm doing this against (Player 2), but my only other option is to sit there and **let them win**.
Do you allow prompting in your games? Is it an issue? Do you think it is unsportsmanlike? Should I back down and keep quiet? How should I bring this up as a valid and accepted part of the game if I choose to try an get this included as an allowed behaviour in future games? | 2016/08/09 | [
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/32013",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/13655/"
] | >
> They initially choose to attack me. At this point I speak up
>
>
>
Separately from whether alliance-forming should be part of the game, I think it's also worth considering whether *negotiating with someone after they've declared their move*, in an attempt to talk them down and make them withdraw that move and replace it with another, should be part of the game. This goes beyond just suggesting a temporary alliance, or discussing possible moves with your allies: you're telling your opponents that the choice they've just made isn't good enough for you.
Catan has no formal planning phase of the turn (unlike, say, Diplomacy, which more or less *demands* that you play by suggesting moves to other players and mutually discussing the options). So there has to be some flexibility about when moves are discussed, if they're going to be discussed at all. But you're persuading them at the most frustrating time. Quite aside from the fact that Player 2 doesn't want any plotting against him at all, you're not presenting the concept of teamwork to *anyone* in the best way by (as it probably seems to them) demanding that another player delay their turn until they've heard your arguments as to what they should do.
Having an idea who's in the lead and what a given player can do to obstruct them is part of the game, true, and players 3 and 4 apparently aren't doing this very well. Maybe they don't think about it at all, or maybe they disagree with the moves you'd prefer them to make for reasons that make sense to them even though with your superior strategy you know they're being fools to themselves. But the biggest problem is that they're playing badly, and this makes the game dull. Not that they refuse to let you argue their moves.
Therefore I recommend that you approach this by talking to players 3 and 4 (in particular, but 2 as well because excluding him would be a poor move both politically and in terms of friendship). Not initially about team play as such, but about the importance within the game of preventing the leader doing too well. Any teaming up is a means to that end, but it's perfectly possible for each player to come to their own individual conclusion who's ahead and what they can do about it. If you can persuade 3 and 4 *before the game starts* that their best chance of winning is to inconvenience you when you're in the lead, and 2 when 2 is in the lead, you won't have to interrupt their turns with your protests. If you can't convince them of that before the game, then telling them in-game which moves they should make in order to achieve a goal that they've chosen not to try to achieve (a close game in which they have a shot of sneaking the win), is just rude.
Now, you might still face complaints about team-building when you say, "hmm, player 2 seems to me to be pulling away, I think we should all block him where we can". But at least you can't be accused of prompting/suggesting *specific moves* as alternatives to a player's announced move, because you won't be doing that any more. Focus on changing one thing at a time: you see prompting at the point of declaring a move as being the only way (or the best way) to change how players 3 and 4 react to player 2 taking a lead, but it shouldn't be the only way and they clearly don't like it. | This is similar to "kingmaking" in board gaming, which is a loose term to describe players who are in a unwinnable situation deciding on actions in order to ensure the player of their choice wins the game rather than the currently leading player. This can also be in the form of a collusion of players that cannot win themselves in order to help another player win rather than the currently leading player. This behaviour is very often (generally?) considered unsportsmanlike, as the kingmakers don't actually improve their game position and the player who earned (by luck or by skill) his current top position is de-throned, often (not always) out of spite.
Your situation is different, though, in that the colluding players actually gain from the collusion and can still win the game. In my play group, this is usually considered acceptable and only frowned upon if either
i) actual kingmaking is involved
ii) it get's excessive, where an all-vs-all game becomes a huge gangup and a player is targeted by a group of other players repeatedly to the point where the game only resolves around stopping that particular player, and the eventual winner is a coin toss among the rest |
32,013 | Recently we have had a number of 'explosive' games of Catan and Risk, where the game has become very heated because use of **'prompting'** or **'suggesting'** of moves to other players. I see this as a valid strategy, however one of my rival players sees it very much the other way and thinks it is unsportsmanlike.
To give a better illustration of the issue here is a scenario for Catan:
* It is a 4 player game, around half way through
* I am **Player 1** and am currently not leading the game
* **Player 2** is currently in the lead as I see it, and they are a good player
* **Players 3 and 4** are in similar positions to me, and look unlikely to win.
At this stage I feel like if the game plays out then **Player 2** has a high chance of winning, they are unlikely to make any major mistakes and it would take a sequence of bad luck to unseat them from the victory.
It comes up to **Player 3**'s turn, and they have several moves they can make. They initially choose to **attack me**. At this point I speak up and prompt another move that attacks **Player 2**, and illustrate that they are currently winning the game, and that they need to be stopped, implying a loose **alliance**. This play is beneficial to both **me** and to **Player 3** by keeping us in the game, but damaging to **Player 2**.
At this stage **Player 2** 'explodes'. I am berated for making such a suggestion, called a bad sport, and are accused of being of weak moral fibre.
Unfortunately **Player 2** has been a better *political* opponent as well as player, and has the backing of some of the other members of the group, as this is not the first occurrence. They have been building support for their 'anti-prompting' cause for a number of weeks/months.
I back down, and stay quiet, and watch a number of games go by that were largely *uninteresting* because of a lack of any **team play** to slow down the winner. Part of this issue is with the way the game operates, in this case Catan:
* You can see the progress of each player to within a 1-2 victory points in most cases, as well as how they trending
* The game seems to be decided quite early in many cases due to strong starting positions and early moves
* It has a large chance factor for starting positions and early resource gains
* By having only one winner it can be very cut-throat and does not explicitly lend itself to cooperation
The end result of these properties is that I feel many games are decided early, and the remaining 45-30 minutes is spent *going through the motions*. Ideally I would not be in this position, as the other players should see the *primary* threat and that we should work together toward a common goal of taking out the leader and then one of us may have a chance of the win. Unfortunately this is not often the case, and I'm not allowed to make any mention of this, or I get berated again.
Ultimately this comes down to trust also, if I suggest poor moves then no one will listen. The issue is that, as a strong player, my suggestions are often strong and insightful too, negating a major play or situation that has gone unnoticed. This is clearly *aggravating* for the player I'm doing this against (Player 2), but my only other option is to sit there and **let them win**.
Do you allow prompting in your games? Is it an issue? Do you think it is unsportsmanlike? Should I back down and keep quiet? How should I bring this up as a valid and accepted part of the game if I choose to try an get this included as an allowed behaviour in future games? | 2016/08/09 | [
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/32013",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/13655/"
] | This isn't really an ethics question, it's more that you and Player 2 haven't agreed on which game you're playing.
*You* want to play a game that involves loose alliances and table talk.
*Player 2* wants to play a game with strict solo play and no talk.
There's not much you can do here apart from agree, in advance, which version of the game you're playing. If you want to play the game differently, you'll need to play with different people or put up with agreeing to something you don't like. Careful phrasing of this can get you away from this being a right/wrong thing.
What you *can* do is bring games where open alliances are part of the game. That could well loosen up player 2 to come round to your way of thinking. **Diplomacy**, **Cosmic Encounter** or **Avalon** would be a good start.
All this is separate from the issue of people *outside the game* giving advice. Personally I find that to be bad form. | >
> At this stage Player 2 'explodes'. I am berated for making such a suggestion, called a bad sport, and are accused of being of weak moral fibre.
>
>
> Unfortunately Player 2 has been a better political opponent as well as player,
>
>
>
Fascinating. So Player 2 not only disapproves of you doing "politics" during the game, but also is heavily "politic'ing" outside the game. Did you consider that his "explosion" *is* actually metagaming? Why can he tell *you* what to do when *you* are not allowed to tell Player 3 what to do?
In our Catan games, the boardgame itself is usually just a shallow backdrop to the *real* game, which is the political stage. Everything goes, and people are rocking their best, and worst, in these games. Every kind of emotion is faked as necessary, all kinds of arguments are used. As long as the physical movements on the board are according to game rules (what is placed where etc.), it's perfectly fine!
If that is not the case in your group, I don't see what would help you, really, except picking another game. Catan in itself (without the political aspect) seems quite dull to me after a few rounds, because as soon as one pulls ahead, it's over, unless the others band together. |
32,013 | Recently we have had a number of 'explosive' games of Catan and Risk, where the game has become very heated because use of **'prompting'** or **'suggesting'** of moves to other players. I see this as a valid strategy, however one of my rival players sees it very much the other way and thinks it is unsportsmanlike.
To give a better illustration of the issue here is a scenario for Catan:
* It is a 4 player game, around half way through
* I am **Player 1** and am currently not leading the game
* **Player 2** is currently in the lead as I see it, and they are a good player
* **Players 3 and 4** are in similar positions to me, and look unlikely to win.
At this stage I feel like if the game plays out then **Player 2** has a high chance of winning, they are unlikely to make any major mistakes and it would take a sequence of bad luck to unseat them from the victory.
It comes up to **Player 3**'s turn, and they have several moves they can make. They initially choose to **attack me**. At this point I speak up and prompt another move that attacks **Player 2**, and illustrate that they are currently winning the game, and that they need to be stopped, implying a loose **alliance**. This play is beneficial to both **me** and to **Player 3** by keeping us in the game, but damaging to **Player 2**.
At this stage **Player 2** 'explodes'. I am berated for making such a suggestion, called a bad sport, and are accused of being of weak moral fibre.
Unfortunately **Player 2** has been a better *political* opponent as well as player, and has the backing of some of the other members of the group, as this is not the first occurrence. They have been building support for their 'anti-prompting' cause for a number of weeks/months.
I back down, and stay quiet, and watch a number of games go by that were largely *uninteresting* because of a lack of any **team play** to slow down the winner. Part of this issue is with the way the game operates, in this case Catan:
* You can see the progress of each player to within a 1-2 victory points in most cases, as well as how they trending
* The game seems to be decided quite early in many cases due to strong starting positions and early moves
* It has a large chance factor for starting positions and early resource gains
* By having only one winner it can be very cut-throat and does not explicitly lend itself to cooperation
The end result of these properties is that I feel many games are decided early, and the remaining 45-30 minutes is spent *going through the motions*. Ideally I would not be in this position, as the other players should see the *primary* threat and that we should work together toward a common goal of taking out the leader and then one of us may have a chance of the win. Unfortunately this is not often the case, and I'm not allowed to make any mention of this, or I get berated again.
Ultimately this comes down to trust also, if I suggest poor moves then no one will listen. The issue is that, as a strong player, my suggestions are often strong and insightful too, negating a major play or situation that has gone unnoticed. This is clearly *aggravating* for the player I'm doing this against (Player 2), but my only other option is to sit there and **let them win**.
Do you allow prompting in your games? Is it an issue? Do you think it is unsportsmanlike? Should I back down and keep quiet? How should I bring this up as a valid and accepted part of the game if I choose to try an get this included as an allowed behaviour in future games? | 2016/08/09 | [
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/32013",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/13655/"
] | You're asking the wrong question here. It doesn't matter whether a bunch of people on the internet think that suggesting moves is good or bad etiquette - the problem is that player 2 'explodes'.
The real issue here has nothing to do with gaming etiquette, and everything to do with dealing with interpersonal conflict.
The solution is, to have a calm discussion about whether suggesting moves is acceptable. If you find that you can't agree, then simply don't play with that player. Frankly, someone getting that upset about a game is not someone that I would want to be playing with anyway.
At the end of the day, you are playing the game to have fun. If you are not going to have fun, don't play the game. If the ending is determined half way through, then stop there. If the other player is trying to insist that you keep playing, but according to *their* rules, then simply concede - it's not worth the hassle of fighting them on it.
Note that you should only do this if the other player is really being a problem; if you're just getting bored in the game but the other players are having fun, you should stick it out - after all, you wouldn't want them to drop out when you were in the lead, would you?
If every time they start yelling at people about sportsmanship, then very quickly either they will learn not to do that, or other people will stop being willing to play with them.
On the other hand, if it's only you that has an issue with this, and the other players are fine with it, then you may instead find that *they* are no longer willing to play with *you*. In that case, you clearly have some fundamentally different ideas about what makes a game fun, and you should try a different game or a different gaming group. If the problem really is with you, then taking the above advice (about conceding when they start acting up) will just make you come across as a passive-aggressive a\*\*, so do try the conversational approach first.
**TL;DR**
Your problem is with the player, not the game, so talk to the player. Make an agreement before you start on what rules you will play by. If you can't come to an agreement, then don't play the game.
This question really has nothing to do with boardgames - I suggest you try posting it somewhere else (e.g. quora.com - they're good for questions like this). | Have you considered playing ~~better~~ other games? Catan and Risk are pretty much designed to be explosive in exactly the way you mention. Communication itself isn't the problem, so much as ease of manipulating an other player's strategy into your own.
For *fully* cooperative games there's Pandemic, Forbidden Island/Desert, and many others.
There's competitive strategy games where your immediate paths cross a bit less than they do in Catan. Think Puerto Rico, and Agricola (PR's been heated for me too though -- Agricola not so much).
Anyway, shop around. A lot of people feel a big sigh of relief when they find games as challenging and fun as Catan but without the constant clash and manipulation against each other. |
32,013 | Recently we have had a number of 'explosive' games of Catan and Risk, where the game has become very heated because use of **'prompting'** or **'suggesting'** of moves to other players. I see this as a valid strategy, however one of my rival players sees it very much the other way and thinks it is unsportsmanlike.
To give a better illustration of the issue here is a scenario for Catan:
* It is a 4 player game, around half way through
* I am **Player 1** and am currently not leading the game
* **Player 2** is currently in the lead as I see it, and they are a good player
* **Players 3 and 4** are in similar positions to me, and look unlikely to win.
At this stage I feel like if the game plays out then **Player 2** has a high chance of winning, they are unlikely to make any major mistakes and it would take a sequence of bad luck to unseat them from the victory.
It comes up to **Player 3**'s turn, and they have several moves they can make. They initially choose to **attack me**. At this point I speak up and prompt another move that attacks **Player 2**, and illustrate that they are currently winning the game, and that they need to be stopped, implying a loose **alliance**. This play is beneficial to both **me** and to **Player 3** by keeping us in the game, but damaging to **Player 2**.
At this stage **Player 2** 'explodes'. I am berated for making such a suggestion, called a bad sport, and are accused of being of weak moral fibre.
Unfortunately **Player 2** has been a better *political* opponent as well as player, and has the backing of some of the other members of the group, as this is not the first occurrence. They have been building support for their 'anti-prompting' cause for a number of weeks/months.
I back down, and stay quiet, and watch a number of games go by that were largely *uninteresting* because of a lack of any **team play** to slow down the winner. Part of this issue is with the way the game operates, in this case Catan:
* You can see the progress of each player to within a 1-2 victory points in most cases, as well as how they trending
* The game seems to be decided quite early in many cases due to strong starting positions and early moves
* It has a large chance factor for starting positions and early resource gains
* By having only one winner it can be very cut-throat and does not explicitly lend itself to cooperation
The end result of these properties is that I feel many games are decided early, and the remaining 45-30 minutes is spent *going through the motions*. Ideally I would not be in this position, as the other players should see the *primary* threat and that we should work together toward a common goal of taking out the leader and then one of us may have a chance of the win. Unfortunately this is not often the case, and I'm not allowed to make any mention of this, or I get berated again.
Ultimately this comes down to trust also, if I suggest poor moves then no one will listen. The issue is that, as a strong player, my suggestions are often strong and insightful too, negating a major play or situation that has gone unnoticed. This is clearly *aggravating* for the player I'm doing this against (Player 2), but my only other option is to sit there and **let them win**.
Do you allow prompting in your games? Is it an issue? Do you think it is unsportsmanlike? Should I back down and keep quiet? How should I bring this up as a valid and accepted part of the game if I choose to try an get this included as an allowed behaviour in future games? | 2016/08/09 | [
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/32013",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/13655/"
] | For Catan specifically...
Ganging up on the leader is part of the game. Attacking someone other than the leader for a personal gain is part of the game. Making mistakes is part of the game. Knowing other player's positions by meticulously keeping track of the details is part of the game (I tend to keep track of exactly which resources everyone has in their hands, and playing IRL I'll even watch exactly where each card is if I really need to pull an Ore from someone... they really don't like that ;) ). *Not* knowing players' positions because you are distracted is part of the game.
In my opinion, any information which is unhidden by the rules, like what resources a player has picked up recently, is fair game and I don't think it's poor sportsmanship for it to be discussed freely. Speculation, like if you think a player has a VP point card, can be tricky and really misleading to a newer player, but again, just in my opinion, it's fair game for discussion.
So to provide a suggestion for resolving this issue in your group, I would just explain to them that talking about the score and prompting someone about moves is all just part of the game. But you all have to remember that it's not necessary to listen to the suggestions. And **you** have to remember that the other players are free to play how they like, and that making suggestions to them might rub them the wrong way and ultimately come back to bite you, and that's **your** problem. Being attacked by Player 3 when Player 2 is leading is **your** problem, and you have to deal with it. Prompting them to attack Player 2 instead is one way to deal with it, but it sounds like it's not very effective, so **you** need to figure out a better way to avoid that situation. Because remember, getting screwed over **is part of the game**.
I think it's fine for you to prompt, it's fine for the other players to get annoyed, and it's fine for Player 2 to call you out. To me, that's all fair game. Getting frustrated is part of the game.
If your tone is: "You *should* attack Player 2 because they are going to win soon if you don't" that might be effective, but if your message is "You *need* to attack Player 2 otherwise you are an idiot and ruining the game", that's probably not going to get anyone to listen to you. So think about that.
Here's a tip:
A strategy I use online, not so much in real life, is as someone starts pulling ahead, I'll sprinkle in comments to suggest that player is *dominating* the game, and it can often get the other players to attack that player:
* "Wow, White's city on the ore is really paying off..."
* "Red has the best board setup..."
* "Blue can buy anything they need..."
And comments about how bad I'm doing (especially if I am doing well...):
* "Man, I should have built there instead..."
* "I can't get anything I need..."
* "I'm getting such bad luck..."
Playing online is different because you can't see what move a player is about to make, and there's no undo, so berating someone for a bad move after the fact usually gets you nowhere. Try slowly influencing the other players throughout the game, instead of suddenly saying "DUDE YOU GOTTA ATTACK HIM".
So even if you are totally right that Player 3 should attack Player 2 for the benefit of everyone, *you* have to find a better way to get into his head. You have to read the other players better and find a better way to manipulate them.
And you should suggest to Player 2 that he only thinks it's unsportsmanlike because he's not confident in his ability, because if he was good he would win anyways... they will be pissed at you at first but I bet they would change their attitude.
TL;DR; No it's not bad etiquette for casual play, but you can't expect everyone to listen to you and you have to understand there might be negative consequences for you for doing it.
**Updated TLDR**
Catan was designed for these kind of conflicts and questions over "morals" and "etiquette" to arise. It's intentionally ambiguous. | There are no rules saying you can't give helpful points to less experienced players. As a matter of fact I consider it my duty to point out poor playing choices to others. Even to my detriment. My goal is for everyone to have fun, and for me that is having good competition. Often I am the 'person in the lead' and if I just tromp the other players each time it certainly isn't any fun for them and for me it's like beating a 5 yo at chess.
Now if all players are close in ability then the prompting should be pulled back, but still, we use it to help reign in the leader. Generally we all do it to each other, and none of us 'expect' to just win. I actually find it even more satisfying to win against a group that are trying to foil my plans.
Personally, unless there is something in the rules saying otherwise it seems to me to be a poor sport who can't handle a little competition. Is it fun having a major plan foiled? no. but it's part of the game.
Of course it can be taken too far. I know someone (T) who played a game with a friend. The friend believed (T) was some mastermind on the game and played the entire game 'preventing' (T) from winning. He thought it was a great strategy. He didn't try to win, just stopped (T) from having any chance. THAT is not fun, I would also refuse to play with that type of individual myself. Even if I wasn't the target.
Ultimately, most of the time I consider that kind of table talk/prompting to be mentoring players to become better at the games. A teaching experience if you will. If all 3 of the other players at the board want you to shut up, then do so. However, anyone not willing to take advice deserves their fate. I would also seriously consider avoiding play with player #2. |
32,013 | Recently we have had a number of 'explosive' games of Catan and Risk, where the game has become very heated because use of **'prompting'** or **'suggesting'** of moves to other players. I see this as a valid strategy, however one of my rival players sees it very much the other way and thinks it is unsportsmanlike.
To give a better illustration of the issue here is a scenario for Catan:
* It is a 4 player game, around half way through
* I am **Player 1** and am currently not leading the game
* **Player 2** is currently in the lead as I see it, and they are a good player
* **Players 3 and 4** are in similar positions to me, and look unlikely to win.
