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In article <1993Apr25.182253.1449@Virginia.EDU> ab4z@Virginia.EDU ("Andi Beyer") writes:
> I don't know where you guys are from but in America
>such attempts to curtail someones first amendment rights are
>not appreciated. Here, we let everyone speak their mind
>regardless of how we feel about it. Take your fascistic
>repressive ideals back to where you came from.
Hey tough guy, freedom necessitates responsibility, and
no freedom is absolute.
BTW, to anyone who defends Arafat, read on:
"Open fire on the new Jewish immigrants, be they from the Soviet
Union, Ethiopia or anywhere else....I give you my instructions to
use violence against the immigrants. I willjail anyone who
refuses to do this."
Yassir Arafat, Al-Muharar, 4/10/90
At least he's not racist!
Just anti-Jewish
Pete
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
In article <0010580B.vmcbrt@diablo.UUCP> diablo.UUCP!cboesel (Charles Boesel) writes:
>I've been trying to figure out a way to get Adobe Illustrator
>to auto-trace >exactly< what I see on my screen. But it misses
>the edges of templates by as many as 6 pixels or more - resulting in images
>that are useless - I need exact tracing, not approximate.
>
>I've tried adjusting the freehand tolerances as well as autotrace
>tolerances but it doesn't help. Any suggestions?
>
>--
>charles boesel @ diablo creative | If Pro = for and Con = against
>cboesel@diablo.uu.holonet.net | Then what's the opposite of Progress?
>+1.510.980.1958(pager) | What else, Congress.
I've had exactly the same problems in Aldus Freehand. I think autotracing
is one of those "features" that barely works, but everybody feels compelled
to throw it in because the other guys are doing it. :)
--
David Farley The University of Chicago Library
312 702-3426 1100 East 57th Street, JRL-210
dgf1@midway.uchicago.edu Chicago, Illinois 60637
| 1comp.graphics |
David_Anthony_Guevara@cup.portal.com writes:
>Sorry if this is a FAQ. I don't normally read comp.sys.mac.hardware.
>I am purchasing a couple of Centris 650's. I configured the systems
>as follows:
> Eight (8) Mb RAM
> Ethernet
> 1 Mb VRAM
> Math CoProcessor option
>My purchasing agent told me about the math coprocessor option and sent
>me the Apple summary documentation to prove it. I ordered the coprocessor
>option, but I'm really not sure that we needed it. I thought the '040 chip
>had a math coprocessor built into it. Has Apple had a math coprocessor chip
>architectured to keep up with the speed of the '040 chip in the Centris 650?
>I am concerned that I may have set up a hardware bottleneck.
Apple has really confused people with this whole thing. I think
we'll be answering this question for about the next year or so. There is
no "option" to get an FPU on a C650. What you have is a choice of CPUs:
there is the 68LC040 that does not have an integrated FPU like the full
'040 and is only present in the base 4/80 model of the C650 (AppleUSA).
And there is the full '040 which you get when you order anything other
than the base 4/80 configuration. Therefore, since you have ordered one
of the 8MB versions with on-board Ethernet models you will not be
getting the LC040. But even if you wanted to have the LC040 you wouldn't
be able to order a C650 with 8MB RAM, on-board Ethernet and an LC040.
It's not an "option."
Also, a note to people out there that have 4/80 C650s and C610s
thinking that there is an optional FPU, the '040 class chip cannot
recognize an external FPU, so there is no socket on the motherboard for
a FPU chip and you cannot go out and purchase an FPU on a PDS card or
something like that. The only way to get an FPU in these machines is to
replace the LC040 with a full '040. And if you have a C610, you will not
need to worry about a heat sink if you do replace the LC040 with the
full '040, but if you have a 4/80 C650 you do need to have a heat sink.
-Hades
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
In article <1993Apr21.160620.3396@cabell.vcu.edu>, his3rrb@cabell.vcu.edu (Robert R. Bower) writes...
>
>Didn't McDonald's sell copies of "Dances with Wovies" for $7 not too
>long ago?
>
>They were also selling "Babes in Toyland" (the SCOTT BAIO version!)
>and something even more forgettable.
>
>Just think: video drive-thru........
>
>
>"I'll take a McRib, a McChicken, and a copy of Debbie Does McDallas
>to go"
>
>"Do you want fries and napkins with that?"
This makes perfect sense if you think about it.
Cheap food and cheap movies on the cheapest format. You feel full, but
the "nutritional quality" just ain't there. :-)
Feast a little...buy Beta!
>
>
>
>--Bob (his3rrb@caball.vcu.edu)
>"After this post, I'm really going to start studying.......really..."
Greg
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ED-Beta: Simply THE BEST!
"ED Beta is simply the best consumer videotape format available."
--VIDEO Magazine, Nov. 1992, page 30.
"Manufacturers may have a point when they perceive the U.S. consumer
electronics market as unsophisticated."
--VIDEOMAKER, March 1993, page88
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 6misc.forsale |
>If anyone has any information about the upcoming new computers
>(Cyclone and Tempest), I am in need of some info. Anything would be
>greatly appreciated.
>-Shawn
>breedsa@wkuvx1.bitnet
According to MacWeek of 2-22-93:
The Cyclone will come in the same metal minitower case as the Quadra
800, while the Tempest will share the low-slung case of the Centris
610. Apple will offer a miniature video camera that can be mounted
above the user's monitor or moved about on the end of its cable to take
pictures of objects or documents. Taking advantage of the 32-bit
digital signal processor (DSP) built into the systems' logic boards,
the camera will be able to put an image measuring 360 by 288 pixels,
with 256 gray levels, on the screen.
Users will be able to install supplementary lenses that can record
detail as fine as the wire bonds on an integrated circuit. The camera
is expected to cost between $150 and $250.
The systems will ship with all the software needed to put Apple's
Casper voice-recognition technology to work; users apparently will have
to purchase an operational high-fidelity microphone.
The two models will talk as well as listen. A new system facility
called the Speech Manager will convert text strings sent by
applications to phonemes and then pass them to a speech synthesizer.
The Cyclone will include a 40MHz '040, three NuBus slots and support
for up to 128MB of RAM. The Tempest will use a 25MHz LC040, lacking an
FPU, and hold up to 68MB of RAM; it will have a single slot that will
require a NuBus adapter and have room for only 7-inch NuBus cards.
Users will be able to update the Tempest's process but not the
Cyclone's.
For more get the 02.22.93 issue of MacWeek.
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
In article <8846@blue.cis.pitt.edu> joslin@pogo.isp.pitt.edu (David Joslin) writes:
}m23364@mwunix.mitre.org (James Meritt) writes:
}>}(a) out of context;
}>Must have missed when you said this about these other "promises of god" that we keep
}>getting subjected to. Could you please explain why I am wrong and they are OK?
}>Or an acknowledgement of public hypocrisy. Both or neither.
}
}So, according to you, Jim, the only way to criticize one person for
}taking a quote out of context, without being a hypocrite, is to post a
}response to *every* person on t.r.m who takes a quote out of context?
Did I either ask or assert that? Or is this your misaimed telepathy at work again?
}>BTW to David Josli: I'm still waiting for either your public
}>acknowledgement of your
}>telepathy and precognition (are you a witch?) or an appology and retraction.
