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In a previous article, irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) says:
>Come on, guys, looks like its time to move that juvenile public-post
>either to E-mail or to a different newsgroup (alt.sex.bondage.holly.silva?).
No, Brent that would be
alt.sex.bondage.holly.silva.goofy.anti.semite.... :)
--
*************************************************************************
If you were smarter, you'd have these opinions....
*******************************************************************************
| 16talk.politics.guns |
Well Bruins fans it's playoff time again.
It looks like the B's have peaked at the right time.
Getting out of the Adams is going to be a cat fight to the end.
After what they did to Montreal and Quebec, these teams will be out for
revenge. If Neely can stay healthy, and both Bourque and Moog stay sharp,
we should get to see Neely finally take out two years of frustration
on Ulf (I don't fight) Samuelson. I don't agree with fighting in the NHL,
but if there is one guy who deserves to be taken out good, it's him.
This is going to be a good series, Go Bruins!!!!
Rchard
richard@amc.com
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
VIDAR OLAF SOLBERG (vidaros@dhhalden.no) wrote:
& Can somebody tell me what all the letter spesifications on motorcycle models
& really mean.
& Example: What means the C, the B and the R in Honda CBR. - Or the V, S, G, L
& and P in Suzuki VS750GLP
Honda: a "V" designates a V engine street bike. "VF" for V-4, "VT" for V-twin.
"CB" is a street bike with an parallel twin or inline 4-cylinder engine.
"R" used to mean race bike, but is now also used to mean sport bike.
"CL" was for the old steet scramblers-street bikes with high pipes
"CM" was a "custom" street bike
"CR" is dirt only two strokes
"XL" is dual purpose bike
"XR" was dirt only four stroke, but now can be a dual purpose bike if it has
an "L" as a suffix.
"GL" is a touring bike
--
Frank Ball 1UR-M frankb@sad.hp.com (707) 794-4168 work,
Hewlett Packard (707) 794-3844 fax, (707) 538-3693 home
1212 Valley House Drive IT175, XT350, Seca 750, '62 F-100, PL510
Rohnert Park CA 94928-4999 KC6WUG, LAW, AMA, Dod #7566, I'm the NRA.
| 8rec.motorcycles |
Mike McAngus (mam@mouse.cmhnet.org) wrote:
>By the way, news.announce.newusers has an article (can't remember which
>one) that recommends reading a newsgroup for 1 month before posting.
>This makes sense because you get an idea who the players are and what
>the current discussions are about.
>Am I the only one who followed that advice?
No, I spent a month just reading, too, mainly because I did not know
much about the way atheists think. I even printed out the FAQs and
discussed it with a friend before I started posting.
Alt.atheism deals with religious issues (more appropriately, lack of
religious beliefs), which are by their very nature very controversial.
It makes sense to read what is being discussed and how just to make
sure you are not repeating something others have said better.
Petri
--
___. .'*''.* Petri Pihko kem-pmp@ Mathematics is the Truth.
!___.'* '.'*' ' . Pihatie 15 C finou.oulu.fi Physics is the Rule of
' *' .* '* SF-90650 OULU kempmp@ the Game.
*' * .* FINLAND phoenix.oulu.fi -> Chemistry is The Game.
| 0alt.atheism |
In article <C5uLqG.I5@acsu.buffalo.edu> v064mb9k@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (NEIL B. GANDLER) writes:
>
> How does the radio Electronics free information cards work.
>Do they just send you some general information about the companies that
>advertise in their magazine or does it also give you sign you up for a
>catalog.
Radio-Electronics sends each company a bunch of computer-printed address
labels for all the people who circled that company's number.
The company sends whatever it wants to -- normally a catalog.
--
:- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****
:- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********
:- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *
:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><
| 12sci.electronics |
>Does anybody have any information on the second generation Broncos? (I'm
>not talking about Bronco II's, I'm referring to the Broncos that began
>production in 1978 based on the F-150 chassis I believe)
Ahh Broncos. Well personally, I have a '78. The blue book is just
a hair over 3 grand. I bought it for 2500 and then bought new tires 650
front end rebuild 350, carb rebuild 130. Then i did the unthinkable
and blew the engine (not bronco specific, unmaintained engine with 168,000)
2400 more bucks there, now it is in nice condition, well after new seats out
of a t-bird, radio, 2 amps, speakers, alarm, well the radio and amps were
free and i bought the speakers used for 40 bucks, and the other speakers
i took out of my old jeep (Sell a Jeep for a bronco you might ask,
but it was a Wagoneer). Its a lovely specimen, solid front and rear
axels, ford 9" and a dana 44 up front. Watch the rear axel wrap, i
busted off my u-bolts ONCE, i added traction shocks after that and
haven't had a problem since. Also the bottom of the doors tend to
rot, bottom of the tailgates likes to rust right up to the new ones
that might be in your budget. The post 80 broncos have that sickly
TTB front end and little stamped and folded steel radius arms were
as the 78-79 have nice big cast iron longer radius arms(ie more prspective
wheel travel). The only rust i have is on my doors and a few
dings in the sheet metal. I don't know when the removeable tops were
discontinued but they are fun. I just ordered a full convertable top
for 400$ for mine(credit card). Don't ever break the window if you
have the double laminated bronzed privacy glass in your cap it is over
400 bucks to replace. My bronco also does pretty good offroad,
i haven't bottomed out my suspension, YET, and have crossed over
3 foot deep of water with no problems, handles rocks like a charm too.
One problem is it is WIDE and you sometimes can't follow a CJ or a
Toyota, between two rocks or trees, and your grandmother will have
a hard time getting up into it.
BOB
| 7rec.autos |
Help, I'm bored with the current Windows backgrounds we have here and am
looking for some nifty pictures to use instead. I've seen from previous posts
that many sites exist that store pictures - available through anonymous ftp.
Except that I can't ftp to remote sites from my machine, what I CAN do is use
'ftpmail' - mail a list of commands to a server and receive a mail of files,
and/or data back.
Does anyone know of sites, with Windows compatible pictures, that can be
accessed in such a way???
If you do would you please post them.
TIA
Mark.
PS. Maybe this would make a useful FAQ
|--------------------------------------|--------------------------------------|
| mark.whalley@gec-mrc.co.uk | 'Only in silence the word, |
| Phone +44 245 473331 Exn. 3114 | Only in darkness light, |
| The views expressed here are mine, | Only in dying life, |
| all mine, and nothing whatsoever to | Bright the hawk's flight on the |
| do with GEC-MRC. | empty sky' - Ursula K. Le Guin |
|--------------------------------------|--------------------------------------|
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
*** On 04-19-93 04:09, John Bongiovanni had the unmitigated gall to say this:
>>Suddenly, the date no longer rolls over. The time is (reasonably) accurate
>>allways, but we have to change the date by hand every morning. This involves
>>exiting the menu system to get to DOS.
JB> Did I once hear that in order for the date to advance, something, like
JB> a clock, *has* to make a Get Date system call? Apparently, the clock
JB> hardware interrupt and BIOS don't do this (date advance)
JB> automatically. The Get Date call notices that a "midnight reset" flag
JB> has been set, and then then advances the date.
When a program uses a DOS call to get the system, it resets the flag that
tells the BIOS that it has passed midnight. It then uses this flag to
increment the date. If the menu does a call to the system to get the time
before midnight, before the BIOS sees the midnight flag, then BIOS will not
know that the day passed and the date will not get updated.
I might have some DOS's and BIOS's mixed up (darned cold messed up my
brains) but this has been a well documented problem for years. I don't know
of a workaround. Hope this helps!
... Two most common elements in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity.
--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
----
The Ozone Hole BBS * A Private Bulletin Board Service * (504)891-3142
3 Full Service Nodes * USRobotics 16.8K bps * 10 Gigs * 100,000 Files
SKYDIVE New Orleans! * RIME Network Mail HUB * 500+ Usenet Newsgroups
Please route all questions or inquiries to: postmaster@ozonehole.com
| 3comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware |
jpopovich@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
>While I enjoy the trend towards the more classic style of uniform -
>and I disagree with the person who wants a return to the non-gray road
>uniforms - it should be remembered that one of the, if not THE reason
>for the redesigning of uniforms, especially hats (re: the new road all
>green A's caps and the cardinal navy blue road cap), is the marketing
>money to be made in sales of new merchandise.
no kidding...just ask the White Sox...
too bad, really...
-John Neuharth
neuharth@u.washington.edu
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
In article <randolin.3.735424986@polisci.umn.edu> randolin@polisci.umn.edu (Robert Andolina) writes:
>The thing that confuses me most about ESPN is that they decided to show the
>Penguins and Devils again on Thursday night. Being that both of the first
>two games were dominated by Pitt., you would think that they would show a
>different game. This is in addition to the fact that they should show other
>games just for the sake of fair exposure.
>
>Also, some of you should know that (as far as I can tell) ESPN is not going
>to show Campbell conference games regularly in the first two rounds. I
>believe that they are only going to show Campbell games in the first two
>rounds as those series wear on (games 6 & 7, or perhaps games 5, 6, 7).
>
>Also, does anyone have info on ABC coverage for this Sunday (4/25)?
>
>
ESPN had an advertise for Pens/Devils game 4. I don't know what the hell
they are trying to do, especially against NFL draft. Well I guess there goes
the NHL ratings for Sundays game.
>
>Robert Andolina
>randolin@polisci.umn.edu
>
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
In article <1r1i41$4t@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>
>Just maybe you won't be home. Then you can come home to something
>like this:
>
> "Well, it's been a rough month," begins Johnnie Lawmaster. "I
> just get laid off, and my divorce became final. But I just wasn't
> ready for what happened this particular Monday."
[horror story about FBI ruining a guy's life for the hell of it omitted]
>So if you don't want your tea party to be held in awkward silence, make
>sure your lawyer isn't there, there's a good chap.
So, is this a real story or a work of fiction? How about some
sources? When, where, and in what newspaper did you get all this
from? Or is it all hypothetical?
--
+------------------------+------------------------------------+
| David Charlap | "Apple II forever" - Steve Wozniac |
| dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | "I drank what?" - Socrates |
+------------------------+------------------------------------+
| 19talk.religion.misc |
Dumb move.
The smart move would be to sneak in someone with a TV camera
and video transmitter.
John Nagle
| 16talk.politics.guns |
In article <C73w0t.FpH@cunews.carleton.ca> wcsbeau@superior.carleton.ca (OPIRG) writes:
>I don't think that idea means what you think it does. Having everyone
>on Earth subject to some ad agency's "poor taste" *is* an abomination.
>(abomination : n. loathing; odious or degrading habit or act; an
>object of disgust. (Oxford Concise Dictionary)) Maybe *you* don't mind
>having every part of your life saturated with commercials, but many of
>us loathe it.
It's a moot point: Step out of your door go _anywhere_ (except possibly
your mailbox). You will be "subject to some ad agency's 'poor taste'"
>...I'd rather not have the beauty of the night sky always marred
>by a giant billboard, and I'll bet the idea is virtually sacrilegious
>to an astronomer like Sagan.
While I'm sure Sagan considers it sacrilegious, that wouldn't be
because of his doubtfull credibility as an astronomer. Modern,
ground-based, visible light astronomy (what these proposed
orbiting billboards would upset) is already a dying field: The
opacity and distortions caused by the atmosphere itself have
driven most of the field to use radio, far infrared or space-based
telescopes. In any case, a bright point of light passing through
the field doesn't ruin observations. If that were the case, the
thousands of existing satellites would have already done so (satelliets
might not seem so bright to the eyes, but as far as astronomy is concerned,
they are extremely bright.)
Frank Crary
CU Boulder
| 14sci.space |
In article <1993Apr7.141930.29582@freenet.carleton.ca>
ac002@Freenet.carleton.ca (Nikolaus Maack) writes:
>Come on. A gun kills people.
Rather, people kill people with guns. The sad truth is: sometimes that is
good, or at least, better than the alternative.
>But let's ignore guns for defence and/or crime and look at gun accidents.
Ok. There are about 1400 fatal firearm accidents per year [1], and the
number has been in decline since early this century [2]. Most of these
accidents involve rifles or shot guns, not handguns.
...
>But seriously: a gun is designed to fire a bullet. This is not so you
>can shoot cardboard cut outs down at the range.
In fact there are both guns and bullets designed specifically for that.
The idea that my Ruger Mark II Bull Barrel (a semi-auto 0.22 caliber
handgun) was designed to kill or hurt people, even for self defense,
would, I'm sure, come as a surprise to its designer. It certainly isn't
why I have it. It certainly would hurt someone if you shot them with it,
and might even kill them, but it is simply wrong to say it was designed to
kill people.
>This is not designed to act as a tool for home defence where you show
>someone that you have a gun and they go "Gee, perhaps I should leave".
In fact, that is what happens most of the time. Most self defensive uses
of firearms don't involve firing any shots. Most criminals would prefer
not to be shot, and will go to some effort not to be, including doing what
you say when you point a gun at them.
If you were called on to design a tool, that could be easily carried, to
immediately stop someone attacking you, what would it be? A handgun is
about the best anyone has come up with and experience shows it does work
the best.[3]
>No, you see the gun was designed to fire that little bullet into a human
>body and hurt them. Not a tough concept to swallow, for most.
Certainly, no one argues that handguns (of the type we are discussing)
aren't deadly weapons. However, it simply isn't true to say that all of
them were designed to kill people. Moreover, what exactly is wrong with
having deadly weapons? There are times when it is perfectly legitimate to
use deadly force, e.g. in self defense. I consider it not just my right,
but my duty to defend myself and my family, and that includes having and
knowing how to use the tools to do that.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear
arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in
government."
- T. Jefferson.
I think what Jefferson said is still true.
>And the trouble with having such an item is often the little bullet goes
>off into the wrong fleshy target.
Not very often compared to other use.[3]
>Or else Uncle Frank gets pissed and blows away his wife.
This isn't that common either, at least when compared to other uses. It is
very rare that a non-violent person will suddenly "get-pissed" and kill
someone, gun or not. In most cases, the people who murder have long
histories of violence. If you have good reason to believe that these
people wouldn't kill if they didn't have a gun, feel free to present it.
>Having a thing specificly designed to kill means it is much easier to
>kill things. Right?
Right, but there are times when killing things is called for. I hope I
never have to shoot a person, but I've had to kill a number of animals from
rodents to cows, and when I do, I don't want them to suffer any more than
is necessary. I prefer they die instantly, but failing that, I want them
to drop so I can quickly finish them with the next shot, and failing that,
I don't want them to go fast or far. I try to choose the best weapon and
ammunition I have to try to achieve that goal for the size of animal I'm
after, but it doesn't always work as I plan. Without belaboring the point,
people who are overly impressed with the killing or shopping power of guns,
particularly handguns, haven't used them much for that purpose.
[1] Accidental deaths in 1988:
48700 deaths by auto
11300 deaths by fall
5300 deaths by drowning
4800 deaths by fire
4400 deaths by poison
3200 deaths by food
1400 deaths by firearm
Source: Statistics Department, National Safety Council.
"Accidents Facts 1988 Edition". National Safety Council.
444 N. Michigan Avenue, Chicago IL 606111 (800) 621-7619
[2] RKBA.002 - Declining trend of accidental deaths by firearms
Version 1.1 (last changed on 90/04/23 at 22:28:19)
DESCRIPTION
===========
The accidental deaths by firearm per capita has been declining steadily
for almost sixty years. In 1932, the accidental deaths by firearm per
1,000,000 people was 24.03. In 1987, it was 5.74. The decline has been
steady, consistent, and a fairly straight line when plotted. At the rate
of the last sixty years, it will reach zero sometime around 2025 AD.
CONCLUSION
==========
Firearms have been a declining factor in accidental deaths for over
sixty years, despite rising per-capita gun ownership.
[1] = Year.
[2] = Population.
[3] = Accidental deaths.
[4] = Accidental deaths per 1,000,000.
[1] [2] [3] [4] [1] [2] [3] [4]
1932 124,840,000 3,000 24.03 1961 183,691,000 2,204 12.00
1933 125,579,000 3,014 24.00 1962 186,538,000 2,092 11.21
1934 126,374,000 3,033 24.00 1963 189,242,000 2,263 11.96
1935 127,250,000 2,799 22.00 1964 191,889,000 2,275 11.86
1936 128,053,000 2,817 22.00 1965 194,303,000 2,344 12.06
1937 128,825,000 2,576 20.00 1966 196,560,000 2,558 13.01
1938 129,825,000 2,726 21.00 1967 198,712,000 2,896 14.57
1939 130,880,000 2,618 20.00 1968 200,706,000 2,394 11.93
1940 132,122,000 2,375 17.98 1969 202,677,000 2,309 11.39
1941 133,402,000 2,396 17.96 1970 204,879,000 2,406 11.74
1942 134,860,000 2,678 19.86 1971 207,661,000 2,360 11.36
1943 136,739,000 2,282 16.69 1972 209,896,000 2,442 11.63
1944 138,397,000 2,392 17.28 1973 211,909,000 2,618 12.35
1945 139,928,000 2,385 17.04 1974 213,854,000 2,613 12.22
1946 141,389,000 2,801 19.81 1975 215,854,000 2,380 11.03
1947 144,126,000 2,439 16.92 1976 218,035,000 2,059 9.44
1948 146,631,000 2,191 14.94 1977 220,239,000 1,982 9.00
1949 149,188,000 2,330 15.62 1978 222,585,000 1,806 8.11
1950 151,684,000 2,174 14.33 1979 225,055,000 2,004 8.90
1951 154,287,000 2,247 14.56 1980 227,757,000 1,955 8.58
1952 156,954,000 2,210 14.08 1981 230,138,000 1,871 8.13
1953 159,565,000 2,277 14.27 1982 232,520,000 1,756 7.55
1954 162,391,000 2,271 13.98 1983 234,799,000 1,695 7.22
1955 165,275,000 2,120 12.83 1984 237,001,000 1,668 7.04
1956 168,221,000 2,202 13.09 1985 239,279,000 1,649 6.89
1957 171,274,000 2,369 13.83 1986 241,613,000 1,600 6.62
1958 174,141,000 2,172 12.47 1987 243,915,000 1,400 5.74
1959 177,073,000 2,258 12.75
1960 180,671,000 2,334 12.92
Sources:
U.S. Bureau of the Census, Historical Statistics of the United States,
Colonial Times to 1970, Bicentennial Edition, Part 2, Washington, DC, 1975.
U.S. Bureau of the Census, Statistical Abstract of the United States:
1982-83. (103th edition.) Washington, DC, 1982 [sic]..
U.S. Bureau of the Census, Statistical Abstract of the United States:
1989 (109th edition.) Washington, DC, 1989.
[3] Kleck, Gary. "Guns and Self-Defense: Crime Control through the Use of
Force in the Private Sector." __Social Problems__ 35(1988):4, pp. 7-9.
--
orstcs!opac!bug!stevef I am the NRA Steven R. Fordyce
uunet!sequent!ether!stevef . . . The only fair tax is no tax!
| 16talk.politics.guns |
In article <1993Apr14.165633.2170@cbnews.cb.att.com>, lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani) writes:
>As for the MOVE incident, wasn't the mayor of Philadelphia at the time Black ?
For the first Move incident (no bomb, several members killed in
gunfire, circa 1978) the mayor was the very white Frank Rizzo.
For the second (bomb included) the mayor was Wilson Goode, who
is indeed black.
-jim halat
| 16talk.politics.guns |
>Although I'm an atheist, the events in Waco have really sickened me. It's
>truely a sad day for religious freedom in this country. The Branch
>Dividians may have been nutty (my general opinion of all religious people),
>but tax evasion and illegal possesion of firearms are certainly not grounds
>for destroying a people.
Excuse me? WHO destroyed the BD's? Last I knew, they burned themselves...
Prove to me that the FBI, ATF, or the Government in general either burned
the compound themselves, or that the BD's had no choice but to commit
mass suicide rather than coming out peacefully (a promise that was made
twice by Koresh himself, which he broke both times).
--
John Mechalas "I'm not an actor, but
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu I play one on TV."
Aero Engineering, Purdue University #include disclaimer.h
| 18talk.politics.misc |
>>>>> On 19 Apr 93 21:48:42 GMT, xlyx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu said:
> Is it possible to do a "wheelie" on a motorcycle with shaft-drive?
Yes, but the _rear_ wheel comes off the ground, not the front.
See, it just HOPS into the air! Figure.
====================================================
John Stafford Minnesota State University @ Winona
All standard disclaimers apply.
| 8rec.motorcycles |
In article <C5L3EC.F2v@acsu.buffalo.edu> hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie
S. Hammerl) writes:
> In article <93289@hydra.gatech.EDU> gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak)
writes:
> >
> > Here are the results after three days of voting. Remember 3pts for
> >1st, 2 for 2nd, and 1 for 3rd. Also, you can still turn in votes! And..
if
> >the guy isn't a regular goalie or he is retired, please include the
team!
> >Thanks for your time, and keep on sending in those votes!
>
> > Glenn Healy (NYI), Tommy Soderstron (???), Ray LeBlanc (USA).
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Soderstrom plays with Philly, but he doesn't have a moulded mask.
> He's got the helmet and cage variety, in white. Or at least that's
> what he wore thirteen hours ago.
>
Yeah but Soderstrom's mask has always appeared to be a lot bigger than the
average helmet-and-cage variety. It has a certain appeal on its own
josh
> --
> Valerie Hammerl "Some days I have to remind him
he's not
> hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu Mario Lemieux." Herb Brooks on Claude
> acscvjh@ubms.cc.buffalo.edu Lemieux, top scorer for the Devils, but
> v085pwwpz@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu known for taking dumb penalties.
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
April 24th is approaching, and Armenians around the world
are getting ready to remember the massacres of their family members
by the Turkish government between 1915 and 1920.
At least 1.5 Million Armenians perished during that period,
and it is important to note that those who deny that this event
ever took place, either supported the policy of 1915 to exterminate
the Armenians, or, as we have painfully witnessed in Azerbaijan,
would like to see it happen again...
Thank you for taking the time to read this post.
-Helgge
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
In article <C5ztJu.FKx@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:
>Why is the NT tossed out as info on Jesus. I realize it is normally tossed
>out because it contains miracles, but what are the other reasons?
It is not tossed out as a source, but would it be regarded as
unbiased and independant?
| 19talk.religion.misc |
In article <1993Apr30.182605.5999@nessie.mcc.ac.uk>, lilley@v5.cgu.mcc.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) writes:
[re a true 24 bit XV]
> If you would come up with a solid, logical, well argued and lucid description of
> precisely how these proposed extensions would work, feel free to post them
Don't mind if I do.
As someone who would _love_ to see XV go to 24 bit, this
would be plenty for me.
a) XV can Load a 24 bit image, and display it in all it's
24 bit glory on 24 bit X displays.
b) All other operations (Crop, Dither, Smooth, etc.) are not
supported on 24 bit images.
how hard would this be?
--
Ken Fishkin fishkin@xerox.com
| 1comp.graphics |
|This was no MOVE fuck-up. A helicoptor was thermal-imaging the compound
|that afternoon and detected three fires erupting almost simultaneously.
Did anyone notice any helicopters equipped with thermal imaging
equipment? They usually manifest themselves in a turret in the front
of the helo, or a sphere on top of the rotor with optical elements.
I didn't notice any UH-1s or other helos equipped as such. Did they
use handheld military thermal scanners? If so, there is no recording
capability, and hence the credibility of the report is subject to
human error.
| 16talk.politics.guns |
hi all, i got several emails and a couple news replies and i guess i
shoulda went into more detail... Being my anxiety level is peaking and you
folks have no clue who I am I may as well post the specifics and see what
you people think regarding my previous post.
To recap i applied to 20 schools total, 16 of which were MD and 4 DO.
as it stands now i have had 13 rejects, 4 interviews( 2 MD and 2 DO), the
results of which are 2 waiting lists (1 MD and one DO)
3 schools i heard nothing from at all.
I have contacted all institutions other than the rejects and they have no
info whatsoever to tell me.