At this stage I feel like if the game plays out then **Player 2** has a high chance of winning, they are unlikely to make any major mistakes and it would take a sequence of bad luck to unseat them from the victory.
It comes up to **Player 3**'s turn, and they have several moves they can make. They initially choose to **attack me**. At this point I speak up and prompt another move that attacks **Player 2**, and illustrate that they are currently winning the game, and that they need to be stopped, implying a loose **alliance**. This play is beneficial to both **me** and to **Player 3** by keeping us in the game, but damaging to **Player 2**.
At this stage **Player 2** 'explodes'. I am berated for making such a suggestion, called a bad sport, and are accused of being of weak moral fibre.
Unfortunately **Player 2** has been a better *political* opponent as well as player, and has the backing of some of the other members of the group, as this is not the first occurrence. They have been building support for their 'anti-prompting' cause for a number of weeks/months.
I back down, and stay quiet, and watch a number of games go by that were largely *uninteresting* because of a lack of any **team play** to slow down the winner. Part of this issue is with the way the game operates, in this case Catan:
* You can see the progress of each player to within a 1-2 victory points in most cases, as well as how they trending
* The game seems to be decided quite early in many cases due to strong starting positions and early moves
* It has a large chance factor for starting positions and early resource gains
* By having only one winner it can be very cut-throat and does not explicitly lend itself to cooperation
The end result of these properties is that I feel many games are decided early, and the remaining 45-30 minutes is spent *going through the motions*. Ideally I would not be in this position, as the other players should see the *primary* threat and that we should work together toward a common goal of taking out the leader and then one of us may have a chance of the win. Unfortunately this is not often the case, and I'm not allowed to make any mention of this, or I get berated again.
Ultimately this comes down to trust also, if I suggest poor moves then no one will listen. The issue is that, as a strong player, my suggestions are often strong and insightful too, negating a major play or situation that has gone unnoticed. This is clearly *aggravating* for the player I'm doing this against (Player 2), but my only other option is to sit there and **let them win**.
Do you allow prompting in your games? Is it an issue? Do you think it is unsportsmanlike? Should I back down and keep quiet? How should I bring this up as a valid and accepted part of the game if I choose to try an get this included as an allowed behaviour in future games? | 2016/08/09 | [
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/32013",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/13655/"
] | >
> They initially choose to attack me. At this point I speak up
>
>
>
Separately from whether alliance-forming should be part of the game, I think it's also worth considering whether *negotiating with someone after they've declared their move*, in an attempt to talk them down and make them withdraw that move and replace it with another, should be part of the game. This goes beyond just suggesting a temporary alliance, or discussing possible moves with your allies: you're telling your opponents that the choice they've just made isn't good enough for you.
Catan has no formal planning phase of the turn (unlike, say, Diplomacy, which more or less *demands* that you play by suggesting moves to other players and mutually discussing the options). So there has to be some flexibility about when moves are discussed, if they're going to be discussed at all. But you're persuading them at the most frustrating time. Quite aside from the fact that Player 2 doesn't want any plotting against him at all, you're not presenting the concept of teamwork to *anyone* in the best way by (as it probably seems to them) demanding that another player delay their turn until they've heard your arguments as to what they should do.
Having an idea who's in the lead and what a given player can do to obstruct them is part of the game, true, and players 3 and 4 apparently aren't doing this very well. Maybe they don't think about it at all, or maybe they disagree with the moves you'd prefer them to make for reasons that make sense to them even though with your superior strategy you know they're being fools to themselves. But the biggest problem is that they're playing badly, and this makes the game dull. Not that they refuse to let you argue their moves.
Therefore I recommend that you approach this by talking to players 3 and 4 (in particular, but 2 as well because excluding him would be a poor move both politically and in terms of friendship). Not initially about team play as such, but about the importance within the game of preventing the leader doing too well. Any teaming up is a means to that end, but it's perfectly possible for each player to come to their own individual conclusion who's ahead and what they can do about it. If you can persuade 3 and 4 *before the game starts* that their best chance of winning is to inconvenience you when you're in the lead, and 2 when 2 is in the lead, you won't have to interrupt their turns with your protests. If you can't convince them of that before the game, then telling them in-game which moves they should make in order to achieve a goal that they've chosen not to try to achieve (a close game in which they have a shot of sneaking the win), is just rude.
Now, you might still face complaints about team-building when you say, "hmm, player 2 seems to me to be pulling away, I think we should all block him where we can". But at least you can't be accused of prompting/suggesting *specific moves* as alternatives to a player's announced move, because you won't be doing that any more. Focus on changing one thing at a time: you see prompting at the point of declaring a move as being the only way (or the best way) to change how players 3 and 4 react to player 2 taking a lead, but it shouldn't be the only way and they clearly don't like it. | >
> At this stage Player 2 'explodes'. I am berated for making such a suggestion, called a bad sport, and are accused of being of weak moral fibre.
>
>
> Unfortunately Player 2 has been a better political opponent as well as player,
>
>
>
Fascinating. So Player 2 not only disapproves of you doing "politics" during the game, but also is heavily "politic'ing" outside the game. Did you consider that his "explosion" *is* actually metagaming? Why can he tell *you* what to do when *you* are not allowed to tell Player 3 what to do?
In our Catan games, the boardgame itself is usually just a shallow backdrop to the *real* game, which is the political stage. Everything goes, and people are rocking their best, and worst, in these games. Every kind of emotion is faked as necessary, all kinds of arguments are used. As long as the physical movements on the board are according to game rules (what is placed where etc.), it's perfectly fine!
If that is not the case in your group, I don't see what would help you, really, except picking another game. Catan in itself (without the political aspect) seems quite dull to me after a few rounds, because as soon as one pulls ahead, it's over, unless the others band together. |
32,013 | Recently we have had a number of 'explosive' games of Catan and Risk, where the game has become very heated because use of **'prompting'** or **'suggesting'** of moves to other players. I see this as a valid strategy, however one of my rival players sees it very much the other way and thinks it is unsportsmanlike.
To give a better illustration of the issue here is a scenario for Catan:
* It is a 4 player game, around half way through
* I am **Player 1** and am currently not leading the game
* **Player 2** is currently in the lead as I see it, and they are a good player
* **Players 3 and 4** are in similar positions to me, and look unlikely to win.
At this stage I feel like if the game plays out then **Player 2** has a high chance of winning, they are unlikely to make any major mistakes and it would take a sequence of bad luck to unseat them from the victory.
It comes up to **Player 3**'s turn, and they have several moves they can make. They initially choose to **attack me**. At this point I speak up and prompt another move that attacks **Player 2**, and illustrate that they are currently winning the game, and that they need to be stopped, implying a loose **alliance**. This play is beneficial to both **me** and to **Player 3** by keeping us in the game, but damaging to **Player 2**.
At this stage **Player 2** 'explodes'. I am berated for making such a suggestion, called a bad sport, and are accused of being of weak moral fibre.
Unfortunately **Player 2** has been a better *political* opponent as well as player, and has the backing of some of the other members of the group, as this is not the first occurrence. They have been building support for their 'anti-prompting' cause for a number of weeks/months.
I back down, and stay quiet, and watch a number of games go by that were largely *uninteresting* because of a lack of any **team play** to slow down the winner. Part of this issue is with the way the game operates, in this case Catan:
* You can see the progress of each player to within a 1-2 victory points in most cases, as well as how they trending
* The game seems to be decided quite early in many cases due to strong starting positions and early moves
* It has a large chance factor for starting positions and early resource gains
* By having only one winner it can be very cut-throat and does not explicitly lend itself to cooperation
The end result of these properties is that I feel many games are decided early, and the remaining 45-30 minutes is spent *going through the motions*. Ideally I would not be in this position, as the other players should see the *primary* threat and that we should work together toward a common goal of taking out the leader and then one of us may have a chance of the win. Unfortunately this is not often the case, and I'm not allowed to make any mention of this, or I get berated again.
Ultimately this comes down to trust also, if I suggest poor moves then no one will listen. The issue is that, as a strong player, my suggestions are often strong and insightful too, negating a major play or situation that has gone unnoticed. This is clearly *aggravating* for the player I'm doing this against (Player 2), but my only other option is to sit there and **let them win**.
Do you allow prompting in your games? Is it an issue? Do you think it is unsportsmanlike? Should I back down and keep quiet? How should I bring this up as a valid and accepted part of the game if I choose to try an get this included as an allowed behaviour in future games? | 2016/08/09 | [
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/32013",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/13655/"
] | You're asking the wrong question here. It doesn't matter whether a bunch of people on the internet think that suggesting moves is good or bad etiquette - the problem is that player 2 'explodes'.
The real issue here has nothing to do with gaming etiquette, and everything to do with dealing with interpersonal conflict.
The solution is, to have a calm discussion about whether suggesting moves is acceptable. If you find that you can't agree, then simply don't play with that player. Frankly, someone getting that upset about a game is not someone that I would want to be playing with anyway.
At the end of the day, you are playing the game to have fun. If you are not going to have fun, don't play the game. If the ending is determined half way through, then stop there. If the other player is trying to insist that you keep playing, but according to *their* rules, then simply concede - it's not worth the hassle of fighting them on it.
Note that you should only do this if the other player is really being a problem; if you're just getting bored in the game but the other players are having fun, you should stick it out - after all, you wouldn't want them to drop out when you were in the lead, would you?
If every time they start yelling at people about sportsmanship, then very quickly either they will learn not to do that, or other people will stop being willing to play with them.
On the other hand, if it's only you that has an issue with this, and the other players are fine with it, then you may instead find that *they* are no longer willing to play with *you*. In that case, you clearly have some fundamentally different ideas about what makes a game fun, and you should try a different game or a different gaming group. If the problem really is with you, then taking the above advice (about conceding when they start acting up) will just make you come across as a passive-aggressive a\*\*, so do try the conversational approach first.
**TL;DR**
Your problem is with the player, not the game, so talk to the player. Make an agreement before you start on what rules you will play by. If you can't come to an agreement, then don't play the game.
This question really has nothing to do with boardgames - I suggest you try posting it somewhere else (e.g. quora.com - they're good for questions like this). | Fascinating. I think on some level your friend player 2 and yourself are, as has been stated, playing a different meta game.
I gathered some opinions about this from my current gaming group (my wife and 12 yo) to see how this bounces off them. We all agreed that “ganging up” on the lead player is all part of the game, and should be encouraged. However, we all very much dislike the idea of telling other people exactly what they should be doing.
Couple things,
1. You stated that *after* player 3 declared their move, to attack you, you decided to point out how wrong this move was and they should attack someone else. While I would not accuse you of “weak moral fiber” (ha) I would say that this is kind of over the line. You might grumble a bit, and hope that player 4 does not also capitalize on your weakness, and address player 2, but player 3 already said what they were doing, so be quiet. That said, pointing out who is in the lead, and what a favorable position they have is perfectly fine between declarations, in fact encouraged at our table. Keep everyone in the loop, but maybe not suggest every move.
2. If I was player 2, and had played my game carefully and through a stroke of luck, player 3 decided to not press me, I might be a bit put off by your request that they attack me after declaring their moves.
3. Consider that Player 3 might have thought that attacking you (in Catan?) was more helpful to them, than focusing on the current leader.
Lastly, perhaps while you consider yourself “a strong player” in your words, the rest of the table is actually not impressed with your suggestions. Consider that maybe Player 2 is the only one who is vocal about it. Being a bit oppositional-defiant myself, I do not actually appreciate someone telling me what the “best” move is throughout any game, and maybe Player 3 is sick of your … attitude. Raising kids, I find that I have to back off and let them make mistakes so that they can see and experience the consequences of a less than ideal choice. When a person is not a strong player either because they are new, or just don’t want to spend the effort to become one, they might find much enjoyment out of just seeing what strategy A can do vs strategy B. When new, we might actually enjoy losing, because we were just trying to gather maximum wheat…. just because.
I do not want that last paragraph to sound harsh. I hope it didn’t.
I find that this gets MUCH WORSE with cooperative games like pandemic, where mostly, the group decides the best course of action, and there isn’t really much room for individuals to make any decisions. I’d suggest your group stay away from that one.
TL;DR Yes. After they’ve declared their intentions, it should be avoided. Nothing wrong with sweeping generalizations about the state of the leader, however. |
32,013 | Recently we have had a number of 'explosive' games of Catan and Risk, where the game has become very heated because use of **'prompting'** or **'suggesting'** of moves to other players. I see this as a valid strategy, however one of my rival players sees it very much the other way and thinks it is unsportsmanlike.
To give a better illustration of the issue here is a scenario for Catan:
* It is a 4 player game, around half way through
* I am **Player 1** and am currently not leading the game
* **Player 2** is currently in the lead as I see it, and they are a good player
* **Players 3 and 4** are in similar positions to me, and look unlikely to win.
At this stage I feel like if the game plays out then **Player 2** has a high chance of winning, they are unlikely to make any major mistakes and it would take a sequence of bad luck to unseat them from the victory.
It comes up to **Player 3**'s turn, and they have several moves they can make. They initially choose to **attack me**. At this point I speak up and prompt another move that attacks **Player 2**, and illustrate that they are currently winning the game, and that they need to be stopped, implying a loose **alliance**. This play is beneficial to both **me** and to **Player 3** by keeping us in the game, but damaging to **Player 2**.
At this stage **Player 2** 'explodes'. I am berated for making such a suggestion, called a bad sport, and are accused of being of weak moral fibre.
Unfortunately **Player 2** has been a better *political* opponent as well as player, and has the backing of some of the other members of the group, as this is not the first occurrence. They have been building support for their 'anti-prompting' cause for a number of weeks/months.
I back down, and stay quiet, and watch a number of games go by that were largely *uninteresting* because of a lack of any **team play** to slow down the winner. Part of this issue is with the way the game operates, in this case Catan:
* You can see the progress of each player to within a 1-2 victory points in most cases, as well as how they trending
* The game seems to be decided quite early in many cases due to strong starting positions and early moves
* It has a large chance factor for starting positions and early resource gains
* By having only one winner it can be very cut-throat and does not explicitly lend itself to cooperation
The end result of these properties is that I feel many games are decided early, and the remaining 45-30 minutes is spent *going through the motions*. Ideally I would not be in this position, as the other players should see the *primary* threat and that we should work together toward a common goal of taking out the leader and then one of us may have a chance of the win. Unfortunately this is not often the case, and I'm not allowed to make any mention of this, or I get berated again.
Ultimately this comes down to trust also, if I suggest poor moves then no one will listen. The issue is that, as a strong player, my suggestions are often strong and insightful too, negating a major play or situation that has gone unnoticed. This is clearly *aggravating* for the player I'm doing this against (Player 2), but my only other option is to sit there and **let them win**.
Do you allow prompting in your games? Is it an issue? Do you think it is unsportsmanlike? Should I back down and keep quiet? How should I bring this up as a valid and accepted part of the game if I choose to try an get this included as an allowed behaviour in future games? | 2016/08/09 | [
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/32013",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/13655/"
] | You're asking the wrong question here. It doesn't matter whether a bunch of people on the internet think that suggesting moves is good or bad etiquette - the problem is that player 2 'explodes'.
The real issue here has nothing to do with gaming etiquette, and everything to do with dealing with interpersonal conflict.
The solution is, to have a calm discussion about whether suggesting moves is acceptable. If you find that you can't agree, then simply don't play with that player. Frankly, someone getting that upset about a game is not someone that I would want to be playing with anyway.
At the end of the day, you are playing the game to have fun. If you are not going to have fun, don't play the game. If the ending is determined half way through, then stop there. If the other player is trying to insist that you keep playing, but according to *their* rules, then simply concede - it's not worth the hassle of fighting them on it.
Note that you should only do this if the other player is really being a problem; if you're just getting bored in the game but the other players are having fun, you should stick it out - after all, you wouldn't want them to drop out when you were in the lead, would you?
If every time they start yelling at people about sportsmanship, then very quickly either they will learn not to do that, or other people will stop being willing to play with them.
On the other hand, if it's only you that has an issue with this, and the other players are fine with it, then you may instead find that *they* are no longer willing to play with *you*. In that case, you clearly have some fundamentally different ideas about what makes a game fun, and you should try a different game or a different gaming group. If the problem really is with you, then taking the above advice (about conceding when they start acting up) will just make you come across as a passive-aggressive a\*\*, so do try the conversational approach first.
**TL;DR**
Your problem is with the player, not the game, so talk to the player. Make an agreement before you start on what rules you will play by. If you can't come to an agreement, then don't play the game.
This question really has nothing to do with boardgames - I suggest you try posting it somewhere else (e.g. quora.com - they're good for questions like this). | This is similar to "kingmaking" in board gaming, which is a loose term to describe players who are in a unwinnable situation deciding on actions in order to ensure the player of their choice wins the game rather than the currently leading player. This can also be in the form of a collusion of players that cannot win themselves in order to help another player win rather than the currently leading player. This behaviour is very often (generally?) considered unsportsmanlike, as the kingmakers don't actually improve their game position and the player who earned (by luck or by skill) his current top position is de-throned, often (not always) out of spite.
Your situation is different, though, in that the colluding players actually gain from the collusion and can still win the game. In my play group, this is usually considered acceptable and only frowned upon if either
i) actual kingmaking is involved
ii) it get's excessive, where an all-vs-all game becomes a huge gangup and a player is targeted by a group of other players repeatedly to the point where the game only resolves around stopping that particular player, and the eventual winner is a coin toss among the rest |
32,013 | Recently we have had a number of 'explosive' games of Catan and Risk, where the game has become very heated because use of **'prompting'** or **'suggesting'** of moves to other players. I see this as a valid strategy, however one of my rival players sees it very much the other way and thinks it is unsportsmanlike.
To give a better illustration of the issue here is a scenario for Catan:
* It is a 4 player game, around half way through
* I am **Player 1** and am currently not leading the game
* **Player 2** is currently in the lead as I see it, and they are a good player
* **Players 3 and 4** are in similar positions to me, and look unlikely to win.
At this stage I feel like if the game plays out then **Player 2** has a high chance of winning, they are unlikely to make any major mistakes and it would take a sequence of bad luck to unseat them from the victory.
It comes up to **Player 3**'s turn, and they have several moves they can make. They initially choose to **attack me**. At this point I speak up and prompt another move that attacks **Player 2**, and illustrate that they are currently winning the game, and that they need to be stopped, implying a loose **alliance**. This play is beneficial to both **me** and to **Player 3** by keeping us in the game, but damaging to **Player 2**.
At this stage **Player 2** 'explodes'. I am berated for making such a suggestion, called a bad sport, and are accused of being of weak moral fibre.
Unfortunately **Player 2** has been a better *political* opponent as well as player, and has the backing of some of the other members of the group, as this is not the first occurrence. They have been building support for their 'anti-prompting' cause for a number of weeks/months.
I back down, and stay quiet, and watch a number of games go by that were largely *uninteresting* because of a lack of any **team play** to slow down the winner. Part of this issue is with the way the game operates, in this case Catan:
* You can see the progress of each player to within a 1-2 victory points in most cases, as well as how they trending
* The game seems to be decided quite early in many cases due to strong starting positions and early moves
* It has a large chance factor for starting positions and early resource gains
* By having only one winner it can be very cut-throat and does not explicitly lend itself to cooperation
The end result of these properties is that I feel many games are decided early, and the remaining 45-30 minutes is spent *going through the motions*. Ideally I would not be in this position, as the other players should see the *primary* threat and that we should work together toward a common goal of taking out the leader and then one of us may have a chance of the win. Unfortunately this is not often the case, and I'm not allowed to make any mention of this, or I get berated again.
Ultimately this comes down to trust also, if I suggest poor moves then no one will listen. The issue is that, as a strong player, my suggestions are often strong and insightful too, negating a major play or situation that has gone unnoticed. This is clearly *aggravating* for the player I'm doing this against (Player 2), but my only other option is to sit there and **let them win**.
Do you allow prompting in your games? Is it an issue? Do you think it is unsportsmanlike? Should I back down and keep quiet? How should I bring this up as a valid and accepted part of the game if I choose to try an get this included as an allowed behaviour in future games? | 2016/08/09 | [
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/32013",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/13655/"
] | There can't be definitive answer to this question, as ethics generally doesn't provide hard guidelines. But I can suggest several points to consider:
* Think about Player 3 first in isolation from "you vs Player 2" shenanigans. Was suggested move directly helpful to them? Haven't you tried to play the game for them? It's about whole group, not just you and Player 2.