}
}Can you wait without whining? To pass the time, maybe you should go
}back and read the portions of my article that you so conveniently
}deleted in your reply. You'll find most of your answers there.
Nope: In particular:
>once he realized that he had
Example of telepathy?
>responding Jim's threa
What threat. Produce it.
>Jim again, still mystified
More telepathy? Or maybe just empathic telepathy, capable of determining emotional states.
>Jim, trying to
More telepathy. How do you know "trying"?!?!?
>Jim, preparing to
Precognition? Substantiate.
All this taken from your Message-ID: <8257@blue.cis.pitt.edu>.
| 19talk.religion.misc |
1991 Toyota Camry for sale:
Deluxe package
5 speed
grey
power windows
power door locks
AM/FM cassette
power steering
power brakes
70K highway miles
Excellent condition
$9500 Rob Fusi
rwf2@lehigh.edu
(609) 397-2147 after 7pm E-mail me for more info...
(914) 335-6984 day (until 5)
Ask for Bob Fusi
--
| 7rec.autos |
In article <C5JoBH.7zt@apollo.hp.com> goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writes:
>In article <1993Apr14.122758.11467@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jlinder@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jeffrey S Linder) writes:
>>In article <C5FJsL.6Is@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM> mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.C
>>OM (Mark Wilson) writes:
>>>On the news last night Clinton was bashing the republicans for stonewalling
>>>his so called stimulus package.
>>>It seems that one small item within this package was going to pay for free
>>>immunizations for poor kids.
>>
>>Immunizations for children in this country are already free if you care to
>>go have it done. The problem is not the cost, it is the irresponible parents
>>who are to stupid or to lazy to have it done.
>
> In case you haven't noticed, Clintonites are pushing a universal health
> care ACCESS program. "Access" here means that folks who do not give
> a damn about immunizing their children will have health care services
> delivered to their doorsteps.
I've read about more than a few of these programs that ran into
problems in convincing parents to get their children immunized even
when they were delivered to their doorstep. (I don't know, maybe
that sheet they have to be informed of about possible risks, side-
effects, and bad reactions scares them.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Veal Univ. of Tenn. Div. of Cont. Education Info. Services Group
PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu - "I still remember the way you laughed, the day
your pushed me down the elevator shaft; I'm beginning to think you don't
love me anymore." - "Weird Al"
| 18talk.politics.misc |
Does anybody out there have one of those food dehydrators I've been seeing
all over late-night TV recently? I was wondering if they use forced air, heat,
or both. If there's heat involved, anybody know what temperature they run at?
My wife would like one and I'm not inclined to pay >$100.00 for a box, a fan
and a heater. Seems to me you should be able to throw a dehydrator together
for just a few bucks. Heck, the technology is only what? 1,000 years old?
John
| 12sci.electronics |
In article <C5Myzn.puE@austin.ibm.com>, lance@hartmann.austin.ibm.com (Lance Hartmann) writes:
|> In article <1qmrdd$70h@umcc.umcc.umich.edu> jon@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (Jon Zeeff) writes:
|> >I'd like to add a second S3 based video card to my system. Does anyone
|> >know of a company that sells a card that can coexist with another one?
|> >All I really need is color text on one monitor and fast color graphics
|> >on the other.
|> >
|> >Probably just a configurable address would do it.
|> >
|>
|> For what it's worth (I haven't confirmed it), a Diamond tech-rep told
|> me that ALL S3-based video cards use port addresses 0x2E0 and 0x2E8.
|> If this is true, it appears that you canNOT use more than one S3 card
|> in your system.
|>
Actually there is an S3-based card on the market that supports
multiple adapters in one system. Unfortunately, It is VL-Bus
only (They may have an ISA version by now...?) from a company
called Metheus. The address and phone number is:
Metheus Corp
OGC Science Park
1600 NW Compton Dr.
Beaverton, OR 97006-6905
(503)-690-1550
Be aware, this is a very high-end card, capable of 4MB of VRAM,
so it does not come CHEAP. But, I have personally seen TWO of
these boards running a dual screen Windows 3.1.
|> Lance Hartmann (lance%hartmann.austin.ibm.com@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com)
|> Yes, that IS a '%' (percent sign) in my network address.
|> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> All statements, comments, opinions, etc. herein reflect those of the author
|> and shall NOT be misconstrued as those of IBM or anyone else for that matter.
--
Mark Hall
Intergraph Corporation
Huntsville, AL
mhall@habu.b11.ingr.com
(205) 730-6145
| 3comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware |
For Sale:
Brand new, shrinkwrapped
HARVARD GRAPHICS FOR WINDOWS
List Price: $500
Cheapest pince in Computer Shopper (mail order): $315
My Price: $250
This is really a slick package, but I won it in a bike race so I
can't return it for credit. My dilemma is your fire sale.
--
** Peter Tapscott, Xerox - Palo Alto Research Center
** Internet: tapscott.adoc@xerox.com XNS Net: Tapscott:PARC:Xerox
** 415 813-6885
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
In article <1rgolaINNqjf@tamsun.tamu.edu> dlb5404@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:
>I just called Texas' legislative bill tracking service and found out
>that HB 1776 (Concealed Carry) is scheduled for a floor vote TODAY!
>Let those phone calls roll in.
Well, I don't normally like to quote myself, but I just got some
additional information. I called my state rep (to express my support),
and the person there informed me that it's actually just a second
reading of the bill (three are required) for further consideration.
I'm not 100% sure what *that* means, and I'm also not sure why
there's a discrepancy between what the two offices are telling me.
Still researching....
Daryl
Daryl Biberdorf N5GJM d-biberdorf@tamu.edu
+ Sola Gratia + Sola Fide + Sola Scriptura
| 16talk.politics.guns |
Hello all,
You, the Net, are my last resort, or I'll just change my job :-)
This might be a FAQ (e.g. mixing controllers) but haven't seen any.
Sys: 486/33, AMI BIOS, and your run-of-the mill multi-I/O card with
serials/paral/floppies and
- IDE controller "clone" Gw2760-EX
there are no jumpers affecting the HD or ctrller :-(
- Quantum ProDrive LPS (3" 105M type 47: 755cyl, 16hds, 17spt).
Pb: I want to bring in this (2nd hand, neat price):
- Maxtor XT-B380E (~330M, <15ms, BIOS type 1, ctrller manages
the real geom: 1630cyl, 8hds, 52spt)
- Western Digital WD1007V-SE1 ESDI ctrller: no floppies.
(jumpers set IRQ 14/15, hw port addr 1F0/170,
and BIOS addr CC00/C800, and other floppy/format stuff)
Goal: have the WD ESDI as a secondary/controller and have both disks
simultaneously working. Being able to boot from the ESDI too would be
a nice bonus but is not expected.
Ultimate goal: have room for Linux et al.
Ex of scheme I have in mind: boot from IDE (HD or floppy) and mount
the ESDI as root. Not booting from ESDI, or even from HD, is acceptable.
I have tried numerous (all!!) combinations to no avail. They work alone,
or can coexist witout hang-ups but can't access the ESDI or the IDE,
depending on setup/jumpers.
Useful suggestions might be:
- How do I tell the BIOS setup about two ctrllers (I guess the 2nd HD
is expected to hang off the same ctrller as the 1st).