I have taken a good mix to apply to.. 2-3 top schools a bunch of middles
and a few "safety" (funny that most of my safety schools were the first
to reject me)
my index is at like a 3.5 mcats were R7 P9 B10 WQ and R7 P9 B11 WR
I couldnt get the damn reading score up... i never stuff like art
history, politics etc
Ive done medical research at the undergrad level, done clinical lab work
for years now, but unfortunately i have no patient contact experience.
I cant think of what else i left out... but thats the summary. What
percent of people are usually called from the waiting lists on an average?
I felt that my interviews went quite well yet i dont have a firm
acceptance in my hand... anyone have any suggestions as to calm the
mailbox anxiety?
If you premeds out there or med students have any questions or comments
for me feel free to send them down... Typing is a form of anti-anxiety
thereapy hehehehe :)
--
/\ _ /\ | Felix The Cat
| 0 0 |-------\== The Wonderful, Wonderful Cat!
\==@==/\ ____\ | ===============================
Meow!--- \_-_/ || || hoss@panix.com
| 13sci.med |
DB>LaserWriter IINTX upgrade kit is.
DB>Its a small box, which has a bag inn it , seemingly
DB>containing 6 chips (look like ROMS) and a IINTX manual.
DB>The installation instructions are most informative and say, in full,
DB>"This product must be installed by an Apple ........."
DB>SO what does this do ? At first I thought it might be a NT to NTX
DB>upgrade, but I thought that required an entirely new board.
Sounds like you got the Adobe ROM upgrade for an NTX. That describes
the kit I got when I upgraded to the 51.2 or 52.1 PostScript in my NTX.
---
. DeLuxe. 1.26b #956s . MicroFrame: The BEST in Price and Performance!
. QNet3. . The PipeLine : Atlanta, GA : Echo Mail From Around The World
----
| HAL 9000 BBS: QWK-to-Usenet gateway | Four 14400 v.32bis dial-ins |
| FREE Usenet mail and 200 newsgroups! | PCBoard 14.5aM * uuPCB * Kmail |
| Call +1 313 663 4173 or 663 3959 +--------------------------------+
| Member of EFF, ASP, ASAD * 1500MB disk * Serving Ann Arbor since 1988 |
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
For those Leaf fans who are concerned, the following players are slated for
return on Thursday's Winnipeg-Toronto game :
Peter Zezel, John Cullen
Mark Osborne and Dave Ellett are questionable to return on Thursday.
All regular players who were injured (including Dimitri Mironov) should be back
for Saturday's home game against the Flyers.
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
In article <AfqzkhS00iV1E2YIss@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph D. Mazza" <mazz+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>BTW, I just saw the new Q45 on TV this weekend. The big changes: a
>GRILLE has been added (looks nice, too!), and some WOOD for the
>interior. Otherwise, it looked largely unchanged.
They changed the lights and slope of the hood, along with the new
grille. Otherwise, it is unchanged.
Interestingly, their lack of wood and lack of a grille was a BIG
design statement... they tried to defy conventional wisdom and carve
their own niche ... unfortunately, sales were only half those of the
LEXUS and hence, they now join the pack. I still wonder if much of
the problem wasn't the slow start from the initial AD campaign.
Personally, I like the Q without the Grille.
--
Steve Morris, M.A. : Internet: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu
Addiction Studies Pgm : uucp :{uw-beaver,uunet!gtenmc!dataio}!sumax!smorris
Seattle University : Phone : (206) 296-5350 (dept) or 296-5351 (direct)
Seattle, WA 98122_____:________________________________________________________
| 7rec.autos |
In article <1993Apr20.204831.19788@rtsg.mot.com> svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda) writes:
>In article <13516@news.duke.edu> infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew Infante) writes:
>|Well, as a few of you so aptly put it,
>|get off the road, jerk, we don't wanna hear your
>|whining.
>|
>|Fine.
>|
>|Fuck off too.
>|
>|If you noticed, it was in 91, more than two years ago,
>|and YES, I've learned, and it's cost me.
>|
>|And yes, I've known people (friends and relatives) who've
>|been involved in drunk-related accidents (not them, they were hit)
>|and my cousin is still recovering.
>|
>|No, I can't take back what happened.
>|
>|Yes, it was stupid.
>|
>|But, by reminding me about it all the time, you're
>|neither helping me or yourself, so stuff your opinion.
>
>Hey, man, you brought it up. I agree completely, driving drunk is really
>stupid, and I understand and appreciate that you feel bad about it. But
>DWI is endemic in our society. It is a REAL problem. And we, as
>motorcyclists, can be in the worst of vulnerable positions around a drunk
>driver. (Alert readers might remember that last year I witnessed a DWI
>accident (right bloody in front of me), and was unable to save the life
>of one of the participants, as I reported here.) Also, drunk driving by
>motorcyclists is a prime cause of their injury and death, which raises the
>insurance rates, forces stupidly restrictive laws, and turns the public
>against those of us who ride responsibly.
>
>In my view, drunk driving should carry a mandatory prison sentence.
>It is one of the traffic offenses which is NOT a public funds issue,
>but a genuine safety issue. So if YOU bring up the subject on rec.moto,
>admitting having been caught DWI, and looking for sympathy over the
>consequences, don't expect people to respond with warm wishes.
>
>Dave Svoboda (svoboda@void.rtsg.mot.com) | "I'm getting tired of
You and the Beav should lighten up (esp the Beav). I agree that
DUI/DWI is serious. We should have reasonable laws, strict
enforcement, and tough sentences. But, Andrew did not
post "looking for sympathy over the consequences." He posted
asking for advice because he had an extremely high quote. His
post was obviously valid because he later found insurance for LESS.
He noted why he was in his predicament but did not defend in
any way drunk driving (and has renounced drunk driving). There
are too many repeat offenders to worry about and other BDC.
Why try to make this person who is no longer part of the problem
an outcast? He has paid his debt to society. Step off the high
horse. We have all been irresponsible in the past.
With that said, I'm guilty of the same type of hostility towards
rapists. I think it comes because I feel the punishment is not
severe enough. The same may be true of DWI/DUI. If that is the
case, then it is our stinkin' gubment we need to change. If
we had a reasonable law about DWI/DUI with a stiff penalty
then fewer people would do it.
At any rate, Andrew as paid his debt as defined by the law.
If you think that debt is actually greater than the law mandates,
tell your 'representatives'.
Jack Waters II
DoD#1919
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ I don't fear the thief in the night. Its the one that comes in the ~
~ afternoon, when I'm still asleep, that I worry about. ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| 8rec.motorcycles |
In article <1993Apr18.203823.28597@news.columbia.edu>,
gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) says:
>Locked away, waiting for the tape-delay to start ...
I think this guy is going to be just a little bit disappointed. Lemieux
two, Tocchet, Mullen, Tippett, and Jagr. I buzzed my friend because I forgot
who had scored Mullen's goal. I said, "Who scored? Lemieux two, Tocchet,
Tippett, Jagr." The funny part was I said the "Jagr" part non-chalantly as
he was in the process of scoring while I was asking this question!!! :-)
All in all ABC's coverage wasn't bad. On a scale of 1-10, I give it about
an 8. How were the games in the Chi/St. Louis/LA area???
>It's nice that the Devils are starting out their playoffs on network
>television ... too bad that their playoff game has been preempted on
>WABC-AM for an early-season Yankees baseball game!
That's stupid!!! I'd complain to the television network! If I were to even
see a Pirates game on instead of a Penguins game at this time of the year, I
and many other Pittsburghers would surely raise hell!!!
>It's a 12-2 win by the Texas Rangers ... and they're delaying the
>tape-delay by another half-hour for the ballgame "highlights"!!!
Texas is off to a good start, they may pull it out this year. Whoops! That
belongs in rec.sport.baseball!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
** Robbie Po ** PGH PENGUINS!!! "We do what comes naturally!
Patrick Division Semi's '91 STANLEY CUP You see now, wait for the
PENGUINS 6, Devils 3 '92 CHAMPIONS possibility, don't you see a
Penguins lead, 1-0 12 STRAIGHT WINS! strong resemblance..."-DG '89
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
In <1993Apr30.163959.19715@head-cfa.harvard.edu> willner@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Steve Willner) writes:
>cooked if that were the case. In any event, the energy density of
>starlight comes out about the same as that of the microwave
>background, and I believe that to be correct.)
Yeah, what about that? Is this just a weird coincidence? (And
let's not see all the same hands this time, TVF.)
| 14sci.space |
In article <1993Apr22.114213.3391@mtroyal.ab.ca>
caldwell8102@mtroyal.ab.ca writes:
>(Detroit, April 21)
>
>Most knowledgable observers once again watched in shock as the Detroit Red
>Wings again beat the best goaltender in the world six times en route to
>another easy victory over the best team in the NHL.
>
>For the best goaltender in the world, Felix Potvin, six was a bad number as
>he surrendered six goals and collected six minutes in penalties in reponse
>to the goon tactics employed by the inferior Red Wings team.
>
> Alan
>
>P.S. We told you this would happen, Roger. Didn't we? I love it.....
Where is Roger anyway? Haven't heard from him in awhile. He must
be out on the golf course waiting for the Leafs to join him any day
now. : )
Laurie Marshall
Wayne State University
Detroit, Michigan
Go Wings!!!!
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
>
>O.K., its my turn:
>
> DRIVING THE JEWS INTO THE SEA ?!
>
>I am sick and tired of this 'DRIVING THE JEWS INTO THE SEA' sentance attributed
>to Islamic movements and the PLO; it simply can't be proven as part of their
>plan !
>
May I suggest you chech out the _Palestinian National Covenant (1964)_. It may
not use the exact words as quoted above but I'm sure many will agree that the
same message is being issued. Later on when I get back home I will try to find
the precise section(s) but you can do the research for now (I hope). I also
realize that Yasser Arafat renounced the _Covenant_ *to the Western media only*
but he has yet to inform the PNC officially and enequivocally of his exact
intentions on this issue. Therefore, as far as we are concerned the _Covenant_
still stands as the "Bible" (so to speak) of the mainstream Palestinian
National movement!
>(Pro Israeli activists repeat it like parrots without checking its authenticity
>since it was coined by Bnai Brith)
As a staunch pro-Israel activist I can confidently say that Bnai Brith has NOT
influenced my opinions on the Arab-Israeli conflict. As I mentioned above,
just a little research on the subject will lead anyone to reach a similar
conclusion on the Palestinian National movement (the PLO in most cases). BB
does not properly speak for me nor many of the people around me who share
my views.
>
>What Hamas and Islamic Jihad believe in, as far as I can get from the Arab media,
>is an Islamic state that protects the rights of all its inhabitants under Koranic
>Law. This would be a reversal of the 1948 situation in which the Jews in
>Palestine took control of the land and its (mostly Muslim) inhabitants.
>
What 1948 situation? A negative situation I presume? Is this the same
"situation" when the Jordanian occupiers of East Jerusalem would not allow the
Jews to go worship at the HOLIEST SITE IN JUDIASM? Was this an example of
Qu'ranic law being exercised? If not, I have another suggested reading for
you... get into the "soc.culture.arabic" newsgroup where the posters have been
debating the topic "Jews in the Qu'ran" (and may I remind you the people doing
the debating appear to be devout Muslims with some knowledge of the Qu'ran).
You will find that Jews aren't really viewed positively by the Qu'ran (to put
it lightly). So how do you think Jews (or any other non-Islamic religion) will
be treated by an Islamic state governed by the words of the Qu'ran? I think
the 1948-1967 "situation" in Jerusalem will return *at best*! What do you
think?
>However, whoever committed crimes against humanity (torture, blowing up their
>homes, murders,...) must be treated and tried as a war criminal. The political
>thought of these movements shows that a freedom of choice will be given to the
>Jews in living under the new law or leaving to the destintion of their choice.
All I have to say to that is, once again, see s.c.a - "Jews in the Qu'ran" and
think again. "Freedom of choice" is *definitely* not an option in Qu'ranic
law especially for non-Muslims and ALL women! Remember the Gulf War? I'm sure
you saw the reports about how women had few rights in Saudi Arabia (an Islamic
state).
>
>As for the PLO, I am at a loss to explain what is going inside Arafat's mind.
>
Probably nothing! Aside from how to break the news to his Palestinian brethren
that the _Covenant_ is "null and void" without getting assassinated himself!
>Although their political thinking seems far fetched with Israel acting as a true
>super-power in the region, the Islamic movements are using the same weapon the
>Jews used to establish their state : Religion.
>
In conclusion, Ahmed, you should go to the library and find the _Palestinian
National Covenant (1964)_ and read it VERY CAREFULLY. By the way, Redpath
Library DOES have it in stock because that is exactly where I found it when I
was doing my research. So enjoy the reading and I hope we will be hearing back
from you soon!
- Mike
---
MI KE MIK EMIK EMI K "Opinions expressed above
M I K E M I K E M are my own and not that
M I K E MIKEM I KEM I K of 'Big Blue'"
M I K E M IKE M IKE MIKE
IBM Corp., Toronto, Canada
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
In article <1qvrnpINNnid@shelley.u.washington.edu> yongje@hardy.u.washington.edu (Yong Je Lim) writes:
>Here is a story. I bought a car about two weeks ago. I finally can
>get hold of the previous owner of the car and got all maintanence
>history of the car. In between '91 and '92, the instrument pannel
>of the car has been replaced and the odometer also has been reset
>to zero. Therefore, the true meter reading is the reading before
>replacement plus current mileage. That shows 35000 mile difference
>comparing to the mileage on the odometer disclosure from. The
>dealer never told me anything about that important story.
>
>I hope that I can return the car with full refund. Do u think this
>is possible? Does anyone have similar experiences? Any comments
>will be appreciated. Thanks.
This is a tricky situation; if the previous owner didn't inform
the dealer of the odometer change, then the previous owner committed
fraud, and he may be liable. The dealer may also be liable; If the
previous owner notified the dealer, or if the previous owner had the
dash replaced at a dealer, or if the previous owner had the dash changed
legally, any records search on the car should turn up the fact that
the odometer had been altered. If a dealer changes the speedometer, he has
to report it (it goes into the car's service record with the manufacturer,
and on the title, if I remember correctly; the dealer told me that
the old mileage, etc. were sent to Ford when my T-Bird's speedo
was replaced). If the odometer can be set to the old mileage, it must
be; if it can't (eg, electrically-driven odometers) then the mileage
of the old odometer must be written on a permanent sticker which is
affixed to the door frame of the vehicle.
Either way, if the change had been done legally, then a records search
(which the dealer almost certainly did) should have turned it up.
Call your state's Department of Transportation/Public Safety/Motor
Vehicles--or your tag agent--to find out for certain what your
rights are. Your state's Attorney General will know for certain ;-)
James
James P. Callison Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu /\ Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
"It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has
and all he's ever gonna have."
--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"
| 7rec.autos |
Andrew Molitor (amolitor@nmsu.edu) wrote:
:
: 1) Monitor my phonecalls.
: 2) Monitor usenet.
: 3) Provide only cryptosystems they can easily crack.
: 4) etc etc.
:
: This is not to say that they *don't*, they might. But you don't
: know that they do, and you have no evidence that they do, for almost
: all values of you. It follows, therefore, that for most values of 'you',
: your claims about the NSA border on paranoia.
:
: Andrew
Now I wouldn't be the one to claim that you are injecting some
disinformation into the net, Andrew, but 'paranoia' refers to
unwarranted or excessive suspicions or fear, not those that
have reasonable roots.
Let's start with looking at the professionals, the NSA itself.
Its birth was by secret executive order by Harry S Truman
in 1952. Until even 1976 not even one word of this executive
order chartering the NSA was sealed. Paranoia, right?
On the outside of the NSA complex is a ten foot Cyclone fence
with multiple rows of barbed wire, with high voltage, complete with signs
prohibiting even making sketches under penalty of the Internal
Security Act. The area is completely scanned by closed circuit
television. More paranoia.
These are professionals, Maybe they know something we don't, eh?
Do you think it would have helped Admiral Yamamoto if the Japanese
had been a little more 'paranoid' of their purple cipher?
Or maybe the Germans should have been a little more 'paranoid' about
their Engima with respect to Turing and the British.
How about the cracking of the Zimmerman telegram? Would a little
more paranoia have helped the Germans here?
Maybe the NSA should have been a little more 'paranoid' about
Emma Woikin, or Joseph Sidney Petersen, Jr., or ...
Maybe you want to talk about Macmillan publishers cooperation
with the CIA and NSA to suppress Yardley's Japanese Diplomatic
Secrets or even Kahn's The Codebreakers.. paranoia, right?
The most popular cipher systems in captured soviet spies was
the one-time pad, even with the necessity of keeping incriminating
evidence about, is known to be the only proven unbreakable system.
Soviet paranoia, right?
And what do you think the NSA does with its Wullenwebers? And
huge Rhombics pointed embassy row? And their sites near
satellite uplink and downlink sites? Duh.
When I worked in a classified MITRE communications lab at one time
even with a "secret" clearance I had to be escorted to the toilet
and the entire site was built INTO a Mosler-type vault with *very*
thick bomb-proof door. MITRE paranoia?
I could cite probably a hundred more facts which all support, as
best hypothesis, the notion that the NSA is grabbing as much as
it can, as fast as it can. One would be a fool to ignore the
pattern of facts and conclude that they were random...
And we know the government is violent -- even against children as
recent events prove. Judge William Sessions is a disgrace
but a solemn warning to those who ignore the web of evidence
that our government institutions have in their contempt for our
civil rights.
And of course we have to err somewhat on the excessive side of
caution because that does much less harm than erring on the
reckless side. As member of the crew of the USS Liberty might aver.
I might suggest, Andrew, that you read Kahn's Codebreakers and
Bamford's Puzzle Palace and come back with some more facts to
support your sheepish acquiescence to authority.
--
grady@netcom.com 2EF221 / 15 E2 AD D3 D1 C6 F3 FC 58 AC F7 3D 4F 01 1E 2F
| 11sci.crypt |
I was wondering if someone could point me to somewhere I could
find a list (and hopefully comparison) of all the convertibles that are
out these days. Seems like they are making a big comeback - but I'm not
sure where to look
| 7rec.autos |
In article <VEAL.731.734985604@utkvm1.utk.edu> VEAL@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal) writes:
>In article <1993Apr16.164750.21913@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@
alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:>
>>In article <9304151442.AA05233@inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com> blh@uiboise.idbsu.edu (Broward L. Horne) writes:
>>
>>Why don't the Republicans get their act together, and say they
>>will support a broad-based VAT that would have to be visible
>>(the VAT in Canada is visible unlike the invisible VATS they
>>have in Europe)
>>and suggest a rate sufficient to halve income and corporate
>>and capital gains tax rates and at a rate sufficient to give
>>the Clintons enough revenue for their health care reform,
>
> The Republicans are, in general, fighting any tax increase.
>There is also worry that a VAT would be far too easy to increase
>incrementally.
>
I was a graduate student in the early 1980s, and we had a conference on
Reaganomics where Jerry Jordan, then a member of the Council of Economic
Advisors, was a speaker. I had the pleasure of driving him back to the
airport afterwards, and since taxes were the main topic of discussion I
thought I would ask him about the VAT. I have favored it for these reasons
you mention, that the income base is too hazy to define, that it taxes
savings and investment, that it is likely to be more visible. He agreed,
and reported that the CEA at that time was in favor of VAT. So why not
propose it? I asked. He replied that the Reagan White House feared that
the Democrats would introduce VAT *in addition to* the income tax, rather
than in lieu. Better not to give them any ideas, he said.
Pretty prescient.
> (BTW, what is different between Canada's tax and most of
>Europe's that makes it "visible?")
>
Yes, any Canadian readers, please tell us if the tax is displayed on price
stickers (I'm relatively certain it is not in Europe).
--King "Sparky" Banaian |"It's almost as though young
kbanaian@pitzer.claremont.edu |white guys get up in the
Dept. of Economics, Pitzer College |morning and have a big smile
Latest 1993 GDP forecast: 2.4% |on their face ... because,
|you know, Homer wrote the
|_Iliad_." -- D'Souza
| 18talk.politics.misc |
In article <1993Apr15.193603.14228@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
rscharfy@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ryan C Scharfy) writes:
>>Just _TRY_ to justify the War On Drugs, I _DARE_ you!
>
>A friend of mine who smoke pot every day and last Tuesday took 5 hits of acid
>is still having trouble "aiming" for the bowl when he takes a dump. Don't as
>me how, I just have seen the results.
Gee, the War on Drugs has been going on for all these years and they're
still getting drugs! Imagine that...
My friends who like grass (I don;t agree but it's pretty harmless) are
unable to get it, yet I know a number of places where someone stupid
enough could get crack cocaine within a half hour of leaving my office.
The War on Drugs has been completely unsuccessful, yet it's lead to really
horrible abuses of peoples' COnstitutional rights. I don't see how a
thinking person could justify it.
don
| 18talk.politics.misc |
Hi folks
Say, I'm new to R5 and have one quick question.
In using xon ( xon <machine_name> ) , I notice that it
always comes up with a very small window . I'm pretty
sure its the default font. My xterms all work normally.
Is xon supposed to read your .Xresources for a font size ?
xrdb -q appears to show the right stuff.
I can use xon with arguments such as xterm -fn 10x20 etc
and everything is correct. Of course you could always do a
simple script to do this , but I have a feeling I'm missing
something simple here.
Comments / suggestions appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Bob
bshaw@spdc.ti.com mm
| 5comp.windows.x |
In article <1993Apr27.143603.9351@nessie.mcc.ac.uk>
C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk writes:
>
>2) Yes XV is an 8 bit program. This is not a bug.
Never claimed it is a bug.
>XV can import 24 bit images and quantises them down to 8 bits. This is a handy
>facility, not a bug.
Never claimed it is a bug.
>How would you suggest doing colour editing on a 24 bit file? How
>would you group 'related' colours to edit them together? Only global
>changes could be done unless the software were very different and
>much more complicated.
>If you want to do colour editing on a 24 bit image, you need much
>more powerfull software - which is readily available commercially.
I guess I edited my note on this away from the article I posted to
many newsgroups.
I wrote something about making color modifications quickly
with 8bit quantized images and only at the saving the image to file
process we have to make the modifications to the 24bit image.
This makes sense, because the main use of XV is only viewing images.
Doing many changes to image, we should keep all modifications
in a buffer; and then before making the operations to 24bit image,
we should simplify the operation list for unnecessary operations.
>And lastly, JPEG is a compression algorithm. It can be applied to any
>image of arbitrary bit depth. Again, this is not a bug.
Never claimed it is a bug.
I tried kept sure I don't claim that JPEG is noting else than
a compression algorithm, because I know what the JPEG is.
(You propably misunderstood what I wrote as you have done in many
places so far.)
You also missed what is (were) wrong with XV. However, I did wrote it.
Juhana Kouhia
| 1comp.graphics |
In article <1993Apr16.130037.18830@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.edu (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>
>In article <2BCE0918.6105@news.service.uci.edu>, tclock@orion.oac.uci.edu (Tim Clock) writes:
>|
>|> In article <Apr15.175334.72079@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> bh437292@lance.colostate.edu writes:
>|> >
>Tim, you are ignoring the fact that the Palestinians in Lebanon have been
>disarmed. Hezbollah remains the only independent militia. Hezbollah does
>not attack Israel except at a few times such as when the IDF burned up
>Sheikh Mosavi, his wife, and young son. Of course, if Israel would withdraw
>from Lebanon and stop assassinating people and shelling villages they wouldn't
>make the Lebanese so mad as to do that. Furthermore, with Hezbollah
>subsequently disarmed, it would not be possible.
Just to address this one point, what about the two Katyusha rocket
attacks made within Lebanon, for which Fatah claimed responsibility.
I didn't realize that one can use Katyushas while onr is disarmed.
Also, Page 8 of today's New York Times, Faisal Saleh, a high ranking
Fatah official, and his 9 month old son were gunned down in Beirut
by members of Abu Nidal. There have been 46 assasination attempts
in 1993 alone in the fued between these two factions, resulting in
11 deaths.
Amir
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
In article <1r3qab$o1v@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes:
>In article <930421.102525.9Y9.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:
>#frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes:
>#> In article <930420.100544.6n0.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew
>#> <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:
>#> #This is complete nonsense. Relativism means saying that there is no absolut
>If you are saying that some moral systems are better than others, in
>your opinion, then all you get is infinite regress. What you do not get
>is any justification for saying that the moral system of the terrorist
>is inferior to that of the man of peace. Your saying it does not
>make it so, and that's according to your premise, not mine.