Try to evaluate "Player 3 is missing a move" situation, and act same way. Say, they forgot they have a port and traded some resource with highter rate. Would you tell them? Would they be grateful or annoyed if you tell them?
* Would you be okay on Player 2's place? If you are in the lead and other players gang up on you, how would you feel? Because if this practice will be accepted by your group, this will happen eventually.
* Where is your group on competitive/casual scale? I would forbid such "prompting" in tournament play, but I wouldn't have any problems with it in casual beer-and-pretzels play. Looks like at least you and Player 2 have competitive mentality.
* Catan is a game of negotiation, so I would expect highter allowance for such meta-gaming than in other games. Also, the decision is for Player 3 to make, if they're not ok with this play, they can just don't do it.
Ultimately, meta-gaming can fix the game as well as ruin it. And it doesn't end with "gang up on leader", there are a lot more possibilities like "I don't care about my own score as long as I don't let Bob win" or "Me and Sam will ally and help each other so one of us has better chance of winning than everyone else", etc. In other words, I don't recommend to open this Pandora's box unless you are sure.
**[Update]**
There are other things to consider aside from ethics, and one of the most important in games is *fun*. Right now you don't seem to have much fun with this game, so let's focus on this problem instead and analize some solutions.
The problem as it stands: there is runaway leader and all other player's chances to win are miniscule.
First point I want to add: If all players have about the same skill level the issue disappears without any need for prompting. Changing a group is an option, but rarely a good one. Then again, if you continue playing with same group, less skilled player should pick up strategies and get better, so eventually you'll have equally skill leveled group. Probably won't happen soon though.
Next, the problem is runaway leader. The means to mitigate it is not prompting itself, but "gang up on leader" strategy. Prompting is used to try to convince other players it's time to apply this strategy. This is the point I would try to explain to the group: playing with no chance to win isn't fun for everyone, so keeping leader in check makes game better. It's not about prompting, it's about general strategy.
If this point get's accepted, there might be no need for prompting, since players would try to apply this strategy on their own.
Then again, this shouldn't be all-time applied practice, because constantly ganging up on any leading player will just prolong the game and equalize scores. It should be applied cautiously to leave possibility for victory for other players when one of them is getting too far away. Although this is self-regulating behaviour, because ganging up on leader is not directly beneficial and unless there are no other viable options, players would chose more directly profitable moves. | This is purely based on your group and the people you play with.
This form of "prompting" is often als called **meta-gaming**. You *game* outside the *game*. With the people I frequently play with, this is abundant. It adds a new layer of depth to the game. You get shifting alliances, backstabbing, and politics during the game.
Another observation is that this levels the playing field (games are often decided within a few points), but also significantly prolongs the game. Most matches my group play go over two or three hours, instead of being over after one ore 1.5 hours.
On the other hand, when disallowing meta-gaming, the game usually has one clear winner, and ends more quickly, allowing for more matches.
However, there is a distinction between meta-gaming and out-right "playing the game for others". For example, if I only had a few points, and was attacked by another players, instead of him attacking a player with much more points, I would say something like "Are you sure you want to do this? I not a threat anyways". Or I would simply let him attack me, while pointing out that this decision wasn't -- in my opinion -- the best tactical one. I would never suggest a concrete move to another player, e.g. "use your knight at that crossing to get the robber away").
This can lead to some funny situations, like everyone at the table shouting and fighting and cursing (in a freindly, game-ish manner).
---
The problem is that you and *Player 2* disagree on whether *meta-gaming* is allowed or not. He clearly does not want to allow it, you seem to want it.
This can not be solved by looking at the rules.
I would suggest an honest conversation about it with your friends. This might involve you explaining that the game is not fun for you without some *politics* at the table. Explain hat you hate to see one runaway winner and not being allowed to do any intrigue against it. Try to explain how you think it *enhances* gameplay. One key point I would focus on is that a game with one runaway leade is fun for one person, a close game where each one can pull off a win is fun and engaging for four players. I have often experienced games that lasted for 3h and were decided within one round, with the winner gaining the last point just before the next player could make his move and also win. This kind of close games happen much more often when meta-gaming is allowed. Also, winning is so much more sweet if you had to battle three people constantly (because you were in the lead the most time), and is also much more gratifying when you can get the victoy in an unexpected coup. When the stakes are higher, there is more fun (imho).
Also, try to gauge what the other players think, but also try to gauge what fors of meta-gaming they think are acceptable. it might be that *Player 2* actually isn't against meta-gaming, but just has a problem with you telling others what to do. be open to step back and use more indirect forms of meta-gaming, if that is what it takes to each consensus.
So talk. But be prepared to be told "no". Your group might just enjoy playing differently then you.
but, **tl;dr:**
>
> Is prompting players with alternate moves poor etiquette?
>
>
>
Depends on the group. In my group, if the "prompt" is subtle and not to concrete, its more or less actively encouraged! You'd be seen as a whimp when not doing it. But you can also be frowned upon if its not wanted *within your group*. |
32,013 | Recently we have had a number of 'explosive' games of Catan and Risk, where the game has become very heated because use of **'prompting'** or **'suggesting'** of moves to other players. I see this as a valid strategy, however one of my rival players sees it very much the other way and thinks it is unsportsmanlike.
To give a better illustration of the issue here is a scenario for Catan:
* It is a 4 player game, around half way through
* I am **Player 1** and am currently not leading the game
* **Player 2** is currently in the lead as I see it, and they are a good player
* **Players 3 and 4** are in similar positions to me, and look unlikely to win.
At this stage I feel like if the game plays out then **Player 2** has a high chance of winning, they are unlikely to make any major mistakes and it would take a sequence of bad luck to unseat them from the victory.
It comes up to **Player 3**'s turn, and they have several moves they can make. They initially choose to **attack me**. At this point I speak up and prompt another move that attacks **Player 2**, and illustrate that they are currently winning the game, and that they need to be stopped, implying a loose **alliance**. This play is beneficial to both **me** and to **Player 3** by keeping us in the game, but damaging to **Player 2**.
At this stage **Player 2** 'explodes'. I am berated for making such a suggestion, called a bad sport, and are accused of being of weak moral fibre.
Unfortunately **Player 2** has been a better *political* opponent as well as player, and has the backing of some of the other members of the group, as this is not the first occurrence. They have been building support for their 'anti-prompting' cause for a number of weeks/months.
I back down, and stay quiet, and watch a number of games go by that were largely *uninteresting* because of a lack of any **team play** to slow down the winner. Part of this issue is with the way the game operates, in this case Catan:
* You can see the progress of each player to within a 1-2 victory points in most cases, as well as how they trending
* The game seems to be decided quite early in many cases due to strong starting positions and early moves
* It has a large chance factor for starting positions and early resource gains
* By having only one winner it can be very cut-throat and does not explicitly lend itself to cooperation
The end result of these properties is that I feel many games are decided early, and the remaining 45-30 minutes is spent *going through the motions*. Ideally I would not be in this position, as the other players should see the *primary* threat and that we should work together toward a common goal of taking out the leader and then one of us may have a chance of the win. Unfortunately this is not often the case, and I'm not allowed to make any mention of this, or I get berated again.
Ultimately this comes down to trust also, if I suggest poor moves then no one will listen. The issue is that, as a strong player, my suggestions are often strong and insightful too, negating a major play or situation that has gone unnoticed. This is clearly *aggravating* for the player I'm doing this against (Player 2), but my only other option is to sit there and **let them win**.
Do you allow prompting in your games? Is it an issue? Do you think it is unsportsmanlike? Should I back down and keep quiet? How should I bring this up as a valid and accepted part of the game if I choose to try an get this included as an allowed behaviour in future games? | 2016/08/09 | [
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/32013",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com",
"https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/13655/"
] | You're asking the wrong question here. It doesn't matter whether a bunch of people on the internet think that suggesting moves is good or bad etiquette - the problem is that player 2 'explodes'.
The real issue here has nothing to do with gaming etiquette, and everything to do with dealing with interpersonal conflict.
The solution is, to have a calm discussion about whether suggesting moves is acceptable. If you find that you can't agree, then simply don't play with that player. Frankly, someone getting that upset about a game is not someone that I would want to be playing with anyway.
At the end of the day, you are playing the game to have fun. If you are not going to have fun, don't play the game. If the ending is determined half way through, then stop there. If the other player is trying to insist that you keep playing, but according to *their* rules, then simply concede - it's not worth the hassle of fighting them on it.
Note that you should only do this if the other player is really being a problem; if you're just getting bored in the game but the other players are having fun, you should stick it out - after all, you wouldn't want them to drop out when you were in the lead, would you?
If every time they start yelling at people about sportsmanship, then very quickly either they will learn not to do that, or other people will stop being willing to play with them.
On the other hand, if it's only you that has an issue with this, and the other players are fine with it, then you may instead find that *they* are no longer willing to play with *you*. In that case, you clearly have some fundamentally different ideas about what makes a game fun, and you should try a different game or a different gaming group. If the problem really is with you, then taking the above advice (about conceding when they start acting up) will just make you come across as a passive-aggressive a\*\*, so do try the conversational approach first.
**TL;DR**
Your problem is with the player, not the game, so talk to the player. Make an agreement before you start on what rules you will play by. If you can't come to an agreement, then don't play the game.
This question really has nothing to do with boardgames - I suggest you try posting it somewhere else (e.g. quora.com - they're good for questions like this). | There are no rules saying you can't give helpful points to less experienced players. As a matter of fact I consider it my duty to point out poor playing choices to others. Even to my detriment. My goal is for everyone to have fun, and for me that is having good competition. Often I am the 'person in the lead' and if I just tromp the other players each time it certainly isn't any fun for them and for me it's like beating a 5 yo at chess.
Now if all players are close in ability then the prompting should be pulled back, but still, we use it to help reign in the leader. Generally we all do it to each other, and none of us 'expect' to just win. I actually find it even more satisfying to win against a group that are trying to foil my plans.
Personally, unless there is something in the rules saying otherwise it seems to me to be a poor sport who can't handle a little competition. Is it fun having a major plan foiled? no. but it's part of the game.
Of course it can be taken too far. I know someone (T) who played a game with a friend. The friend believed (T) was some mastermind on the game and played the entire game 'preventing' (T) from winning. He thought it was a great strategy. He didn't try to win, just stopped (T) from having any chance. THAT is not fun, I would also refuse to play with that type of individual myself. Even if I wasn't the target.
Ultimately, most of the time I consider that kind of table talk/prompting to be mentoring players to become better at the games. A teaching experience if you will. If all 3 of the other players at the board want you to shut up, then do so. However, anyone not willing to take advice deserves their fate. I would also seriously consider avoiding play with player #2. |
230,792 | I have noticed that regardless of a given script's execution time, every date() call will return the same timestamp regardless of where the function is called within the script. It looks like it just returns the time at which the script first started executing.
For logging purposes, it would be extremely useful to be able to get incremental timestamps from within a script. Is this possible? Is there a way to do this that is relatively lightweight?
**Edit:** Would the example for the [microtime()](http://us.php.net/microtime) function suggests it might do this. Can anyone confirm?
**Update:** microtime() does work, but I cannot format it with the date() function because date() only accepts timestamps as integers (so no microseconds). How can I get a properly formatted date from the value returned by microtime() ? | 2008/10/23 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/230792",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/5291/"
] | <http://us.php.net/microtime> gives me different times within the same script. | You can use the [Pear Benchmarking package](http://pear.php.net/package/Benchmark) for getting timing and profiling information. |
19,520,270 | Hello People more knowledgeable than me,
I'm taking some online courses for SQL and I am curious about something. With some instructors they draft script and don't seem to be concerned about ending simple commands with a ; however, other instructors seem to religiously add the semicolon at all times.
I'm just wondering, how important is the semicolon, should it be something that is always part of your script or does it not matter?
I know it's a pretty simple question, but the intro classes don't really define exactly why it's needed and since I'm seeing it used differently... I just want to make sure I understand.
Thank you! | 2013/10/22 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/19520270",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/2221523/"
] | Terminating semi-colons [will be required in some future version of SQL Server](http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms177563.aspx).
Although it's not currently required, it's not a bad habit to get into. | As far as I know, I neglect semi-colons all too much, and my scripts nearly never break. So my best guess is no.
Still makes the code more readable since you do add a layer of seperation in your code.
Oh, you must use them at CTEs though which aren't first in batch |
22,393 | I recently encounted a situation where some comic fans in my country gathered up and had a Comic Con and it was worth their effort on making their own costumes. They have spend a lot of their time and dedication to represent their fictional characters.
After the event was over I saw certain low minded individuals have used certain pictures of the cosplayers and have insulted them in vrry bad ways (memes and some relate to nudity) and it went viral. Some of those cosplayers were pretty depressed after that and all. And the other organizers and them defended them and now it has gone viral all over the world and everyone else is supporting.
This is the scenario I encountered. My question is what are the karmic and other type of consequences of insulting a person's character according to the Pali Canon? Can I have references to them?
-Metta | 2017/08/30 | [
"https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/22393",
"https://buddhism.stackexchange.com",
"https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/users/10105/"
] | I think the most famous sutta is [Akkosa Sutta: Insult (SN 7.2)](http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn07/sn07.002.than.html). | Akila, as for the possible reason of insulting:
>
> "There is the case where a woman or man is envious. He/she envies, begrudges, & broods about others' gains, honor, respect, reverence, salutations, & veneration. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is not influential wherever reborn. This is the way leading to not being influential: to be envious, to envy, begrudge, & brood about others' gains, honor, respect, reverence, salutations, & veneration.
>
>
> "But then there is the case where a woman or man is not envious. He/she does not envy, begrudge, or brood about others' gains, honor, respect, reverence, salutations, or veneration. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination... If instead he/she comes to the human state, he/she is influential wherever reborn. This is the way leading to being influential: not to be envious; not to envy, begrudge, or brood about others' gains, honor, respect, reverence, salutations, or veneration.
>
>
> [Cula-kammavibhanga Sutta: The Shorter Analysis of Action](http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/mn/mn.135.than_en.html)
>
>
>
As for the insulting itself, the ill-will harm, not with words and signs, such may the reason why people are often harmed, most ugly, the outsiders in groups and sociaty.
It's good to be reminded mainly to simply avoid such things by one self and good to remind that being insulted has having insulted as cause, when, and where ever it was, to do not fall in certain finily judgement, seeing being hurting each other. That's their ways they seek and think on Comics, what then attracting people by their fighting and insulting each others, do attract Comic fans.
One liking to watch and be joyful entertained by watching fighting, insulting, stories of winning and game, will be part of the movie which is in so far different, that the current hero is ever changing, does not stay with oneself. Watching shows, movies, such parades and Events... it all forces either greed, aversion, delusion grow in one.
Therefore the abstaining from entertainment and shows is praised by the wise and all Arahats and those following them did, do and will do likewise, Akila.
[*Note: This is a gift of Dhamma and not meant to be used for commercial purpose or other wordily gains but intended for Nibbana: so to be given without bounds to things like that*) |
547,125 | I have to design a electronics device that is specified for environmental operating conditions of 0°C to 60°C with 5% to 95% relative humidity (non condensing).
I think the temperature part should be covered with commercial component selection (0°-70° operating temp.), but what about the humidity requirement?
* Is this humidity specification hard to achieve?
* Do I need to protect the PCBA with conformal coating?
* What are the general recommendations for different humidity specifications?
Of course I will need to perform some tests in the climate chamber. But I think there should exist some general guidelines for the design regarding humidity? | 2021/02/08 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/547125",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/183815/"
] | For an electronic circuit, that specification is almost completely "bog standard". You likely don't have to do anything special to meet it.
Examples of things that are "non-standard" that you might have to take into account:
1. something that measures a field, capacitive proximity sensing, for instance, since humidity changes the permittivity of the air
2. something that has a "diffusion interface"--lots of biochemical sensors have a layer that the active species needs to cross and that can be sensitive to humidity
3. something that has a weird, non-standard package that doesn't hermetically seal the chip
These are unusual unless you're in a specific domain, and you generally know if you are.
Normally where people get burned is that their boards get put in a "condensing" environment even though everything is specified as "non-condensing". But that's not a design problem so much as a specifications issue.
tl;dr Don't sweat it and just do your design.
Good luck. | Spray application of an acrylic conformal coating would be sufficient for your needs however if you truly wanted to ensure the parts are protected and completely unaffected by its working environment, use Parylene C. |
11,863,597 | I am very new using JUnit. I want to test some classes that implements JPA. But, I have two databases, one for testing and other for development.
Normally, the testing db is clean. I test inserts, updates, delets, so and so, but any time I have to switch the db connection to testing db.
How can I have two persistence units: one for testing and other for development?
Thanks... | 2012/08/08 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/11863597",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/1464529/"
] | You can either have two different persistence units in your persistence.xml file, or you can have one, and create your EntityManagerFactory passing in a properties map that override the database parameters.
Your entities/mappings can be the same for both. | You need to use 2 sets of spring config files or configuration classes and reference the test configuration files in the unit tests. |
35,548 | I am designing a prototype of an electronics package that
* will sit out on a pole in the sun 24/7 with a
* max ambient temperature of 50˚C and
* at 30˚N latitude.
* It produces 50W of internal heat and the electronics are rated to 70˚C.
Currently, it is all housed in a grey polycarbonate box (approx. 18"x12"x6" hwd). I have room for a 100W air-to-air heat exchanger (I need to keep the box watertight which also precludes most vents) but from back-of-the-envelope calculations I can already tell that the solar loading will likely overwhelm the exchanger.
So, from the outset I have planned on putting a solar shield around the enclosure, but now that I have reached that point in design I realize that my heat transfer skills are more than a bit rusty and I'm having trouble fitting the solar shield into my thermal model.
I am just wondering if any of you have any tips, suggestions, or resources on how to incorporate solar shields and what their actual effects are on the cooling of enclosures.
Do any of you have any experience with solar shields?
I have contacted the major enclosure companies for white papers and did some Googling but it all seems very surface-level with not much being given to the driving theory or secondary considerations such as sky temperature or ground reflections.
I am currently leaning towards some sort of aluminum "shell" with an air gap because of its high reflectivity and corresponding reduction of emissivity inwards towards the enclosure, but I have no idea how to translate this concept into harder numbers to make sure I can actually reduce the solar loading to the point that the exchanger can handle it.
I should note that I work at a startup so my resources are a bit limited (in terms of consulting and labor) so I've found myself straying outside of my skillset quite a bit.
I appreciate any responses, let me know if I need to include more info. | 2020/05/04 | [
"https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/35548",
"https://engineering.stackexchange.com",
"https://engineering.stackexchange.com/users/26942/"
] | If you are worried about the solar radiation (which is understandable), a much more affordable solution might be to put the whole thing in a shade **if its possible**, with enough clearance from the actual shading material.
If you stick solar shields on the box, they are bound to get hot and, you won't be able to avoid conductive or convective heat transfer.
What I would use for the shading is a two layer material. One reflective (aluminimum) facing the sun, and a material which isn't conductive (wood or a ceramic).
It's a simplistic approach, but it may be more cost-effective. | Briefest start. Written from a hosp[ital bed just post operation :-) - better could follow if useful.
Solar loading will be peak in hours around noon.
Angles shift across year.
Find your site 0n [Gaisma](http://www.gaisma.com)
There are more relevant sites but that's an excellent start.
Peak daily insolation is typically ABOUT 1 kW/m^2 BUT this is site specific and can be about 1.3+ kW/m^2 in some cases.
Gaisma clearness value gives some clue.
If you add reflectivity to a shield you reduce transferred radiation proportionately.
If shield heats it will reradiate at that temperature.
Finning will cool an inner conductive surface.
If you add insulation layer to a shield with an air space behind then you can use insulation R value to determine wattage transfer through the shield and layer.
At best inner side can be at Tambient without evaporative cooling.
So best case you can approach is an insulated shield with an inner face at ambient. Now you have to decide if you can cool your box with a 20C delta.
Note that forced air massively improves either delta T of a heatsink at a given power or power at a given delta T or some mix.
Note that heat pipes can be extremely simple (semi evacuated tube or container with some fluid in with pressure arranged to cause fluid boiling at some target temperature).
Maybe with a wick, maybe much more.
With a heatpipe you can get heat out of a sealed box into a larger than otherwise available heatsink (forced or free flow)
Evaporative cooling is marvellous but probably not an option.
A PV (solar) panel as the sun side of a heat shield serves double duty - and could drive an otherwise unsupportable fan.
---
What does the box do - knowing may help solution finding.
What location?
50C ambient is only a relatively few places other than Death Valley.
30N - El Paso might get almost that hot on a hot hot day in June?