- Do I need some driver to make it work?
- --- " --- some new BIOS/chip for any of these cards?
- do I have to buy another controller to make them HDs happy? IDE
is cheaper; ESDI is hard to find and rather costly. I'm not
rich or I wouldnt' try to scavenge around, so soft slns are preferred.
- adapters of some sort; I can hold a soldering iron, and can change
a chip or put a jumper!
Also useful:
- BBS or Hot-line of Western Digital.
- ftp archives with relevant info.
- expert stores in Toronto, Ontario area (that would be a miracle! haven't
seen any really knowledgeable ppl in a while)
- any hints into inner workings of the system ...
- anything else that helped you in similar situations (prayers :-) )
Direct or posted replies are ok.
Many thanks,
Cat.
--
////// /// // / / / / / / / / / / /
Catalin Ivan - email: ivan@Iro.UMontreal.CA - tel:(416) 324.8704
Human-Computer INTERACTION Humain-Machine
Universite de Montreal - Informatique et Recherche Operationelle
| 3comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware |
Does anyone know where I can find a code which would take concave
polygons and break them up into a set of convex polygons?
Thanks,
Kevin
sahr@piglet.uccs.edu
| 1comp.graphics |
In article 28782@athos.rutgers.edu, revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille) writes:
>Just an observation- although the bodily assumption has no basis in
>the Bible, Carl Jung declared it to be one of the most important pronouncements
>of the church in recent years, in that it implied the inclusion of the
>feminine into the Godhead.
What did Jung mean by a "Godhead?"
| 15soc.religion.christian |
In article <1993May15.030210.4755@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_shererrg@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>After hearing endless debate (READ: name-calling) over which os is better, dos
>and windows or OS/2 and finally having enought resourses to play with a couple
>of different operating systems, I have decided to put the two products to a
>head to head test, as so many fellow newsposters have suggested. I have,
>however, no desire whatsoever to use a version of os/2 which wont REALLY
>do what it says (i.e. run windows apps) OS/2 2.0-2.1 will not run windows
>apps in 386 enhansed mode, something that most larger windows apps require, but
>OS/2 2.2, which is supposed to be in beta test, is supposed to. I have heard
>that os/2 2.2 beta is available via ftp, and I was wondering if anyone knew
>where to obtain a copy. I would appreciate any information, as I would like,
>once and for all, to establish for myself which is the best os for my needs.
I don't think the question is:
"will OS/2 X.X run Windows Y.Y apps now?"
A more important question is:
"will subsequent OS/2 versions continue to run apps
from subsequent Windows versions in the future?"
Can it keep up? Will a future OS/2 3.0 run Windows 4 apps?
OLE2 is very complex and is the sign of things to come.
After this fall, I believe IBM no longer has any rights to
view Microsoft code. After that, the only way to maintain
some sort of compatibility is to reverse-engineer. Would
you want to reverse-engineer an OLE2 application?
--
John A. Grant jagrant@emr1.emr.ca
Airborne Geophysics
Geological Survey of Canada, Ottawa
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
I am trying to write an image display program that uses
the MIT shared memory extension. The shared memory segment
gets allocated and attached to the process with no problem.
But the program crashes at the first call to XShmPutImage,
with the following message:
X Error of failed request: BadShmSeg (invalid shared segment parameter)
Major opcode of failed request: 133 (MIT-SHM)
Minor opcode of failed request: 3 (X_ShmPutImage)
Segment id in failed request 0x0
Serial number of failed request: 741
Current serial number in output stream: 742
Like I said, I did error checking on all the calls to shmget
and shmat that are necessary to create the shared memory
segment, as well as checking XShmAttach. There are no
problems.
If anybody has had the same problem or has used MIT-SHM without
having the same problem, please let me know.
By the way, I am running OpenWindows 3.0 on a Sun Sparc2.
Thanks in advance--
John C.
| 5comp.windows.x |
In article <1r477q$1vk@sbctri.sbc.com>, tph@susie.sbc.com (Timothy P. Henrion) writes:
> In article <1993Apr21.093914.1@woods.ulowell.edu> cotera@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
>>I assume you have evidence that he was responsible for the deaths?
>
> Only my common sense. The fire was caused by either Koresh and his
> followers or by the FBI/ATF/CIA/KGB/and maybe the Harper Valley PTA. Since
> you are throwing around the evidence arguement, I'll throw it back. Can
> you prove any government agency did it? (Please don't resort to "they
> covered it up so that proves they did it" or any wild theories about how
> the government agencies intentionally started the fire. The key words
> are proof and evidence.)
> proves they did it"
No, which is why I want an investigation.
> Please explain how Koresh was defending himself from those children who
> burned.
Who ever said he was? What is obvious is that he was defending himself, and his
followers, from the government. Whether you think he was right or wrong in
this is another question. If he was right, then he had the moral right to kill
those kgBATF agents.
--Ray Cote
There's no government like no government.
| 19talk.religion.misc |
In article <tcora-210493093955@b329-gator-3.pica.army.mil>, tcora@pica.army.mil (Tom Coradeschi) writes:
|> jearls@tekig6.PEN.TEK.COM (Jeffrey David Earls) wrote:
|> >
|> > ba7116326@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg writes:
|> > >hello there
|> > >can anyone who has handson experience on riding the Yamaha v-max, pls kindly
|> > >comment on its handling .
|> >
|> >
|> > Some guy came to the OMRRA race school last weekend with number plates
|> > on his V-Max. He didn't get more than 2 practice laps in before he pushed
|> > the frame too hard and it drove him into the guard rail on the back
|> > straight.
|> >
|> > BTW: The rider was conscious and semi-coherent when the ambulance
|> > carted him off. That's all I know.
|>
|> I hate to pick on someone who may have been seriously injured (let's hope
|> not), but: semi-coherent sounds like a good description of someone who
|> shows up at the track w/ a VMax in the first place:-{
what does that make me for showing up with an old interceptor with worse
brakes and handling (due to bent frame) than a VMAX? and i didn't even...
uh.... well, i was more than semi-coherent when the ambulance.... uh....
nevermind.
axel
:)
| 8rec.motorcycles |
Hi,
Thought I'd add something to the conversation.
My girlfriend used to work in a lab studying different natural carcinogens.
She mentioned once about the cancerous effect of barbecued food.
Basically, she said that if you eat barbecued foods with strawberries
(a natural carcinogen) the slight carcinogenic properties of both
cancel out each other.
--
Jeff Poupore
jtpoupor@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca
--
Jeff Poupore
jtpoupor@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca
| 13sci.med |
I asked a question a week or so ago about getting more res. on my monitor. I have a Magnavox MagnaScan/17 and am wondering what video cards it supports. ALso, does anybody have Magnavox's EMail ID (if there is one) or maybe a phone number? Please reply by email as I don't read much news.
Thanks,
Steve
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven D Seeger dark1@netcom.com~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"String, he's going to blow us out of the sky!"