I've been reading these posts for a while and I still can't figure out
what is so terrible about just having an opinion. You seem to imply that
admitted your opinion is an opinion precludes you from justifying it or
convincing others of its worth -- ridiculous!
Dan
| 0alt.atheism |
Just saw an article in New Scientist; AT&T videophones won't talk to (?)BTI
videophones. The AT&T ones use a 19.2kb modem, BTI uses 14.4kb. AT&T models
have to communicate using all AT&T exchanges, whereas the BTI can route
via most current exchanges. Suggestions include building standards converters
into telephone exchanges - the mind boggles :)= . The BTI design is a bit
more conservative and is better able to cope with current data compression
hardware on long-distance lines.
(not having the magazine to hand, I may have mis-remembered BTI. I think it
is a British one made by GEC-Marconi, and currently selling to other
countries).
Yet Another Standards Screw-up.
--
Andrew Daviel, Vancouver, Canada <advax@triumf.ca>
finger advax@reg.triumf.ca for PGP key
| 12sci.electronics |
Mark 'Mark' Sachs <MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu>, representing the Students for
Increased Beverage Access (SIBA), writes:
>Oh? Then why did the smoke and flames start from three different places?
>In particular, three different places where there were no APV's?
Well, I only saw it start in one place. A tank punched a hole in a wall,
and as it withdrew flames came out and spread quickly in the direction that
a 30+ mph wind was blowing. I saw a diagram in USA Today yesterday, and
fires started at 2 of the 3 holes that the tanks made. A terrible, negligent
accident.
>And if the government did start the fire, then why weren't people trying
>to get out of the compound?
Maybe they couldn't. I've often marvelled at how people could get burned alive
in the upstairs of a 2 story house on fire, but it happens all the time.
What if they were in sealed rooms, trying to avoid the gas, and didn't know
about the fire until it surrounded them? Remember the Israelis hiding in
sealed rooms during Desert Storm to avoid gas-bearing Scuds?
Cripes, Mark, are you REALLY a college student? Maybe you ought to stop
worrying about increased beverage access and start clearing your head.
Ever heard of questioning authority?
>And besides... oh, I don't know why I'm even bothering.
OK, I'll buy that. You _do_ seem totally clueless...
>I find it tremendously chilling that so many people seem eager to believe
>a murderous, heavily-armed religious cult, despite much evidence to the
contrary.
Wellllll.... They weren't murderous. They'd never harmed or even threatened
anybody until they were attacked by a paramilitary force using military weapons
and hardware. And as far as "evidence", what are you talking about?
Everything the Feds have said they've retracted practically as soon as they get
questioned in detail about it. Maybe you and your Increased Beverage
Access buddies, sitting around the bar slurring stuff like "they shoulda
killed 'em all 51 days ago" don't feel that way, but then you're probably
one of those people still saying about Klinton "Give the guy a chance, we don't
even know what he's gonna do! (Burp)
>Thought Experiment: Suppose this exact same thing happened under
>the Bush administration. What would your answer be then? Would you still
>prefer to believe the cultists?
>(No, I don't really expect a response to that challenge.)
No problem, you don't have any questions that scare any of us. Most of our
minds are apparently more developed than yours.
The answer is: *YES!* In a f*cking heartbeat!
Thought Experiment: Would you be mindlessly down on your knees with your mouth
open, blissfully sucking up anything the Feds said if Bush were the president?
What, no comeback? (OK, go ahead, say it. "Read my lips, no new taxes" %^P )
>>But then
>>again, that is how Mr. Clinton was elected, by people who believe that
>>his campaign promisses would be respected by him once he got into office.
>Um, isn't that how all politicians are elected?
Not in such a great degree. Bush broke one promise, maybe two (taxes/guns)
and we held him accountable for it. Of course, it took him the better part of
4 years to do it; Slick's only been in office 101 days and he's broken lots
of them. Anddd... I imagine he'll also be held accountable for that.
(I can just see the campaign buttons now: "ABC - Anybody But Clinton")
>So is there any particular reason the gummint decided to slaughter eighty
>people? Are they, like, just plain evil, or what? Did they just wake up
>one day, stretch and yawn, and throw a dart at a map of the United States
>to figure out who to oppress that day? I'm eager to know.
Hmmm.... Apparently you just got here. Nobody's claiming that it was anything
but a stupid mistake by a bunch of incompetent public employees who normally
don't get this kind of scrutiny when the mess up. And as far as how they picked
the Davidians, who knows? Maybe they figured that nobody'd care about such
a politically incorrect group as a bunch of fundies out on the Texas prairie.
Maybe they figured they'd just go in there and run roughshod over the BDs
during their religious services (which was the reason the Feds gave for the
timing of the raid) rather than running into resistance. Maybe they KNEW
that the BDs weren't ANYWHERE NEAR as violent as the Feds' spin doctors are
trying to tell the public. Maybe they were AFRAID to try this kind of thing
on the Crips and Bloods. Maybe it was because the ATF's budget is up for
approval and they seem to favor doing something dramatic whenever that is
the case. Of course, their reasoning doesn't matter, only what they did,
and this time, people are just paying more attention to it.
>And does Bill Clinton have cooler theme music than Darth Vader?
Not if you mean that stupid "don't stop thinking about tomorrow"...
>How is he on diabolical laughter?
All I've ever heard is Hillary's diabolical giggle. Waffle Man seems to have
lost his sense of humor...
>Does he look good in a cape?
Don't know, never seen him in one. He probably looks fat and puffy faced,
just like in a suit. I saw him in the Rose Garden the other day, and I
couldn't get over how much he is starting to look like Teddy Kennedy.
>These things MUST be investigated. You first.
Don't worry, these things WILL be investigated. Now go back to your beer,
you dimwit....
************************************************************************
* I've heard a lot of people compare Bill Clinton to Jimmy Carter, and *
* I'd like to go on record as saying that I don't think that it's fair. *
* Jimmy Carter was a veteran, and he had personal character. And even *
* though I can't agree with Carter's policies, I always believed that *
* he was telling the truth, as best he understood it. I can't say *
* that for the Fat Cat... *
************************************************************************
Ken Whitehead (kdw@odin.icd.ab.com)
| 16talk.politics.guns |
I went to Staples in Framingham, MA, today, and grabbed the info-sheet on the
450 bundle.
For a mere $1897.00, you get:
-25 megahertz 68030 microprocessor
-4M of RAM
-120M hard disk
-1.4M floppy disk drive
-built in support for 256 colors, expandable to 32,000 colors
-1 expansion slot
-keyboard and mouse
-14" display
-0.29 mm dot pitch for extra-sharp text and graphics
-640 x 480 pixels
-microphone and speaker
-Macintosh System 7 software for Performa computers version 7.1P
-At Ease, Macintosh PC Exchange, and Quicktime software
-Global Village Teleport fax/modem , send fax only
_Service and support
-1 year limited warranty
-1 year of in-home service
-toll free help line support
-Pre-installed software:
-WordPerfect Works
-Best of ClickArt Collection
-Touchbase
-Datebook
-Bestbooks
-The Amereican Heritage Dictionary
-Correct Grammar
-Apple Special Edition of American Online with free trial membership
-CheckFree electronic bill-payment software
-Spectre Challenger
-Scrabble
Editor's Note: The spec sheet I have list's the microprocessor as a "38030",
but I corrected that. Didn't want to confuse anybody...
Tim
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
"Computer Friends" nubus card - good for doing graphics overlays on
your videos etc. $275 with apple 8 bit vid card, $225 without. Wont
sell vid card separately. UPS (U pay shipping).
cheers
Mike.
| 6misc.forsale |
-> I am looking for source-code for the radiosity-method.
I don't know what kind of machine you want it for, but the program
Radiance comes with 'C' source code - I don't have ftp access so I
couldn't tell you where to get it via that way.
--
Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario
416-629-7000/629-7044
| 1comp.graphics |
Where can I get xman source? I would like to get the binaries for
xman for an HP 9000/700, but I would settle for source.
--
John O.F. Long, BNR, Inc. | "If there is no God, who pops
jlong@bnr.ca | up the next Kleenex?"
#include <standard_disclaimer.h> | Art Hoppe
| 5comp.windows.x |
kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes:
>_TOO_ many.
Agreed. We need more folks to admit they're bi.
--
Michael D. Adams (starowl@a2i.rahul.net) Champaign, IL / southeast AL
"THRUSH believes in the two-party system: The masters and the slaves."
-- Napoleon Solo (from The Man from U.N.C.L.E)
| 18talk.politics.misc |
In article <speedy.156@engr.latech.edu> speedy@engr.latech.edu (Speedy Mercer) writes:
>I am confused (like THAT'S a surprise!), someone asked ME for a copy of the
>FAQ via E-Mail. As I am not the KotFAQ, I was wondering what the proper
>responce is?
Our panel of judges has deliberated the question, and the answer is:
Send the requester one copy, and then gang-FAQ yourself.
--
Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland
bgardner@dsd.es.com
| 8rec.motorcycles |
Frequently-asked questions about the OPEN LOOK Graphical User Interface.
If your question isn't here, please try (at *least*)
man openwin
man xnews
man 7 xview
and looking in the appropriate manuals listed in the Bibliography below
before posting to the comp.windows.open-look, comp.windows.x or
alt.toolkits.xview newsgroups and/or their corresponding mailing lists.
Special Notes:
* I have not updated this FAQ for the recently-announced OpenWindows 4,
due to ship later this year.
* Yes, Sun is moving to Motif, along with all of COSE. But the Motif to
which they move will be a new Motif, with some of the OPEN LOOK UI
features added.
* Yes, OpenWindows 4 will use DPS instead of NeWS. NeWS is dead.
This means TNT is dead, too.
* XView and OLIT will be supported, but probably not enhanced after the
next release. I don't know if there will be a source release of
XView 3.1 or not.
* The COSE Environment will include at least some of Sun's DeskSet,
ported to Motif. Look for Calendar Manager and Mailtool, at least.
* Yes, the new Mailtool will be MIME-compliant.
Frequently Asked Questions for X11 are posted to comp.windows.x monthly.
This is version: $Revision: 1.48 $; Last posted version: 1.46
Contents: (in rn and trn you can use control-G to go to the next topic)
Subject: Terminology: OPEN LOOK, OpenWindows, X11, XView, (MO)OLIT, Motif
Subject: Window Managers -- olwm, olvwm
Subject: OpenWindows, Terminals, and Other Displays
Subject: Configuration Files: Getting started with OpenWindows
Subject: Key Bindings, Cut and Paste
Subject: Applications: Finding Out...
Subject: DeskSet, Calendar Manager, etc.
Subject: Trouble Shooting: Strange Error Messages
Subject: Trouble Shooting: It Won't Let Me Type
Subject: Trouble Shooting: Not authorized to use display
Subject: Trouble Shooting: other common problems
Subject: Trouble Shooting: XView problems
Subject: Fonts
Subject: Environment Variables
Subject: Where Can I get It? Ftp, implementations, etc...
Subject: Bibliography -- books, manuals, journals, papers, beer-mats
Subject: Getting this File, Revision History, Recent Changes
Subject: Terminology: OPEN LOOK, OpenWindows, X11, XView, OLIT, MOOLIT, Motif
@ What is OPEN LOOK?
OPEN LOOK is a specification of a Graphical User Interface (GUI).
A GUI determines the `look and feel' of a system -- the shape of
windows, buttons and scroll-bars, how you resize things, how you
edit files, etc.
The OPEN LOOK GUI is specified, developed and maintained jointly by
Sun Microsystems and AT&T (or USL?).
See Also:
Bibliography
@ What is OpenWindows?
OpenWindows is a windowing environment that conforms to the OPEN LOOK
Graphical User Interface Specifications. It's compatible with the
X11 window system from MIT as well as (currently) Sun's NeWS and SunView,
so you can intermix programs written for any of those systems.
It comes from Sun and also with System V Release 4 from certain vendors.
OpenWindows is sometimes also called openwin or xnews, after the
program used to start it and the main executable itself, respectively.
It should not be called `Windows' or 'OPEN LOOK' or `OpenLook', as
these terms are either wrong or apply to something else.
A commerical OpenWindows source licence costs about $5,000 for the server,
plus about $25,000 for DeskSet, and another $40,000 for ToolTalk.
The current versions of OpenWindows for various platforms are:
SunOS 4.1.1 on Sun 3: 2.0
Solaris 1.x (SunOS 4.1.x) on SPARC: 3.0
Solaris 2.0 (SunOS 5) on SPARC: 3.0.1
See Also:
Mixing X11 and OpenWindows
Where can I get it?
@ What are OLIT, XView and TNT?
These are all toolkits for programmers to use in developing programs
that conform to the OPEN LOOK specifications. See the Bibliography
for documentation on the individual toolkits. Here's a brief summary:
OLIT was AT&T's OPEN LOOK Intrinsics Toolkit for the X Window system;
it used a widget set, and was probably the easiest for people who were
already X11/Xt programmers to learn. You could buy the source from AT&T,
although you didn't get the same version tht Sun ship. Sun includes the
OLIT library in OpenWindows (q.v.); it is also often included in
System V Release 4. It was written in C. The release of OLIT in
OpenWindows 3.0 was OLIT 3.0. OLIT support passed to USL (then a
division of AT&T, now owned by Novell), who replaced it with MoOLIT (q.v.).
Note that because of the nature of Xt subclassing, you will probably
want or need OLIT source in order to develop a large application or
anything else that uses subclasses.
[see the proceedings of the 1991 X Technical Conference]
XView is Sun's toolkit for X11, written in C. XView is similar in
programmer interface to SunView. There's even a shell script to help
migrate source code from SunView to XView. XView is often said to be
the easiest toolkit to learn if you are not familiar with X Windows.
The XView toolkit is included in OpenWindows, and full source is
available by anonymous ftp from export.lcs.mit.edu (and elsewhere).
The current version of XView from Sun is 3.0.
Despite rumours to the contrary -- some even from within Sun -- the
XView toolkit is *NOT* about to be dropped by Sun. XView *will* be
included in the next release of OpenWindows, unlike NeWS.
On the other hand, the XView toolkit is not likely to receive as much
attention from Sun in the future as OLIT.
The NeWS Toolkit (TNT) was an object-oriented programming system based
on the PostScript language and NeWS. TNT implements many of the
OPEN LOOK interface components required to build the user interface of
an application. It's currently included in OpenWindows.
The current version of TNT from Sun is 3.1; Release 3 contains some
incompatibilities with `tNt' 1.0 and TNT 2.0, but Sun are committed to
supporting the API, at least until they stop NeWS support some time
later this year and replace it with Display PostScript. Wail.
You might ask what `is committed to' means in this context; the
answer seems to be that it means absolutely nothing.
Sun currently asserts that it is committed to OLIT, however.
The C++ User Interface Toolkit (UIT) consists of an object-oriented C++
class library layered on top of XView and a tool to generate code from
DevGuide 3 GIL files. The UIT also includes features that simplify
event management and the use of PostScript and color. It is said to be
compatible with OpenWindows V2 and V3, and presumably V3.0.1, since the
release mentions that it works on Solaris 2.
UIT is not an official Sun-supported product but an ongoing project of
various people within Sun. It can be found on export.lcs.mit.edu in
the MIT contrib directory as UITV2.tar.Z (use binary mode!).
@ Where does Motif fit in?
It doesn't :-). Motif is an alternative Graphical User Interface that
is being developed by OSF. It has a `look and feel' reminiscent of
Microsoft Windows and the OS/2 Presentation Manager. There are no non-
commercial Motif toolkits available, although the Motif source is sold
reasonably cheaply by OSF. Although Motif is currently available on
more platforms than OpenWindows, the OPEN LOOK GUI is almost certainly
used on many more machines, simply because Sun (and SysVR4) have such a
large installed base.
Sun's CD/WARE Volume 2 contains a roadmap for improving Motif
applications by converting them to OLIT [:-)]; there are also notes in
the `Periodic Table' OLIT demo, $OPENWINHOME/demo/olittable.
@ What is MoOLIT?
MoOLIT is a version of OLIT from AT&T/USL that lets users choose between
a Motif and an OPEN LOOK UI feel at run-time. It will be part of System V
Release 4.2.
Contact: Joanne Newbauer, jo@usl.com, (908) 522-6677
@ What about that Display PostScript thing?
Sun and Adobe have agreed that Sun will include the DPS extension to X
in the next release of OpenWindows. DPS is essentially a badly designed
hack on top of a slow Level 2 PostScript interpreter intended to give a
very small subset of the functionality of NeWS whilst simultaneously
being harder to use, as I understand it. The only real advantage it
has over NeWS is that the manual is much smaller, being generally less
complete; DPS is also available on more kinds of machine.
Performance on our RS/6000 is not suitable for interactive work;
what it will be like on the SPARCStation remains to be seen.
Note that whereas X/NeWS fonts are shared by both subsystems, the DPS
extension to X does _not_ make Type 1 PostScript fonts available to
ordinary X11 programs. It is not like ATM on a PC in this regard.
(there is at least one third-party version which does make fonts
available, however)
Subject: Window Managers -- olwm, olvwm
@ What are olwm and olvwm?
They are window managers. A window manager is the part of the X Window
system (e.g. X11) that is responsible for deciding how to lay out windows
on the screen, and for managing the user's interaction with the windows.
Olwm is the standard OPEN LOOK window manager.
It's included with all of the OpenWindows (q.v.) implementations, and
you can also get the source by ftp, since Sun donated it.
Olvwm is a version of olwm that manages a `virtual desktop' (hence the
`v' in its name). It shows a little map on the screen, with the
currently displayed area represented by a little rectangle. You can
move around by dragging the rectangle or with the arrow keys. This
lets you run several clients (applications) and move the display around
from one to the other. Olvwm was derived from the OpenWindows 3.0 olwm
by Scott Oaks; you need to have XView 3.0 to compile it.
Get olvwm from an ftp site such as export.lcs.mit.edu (in the contrib
directory; there are three patches).
@ Can I use my favorite window manager with OpenWindows instead of olwm?
Yes. If you use twm, for example, or mwm, you won't be able to use
the Pin and Unpin feature of olwm, and you (probably) won't see the
footers some windows use to display certain messages.
If you use twm, you'll want to use the f.delete function to unpin menus
and get rid of programs that don't have a `quit' button when not run
under olwm.
For twm, put this in your $HOME/.twmrc:
LeftTitleButton "target" = f.delete
where "target" is a 16x16 icon from /usr/include/X11/bitmaps.
Alternatively, try
# Add a menu to each window managed by twm or tvtwm
LeftTitleButton ":menu" = f.menu "OL.menu"
menu "OL.menu" {
"Quit" f.delete
}
For mwm, you can double-click on the menu icon on the left of the title
bar to dismiss a pop-up window (I am told).
See the manual page for your window manager (twm, etc).
Subject: OpenWindows, Terminals, and Other Displays
@ Can I use olwm and olvwm without OpenWindows or on an X Terminal?
The OpenWindows xnews server combines SunView, NeWS (PostScript) and X11.
This means that it can run programs compiled for any of those systems.
Unfortunately, it means that some OpenWindows programs need either NeWS
or SunView support, and thus won't run on an X terminal. This includes
pageview in particular.
You can use olwm or olvwm (see above) on an X terminal or a non-Open-
Windows display, and most OPEN LOOK clients (e.g. OLIT or XView ones)
will work perfectly well. You may find that you get complaints about
fonts not being found. If so, see the Fonts section below.
If you are running the window manager built-in to an NCD terminal, you
may have problems with input focus; setting *Input: True in the terminal's
XDefault file in /usr/lib/X11/xdm may or may not help.
Subject: Configuration Files: Getting started with OpenWindows
@ What configuration files do I need to know about?
.xinitrc and .xsessionrc
The first time you run OpenWindows, a .xinitrc file will be created in
your login directory ($HOME). If it already exists, you might have to
edit it somewhat; it's simplest to move it and any other old X11 files
you have to another directory, and then merge the old and new files.
If your site uses xdm, you should use .xsession instead of .xinitrc,
since xdm doesn't look at your .xinitrc file.
.openwin-init, .openwin-menu and .openwin-sys
These are optional files you can create in your $HOME directory,
depending on which version of olwm or olvwm you use.
Look in $OPENWINHOME/lib (normally /usr/openwin/lib) for these files
without the leading . and copy any you want to change. You may need
to edit your .xinitrc to get them recognized. If you are not on an
X terminal, you will want to run a console window (such as cmdtool -C,
shelltool -C, xterm -C) or Chuck Musciano's "contool" program so that
system output will be directed there instead of writing over your screen.
Note that .openwin-sys is not executed unless you edit .xinitrc.
.Xdefaults
You can put X Windows resource specifications in here. In particular,
it is a good idea to include at least:
OpenWindows.FocusLenience: true
*Input: TRUE
These allow non-ICCCM-compliant programs to receive input even if they
forget to ask for it.
Props, the program that runs when you select `properties' from the default
root menu under olwm or olvwm, writes your choices into .Xdefaults.
Don't put comments in .Xdefaults, since `props' deletes them.
.startup.ps
This is the NeWS user profile file, read by OpenWindows (actually xnews)
on startup. This is documented in the NeWS programming manual, near the
back. The most useful thing to put here is PostScript code to change
the keyboard repeat rate, although you must be very careful, since a
syntax error in the PostScript means that xnews will either not start up
at all or will get broken in strange ways. The NeWS manual gives code
that is both incorrect and insufficient.
WARNING: things in this file rarely work on both OpenWindows 2 and 3.
Note that the mouse speed is best set in your .xinitrc with xset m; see
the man page for xset ("man xset", and "xset -help") for more information.
Here's what $HOME/.startup.ps should look like if you want a delay of
about a third of a second (300000 microseconds), and a repeat rate of
twenty or so keys per second (30000 microseconds between repeats) for
OpenWindows 3. You'll have to experiment a bit because the RepeatTime
is the delay between keys sent, and thus doesn't include the time to
process each key, which is probably higher on my 4/110 than on your
SuperSPARC 10/51 GTi injection :-) Again, this is for OpenWindows 3...
% don't want the demos - see p. xxxii of NeWS Toolkit Reference Manual
% /IncludeDemos? false def
UserProfile begin
/KeyRepeatThresh 0 300000 timeval storetimeval def
/KeyRepeatTime 0 30000 timeval storetimeval def
% Note: 300000 and 30000 differ greatly...
end
You must also have a .user.ps file in the same directory, like this:
/NeWS 3 0 findpackage beginpackage
/TNTCore 3 0 findpackage beginpackage
/TNT 3 0 findpackage beginpackage
ClassRepeatKeys pop % force repeat.ps to autoload
endpackage endpackage endpackage
If you change these parameters, you can test them without restarting the
OpenWindows server like this:
$ psh -i .startup.ps
Welcome to X11/NeWS Version3
$ psh -i
Welcome to X11/NeWS Version3
/classinit ClassRepeatKeys send
%%% now press control-D
You can also either of these two files (.startup.ps and .user.ps) to make
the root window be "retained", so that a PostScript drawing on the
background won't be erased when you move windows:
frambuffer /Retained true put
will do this. Note that this may increase the amount of memory used
by the NeWS server (xnews) dramatically.
See also:
Trouble Shooting: It Won't Let Me Type
Trouble Shooting: Is there an easy way to edit Xdefaults?
Environment Variables
@ How can I configure OPEN LOOK for a left-handed mouse and keyboard?
You can use xmodmap to change the mouse buttons, but be prepared for one
or two occasional surprises. See also "man 7 xview" for a list of
keybindings you can change, at least for XView programs.
With OpenWindows 2.0, you can use defaultsedit to set the mouse mappings
and then let SunView handle them. The status returned by svenv should
tell you whether your server is running under SunView or not; put this
in your .xinitrc:
if eval `svenv -env`
then
xmodmap -e "pointer = 1 2 3"
input_from_defaults
else
xmodmap -e "pointer = 3 2 1"
fi
@ How can I get the screen to go blank when the system is idle?