[Gaisma El Paso](https://www.gaisma.com/en/location/el-paso-texas.html) |
53,907 | I am quite new to CNC machining and want to design two parts which should be accurately aligned with each other. I searched online and many people suggest the use of two dowel pins to align the parts, rather then using the screw holes directly. For the 1,5x5 mm, m6 tolerance pins (spaced 20 mm apart) which would fit my application, H7 tolerance holes are suggested for a "typical" transition fit. However, I failed to find any information on the required positional tolerance of the holes to ensure the parts can be assembled properly.
Can anybody provide me with a pointer or some explanation on how I would go about figuring out the position tolerance for the holes? Any help would be highly appreciated, thank you!
**EDIT:**
Thank you for all the suggestions so far. I added a simplified drawing to better clarify my design intent. I want to ensure that when the two parts are assembled (by lightly pressing two pins into the left part, sliding the right part over those pin -- preferably by hand --, and fixing the parts together using M2 screws) the distance between the 4mm H7 hole on the left part and the 12mm H7 hole on the right part is within 11mm +/- 0,05mm (considering the position tolerances of those holes as well as the position tolerances for the alignment pins).
[](https://i.stack.imgur.com/Qir54.png) | 2023/01/16 | [
"https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/53907",
"https://engineering.stackexchange.com",
"https://engineering.stackexchange.com/users/39854/"
] | When a gear needs to freewheel on a shaft the bearing typically used is called a needle roller bearings. These use thin needle like roller instead of balls.
They minimize the space wasted to the balls and let the shaft be larger.
For lower power applications a plain bushing will also work. | You would typically need 2 ball bearings in that case. See the ball bearing has a point (ish) contact so to be able for you to design it carrying any possible axial loads youd need to have 2 ball bearings. If you use a needle bearing or bushing then youd be fine with 1 though you may want two in anycase. |
2,567 | Could we add a banner that says something to the effect that "If you care about photography instead feeding the egos of bigoted morons, go elsewhere!" ?
If you can't/won't do that, at least be so kind as to delete my account. The bigoted stupidity here has gotten *completely* out of hand. People doing "revenge" downvotes just because they're too bigoted to admit that their own "answer" was wrong, even when presented with clear photographic evidence is just too much! | 2012/10/22 | [
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2567",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/users/603/"
] | Jerry, I'm not involved in this, but I think you're overreacting. I saw the [pictures in question](https://photo.stackexchange.com/a/29135/1943), and I think a reasonable person could disagree about how strongly they support your point. You could edit your post to make the point of your exercise a little more obvious, because if one doesn't *already* know what you are getting at, I can see how someone could misunderstand without being low in intelligence.
Likewise, there's no particular reason to claim "revenge" votes. Itai's answer and yours both have (at this time) one downvote each. That could be each person voting down the other, or it could be some random observer who thinks one of you is wrong. It's really not worth sweating over, let alone calling names.
Mean, while, your comments on Itai's post are rather hostile ("if you're man enough"), and he's both done some tests and edit his answer to speak to the concerns you've raised, all without becoming particularly hostile. I certainly don't see any sign of either ego or "bigotry".
I hope you do stay, because your answers are often very valuable and present a unique point of view that we're better off having around. | I don't even know which answe is "correct", but that doesn't matter anyways. The entire spirit of the site is to allow for disagreeing answers.
The comments on the questions turned negative and quite mean quick I believe, and from what I can tell most of that didn't come from the other user.
You are a valuable user to this community, I hope you stick around and help us keep the site positive. |
2,567 | Could we add a banner that says something to the effect that "If you care about photography instead feeding the egos of bigoted morons, go elsewhere!" ?
If you can't/won't do that, at least be so kind as to delete my account. The bigoted stupidity here has gotten *completely* out of hand. People doing "revenge" downvotes just because they're too bigoted to admit that their own "answer" was wrong, even when presented with clear photographic evidence is just too much! | 2012/10/22 | [
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2567",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/users/603/"
] | Jerry, I'm not involved in this, but I think you're overreacting. I saw the [pictures in question](https://photo.stackexchange.com/a/29135/1943), and I think a reasonable person could disagree about how strongly they support your point. You could edit your post to make the point of your exercise a little more obvious, because if one doesn't *already* know what you are getting at, I can see how someone could misunderstand without being low in intelligence.
Likewise, there's no particular reason to claim "revenge" votes. Itai's answer and yours both have (at this time) one downvote each. That could be each person voting down the other, or it could be some random observer who thinks one of you is wrong. It's really not worth sweating over, let alone calling names.
Mean, while, your comments on Itai's post are rather hostile ("if you're man enough"), and he's both done some tests and edit his answer to speak to the concerns you've raised, all without becoming particularly hostile. I certainly don't see any sign of either ego or "bigotry".
I hope you do stay, because your answers are often very valuable and present a unique point of view that we're better off having around. | Apologies for my late evaluation of this topic. I've been very sick lately, and have barely been able to do the basic moderation of the site lately.
I'm honestly not really sure where this came from. Jerry, you have been a member of this site for some time, and I've never known you to get this angry about anything. I don't quite see what it is you believe was so wrong with Itai's answer, and I do not believe your disagreement with his assessment was really worth getting this upset over. I also do not quite see what you are describing regarding votes. You received a single down vote on your answer, and as it stands, you are only 1 point behind Itai who also received a single down vote. I see no evidence of extensive voting that would indicate Itai received more votes simply because he is popular...he only has ONE more vote on his answer than you do, and your answer was posted at a later date.
There is also no evidence that your single downvote was a "revenge" vote either. However it is well within Itai's rights to disagree with your assessment as much as you disagree with his, assuming he was even the one who cast the vote in the first place. I find it just as likely that the down vote you received had more to do with your attitude on that topic than anything else. While I don't believe such a reason for downvoting is helpful to the community at large, I can certainly understand the action.
Regarding the quality of your answer, the way you presented your argument makes it difficult to understand what you are getting at. As far as readers are concerned, they are viewing some anecdotal evidence put forward by someone who appears to have an axe to grind, more than an interest in offering useful help to the community. I'd offer that taking a photograph through the viewfinder via another camera, preferably one with macro capability, for both focusing screens, would go a LONG way towards proving your point with more viable evidence, as it would demonstrate the actual effect, rather than a the presumed consequence of the effect.
Finally, I heard when you asked for your account to be deleted. I have heard it several times now. You've provided a lot of answers on this site, a lot of valuable, worthwhile information. I'm honestly hoping this is just some moment in your life that is primarily driven by frustrating, **external** factors relative to this site. I'm hoping that there will be a point in the future when you wish to return. I am also loath to delete the account of a high reputation member that has provided so many answers. Deleting your account as thoroughly as you have requested would leave a gaping hole where all those answers are for nothing but an anonymous user. If in some time you still wish your account to be deleted, we can oblige, however I'll opt to do more of a "soft" delete rather than a complete destroy. If you choose to return in the future with a new account, I believe we could always merge the two and restore your previous status. |
2,567 | Could we add a banner that says something to the effect that "If you care about photography instead feeding the egos of bigoted morons, go elsewhere!" ?
If you can't/won't do that, at least be so kind as to delete my account. The bigoted stupidity here has gotten *completely* out of hand. People doing "revenge" downvotes just because they're too bigoted to admit that their own "answer" was wrong, even when presented with clear photographic evidence is just too much! | 2012/10/22 | [
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2567",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/users/603/"
] | Jerry, I'm not involved in this, but I think you're overreacting. I saw the [pictures in question](https://photo.stackexchange.com/a/29135/1943), and I think a reasonable person could disagree about how strongly they support your point. You could edit your post to make the point of your exercise a little more obvious, because if one doesn't *already* know what you are getting at, I can see how someone could misunderstand without being low in intelligence.
Likewise, there's no particular reason to claim "revenge" votes. Itai's answer and yours both have (at this time) one downvote each. That could be each person voting down the other, or it could be some random observer who thinks one of you is wrong. It's really not worth sweating over, let alone calling names.
Mean, while, your comments on Itai's post are rather hostile ("if you're man enough"), and he's both done some tests and edit his answer to speak to the concerns you've raised, all without becoming particularly hostile. I certainly don't see any sign of either ego or "bigotry".
I hope you do stay, because your answers are often very valuable and present a unique point of view that we're better off having around. | A user with low rep may often times not get as may upvotes initially even if the answer is identical to an established user. I believe this is both by design(IDs are not hidden), and by human nature. We can see users rep and many of us in the community learn to trust answers by established users. I can usually say about 99% of the time I'll upvote and believe what @stanrogers says because - from every past experience I've had with him, he knows exactly what he is talking about.
I'm not saying it is fair, or just to upvote someone solely based on their name, but if a seasoned pro on this site has shown past examples of knowledge and skill - I am much more comfortable to upvote an answer they have provided over someone with <100 rep. Reputation is just that - you earn it! |
2,567 | Could we add a banner that says something to the effect that "If you care about photography instead feeding the egos of bigoted morons, go elsewhere!" ?
If you can't/won't do that, at least be so kind as to delete my account. The bigoted stupidity here has gotten *completely* out of hand. People doing "revenge" downvotes just because they're too bigoted to admit that their own "answer" was wrong, even when presented with clear photographic evidence is just too much! | 2012/10/22 | [
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2567",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/users/603/"
] | Apologies for my late evaluation of this topic. I've been very sick lately, and have barely been able to do the basic moderation of the site lately.
I'm honestly not really sure where this came from. Jerry, you have been a member of this site for some time, and I've never known you to get this angry about anything. I don't quite see what it is you believe was so wrong with Itai's answer, and I do not believe your disagreement with his assessment was really worth getting this upset over. I also do not quite see what you are describing regarding votes. You received a single down vote on your answer, and as it stands, you are only 1 point behind Itai who also received a single down vote. I see no evidence of extensive voting that would indicate Itai received more votes simply because he is popular...he only has ONE more vote on his answer than you do, and your answer was posted at a later date.
There is also no evidence that your single downvote was a "revenge" vote either. However it is well within Itai's rights to disagree with your assessment as much as you disagree with his, assuming he was even the one who cast the vote in the first place. I find it just as likely that the down vote you received had more to do with your attitude on that topic than anything else. While I don't believe such a reason for downvoting is helpful to the community at large, I can certainly understand the action.
Regarding the quality of your answer, the way you presented your argument makes it difficult to understand what you are getting at. As far as readers are concerned, they are viewing some anecdotal evidence put forward by someone who appears to have an axe to grind, more than an interest in offering useful help to the community. I'd offer that taking a photograph through the viewfinder via another camera, preferably one with macro capability, for both focusing screens, would go a LONG way towards proving your point with more viable evidence, as it would demonstrate the actual effect, rather than a the presumed consequence of the effect.
Finally, I heard when you asked for your account to be deleted. I have heard it several times now. You've provided a lot of answers on this site, a lot of valuable, worthwhile information. I'm honestly hoping this is just some moment in your life that is primarily driven by frustrating, **external** factors relative to this site. I'm hoping that there will be a point in the future when you wish to return. I am also loath to delete the account of a high reputation member that has provided so many answers. Deleting your account as thoroughly as you have requested would leave a gaping hole where all those answers are for nothing but an anonymous user. If in some time you still wish your account to be deleted, we can oblige, however I'll opt to do more of a "soft" delete rather than a complete destroy. If you choose to return in the future with a new account, I believe we could always merge the two and restore your previous status. | I don't even know which answe is "correct", but that doesn't matter anyways. The entire spirit of the site is to allow for disagreeing answers.
The comments on the questions turned negative and quite mean quick I believe, and from what I can tell most of that didn't come from the other user.
You are a valuable user to this community, I hope you stick around and help us keep the site positive. |
2,567 | Could we add a banner that says something to the effect that "If you care about photography instead feeding the egos of bigoted morons, go elsewhere!" ?
If you can't/won't do that, at least be so kind as to delete my account. The bigoted stupidity here has gotten *completely* out of hand. People doing "revenge" downvotes just because they're too bigoted to admit that their own "answer" was wrong, even when presented with clear photographic evidence is just too much! | 2012/10/22 | [
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2567",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com",
"https://photo.meta.stackexchange.com/users/603/"
] | Apologies for my late evaluation of this topic. I've been very sick lately, and have barely been able to do the basic moderation of the site lately.
I'm honestly not really sure where this came from. Jerry, you have been a member of this site for some time, and I've never known you to get this angry about anything. I don't quite see what it is you believe was so wrong with Itai's answer, and I do not believe your disagreement with his assessment was really worth getting this upset over. I also do not quite see what you are describing regarding votes. You received a single down vote on your answer, and as it stands, you are only 1 point behind Itai who also received a single down vote. I see no evidence of extensive voting that would indicate Itai received more votes simply because he is popular...he only has ONE more vote on his answer than you do, and your answer was posted at a later date.
There is also no evidence that your single downvote was a "revenge" vote either. However it is well within Itai's rights to disagree with your assessment as much as you disagree with his, assuming he was even the one who cast the vote in the first place. I find it just as likely that the down vote you received had more to do with your attitude on that topic than anything else. While I don't believe such a reason for downvoting is helpful to the community at large, I can certainly understand the action.
Regarding the quality of your answer, the way you presented your argument makes it difficult to understand what you are getting at. As far as readers are concerned, they are viewing some anecdotal evidence put forward by someone who appears to have an axe to grind, more than an interest in offering useful help to the community. I'd offer that taking a photograph through the viewfinder via another camera, preferably one with macro capability, for both focusing screens, would go a LONG way towards proving your point with more viable evidence, as it would demonstrate the actual effect, rather than a the presumed consequence of the effect.
Finally, I heard when you asked for your account to be deleted. I have heard it several times now. You've provided a lot of answers on this site, a lot of valuable, worthwhile information. I'm honestly hoping this is just some moment in your life that is primarily driven by frustrating, **external** factors relative to this site. I'm hoping that there will be a point in the future when you wish to return. I am also loath to delete the account of a high reputation member that has provided so many answers. Deleting your account as thoroughly as you have requested would leave a gaping hole where all those answers are for nothing but an anonymous user. If in some time you still wish your account to be deleted, we can oblige, however I'll opt to do more of a "soft" delete rather than a complete destroy. If you choose to return in the future with a new account, I believe we could always merge the two and restore your previous status. | A user with low rep may often times not get as may upvotes initially even if the answer is identical to an established user. I believe this is both by design(IDs are not hidden), and by human nature. We can see users rep and many of us in the community learn to trust answers by established users. I can usually say about 99% of the time I'll upvote and believe what @stanrogers says because - from every past experience I've had with him, he knows exactly what he is talking about.
I'm not saying it is fair, or just to upvote someone solely based on their name, but if a seasoned pro on this site has shown past examples of knowledge and skill - I am much more comfortable to upvote an answer they have provided over someone with <100 rep. Reputation is just that - you earn it! |
505,633 | I want to run some test on hardware level. My goal is to create or find a way to control one computer from another down to BIOS settings changing.
For example:
1. Master computer sends a signal for slave to restart and opens BIOS settings dialog.
2. Master computer sends a signal to slave to change BIOS parameters and then restart.
3. Then slave fully boots up master starts up some software on slave.
4. Then software finishes operations cycle continues till certain conditions are met.
I know that I am looking for a complex thing but mainly what I need are correct keywords because now I am being flooded by BIOS configurations tutorials.
Main concerns:
* Is it possible without using any custom tailored chip?
* How can master monitor slave's hardware activity?
* How to let master handle more than one slave?
* What connections are needed to create this kind of setup? (cables) | 2012/11/14 | [
"https://superuser.com/questions/505633",
"https://superuser.com",
"https://superuser.com/users/166980/"
] | Devices like the "out of band" or "lights out management" cards are common on servers. They allow various methods of connection including TCP/IP from remote locations.
There are many from the big server vendors like Dell, HP and IBM but also some third party devices There are several examples of [Remote Management Cards](http://www.progent.com/remote-server-management-cards.htm) here | There are some expensive PCI cards and motherboards for that purpose, or you may use Arduino Leonardo with Ethernet shield to emulate USB keyboard and send keypresses to the slave computer if this is a small office / home environment. |
747,649 | I have a small asp.net website (using SQLServer express) on an T2.micro AWS EC2 instance running Windows Server 2012 R2. This is a very low volume site. It has been operational for 2 years without any issues.
I did Windows updates over the New Years and now everyday I am getting a CPU over 100% alert from Cloudwatch between 3:00 and 5:00am. This isn't users or usage, but likely some other automated process. My question is what is the best way to identify why this is occurring and if needed, stop it?
I look at the Event log and right before the alerts there are entries relating to "Windows Module Installer" under the source of "Service Control Manager". They are otherwise not descriptive.
I believe these could be related to automated updates. I did change the update setting to 'Download Updates But Let Me Choose to Install Them' so I was thinking that this process could be running during early morning hours.
Is there any better log or or way (through AWS perhaps) to identify what process is causing a CPU alarm?
Thank you for any guidance or suggestions! | 2016/01/08 | [
"https://serverfault.com/questions/747649",
"https://serverfault.com",
"https://serverfault.com/users/330805/"
] | After disabling the update service for one night, the alarm is gone. This pretty much identifies the cause of this alert. Now that you know this, you can ask if this is a problem. I think not, but I might be wrong.
I guess Windows has logfiles that can show you the exact time this happens. You can stay up one night, and try to see if the website still works. If Windows handles this correctly, it gives the website priority while updating, and the website should work, although probably slower.
The fact that CPU usage is 100% is not a concern. Monitor your own laptop, do an update or some photo editing, and you'll see the same effect. If this happens for hours, it's a concern and something to look at. If the harddisk usage was at 100%, that would be a concern for immediate action.
You can probably disable the alert for these hours, or set it to go off only after longer high usage. We use Nagios, and it checks for various things, like webserver response time. If it finds a slow reaction, it checks after five minutes again, then once again later, and then gives an alert. So you could set Cloudwatch for less frequent alerts during 3-5AM. | After updating my windows 10, it start a problem in my pc, High CPU usage. I am just fedup with a lot of windows versions and updates. I suffer few days with this problem. By studying online I found the problem is related with [Windows Modules Installer Worker](http://www.itphobia.com/windows-modules-installer-worker-high-cpu-usage/). I followed instructions of an article and it solved my issue. In my opinion, Microsoft should have control releasing Windows versions randomly and to be serious about releasing its updates. |
448,154 | I have a main C++ app built in Visual Studio 2005, called A.exe. It spawns a child process, B.exe. I run process A in the debugger by hitting F5 -- the only way I know to hit breakpoints in process B is to wait for A to kick it off, then run Debug -> Attach to Process, and manually select B.exe. This doesn't work very well if I need to debug initialization code in process B -- I have to start putting in 10 second sleeps at the beginning.
Is there some trick in the vs2005 GUI that I'm missing?
I'm using native code, by the way.
Thanks,
Nathan | 2009/01/15 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/448154",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/27130/"
] | You can tell Windows to automatically attach the debugger when a certain process is started (by specifying the process name in a registry setting).
The details are here:
<http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/a329t4ed(v=vs.100).aspx> | You'd be hard pushed to make use of the [debugbreak](http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms679297(VS.85).aspx) command in the child process as the debug process is not yet attached.
However, there is another that may be of use. Seeing as your creating the process, you'll have the handle to it. So give the [DebugBreakProcess](http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms679298(VS.85).aspx) function a whirl. |
65,298 | One day, a friend came at me, visibly excited and not having slept for a long time. He told me, I think, of a show he saw during the past few days:
>
> So, there was this guy, a ginger guy. We already know him, but after... I mean, this was before, you know, the book. Anyway, that's when he meets this other guy, he's not that tall yet, and they go on some adventures, it's pretty cool. There's also some women, many women in fact, and they're all supposed to be bad, but we learn that, well, some of them aren't so bad after all. I guess the ginger guy wouldn't like them too much though, plus he can't really meet them can he? Well, speaking of not liking people, did I told you about this other bloke? What a bastard! He thinks other people are bastards, but I tell you: he is the real bastard here! Quite literate though. But you should see how he treats that nice... hairy-beardy guy, that's a real shame! Anyway, he's nothing compared to "Mister Evil" there. At first you think he's a nice guy, a family guy, and that the young one is the jerk, but no! He's the worst! There's not uncertainty on this, the guy loses all of his principles in a matter of months. A real descent into hell, just like all these other people, with their phones, and their screens, and their pigs, and their technology...
>
>
>
He wasn't making much sense, and I have a feeling that part of his story is quite out of place here, but I can't figure exaclty which part and why. **Can you help me find what's wrong?**
Hint:
>
> Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if my friend didn't in fact mixed several shows...