"Then why don't you hang your flabby behind out the window and BLOW him out of
the sky???" -- String & Dom, Airwolf :)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
In article <C5JoIt.E31@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, neil@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Neil Williams) writes:
|> larose@austin.cs.utk.edu (Brian LaRose) writes:
|>
|> >This just a warning to EVERYBODY on the net. Watch out for
|> >folks standing NEXT to the road or on overpasses. They can
|> >cause SERIOUS HARM to you and your car.
|>
|> >(just a cliff-notes version of my story follows)
|>
|> >10pm last night, I was travelling on the interstate here in
|> >knoxville, I was taking an offramp exit to another interstate
|> >and my wife suddenly screamed and something LARGE hit the side
|> >of my truck. We slowed down, but after looking back to see the
|> >vandals standing there, we drove on to the police station.
|>
|> >She did get a good look at the guy and saw him "cock his arm" with
|> >something the size of a cinderblock, BUT I never saw him. We are
|> >VERY lucky the truck sits up high on the road; if it would have hit
|> >her window, it would have killed her.
|>
|> >The police are looking for the guy, but in all likelyhood he is gone.
|>
|> >I am a very good driver (knock on wood), but it was night-time and
|> >I never saw the guy. The police said they thought the motive was to
|> >hit the car, have us STOP to check out the damage, and then JUMP US,
|> >and take the truck.
|>
|> >PLEASE BE AWARE OF FOLKS. AND FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, PLEASE DON'T STOP!!!!
|>
|> >peace.
|>
|>
|> >--
|> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> >brian larose larose@cs.utk.edu #12, 3103 Essary Rd. Knoxville, TN 37918.
|>
|> >{}
|>
|> As long as we're on the subject... Several years ago myself and two others
|> were riding in the front of a Toyota pickup heading south on Interstate 5
|> north of Seattle, WA. Someone threw a rock of an overpass and hit our
|> windshield. Not by accident I'm sure, it was impossible to get up to the
|> overpass quickly to see who did it. We figured it was kids, reported it and
|> left.
|> A couple of years ago it happend again and killed a guy at my company. He was
|> in his mid-fourties and left behind a wife and children. Turned out there was
|> a reformatory for juviniles a few blocks away. They caught the 14 year old
|> that did it. They put a cover over the overpass, what else could they do?
|> I don't think I'll over forget this story.
In Des Moines, Iowa, about a year ago, some kid dropped a rock from an
overpass and hit car just behind the windshield. It put a dent in the roof,
so I guess I was lucky it hit metal.
It's frustrating that we can't do much. Bother the city government to put
covers on all overpasses? Slow down/speed up a bit when driving under all
overpasses in the city? I like the first better, but that will take time
and lots of people talking to the city governments.
Just another .02...
--
Bryan Welch Amateur Radio: N0SFG
Internet: europa@vnet.ibm.com (best), bwelch@scf.nmsu.edu
Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb
Disclaimer: It's all opinion. Everything. So there.
| 7rec.autos |
victor@inqmind.bison.mb.ca (Victor Laking) writes:
)Do you know what frequencies chanels 17 to 19 use and what is usually
)allocated to those frequencies for broadcast outside of cable?
17 is air comm.
18 is amateur
19 is business and public service
--
Ken Thompson N0ITL
NCR Corp. Peripheral Products Division Disk Array Development
3718 N. Rock Road Wichita KS 67226 (316)636-8783
Ken.Thompson@wichitaks.ncr.com
| 12sci.electronics |
Does anyone out there have the shorthanded goal totals of the NHL players
for this season? We're trying to finish our rotisserie stats and need SHG
to make it complete.
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
MLB Standings and Scores for Thursday, April 15th, 1993
(including yesterday's games)
NATIONAL WEST Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road
Houston Astros 05 03 .625 -- 5-3 Won 5 00-03 05-00
Atlanta Braves 06 04 .600 -- 6-4 Lost 1 03-03 03-01
San Francisco Giants 05 04 .556 0.5 5-4 Lost 1 02-01 03-03
Los Angeles Dodgers 03 06 .333 2.5 3-6 Lost 3 00-02 03-04
Colorado Rockies 02 05 .286 2.5 2-5 Lost 3 02-03 00-02
San Diego Padres 02 06 .250 3.0 2-6 Lost 3 00-03 02-03
Cincinnati Reds 02 07 .222 3.5 2-7 Lost 3 01-02 01-05
NATIONAL EAST
Philadelphia Phillies 08 01 .889 -- 8-1 Won 5 05-01 03-00
Pittsburgh Pirates 06 02 .750 1.5 6-2 Won 3 03-02 03-00
St. Louis Cardinals 06 02 .750 1.5 6-2 Won 2 04-02 02-00
New York Mets 04 03 .571 3.0 4-3 Won 2 02-03 02-00
Chicago Cubs 04 05 .444 4.0 4-5 Won 1 01-02 03-03
Montreal Expos 03 05 .375 4.5 3-5 Lost 2 00-02 03-03
Florida Marlins 03 06 .333 5.0 3-6 Won 2 02-04 01-02
AMERICAN WEST Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road
Texas Rangers 06 02 .750 -- 6-2 Lost 1 04-02 02-00
California Angels 05 02 .714 0.5 5-2 Won 3 03-02 02-00
Oakland Athletics 04 03 .571 1.5 4-3 Lost 1 04-02 00-01
Seattle Mariners 04 03 .571 1.5 4-3 Won 1 03-02 01-01
Chicago White Sox 04 04 .500 2.0 4-4 Won 1 02-03 02-01
Minnesota Twins 04 04 .500 2.0 4-4 Lost 1 01-02 03-02
Kansas City Royals 01 07 .125 5.0 1-7 Lost 2 01-05 00-02
AMERICAN EAST
Boston Red Sox 06 02 .750 -- 6-2 Won 2 02-00 04-02
New York Yankees 05 03 .625 1.0 5-3 Won 2 02-00 03-03
Toronto Blue Jays 04 03 .571 1.5 4-3 Lost 1 03-02 01-01
Detroit Tigers 03 04 .429 2.5 3-4 Won 1 01-00 02-04
Cleveland Indians 03 05 .375 3.0 3-5 Lost 2 02-01 01-04
Milwaukee Brewers 02 05 .286 3.5 2-5 Lost 4 00-02 02-03
Baltimore Orioles 02 06 .250 4.0 2-6 Won 1 00-02 02-04
YESTERDAY'S SCORES
(IDLE teams listed in alphabetical order)
NATIONAL LEAGUE AMERICAN LEAGUE
Houston 9 Baltimore 6
Montreal 5 Texas 5
Pittsburgh 11 Seattle 10
San Diego 7 Toronto 9 (10)
Chicago 6 Cleveland 7
Atlanta 0 Boston 12
Cincinnati 2 California 12
Philadelphia 9 Milwaukee 2
New York 6 Kansas City 5
Colorado 3 New York 6
Florida 6 Minnesota PPD
San Francisco 4 Chicago RAIN
St. Louis 2 Detroit IDLE
Los Angeles 1 (15) Oakland IDLE
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Hernandez | RAMS | | /.\ ******* _|_|_ / | LAKERS
jtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU | KINGS | |__ | | DODGERS _|_|_ | | RAIDERS
jtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU | ANGELS |____||_|_| ******* | | |___| CLIPPERS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
In article <CMM.0.90.2.735413309.thomasp@surt.ifi.uio.no>, Thomas Parsli <thomasp@ifi.uio.no> writes:
> I`m NOT saying you should ban guns, OR that you should take them away
> from responsible owners.