Run screenblank from /etc/rc.local if you can; it's a boring but
effective screen saver. See `man screenblank'.
Under Solaris 2 you'll need to copy screenblank from an older system, as
it's not supplied. Then add a new file in /etc/rc2.d to make the system
run screenblank automatically.
Subject: Key Bindings, Cut and Paste
@ How do I cut and paste between XTerm and OpenWindows programs?
To go from XTerm to textedit (say):
* Select the text you want to copy by dragging the SELECT mouse button
in xterm
* Press COPY in the XTerm (this key is L6, or Meta+c (the O'Reilly
XView manual gets this wrong)
* Move to the textedit window, and press PASTE (L8 or Meta+v)
If this doesn't work, see Trouble Shooting: Cut and Paste
To go the other way, from textedit to XTerm:
* Select the text in textedit. No need to use COPY
* Move to the XTerm window and press ADJUST (the middle mouse button).
* You can also use the COPY/CUT and PASTE buttons.
@ COPY/PASTE is boring. What short-cuts are available?
Quick Copy within textedit, mailtool, etc:
* Click SELECT to get a text caret where you want the copied text to go
* Press and HOLD DOWN the PASTE (or CUT) button
* Select the text you want to copy/move. You'll see that it's underlined
or crossed out, as appropriate. (In the jed demo it goes grey)
* Let go of the PASTE (or CUT) button.
* The text you underlined or crossed out appears at the insert caret.
Drag and Drop to Move a Selection
* Select the text you want to copy or move, by dragging or multiple-
clicking the SELECT or ADJUST mouse button
* Put the mouse pointer anywhere within the selection
* Press and HOLD DOWN down the SELECT mouse button, and move the mouse
pointer a little to the right; you'll see the cursor changes to be the
first 3 letters of the text (or some other icon).
* Still holding SELECT down, move the mouse over the point where you want
to drop the text
* You may see the mouse pointer change to a rifle-sight or target, to show
that it's OK to drop things here
* Let go of SELECT, and the text is moved. This works in text fields of
dialogue boxes as well as in text subwindows.
Drag and Drop to Copy a Selection
* This is the same as using Drag and Drop to Move a Selection, except that
you must hold the CONTROL key down as well as the SELECT mouse button.
@ What are the default key bindings in textedit and elsewhere?
See the man page for textedit(1) for some of them.
In general, the editing/moving commands go in the opposite direction when
shifted - e.g. Ctrl+w deletes a word, and Ctrl+W deletes the word to the
right of the insert point.
Meta-i - include file Meta-f - find selection (forward/backward)
Ctrl-a - start of line Ctrl-< - back word
Ctrl-e - end of line Ctrl-> - forward word
Ctrl-w - delete word Ctrl-u - delete to start/END of line
Ctrl-Return - move to end/START of document
See the O'Reilly XView Reference Manual for a list of some of the default
keys; see also the olwm or olvwm manual page.
@ What can I put in my .ttysrc? Where is it documented?
See the manual page for shelltool.
Subject: Applications: Finding Out...
Contact SunSoft (or Sun) and ask for the Catalyst OPEN LOOK guide,
which lists over 200 pages of applications, and also the _huge_
Catalyst listing of products for Suns, updated six-monthly.
Sun's free CDWare CD/ROMs each contain demo versions of several popular
OPEN LOOK applications. Often you can simply contact the vendor
concerned to have the license upgraded from demo, and receive the full
product documentation.
SunPICS produces a CD/ROM for NeWSPrint users, Printer's Pallate, which
contains NeWSprint drivers for a variety of printers and plotters, as
well as 600 scaleable fonts that you can license.
There is a separate FAQ posting in comp.windows.open-look that lists
a number of free and commercial aplications; mail lee@sq.com for a
copy, including OPEN LOOK UI Application List in the Subject for a
faster reply.
Subject: DeskSet, Mailtool, Calendar Manager, etc.
@ Is there a tty-based interface to cm (Calendar Manager)?
Yes, cm_delete, cm_insert and cm_lookup; these all have manual pages.
If "man cm_delete" doesn't work or gives strange messages, see under
Trouble Shooting: Strange Error Messages, below.
@ How can I arrange to have my .signature included in my outgoing mail?
The best way is:
$ cd
$ cp /usr/lib/.textswrc .
$ chmod +w .textswrc
edit .textswrc (use vi, textedit, or whatever you prefer)
add the follwing:
KEY_RIGHT(3) FILTER
cat ~/.signature
(you might need to change ~ to $HOME)
Now pressing R3 will insert your .signature file.
Subject: Fonts
@ Does OpenWindows support Type 1 PostScript fonts?
Yes, under either Solaris 2.0 or 2.1 (I'm not sure which).
Or, Not Yet, in other words.
If you have FrameMaker there is a utility to import them, I'm told.
The 57 fonts supplied with OpenWindows are fully hinted, though, and
comparing them to the Microsoft Windows and Apple TrueType fonts is
interesting... The F3 font format is described in a publication from the
Sun OpenFonts group, listed in the Bibliography below. Documentation on
the unbundled version of TypeScaler is also available from Sun OpenFonts.
You can buy F3 fonts from SunPICS, Monotype, Linotype, URW and probably
other major foundries.
SunPICS' NeWSPrint software supports Type 1 fonts.
@ Improving font rendering time
Although the Sun type renderer (TypeScaler) is pretty fast, it's not as
fast as loading a bitmap :-). You can pre-generate bitmap fonts for sizes
that you use a lot, and you can also alter and access the font cache
parameters. If you have a lot of memory you might want to increase the
font cache size.
$ psh -i
Welcome to X11/NeWS Version3 <--- psh will say this at you
currentfontmem = % type this line ...
300 % and here's whai my server was using -- 300 Kbytes
1024 setfontmem
% Just to check:
currentfontmem =
1024
See pp. 328ff of the NeWS 3.0 Programmer's Guide. You need to say psh -i
so that the PostScript packages are loaded - see the psh man page.
@ Making bitmap fonts for faster startup:
$ mkdir $HOME/myfonts
$ cd $HOME/myfonts
$ makeafb -20 -M $OPENWINHOME/lib/fonts/Bembo.f3b
Creating Bembo20.afb
$ convertfont -b Bembo20.afb
Bembo20.afb->./Bembo20.fb
Chars parameter greater than number of characters supplied.
$ ls
Bembo20.afb Bembo20.fb Synonyms.list
$ bldfamily
* Bembo ./Bembo.ff (Encoding: latin)
cat: ./Compat.list: No such file or directory
$ xset +fp `pwd`
$ xset fp rehash
If you want the server to see your new font directory every time,
add this directory to your FONTPATH environment variable in one
of your start-up files, e.g. .login or .profile.
@ Converting between font formats (convertfont, etc.)
You can also use Folio fonts with an X11 server, by converting them to a
bitmap (X11 bdf format) first. Your licence forbids you from using the
fonts on another machine, and unless you have NeWSPrint you shouldn't
use them for printing. Having said all that... you can use makeafb and
convertfont to generate bdf files that you can compile with bdftosnf or
bdftopcf.
Use mftobdf (from the SeeTeX distribution) to convert TeX pk fonts to
X11 bdf format, which you can then use with either X11 or OenWindows.
You can also use der Mouse's "getbdf" to get bdf fonts from a running
X display server -- ftp: larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (132.206.1.1) /X/getbdf
@ Xview/OLIT fonts at 100 dpi
There aren't any. More precisely, the various text fonts, such as
Lucida Typewriter Sans, are available at 100 dpi, and in fact are
scalable under OpenWindows. The glyph fonts are bitmaps, and don't
scale very well.
Subject: Trouble Shooting: Strange Error Messages
@ No manual entry for cm_lookup
If man doesn't seem to find OpenWindows commands, even though you are
running OpenWindows, try setting the MANPATH environment variable:
MANPATH=$OPENWINHOME/share/man:/usr/man; export MANPATH
or
setenv MANPATH $OPENWINHOME/share/man:/usr/man
for csh users. $OPENWINHOME should be /usr/openwin on most systems.
@ window: Window creation failed to get new fd
@ window: Base frame not passed parent window in environment
@ Cannot create base frame. Process aborted.
These messages all come from SunView programs. SunView was an
earlier windowing system for Suns, and was not networked. Some of
the SunView programs are still around in /usr/bin, and have names
that are the same as their OpenWindows counterparts. You almost
certainly want to run the programs in $OPENWINHOME instead.
Set your path so that $OPENWINHOME/bin (and $OPENWIN/bin/xview for
OpenWindows 2) come before /bin (or /usr/bin, they're the same), or
you'll get the SunView versions of mailtool, cmdtool, shelltool, etc.
@ memory fault - core dumped
If you get this from the binder, or if binder vanishes suddenly,
get the following patches:
100493-02 Binder
100524-03 Cetables
100626-03 Tooltalk
@ Trouble compiling Xt, Xmu or OLIT programs: _get_wmShellWidgetClass
If you are using OpenWindows 3.0 (X11R4-based Xt), contact your local
Sun office and request the following patches:
100512-02 4.1.x OpenWindows 3.0 libXt Jumbo patch
100573-03 4.1.x OpenWindows 3.0 undefined symbols when using shared libXmu
If you can't install the patch, a workaround is to add
-u get_wmShellWidgetClass -u get_applicationShellWidgetClass
on the link (ld or cc ... -o ...) line. An alternative is to add
-assert nodefinitions
to CFLAGS in your Makefile, or even in Imake.tmpl.
Subject: Trouble Shooting: It Won't Let Me Type
@ When I try to type into some programs, I just get beeps or nothing happens
It is a good idea to include at least:
OpenWindows.FocusLenience: true
*Input: TRUE
in your .Xdefaults file, as these allow non-ICCCM-compliant programs to
receive input even if they forget to ask for it.
See the next item for editing .Xdefaults
Subject: Trouble Shooting: Cut and Paste not working
@ I can't paste from xterm to XView (including Sun DeskSet) programs
Under OpenWindows 2, you need to add the following either to your
$HOME/.Xdefaults file, or to $OPENWINHOME/lib/app-defaults/XTerm instead:
XTerm*VT100.Translations: #override \
<Key>L6:select-set(CLIPBOARD)\n\
<Key>L8:insert-selection(CLIPBOARD)
You must not move the mouse between ending the selection and pressing
L8 (the Paste key)!
Under OpenWindows 3, this is already in the app-defaults file, so if it
isn't working, check that XFILESEARCHPATH is set to
/usr/openwin/lib/%T/%N%S
and if it isn't, either set it or copy/merge the above lines from
$OPENWINHOME/lib/app-defaults/XTerm into /usr/lib/X11/app-defaults/XTerm.
[See also: Environment Variables]
This version automatically puts each xterm selection onto the clipboard:
XTerm*VT100.translations: #override\n\
~Ctrl ~Meta<Btn2Up>: insert-selection(PRIMARY,CUT_BUFFER0)\n\
~Ctrl ~Meta<BtnUp>: select-end(PRIMARY,CUT_BUFFER0,CLIPBOARD)\n\
<KeyPress>L8: insert-selection(CLIPBOARD)
[Note: be sure that the \n\ is at the very end of the line, there must
be no following spaces, and any + or | signs showing that this FAQ file
was altered must also be removed!]
If you are using X11R5, you may find that adding the lines
<Key>L10: start-extend() select-end(PRIMARY, CLIPBOARD, CUT_BUFFER0)\n\
<KeyRelease>L10: kill-selection() \n
before the <KeyPress>L8 line will make L10 (CUT) work as a cut key!
If you alter $HOME/.Xdefaults instead, you must use what X calls a
`more specific' resource name:
xterm.vt100.translations
will do.
@ I can't paste from XView (including Sun DeskSet) programs to xterm
If you don't have the Sun L keys on the left of your keyboard, you can
use Meta-x, Meta-c and Meta-v for cut, coy and paste respectively.
You can change the keys by adding the following two lines to
your .Xdefaults file, edited as you wish (the values shown here are the
defaults):
Openwindows.KeyboardCommand.Copy: c+Meta,L6
OpenWindows.KeyboardCommand.Paste", "v+Meta,L8
Lists of resources are in the manual page for xview, and also in the
thinnish blue book `Companion to Volume 7, XView Reference Manual' from
O'Reilly, and also in the olwm and olvwm manual pages.
@ I always get the same piece of text when I press PASTE (L8, Meta+v)
Remove the file /tmp/textsw_shelf and see if that helps; see also the
next item.
@ Cut Copy and Paste don't work at all (OpenWindows only)
Oh dear. Use ps -xuaww | grep xv to check that sv_xv_sel_svc is running
and that either you or root started it, depending on whether you started
OpenWindows with "openwin" or by logging in through xdm.
If not, start it. If it dies, check that there is no /tmp/.sv_xv_sel_svc
before restarting it - you may need to be root to remove it, or you can
reboot your workstation.
Check that there is space in /tmp (use "df /tmp"), and also see if there
are a lot of files there with names like /tmp/tty.txt.a01246; if there are
several hundred of them, cut and paste may take so long that it times out.
Quit any deskset tools such as mailtool, filemgr and cm (calendar), start
a terminal emulator and remove and /tmp/tty.txt* and /tmp/Text* files
that are still there. It's simplest to quit openwin and start it again
after doing that, if cut and paste was broken, but if it starts working
again you can just carry on. Note that files in /tmp not owned by you
might be in use by another worker comrade, so don't remove those without
checking first!
Subject: Trouble Shooting: Not authorized to use display
If you get error messages that look like
Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server
Xlib: Internal error during connection authorization check
Error: Can't Open display
try, on the machine running OpenWindows or X11,
xhost +machine
where "machine" is the computer on which you ran the command that failed.
If you want to let other users run programs on the same machine as you,
using your display, you will have to type the bizarre-looking
xhost +`hostname`
(or xhost +happyboy, if happyboy is the name of your workstation).
This lets ANY user on `happyboy' access your display.
With OpenWindows 3.0 you can also use xauth, and the Programmer's Guide
describes how to do this in Chapter 8, p. 101. This is more secure.
Also check the man page for fbtab(5) to stop other users accessing the
framebuffer directly!
Also note that there is a Sun patch for OpenWindows 3.0 under SunOS 4.1.1
to fix a serious security problem. It is available through your local
Sun Answer Center as well as through anonymous ftp from ftp.uu.net
[192.48.96.2] system in /sun-dist:
Fix PatchID Filename Checksum
loadmodule 1076118 100448-01.tar.Z 04354 5
On an X Terminal, there may be a setup menu that lets you change or
disable the list of hosts that can access the display.
If you start getting this message after you've been logged in overnight,
there might be a cron job that's removing the Unix sockets in /tmp
that are used to communicate with the server when $DISPLAY doesn't have
a hostname before the :, or is empty. Have the system administrator
change the cron script to skip sockets.
Subject: Trouble Shooting: other common problems
@ I get console error messages on my screen and they don't go away (Sun 3 or 4)
If "refresh" makes the messages vanish, but new ones come along later,
you need to run "xterm -C" from your .xinitrc, or start one up in
the background and then choose Save Workspace from the
Workspace->Utilities menu. Better still, pick up "contool" and run
that. Get it from export.lcs.mit.edu in the contrib directory. It
will monitor the console and open, flash its icon or beep when a
message appears; it's very easy to configure.
If "refresh" from the Workspace->Utilities menu doesn't make the messages,
go away...
a Sun with a cg4 frame buffer has two screens - you can move the
mouse off the right-hand (by default) edge of the screen and onto
a whole new (but monochrome) display, called ":0.1". See the man.
page for openwin; I have a shell script that checks for this and,
if there's a /dev/cgfour0, does
openwin -dev /dev/cgfour0 -dev /dev/bwtwo0
If you are running X11 or OpenWindows 2, you might need to add this
to your .xinitrc or other startup file:
(
eval `svenv -display unix:0.1 -env`
olvwm -display unix:0.1
) &
Later releases of olwm and olvwm do this automatically.
You can also run switcher -e 0 to get rid of the messages. Also, see
the note about contool, above.
@ Is there an easy way of editing .Xdefaults?
Use `props', which appears in the default root menu as `properties'.
This starts `props', a property editor which will re-write your
.Xdefaults after removing comments. It then applies any changes.
Keep comments by using "comment." instead of "!", for example,
comment.*.font: Palatino-Italic-37
@ How do I get the File manager to use emacs instead of textedit?
set the default editor to
sh -c "exec emacs -font lucidasanstypewriter-18 \"$FILE\""
(you can change the font if you prefer a smaller one)
@ How do I run OpenWindows in inverse video?
This tends not to work under OpenWindows 2. With OpwnWindows 3.0,
there are various ways, including using -bg and -fg options. If you're
using OpenWindows 2 on a Sun 3 , probably the best you can do (short of
upgrading the workstation to a SPARC!) is to use xterm instead of cmdtool.
@ Why don't flat check-boxes work?
A known bug may make Guide's output dump core if you use these.
A workaround is to edit the Guide output, as it's only Guide's output
that's broken, not the actual check-box code.
This applies only to versions of DevGuide before Devguide 3.0. If you're
still using an ancient DevGuide, you should upgrade as soon as possible;
the new one is fantastic!
@ When I leave OpenWindows, my screen goes blank or my mouse cursor stays
on the screen.
Try running clear_colormap; if this helps, put it as the last line in
the shell script you use to start OpenWindows (e.g. `openwin').
@ When I use snapshot, the system crashes, or the server hangs, or something.
This was a bug related to some systems only. The only work-round was to
use some other screen dump program, such as xwd, xv 2.21 or xgrabsc.
@ Why have some of my function keys stopped working?
Keys F11 and F12 changed from SunF36 and SunF37 to SunXK_F36 and SunXK_F37
respectively in OpenWindows 3. Applications must be recompiled, or you
might be able to use xmodmap or the public domain xkeycaps program to
change your keyboard layout back again.
@ When I type shelltool or cmdtool or textedit, I get the Sunview version
See under "Trouble Shooting: Strange Error Messages" below.
(see also next item)
@ Mixing X11 and OpenWindows
(see also next item)
Note that OpenWindows 3.0 includes the X11R4 core distribution (to patch
level 18), but not the contrib directory. These notes apply to
OpenWindows 2.0, although you could also the do same sort of thing with
OpenWindows 3.0 and X11R5.
Install the X11 libraries in /usr/lib/X11. You can intermix OpenWindows
and X11R4 or X11R5, they're all compatible in this respect.
Put the X11 binaries in (for example) /usr/bin/X11.
Put /usr/bin/X11 last in your PATH, so that you get OpenWindows versions
of programs instead of X11 ones where appropriate, although this is a
matter of preference. In any event, put the OpenWindows bin directory
first -- see the preceding item for more details on that. If you have
/bin (or /usr/bin, they're the same directory on SunOS) earlier in
your PATH than $OPENWINHOME/bin/xview, you'll get SunView programs instead
of OpenWindows ones!
Set LD_LIBRARY_PATH so that /usr/openwin/lib is last, after the X11
library directory. This doesn't matter with OpenWindows 3.0, but with
older versions you'll get error messages from X11 programs if you don't
do this. The messages are generally harmless (see next item), although
xdm core dumps if this isn't right.
Set OPENWINHOME to the directory containing OpenWindows if it isn't
/usr/openwin.
See Also:
Environment Variables (especially XFILESEARCHPATH).
@ I get error messages on my screen about ld.so: libX11.so.4 not found
set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to be /usr/openwin. If you also use X11, use
/usr/lib:/usr/5lib:/usr/openwin/lib
If you put this in a shell script or your .profile, use
${OPENWINHOME-/usr/openwin}/lib instead of /usr/openwin; this is for
/bin/sh; for csh it is different.
@ I launch my filemgr and I get ld.so:map heap error (9) at /dev/zero
Your system needs to be patched. Look in $OPENWINHOME/lib/OSpatches
and install the patch.
@ Why doesn't AnswerBook run for me?
You must be running OpenWindows to use AnswerBook. It won't run under
X11 (on an X terminal or on anything else) because it uses NeWS to draw
the PostScript text and pictures.
If you are using OpenWindows 3.0, you need to use the OpenWindows 3.0
compatible navigator; it's called .navigator.ow3 on the AnswerBook CD/ROM.
If all AnswerBook users are using OpenWindows 3.0, you can replace
navigator wih .navigator.ow3 altogether (rename the old one first to
satisfy your sense of paranoia!)
The navigator.ow3 binary is also on CD/Ware Vol 2.
Note that the data files are in PostScript, so you can look at them with
a PostSript viewer (q.v.).
@ Why aren't there any fish in realxfishdb?
A fixed version of realxfishdb is available by ftp from
ftp.eng.auburn.edu [131.204.10.91] as /pub/realxfishdb.Z
@ Why is the Properties choice disabled in the Window menu?
It isn't implemented yet. Many programs do respond to the Properties
Key (L3), though, or have a pop-up menu with Properties on it.
@ File completion in the C-shell is broken in cmdtool
Sadly true, but use shelltool or xterm instead and it's fine. It also
works if you run command tool on a remote machine.
Fixed in OpenWindows 3.0.1 shipped with Solaris 2.
@ When I run OLIT programs, some of the widgets are red!
Release 3 of OLIT added mouseless operation; action widgets can be
selected via the keyboard. The currently selected item is highlighted
in red (the `Red Stain') to show that it has the input focus.
To disable it in most places, add this to your $HOME/.Xdefaults file:
*traversalOn: off
*TextEdit.traversalOn: on
*TextField.traversalOn: on
You can change the color using (for example)
*InputFocusColor: grey50
*input*FocusColor: green
*List*inputFocusColor: <your background color>
See the man page resources(3w), at the start of the OLIT 3 Widget Set
Reference Manual included in the OpenWindows 3 programmer documentation.
Meanwhile contact your distributor and ask for patch id 100451-30, the
OLIT/3.0 CTE Jumbo Patch.
@ When I run several programs, the colors on the screen all change when
I move into a different window! ("colormap flashing")
This is becasue most hardware can only display a few colors at a time.
However, you can minimise the effect with the following procedure:
* Start all the applications with colors that you wish to reserve.
* Run
cmap_compact save
to create the .owcolors file
* Put the line
cmap_compact init
near the start of your start-up file (.xinitrc)
* Exit and then restart the window system.
* cmap_compact init will push those colors .owcolors to the end of
the colormap and reserves them.
Also note that control-L2 locks the colors of the current window, and
Control-L4 unlocks them -- this is described in the olwm manual page.
@ pageiew uses the wrong colors, or makes the colormap flash (see above):
This problem was reported by people for some reason running the Motif
window manager (mwm) with OpenWindows.
Try running pageview like this:
$OPENWINHOME/bin/reservecolors -svmono
$OPENWINHOME/bin/pageview
$OPENWINHOME/bin/reservecolors -discard
@ XDM breaks things
Command tool doesn't like being run without a Unix `controlling terminal'.
Use /etc/setsid to start your command tools and all will be well.
SunView applications may need to be run with svenv, as in
svenv -exec /usr/bin/traffic
because xdm won't set the necessary environment variables.
Note that the MIT xdm starts up the X server as root, which is a security
hole for OpenWindows; use the OpenWindows 3.0 xdm or be aware that your
users can access files and start Unix processes ass root...
@ Function keys 11 and 12 stopped working
In OpenWindows 3.0, the X11 names ("keysyms") for these keys was changed
to SunXK_F36 and SunXK_F37. Code which uses them should be recompiled,
or you might be able to get away with
xmodmap -e 'keysym SunXK_F36 = SunF36'
Subject: Trouble Shooting: XView problems
This section is here only until an XView FAQ appears, which has been
promised, but hasn't reached here. Note that there is also a usenet
newsgroup, alt.toolkits.xview, although it doesn't sem to have very
wide distribution and has triffic of the order of one or two articles
per month. You should also look at the FAQ in comp.windows.x.
@ how do I set the font of individual Scrolling List items?
PANEL_LIST_FONT takes an int row_number and an Xv_opaque font_handle.
PANEL_LIST_FONTS take a NULL terminated list of Xv_opaque font_handles.
There is no easy way to make an entire list fixed width font.
You have to make sure that you always specify PANEL_LIST_FONT when you
insert a new row into that list, or write a convenience function
insert_row(list, row, string) that hides the nasty bits.