>
>
> | 2018/05/02 | [
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/65298",
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com",
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/users/43465/"
] | There's definitely elements of
>
> Black Mirror: "A real descent into hell, just like all these other people, with their phones, and their screens, and their pigs, and their technology"
>
>
>
and
>
> Breaking Bad: "Anyway, he's nothing compared to 'Mister Evil' there. At first you think he's a nice guy, a family guy, and that the young one is the jerk, but no! He's the worst! There's not uncertainty on this, the guy loses all of his principles in a matter of months"
>
>
>
I also think that
>
> 'Bastard' might refer to Sean Bean's character from Game of Thrones, as Sean Bean is quite famous for saying 'bastard'.
>
>
>
As a guess at the solution:
>
> The connection I've come up with so far (though I don't think this is a complete solution) is that HBO produced Breaking Bad and Game of thrones, and Black Mirror is a show that started out being produced by Channel 4 in the UK and is now produced by Netflix.
>
>
>
Another guess at the solution (thanks to fanjie):
>
> All the shows have **Black** in the title except Breaking Bad, in which the main character's name is Walter **White**
>
>
> | Is this about:
>
> Harry Potter? He's not so tall at the beginning
>
>
>
Ginger guy:
>
> Ron Weasley
>
>
>
Some women:
>
> Hermione seems mean at the beginning of the show
>
>
>
The bloke:
>
> Malefoy
>
>
>
The hairy-beardy guy:
>
> Hagrid, being bullied by Malefoy.
>
>
>
"Mister Evil":
>
> I would see Harry's cousin, Dudley Dursley, because he's the one who seem to be the good boy in the first Harry Potter, and he become spoiled by his parents presents and technology. He also got a piggy tail in one of the movies.
>
>
> |
65,298 | One day, a friend came at me, visibly excited and not having slept for a long time. He told me, I think, of a show he saw during the past few days:
>
> So, there was this guy, a ginger guy. We already know him, but after... I mean, this was before, you know, the book. Anyway, that's when he meets this other guy, he's not that tall yet, and they go on some adventures, it's pretty cool. There's also some women, many women in fact, and they're all supposed to be bad, but we learn that, well, some of them aren't so bad after all. I guess the ginger guy wouldn't like them too much though, plus he can't really meet them can he? Well, speaking of not liking people, did I told you about this other bloke? What a bastard! He thinks other people are bastards, but I tell you: he is the real bastard here! Quite literate though. But you should see how he treats that nice... hairy-beardy guy, that's a real shame! Anyway, he's nothing compared to "Mister Evil" there. At first you think he's a nice guy, a family guy, and that the young one is the jerk, but no! He's the worst! There's not uncertainty on this, the guy loses all of his principles in a matter of months. A real descent into hell, just like all these other people, with their phones, and their screens, and their pigs, and their technology...
>
>
>
He wasn't making much sense, and I have a feeling that part of his story is quite out of place here, but I can't figure exaclty which part and why. **Can you help me find what's wrong?**
Hint:
>
> Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if my friend didn't in fact mixed several shows...
>
>
> | 2018/05/02 | [
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/65298",
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com",
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/users/43465/"
] | Your friend is confused because:
>
> He has seen several different shows (or movies) back to back and mistaken them for one show because he has seen the same actor in more than one show.
>
>
>
My guess at the links:
>
> **Sean Bean** was in *Game of Thrones* (the "bastard" reference) and also in the *Lord of The Rings* movies (meets a short guy and goes on adventures).
>
> **Jerome Flynn** appeared in *Game of Thrones* and *Black Mirror*.
>
> **Jesse Plemons** appeared in *Breaking Bad* (the mister evil reference) and also appeared in an episode of *Black Mirror* (although not the pig episode!)
>
>
>
The clue is:
>
> Your title "A story of manicheism". Manicheism was an ancient religion that blended elements from other religions into one. Your friend has blended elements from multiple shows into one story.
>
>
> | Is this about:
>
> Harry Potter? He's not so tall at the beginning
>
>
>
Ginger guy:
>
> Ron Weasley
>
>
>
Some women:
>
> Hermione seems mean at the beginning of the show
>
>
>
The bloke:
>
> Malefoy
>
>
>
The hairy-beardy guy:
>
> Hagrid, being bullied by Malefoy.
>
>
>
"Mister Evil":
>
> I would see Harry's cousin, Dudley Dursley, because he's the one who seem to be the good boy in the first Harry Potter, and he become spoiled by his parents presents and technology. He also got a piggy tail in one of the movies.
>
>
> |
65,298 | One day, a friend came at me, visibly excited and not having slept for a long time. He told me, I think, of a show he saw during the past few days:
>
> So, there was this guy, a ginger guy. We already know him, but after... I mean, this was before, you know, the book. Anyway, that's when he meets this other guy, he's not that tall yet, and they go on some adventures, it's pretty cool. There's also some women, many women in fact, and they're all supposed to be bad, but we learn that, well, some of them aren't so bad after all. I guess the ginger guy wouldn't like them too much though, plus he can't really meet them can he? Well, speaking of not liking people, did I told you about this other bloke? What a bastard! He thinks other people are bastards, but I tell you: he is the real bastard here! Quite literate though. But you should see how he treats that nice... hairy-beardy guy, that's a real shame! Anyway, he's nothing compared to "Mister Evil" there. At first you think he's a nice guy, a family guy, and that the young one is the jerk, but no! He's the worst! There's not uncertainty on this, the guy loses all of his principles in a matter of months. A real descent into hell, just like all these other people, with their phones, and their screens, and their pigs, and their technology...
>
>
>
He wasn't making much sense, and I have a feeling that part of his story is quite out of place here, but I can't figure exaclty which part and why. **Can you help me find what's wrong?**
Hint:
>
> Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if my friend didn't in fact mixed several shows...
>
>
> | 2018/05/02 | [
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/65298",
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com",
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/users/43465/"
] | A partial answer w/ thanks to Joseph Mulligan
There's also some women, many women in fact, and they're all supposed to be bad, but we learn that, well, some of them aren't so bad after all. I guess the ginger guy wouldn't like them too much though, plus he can't really meet them can he?
>
> **Orange Is the New Black**, a sitcom set in a women's prison.
>
>
>
Well, speaking of not liking people, did I told you about this other bloke? What a bastard! He thinks other people are bastards, but I tell you: he is the real bastard here! Quite literate though. But you should see how he treats that nice... hairy-beardy guy, that's a real shame!
>
> **Black Books,** a sitcom set in an eponymous book shop run by a misanthropic Irishman and his long-suffering hairy-beardy assistant.
>
>
>
Anyway, he's nothing compared to "Mister Evil" there. At first you think he's a nice guy, a family guy, and that the young one is the jerk, but no! He's the worst! There's not uncertainty on this, the guy loses all of his principles in a matter of months.
>
> Joseph Mulligan: Mister Evil is Walter White in **Breaking Bad** ('uncertainty' and 'principles' refer to the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle, and Heisenberg is White's pseudonym in the show).
>
>
>
A real descent into hell, just like all these other people, with their phones, and their screens, and their pigs, and their technology...
>
> **Black Mirror,** short stories about dystopian futures in which technology perverts, abuses, and erodes humanity.
>
>
>
So, there was this guy, a ginger guy. We already know him, but after... I mean, this was before, you know, the book. Anyway, that's when he meets this other guy, he's not that tall yet, and they go on some adventures, it's pretty cool.
>
> On the basis that we're looking for something black, why not let's give Black Beauty (an 1877 novel) a bash? A horse that starts out small, and whose best mate is a horse called Ginger (or possibly a ginger-haired human). There have been countless adaptations, but perhaps **The Adventures of Black Beauty**, a TV series beginning in 1972, is most relevant to the riddle?
>
>
>
As for the odd one out,
>
> All the TV shows have **black** in their names, except for **Breaking Bad**, whose main character is Walter **White**.
>
>
> | Is this about:
>
> Harry Potter? He's not so tall at the beginning
>
>
>
Ginger guy:
>
> Ron Weasley
>
>
>
Some women:
>
> Hermione seems mean at the beginning of the show
>
>
>
The bloke:
>
> Malefoy
>
>
>
The hairy-beardy guy:
>
> Hagrid, being bullied by Malefoy.
>
>
>
"Mister Evil":
>
> I would see Harry's cousin, Dudley Dursley, because he's the one who seem to be the good boy in the first Harry Potter, and he become spoiled by his parents presents and technology. He also got a piggy tail in one of the movies.
>
>
> |
65,298 | One day, a friend came at me, visibly excited and not having slept for a long time. He told me, I think, of a show he saw during the past few days:
>
> So, there was this guy, a ginger guy. We already know him, but after... I mean, this was before, you know, the book. Anyway, that's when he meets this other guy, he's not that tall yet, and they go on some adventures, it's pretty cool. There's also some women, many women in fact, and they're all supposed to be bad, but we learn that, well, some of them aren't so bad after all. I guess the ginger guy wouldn't like them too much though, plus he can't really meet them can he? Well, speaking of not liking people, did I told you about this other bloke? What a bastard! He thinks other people are bastards, but I tell you: he is the real bastard here! Quite literate though. But you should see how he treats that nice... hairy-beardy guy, that's a real shame! Anyway, he's nothing compared to "Mister Evil" there. At first you think he's a nice guy, a family guy, and that the young one is the jerk, but no! He's the worst! There's not uncertainty on this, the guy loses all of his principles in a matter of months. A real descent into hell, just like all these other people, with their phones, and their screens, and their pigs, and their technology...
>
>
>
He wasn't making much sense, and I have a feeling that part of his story is quite out of place here, but I can't figure exaclty which part and why. **Can you help me find what's wrong?**
Hint:
>
> Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if my friend didn't in fact mixed several shows...
>
>
> | 2018/05/02 | [
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/65298",
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com",
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/users/43465/"
] | A partial answer w/ thanks to Joseph Mulligan
There's also some women, many women in fact, and they're all supposed to be bad, but we learn that, well, some of them aren't so bad after all. I guess the ginger guy wouldn't like them too much though, plus he can't really meet them can he?
>
> **Orange Is the New Black**, a sitcom set in a women's prison.
>
>
>
Well, speaking of not liking people, did I told you about this other bloke? What a bastard! He thinks other people are bastards, but I tell you: he is the real bastard here! Quite literate though. But you should see how he treats that nice... hairy-beardy guy, that's a real shame!
>
> **Black Books,** a sitcom set in an eponymous book shop run by a misanthropic Irishman and his long-suffering hairy-beardy assistant.
>
>
>
Anyway, he's nothing compared to "Mister Evil" there. At first you think he's a nice guy, a family guy, and that the young one is the jerk, but no! He's the worst! There's not uncertainty on this, the guy loses all of his principles in a matter of months.
>
> Joseph Mulligan: Mister Evil is Walter White in **Breaking Bad** ('uncertainty' and 'principles' refer to the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle, and Heisenberg is White's pseudonym in the show).
>
>
>
A real descent into hell, just like all these other people, with their phones, and their screens, and their pigs, and their technology...
>
> **Black Mirror,** short stories about dystopian futures in which technology perverts, abuses, and erodes humanity.
>
>
>
So, there was this guy, a ginger guy. We already know him, but after... I mean, this was before, you know, the book. Anyway, that's when he meets this other guy, he's not that tall yet, and they go on some adventures, it's pretty cool.
>
> On the basis that we're looking for something black, why not let's give Black Beauty (an 1877 novel) a bash? A horse that starts out small, and whose best mate is a horse called Ginger (or possibly a ginger-haired human). There have been countless adaptations, but perhaps **The Adventures of Black Beauty**, a TV series beginning in 1972, is most relevant to the riddle?
>
>
>
As for the odd one out,
>
> All the TV shows have **black** in their names, except for **Breaking Bad**, whose main character is Walter **White**.
>
>
> | There's definitely elements of
>
> Black Mirror: "A real descent into hell, just like all these other people, with their phones, and their screens, and their pigs, and their technology"
>
>
>
and
>
> Breaking Bad: "Anyway, he's nothing compared to 'Mister Evil' there. At first you think he's a nice guy, a family guy, and that the young one is the jerk, but no! He's the worst! There's not uncertainty on this, the guy loses all of his principles in a matter of months"
>
>
>
I also think that
>
> 'Bastard' might refer to Sean Bean's character from Game of Thrones, as Sean Bean is quite famous for saying 'bastard'.
>
>
>
As a guess at the solution:
>
> The connection I've come up with so far (though I don't think this is a complete solution) is that HBO produced Breaking Bad and Game of thrones, and Black Mirror is a show that started out being produced by Channel 4 in the UK and is now produced by Netflix.
>
>
>
Another guess at the solution (thanks to fanjie):
>
> All the shows have **Black** in the title except Breaking Bad, in which the main character's name is Walter **White**
>
>
> |
65,298 | One day, a friend came at me, visibly excited and not having slept for a long time. He told me, I think, of a show he saw during the past few days:
>
> So, there was this guy, a ginger guy. We already know him, but after... I mean, this was before, you know, the book. Anyway, that's when he meets this other guy, he's not that tall yet, and they go on some adventures, it's pretty cool. There's also some women, many women in fact, and they're all supposed to be bad, but we learn that, well, some of them aren't so bad after all. I guess the ginger guy wouldn't like them too much though, plus he can't really meet them can he? Well, speaking of not liking people, did I told you about this other bloke? What a bastard! He thinks other people are bastards, but I tell you: he is the real bastard here! Quite literate though. But you should see how he treats that nice... hairy-beardy guy, that's a real shame! Anyway, he's nothing compared to "Mister Evil" there. At first you think he's a nice guy, a family guy, and that the young one is the jerk, but no! He's the worst! There's not uncertainty on this, the guy loses all of his principles in a matter of months. A real descent into hell, just like all these other people, with their phones, and their screens, and their pigs, and their technology...
>
>
>
He wasn't making much sense, and I have a feeling that part of his story is quite out of place here, but I can't figure exaclty which part and why. **Can you help me find what's wrong?**
Hint:
>
> Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if my friend didn't in fact mixed several shows...
>
>
> | 2018/05/02 | [
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/65298",
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com",
"https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/users/43465/"
] | A partial answer w/ thanks to Joseph Mulligan
There's also some women, many women in fact, and they're all supposed to be bad, but we learn that, well, some of them aren't so bad after all. I guess the ginger guy wouldn't like them too much though, plus he can't really meet them can he?
>
> **Orange Is the New Black**, a sitcom set in a women's prison.
>
>
>
Well, speaking of not liking people, did I told you about this other bloke? What a bastard! He thinks other people are bastards, but I tell you: he is the real bastard here! Quite literate though. But you should see how he treats that nice... hairy-beardy guy, that's a real shame!
>
> **Black Books,** a sitcom set in an eponymous book shop run by a misanthropic Irishman and his long-suffering hairy-beardy assistant.
>
>
>
Anyway, he's nothing compared to "Mister Evil" there. At first you think he's a nice guy, a family guy, and that the young one is the jerk, but no! He's the worst! There's not uncertainty on this, the guy loses all of his principles in a matter of months.
>
> Joseph Mulligan: Mister Evil is Walter White in **Breaking Bad** ('uncertainty' and 'principles' refer to the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle, and Heisenberg is White's pseudonym in the show).
>
>
>
A real descent into hell, just like all these other people, with their phones, and their screens, and their pigs, and their technology...
>
> **Black Mirror,** short stories about dystopian futures in which technology perverts, abuses, and erodes humanity.
>
>
>
So, there was this guy, a ginger guy. We already know him, but after... I mean, this was before, you know, the book. Anyway, that's when he meets this other guy, he's not that tall yet, and they go on some adventures, it's pretty cool.
>
> On the basis that we're looking for something black, why not let's give Black Beauty (an 1877 novel) a bash? A horse that starts out small, and whose best mate is a horse called Ginger (or possibly a ginger-haired human). There have been countless adaptations, but perhaps **The Adventures of Black Beauty**, a TV series beginning in 1972, is most relevant to the riddle?
>
>
>
As for the odd one out,
>
> All the TV shows have **black** in their names, except for **Breaking Bad**, whose main character is Walter **White**.
>
>
> | Your friend is confused because:
>
> He has seen several different shows (or movies) back to back and mistaken them for one show because he has seen the same actor in more than one show.
>
>
>
My guess at the links:
>
> **Sean Bean** was in *Game of Thrones* (the "bastard" reference) and also in the *Lord of The Rings* movies (meets a short guy and goes on adventures).
>
> **Jerome Flynn** appeared in *Game of Thrones* and *Black Mirror*.
>
> **Jesse Plemons** appeared in *Breaking Bad* (the mister evil reference) and also appeared in an episode of *Black Mirror* (although not the pig episode!)
>
>
>
The clue is:
>
> Your title "A story of manicheism". Manicheism was an ancient religion that blended elements from other religions into one. Your friend has blended elements from multiple shows into one story.
>
>
> |
13,790 | does anyone know if I can connect a usb MIDI device (my drum machine) directly to a controller port and have it recognised within the likes of Guitar Hero?
Thanks. | 2011/01/03 | [
"https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/13790",
"https://gaming.stackexchange.com",
"https://gaming.stackexchange.com/users/-1/"
] | A Generic USB MIDI device? No.
Xbox 360 games (like Guitar Hero and Rockband) actually receive input from their controllers are if they were standard controllers with a few modifications. By comparison a Drum Machine which outputs MIDI does not conform to the standards. More than likely the Xbox will not know how to handle the input and ignore it. | No you can't plug it directly in but if you buy the MIDI adapter for rock band:
you can use your drums with Rock Band 3. Quick links for the easy [shopping,](http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=pro+midi+adapter+rockband&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=ivnsfd&resnum=3&biw=1967&bih=925&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=1200976101452524836&ei=4ZEhTbeYFMO78gbl6sSbDg&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CFgQ8wIwAw#) |
21,187 | I recently learned that I don't need to buy packets of yeast to make bread. I can create a sour dough starter by utilizing the wild yeast floating around in the air. Take a look at this article for more information:
<http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/edible-innovations/sourdough2.htm>
What are the optimal conditions for creating a sour dough starter:
* Are there optimal locations that has a higher concentration of wild yeast? (such as a cold/warm place or a place with alot/little light)
* What type of flour would work best?
* I also read somewhere to use acidic fruit juice to help accelerate the process. Is this true? And if so, why?
* Some starters call for sugar and milk. What would these additions do? | 2012/02/08 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/21187",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/8305/"
] | Some answers to your questions, based on my experience with wild sourdough starter in San Francisco:
* 70-80F is the ideal temperature range. Below that the yeast incubates very slowly; above it, the starter will tend to ferment alcoholically.
* Do not leave the starter in direct sun. UV light is a powerful sterilizing agent.
* An organic, cold-processed (i.e. stone milled) flour works best, because it will retain the maximum amount of its own wild yeast on it. *Cheeseboard: Collective Works* likes to start with rye flour and gradually add bread flour, but they don't give a tested reason for this.
* I have never heard of using fruit juice in a sourdough starter. I would be dubious about it; you'd be likely to end up with vinegar.
* Sugar is unnecessary for sourdough starters.
* Use purified water; chlorine/chloramine/ozone in tap water can kill your starter.
Finally, starters incorporating milk are fridge-only starters (as opposed to flour-and-water starters, which can be kept at room temperature if split frequently) which depend on the bacteria and lactic acid from the fermenting milk for part of their sourness. They can be effective, and actually a good choice if you live somewhere with weak/poor wild yeast. Note that you cannot transform a milk sourdough into a water sourdough, and using up 2 cups of milk every 2 weeks is more expensive than 2 cups of filtered water. | Although there are ideal conditions for sourdough, it colonises the yeast very easily so many of these measures may be unnecessary. Likewise, if you live in an area with just a low volume of yeast spores in the air then these measures may not even help, although they will make it a much friendlier environment for yeast to grow in.
In its most basic form a sourdough starter is made of flour and water (warm, not hot or cold). Technically this is enough, as all the yeast needs to do is convert the complex sugars (ie starch) into simple sugars with there naturally occurring enzyme amylase, they can then 'eat' the sugars and produce CO2. It takes time for the yeast to produce the amylase and convert the complex sugars into simple sugars so sometimes regular caster sugar is added to speed up the process. That's why I think the milk and juices might be added as they contain additional sugars, however as mentioned in the previous answer it will be a lot more expensive than if you use water.
Until the yeast has been colonized you should keep the starter in a warm place, no warmer than blood temperature. Once it is clearly fermenting there is no need to keep it warm as it will respire to quickly and so it's best to keep it at room temperature, but not somewhere cold and draughty.