But this is all gun control laws end up doing. Politicians can never
manage to get a handle on those who obtain arms illegally, so all their
laws can ever do is further restrict people who obtain them legally.
Karen McNutt, a local attorney, states that there are about two MILLION
licensed gun owners in Massachusetts. In the past year, the number of
licensed gun owners involved in gun crimes was something like SIX.
Yet, there were a large number of gun crimes in the state last year.
Does passing laws that will further restricting only those people ALREADY
obeying laws pay any dividents?
> All I`m saing is that guns should be treated with respect from owners, sellers
> AND legislators.
So far, I've seen them treated with the least respect by legislators.
> I believe guns are a problem in many countries and that crime rates
> WOULD fell if they were more restricted.
See, this is what I call the "argument from religion:" "I believe." Don't
believe -- it's not NECESSARY to take this on faith. Go look at the history
of countries that passed gun restrictions. Pay particular attention to
whether or not violent crime was HIGHER before the restrictions and LOWER
after. (Don't look at "violent gun crimes," that's begging the question.)
You may be very surprised.
> If ALL crimes done with guns stopped AND all accidents also stopped or
> was reduced to a minimum THEN I would consider lifting all gun control.
You have this absolutely backwards. If crime stopped in the presence of
strict gun control, there is NO WAY I would consider lifting any of it.
However, if gun control made absolutely NO IMPROVEMENT in the violent
crime rate, THAT'S when I would have it lifted. Think about it.
So far, none of the stats show any improvement...
> Likevise if car-accidents fell to a minimum in europe, I (and probably
> most people I know) would demand easier drivers-tests.
> (ca. 20 hours and more than 2500$ today....)
Do you really think driver's tests are any indication of your propensity
for having accidents?
I've never known anybody stupid enough to take a driving test while
drunk; after having been up all night; with two fighting kids in the
back seat; with a hot cup of coffee on their lap; or while putting on
makeup, reading the newspaper, or talking on their cellular phone.
But that's what they're doing when they have those accidents.
> In other words -We should have legislation because it`s neccacery !!
How can anything that has no positive effect at all ever be "necessary?"
> The one gun/month case in Virginia:
> I was thinking about the reactions on the proposal...
> Loud screeming about civil rights and 2. amendment.
And it didn't help, any of it.
> Winnie the Poh:
> Do you want peace or weapons Winnie?
> -Yes please!
I'm sorry, I don't remember any story where Winnie the Pooh was
offered weapons.
--
cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...
| 16talk.politics.guns |
Would someone be kind enought to document the exact
nature of the evidence against the BD's without reference to
hearsay or newsreports. I would also like to know more about
their past record etc. but again based on solid not media
reports.
My reason for asking for such evidence is that last night
on Larry King Live a so-called "cult-expert" was interviewed from
Australia who claimed that it was his evidence which led to the
original raid. This admission, if true, raises the nasty
possibility that the Government acted in good faith, which I
believe they did, on faulty evidence. It also raises the
possibility that other self proclaimed cult experts were advising
them and giving ver poor advice.
A few years ago Anson Shupe and David Bromley published
STRANGE GODS: THE GREAT AMERICAN CULT SCARE (Beacon, Boston, 1981
- and THE NEW VIGILANTES: ANTI-CULTISTS AND NEW RELIGIONS -Sage,
Beverly Hills, 1980. Both books suggested the possibility of
tragic results if self-proclaimed cult experts were ever taken
seriously. Perhaps their diagnosis of the anit-cult movement
needs investigating in light of the Waco tragedy.
| 19talk.religion.misc |
In article <1993Apr5.202800.27705@wam.umd.edu>, spinoza@next06wor.wam.umd.edu (Yon Bonnie Laird of Cairn Robbing) writes:
|> In article <C50wJJ.J4r@newsflash.concordia.ca> ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA
|> (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
|> > > 1)why do jews who don't even believe in God (as is the case with many
|> > of the founders of secular zionism) have a right in Palestine more
|> > than the inhabitants of Palestine, just because God gave you the land?
|> G-d has nothing to do with it. Some of the land was in fact given to the
|> Jews by the United Nations, quite a bit of it was purchased from Arab
|> absentee landlords. Present claims are based on prior ownership (purchase
|> from aforementioned absentee landlords) award by the United Nations in the
|> partition of the Palestine mandate territory, and as the result of
|> defensive wars fought against the Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians, et al.
|>
|> ***
|> > 2)Why do most of them speak of the west bank as theirs while most of
|> > the inhabitants are not Jews and do not want to be part of Israel?
|> First, I should point out that many Jews do not in fact agree with the
|> idea that the West Bank is theirs. Since, however, I agree with those who
|> claim the West Bank, I think I can answer your question thusly: the West
|> bank was what is called the spoils of war. Hussein ordered the Arab Legion
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is very funny.
Anyway, suppose that in fact israel didnot ATTACK jordan till jordan attacked
israel. Now, how do you explain the attack on Syria in 1967, Syria didnot
enter the war with israel till the 4th day .
By the way it is funny that you are implying that the reason behind 1967
by israel was only to capture Sinai, egypt !
|> to attack Israel, which was a poor move, seeing as how the Israelis
|> promptly kicked his butt. The territory is therefore forefeit. Retaining
|> possession of ALL of the West bank is not desirable, but it beats
|> national suicide for the Israelis. Put another way, one could ask why it
|> is that so many Palestinians seem to think that Tel-Aviv belongs to them
|> and the future state of Palestine. As long as this state of affairs
|> continues, it seems that to give the Palestinians a place from which they
|> can launch attacks on Jews is a real poor idea. Giving up the entire West
|> Bank would be idiotic froma security standpoint. In addition, there is
|> the small matter of Jerusalem, which is considered to be part of the West
|> Bank. The chances of the Israelis giving up Jerusalem are nil. Even
|> leftists who think Yasser is a really cool dude, like Yossi Sarid, aren't
|> going to propose giving up Jerusalem. If he did, he'd get run out of town
|> on a rail.
|>
|>
|> chag sameach!
|> jeff
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
rborden@ugly.UVic.CA (Ross Borden) writes:
> In article <734850108.F00002@permanet.org> Mark.Prado@p2.f349.n109.z1.permane
> >
> >One could go on and on and on here, but I wonder ... how
> >many people read sci.space and of what power/influence are
> >these individuals?
> >
> Quick! Everyone who sees this, post a reply that says:
>
> "Hey, I read sci.space!"
>
> Then we can count them, and find out how many there are! :-)
> (This will also help answer that nagging question: "Just what is
> the maximum bandwidth of the Internet, anyways?")
>
As an Amateur Radio operator (VHF 2metres) I like to keep up with what is
going up (and for that matter what is coming down too).
In about 30 days I have learned ALOT about satellites current, future and
past all the way back to Vanguard series and up to Astro D observatory
(space). I borrowed a book from the library called Weater Satellites (I
think, it has a photo of the earth with a TIROS type satellite on it.)
I would like to build a model or have a large color poster of one of the
TIROS satellites I think there are places in the USA that sell them.
ITOS is my favorite looking satellite, followed by AmSat-OSCAR 13
(AO-13).