@ how do I keep an XView pop-up window displayed after a button is pressed?
In the button callback, do
xv_set(button, PANEL_NOTIFY_STATUS, XV_ERROR, NULL);
This will keep the window visible.
You might also need to investigate the MENU_NOTIFY_STATUS attribute.
@ how do I make an XView button look pressed?
call panel_begin_preview() and panel_cancel_preview(); these are
documented in -- er -- the XView 3 source...
@ OpenWindows 3 imake doesn't work properly
Here is Greg Earle's patch, to be applied in $OPENWINHOME; note that you
should edit lib/config/sun.cf afterwards to get OSName and
OSMinorVersion right (MinorVersion is 1 in SunOS 4.1.2, for example).
I have edited the patch a little, so any bugs are mine [lee@sq.com] :-)
*** bin/xmkmf.orig Wed Sep 18 07:02:02 1991
--- bin/xmkmf Tue Aug 6 00:39:20 1991
***************
*** 30,34 ****
elif [ -n "$OPENWINHOME" ]; then
! args="-DUseInstalled $OPENWINHOME/lib/config"
else
--- 30,34 ----
elif [ -n "$OPENWINHOME" ]; then
! args="-I$OPENWINHOME/lib/config -DUseInstalled -DXCOMM='/**/#'"
else
*** lib/config/site.def.orig Wed Sep 18 01:26:19 1991
--- lib/config/site.def Tue Aug 6 00:44:37 1991
***************
*** 0 ****
--- 1,7 ----
+ #define BinDir $(OPENWINHOME)/bin
+ #define LibDir $(OPENWINHOME)/lib
+ #define IncRoot $(OPENWINHOME)/share/include
+ #define InstallNonExecFile(file,dest) @@\
+ install:: file @@\
+ $(INSTALL) -c $(INSTDATFLAGS) file dest
+ #define NullParameter
[Note: the patch is new, but I have not marked each line with a "+" -- Liam]
Subject: Environment Variables
Environment variables, and plausible values to use -- this list doesn't
take into account any local changes that you might have made, of course.
This list is for OpenWindows 3.0 -- differences for OpenWindows 2.0 are
marked, and I've added some comments for users of X11R4 and X11R5, too.
DISPLAY The name of the X Windows Display to use
:0.0 (on the local machine, the one actually running X11 or xnews)
:0.1 (on some machines for a second, monochrome screen)
machine-running-unix:0.0 (on other machines)
(You may need to do "xhost +other-machine" to let programs on other
machines use your display; see also under Trouble Shooting, and see
the section on xauth in the OpenWindows Version 3 Programmer's Guide,
pp. 101ff)
See also: console messages, under Trouble Shooting
FONTPATH Where xnews searches for fonts
/usr/openwin/lib/fonts
(you can also use "xset fp+ dir" to add a directory to the font path,
but you may have to do "xset fp rehash" afterwards. This is fine
under OpenWindows, but many X11 servers have font problems)
HELPPATH Where XView looks when you press the Help key (or F1)
/usr/openwin/lib/locale:/usr/openwin/lib/help
(On SunOS 4.0.*, or with OpenWindows 2.0, omit the first entry, which
is for sites using a local other than "C" or "USA").
LD_LIBRARY_PATH Where to look to find shared C libraries
/usr/lib:/usr/5lib:/usr/openwin/lib:/usr/CC/`arch`
(the /usr/CC/`arch`/lib entry is only needed if you use C++ programs)
OPENWINHOME Where OpenWindows lives
/usr/openwin
KEYBOARD, MOUSE -- serial devices to use instead of the console
(don't set these for normal use; /dev/kbd and /dev/mouse)
PATH Where the Shell searches for programs to run
$(OPENWINHOME)/bin:$(OPENWINHOME)/bin/xview:/usr/local/bin:.\
$HOME/bin.`arch`:/usr/ucb:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/hosts:\
(you will certainly want to change this example! There is no
$(OPENWINHOME)/bin/xview in OpenWindows 3.0)
XFILESEARCHPATH Where programs look for app-defaults files
/usr/openwin/lib/%T/%N%S
(This is set automatically by "openwin" in OpenWindows 3.0)
You might want to use /usr/lib/X11/%T/%N%S, or perhaps both,
separated with a :, for example (for sh users)
XFILESEARCHPATH=$OPENWINHOME/lib/%T/%N%S:/usr/lib/X11/%T/%N%S
export XFILESEARCHPATH
If you use X11R5, you might instead want
/usr/lib/X11/%L/%T/%N%C%S:
/usr/lib/X11/%l/%T/%N%C%S:
/usr/lib/X11/%T/%N%C%S:
/usr/lib/X11/%L/%T/%N%S:
/usr/lib/X11/%l/%T/%N%S:
/usr/lib/X11/%T/%N%S:
$OPENWINHOME/lib/%T/%N%S
(put all this on one line, though, with no spaces!)
Together with the following in lib/Xinitrc
xrdb -merge <<'END_XRDB'
*customization:
END_XRDB
xrdb -merge <<'END_XRDB'
#ifdef COLOR
*customization: -color
#endif
END_XRDB
you automatically get a color oclock, editres, bitmap, xcalc, and
xlogo since they use the "*customization" resource appearing as %C in
the XFILESEARCHPATH. (see oclock (n))
according to Rainer Sinkwitz <sinkwitz@ifi.unizh.ch>.
Subject: Where Can I get It? Ftp, implementations, etc...
XView 3.0 is available by anonymous ftp from export.lcs.mit.edu and
elsewhere.
MoOLIT can be bought from AT&T in source form.
OpenWindows can be obtained from Sun, or you can get the source from
Interactive Systems Inc. It is also included in some vendors' System V
Release 4 implementations, although that's not always the latest version.
The current release of OpenWindows from Sun for supported architectures
is 3.0; for the Sun 3 series it is frozen at OpenWindows 2.0.
Note that Sun includes OpenWindows with SunOS, and it is also included as
the windowing system for Solaris.
There are said (by Sun) to be over 35 ports of OpenWindows either
available now or in progress. Unfortunately, none of them seem to
be available from anywhere. Contact anthony@ovi.com for more information.
Subject: Bibliography: books, manuals, journals, papers, beer-mats
The OPEN LOOK (tm) Graphical Interface is documented in two books:
Sun Microsystems Inc., `OPEN LOOK Graphical User Interface Application
Style Guidelines', Addison Wesley, 1989
and
Sun Microsystems Inc., `OPEN LOOK Graphical User Interface Functional
Specification', Addison Wesley
The Main documentation for the X Window system comes from
O'Reilly & Associates in about nine or ten volumes.
The most useful for OPEN LOOK users are:
Volume 1: XLib Programming Manual
Volume 2: XLib Reference Manual
Volume 3: X Window System User's Guide
(An OPEN LOOK edition of Volume 3 should appear later this year)
Volume 7: XView Programmer's Manual [Dan Heller]
[make sure you get the 3rd edition for XView 3.0]
Companion to Volume 7: XView Reference Manual [Ed. Thomas Van Raalte]
The Companion to Volume 7 is an expanded version of the Attribute
Summary from the previous edition of the XView Programming Manual,
together with other reference information, so that in practice you
have to buy both books.
O'Reilly also have a thinnish orange book on the differences between
X11R4 and RX115.
OLIT programmers will also want the Xt books - volumes 4 and 5.
There is a new big fat green Vol 5 updated for X11R5.
A journal, The X Resource, may also be of interest.
O'Reilly & Associates, 103 Morris Street, Suita A, Sebastopol, CA 95472
+1 707 829-0515, or, in the USA and Canada only, 1-800-998-9938
Fax: +1 707-829-0104.
Email nuts@ora.com or uunet!ora!nuts.
For other distributors: mail, FAX, or call +1 707-829-0515.
Some of the O'Reilly examples are available fro ftp from
export.lcs.mit.edu in the contrib/OReilly directory.
The System V Release 4 Documentation from Prentice Hall may also include
a section on OpenWindows.
David Miller describes programming with OLIT in his
`An OPEN LOOK At Unix' (M&T press).
Nabajyoti Brkakati gives an excellent introduction to X and to OLIT
programming, as well as setting up and using X and OpenWindows, in:
`Unix[R] Desktop Guide to OPEN LOOK'
SAMS, 1992 ISBN 0-672-30023-0
You can get the examples from this book as
export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/naba-olguide-examples.tar.Z
Also about using OLIT, and Xt in particular:
The X Window System: Programming and Applications with Xt,
OPEN LOOK Edition,
Doug Young and John Pew, Prentice Hall, 1992,
ISBN 0-13-982992-X
There are also HP Widgets and Motif (ugh) versions of this book.
The example source code in this book can be obtained by ftp from
export.lcs.mit.edu, file "contrib/young.pew.olit.Z".
There is an introduction to XView in
`Writing Applications For Sun Systems', Vol 1, `A Guide for
Macintosh(R) Programmers' (Sun Microsystems, pub. Addison Wesley)
To learn more about the NeWS and PostScript languages, see
The NeWS Book, Springer Verlag, 1989 (sadly, a little out of date)
PostScript Language Reference Manual, Second Edition,
Adobe Systems Inc., Addison Wesley, 1990 ["the Red Book"]
Note that OpenWindows 3 is a level 1 PostScript implementation,
with certain Level 2 features (such as Composite Fonts) to some
degree.
PostScript Language Tutorial and Cookbook,
Adobe Systems Inc., Addison Wesley, 1985 ["The blue book"]
There's at least one book on using Solaris (i.e. SunOS).
Sun also supplies a large amount of documentation with OpenWindows,
although you may have to order it separately. Here's what I have; they
are each a little over 21 cm square (wider than A4 paper), and vary from
about 1 cm to about 3cm thick. They say `User's Guide' or `Programmer's
Guide' on the front. The User manuals have a red stripe on the bottom,
and the Programmer ones have a green stripe.
800-6006-10 OpenWindows Version 3 Release Manual
800-6029-10 OpenWindows Version 3 Installation and Start-Up Guide
800-6231-10 OpenWindows Version 3 DeskSet Reference Guide
800-6618-10 OpenWindows Version 3 User's Guide
800-6323-10 Desktop Integration Guide [also available in bookstores?]
800-6027-10 Programmer's Guide
800-6005-10 OpenWindows Version 3 Reference Manual [the man pages]
800-6319-10 The NeWS Toolkit 3.0 Reference Manual
800-6736-10 NeWS 3.0 Programming Guide
800-6055-10 OLIT 3.0 Widget Set Reference Manual
800-6198-10 XView 3.0 Reference Manual: Converting SunView Applications
800-6854-10 F3 Font Format Specification [order separately]
There are also some other sets of documentation, including the TypeScaler
documentation from the OpenFonts group, for example. There doesn't seem
to be a complete list anywhere.
??????????? ToolTalk 1.0 Setup and Administration Guide (SunSoft, 1991)
800-6093-10 ToolTalk 1.0 Programmer's Guide (SunSoft, 1991)
There might be documentation about the Link Manager somewhere, too.
AT&T includes several large thorny bushes' worth of paper with OLIT.
Sun's AnswerBook CD/ROM contains a lot of the above documentation,
including some of the O'Reilly books (not the XView 3 Volume 7, though).
Volume 8 of the O'Reilly series is about X Administration, and mentions
OpenWindows, although it is primarily aimed at X11R5.
Several other books are in the works...
Subject: Getting this File, Revision History, Recent Changes
Mail lee@sq.com to ask for it. Douglas N. Arnold (dna@math.psu.edu)
keeps an up-to-date copy on ftp.math.psu.edu (currently 146.186.131.129)
in the file ~ftp/pub/FAQ/open-look.
The net.answers archives and servers may or may not know about this file,
since they've just changed hands and this file was previously in one
archive but not the other.
$Id: open-look.faq,v 1.48 93/05/09 18:03:13 lee Exp $
Acknowledgements:
Andrei Arkhipov <andr@elvis.sovusa.com> (Feb/binder patch)
Douglas N Arnold <dna@math.psu.edu> (Feb/various changes)
Ian Darwin <ian@sq.com>
Christopher Davis <ckd@eff.org>
Paul Eggert <eggert@bi.twinsun.com> (Feb/screenblank on Solaris 2.1)
R.Stewart Ellis <elliss@frith.egr.msu.edu> (Feb/-assert nodefinitions)
Jeff Fleck <jefff@meaddata.com> (Feb/the colormap stuff)
Rick Heli <Rick.Heli@Eng.Sun.CO> (Feb/including .signature)
Nicholas Hounsome <nh@cbnewsg.cb.att.com> (Feb/Xt/OLIT cc workaround)
Larry Matthias <matthias@artos.larc.nasa.gov> (Feb/NeWS colormap flashing)
John B. Melby <melby%yk.fujitsu.co.jp@fai.com> (Feb/South Paws)
Christian Sebeke <sebeke@frodo.lfi.uni-hannover.de> (Feb/Xt jumbo patch)
Kevin W. Thomas <kwthomas@nsslsun.nssl.uoknor.edu> (Mar/olvwm patches)
Larry W. Virden <lvirden@cas.org> (Mar/various comments)
And many others... You get deleted from this list after a while.
--
Liam Quin, Manager of Contracting, SoftQuad Inc, +1 416 239 4801 lee@sq.com
OPEN LOOK UI FAQ; Metafont list; HexSweeper NeWS game; lq-text text retrieval
| 5comp.windows.x |
Hi, everybody:
I guess my subject has said it all. It is getting boring
looking at those same old bmp files that came with Windows. So,
I am wondering if there is any body has some beautiful bmp file
I can share. Or maybe somebody can tell me some ftp site for
some bmp files, like some scenery files, some animals files,
etc.... I used to have some, unfortunately i delete them all.
Anyway could me give me some help, please???
thanks a lot!
john
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
Well, thanks largely to subscribers of this group, here's xrastool 1.0,
the animation package I started just over 3 weeks ago. A number of the
solutions provided through discussions here have been incorporated in
the code, so have a look! The full blurb has been posted to
comp.windows.x.announce.
This post is in two parts. To unpack the source code, extract the
articles into file1 and file2 (for example). Use a text editor to
remove leading and trailing text at the "---cut here---" markers
(including the markers themselves). Next type "cat file1 file2 >
file", then "uudecode file" and "zcat xrastool1.0.tar.Z | tar xvf -".
Read the README file for instructions on how to proceed from there.
Enjoy!
Derek
P.S. The source is also available for anon ftp from export.lcs.mit.edu
in the contrib/ directory. If there is enough demand, a static binary
will be provided for those without the XView libraries or include
files.
-----------------------------------------------------------
| Derek C. Richardson | Tel: (0223) 337548 x 37501 |
| Institute of Astronomy | Fax: (0223) 337523 |
| Cambridge, U.K. | |
| CB3 0HA | E-mail: dcr@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk |
-----------------------------------------------------------
---cut here---
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MZDR.-,>?HU:LY)AS?-+X4;B./$>'(\$QXG@DTY%1NIYH*<8 TQE+YV?2NS:&
---cut here---
| 5comp.windows.x |
In article <1993Apr14.185317.12231@sbcs.sunysb.edu> wynblatt@sbgrad5.cs.sunysb.edu (Michael Wynblatt) writes:
>
>Weird thing: Leading 20-4 going into the top of the ninth, Sparky
> used his ace closer, Henneman. The tigers have 8 relievers
> and at least 6 were rested/available. Does Sparky trust
> them that little ?
I think he just wanted to get Henneman some work, because the
Tigers had days off both the day before and the day after.
Jim
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
-----------------------------------------------------------
April 16, 1993
Washington, DC
COMPUTER PROFESSIONALS CALL FOR PUBLIC
DEBATE ON NEW GOVERNMENT ENCRYPTION INITIATIVE
Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR)
today called for the public disclosure of technical data
underlying the government's newly-announced "Public Encryption
Management" initiative. The new cryptography scheme was
announced today by the White House and the National Institute
for Standards and Technology (NIST), which will implement the
technical specifications of the plan. A NIST spokesman
acknowledged that the National Security Agency (NSA), the super-
secret military intelligence agency, had actually developed the
encryption technology around which the new initiative is built.
According to NIST, the technical specifications and the
Presidential directive establishing the plan are classified. To
open the initiative to public review and debate, CPSR today
filed a series of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests
with key agencies, including NSA, NIST, the National Security
Council and the FBI for information relating to the encryption
plan. The CPSR requests are in keeping with the spirit of the
Computer Security Act, which Congress passed in 1987 in order to
open the development of non-military computer security standards
to public scrutiny and to limit NSA's role in the creation of
such standards.
CPSR previously has questioned the role of NSA in
developing the so-called "digital signature standard" (DSS), a
communications authentication technology that NIST proposed for
government-wide use in 1991. After CPSR sued NIST in a FOIA
lawsuit last year, the civilian agency disclosed for the first
time that NSA had, in fact, developed that security standard.
NSA is due to file papers in federal court next week justifying
the classification of records concerning its creation of the
DSS.
David Sobel, CPSR Legal Counsel, called the
administration's apparent commitment to the privacy of
electronic communications, as reflected in today's official
statement, "a step in the right direction." But he questioned
the propriety of NSA's role in the process and the apparent
secrecy that has thus far shielded the development process from
public scrutiny. "At a time when we are moving towards the
development of a new information infrastructure, it is vital
that standards designed to protect personal privacy be
established openly and with full public participation. It is
not appropriate for NSA -- an agency with a long tradition of
secrecy and opposition to effective civilian cryptography -- to
play a leading role in the development process."
CPSR is a national public-interest alliance of computer
industry professionals dedicated to examining the impact of
technology on society. CPSR has 21 chapters in the U.S. and
maintains offices in Palo Alto, California, Cambridge,
Massachusetts and Washington, DC. For additional information on
CPSR, call (415) 322-3778 or e-mail <cpsr@csli.stanford.edu>.
| 11sci.crypt |
In article <oXZ12B1w164w@cellar.org>, craig@cellar.org (Saint Craig) writes:
> No anyone who is a "true" rider with the real riding attitude will offer a
> wave, weather they are on a Harley or on a Honda or some other bike, inless
> they have a serious case of my bike is better than your and you're too low
> to be acknowleged. This you'll find is the case with most of the harley
> riders out here where I am, however I still give them a wave, and ride
> secure in the knowlege that I'm a better persob than they are.
Huh?
- Roid
| 8rec.motorcycles |
In article <1993Apr21.171807.16785@bnr.ca> (Rashid) writes:
>In article <115694@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) wrote:
>> I think many reading this group would also benefit by knowing how
>> deviant the view _as I've articulated it above_ (which may not be
>> the true view of Khomeini) is from the basic principles of Islam.
>> So that the non-muslim readers of this group will see how far from
>> the simple basics of Islam such views are on the face of them. And
>> if they are _not_ in contradiction with the basics of Islam, how
>> subtle such issues are and how it seems sects exist in Islam while
>> they are explicitly proscribed by the Qur'an.
>Discussing it here is fine by me. Shall we start a new thread called,
>say, "Infallibility in Islam" and move the discussion there?
I think this should be illuminating to all. Let me make a first
suggestion. When Arabic words, especially technical ones, become of use
let us define them for those, especially atheists, to whom they may not be
terribly familiar. Please also note that though I did initially refer
to Khomeini as a heretic for what I understood to be a claim -- rejected
by you since -- of personal infallibility, I withdraw this as a basis
for such a statement. I conditionally retain this reference in regard
to Khomeini's advocacy of the thesis of the infallibility of the
so-called "Twelve Imams," which is in clear conflict with the Qur'an
in that it places the Twelve Imams in a category of behavior and example
higher than that of the Muhammad, in that the Qur'an shows that the
Prophet was clearly fallible, as well as (it appears, given your
abstruse theological statment regarding the "natures" of the Twelve
Imams) placing them in a different metaphysical category than the
remainder of humanity, with the possible exception of Muhammad,
something which verges on the sin of association.
>As salam a-laikum
Alaikum Wassalam,
Gregg
| 0alt.atheism |
: Robert G. Carpenter writes:
: >Hi Netters,
: >
: >I'm building a CAD package and need a 3D graphics library that can handle
: >some rudimentry tasks, such as hidden line removal, shading, animation, etc.
: >
: >Can you please offer some recommendations?
: >
: >I'll also need contact info (name, address, email...) if you can find it.
: >
: >Thanks
: >
: >(Please Post Your Responses, in case others have same need)
: >
: >Bob Carpenter
: >
The following is extracted from sumex-aim.stanford.edu. It should also be on
the mirrors. I think there is source for some applications that may have some
bearing on your project. Poke around the source directory. I've never used
this package, nor do I know anyone who did, but the price is right :-)
Hope this helps.
Cheinan
Abstracts of files as of Thu Apr 1 03:11:39 PST 1993
Directory: info-mac/source
#### BINHEX 3d-grafsys-121.hqx ****
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 93 14:13:07 +0100
From: Christian Steffen Ove Franz <cfranz@iiic.ethz.ch>
To: questions@mac.archive.umich.edu
Subject: 3d GrafSys 1.21 in incoming directory
A 3d GrafSys short description follows:
Programmers 3D GrafSys Vers 1.21 now available.
Version 1.21 is mainly a bugfix for THINK C users. THIS VERSION
NOW RUNS WITH THINK C, I PROMISE! The Docs now contain a chapter for
C programmers on how to use the GrafSys. If you have problems, feel free
to contact me.
The other change is that I removed the FastPerfTrig calls from
the FPU version to make it run faster.
Those of you who don't know what all this is about, read on.
********
Programmers 3D GrafSys -- What it is:
-------------------------------------
Didn't you always have this great game in mind where you needed some way of
drawing three-dimensional scenes?
Didn't you always want to write this program that visualized the structure
of three-dimensional molecules?
And didn't the task of writing your 3D conversions routines keep you from
actually doing it?
Well if the answer to any of the above questions is 'Yes, but what has it to
do with this package???' , read on.
GrafSys is a THINK Pascal/C library that provides you with simple routines
for building, saving, loading (as resources), and manipulating
(independent rotating around arbitrary achses, translating and scaling)
three dimensional objects. Objects, not just simple single-line drawings.
GrafSys supports full 3D clipping, animation and some (primitive) hidden-
line/hidden-surface drawing with simple commands from within YOUR PROGRAM.
GrafSys also supports full eye control with both perspective and parallel
projections (If you can't understand a word, don't worry, this is just showing
off for those who know about it. The docs that come with it will try to explain
what it all means later on).
GrafSys provides a powerful interface to supply your own drawing routines with
data so you can use GrafSys to do the 3D transformations and your own routines
to do the actual drawing. (Note that GrafSys also provides drawing routines so
you don't have to worry about that if you don't want to)
GrafSys 1.11 comes in two versions. One for the 881 and 020 or above
processors. The other version uses fixed-point arithmetic and runs on any Mac.
Both versions are *100% source compatibel*.
GrafSys comes with an extensive manual that teaches you the fundamentals of 3D
graphics and how to use the package.
If demand is big enough I will convert the GrafSys to an object-class library.
However, I feelt that the way it is implemented now makes it easier to use for
a lot more people than the select 'OOP-Guild'.
GrafSys is free for any non-commercial usage. Read the documentation enclosed.
Enjoy,
Christian Franz
| 1comp.graphics |
>I am looking for EISA or VESA local bus graphic cards that support at least
>1024x786x24 resolution. I know Matrox has one, but it is very
>expensive. All the other cards I know of, that support that
>resoultion, are striaght ISA.
What about the ELSA WINNER4000 (S3 928, Bt485, 4MB, EISA), or the
Metheus Premier-4VL (S3 928, Bt485, 4MB, ISA/VL) ?
>Also are there any X servers for a unix PC that support 24 bits?
As it just happens, SGCS has a Xserver (X386 1.4) that does
1024x768x24 on those cards. Please email to info@sgcs.com for more
details.