The yeast in the starter dough do not contain chloroplasts so cannot photosynthesise, this means it won't make any difference whether its in the dark or light. Unless it is in too much light as the UV will damage the cells, don't fret if you've done this as it won't work immediately especially with the flour acting as a kind of barrier, but it isn't good.
Unbleached, organic flours work best as they haven't any pesticides used that could stifle growth. Whole wheat is best as it has the husk left so it's more likely to contain yeast. I don't often use these organic flours so I don't have any and I always use normal flours and it works fine, do its not necessary but I can imagine it certainly helps. |
21,187 | I recently learned that I don't need to buy packets of yeast to make bread. I can create a sour dough starter by utilizing the wild yeast floating around in the air. Take a look at this article for more information:
<http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/edible-innovations/sourdough2.htm>
What are the optimal conditions for creating a sour dough starter:
* Are there optimal locations that has a higher concentration of wild yeast? (such as a cold/warm place or a place with alot/little light)
* What type of flour would work best?
* I also read somewhere to use acidic fruit juice to help accelerate the process. Is this true? And if so, why?
* Some starters call for sugar and milk. What would these additions do? | 2012/02/08 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/21187",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/8305/"
] | Some answers to your questions, based on my experience with wild sourdough starter in San Francisco:
* 70-80F is the ideal temperature range. Below that the yeast incubates very slowly; above it, the starter will tend to ferment alcoholically.
* Do not leave the starter in direct sun. UV light is a powerful sterilizing agent.
* An organic, cold-processed (i.e. stone milled) flour works best, because it will retain the maximum amount of its own wild yeast on it. *Cheeseboard: Collective Works* likes to start with rye flour and gradually add bread flour, but they don't give a tested reason for this.
* I have never heard of using fruit juice in a sourdough starter. I would be dubious about it; you'd be likely to end up with vinegar.
* Sugar is unnecessary for sourdough starters.
* Use purified water; chlorine/chloramine/ozone in tap water can kill your starter.
Finally, starters incorporating milk are fridge-only starters (as opposed to flour-and-water starters, which can be kept at room temperature if split frequently) which depend on the bacteria and lactic acid from the fermenting milk for part of their sourness. They can be effective, and actually a good choice if you live somewhere with weak/poor wild yeast. Note that you cannot transform a milk sourdough into a water sourdough, and using up 2 cups of milk every 2 weeks is more expensive than 2 cups of filtered water. | I believe we are talking about *wild* yeast starter: that means capturing the beasties that are freely floating in air not rehydrating a pure starter.
Here is where it gets to be work: there are alot of unwanted beasties tagging along in your chosen medium. They will die off thru any of a number of protocols for DIY sourdough starter.
Usually, reckon on three days of taking a bit of the older batch and creating a new one until the PH and food source and enzymes all crowd out the baddies.
Did this in school years ago and now am grateful for properly cultured starters!
Oh, and if your kitchen is sterile then wine-grapes are a trove of yeastiness. Though their natural inclination is to become wine, France has some lovely breads that borrow beasties from these fine fruits. |
21,187 | I recently learned that I don't need to buy packets of yeast to make bread. I can create a sour dough starter by utilizing the wild yeast floating around in the air. Take a look at this article for more information:
<http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/edible-innovations/sourdough2.htm>
What are the optimal conditions for creating a sour dough starter:
* Are there optimal locations that has a higher concentration of wild yeast? (such as a cold/warm place or a place with alot/little light)
* What type of flour would work best?
* I also read somewhere to use acidic fruit juice to help accelerate the process. Is this true? And if so, why?
* Some starters call for sugar and milk. What would these additions do? | 2012/02/08 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/21187",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/8305/"
] | Some answers to your questions, based on my experience with wild sourdough starter in San Francisco:
* 70-80F is the ideal temperature range. Below that the yeast incubates very slowly; above it, the starter will tend to ferment alcoholically.
* Do not leave the starter in direct sun. UV light is a powerful sterilizing agent.
* An organic, cold-processed (i.e. stone milled) flour works best, because it will retain the maximum amount of its own wild yeast on it. *Cheeseboard: Collective Works* likes to start with rye flour and gradually add bread flour, but they don't give a tested reason for this.
* I have never heard of using fruit juice in a sourdough starter. I would be dubious about it; you'd be likely to end up with vinegar.
* Sugar is unnecessary for sourdough starters.
* Use purified water; chlorine/chloramine/ozone in tap water can kill your starter.
Finally, starters incorporating milk are fridge-only starters (as opposed to flour-and-water starters, which can be kept at room temperature if split frequently) which depend on the bacteria and lactic acid from the fermenting milk for part of their sourness. They can be effective, and actually a good choice if you live somewhere with weak/poor wild yeast. Note that you cannot transform a milk sourdough into a water sourdough, and using up 2 cups of milk every 2 weeks is more expensive than 2 cups of filtered water. | For years I have made my starter out of store bought all purpose flour and yeast. I then wait until it quits bubbling and store it in household refrigerator.
Generally I do not have to make new starter after using a bit for pancakes or sourdough bread.
All that is necessary is to add a tablespoon of sugar, stir and refrigerate.
To replenish the supply, I add 1c flour, 2T. sugar, & 1c warm water. Stir and let stand in warm kitchen until bubbly action stops and then refrigerate.
This has been quite successful enjoying the praise of all that consume my bread. |
21,187 | I recently learned that I don't need to buy packets of yeast to make bread. I can create a sour dough starter by utilizing the wild yeast floating around in the air. Take a look at this article for more information:
<http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/edible-innovations/sourdough2.htm>
What are the optimal conditions for creating a sour dough starter:
* Are there optimal locations that has a higher concentration of wild yeast? (such as a cold/warm place or a place with alot/little light)
* What type of flour would work best?
* I also read somewhere to use acidic fruit juice to help accelerate the process. Is this true? And if so, why?
* Some starters call for sugar and milk. What would these additions do? | 2012/02/08 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/21187",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/8305/"
] | Some answers to your questions, based on my experience with wild sourdough starter in San Francisco:
* 70-80F is the ideal temperature range. Below that the yeast incubates very slowly; above it, the starter will tend to ferment alcoholically.
* Do not leave the starter in direct sun. UV light is a powerful sterilizing agent.
* An organic, cold-processed (i.e. stone milled) flour works best, because it will retain the maximum amount of its own wild yeast on it. *Cheeseboard: Collective Works* likes to start with rye flour and gradually add bread flour, but they don't give a tested reason for this.
* I have never heard of using fruit juice in a sourdough starter. I would be dubious about it; you'd be likely to end up with vinegar.
* Sugar is unnecessary for sourdough starters.
* Use purified water; chlorine/chloramine/ozone in tap water can kill your starter.
Finally, starters incorporating milk are fridge-only starters (as opposed to flour-and-water starters, which can be kept at room temperature if split frequently) which depend on the bacteria and lactic acid from the fermenting milk for part of their sourness. They can be effective, and actually a good choice if you live somewhere with weak/poor wild yeast. Note that you cannot transform a milk sourdough into a water sourdough, and using up 2 cups of milk every 2 weeks is more expensive than 2 cups of filtered water. | (1) One critical element that hasn't been emphasized in answers so far is that the microorganisms that establish your starter mostly come from *the flour* not the air. The idea that the creation of a starter involves "catching wild yeast from the air" is commonly repeated in many, many books and resources, but I'd be interested if anyone has ever seen a scientific paper that actually verified that airborne yeast is a significant source for establishing sourdough cultures. (I've looked a bit, and I haven't seen that. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence for a variety of microorganisms, including local ones, in established cultures. But the primary establishing microorganisms come from mainly from the flour.)
A number of people have reported experiments to test the conditions necessary for establishing a successful starter, including ones where they tried their best to kill all starters. Sterilized containers and mixing equipment, sealed containers, and sterilized water have little impact. But sterilized flour will almost always fail to produce a viable starter. (It also makes sense that yeasts and bacteria that would like to eat grain would be likely to be found living on it at a higher concentration that floating around in the air....)
In any case, now that we've established the primary source of the microorganisms, the main goal in a new starter is to provide them with adequate food and a growth environment that will weed out other undesirable organisms. Personally, I've had the best results in beginning with a starter regime that somewhat simulates the life cycle I ultimately want for my starter. Since I generally raise dough at room temperature and expect to feed a room temperature starter roughly every 12 hours to keep it healthy, I do the same when beginning my starter.
But that's just my preference. You can get a starter going with temperatures anywhere from about 55F to 85F -- below that, and the yeast will grow way too slowly, and above that, and you're likely to grow bad stuff in the first week of a new starter. As others have said, 70-80 degrees is probably optimal for quickly establishing a starter. On the other hand, lower temperatures will tend to produce an acidic environment more quickly, which will weed out the first batch of bad bacteria. So, take your pick. As for feeding schedule, it really depends on your preferences, temperature, and hydration level. I wouldn't wait more than about 24 hours between initial feedings, but extra ones don't seem to hurt.
In terms of other conditions, you mainly just want to avoid contamination from other bad stuff, since you're encouraging growth from the flour. Thus, keep the container covered (though not sealed tight -- it can explode, which I know from experience), and out of sunlight (which encourages mold growth). Trying to "catch the yeast from the air" by placing it near an open window or something is more likely than not to contaminate the starter and cause it to fail. I haven't been overly fussy about sterilizing containers or stirring utensils, as long as they are reasonably clean. I also haven't personally had any problem using tap water from a number of different municipalities -- I know some people have said it kills starters, but it never killed mine. To be safe, use water without chemical treatments. But if you plan to use tap water in your doughs, I do believe that you want to start selecting microorganisms that won't be killed from it at the start.
Hydration varies a lot, and I've seen successes with all types of starters. Most people seem to go with about 100% hydration (equal weights of flour and water). That starts out as a thick paste and will become a little "goupy" as the days go by. Others go with higher hydration (like pancake batter), while others make a very dry dough, kneading as much flour as possible into the water, and then bury the dough in a container of flour to ferment. I haven't really seen anyone compare success rates of these various approaches, since everyone seems to have their preferred starter type, but I've found that all of them can work. If anything, the most problematic for me seems to be high hydration: they tend to grow weird stuff in the first week unless fed frequently. With a dry ball starter buried in flour and kept at a cellar temperature, you could probably feed it only a couple times a week and still be successful in getting a starter going.
That covers a lot of the "conditions" question. In sum, a wide range of conditions can work -- just avoid contamination and keep out of the sun. Feed on a regular basis. Don't throw any random stuff in your starter (milk, sugar, grapes, potatoes, beer, whatever) -- in most cases, it is more likely to hurt through contamination rather than help. (See the note about acids below, however...)
Moving on to the other questions:
(2) Whole grain flours work best, since they have a greater number of microorganisms than white flours. I've had greater success with rye, which has different sugars than wheat, but I know other people who swear by whole wheat. I've had a few starters with white flour fail, though, so I've given up trying to start that way. I'd suggest if you want a white flour starter, establish it with whole grains first, and then transition it to feedings with white flour after a couple weeks.
(3) Acidic ingredients can help a starter in the first 3 days or so. Basically, most starters go through a phase after about 2-3 days where you'll see very rapid growth. Don't get hopeful -- that is rarely due to good yeast. Instead, experiments have shown that it is due to a bad bacteria, and unless it is weeded out of your starter, it can prevent the good yeasts and bacteria from getting established.
Luckily, the bad bacteria produce waste products that tend to acidify the starter anyway, and eventually they will acidify it enough so that they can't grow anymore. Sourdough yeast and bacteria are selected to live in acidic conditions (hence, "sour" dough), so they will eventually take over.
Nevertheless, you can help out this weeding out process by giving an acidic boost early on. The simplest way to do this is built into many recipes. Instead of doing a typical sourdough feeding where you double or triple the weight of the starter, many recipes suggest only feeding the same amount for the first 3-4 days of a new starter. So, if you start with 10 units of flour and 10 units of water, you just keeping adding 10 units of each at each feeding. By the fourth or fifth feeding, you're only going to be adding a small amount of new food compared to the overall size of the starter. That will still help the yeast grow, but it will concentrate the acid produced in the starter so far and stop the bad bacteria from establishing itself.
(Note: You don't need a lot of flour to get things going. Even a small amount has a huge amount of microorganisms ready to grow. I usually start with a tiny amount, say 10 grams each of flour and water, and then feed 10 grams each with each feeding. Don't throw any away. After a few days to a week, you'll often be ready to bake your first loaf, and you don't end up wasting any ingredients.)
A number of online experimenters have tried using other acidic components at the outset, and the easiest option does seem to be pineapple juice used in place of water in at least the initial feeding. Orange juice and apple cider can also work if used in the feedings for the first few days. Other acids (e.g., vinegar, lemon juice) can work, but it's harder to get the "dose" right. The most effective seems to be a dose of ascorbic acid powder added at the outset, but most people don't have that on hand. (Don't try crushing vitamin C tablets -- they usually have buffers that will negate the acid effect.)
Personally, I find feeding once every 12 hours for the first few days (as opposed to every 24 as recommended by many recipes) and keeping the feeding amount the same, but not throwing any away for the beginning is sufficient to overcome the bad bacteria. The fruit juice can also add contaminants, so I don't usually use it, but it appears to improve your chances significantly if you use widely spaced feeding schedules or higher hydrations.
By the way -- note that the acid will only get you over the first hump. In most cases, it will take a week or two before you've really weeded out most of the bad stuff from your starter for good. Keep up the regular feedings.
(4) Milk and sugar. Just don't do it. Milk can provide a slight acidity as it sours, but it's more likely to bring in bad bacteria or grow mold than the fruit juice option mentioned above. Sugar helps a lot of microorganisms grow, but at the beginning of a starter, it's more likely to grow bad bacteria than good yeast. I know some people add sugar to a mature starter with each feeding, but it's not necessary. I don't have a lot of experience with this, but anecdotally I've heard that it can throw off the "rhythm" of yeast and bacteria growth even in a mature starter, effectively reducing the rising potential of your starter.
Sometimes with a mature starter, you should add milk and/or sugar as part of the recipe to build the final dough. That will depend on the type of bread. But I never use either in regular feedings. |
21,187 | I recently learned that I don't need to buy packets of yeast to make bread. I can create a sour dough starter by utilizing the wild yeast floating around in the air. Take a look at this article for more information:
<http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/edible-innovations/sourdough2.htm>
What are the optimal conditions for creating a sour dough starter:
* Are there optimal locations that has a higher concentration of wild yeast? (such as a cold/warm place or a place with alot/little light)
* What type of flour would work best?
* I also read somewhere to use acidic fruit juice to help accelerate the process. Is this true? And if so, why?
* Some starters call for sugar and milk. What would these additions do? | 2012/02/08 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/21187",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/8305/"
] | Although there are ideal conditions for sourdough, it colonises the yeast very easily so many of these measures may be unnecessary. Likewise, if you live in an area with just a low volume of yeast spores in the air then these measures may not even help, although they will make it a much friendlier environment for yeast to grow in.
In its most basic form a sourdough starter is made of flour and water (warm, not hot or cold). Technically this is enough, as all the yeast needs to do is convert the complex sugars (ie starch) into simple sugars with there naturally occurring enzyme amylase, they can then 'eat' the sugars and produce CO2. It takes time for the yeast to produce the amylase and convert the complex sugars into simple sugars so sometimes regular caster sugar is added to speed up the process. That's why I think the milk and juices might be added as they contain additional sugars, however as mentioned in the previous answer it will be a lot more expensive than if you use water.
Until the yeast has been colonized you should keep the starter in a warm place, no warmer than blood temperature. Once it is clearly fermenting there is no need to keep it warm as it will respire to quickly and so it's best to keep it at room temperature, but not somewhere cold and draughty.
The yeast in the starter dough do not contain chloroplasts so cannot photosynthesise, this means it won't make any difference whether its in the dark or light. Unless it is in too much light as the UV will damage the cells, don't fret if you've done this as it won't work immediately especially with the flour acting as a kind of barrier, but it isn't good.
Unbleached, organic flours work best as they haven't any pesticides used that could stifle growth. Whole wheat is best as it has the husk left so it's more likely to contain yeast. I don't often use these organic flours so I don't have any and I always use normal flours and it works fine, do its not necessary but I can imagine it certainly helps. | I believe we are talking about *wild* yeast starter: that means capturing the beasties that are freely floating in air not rehydrating a pure starter.
Here is where it gets to be work: there are alot of unwanted beasties tagging along in your chosen medium. They will die off thru any of a number of protocols for DIY sourdough starter.
Usually, reckon on three days of taking a bit of the older batch and creating a new one until the PH and food source and enzymes all crowd out the baddies.
Did this in school years ago and now am grateful for properly cultured starters!
Oh, and if your kitchen is sterile then wine-grapes are a trove of yeastiness. Though their natural inclination is to become wine, France has some lovely breads that borrow beasties from these fine fruits. |
21,187 | I recently learned that I don't need to buy packets of yeast to make bread. I can create a sour dough starter by utilizing the wild yeast floating around in the air. Take a look at this article for more information:
<http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/edible-innovations/sourdough2.htm>
What are the optimal conditions for creating a sour dough starter:
* Are there optimal locations that has a higher concentration of wild yeast? (such as a cold/warm place or a place with alot/little light)
* What type of flour would work best?
* I also read somewhere to use acidic fruit juice to help accelerate the process. Is this true? And if so, why?
* Some starters call for sugar and milk. What would these additions do? | 2012/02/08 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/21187",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/8305/"
] | Although there are ideal conditions for sourdough, it colonises the yeast very easily so many of these measures may be unnecessary. Likewise, if you live in an area with just a low volume of yeast spores in the air then these measures may not even help, although they will make it a much friendlier environment for yeast to grow in.
In its most basic form a sourdough starter is made of flour and water (warm, not hot or cold). Technically this is enough, as all the yeast needs to do is convert the complex sugars (ie starch) into simple sugars with there naturally occurring enzyme amylase, they can then 'eat' the sugars and produce CO2. It takes time for the yeast to produce the amylase and convert the complex sugars into simple sugars so sometimes regular caster sugar is added to speed up the process. That's why I think the milk and juices might be added as they contain additional sugars, however as mentioned in the previous answer it will be a lot more expensive than if you use water.
Until the yeast has been colonized you should keep the starter in a warm place, no warmer than blood temperature. Once it is clearly fermenting there is no need to keep it warm as it will respire to quickly and so it's best to keep it at room temperature, but not somewhere cold and draughty.
The yeast in the starter dough do not contain chloroplasts so cannot photosynthesise, this means it won't make any difference whether its in the dark or light. Unless it is in too much light as the UV will damage the cells, don't fret if you've done this as it won't work immediately especially with the flour acting as a kind of barrier, but it isn't good.
Unbleached, organic flours work best as they haven't any pesticides used that could stifle growth. Whole wheat is best as it has the husk left so it's more likely to contain yeast. I don't often use these organic flours so I don't have any and I always use normal flours and it works fine, do its not necessary but I can imagine it certainly helps. | For years I have made my starter out of store bought all purpose flour and yeast. I then wait until it quits bubbling and store it in household refrigerator.
Generally I do not have to make new starter after using a bit for pancakes or sourdough bread.
All that is necessary is to add a tablespoon of sugar, stir and refrigerate.
To replenish the supply, I add 1c flour, 2T. sugar, & 1c warm water. Stir and let stand in warm kitchen until bubbly action stops and then refrigerate.
This has been quite successful enjoying the praise of all that consume my bread. |
21,187 | I recently learned that I don't need to buy packets of yeast to make bread. I can create a sour dough starter by utilizing the wild yeast floating around in the air. Take a look at this article for more information:
<http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/edible-innovations/sourdough2.htm>
What are the optimal conditions for creating a sour dough starter:
* Are there optimal locations that has a higher concentration of wild yeast? (such as a cold/warm place or a place with alot/little light)
* What type of flour would work best?
* I also read somewhere to use acidic fruit juice to help accelerate the process. Is this true? And if so, why?
* Some starters call for sugar and milk. What would these additions do? | 2012/02/08 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/21187",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/8305/"
] | (1) One critical element that hasn't been emphasized in answers so far is that the microorganisms that establish your starter mostly come from *the flour* not the air. The idea that the creation of a starter involves "catching wild yeast from the air" is commonly repeated in many, many books and resources, but I'd be interested if anyone has ever seen a scientific paper that actually verified that airborne yeast is a significant source for establishing sourdough cultures. (I've looked a bit, and I haven't seen that. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence for a variety of microorganisms, including local ones, in established cultures. But the primary establishing microorganisms come from mainly from the flour.)