TTYL
73
Jim
jim@inqmind.bison.mb.ca
The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba 204 488-1607
| 14sci.space |
For Sale:
VCR - Samsung VR2610 basic 2 head machine. It has a problem loading the tape,
otherwise it plays and records just fine, remote is missing. $25 or make offer.
Cassette deck - Pioneer CT-F900, three head, servo control, dolby. This was
the top of the line (or close to it) several years ago. The rewind doesn't
work well. All else is fine. Service & owners manual included. $45 or offer.
Generator - 120 VAC 2000-2500 watt, has a voltmeter w/duplex outlet, a 5 hp
engine should drive it to full output. Manufactered by Master Mechanic in
Burlington Wisconsin. $50 or make an offer
EICO Model 625 tube tester. $20 or make offer
Lawn spreader - Scott "precision flow" model PF-1 drop type, excellent
condition, ideal for a smaller yard. $20 or make offer.
Craig days: 979-0059 home: 293-5739
| 6misc.forsale |
In article <1993Apr23.010640.4583@news.columbia.edu>, pgf5@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Peter Garfiel Freeman) writes:
> Janet Reno should be lauded for her decision to attack the
> compound of the Davidians. I mean, the last thing we
> need in this country is more gun-toting hicks who want
> to end the world. I think ATF, the US Marshalls, the FBI and local
> police forces should make a concerted effort to rid us
> of the scourge of rebellious freaks.
>
> Welch eine Wonne! Welch ein Leiden!
>
>
> Pete
>
>
While dedicating the Holocaust Memorial Museum, President
Clinton remarked:
``The evil represented in this museum is incontestable,
but as we are its witness, so must we remain its adversary in the
world in which we live, so we must stop the fabricators of history
and the bullies as well."
Clinton made this comment shortly after giving Janet Reno
the go-ahead to hastily construct a gas chamber and crematorium
in Waco... on the fiftieth anniversary of the Warsaw uprising.
Say, wasn't Monday also the anniversary of Paul Revere's ride?
Is that a clue?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Joe Gaut | In the super-state, it really does not
<f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> | matter at all what actually happened.
Remember the Alamo | Truth is what the government chooses to
Remember Waco | tell you. Justice is what it wants to happen.
--Jim Garrison, New Orleans, La.
| 16talk.politics.guns |
In article <1993Apr22.103922.23177@husc3.harvard.edu>,
mlevin@husc8.harvard.edu (Michael Levin) wrote:
>
>
> I just bought a little gizmo that is supposed to be installed "in
> series with the tip or ring lines" of the phone wire. Which ones are
> those? Suppose I am holding a regular phone wire, such that the little
> plastic tooth (on the little plastic square thing with the naked lead
> ends that you plug into the phone) is facing down, and away from me.
> Which of the 4 wires that I see is the "tip" and which is the "ring"?
> Please reply to mlevin@husc8.harvard.edu.
>
> Mike Levin
Assuming you are refering to standard POTS or ground start lines:
If you are looking at loop start lines under idle conditions, the RING
conductor is the one with approximately -48 to -52 vDC with respect to
ground while the TIP conductor is at or very near ground potential (be sure
to reference the telco ground when taking your measurements).
If you are dealing with ground start lines under idle conditions, the RING
conductor will be the one with approximately -48 to -52 vDC while the TIP
conductor would look like it's floating (you may see some potential from
line capacitance it will bleed off over time). Remember to use the telco
ground as your reference when making measurements.
_________
______/ /_______
/ '67 Caprice /
/_____ Sport Coupe_____/
/_________/
| 12sci.electronics |
In article <1r4af2$qve@hsdndev.harvard.edu>, nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder 432-4219) writes:
|> Hey,guess what's coming to ESPN for a change? A playoff which doesn't
|> involve the Pens. Not that there is anything wrong with that...
|>
|> ESPN games :
|>
|> Thursday Game3 Pens at Devils at 7:30(Gary Thorne and Bill Clement)
|> Saturday Game4 Caps at NY Isles at 7:30(Tom Mees and John Davidson)
|>
|> ABC game :
|>
|> Sunday Game4 Pens at Devils at 1:00 (Gary Thorne and Bill Clement)
|>
Only if you are in the eastern time zone - pacific will get the
Kings vs Calgary
|> ESPN named its #2 broadcast team on Tuesday. It paired Tom Mees(play by
|> play) with John Davidson(analyst).
|>
|> -PPV Mark
--
Nancy J. Spera, IMT Division # "If I didn't know for a fact that P
Chevron Petroleum Technology Co. G Elvis was working in a donut shop E
P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446 O in Beaver Falls, I'd swear he was N
Tel: (310) 694-7761 njs@chevron.com # driving this truck." Scotty Baldwin S
| 10rec.sport.hockey |
The FBI released large amounts of CS tear gas into the compound in
Waco. CS tear gas is a fine power. Is CS inflammable. Grain dust
suspended in air can form an explosive mixture, will CS suspended in air
form an explosive mix? Could large quantities of CS have fueled the
rapid spread of fire in the compound?
Please note I am directing all followups to talk.politics.guns
--
Rod Anderson N0NZO | The only acceptable substitute
Boulder, CO | for brains is silence.
rcanders@nyx.cs.du.edu | -Solomon Short-
satellite N0NZO on ao-16 |
| 16talk.politics.guns |
In article <1srg8c$i54@spud.Hyperion.COM>, the author writes:
> I am setting up my DOS/UNIX box on a 116M IDE and a 412M SCSI drive
> and was wondering about the use of the (MS-DOS 5.0) JOIN command. I
> like the way it sets things up since I won't have to stick with the C:
> D: & E: (crap) that DOS enforces. I like how it would mimic mount
> points of UNIX filesystems. I have heard that there were problems
> with using it, or at least under older versions of DOS. Please tell!
I have been using the JOIN command for many years now, mostly with good
success in duplicating unix-style file mounts. You will hear lots of
people cursing JOIN because they confuse it with the dos APPEND command
(a truely gnarly hack), but don't believe them. You also will hear
people saying that Microsoft recommends that you not use JOIN. But, in
Microsoft's Windows 4 Workgroups Resource toolkit, the following appears:
"JOIN, an MS-DOS utility, works fine with Windows for Workgroups 3.1 if
you do not change the state of the joined drives during a Windows for
Workgroups 3.1 session. This includes adding or removing joined drives
from within Windows for Workgroups. We recommend that you do not use
JOIN when running Windows Setup or Windows for Workgroups 3.1."
Within this caveat, JOIN appears to be valid under windows. However, I
have found a couple of applications that don't deal well with filesystems
that have been "mounted" using join.
In particular, the worst offender is Word for Windows 2.0x. It gets very
confused when you edit and then try to save a file on a joined drive. It
wants to create the saved file as ~NNNNN.tmp in the current dir, then
delete the old file and rename the ~NNNNN.tmp file to the *.doc file.
Unfortunately, WfW usually writes the ~NNNNN.tmp file in some idiotic
place other than the current directory (often in the root dir of the
joined filesystem, but not always). Then, after deleting the original
*.doc file, it can't find the ~NNNNN.tmp file to rename it. Unless you
search your disk systems, the document is gone.