- Thomas
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Das Reh springt hoch, e-mail: roell@sgcs.com
das Reh springt weit, #include <sys/pizza.h>
was soll es tun, es hat ja Zeit ...
| 1comp.graphics |
I have a 24-pin printer which is an ALPs Allegro24. It's both a fast
printer with LQ and a very sophisticated design. It has a straight paper
path and the capability of auto-forwarding sheets to tear off and then back
(a big paper saver as you never have to waste sheets to get a current
print out). It can also handle single sheets without removing the formfeed
and has sophisticated preferences options (you can interactively program
all the preferences to control the printer and get printed feedback without
ever using a computer). You get prompts and menus to pick your current setup
and default set up. This was THE top of the line LQ dot matrix when I bought
it three years ago for $399. It is also Epson LQ2500 compatible (besides it's
own modes) and comes with IBM driver software (which I've never used since I
own an Amiga). Has a card slot for upgrading memory or fonts.
I'll let it go for $150 including shipping prepaid. COD orders must pay
all shipping and COD costs.
Adisak Pochanayon - 608-238-2463
-------
Also a light gun and UFORCE controller for Nintendo but with PD driver
software to use them on the Amiga. The light gun is fully remote (no wires).
Best offer over $75 ($30 less than my cost and they are both brand new).
---------------------------------- CUT HERE ----------------------------------
Jeez!!! It never fails, get in the tub and there's a rub at the lamp!
-- The Genie from Aladdin.
pochanay@cae.wisc.edu eddie (Adisak) Pochanayon
Check out all of SilverFox SoftWare's Releases.... your Amiga entertainment.
---------------------------------- CUT HERE ----------------------------------
| 6misc.forsale |
I have before me a pertinent report from the United States General
Accounting Office:
National Aero-Space Plane: Restructuring Future Research and Development
Efforts
December 1992
Report number GAO/NSIAD-93-71
In the back it lists the following related reports:
NASP: Key Issues Facing the Program (31 Mar 92) GAO/T-NSIAD-92-26
Aerospace Plane Technology: R&D Efforts in Japan and Australia
(4 Oct 91) GAO/NSIAD-92-5
Aerospace Plane Technology: R&D Efforts in Europe (25 July 91)
GAO/NSIAD-91-194
Aerospace Technology: Technical Data and Information on Foreign
Test Facilities (22 Jun 90) GAO/NSIAD-90-71FS
Investment in Foreign Aerospace Vehicle Research and Technological
Development Efforts (2 Aug 89) GAO/T-NSIAD-89-43
NASP: A Technology Development and Demonstration Program to Build
the X-30 (27 Apr 88) GAO/NSIAD-88-122
On the inside back cover, under "Ordering Information" it says
"The first copy of each GAO report is free. . . . Orders
may also be placed by calling (202)275-6241
"
Dani
--
Dani Eder/Meridian Investment Company/(205)464-2697(w)/232-7467(h)/
Rt.1, Box 188-2, Athens AL 35611/Location: 34deg 37' N 86deg 43' W +100m alt.
| 14sci.space |
bross@sandbanks.cosc.brocku.ca (Brian Ross) writes:
> In the world of the future, Bill Clinton will appoint Canadians to
> govern all American institutions (starting with the American health
> care system). We will be benevolent Canadian dictators.
With yet another tax being floated by the Clinton administration to
pay for new ``free'' social programs, I've really begun to suspect
that the Canadians, long resentful of their place in the American
shadow, brainwashed an American draft dodger who fled to Canada some
time between 1966 and 1968, tutored him in the ways of Canadian
socialism, awarded him with smokeless marijuana cigarettes when he got
the correct answers, then returned him to the states (under the
control of the domineering wife assigned to his case) to attain high
public office and destroy the evil individualistic and free market
forces in America, thus shaping America in the Canadian image.
Steven Smith
| 18talk.politics.misc |
It was great to hear that UMass is bringing back hockey! It reminded me that a
couple of years ago there was talk that both Bimidgi (sp?) and Mankato State
trying to upgrade their programs to Div. 1 status. I also seem to remember
that they had some trouble with new NCAA rule about just who was allowed to
compete at the Div. 1 level. Was that ever resolved? Also, I was just
wondering if there is ANY college hockey east of Colorado (Alaska excepted).
With the new popularity of hockey on the west coast, I would expect there to
be some interest building at the collegiate levels too. Anyone heard anything?
James Old, e-mail JOLD@vma.cc.nd.edu
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
In article <1993Apr21.024643.5135@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>The reason I'm unhappy with the length of games today is summed up above.
>For an extra 15 minutes/game (average) in the AL, and an extra 11 minutes
>(average) in the NL, I'm seeing fewer runs score.
>
>Now, what I think I *am* seeing is more pitches. More strikeouts (over
>1/game in the AL, over .6/game more in the NL), more walks (.2/game more in
Yep. And the Ks don't have to denote a slow game, either. Last night,
Sid Fernandez was mowing the Giants hitters down (14 Ks in 8 innings),
yet the first 7 1/2 innings of the game were quite brisk.
He also threw 119 pitches, leading me to believe it isn't just the
number of pitches that determines the length of a game, but the
behavior *between* pitches.
--
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Michael Zimmers | Voice: 408 996 1965 |
| SoftHelp -- Suppliers to Software Developers | Data: 408 996 1974 |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
The following used CD's are for sale. They are each $8 unless otherwise
marked. I will pay for the shipping and handling costs. If you are
interested in any just e-mail me at awakhras@phoenix.princeton.edu. At
that point we will figure out the payment and mailing procedure.
Artist Title
Robbie Robertson Storyville
Love and Rockets Love and Rockets
Jeff Lynne Armchair Theatre
Elvis Costello Mighty Like a Rose
Public Image LTD 9
Neneh Cherry Raw Like Sushi
Bobby Brown Don't Be Cruel
Depeche Mode Black Celebration
Traveling Wilburys Vol. 1
Bad Company 10 from 6
Soul II Soul Vol. II-1990 A New Decade
The Godfathers More Songs About Love and Hate
Paul McCartney Flowers in the Dirt
Simply Red Stars
Prince Graffitti Bridge
Amer Akhras
awakhras@phoenix.princeton.edu
| 6misc.forsale |
In article <1993Apr19.194525.3888@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov> bday@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Brian Day) writes:
>mcole@spock (COLE) writes:
>
>>I would like to experiment with the INTEL 8051 family. Does anyone out
>>there know of any good FTP sites that might have compiliers, assemblers,
>>etc.?
>
>Try lyman.pppl.gov -- /pub/8051
Great. This site is a complete shadow of the Signetics BBS 8051 directory.
Thanks Brian,
--
Mont Pierce
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ham Call: KM6WT Internet: mont@netcom.com |
| bands: 80/40/20/15/10/2 IBM vnet: mont@vnet.ibm.com |
| modes: cw,ssb,fm |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 12sci.electronics |
18669@bach.udel.edu (Steven R Hoskins) writes:
> ... I realize I am very ignorant about much of the Bible and
> quite possibly about what Christians should hold as true. This I am trying
> to rectify (by reading the Bible of course), but it would be helpful
> to also read a good interpretation/commentary on the Bible or other
> relevant aspects of the Christian faith. One of my questions I would
> like to ask is - Can anyone recommend a good reading list of theological
> works intended for a lay person?
I won't even recommend books from my congregation. What you ask sounds
attractive but it is dangerous. As a new Christian you don't want to be
contaminated with other people's interpretation. Steep your self in
scripture, and discuss with other christians. Read if your must but
remember that what other people write is their interpretation. God has
promised to give you light, so ask for it.
> I have another question I would like to ask. I am not yet affiliated
> with any one congregation. Aside from matters of taste, what criteria
> should one use in choosing a church? I don't really know the difference
> between the various Protestant denominations.
Don't wait too long before attaching yourself to church. Just remember to
always compare what they teach you with scripture like the Bereans did.
Darius
| 15soc.religion.christian |
Subject: options before back surgery for protruding disc at L4-L5
From: Alex Miller, amiller@almaden.ibm.com
Date: 13 Apr 93 18:30:42 GMT
In article <2241@coyote.UUCP> Alex Miller, amiller@almaden.ibm.com
writes:
>After two weeks of limping around with an acute pain in my low back
>and right leg, my osteopath sent me to get an MRI which revealed
>a protruding (and extruded) disc at L4-L5. I went to a neurosurgeon
>who prescribed prednisole (a steroidal anti-inflamitory) and bed
rest
>for several days. It's been nearly a week and overall I feel
>slightly worse - I take darvocet three times a day so I can
>deal with daily activities like preparing food and help me
>get to sleep.
>
>I'll see the neurosurgeon tomorrow and of course I'll be asking
>whether or not this rest is helpful or if surgery is the next
>step. What are my non-surgical options if my goal is to resume
>full activity, including competitive cycling. I should add this
>condition is, in my opinion, the result of commulative wear and
>tear - I've had chronic low-back pain for years - but I managed
You don't say whether or not you have any symptoms other than pain.
If you have numbness, weakness or bladder problems, for example,
these would suggest a need for surgery. If pain is your only symptom
you might do well to find a reputable, multi-disciplinary pain
clinic in your area. Chronic low back pain generally doesn't do well
with surgery, acute on chronic pain (as only symptom) doesn't fare
much better.
e correlation between MRI findings and symptoms is controversial.
Don Mackie - his opinions
UM will disavow...
| 13sci.med |
>In article <1993Apr22.101356.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> kwolfer@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>I for one am happy about the Ranger's hiring of Keenan. It's too bad that they
>
I agree that Keenan is an excellent choice. Did you see Mike
Lupica's column in Sunday's news? My sentiments exactly. I
think he just may be the one to instill some hunger and fire
into their hearts next season. Either that or he's going to
be kicking alot of butt!
>Reading through most of these hockey news I don't see many Ranger fans writing.
I'm here, but am new to this group and have been keeping fairly
quiet (you know, doing the "lurking" thing). I don't have a
sense how many Rangers fans there are on the list either. I
am a die-hard Ranger fan (I guess I have to be - I sat in the
Garden throughout the Penguins' - led by Mario's 5 goals - decimation
of them on 4/9), but am sick at the abundance of talent that has
been totally untapped, and the lack of heart displayed this
season.
>
>I have some final questions about the way the team was handled in that last
>dreadful stretch.
>
>1. Knowing they needed offensive help from the blueline, why didn't we see Mike
>Hurlbut, who played pretty well when he was called up when Leetch first went
>down?
>
Hurlbut was injured for quite a while. I'm not sure, but I
think he may have recovered in time for the playoff run, and
if so, like you, question why he wasn't used.
>
>>2. Why????!!!!! is Joe Kocur playing every night? He is not Bob Probert who is
>>tough but also can play.
>>
I believe Kocur was used, in many instances, for his intimidation
factor. Granted, he seemed to get an awful lot of ice time for
that reason alone, but you have to realize that when a team is
not doing any REAL physical intimidation (I'd like to have a nickel
for every time J.D. said 'They've got to take the body more'),
you've got to at least have some illusions ;-(
>3. How come Paul Broten is relegated to street clothes for the end of the
>season. At least he plays with some heart and character, draws penalties and
>plays 110% when he's on the ice. Was he in the doghouse for some reason?
I agree and I don't know.
>4. Joe Cirella?????!!!! Enough said!
>
Sorry, I don't agree with you here. I think Joey C. did a good
job filling in when he was asked to. I can't imagine that it's
easy going from near 0 ice time to being a full timer. I don't
seem to remember him turning the puck over at the blue line too
much, or failing to clear the zone. He worked hard, and at
least didn't make any rookie mistakes. As he said himself in an
interview, he can only give what he has. and he did.
>
>Ranger fans may be suffering but we're some of the most loyal, unlike Islander
>fans who only show up when the team wins.
>
Absolutely. I think attendance at the Garden was better on the
last day of the season, than any average night for the
Islanders.
>
>>fought series. Mario is amazing!
>
The man is awesome. In a way, I'm enjoying the playoffs more,
now that the Rangers aren't in them. I can really appreciate
all the glory Mario is getting without 'hating' him because he's
on the opposing team. He deserves it all, as far as I'm
concerned.
- Mary
===============================================================
Mary Blumenstock mblumens@itsmail1.hamilton.edu
Hamilton College
Clinton, N.Y. GO RANGERS!! (next year...)
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
In article <C63M1s.M86@news.Hawaii.Edu>, chen@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Hua Chen) writes:
> Is there anybody who knows the telephone number of Cirrus Logic Co.,
> maker of a graphic card? Please reply to chen@cfa.harvard.edu
> Thank you very much.
>
> Hua Chen
> Center for Astrophysics
>
BBS number
510-226-2365
Ron
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
In article <1993Apr5.173500.26383@ra.msstate.edu> js1@Isis.MsState.Edu (Jiann-ming Su) writes:
%I say buy out Henderson's contract and let him go bag groceries. Next
%season, you'll be able to sign him for nothing. That goes for any bitching
%ball player.
Stay in school. You have a lot to learn.
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
In article <C508BJ.6E2@imag.fr>, you write:
>
> hillman (hillman@plk.af.mil) wrote:
> : deathbird+@CMU.EDU (Donpaul C. Stephens)
> :
> : kind of slated wouldn't you say?) Who is going to throw all that to
the
> : side and get the Mac OS for 486???
Not Quite the point to be considdered here!
Fact: If/When Apple release system 7 (or what ever is current at the time
of release) then you will see shortly afterwards Apple no longer producing
Hardware...Look at Next with their NextStep486 to see what happens.
Who is going to pay Apples Prices when they can get the same thing cheaper
else where! (Heck we can get a Sun Workstation cheaper than a Quadra, and
infact we have a number of times!!!, it ALL comes down to $$$$)
> : If Apple released this before windows 3.0 was released I'd be behind
them,
> : they missed the boat. So why is Apple continued development. Will it
> : support the P5 to its fullest capabilities? Run faster than Windows?
It
> : must do something significantly better than Windows and OS2 to warrent
> : being released.
No the continued develeopment is because there is becomming less and less
profit in Hardware, So the Next Step (no pun intended...well sort of), is
to make the money in software (look at Microsoft if you think it can't
happen!), after all you can sell multiple pieces of software to ONE
hardware platform.
As you also said Windows is a nightmare for programmers, so will the
temptation to sell system 7 to a couple of MILLION dos users be too much
for Apple! (50 million copies @ $100 is SERIOUS money!).
--
==========================================================================
: Sir@office.acme.gen.nz :
: :
: Be thankfull that we dont get all the government we pay for! :
==========================================================================
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
In <1993Apr19.183437.28365@gallant.apple.com> Steve Bollinger <buzz@apple.com> writes:
>[...]
>Use the sound manager and work fine on all machines.
>[...]
>The more of the story is to developers: DON'T CHEAT!
>Really, I am absolutely, positively not allowed to do what I am about to
>do,
>but I'm going say it anyway.
>Stop cheating on sound!
>Really soon, you will be sorry, as even those without external speakers
>will be disappointed with your sound on future hardware. The grace period
>is about to end.
>The Sound Manager is understandable now, and works pretty well and will
>work
>even better soon, so use it.
Don't be silly.
Using the Sound Manager on a Quadra is very well, but using SM on
any of the low-end machines doesn't simply work for a decent action
game since it just steals too much time from the CPU. This is
a fact. By writing directly to the hardware on an SE, it is
possible to have 4 simultaneous channels of sampled sound (11kHz) for
a cost of approx. 8000 cycles. Exactly how would you do that using
the SM, pray tell?
The correct thing to do is to use the SM on the machines that can
carry that extra load using the SM means, and to write directly
to the sound hardware on the machines that can't. It's not the
politically correct thing, but from the developers' point of
view it is.
Christer Ericson --- Internet: christer@cs.umu.se --- tel: +46-90-166794
Department of Computer Science, University of Umea, S-90187 UMEA, SWEDEN
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
>>> On benzene and acetone.
Not only is benzene a carcinogen, it is adsorbed through the skin and cause
cumulative damage to the bone marrow which is essential to the production of
your blood cells. It is highly toxic. One exposure is unlikely to kill you,
but it will likely do hidden damage. Benzene is one compound that chemists
try like hell to avoid using!
Acetone is much less toxic, but is highly flammable and volatile.
It also dissolves lots of things so handle with great care!
--
Jonathan G. Harris
Department of Chemical Engineering, MIT Rm 66-450
25 Ames Street, Cambridge, MA 02139
harris@athena.mit.edu (617)253-5273 Fax 253-9695
| 12sci.electronics |
Are people here stupid or what??? It is a tie breaker, of cause they
have to have the same record. How can people be sooooo stuppid to put win as
first in the list for tie breaker??? If it is a tie breaker, how can there be
different record???? Man, I thought people in this net are good with hockey.
I might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same points
with different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people actually put
win as first in a tie breaker......
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
In rec.motorcycles klinger@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Jorg Klinger) writes:
;In <1993Apr15.192558.3314@icomsim.com> mmanning@icomsim.com (Michael Manning) writes:
;
;>Most people wave or return my wave when I'm on my Harley.
;>Other Harley riders seldom wave back to me when I'm on my
;>duck. Squids don't wave, or return waves ever, even to each
;>other, from what I can tell.
;
; When we take a hand off the bars we fall down!
The problem is that Squids and BadAssBikers can't recognize
each other's waves. When you're riding a cruiser, you "wave"
by lifting two or three fingers of the left hand, without
first removing that hand from the handlebar. When you're
riding a crotch rocket, you lower the left hand to about
ankle level, palm forward, and call that a wave.
Generic bike riders actually seem to raise the hand entirely
off the handlebar and wave it around, so it's easy to tell
when they're waving.
---
chris
| 8rec.motorcycles |
In article <1993Apr12.151718.8485@desire.wright.edu>, demon@desire.wright.edu (Not a Boomer) writes:
> Apple announced that it will start selling three new vesions of its
>Performa 400. The new machines will have built-in modems and bundled software.
>
> The new models will be the 405, 430 and 450.
>
> Prices are not set by Apple, but by the retailer. The prices of the
>new machines are expected to range from $1300-$1900.
What kind of post is this? If you have something substantial to tell the world,
then at least give us details! So what if they are coming out with new Macs,
they always do that... what's new about these models? Etc...
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu>, davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
|> I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
|> they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim. I was
|> worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim. I have
|> also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.
|>
|> I'm interestend in determining whether or not these things are true.
|> Has anyone out there with Geico made a claim? I'd be interested in
|> hearing whether or not you were satisfied with the service and whether
|> you then had trouble renewing your policy.
|>
|> I'm also interested in any good or bad stories about Liberty Mutual or
|> State Farm.
Stay away from GEICO.
A recent CAR & DRIVER issue has an article about GEICO giving free
laser guns to police departments to increase they're speed limit
enforcement. The article also said that if you get a speeding ticket
your premium will increase dramatically based on how much "over the
limit" you were. If I remember correctly, at "more than 20 over",
you'll get something like a 65% increase.
If you have a radar detector, you will be denied coverage or dropped
immediately.
One accident claim and you will be dropped.
After many years with GEICO, my father who had 0 tickets and had made
0 claims, had an accident and filed an $800 claim. He was dropped
immediately. Since then he has been with State Farm for years with
no complaints.
I have been with State Farm for about 20 years - no complaints.
TRAVIS
| 7rec.autos |
|> henrik@quayle.kpc.com writes:
|> The Armenians in Nagarno-Karabagh are simply DEFENDING their RIGHTS
|> to keep their homeland and it is the AZERIS that are INVADING their
|> territorium...
Homeland? First Nagarno-Karabagh was Armenians homeland today
Fizuli, Lacin and several villages (in Azerbadjan)
are their homeland. Can't you see the
the "Great Armenia" dream in this? With facist methods like
killing, raping and bombing villages. The last move was the
blast of a truck with 60 kurdish refugees, trying to
escape the from Lacin, a city that was "given" to the Kurds
by the Armenians.
|> However, I hope that the Armenians WILL force a TURKISH airplane
|> to LAND for purposes of SEARCHING for ARMS similar to the one
|> that happened last SUMMER. Turkey searched an AMERICAN plane
|> (carrying humanitarian aid) bound to ARMENIA.
|>
Don't speak about things you don't know: 8 American Cargo planes
were heading to Armenia. When the Turkish authorities
announced that they were going to search these cargo
planes 3 of these planes returned to it's base in Germany.
5 of these planes were searched in Turkey. The content of
of the other 3 planes? Not hard to guess, is it? It was sure not
humanitarian aid.....
Search Turkish planes? You don't know what you are talking about.
Turkey's government has announced that it's giving weapons
to Azerbadjan since Armenia started to attack Azerbadjan
it self, not the Karabag province. So why search a plane for weapons
since it's content is announced to be weapons?
Hilmi Eren
Dept. of Computer and Systems Sciences, Stockholm University
Sweden
Hilmi-er@dsv.su.se
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
In article <C5pGFu.IA4@dscomsa.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>views would be to recruit them as spooks. They can be guaranteed to give
>the government line when it counts. In US history it has been the
>socialists such as myself who have been persecuted.
And in Russia, capitalists were persecuted for trading goods on the
black market. And in the US, capitalist minded types are imprisoned and killed
for things such as selling drugs, guns, pornography, and other victimless
activities. It doesn't matter whether you are socialist or capitalist,
power and control are central to government. Since citizens can't be trusted to
run their own affairs, the government must watch them. (for their
own good of course. I mean, with strong cryptography, citizens might <gasp!>
start to hide things from the IRS, sell drugs/guns/pornography, and
that cannot be allowed!)
>trials. Ever seen Ed Meese pissed? I have, it was when he said that socialism
>and communism were the same thing and brought the house down with laughter.
>It took several minutes before we realised that he was serious.
Not very surprising to anyone who believes in "hands off" government. If
you believe that your private life (both social and financial) are none of
anyone else's business, the difference between socialism and communism is
like the difference between murder by lethal injection or by
chainsaw. The more centralized the economy is, the more potential
abuses for accumulation of information on individuals. If you think
credit companies are bad, ... Well, I'm sure a democratic socialist society
would vote for absolute privacy of all citizens -- NOT!
| 11sci.crypt |
In article <C5tI1C.9sy@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
caine@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lord Vader) writes:
>
>
>OK, I'm sure that this has been asked 100's of times before, but I
>have wondered since I heard it... Where the hell did the nickname
>of the "Habs" come from for the Montreal Canadiens?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Caine Schneider
The answer is in the FAQ for this group. nough said.
Laurie Marshall
Wayne State University
Detroit, Michigan
Go Wings!!!!!
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
Excerpts from netnews.comp.windows.x: 15-May-93 Re: COLORS and X windows
(A.. John Cwikla@morrison.wri (4620)
> The problem is that we need solutions for applications now. And although
> I would love to have most of the things mentioned here, somebody has to write
> it.
What I'd like to see is this scenario:
Each widget, view, whatever, describes it's colors via a palette.
Palettes can be shared and they only contain descriptive information.
They are not directly tied to the object that uses them. Palettes are
held in the server. A palette can accomadate, up to, the number of
hardware color cells of color descriptors.
When the input focus is in a particular widget, that widget has access
to all of the colors that are described in its associated palette. ALL
OTHER WIDGETS, TRANSIENTLY, GET THE CLOSEST APPROXIMATION THAT CAN BE
GENERATED BY A UNION OF THE COLORS FROM THE CURRENT PALETTE AND ANY FREE
COLORS THAT ARE LEFT OVER.
A widget specifies a color for imaging by providing an index (pixel)
into its associated palette.
The bold part above is hard and would need to be done in the server.
| 5comp.windows.x |
Mike Cobb (cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: Very true (length of time for discussions on creationism vs evolutionism).
: Atheists and Christians have been debating since ?? and still debate with
: unabated passion 8-).
Mike,
I've seen referrences to "Creation vs Evolution" several times in a.a
and I have question. Is either point of view derived from direct
observation; can either be scientific? I wonder if the whole
controversy is more concerned with the consequences of the "Truth"
rather than the truth itself.
Both sides seem to hold to a philosophical outcome, and I can't help
wondering which came first. As I've pointed out elsewhere, my view of
human nature makes me believe that there is no way of knowing
anyhthing objectively - all knowledge is inherently subjective. So, in
the context of a.a, would you take a stand based on what you actually
know to be true or on what you want to be true and how can you tell
the difference?
Bill
| 0alt.atheism |
In article <C5pxqs.LM5@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu>, bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill
Conner) says:
>
>dean.kaflowitz (decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com) wrote:
>
>: Now, what I am interested in is the original notion you were discussing
>: on moral free agency. That is, how can a god punish a person for
>: not believing in him when that person is only following his or her
>: nature and it is not possible for that person to deny what his or
>: her reason tells him or her, which is that there is no god?