A number of people have reported experiments to test the conditions necessary for establishing a successful starter, including ones where they tried their best to kill all starters. Sterilized containers and mixing equipment, sealed containers, and sterilized water have little impact. But sterilized flour will almost always fail to produce a viable starter. (It also makes sense that yeasts and bacteria that would like to eat grain would be likely to be found living on it at a higher concentration that floating around in the air....)
In any case, now that we've established the primary source of the microorganisms, the main goal in a new starter is to provide them with adequate food and a growth environment that will weed out other undesirable organisms. Personally, I've had the best results in beginning with a starter regime that somewhat simulates the life cycle I ultimately want for my starter. Since I generally raise dough at room temperature and expect to feed a room temperature starter roughly every 12 hours to keep it healthy, I do the same when beginning my starter.
But that's just my preference. You can get a starter going with temperatures anywhere from about 55F to 85F -- below that, and the yeast will grow way too slowly, and above that, and you're likely to grow bad stuff in the first week of a new starter. As others have said, 70-80 degrees is probably optimal for quickly establishing a starter. On the other hand, lower temperatures will tend to produce an acidic environment more quickly, which will weed out the first batch of bad bacteria. So, take your pick. As for feeding schedule, it really depends on your preferences, temperature, and hydration level. I wouldn't wait more than about 24 hours between initial feedings, but extra ones don't seem to hurt.
In terms of other conditions, you mainly just want to avoid contamination from other bad stuff, since you're encouraging growth from the flour. Thus, keep the container covered (though not sealed tight -- it can explode, which I know from experience), and out of sunlight (which encourages mold growth). Trying to "catch the yeast from the air" by placing it near an open window or something is more likely than not to contaminate the starter and cause it to fail. I haven't been overly fussy about sterilizing containers or stirring utensils, as long as they are reasonably clean. I also haven't personally had any problem using tap water from a number of different municipalities -- I know some people have said it kills starters, but it never killed mine. To be safe, use water without chemical treatments. But if you plan to use tap water in your doughs, I do believe that you want to start selecting microorganisms that won't be killed from it at the start.
Hydration varies a lot, and I've seen successes with all types of starters. Most people seem to go with about 100% hydration (equal weights of flour and water). That starts out as a thick paste and will become a little "goupy" as the days go by. Others go with higher hydration (like pancake batter), while others make a very dry dough, kneading as much flour as possible into the water, and then bury the dough in a container of flour to ferment. I haven't really seen anyone compare success rates of these various approaches, since everyone seems to have their preferred starter type, but I've found that all of them can work. If anything, the most problematic for me seems to be high hydration: they tend to grow weird stuff in the first week unless fed frequently. With a dry ball starter buried in flour and kept at a cellar temperature, you could probably feed it only a couple times a week and still be successful in getting a starter going.
That covers a lot of the "conditions" question. In sum, a wide range of conditions can work -- just avoid contamination and keep out of the sun. Feed on a regular basis. Don't throw any random stuff in your starter (milk, sugar, grapes, potatoes, beer, whatever) -- in most cases, it is more likely to hurt through contamination rather than help. (See the note about acids below, however...)
Moving on to the other questions:
(2) Whole grain flours work best, since they have a greater number of microorganisms than white flours. I've had greater success with rye, which has different sugars than wheat, but I know other people who swear by whole wheat. I've had a few starters with white flour fail, though, so I've given up trying to start that way. I'd suggest if you want a white flour starter, establish it with whole grains first, and then transition it to feedings with white flour after a couple weeks.
(3) Acidic ingredients can help a starter in the first 3 days or so. Basically, most starters go through a phase after about 2-3 days where you'll see very rapid growth. Don't get hopeful -- that is rarely due to good yeast. Instead, experiments have shown that it is due to a bad bacteria, and unless it is weeded out of your starter, it can prevent the good yeasts and bacteria from getting established.
Luckily, the bad bacteria produce waste products that tend to acidify the starter anyway, and eventually they will acidify it enough so that they can't grow anymore. Sourdough yeast and bacteria are selected to live in acidic conditions (hence, "sour" dough), so they will eventually take over.
Nevertheless, you can help out this weeding out process by giving an acidic boost early on. The simplest way to do this is built into many recipes. Instead of doing a typical sourdough feeding where you double or triple the weight of the starter, many recipes suggest only feeding the same amount for the first 3-4 days of a new starter. So, if you start with 10 units of flour and 10 units of water, you just keeping adding 10 units of each at each feeding. By the fourth or fifth feeding, you're only going to be adding a small amount of new food compared to the overall size of the starter. That will still help the yeast grow, but it will concentrate the acid produced in the starter so far and stop the bad bacteria from establishing itself.
(Note: You don't need a lot of flour to get things going. Even a small amount has a huge amount of microorganisms ready to grow. I usually start with a tiny amount, say 10 grams each of flour and water, and then feed 10 grams each with each feeding. Don't throw any away. After a few days to a week, you'll often be ready to bake your first loaf, and you don't end up wasting any ingredients.)
A number of online experimenters have tried using other acidic components at the outset, and the easiest option does seem to be pineapple juice used in place of water in at least the initial feeding. Orange juice and apple cider can also work if used in the feedings for the first few days. Other acids (e.g., vinegar, lemon juice) can work, but it's harder to get the "dose" right. The most effective seems to be a dose of ascorbic acid powder added at the outset, but most people don't have that on hand. (Don't try crushing vitamin C tablets -- they usually have buffers that will negate the acid effect.)
Personally, I find feeding once every 12 hours for the first few days (as opposed to every 24 as recommended by many recipes) and keeping the feeding amount the same, but not throwing any away for the beginning is sufficient to overcome the bad bacteria. The fruit juice can also add contaminants, so I don't usually use it, but it appears to improve your chances significantly if you use widely spaced feeding schedules or higher hydrations.
By the way -- note that the acid will only get you over the first hump. In most cases, it will take a week or two before you've really weeded out most of the bad stuff from your starter for good. Keep up the regular feedings.
(4) Milk and sugar. Just don't do it. Milk can provide a slight acidity as it sours, but it's more likely to bring in bad bacteria or grow mold than the fruit juice option mentioned above. Sugar helps a lot of microorganisms grow, but at the beginning of a starter, it's more likely to grow bad bacteria than good yeast. I know some people add sugar to a mature starter with each feeding, but it's not necessary. I don't have a lot of experience with this, but anecdotally I've heard that it can throw off the "rhythm" of yeast and bacteria growth even in a mature starter, effectively reducing the rising potential of your starter.
Sometimes with a mature starter, you should add milk and/or sugar as part of the recipe to build the final dough. That will depend on the type of bread. But I never use either in regular feedings. | Although there are ideal conditions for sourdough, it colonises the yeast very easily so many of these measures may be unnecessary. Likewise, if you live in an area with just a low volume of yeast spores in the air then these measures may not even help, although they will make it a much friendlier environment for yeast to grow in.
In its most basic form a sourdough starter is made of flour and water (warm, not hot or cold). Technically this is enough, as all the yeast needs to do is convert the complex sugars (ie starch) into simple sugars with there naturally occurring enzyme amylase, they can then 'eat' the sugars and produce CO2. It takes time for the yeast to produce the amylase and convert the complex sugars into simple sugars so sometimes regular caster sugar is added to speed up the process. That's why I think the milk and juices might be added as they contain additional sugars, however as mentioned in the previous answer it will be a lot more expensive than if you use water.
Until the yeast has been colonized you should keep the starter in a warm place, no warmer than blood temperature. Once it is clearly fermenting there is no need to keep it warm as it will respire to quickly and so it's best to keep it at room temperature, but not somewhere cold and draughty.
The yeast in the starter dough do not contain chloroplasts so cannot photosynthesise, this means it won't make any difference whether its in the dark or light. Unless it is in too much light as the UV will damage the cells, don't fret if you've done this as it won't work immediately especially with the flour acting as a kind of barrier, but it isn't good.
Unbleached, organic flours work best as they haven't any pesticides used that could stifle growth. Whole wheat is best as it has the husk left so it's more likely to contain yeast. I don't often use these organic flours so I don't have any and I always use normal flours and it works fine, do its not necessary but I can imagine it certainly helps. |
21,187 | I recently learned that I don't need to buy packets of yeast to make bread. I can create a sour dough starter by utilizing the wild yeast floating around in the air. Take a look at this article for more information:
<http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/edible-innovations/sourdough2.htm>
What are the optimal conditions for creating a sour dough starter:
* Are there optimal locations that has a higher concentration of wild yeast? (such as a cold/warm place or a place with alot/little light)
* What type of flour would work best?
* I also read somewhere to use acidic fruit juice to help accelerate the process. Is this true? And if so, why?
* Some starters call for sugar and milk. What would these additions do? | 2012/02/08 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/21187",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/8305/"
] | For years I have made my starter out of store bought all purpose flour and yeast. I then wait until it quits bubbling and store it in household refrigerator.
Generally I do not have to make new starter after using a bit for pancakes or sourdough bread.
All that is necessary is to add a tablespoon of sugar, stir and refrigerate.
To replenish the supply, I add 1c flour, 2T. sugar, & 1c warm water. Stir and let stand in warm kitchen until bubbly action stops and then refrigerate.
This has been quite successful enjoying the praise of all that consume my bread. | I believe we are talking about *wild* yeast starter: that means capturing the beasties that are freely floating in air not rehydrating a pure starter.
Here is where it gets to be work: there are alot of unwanted beasties tagging along in your chosen medium. They will die off thru any of a number of protocols for DIY sourdough starter.
Usually, reckon on three days of taking a bit of the older batch and creating a new one until the PH and food source and enzymes all crowd out the baddies.
Did this in school years ago and now am grateful for properly cultured starters!
Oh, and if your kitchen is sterile then wine-grapes are a trove of yeastiness. Though their natural inclination is to become wine, France has some lovely breads that borrow beasties from these fine fruits. |
21,187 | I recently learned that I don't need to buy packets of yeast to make bread. I can create a sour dough starter by utilizing the wild yeast floating around in the air. Take a look at this article for more information:
<http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/edible-innovations/sourdough2.htm>
What are the optimal conditions for creating a sour dough starter:
* Are there optimal locations that has a higher concentration of wild yeast? (such as a cold/warm place or a place with alot/little light)
* What type of flour would work best?
* I also read somewhere to use acidic fruit juice to help accelerate the process. Is this true? And if so, why?
* Some starters call for sugar and milk. What would these additions do? | 2012/02/08 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/21187",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/8305/"
] | (1) One critical element that hasn't been emphasized in answers so far is that the microorganisms that establish your starter mostly come from *the flour* not the air. The idea that the creation of a starter involves "catching wild yeast from the air" is commonly repeated in many, many books and resources, but I'd be interested if anyone has ever seen a scientific paper that actually verified that airborne yeast is a significant source for establishing sourdough cultures. (I've looked a bit, and I haven't seen that. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence for a variety of microorganisms, including local ones, in established cultures. But the primary establishing microorganisms come from mainly from the flour.)
A number of people have reported experiments to test the conditions necessary for establishing a successful starter, including ones where they tried their best to kill all starters. Sterilized containers and mixing equipment, sealed containers, and sterilized water have little impact. But sterilized flour will almost always fail to produce a viable starter. (It also makes sense that yeasts and bacteria that would like to eat grain would be likely to be found living on it at a higher concentration that floating around in the air....)
In any case, now that we've established the primary source of the microorganisms, the main goal in a new starter is to provide them with adequate food and a growth environment that will weed out other undesirable organisms. Personally, I've had the best results in beginning with a starter regime that somewhat simulates the life cycle I ultimately want for my starter. Since I generally raise dough at room temperature and expect to feed a room temperature starter roughly every 12 hours to keep it healthy, I do the same when beginning my starter.
But that's just my preference. You can get a starter going with temperatures anywhere from about 55F to 85F -- below that, and the yeast will grow way too slowly, and above that, and you're likely to grow bad stuff in the first week of a new starter. As others have said, 70-80 degrees is probably optimal for quickly establishing a starter. On the other hand, lower temperatures will tend to produce an acidic environment more quickly, which will weed out the first batch of bad bacteria. So, take your pick. As for feeding schedule, it really depends on your preferences, temperature, and hydration level. I wouldn't wait more than about 24 hours between initial feedings, but extra ones don't seem to hurt.
In terms of other conditions, you mainly just want to avoid contamination from other bad stuff, since you're encouraging growth from the flour. Thus, keep the container covered (though not sealed tight -- it can explode, which I know from experience), and out of sunlight (which encourages mold growth). Trying to "catch the yeast from the air" by placing it near an open window or something is more likely than not to contaminate the starter and cause it to fail. I haven't been overly fussy about sterilizing containers or stirring utensils, as long as they are reasonably clean. I also haven't personally had any problem using tap water from a number of different municipalities -- I know some people have said it kills starters, but it never killed mine. To be safe, use water without chemical treatments. But if you plan to use tap water in your doughs, I do believe that you want to start selecting microorganisms that won't be killed from it at the start.
Hydration varies a lot, and I've seen successes with all types of starters. Most people seem to go with about 100% hydration (equal weights of flour and water). That starts out as a thick paste and will become a little "goupy" as the days go by. Others go with higher hydration (like pancake batter), while others make a very dry dough, kneading as much flour as possible into the water, and then bury the dough in a container of flour to ferment. I haven't really seen anyone compare success rates of these various approaches, since everyone seems to have their preferred starter type, but I've found that all of them can work. If anything, the most problematic for me seems to be high hydration: they tend to grow weird stuff in the first week unless fed frequently. With a dry ball starter buried in flour and kept at a cellar temperature, you could probably feed it only a couple times a week and still be successful in getting a starter going.
That covers a lot of the "conditions" question. In sum, a wide range of conditions can work -- just avoid contamination and keep out of the sun. Feed on a regular basis. Don't throw any random stuff in your starter (milk, sugar, grapes, potatoes, beer, whatever) -- in most cases, it is more likely to hurt through contamination rather than help. (See the note about acids below, however...)
Moving on to the other questions:
(2) Whole grain flours work best, since they have a greater number of microorganisms than white flours. I've had greater success with rye, which has different sugars than wheat, but I know other people who swear by whole wheat. I've had a few starters with white flour fail, though, so I've given up trying to start that way. I'd suggest if you want a white flour starter, establish it with whole grains first, and then transition it to feedings with white flour after a couple weeks.
(3) Acidic ingredients can help a starter in the first 3 days or so. Basically, most starters go through a phase after about 2-3 days where you'll see very rapid growth. Don't get hopeful -- that is rarely due to good yeast. Instead, experiments have shown that it is due to a bad bacteria, and unless it is weeded out of your starter, it can prevent the good yeasts and bacteria from getting established.
Luckily, the bad bacteria produce waste products that tend to acidify the starter anyway, and eventually they will acidify it enough so that they can't grow anymore. Sourdough yeast and bacteria are selected to live in acidic conditions (hence, "sour" dough), so they will eventually take over.
Nevertheless, you can help out this weeding out process by giving an acidic boost early on. The simplest way to do this is built into many recipes. Instead of doing a typical sourdough feeding where you double or triple the weight of the starter, many recipes suggest only feeding the same amount for the first 3-4 days of a new starter. So, if you start with 10 units of flour and 10 units of water, you just keeping adding 10 units of each at each feeding. By the fourth or fifth feeding, you're only going to be adding a small amount of new food compared to the overall size of the starter. That will still help the yeast grow, but it will concentrate the acid produced in the starter so far and stop the bad bacteria from establishing itself.
(Note: You don't need a lot of flour to get things going. Even a small amount has a huge amount of microorganisms ready to grow. I usually start with a tiny amount, say 10 grams each of flour and water, and then feed 10 grams each with each feeding. Don't throw any away. After a few days to a week, you'll often be ready to bake your first loaf, and you don't end up wasting any ingredients.)
A number of online experimenters have tried using other acidic components at the outset, and the easiest option does seem to be pineapple juice used in place of water in at least the initial feeding. Orange juice and apple cider can also work if used in the feedings for the first few days. Other acids (e.g., vinegar, lemon juice) can work, but it's harder to get the "dose" right. The most effective seems to be a dose of ascorbic acid powder added at the outset, but most people don't have that on hand. (Don't try crushing vitamin C tablets -- they usually have buffers that will negate the acid effect.)
Personally, I find feeding once every 12 hours for the first few days (as opposed to every 24 as recommended by many recipes) and keeping the feeding amount the same, but not throwing any away for the beginning is sufficient to overcome the bad bacteria. The fruit juice can also add contaminants, so I don't usually use it, but it appears to improve your chances significantly if you use widely spaced feeding schedules or higher hydrations.
By the way -- note that the acid will only get you over the first hump. In most cases, it will take a week or two before you've really weeded out most of the bad stuff from your starter for good. Keep up the regular feedings.
(4) Milk and sugar. Just don't do it. Milk can provide a slight acidity as it sours, but it's more likely to bring in bad bacteria or grow mold than the fruit juice option mentioned above. Sugar helps a lot of microorganisms grow, but at the beginning of a starter, it's more likely to grow bad bacteria than good yeast. I know some people add sugar to a mature starter with each feeding, but it's not necessary. I don't have a lot of experience with this, but anecdotally I've heard that it can throw off the "rhythm" of yeast and bacteria growth even in a mature starter, effectively reducing the rising potential of your starter.
Sometimes with a mature starter, you should add milk and/or sugar as part of the recipe to build the final dough. That will depend on the type of bread. But I never use either in regular feedings. | I believe we are talking about *wild* yeast starter: that means capturing the beasties that are freely floating in air not rehydrating a pure starter.
Here is where it gets to be work: there are alot of unwanted beasties tagging along in your chosen medium. They will die off thru any of a number of protocols for DIY sourdough starter.
Usually, reckon on three days of taking a bit of the older batch and creating a new one until the PH and food source and enzymes all crowd out the baddies.
Did this in school years ago and now am grateful for properly cultured starters!
Oh, and if your kitchen is sterile then wine-grapes are a trove of yeastiness. Though their natural inclination is to become wine, France has some lovely breads that borrow beasties from these fine fruits. |
21,187 | I recently learned that I don't need to buy packets of yeast to make bread. I can create a sour dough starter by utilizing the wild yeast floating around in the air. Take a look at this article for more information:
<http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/edible-innovations/sourdough2.htm>
What are the optimal conditions for creating a sour dough starter:
* Are there optimal locations that has a higher concentration of wild yeast? (such as a cold/warm place or a place with alot/little light)
* What type of flour would work best?
* I also read somewhere to use acidic fruit juice to help accelerate the process. Is this true? And if so, why?
* Some starters call for sugar and milk. What would these additions do? | 2012/02/08 | [
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/21187",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com",
"https://cooking.stackexchange.com/users/8305/"
] | (1) One critical element that hasn't been emphasized in answers so far is that the microorganisms that establish your starter mostly come from *the flour* not the air. The idea that the creation of a starter involves "catching wild yeast from the air" is commonly repeated in many, many books and resources, but I'd be interested if anyone has ever seen a scientific paper that actually verified that airborne yeast is a significant source for establishing sourdough cultures. (I've looked a bit, and I haven't seen that. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence for a variety of microorganisms, including local ones, in established cultures. But the primary establishing microorganisms come from mainly from the flour.)
A number of people have reported experiments to test the conditions necessary for establishing a successful starter, including ones where they tried their best to kill all starters. Sterilized containers and mixing equipment, sealed containers, and sterilized water have little impact. But sterilized flour will almost always fail to produce a viable starter. (It also makes sense that yeasts and bacteria that would like to eat grain would be likely to be found living on it at a higher concentration that floating around in the air....)
In any case, now that we've established the primary source of the microorganisms, the main goal in a new starter is to provide them with adequate food and a growth environment that will weed out other undesirable organisms. Personally, I've had the best results in beginning with a starter regime that somewhat simulates the life cycle I ultimately want for my starter. Since I generally raise dough at room temperature and expect to feed a room temperature starter roughly every 12 hours to keep it healthy, I do the same when beginning my starter.
But that's just my preference. You can get a starter going with temperatures anywhere from about 55F to 85F -- below that, and the yeast will grow way too slowly, and above that, and you're likely to grow bad stuff in the first week of a new starter. As others have said, 70-80 degrees is probably optimal for quickly establishing a starter. On the other hand, lower temperatures will tend to produce an acidic environment more quickly, which will weed out the first batch of bad bacteria. So, take your pick. As for feeding schedule, it really depends on your preferences, temperature, and hydration level. I wouldn't wait more than about 24 hours between initial feedings, but extra ones don't seem to hurt.