I have also found subtle problems using the MKS toolkit from a DOS box
when JOINed filesystems are present. I used to join c:\temp with a 4meg
ramdisk, but MKS sometimes gets confused when doing an "ls" on the c:\temp
dir, and misses some files in the temp dir. (This is difficult to
reproduce, but it goes away totally when JOIN is not used.) I think
this is a Windows problem, rather than MKS's, since it works OK under raw
DOS.
So, I would suggest that you can use JOIN, but be aware that it may not
be as robust you would like.
Wouldn't it be real great to "mount" network drives (i.e. Z:) under the main
file tree, rather than having all those darned drive letters? Unfortunately,
JOIN won't let you do it. There was talk on the net about a simple patch
to let JOIN work on network drives, but I don't remember the source.
It's too bad the JOIN command is not better implemented, since it would
avoid using all those stupid drive letters. I realize that MessDos was
meant for casual, even ignorant users, so "mounting" all the drives in
one file tree might be confusing. But, it looks like MS is going to carry
this over into windows NT (another OS meant for casual, even igorant
users -- NOT!). With all it's old family system baggage, maybe MS needs
a recovery group so they can get on with life :-(.
--
Jerome (Jerry) Schneider Domain: jls@atg.COM
Aspen Technology Group UUCP: {uunet}!csn!atglab!jls
PO Box 673, Ft. Collins, CO 80522 Voice: (303) 484-1488
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
From another space forum
> NOW WHERE DID I LEAVE THOSE PLIERS?
When workers at the Kennedy Space Center disassembled the STS-56
solid rocket boosters they were surprised to find a pair of pliers
lodged into the outside base of the right hand SRB. The tool survived
the trip from the launch pad up to approximately a 250,000 foot
altitude, then down to splashdown and towing back to KSC.
NASA spokesperson Lisa Malone told the media,
"It's been a long time since something like this happened. We've
lost washers and bolts (before) but never a tool like this."
The initial investigation into the incident has shown that a
Thiokol Corp. technician noticed and reported his pliers as missing on
April 2nd. Unfortunately, the worker's supervisor did not act on the
report and Discovery was launched with its "extra payload". NASA
officials were never told of the missing tool before the April 8th
launch date.
The free-flying pliers were supposed to be tethered to the SRB
technician. When the tool was found in an aft section of the booster,
its 18-inch long rope was still attached. The pliers were found in a
part of the booster which is not easily visible from the launch pad.
|(Ron's ed. note: naaahhh, just too easy)
A spokesperson for the Lockheed Space Operations Company said that
the Shuttle processor will take "appropriate action". Thiokol is a
subcontractor to LSOC for work to prepare Shuttle hardware for launch.
_________________________________________________________
Karl Anderson
DEV/2000: Configuration Management/Version Control
Dept 53K/006-2 Rochester, Minnesota 55901
253-8044 Tie 8-453-8044
INTERNET: karl@vnet.ibm.com
PRODIGY: CMMG96A
"To seek, to strive, to find, and not to yield."
Alfred Lord Tennyson
| 14sci.space |
I posted almost the same bad experience with Midwest Micro but our
%^*^&*^&* news program only sent one paragraph out of the middle. In
addition to the facts that:
(a) the modems (I had ordered two) wouldn't work as documented
and
(b) the tech person had NO CLUE as to how it should work,
it also turned out that:
(c) one of the two modems they sent was clearly USED but the techs
thought that was standard practice and
(d) the modems made all three of my floppy drives quit working and
my CMS250 tape drive start running away.
That they are incompetent is one thing, but that they sell used stuff
as new and won't even apologize for it is another. Stay away from
these crooks!
Bob Wilson
wilson@math.wisc.edu
| 3comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware |
1) I think that most of us can afford a stamp and an envelope, and the
cost of printing out a letter.
2) If some kind soul out there would write a letter, and upload it to
the net, everyone could capture it, print it out, and snail-mail it
out to their local congressional critter.
BTW>> I'm working on one.
-nate
o---------------------------+======================================o
| "I hate quotations. | This message brought you by |
| Tell me what you know." | Nate Sammons, and the number 42. |
| --Ralph Waldo Emerson | ns111310@longs.lance.colostate.edu |
o---------------------------+======================================o
| 11sci.crypt |
Dov Bai-MSI Visitor (bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu) wrote:
: In article <C5FG7t.6At@exnet.co.uk> sys1@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher) writes:
: >True, man did not invent the need for food, shelter, warmth and the ilk,
: >but man did invent the property laws and the laws of trespass.
: But how do you think property is generated ? Does it grow automatically
: on trees when we wish so, or someone has to produce it ?
Some say it was generated by God or Goddess; some say it was the result of
the coalescence of billions of tons of interstellar debris. In either case,
the property of which Xavier speaks has been around for millions of years.
: It all follows from the fact that Mother Nature does not
: provide us automatically with our needs,
Oh? When did She *stop*? Mother Nature has been automatically providing
us with her bounty ever since we crawled out of the primordial ooze. It
is not "produced": it produces itself, year after year. Last night, for
example, I saw four deer crossing the road (pretty sight, too); in an
earlier time, one of them would have been dinner.
: There are 2 ways to go with produced things: the first is to
: _trade_ it with the the person(s) who produced it.
: The other one is to take it with a gun from the person who produced
: it. The first way is the civilized method, the second is how savages
: arrange their affairs.
The American Indians had no concept of ownership of property, and often
freely gave of their supplies to neighboring tribes, trading food and
clothing for weapons or services. The Native Hawaiians, like their
Polynesian ancestors, also could not conceive of that idea, and shared
many things with the other Islanders. In fact, "hi'ipoi", the Hawaiian
word for "cherish" means "sharing food". The Great Mahele, in which
the Islands were divided up more-or-less evenly between the rich and
the poor, was a white man's idea. In Africa, villagers will often
share tools, crops, and clothing with other members of their own village
and neighboring villages. Every anthropologist who has ever been to
Africa has at least one tale of the difficulties arising from the so-
called "theft" of the scientists possessions -- two concepts of which,
until the visitors came along, the natives had no understanding.
These are the people we call "savages".
On the other hand, car-jackings and muggings are up from last year.
Dov, before you make further comment on this thread, I think it would
behoove you to study *all* of the facts.
-garison
| 18talk.politics.misc |
Very true (length of time for discussions on creationism vs evolutionism).
Atheists and Christians have been debating since ?? and still debate with
unabated passion 8-).
MAC
--
****************************************************************
Michael A. Cobb
"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois
class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana
-Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu
With new taxes and spending cuts we'll still have 310 billion dollar deficits.
| 19talk.religion.misc |
In article <1qmlgaINNjab@hp-col.col.hp.com>, cab@col.hp.com (Chris Best) writes:
|>
|> Jason Chen writes:
|> > Now here is a new one: vomiting. My guess is that MSG becomes the number one
|> > suspect of any problem. In this case. it might be just food poisoning. But
|> > if you heard things about MSG, you may think it must be it.
|>
|> ----------
|>
|> Yeah, it might, if you only read the part you quoted. You somehow left
|> out the part about "we all ate the same thing." Changes things a bit, eh?
Food poisoning is only one of the many possible causes. Yes, even other people
share the food.
|>
|> You complain that people blame MSG automatically, since it's an unknown and
|> therefore must be the cause. It is equally (if not more) unreasonable to
|> defend it, automatically assuming that it CAN'T be the culprit.