>
>I think you're letting atheist mythology confuse you on the issue of
(WEBSTER: myth: "a traditional or legendary story...
...a belief...whose truth is accepted uncritically.")
How does that qualify?
Indeed, it's almost oxymoronic...a rather amusing instance.
I've found that most atheists hold almost no atheist-views as
"accepted uncritically," especially the few that are legend.
Many are trying to explain basic truths, as myths do, but
they don't meet the other criterions.
Also...
>Divine justice. According to the most fundamental doctrines of
>Christianity, When the first man sinned, he was at that time the
You accuse him of referencing mythology, then you procede to
launch your own xtian mythology. (This time meeting all the
requirements of myth.)
>salvation. The idea of punishment is based on the proposition that
>everyone knows (instinctively?) that God exists, is their creator and
Ah, but not everyone "knows" that god exists. So you have
a fallacy.
>There's nothing terribly difficult in all this and is well known to
>any reasonably Biblically literate Christian. The only controversy is
And that makes it true? Holding with the Bible rules out controversy?
Read the FAQ. If you've read it, you missed something, so re-read.
(Not a bad suggestion for anyone...I re-read it just before this.)
>with those who pretend not to know what is being said and what it
>means. When atheists claim that they do -not- know if God exists and
>don't know what He wants, they contradict the Bible which clearly says
>that -everyone- knows. The authority of the Bible is its claim to be
...should I repeat what I wrote above for the sake of getting
it across? You may trust the Bible, but your trusting it doesn't
make it any more credible to me.
If the Bible says that everyone knows, that's clearly reason
to doubt the Bible, because not everyone "knows" your alleged
god's alleged existance.
>refuted while the species-wide condemnation is justified. Those that
>claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God or that His will is
>unknown, must deliberately ignore the Bible; the ignorance itself is
>no excuse.
1) No, they don't have to ignore the Bible. The Bible is far
from universally accepted. The Bible is NOT a proof of god;
it is only a proof that some people have thought that there
was a god. (Or does it prove even that? They might have been
writing it as series of fiction short-stories. As in the
case of Dionetics.) Assuming the writers believed it, the
only thing it could possibly prove is that they believed it.
And that's ignoring the problem of whether or not all the
interpretations and Biblical-philosophers were correct.
2) There are people who have truly never heard of the Bible.
3) Again, read the FAQ.
>freedom. You are free to ignore God in the same way you are free to
>ignore gravity and the consequences are inevitable and well known
>in both cases. That an atheist can't accept the evidence means only
Bzzt...wrong answer!
Gravity is directly THERE. It doesn't stop exerting a direct and
rationally undeniable influence if you ignore it. God, on the
other hand, doesn't generally show up in the supermarket, except
on the tabloids. God doesn't exert a rationally undeniable influence.
Gravity is obvious; gods aren't.
>Secondly, human reason is very comforatble with the concept of God, so
>much so that it is, in itself, intrinsic to our nature. Human reason
>always comes back to the question of God, in every generation and in
No, human reason hasn't always come back to the existance of
"God"; it has usually come back to the existance of "god".
In other words, it doesn't generally come back to the xtian
god, it comes back to whether there is any god. And, in much
of oriental philosophic history, it generally doesn't pop up as
the idea of a god so much as the question of what natural forces
are and which ones are out there. From a world-wide view,
human nature just makes us wonder how the universe came to
be and/or what force(s) are currently in control. A natural
tendancy to believe in "God" only exists in religious wishful
thinking.
>I said all this to make the point that Christianity is eminently
>reasonable, that Divine justice is just and human nature is much
>different than what atheists think it is. Whether you agree or not
Xtianity is no more reasonable than most other religions, and
it's reasonableness certainly doesn't merit eminence.
Divine justice...well, it only seems just to those who already
believe in the divinity.
First, not all atheists believe the same things about human
nature. Second, whether most atheists are correct or not,
YOU certainly are not correct on human nature. You are, at
the least, basing your views on a completely eurocentric
approach. Try looking at the outside world as well when
you attempt to sum up all of humanity.
Andrew
| 0alt.atheism |
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
_____________________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release April 15, 1993
PRESS BRIEFING
BY GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS
The Briefing Room
1:04 P.M. EDT
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Good afternoon.
Q Could we do this on the lawn?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That would be nice. Let's go out
to the cherry blossoms. We'll do like the President.
Q Is the stimulus package dead?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely not.
Q Can you tell us more about the Dole talks? You
said it was a good visit, but no compromise.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes. The President had a good talk
with Senator Dole last night. I think that as we said before, there
were no specific compromises on either side, although it was a very
good discussion about the jobs package and about other issues as
well. As you know, the President first called Senator Dole I believe
Tuesday night to talk about the Russian aid package. They did not
speak -- Senator Dole called him back Wednesday morning -- when the
President was out. Instead he spoke with Tony Lake, and at the close
of that conversation, indicated that he wanted to speak to the
President about the jobs and stimulus package. They finally talked
about that yesterday afternoon.
At the close of that discussion they said that they
would have another talk last night, which they did, when the Senator
was up in New Hampshire. And although there were no specific
compromises made on either side, they did say that they would
continue to have some discussions. And that's where we are.
Q Well, who is giving in? Where is it standing --are
both making concessions?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know that it's at that
phase. No compromise has been made. As the President has said
consistently, he intends to come forward with an adjusted package.
He believes in the package, but he believes that if it's going to
take adjustments to get the minority to release it, he's willing to
make those adjustments.
Q On the subject of a VAT --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Oh, boy.
Q Can we stay on this for one more minute?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Sure.
Q We have a problem with the five minutes --
Q I know no decisions have been made, but what would
lead the health group to believe that a VAT might be necessary?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Sorry, Andrea, I'm not going to go
down that road. No decisions have been made. As the President said
this morning, a number of groups, a number of members of Congress, a
number of other organizations have recommended that this be looked
at. The working group is looking at it, but no decisions have been
made.
Q To follow, have they done that directly through
him? Have labor and business groups been in touch with the President
about it?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not to my knowledge, although
there's a lot of people who have public decisions in support of the
VAT. But the President has not made a decision.
Q At the meetings that he's had with his own task
force advisers, have they discussed the funding issue and what the
possible options would be?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think that that has been
presented for a decision, no.
Q Not for a decision, but has it been discussed as an
option?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, there are a lot of levels of
briefing. I do not believe that the VAT has been presented to the
President as, okay, this is something for you to decide on.
Q You're not saying he didn't know it was being
considered, though, are you?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, he said it's being considered.
Q He knew that.
Q But has he discussed that with his advisers?
That's what I'm asking.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President has said it's being
considered. I do not know what level of discussion there has been
over the VAT. It is something the working groups are looking at. I
don't even know that it's --
Q But he didn't say he was considering, did he, at
this stage?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, he is not. I think we're
getting into something of a metaphysical debate right here. What is
considered --
Q Well, he is the one who said, I haven't reviewed
it.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That is true. That is what I just
repeated.
Q George, is there any concern here that as a result
of the definite statement he made in February and the promise that if
it were to be considered he'd let us know, and having it trickle out
the way it did, that there may now be the development of a
credibility gap on this issue and others?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think so. I mean, it is
now public knowledge that this is being considered.
Q Is he or you at all embarrassed about the absolute
statements that were made from this platform to the effect that it
was off the table and was not being considered, and then to have it
come out not from you people, but --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, wait a second. It came out
from the administration. What are you talking about?
Q What I'm saying is, though, that the President said
he would let us know.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Right.
Q You people then said -- you said, I believe, that
it's not going to be on the program.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: On March 25th.
Q On March 25th.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Circumstances change.
Q Well, I understand. But we have to find that out
by rooting around in the fine print of an interview
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Rooting around -- I know you did do
a very good job there to read the USA Today article. But this is --
(laughter) -- the Deputy Director of the OMB and the Secretary of
Health and Human Services. I mean, that is common anytime you guys
write a story that has an unattributed quote from somebody in the
Clinton administration, the headline is -- I'll look at it right
here, and AP story -- "Clinton wants more money for spying."
Q What about his remark that if it were being
considered, he'd tell us about it?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And the administration's concerned,
and he'd let you know.
Q And did he?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes. Absolutely. What did he say
this morning?
Q It had to be dragged out of you here yesterday.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It didn't have to be dragged out of
me. We had the Deputy Director of the OMB, we had the Secretary of
Health of Human Services say it was being considered. That is his
administration. That is his administration policy.
Q Were these authorized trial balloons, or were they
orchestrated leaks? I mean, what was the --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They were asked questions, they
answered the questions.
Q You're saying here that it didn't have to be
dragged out, that you more or less made it clear yesterday you were
considering it.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely. I was very clear.
Painfully clear.
Q Was there a particular political strategy in making
it clear the administration is considering a new tax increase on tax
day?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, it was just this issue is being
considered. They were asked if it was being considered; they
answered that it was being considered.
Q George, The New York Times --
Q Why do it yesterday?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They were asked.
Q The New York Times reports today that Secretary
Reich and the chief economist at the Labor Department used apples and
oranges numbers in order to portray last month's unemployment figures
in a way that was supportive of the President's job stimulus bill,
but which turned out to be totally false.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if it was totally
false, but I think -- (laughter) -- the chief economist at the Labor
Department did grant that it was an inappropriate mixing, and they
say that.
Q The question is, is the President concerned about
behavior that amounts to corrupting government data? And what's he
doing about it, if so?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The chief economist has said that a
mistake was made, it won't happen again, and that's the end of the
matter.
Q Isn't that the same information that goes to the
President?
Q If I could go back to the stimulus package --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: There's two separate pieces of
information. I think that's where the confusion was.
Q When did you all first learn about this mistake
that was made?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I read the article this morning.
Q And as far as you know, is the President aware of
it?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think so.
Q And was he aware of it before he read about it in
The New York Times?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know. Not to my knowledge.
Q Did you ever hear about it before this morning?
Anything?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I didn't.
Q Wasn't the President given an erroneous spin on
this for his own purpose? For his speeches, for his arguments?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well again, I'm not sure. Both
statements are true. What the Labor Department has granted is that
mixing them in one sentence, essentially, was misleading. They said
it was a mistake. They said they wouldn't do it again.
Q Did they drop it -- is this something that you
choose to spin or make an issue of?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Whenever fewer people are out of
work, we're gratified. But that doesn't take away from the need to
get this jobs package going.
Q If I could go back to the stimulus package for a
minute. You said that the President plans to come forward with an
amendment. Is the timetable still what it was -- that the amendment
would be laid down on Monday and voted on on Tuesday, or did he, in
the conversation with Dole, talk about the possibility of putting
that off for a few more days to give more time for the discussion?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think at this point there's no
changes in the schedule at all. I don't know that they discussed the
timing like that.
Q Do you believe that you're closer or getting closer
this week than you were last week?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I believe that we're going
to pass a jobs package. The President is prepared to make
adjustments in order to get that to happen. I don't know where the
votes are on cloture at this particular time. I don't know what's
going to happen until we have a vote. But the President believes
deeply in this jobs package and wants to get it done.
Q Has there been any indication that this situation
has changed?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're going to continue to work on
it. We'll know when the votes are taken.
Q George, last week you said that there are -- or
various people in the administration were saying that you couldn't go
through Dole, you were going to have to try and go around him because
he was immovable on this subject of a compromise, or at least the
compromise he wanted was not anything like the one that you could
accept. This week you're talking to him. Is that because you've
realized that the peeling off effort wasn't going to work?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's because Senator Dole wanted
to talk to the President about the stimulus package.
Q He initiated the conversation?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q Secretary Reich this morning said that, in fact,
the President is not willing to compromise on this bill at all. You
say he's making --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know that that's exactly
what he said. I think he said he didn't have any indication that
there was any compromises yet or that there would be a compromise,
and the President doesn't want to compromise. And the President
doesn't want to compromise. But if he has to make adjustments to get
it through, he will.
Q Officials here yesterday said that Panetta was
working on a series of adjustments that might be made public before
the actual vote.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's possible.
Q Today?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not sure exactly when that will
happen, but I think that it's very possible that we'll come forward
with some sort of a different package, or Senate Democrats will come
forward with some sort of a different package in order to get it
passed.
Q As we understood his conversations with Dole, the
first one was some discussion of this and I'll get back to you
tonight with some details or some adjustments, or whatever the phrase
is. Did he offer him some details or some adjustments?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it's a question of how
detailed. I mean, I think they had a general discussion about the
package last night, subsequent to their conversation yesterday
afternoon. I believe that there will be follow-up discussions today
in the Senate, not necessarily between the President and Senator
Dole. And let me just reiterate, neither side has made specific
compromises at this date. When we have something we'll let you know.
And I'm not suggesting that Senator Dole has accepted anything that
we've talked about or that we've offered anything in a hard way.
Q What are the follow-up discussions if not the
President and Dole?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think Senator Mitchell is going
to talk to Senator Dole.
Q Is that a threat? (Laughter.)
Q Did the President say to Senator Dole, all right,
how about this number as an overall size, or did Dole say to the
President, I can go as high as this? Did they talk numbers?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think it was a negotiation
in that respect. It was more of a discussion about their positions.
Q Did they discuss actual numbers?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm just not sure. I know they
talked about the basic outlines of the packages. I think they talked
about the programs they cared about. I don't know if they got to the
level of this many x-billion dollars.
Q Does Dole have to sign off before there is a
package?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, of course not.
Q Did the White House have anything to do with the
protesters who showed up in New Hampshire today where Senator Dole
was speaking? Was that in any way organized by --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not to my knowledge, no.
Q And has the President been in touch with Senators
Kohl or Feingold?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think he's talked to them,
no.
Q George, is the President considering the more
palatable fact of having a national sales tax instead of having the
haves having to continuously pay for the have-nots? And is he going
to scrap his proposed tax on the privileged few, with the haves
having to pay for the have-nots?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President believes deeply that
the tax rates on upper income Americans, as he presented in his
budget, should go up. And I think for the second half of your
question, I'll refer you to my briefing from yesterday.
Q George, on the subject of accuracy in information,
you suggested the other day that the stimulus package included money
that would solve the water problem in Milwaukee. Apparently that is
not true. It's actually waste water money.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's waste water money for
Wisconsin, and some could go to Milwaukee.
Q But it would not affect the drinking water problem
because it's waste water money, right?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It would affect the water treatment
overall.
Q But the implication from your statement the other
day was that it would help fix this disease problem in Milwaukee now.
Would you agree that's not the case?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not sure of the specifics. I
know that it goes to the overall water treatment in Wisconsin.
Q A leftover question from this morning, which was,
when did the President find out that the task force was deliberating
on a VAT?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not sure exactly when. I just
don't know. I assume it came up over the last -- certainly between
the time that we had commented on in the past and two days ago.
Q So sometime since March 25th?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's right. I don't know
the exact date.
Q George, the President this morning mentioned that
some labor and business groups are for the VAT tax. Apparently, the
National Association of Manufacturers talks about perhaps the VAT tax
being okay if it replaces the BTU tax. So does the President feel
that perhaps this might be in place of some other tax he's proposed,
or is this totally in addition to the other taxes he's already
proposed?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think we've said all we have to
say about the VAT at this point. I mean, there's just no -- this is
being considered by the health care working groups, and that is all.
The President hasn't made any further decisions beyond that.
Q But it would be to finance health care, it wouldn't
be to replace some other tax that finances -- it wouldn't replace the
income tax, for instance?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: There have been no discussions on
that.
Q In terms of getting a VAT tax through Congress,
Senator Dole's press release today said VAT -- on tax day. Do you
think -- does it have a chance of getting through Congress? Would it
have a chance?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I have no idea.
Q Is that a consideration whether you all put it
forward?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That would become a consideration
if the President were to decide to do it. It's not in consideration
now.
Q You said at the beginning of the briefing that
circumstances had changed and that had caused the VAT to now be under
consideration.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, what the President referred to
this morning. These groups came forward and said this is something
that has to be considered.
Q Those are the circumstances that have changed?
That's the only difference between now and when he emphatically ruled
it out that groups have asked it to be considered?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's what he said.
Q Is that true?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q Was there, in fact, some understanding that sin
taxes would not produce enough money for the health care benefits?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not going to get into the
deliberations.
Q But, George --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. What the consideration is, as
the President said, groups came forward and said this is something
you ought to consider. The working groups are looking at it.
Q Is that the only thing that's changed since his
prior statement and your prior statement on the VAT?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q Can you explain how those groups -- how that
information got to him that groups wanted it? Was it just reading
the newspaper or did groups make presentations?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think the groups -- as you know,
the health care task force has met with dozens of groups.
Q But this is the President's knowledge that these
groups had come forward.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he was referring to what
was coming to the working groups. Obviously, there have also been
published positions in the newspapers.
Q Have certain groups briefed him on the group's
presentations to them?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if they've briefed him
-- I mean, how detailed the briefings have been. I know that the
working groups decided to look into this after being pressed by these
groups.
Q What kind of arguments did the groups make that
were persuasive enough that the President would change the position
that he had enunciated previously?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know, it's just they've had
longstanding positions that this would be a good way to finance
health care.
Q The President wasn't aware of those longstanding
positions?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He may have been at some level.
Obviously, he's been a governor for a long time and he knows the
basic arguments for and against a VAT tax.
Q What we're trying to figure out here -- you're
telling us that the only change, the only thing that affected this
change in the President's attitude toward the VAT between February
and now --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President's attitude hasn't
necessarily changed. I mean, he has not made a decision.
Q I know, but the President said that it was off the
table. So did you. And you're saying that the only thing that's
changed is the positions of these groups, except you're also
describing them as longstanding positions. I don't see the change.
If these groups haven't had any change in their position that's been
made to the President --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, they've made the
presentations to the health care task force.
Q There's no relationship at all between the fact
that sin taxes that he had said -- suggested in February that he
favored will not produce enough revenue to finance --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think he ever suggested
that they would produce all the revenue.
Q Well, he suggested that he thought that those were
appropriate ways to finance health care.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He did say that. I don't know that
he said anything to refute that.
Q But, in fact, has the task force discovered that
there wouldn't be enough revenue from those taxes to finance the kind
of core benefits --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I don't think that the task
force ever suggested that there would.
Q George, if he advocated a VAT tax, would that break
his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class to pay for his
programs?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I can't comment on a hypothetical
situation.
Q But does that promise -- would that promise not to
raise taxes on the middle class to pay for the programs prevent him
from seeking a VAT tax?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President has made no decisions
on the VAT tax. When he does, we'll tell you and we'll explain the
implications then.
Q Which specific groups can you cite -- business,
labor or otherwise -- whose recommendations to the health care task
force has prompted this consideration?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't have the specific. I just
don't have that.
Q George, can you tell us to what extend these other
alternatives, for instance, the employer tax or the sin taxes or
other financing options are also still on the table and what these
options are?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, as members of the task force
and representatives of the working groups have said, they are looking
at a wide variety of options. I think that Ira Magaziner said that
there are 20 different options under consideration. But I'm not
going to comment --
Q What's the scope --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm just not going to comment on
them, no.
Q What's the scope of the need? How much are you
talking about that has to be produced by one or a combination of the
--
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's what the health care task
force is looking at.
Q Since there's not going to be any briefing on the
Miyazawa visit, two questions: One, generally what does the
President hope to use that meeting for, but more specifically, is his
task complicated by the Japanese anger over the Vancouver note and
the remark about market access at the press conference?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The Vancouver note?
Q Does no mean yes.
Q Yes and no.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I don't know. I saw the
Prime Minister's press conference where he was asked the question
about that note and he gave a very gracious and complete answer when
he was asked the question. The questions of trade are something that
certainly will be discussed between the Prime Minister and the
President. There is obviously a trade imbalance between Japan and
the U.S. that we want to do something about.
Q Also in those comments the Prime Minister made he
suggested that the United States should come down heavy on him in
terms of trade. Are you going to oblige?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think the President will state
our views on trade very clearly and our views on the trade deficit
very clearly. I don't necessarily want to agree with your
characterization of the Prime Minister's comments.
Q that we need specific export targets, specific
numerical targets -- is that what he's going to discuss with
Miyazawa?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They're going to have a broad
discussion of a wide range of trade issues. I don't want to get into
those specifics until after the meeting.
Q Why?
Q That's the crux of the issue, right? Whether or
not -- does the President believe that without specific numerical
targets, it is really, as he said in his press conference, sort of
hopeless that this is going to change very much?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President believes that we must
have pressure on Japan to turn the trade imbalance around. I do not
want to get into the specifics of how that would be done.
Q But does the President believe that their stimulus
package announced yesterday will rectify the imbalance?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think, first, the President wants
to get a full briefing on the stimulus package from Prime Minister
Miyazawa himself, and then he'll make the comment on it.
Q How about the Russian aid package? There seems to
be some confusion about how the U.S. views that, Secretary
Christopher saying -- or Bentsen saying the Japanese may need to do
more, the Japanese saying that that's not what they heard?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, we're going to continue to
work with all our allies in the G-7, and we're going to continue to
press for help for Russian reform, Russian democratic reform. And I
think that, so far, we had a very good announcement out of Tokyo and
we're going to continue to work with our allies for bilateral
packages.
Q Do you think the Japanese need to do more?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're going to continue to work
with all our allies to do as much as we can.
Q Secretary Christopher was asked today on the Today
Show this morning what he thought of Margaret Thatcher's comments on
the Bosnia policy. And he said, "It's a rather emotional response."
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Over an emotional issue.
Q Right -- to an emotional problem. Does the White
House condone that kind of remark?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that Secretary
Christopher's remarks speaks for itself. The President believes also
that this is a deeply troubling situation that we're trying to find
answers for.
Q But that specific -- "rather emotional response" --
specific term?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, it speaks for itself.
Q In connection with that, doesn't it seem that with
the numbers of people who are being killed at this very moment, is it
good American policy to put off some decisions that might be made now
to help Boris Yeltsin win a referendum?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: For example?
Q To take stronger action, to take military action --
air strikes, anything that can be done?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President believes that what
must be done now is to push harder for sanctions. He is also -- as
you know, the administration has been discussing lifting the arms
embargo. He believes those are the appropriate ways to increase
pressure at this time.
Q What is your response to the critics who would say
that the U.S. is now stymied by trying to help Boris Yeltsin retain
the presidency?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They're wrong. We're pressing hard
for the Serbs to come to the negotiating table. We're pressing hard
for increased sanctions, and we're talking to our allies about the
arms embargo.
Q You were putting great store in Vance and Owen
getting people to agree to that. Now, Vance and Owen have both said
that military force to some extent would be acceptable. Does that
change your thinking?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Clearly, we're going to listen to
whatever people who have put so much time into a situation have to
say. But at this point, the President is moving forward on sanctions
and talking about the arms embargo.
Q A follow-up on a Dee Dee comment this morning. She
said she would be able to provide some administration officials who
could document the effect the sanctions are having in Bosnia. Are
you going to be able to do that, or do you have anything --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think that's what she said.
Q That's exactly what she said.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think that's true. But
what she said -- we would look into the situation of what kind of
evidence can be provided in Bosnia. Obviously, if there are
connections between the Bosnian Serbs and the Serbs in Belgrade and
we are tightening the screws on the Serbs in Belgrade, that will have
an effect over time. I do not know day by day, minute by minute,
what kind of help is being given between the two and what the exact
effect has been. But, clearly, we are slowing the shipment of goods
into Belgrade. We are having an effect on the Serbs there. What
kind of effect that will eventually have on the Bosnian Serbs I don't
know. But one thing I would say is if it were having no effect at
all, I don't know why they'd be fighting it so much.
Q Are the First Lady's tax returns going to be
released?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think there's a joint tax return.
And it will be probably later today.
Q Is the President considering signing an executive
order banning discrimination against homosexuals in the federal work
force as part of the gay rights march here next week?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think there's any proposal
for that at this time, not that I know of.
Q It's something that the President promised during
the campaign that he would do.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I have not seen any -- I don't
think it's anything that's on his plate right now.
Q Is he meeting with gay rights leaders at any point
on this issue?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know about on this issue.