In terms of other conditions, you mainly just want to avoid contamination from other bad stuff, since you're encouraging growth from the flour. Thus, keep the container covered (though not sealed tight -- it can explode, which I know from experience), and out of sunlight (which encourages mold growth). Trying to "catch the yeast from the air" by placing it near an open window or something is more likely than not to contaminate the starter and cause it to fail. I haven't been overly fussy about sterilizing containers or stirring utensils, as long as they are reasonably clean. I also haven't personally had any problem using tap water from a number of different municipalities -- I know some people have said it kills starters, but it never killed mine. To be safe, use water without chemical treatments. But if you plan to use tap water in your doughs, I do believe that you want to start selecting microorganisms that won't be killed from it at the start.
Hydration varies a lot, and I've seen successes with all types of starters. Most people seem to go with about 100% hydration (equal weights of flour and water). That starts out as a thick paste and will become a little "goupy" as the days go by. Others go with higher hydration (like pancake batter), while others make a very dry dough, kneading as much flour as possible into the water, and then bury the dough in a container of flour to ferment. I haven't really seen anyone compare success rates of these various approaches, since everyone seems to have their preferred starter type, but I've found that all of them can work. If anything, the most problematic for me seems to be high hydration: they tend to grow weird stuff in the first week unless fed frequently. With a dry ball starter buried in flour and kept at a cellar temperature, you could probably feed it only a couple times a week and still be successful in getting a starter going.
That covers a lot of the "conditions" question. In sum, a wide range of conditions can work -- just avoid contamination and keep out of the sun. Feed on a regular basis. Don't throw any random stuff in your starter (milk, sugar, grapes, potatoes, beer, whatever) -- in most cases, it is more likely to hurt through contamination rather than help. (See the note about acids below, however...)
Moving on to the other questions:
(2) Whole grain flours work best, since they have a greater number of microorganisms than white flours. I've had greater success with rye, which has different sugars than wheat, but I know other people who swear by whole wheat. I've had a few starters with white flour fail, though, so I've given up trying to start that way. I'd suggest if you want a white flour starter, establish it with whole grains first, and then transition it to feedings with white flour after a couple weeks.
(3) Acidic ingredients can help a starter in the first 3 days or so. Basically, most starters go through a phase after about 2-3 days where you'll see very rapid growth. Don't get hopeful -- that is rarely due to good yeast. Instead, experiments have shown that it is due to a bad bacteria, and unless it is weeded out of your starter, it can prevent the good yeasts and bacteria from getting established.
Luckily, the bad bacteria produce waste products that tend to acidify the starter anyway, and eventually they will acidify it enough so that they can't grow anymore. Sourdough yeast and bacteria are selected to live in acidic conditions (hence, "sour" dough), so they will eventually take over.
Nevertheless, you can help out this weeding out process by giving an acidic boost early on. The simplest way to do this is built into many recipes. Instead of doing a typical sourdough feeding where you double or triple the weight of the starter, many recipes suggest only feeding the same amount for the first 3-4 days of a new starter. So, if you start with 10 units of flour and 10 units of water, you just keeping adding 10 units of each at each feeding. By the fourth or fifth feeding, you're only going to be adding a small amount of new food compared to the overall size of the starter. That will still help the yeast grow, but it will concentrate the acid produced in the starter so far and stop the bad bacteria from establishing itself.
(Note: You don't need a lot of flour to get things going. Even a small amount has a huge amount of microorganisms ready to grow. I usually start with a tiny amount, say 10 grams each of flour and water, and then feed 10 grams each with each feeding. Don't throw any away. After a few days to a week, you'll often be ready to bake your first loaf, and you don't end up wasting any ingredients.)
A number of online experimenters have tried using other acidic components at the outset, and the easiest option does seem to be pineapple juice used in place of water in at least the initial feeding. Orange juice and apple cider can also work if used in the feedings for the first few days. Other acids (e.g., vinegar, lemon juice) can work, but it's harder to get the "dose" right. The most effective seems to be a dose of ascorbic acid powder added at the outset, but most people don't have that on hand. (Don't try crushing vitamin C tablets -- they usually have buffers that will negate the acid effect.)
Personally, I find feeding once every 12 hours for the first few days (as opposed to every 24 as recommended by many recipes) and keeping the feeding amount the same, but not throwing any away for the beginning is sufficient to overcome the bad bacteria. The fruit juice can also add contaminants, so I don't usually use it, but it appears to improve your chances significantly if you use widely spaced feeding schedules or higher hydrations.
By the way -- note that the acid will only get you over the first hump. In most cases, it will take a week or two before you've really weeded out most of the bad stuff from your starter for good. Keep up the regular feedings.
(4) Milk and sugar. Just don't do it. Milk can provide a slight acidity as it sours, but it's more likely to bring in bad bacteria or grow mold than the fruit juice option mentioned above. Sugar helps a lot of microorganisms grow, but at the beginning of a starter, it's more likely to grow bad bacteria than good yeast. I know some people add sugar to a mature starter with each feeding, but it's not necessary. I don't have a lot of experience with this, but anecdotally I've heard that it can throw off the "rhythm" of yeast and bacteria growth even in a mature starter, effectively reducing the rising potential of your starter.
Sometimes with a mature starter, you should add milk and/or sugar as part of the recipe to build the final dough. That will depend on the type of bread. But I never use either in regular feedings. | For years I have made my starter out of store bought all purpose flour and yeast. I then wait until it quits bubbling and store it in household refrigerator.
Generally I do not have to make new starter after using a bit for pancakes or sourdough bread.
All that is necessary is to add a tablespoon of sugar, stir and refrigerate.
To replenish the supply, I add 1c flour, 2T. sugar, & 1c warm water. Stir and let stand in warm kitchen until bubbly action stops and then refrigerate.
This has been quite successful enjoying the praise of all that consume my bread. |
10,139,998 | With the inclusion of Microsoft Fakes in Visual Studio 11, I thought it would be worth to look into again, since I did not find Moles mature enough last i checked. The documentation is still sparse, but I cannot find any reference to mocks, i.e. the ability to set up and verify expectations on the faked objects.
Does anyone know if this is currently included (as a feature in the library) or will be? | 2012/04/13 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/10139998",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/98236/"
] | It is not included currently, but we are considering something in this area. | Although they are not included, you can use stubs to hack in the same behavior. In your stub you can capture whether the method was called and the parameters that were called. Of course, by the time you start doing that you're almost hand rolling your own mocks.
In the meantime I'd suggest Moq or RhinoMocks. I find the syntax simpler and I'm not a fan of the generated code that Microsoft Fakes uses anyhow. Try renaming a method on one of your fakes using a refactoring tool. It's not possible because your fake is a generated class, not an instance of the interface you are stubbing. |
19,572 | After shopping we have a lot of plastic shipping bag. If we burn these bag then its harmfull for envoirnment and we can not burried it. What is the best solution of resuse of a plastic shopping bag.? | 2018/11/21 | [
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com/questions/19572",
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com",
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com/users/26015/"
] | You can dissolve the sugar in water and filter it, then evaporate the water. | If the dead weevils are a different weight than the sugar crystals, you can use moving air to separate the sugar from the weevils. |
19,572 | After shopping we have a lot of plastic shipping bag. If we burn these bag then its harmfull for envoirnment and we can not burried it. What is the best solution of resuse of a plastic shopping bag.? | 2018/11/21 | [
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com/questions/19572",
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com",
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com/users/26015/"
] | You can dissolve the sugar in water and filter it, then evaporate the water. | how much money are you talking about? Dead Weevils (yuk!) I'd toss the whole bag and buy another rather than swallowing dead weevils. Not my kind of protein. |
19,572 | After shopping we have a lot of plastic shipping bag. If we burn these bag then its harmfull for envoirnment and we can not burried it. What is the best solution of resuse of a plastic shopping bag.? | 2018/11/21 | [
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com/questions/19572",
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com",
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com/users/26015/"
] | You can dissolve the sugar in water and filter it, then evaporate the water. | You might be able to get rid of the weevils, but what about any waste they've excreted? They've been living, breeding, eating, defecating, and dying inside that bag of sugar. I'm not sure if it's wise to use that sugar, even if you could remove the weevil bodies. You've probably got some unwanted bacteria in there that will taint whatever product you want to use the sugar in. For example, if you use it to sweeten some home made cider, you'll probably end up with cider vinegar after a few weeks.
Sugar is cheap, and easy to replace. Unless you're talking about a very large quantity (on an industrial scale), it's probably wiser to write it off.
How about using preventative measures, to stop this from happening again?
A few years ago, I had a problem with weevil infections in my bakery cupboard. They would get into my flour, sugar and cornflour. I would then throw out my supplies, clean my cupboard, and buy new supplies. A few months later, I would find that my new supplies were also infected! It was becoming an expensive problem.
I decided to wrap all of my baking supply bags in plastic bags. The idea was to isolate any infected bags, and stop it from spreading to any other bags. I've never had any problems since. |
19,572 | After shopping we have a lot of plastic shipping bag. If we burn these bag then its harmfull for envoirnment and we can not burried it. What is the best solution of resuse of a plastic shopping bag.? | 2018/11/21 | [
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com/questions/19572",
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com",
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com/users/26015/"
] | You might be able to get rid of the weevils, but what about any waste they've excreted? They've been living, breeding, eating, defecating, and dying inside that bag of sugar. I'm not sure if it's wise to use that sugar, even if you could remove the weevil bodies. You've probably got some unwanted bacteria in there that will taint whatever product you want to use the sugar in. For example, if you use it to sweeten some home made cider, you'll probably end up with cider vinegar after a few weeks.
Sugar is cheap, and easy to replace. Unless you're talking about a very large quantity (on an industrial scale), it's probably wiser to write it off.
How about using preventative measures, to stop this from happening again?
A few years ago, I had a problem with weevil infections in my bakery cupboard. They would get into my flour, sugar and cornflour. I would then throw out my supplies, clean my cupboard, and buy new supplies. A few months later, I would find that my new supplies were also infected! It was becoming an expensive problem.
I decided to wrap all of my baking supply bags in plastic bags. The idea was to isolate any infected bags, and stop it from spreading to any other bags. I've never had any problems since. | If the dead weevils are a different weight than the sugar crystals, you can use moving air to separate the sugar from the weevils. |
19,572 | After shopping we have a lot of plastic shipping bag. If we burn these bag then its harmfull for envoirnment and we can not burried it. What is the best solution of resuse of a plastic shopping bag.? | 2018/11/21 | [
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com/questions/19572",
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com",
"https://lifehacks.stackexchange.com/users/26015/"
] | You might be able to get rid of the weevils, but what about any waste they've excreted? They've been living, breeding, eating, defecating, and dying inside that bag of sugar. I'm not sure if it's wise to use that sugar, even if you could remove the weevil bodies. You've probably got some unwanted bacteria in there that will taint whatever product you want to use the sugar in. For example, if you use it to sweeten some home made cider, you'll probably end up with cider vinegar after a few weeks.
Sugar is cheap, and easy to replace. Unless you're talking about a very large quantity (on an industrial scale), it's probably wiser to write it off.
How about using preventative measures, to stop this from happening again?
A few years ago, I had a problem with weevil infections in my bakery cupboard. They would get into my flour, sugar and cornflour. I would then throw out my supplies, clean my cupboard, and buy new supplies. A few months later, I would find that my new supplies were also infected! It was becoming an expensive problem.
I decided to wrap all of my baking supply bags in plastic bags. The idea was to isolate any infected bags, and stop it from spreading to any other bags. I've never had any problems since. | how much money are you talking about? Dead Weevils (yuk!) I'd toss the whole bag and buy another rather than swallowing dead weevils. Not my kind of protein. |
166,109 | In this question, someone explains that you can get skillpoints from public dungeons:
[Max number of skill points in Elder Scrolls Online?](https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/164595/max-number-of-skill-points-in-elder-scrolls-online)
However, it is not explained how you actually gain those skill points and how you can keep track of them. Can someone explain this please and, if applicable, add the names of Dungeons that reward Skillpoints for completion? | 2014/04/28 | [
"https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/166109",
"https://gaming.stackexchange.com",
"https://gaming.stackexchange.com/users/62277/"
] | There is a Final Boss in every Public Dungeon, once you kill this boss you get a Skill Point. I believe each Final Boss in Public Dungeons have an achievement associated with them, if you are concerned about keeping track of them.
The two achievements I have arrows to are prime examples of achievements that track the defeat of Final bosses in Public Dungeons.
I have broken them down to the easiest most comprehensive form possible. Zone, Name of dungeon, person/persons you have to kill or event you have to complete for skillpoint.
**Ebonheart Pact**
------------------
-*Stonefalls*, **Crow's Wood** --
Destroy the South Wraiths to summon Ghyslain and then slay him.
-*Deshaan*, **Forgotten Crypts** -- Eradicate the Kwama infestation and kill the Kwama Guardians.
-*Shadowfen*, **Sanguine's Demesne** -- Kill fight-Master Grel and his adepts.
-*Eastmarch*, **Hall Of The Dead** -- Defeat Reynir the Destroyer and his minions.
-*The Rift*, **Lion's Den** -- Kill the Lonely Giant and his angry Mammoths.
**Daggerfall Covenant**
-----------------------
-*Glenumbra*, **Bad Man's Hallow** -- Slay the Giant Snake Mother
-*Stormhaven*, **Bonesnap Ruins** --
Slay the Eternal One
-*Rivenspire*, **Obsidian Scar** --
Slay Zilbash the Deciever.
-*Alik'r Desert*, **Lost City of the Na-Totambu** -- Solve the Puzzle of the Guardians.
-*Bangkorai*, **Razak's Wheel** -- Defeat the Flesh Atronach.
Aldmeri Dominion
----------------
-*Auridon*, **Toothmaul Gully** -- Destroy Bloodroot and its guardians.
-*Grahtwood*, **Root Sunder Ruins** -- Complete the Root Sunder Ruins Group Event
-*Greenshade*, **Rulanyil's Fall** -- Defeat the undead hordes of Hergor the Fallen.
-*Malabal Tor*, **Crimson Cove** -- Kill Flat Tooth and his boys
-*Reaper's March*, **The Vile Manse** -- Defeat the damned creations of Graccus' frost experiments.
**Coldharbour**
---------------
**Village of the Lost** -- Defeat Zatalguch in its subterranean lair.
16 in total. | It is not true that you can get a skillpoint from every public dungeon. It is however true that there is a Skyshard in every public dungeon (those marked with a torch on your map). You may know that you have to collect 3 Skyshards to get a skillpoint, so the public dungeons indeed contribute to your overall skillpoints. |
64,117 | I have never understood or found any answer to how to use your AC. Is it something the GM have to keep in mind all the time to reduce or add damage to specific players based on how high their AC is, is it something you can use to calculate and reduce the damage received to a player, or is it just a number displaying what sort of defensive items you have on you? If so, why do you have to use armour and shields? | 2015/06/28 | [
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/64117",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com",
"https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/22331/"
] | This is written in both the player's handbook and even the [player's basic rules](https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules), in the respective chapter about Combat. I suggest you read either of these.
From the basic rules, page 73 (emphasis mine, identical text is found in the PHB):
>
> ### ATTACK ROLLS
>
>
> When you make an attack, your attack roll determines whether the attack hits or misses. To make an attack roll, roll a d20 and add the appropriate modifiers. **If the
> total of the roll plus modifiers equals or exceeds the target’s Armor Class (AC), the attack hits.** The AC of a character is determined at character creation, whereas the AC of a monster is in its stat block.
>
>
>
AC is effectively the difficulty class (DC) for attack rolls and thus determines how hard you are to hit with melee and ranged attacks in combat. | Armour and shields are components of your AC. AC is simply a measure of how hard it is to strike a figure in a way that does damage. It might be partly how good you are at dodging, or completely made up from physical or magical protection. In the end all that matters is whether you avoided a being struck or not, so it's all boiled down to one number. Damage reduction is a different thing. |
653,127 | According to this picture from TI [](https://i.stack.imgur.com/PGWsE.png)
and Type-C specification, I am wondering where is the protection for these super speed differential lines
As it seems that when an improper removal happens, there is a chance that VBUS might contact the adjacent differential lines, and I don't think ESD protectors on these lines will protect them from shorting to VBUS.
And I checked the common MUX's datasheet used on these lines(HD3SS3220), the absolute maximum rating voltage on these lines is 2.5V, so MUX won't protect VBUS for PHY.
Edit:
The picture is from this article: [The problem with short-to-VBUS protection integrated into your USB Type-C™/USB Power Delivery controller](https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/powerhouse/posts/the-problem-with-short-to-vbus-protection-integrated-into-your-usb-type-c-usb-power-delivery-controller) | 2023/02/07 | [
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/653127",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com",
"https://electronics.stackexchange.com/users/290818/"
] | Modern (recommended) circuitry of USB-C connectors use AC-decoupling caps (0.22/0.33uF) on all susperspeed lines, Tx and Rx, so the VBUS touch on these pins does not expose IC pads to dangerous DC levels and causes only a ESD-like event. However, the CC/SB signals are DC signals, that's why TI chip protects only these wires. | You do not mention a specific product. You ask generally for USB type C protection from such events.
>
> where is the protection for these super speed differential lines
>
>
>
As a designer of the PCB, you are responsible to make the protection for such events. Having said that, you might not need or want to make such protection and you cannot know from the start if the product you are using has such protections.
The USB C connector is just a connector, it does not come with surge protections. You/the designer should implement those.
It is the same thing for maximum current protection. The connector does not stop the USB from drawing more amps that the USB is capable of. The designer should use a IC to limit the current drawn.\
**EDIT**
The pins you mention that could be shorted, what is the voltage they carry and are they tolerant to the voltage of the short?
If both signals carry for example 3.3V and they are 3.3V tolerant (or 5V tolerant), then there is no issue shorting them and you should not need protection from that. After all the short happens when you plug, unplug the connector and not during operation (I hope) so it wont affect your functionality.
So you should check the voltage tolerance of these pins.
Also, if you worry for a connector too much and it seems unreliable to use, choose another USB connector. |
57,889,311 | Just for the sake of curiosity , I want to know is there a way I can edit/modify Java core classes inside rt.jar. I am searching everywhere in the internet but got no relevant answers. I have also referred to Covert Java(book) but I am unable to understand it.
Note: I don't want to distribute my app. I just want to do it for my curiosity. | 2019/09/11 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/57889311",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/11563308/"
] | Better approach would be extending those Class and modifying the specific methods. This will not affect other project where you just wanted Java provided Class | Files in that jar are compiled .class files from .java source files. You cannot modify the binaries directly that easy, but if you have a source code (e.g. <https://github.com/openjdk/>) you can compile your own .class files and replace, since JAR is basically an archive with binaries.
Not the most scalable approach, but possible. |
57,889,311 | Just for the sake of curiosity , I want to know is there a way I can edit/modify Java core classes inside rt.jar. I am searching everywhere in the internet but got no relevant answers. I have also referred to Covert Java(book) but I am unable to understand it.
Note: I don't want to distribute my app. I just want to do it for my curiosity. | 2019/09/11 | [
"https://Stackoverflow.com/questions/57889311",
"https://Stackoverflow.com",
"https://Stackoverflow.com/users/11563308/"
] | Another answer suggested patching rt.jar
I believe this is not the best approach - you effectively cannot distribute your app (unless you have your app contenerized and you deliver Java with your app).
The way to go is to learn about [bootstrap classpath](https://riptutorial.com/java/example/20114/the-bootstrap-classpath)
This should cover most of reasonable use cases.
>
> The normal Java classloaders look for classes first in the bootstrap classpath, before checking for extensions and the application classpath. By default, the bootstrap classpath consists of the "rt.jar" file and some other important JAR files that are supplied by the JRE installation. These provide all of the classes in the standard Java SE class library, along with various "internal" implementation classes.
>
>
> Under normal circumstances, you don't need to concern yourself with this. By default, commands like java, javac and so on will use the appropriate versions of the runtime libraries.
>
>
> Very occasionally, it is necessary to override the normal behavior of the Java runtime by using an alternative version of a class in the standard libraries. For example, you might encounter a "show stopper" bug in the runtime libraries that you cannot work around by normal means. In such a situation, it is possible to create a JAR file containing the altered class and then add it to the bootstrap classpath which launching the JVM.
>
>
> | Files in that jar are compiled .class files from .java source files. You cannot modify the binaries directly that easy, but if you have a source code (e.g. <https://github.com/openjdk/>) you can compile your own .class files and replace, since JAR is basically an archive with binaries.
Not the most scalable approach, but possible. |
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