I assume that he'll meet with representatives of the gay and lesbian
community sometime soon, as he meets with representatives of lots of
different groups and communities.
Q Do you know if that's scheduled --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's probably going to be tomorrow.
Q Probably going to be tomorrow? (Laughter.)
Q It's a good thing you asked.
Q Who's probably going to be there? (Laughter.)
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know.
Q How long --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know. That's all I know.
Q Do you know if it's at 3:00 p.m. tomorrow?
(Laughter.)
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know what time it is. I
don't even know for sure if it's going to be tomorrow.
Q Environmental groups have asked him to make a major
speech next week of some kind. Is that going to happen, do you know?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if they've asked, but
I think the President has always planned, as he did last year, to
give a speech on Earth Day and I expect that he will. If it's not
exactly on Earth Day, it might be a day before or something like
that.
Q Is he planning to sign or announce the signing of
the biodiversity treaty in connection with Earth Day?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I don't know the specific
timing of something like that, but it's certainly something under
discussion and something we've been working on.
Q Campaign finance reform?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're working on it.
Q Do you think it will be next week?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm just not sure.
Q The biodiversity treaty is something you're working
on? I missed the question.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, something we're working on.
He asked if it was ready to be signed, and I said I didn't know
anything about that but it's something we've certainly been working
on.
Q Do you know what organizations might be represented
in this meeting with the gay and lesbian groups?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't.
Q Do you know if he is going to reconsider being out
of town on the day of the march?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He's got to be at the Senate
meeting in Jamestown, and I believe he's also going to be giving a
speech to the American Association of Newspaper Publishers in Boston
on Sunday, as he did last year.
Q Would you have told us if she had not pressed you
on the question?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: On what?
Q On the gays.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: When we went through the
President's schedule for the day, certainly.
Q? George, what day is the publisher's speech? Is
that Sunday?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it's a Sunday.
Q And Saturday he'll be in Jamestown?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q So you're just going to be in Jamestown for one
day?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, I'm not sure. I don't know how
long the Senate thing goes. It might go overnight. I just don't
know.
Q You would have made the gay meeting public, right?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm certain if we had the meeting
-- I don't know about open to the press, but we would have told you
about it.
Q I mean, because it is, as far as I can tell, the
first time in history a President has met in the Oval Office with --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I didn't say it was going to be in
the Oval Office. (Laughter.) But I didn't -- I'm not say that it's
not, but I didn't say that it was. (Laughter.)
Q at the White House in the Bush administration
gay officials were invited to a bill signing ceremony and the White
House had to repudiate having done that. So I just wanted to make
sure --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, the President wouldn't do
anything like that.
Q Certainly not.
Q What marching orders did the President give to
General Vessey?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They had a very good discussion for
about half an hour today. He wanted -- the most important thing was
he had a full accounting for American POWs and MIAs. He will
obviously look into the circumstances surrounding this new document.
The President stressed that he wanted the fullest possible accounting
and said that only when we have that can we even consider any changes
in our policy towards Vietnam. He'll be looking at Vietnam's
response to the questions raised by the document and he'll also look
into investigations on discrepancy cases, increased efforts on
remains, implementing trilateral investigations -- and access to
military archives.
And Ambassador Toon also briefed the President on the
activities of the joint commission and on the document.
Q Vietnam says it's a fake. What is the DOD analysis
at this stage?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's not completed yet, and it's
also the first thing that General Vessey will bring up with the
Vietnamese.
Q A number of Defense officials have been saying that
they think that the 600 or so prisoners referred to are, in fact,
non-Americans that the Vietnamese had captured who they referred to
as Americans from time to time. Do people --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We don't have any final
determination. We're going to wait for the complete review; when we
have it, we'll make a judgment.
Q I know you don't have any final determination, but
given all of the intense public interest in this, do you think that
that's a likely possibility?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I just don't want to characterize
it in any way until the review is complete.
Q George, was there a topic scheduled for the speech
in Boston?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No.
Q Is the President going to have a press conference
tomorrow with Miyazawa?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think so, but I'm not positive.
Yes, I expect, yes.
Q Was Toon in with Vessey?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q He was in on the meeting?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q What was the question?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Was Ambassador Toon in with Vessey,
and the answer is yes.
Q Do you have any response to The Wall Street Journal
report this morning the President's distressed about some of his
press clippings and that perhaps he's distressed with you about that?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. Well, I do have a response. I
think the article was highly misleading to the extent that it implied
that the President has had restricted access to the press. I would
point out that he's answered 358 questions on 77 occasions, more than
any of his predecessors. I would also point out it also --
Q How many questions?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Three hundred fifty-eight, on 77
occasions.
Q How many were while he was jogging?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, no, that's actually a very
good question, Andrea. And I would point out further that the
article also implied that these questions were only answered at
tightly controlled photo opportunities, which is just patently false.
He's had 13 press conferences in either the East Room, the Oval
Office or the Roosevelt Room or the Briefing Room, in addition to
questions taken at photo opportunities, and that is only the --
Q Oval Office press conference -- when was that?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He's answered questions in the --
East Room. He's had five in the East Room, he's had one in the Oval
Office, he's had one in the Rose Garden, he's had one or two in the
Roosevelt Room. And this is just to the White House, Washington
Press Corps. In addition to that, he's had 17 interviews with local
television anchors. He's met with the editorial board of The
Portland Oregonian. He's had an hour-long interview with Dan Rather.
He's had interviews with local press from California, Florida and
Connecticut --
Q Can you address the question of the attitude? The
article implies that he doesn't --
Q Why doesn't he like us? (Laughter.)
Q Did you really get blamed for that Post story?
Q The story is that you -- are you held responsible
for it.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think I'm going to comment
about this.
Q Are you denying that the President has shown
displeasure publicly?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I am not commenting on the
discussions between the President and myself.
Q Did the President write that letter to Chris
Webber?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: What?
Q The letter to the University of Michigan basketball
player?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Oh, yes.
Q That is an authentic letter?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q Since the President first talked about the VAT in
February, he said at the time that he thought there probably should
be exceptions made in basic necessities such as food and clothing.
Does he still hold that position given the impact it could have?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I just can't comment on a
proposal he hasn't made.
Q George, does the President have some agenda for
this meeting with the gay leaders tomorrow?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I think it will just a
general meeting on the wide range of issues that they care about
including AIDS and other issues -- civil rights.
Q The military issue?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm certain it will come up.
Q Is he using this event to name the AIDS --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think so.
Q George, what specifically is the President doing to
prepare for tomorrow's meeting with the Prime Minister Miyazawa?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He's had briefing memos. He's had
general discussions with members of the Treasury Department, the
Trade Representative and others.
Q report yet?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if he has the report
referred to in The Times, but Ambassador Kantor was here to brief him
today.
Q He was?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q Does he intend to use any of these instances that
--
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I don't know that the
report's been presented. But obviously, the President will press
hard in any case where he thinks that a violation has occurred.
Q In terms of the Wall Street Journal, the thrust was
that there's a real schism here -- a hostility. Do you think he
feels that way?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not at all. As I said on the
record in the article, I think the President likes reporters. Again,
I think that the thrust of the article was still misleading. The
thrust of the article was that in some way, some attitude which the
President may or may not have is affecting access when, in fact, he
has the most open, accessible administration than have any in recent
history.
Q Can we come up to your office? (Laughter.)
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: If you're invited.
THE PRESS: Thank you.
END 1:34 P.M. EDT
#57-04/15
| 18talk.politics.misc |
In <1qjahh$mrs@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer)
writes:
>In article <pww-140493214334@spac-at1-59.rice.edu> pww@spacsun.rice.edu
(Peter Walker) writes:
>#In article <1qie61$fkt@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank
>#O'Dwyer) wrote:
>#> Objective morality is morality built from objective values.
>#
>#But where do those objective values come from? How can we measure them?
>#What mediated thair interaction with the real world, a moralon? Or a scalar
>#valuino field?
>Science ("the real world") has its basis in values, not the other way round,
>as you would wish it. If there is no such thing as objective value, then
>science can not objectively be said to be more useful than a kick in the head.
>Simple theories with accurate predictions could not objectively be said
>to be more useful than a set of tarot cards. You like those conclusions?
>I don't.
>#And how do we know they exist in the first place?
>One assumes objective reality, one doesn't know it.
>--
>Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That'
>odwyer@sse.ie from "Hens", by Evelyn Conlon
How do we measure truth, beauty, goodness, love, friendship, trust, honesty,
etc.? If things have no basis in objective fact then aren't we limited in what
we know to be true? Can't we say that we can examples or instances of reason,
but cannot measure reason, or is that semantics?
MAC
--
****************************************************************
Michael A. Cobb
"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois
class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana
-Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu
With new taxes and spending cuts we'll still have 310 billion dollar deficits.
| 0alt.atheism |
In article <1993Apr17.022222.28105@news.cs.brandeis.edu> st923336@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>It seems that conservatives are putting a lot of effort into
>showing up the 10% figure, but that really doesn't make a
>difference. Like I said, who cares how many there are? Would
>the fact that they're only 1% of the population justify
>discrimination against them? I don't think so.
Uh, well, Golly Gee Whiz. Let me see, when the new President, as his first
big "policy act" tries to force homosexuals (acceptance thereof) on the
military, despite polls showing a consistent 75%+ against it, and the
minority is only 1%, well, gee, I sure think that is newsworthy.
Tells you something about the fascist politics being practiced ....
--
There are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of
environmental disaster. Weird, eh?
These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em! (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...)
| 18talk.politics.misc |
In article <1993Apr5.203212.28284@erenj.com> srfergu@rufus.erenj.com (Scott Ferguson) writes:
>In article <1993Apr3.152922.12050@iscsvax.uni.edu>, harter5255@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>|> Fellow netters,
>|>
>|> Is anybody awake out there? When someone posted a message telling people to
>|> stop posting computer ads to the misc.forsale group, he got about thirty
>|> response here, not to mention the rash of E-Mail I'm sure he received. Yet,
>|> another person posts a message with the subject line "blow me" and an even
>|> worse text, and only 3 or 4 people have the guts to say anything. The majority
>
>Not to mention the thread about selling someone's wife. I am a guy, therefore
>not overly bummed by it, but a little common sense would dictate that this
>is offensive to many women, and not really necessary.
>
Good point, but I was just thinking.. I wanted to sell my HP28sx
calculator here in this newsgroup... It is called a calculator, but really
it is a computer, albeit a small one, but it does function as one... How
come car adds are acceptable? They cant run without computers nowadays....
Where does one draw the line? Accept it, live with it, and if you care to,
avoid it....
jonathan
--
I have lots of common sense...
I just choose to ignore it.... Calvin
..jonathan Sawitsky 'some random wierdo' martimer@wpi.wpi.edu...
| 6misc.forsale |
I am in need of the Driver for the Bernoulli Cartridge on a DataFrame
XP60+B. The hard disk on the system got fried and I haven't been able to
locate the original disks. If anyone has it or know where I can get this
please let me know via e-mail.
Thanks in advance.
Wayne Lyle
--
Wayne J. Lyle
Dilworth, Paxson, Kalish & Kauffman
Philadelphia, PA 19109
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
Hello world,
I'm attempting to write an 8051 simulator on an IBM PC for teaching
purposes, so that first-year elec-eng students can 'see' the workings
of the microcontroller as it performs operations - logical ands, for
example, being shown on a bit-by-bit basis (1 AND 1 = 1) so that the
students can see that it's not really a mystical process, but totally
logical, for example. Every instruction should show some 'working',
and not just alter register/memory/port contents.
Does anyone know of any freely-available example simulation code,
in Pascal or Modula-2, that would show me where I'm going wrong
in writing my simulator? [I'm using Ayala's -The 8051 Microcontroller-
as a reference - the simulator supplied with the package is overkill
for simple teaching purposes, I feel, and there's no source code to help
you roll your own.]
Please email me if you can help, or if you know of somewhere more
appropriate I should be posting this - I rarely scan these groups.
Thanks,
Lloyd Wood
L.H.Wood@lut.ac.uk
| 3comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware |
In article <C5uA7r.DAD@da_vinci.it.uswc.uswest.com>, pprun@august.it.uswc.uswest.com writes:
>
>
> I have just one thing to say about this: WRITE YOUR CONGRESSPERSON!
> The FBI and BATF storm troopers must not be allowed to get away with
> this. Demand a full investigation of the Waco survivor's story of
> the lantern being knocked over by the tank. We can't bring anybody
> back from the dead, but we may be able to send a few of them to
> political hell.
I heard over NPR yesterday morning that Arlan Specter, Senator from
Pennsylvania, has already called for a Congressional investigation.
The problem is that Specter was one of the key government attorneys several
years ago who did what he could to coverup facts in the assassinations
of JFK and others. That is to say, the Chief Fox wants to check out
the hen house. Writing your representatives is a great idea. When
you do ask that they keep Specter and his cronies far away from
any investigation.
>
> Would someone please post the generic addresses for Congress and
> Senate so that we can all write letters?
--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Joe Gaut | In the super-state, it really does not
<f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> | matter at all what actually happened.
Red-neck and proud of it. | Truth is what the government chooses to
| tell you. Justice is what it wants to happen.
Jim Garrison, New Orleans, La.
| 16talk.politics.guns |
In article AA04287@neko.CSS.GOV, nancie@neko.CSS.GOV (Nancie P. Marin) writes:
>I am trying to use XCopyPlane to copy a single plane
>from a depth-8 pixmap to a depth-1 pixmap. Everytime I
>try this, I see absolutely nothing displayed. I know there
>is data in the depth-8 pixmap becuase I have checked by doing
>an XCopyArea to the screen.
The code fragment looks reasonable, but is your logic valid?
Just because something appears in an 8 bit deep pixmap doesn't
mean every bit plane contains data. Did you try each plane?
---
Ken Lee, klee@synoptics.com
| 5comp.windows.x |
In article <C5qIwz.DJM@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> shz@mare.att.com (Keeper of the 'Tude) writes:
>
>The only consolation was that she had trouble scraping together the $35
>while $500 is not quite one week's beer money for me...
>
>- Roid
Well know I know how you can afford a Harley.
--
Keith Schauer Texas Instruments Plain O, Texas
80 CB900 Custom
DoD #0901 In an insane society, the sane man must appear insane.
AMA My company disavows any knowledge of my actions.
| 8rec.motorcycles |
As quoted from <C5J5IM.3C9@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> by rats@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Morris the Cat):
>
> | Firearms tend to fall into this low dollar/pound area.
> | It would not be economic to smuggle them in. All production
> | would have to be local. There are not all that many people
> | who have both the skill AND motivation to assemble worthwhile
> | firearms from scratch. High-ranking crime figures could
> | obtain imported Uzis and such, but the average person, and
> | average thug, would be lucky to get a zip-gun - and would
> | pay through the nose for it.
>
> This is not borne out of reality; the old Soviet Union had a very
> serious domestic handgun and submachinegun trade, guns that were
> of commercial grade because they were produced in honest-to-goodness
> machineshops. Why would all production have to be local; don't we
> have a road system that is the envy of the world?
>
If anybody wanted proof of the nonsense of the "you can't build guns" claim,
they need look no farther than the Philippines. Amateur gunsmiths there
regularly produce everything from .45 automatics to full auto shotguns. Now
if this guy wants to claim that the Philippines is either technologically
superior to the US or that their transportation is better than ours, all I
can say is that he's living in a fantasy world.
--
===================================================================
"You're like a bunch of over-educated, New York jewish ACLU lawyers
fighting to eliminate school prayer from the public schools in
Arkansas" - Holly Silva
| 16talk.politics.guns |
Jim and Andy both have it incorrect I believe:
The *facts* are what is there, the processes that exist in the
present or the physical evidence of the processes having occured
in the past. These *facts* exist with or without a theory.
The *theory* tries and explains the *facts* and how they relate
to the rest of the physical universe in a manner that is both
coherent and useful, that it can be used to make predictions.
The *facts* of gravity, evolution, electromagnetic radiation,
relativity, atoms will exist and behave in the way in which they
behave regardless of whether we have a theory to try and explain
how they interact... or even why.
A theory never really becomes a fact... but a theory can predict
the existence of a previously unknown fact, and if we find this
fact as the theory predicted we say the *theory* is *supported*
by the *facts*. A theory is a mental construct, a speculation,
a model. If it is a good model, it may be useful.
In science a theory is something that is supported by the
evidence, considerable evidence, sometimes *all* of the evidence.
A *hypothesis* is a new fledgling theory because there is not
yet enough evidence to support it. When a new hypothesis
is proposed to replace an existing theory, it must explain
*all* of the facts that the current theory explains and at least
some of the facts that the current theory could not and/or
predict new facts.
It is so simple.... I'm surprised that this subject gets
beat to death about once a month. A quick glance in a dictionary
would clear up 99% of the confusion and bandwidth in this
newsgroup. Then we could talk about really important things
like, why do men have nipples?
-David Utidjian-
utidjian@remarque.berkeley.edu
-
| 19talk.religion.misc |
In article <1r0tvhINNh3s@ctron-news.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>In article <C5rusq.M6M@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, azoghlin@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Very Old Freshman (VOF)) writes:
>>Critisism is too easy. What solutions do people have that would have been
>>better than what the FBI had been doing for the last few months?
>
>For starters, they could have gone on waiting and negotiating. The Davidians
>weren't going anywhere, and their supplies had to be limited. Large, perhaps,
>but limited. If they had simply fired the compound by themselves without
>gov't tanks smashing down their walls, then at least the gov't would not be
>guilty of having _again_ used an inappropriate level of force, and would have
>been able to use the meantime to continue to pressure and negotiate. No, they
>would not have looked good on the news in six months or a year. But they sure
>as hell don't look very good now.
True. Today's Boston Globe interviewed a former Unification Church
leader who is now a consultant on cults. He said the FBI's approach
was totally wrong. He said they should have tried to break down the
BD's loyalty to Koresh through psychological means. Koresh's whole
theology was based on an approaching confrontation with the forces
of evil in the world and a seige mentality based on this. The Feds
played into his hands **PERFECTLY**. By surrounding the compound
with tanks and playing loud rock music and glaring lights at them
they strongly reinforced Koresh's message that the outside world was
evil and threatening. He said instead they should have set up
a picnic atmosphere, and acted inviting and friendly. If they
broadcast anything over PA systems it should have been loving
relatives reflecting on pleasant events from the cult members'
childhoods. The idea is to make the outside world and surrender
seem like a pleasant, desirable alternative. Interesting comments.
---peter
| 18talk.politics.misc |
fbrown@seaway.ssd.kodak.com (Frank Brown 726-0415) writes:
>This is the AP story from Fri morning.
>
>As the walls came tumbling down and tear gas filled the air, cult leader
>David Koresh sprang into action. He left his third-floor bedroom and began
>looking around the house, making sure women and children were secure and
>checking that everyone had their gas masks on properly. Within hours, the
>compound became an inferno. Nine Branch Davidians excaped.
> This is their story, gleaned from lawyers who spoke with six of them
>who are jailed on charges that include conspiracy and murder. That day the
>six said a portable radio offered the only contact with the outside world
>since Koresh's right-hand man, Steve Schneider, ripped out the compounds's
>phone line after FBI agents called before dawn Monday saying this was the
>cults last chance: Come out or prepare to get forced out.
Aw, gee, and whose fault is THAT?
> They kept their word. By dawn, tanks were battering the Mount Carmel
>compound, punching for hours to creat holes for tear gas to enter. The BD
>meanwhile proceeded with their daily routines. Strapped into gas masks, the
>women did laundry. Others read Bibles in their rooms. The 17 children, all
>under 10, remained by their mothers' sides. Still, it was hard to ignore
>what was happening around them. Each time a tank rammed the
>poorly-constructed building it shook violently. Cult members dodges
>falling gypsum wallboard and doors.
Dear, dear. They could have COME OUT.
>Hundreds of gas canisters hurled in from the armored vehicles were filling
>the air with noxious fumes. The flying canisters were more frightening than
>the tanks. At least one man was hit in the face.
Dear, dear. They could have COME OUT.
The gas began filling the air,
>driven by heavy gusts of wind coming through windows and the holes the tanks
>made.
It couldn't have gotten too heavy with all that wind blowing through.
Scattered throughout the house, the cult members made no efforts to
>gather. Then the FBI sent in its biggest weapon -- a massive armored vehicle
>headed for a chamber, lined with cinder blocks, where authorities hoped to
>find Koresh and Schneider and fire tear gas directly at them.
> Here the cult members' story diverges from the government's version. The
>FBI says cult members set fires in three places. But each of the six cult
>members, in separate discussions with lawyers, consistently gave versions
>at odds with the FBI's account. They say the tank flattened a barrel of
>propane, spilling its contents. And as the tank thundered through the house,
>it tipped over lit lanterns, spitting flames that ignited the propane and
>other flammables. The home of used lumber, plywood, and wallboard tacked
>together with tar paper was vulnerable. The building erupted. Nine BD's
>escaped jumping through windows and dashing through other openings. Others
>died groping in the blackness.
Sad, but they COULD HAVE COME OUT.
--
| The Koresh cult standoff is over ... may his victims Recquiescat in Pace |
| |
| (the above is a net.moment of silence) |
Daniel A. Hartung -- dhartung@chinet.chinet.com -- Ask me about Rotaract
| 16talk.politics.guns |
I have stated before that I do not consider myself an atheist, but
definitely do not believe in the christian god. The recent discussion
about atheists and hell, combined with a post to another group (to the
effect of 'you will all go to hell') has me interested in the consensus
as to how a god might judge men. As a catholic, I was told that a jew,
buddhist, etc. might go to heaven, but obviously some people do not
believe this. Even more see atheists and pagans (I assume I would be
lumped into this category) to be hellbound. I know you believe only
god can judge, and I do not ask you to, just for your opinions.
Thanks,
-Tim
| 15soc.religion.christian |
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Laser printed copies on high-quality paper available upon request.
Contact Vicki Burns via:
E-mail: tg2n@unix.andrew.cmu.edu
Telephone: (216) 493-6303
| 6misc.forsale |
In article <1993Apr5.160550.7592@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
|
|I think this would be a great way to build it, but unfortunately
|current spending rules don't permit it to be workable. For this to
|work it would be necessary for the government to guarantee a certain
|minimum amount of business in order to sufficiently reduce the risk
|enough to make this attractive to a private firm. Since they
|generally can't allocate money except one year at a time, the
|government can't provide such a tenant guarantee.
Fred.
Try reading a bit. THe government does lots of multi year
contracts with Penalty for cancellation clauses. They just like to be
damn sure they know what they are doing before they sign a multi year
contract. THe reason they aren't cutting defense spending as much
as they would like is the Reagan administration signed enough
Multi year contracts, that it's now cheaper to just finish them out.
Look at SSF. THis years funding is 2.2 Billion, 1.8 of which will
cover penalty clauses, due to the re-design.
pat
| 14sci.space |
In article <wstuartj.735273842@lucky.ecn.purdue.edu>
wstuartj@lucky.ecn.purdue.edu (W Stuart Jones) writes:
> I want to go from 512K to 1M VRAM on my Quadra 800. How many 512K SIMMS
> do I
> need to buy? Is the current 512K soldered on the board or do I need to take
> out the current VRAM before I add more?
You need to add two 256K VRAM SIMMs; 512K VRAM SIMMs will not work in any
of the Quadra or Centris machines. There is already 512K of VRAM soldered
to the logic board. You add the two 256K SIMMs to this to give you a
total of 1 MB.
- Dale Adams
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
In article <1r3pbu$k35@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@east.sun.com writes:
>
>Driving While Impared. It allows for prosecution of drivers under the
>influence of a variety of drugs.
>
It's a shame there's no law against Driving While Stupid. After a little
while it would prevent all kinds of accidents.
Dean
--
| Dean Cookson / dcookson@mitre.org / 617 271-2714 | DoD #207 AMA #573534 |
| The MITRE Corp. Burlington Rd., Bedford, Ma. 01730 | KotNML / KotB |
| "The road is my shepherd and I shall not stop" | '92 VFR750F |
| -Sam Eliott, Road Hogs MTV 1993 | '88 Bianchi Limited |
| 8rec.motorcycles |
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