Boy, you computer people only know 1s and 0s, but not much about logic. :-)
No. I did not said MSG was not the culprit. What I argued was that that
there was enough reasonable doubt to convict MSG.
If you want to convict MSG, show me the evidence, not quilty by suspicion.
|> Pepper makes me sneeze. If it doesn't affect you the same way, fine.
|> Just don't tell me I'm wrong for saying so.
Nobody is forcing you to change what you believe. But I certainly don't
want to see somebody preach to ban pepper because that makes him/her
sneeze. That is exactly what some anti-MSG activitiests are doing
|> These people aren't condemning Chinese food, Mr. Chen - just one of its
|> (optional) ingredients. Try not to take it so personally.
Look, people with a last Chen don't necessarily own a Chinese restaurant.
I am not interested if you enjoy Chinese food or not. Exploiting my last
name to discredit me on the issue is hitting below the belt.
What I am interested in is the truth. Let me give you an excert from
a recent FDA hearing:
``There is no evidence orally consumed glutamate has any effect
on the brain,'' said Dr. Richard Wurtman of Massachusetts Institute
of Technology. The anecdotal experiences of individuals is
``superstition, not science,'' he said. ``I don't think glutamate
has made them sick.''
And Dr. Robert Kenney of George Washington University conducted an double
blind test in 1980 showing that the 35 people who reacted to MSG also
had similar reaction when they thought they had MSG but actually not.
Although there are many contradicting personal stories told in this group,
some of them might have been due to other causes. But because the anti MSG
emotion runs so high, that some blame it for anything and everything.
My purpose is to present a balance view on the issue, although I am probably
20-1 outnumbered.
Jason Chen
| 13sci.med |
In article <735952415.AA01739@f-454.fidonet.org> C..Doelle@p26.f3333.n106.z1.fidonet.org (C. Doelle) writes:
>Hello Brad!
>
>Monday April 26 1993 17:24, Brad Smalling wrote to (crosspost 1) All:
>
> BS> since I don't know your setup):
>
> BS> COPY /B WIN.CNF+VGALOGO.LGO+VGALOGO.RLE WIN.COM
>
> BS> (I grabbed this from _Supercharging Windows_ by Judd Robbins--great book)
> BS> This is also how you can put your own logo into the Windows startup
>
>Brad,
> What is the procedure used to 'specially' compress the BMP file? I would
[ to a .rle file ^^^^^^^]
>love to use some of my BMP files I have created as a logo screen. Thanks
>
>Chris
>
>
> * Origin: chris.doelle.@f3333.n106.z1.fidonet.org (1:106/3333.26)
I thought I'd reply to this, though I ain't brad. AT any case, a lot
of picture-file viewers that will convert, say, between .gif,etc, to
.bmp *will* convert to .rle. I Know for a fact that PaintShop
(shareware from cica; /desktop, I think, filename psVVV.zip (I think,
where VVV is the ver. number. If that's not true, let me know and I"ll
post a corection).
This, however, will write your .rle file with a .bmp extension, so you
have to rename it.
NOW, another thing....
this is from the windows' FAQ:
your file has to be less than 64 K
( at least that's what the faq says, but Mine wont work for more than
about 30...maybe they mend 32K, I don't know).
Your file has to fit VGA size (480 * 860, or whatever standard vga size
is.) If you use a non-vga screen (e.g. Cga, ega, svga, there is also a
way to do it, but I thing instead of vgalogo.lgo you use another file,
such as cgalogo.lgo, egalogo.lgo, or something. I'm not sure about
this, as I have a vga, but i'm sure you could find it in the faq (a
windows help ver. of which *is* available at cica, but don't konw the
filename).
ALSO....your .bmp has to be 16 COLOURS Or less.
These specs rule out some of the good .bmp's. I found cartoon drawings
work quite well as they have the advantage of looking good with little
memory.
Finally, REMEMBER TO SAVE YOUR CURRENT WIN.COM before, and put your
new win.com in the windows directory. Also, don't start windows from a
directory where another win.com is present, as *that* is used instead of
the one in the windows dir, and win. won't start.
Share this fairly, but don't take a slice of my pie (PF).
Mickey
--
pe-|| || MICHAEL PANAYIOTAKIS: louray@seas.gwu.edu
ace|| || ...!uunet!seas.gwu.edu!louray
|||| \/| *how do make a ms-windows .grp file reflect a HD directory??*
\\\\ | "well I ain't always right, but I've never been wrong.."(gd)
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
11swhitfield@gallua.gallaudet.edu writes:
>Chris Bosio, A Seattle M's Pitcher, just no hit the Red Sox 7-0!!! This is the
>second no hitter in Seattle History!! (Randy Johnson got the first) Also, this
>was Bosio's first career no hitter!
>This is MLB first No Hitter this year!
>Go M's..
TRIVIA TIME!!! OK, We all know that Dave "My Batting Average is Down
in the" Valle caught Chris Bosio's no hitter last night (and is batting over
.300, BTW). Here is the question: Who caught Randy Johnson's no-hitter
in June of 1990. (Hint: Not Dave Valle :-))
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\ The Mad Kobold *is*: Douglas Todd Norris (n9143349@henson.cc.wwu.edu) \\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\ Depeche Mode, U2, They Might Be Giants, INXS, O.M.D., a-Ha, The Police \\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\ "Exercise your basic rights, we could build a building site \\\
\\\ From the bricks of shame is built the hope." Depeche Mode, If You Want \\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\ Van. Canucks Sea. SuperSonics Sea. Mariners Sea. Seahawks \\\
\\\ 2-0 (1st rnd) 53-26 (2nd) 6-8 (5th) 2-14 (5th) \\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\ Congratulations to Chris Bosio (Mariners) on his no-hitter of Boston! \\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
In article <GORNISH.93Apr26111045@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu>, gornish@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Edward H. Gornish) writes:
|> What are people's opinions about laser detectors? Escort makes a
|> laser detector, the Passport 1000, and claims it works fine. However,
|> I've talked to some people who have said that it will only work if you
|> are lucky - i.e. if the cop happens to point his laser at a car in
|> front of you, and the laser beam happens to reflect back to your
|> detector. Otherwise it won't work. Regular radar, of course, travels
|> in all directions; hence it is more detectable. Any comments?
|>
|> Escort has a deal (till the end of April, I think), where if you buy
|> their wideband (Passport 3200 - X, K, Ka) and laser detectors, you'll
|> save $60 off of buying them separately. In this case, the addition of
|> the laser detector over the Passport 3200 is only $40 (i.e. Passport
|> 1000 normally costs $100).
Uniden makes an all in one unit (X, K, Ka, Laser) for about $130.
Colorado Radar sells passive radar jammers, the passive supposedly being legal,
for about $100. wont help you with Laser however.
Scott
| 12sci.electronics |
troy@sequent.com (Troy Wecker) writes:
>There is no question that the Valentine-1 ($299) has good range but
>not significant enough to be 2 or 3 times as expensive as some of the
>others.
The big win with the V-1 is not its range but rather its
directionality and multiple-transmitter tracking (which you later
called a "gimmick" -- a conclusion I disagree with). Since the
detector incorporates multiple receivers it's not surprising that it's
significantly more expensive. While the added capabilities may not
help you, there is added value for those of us who live in areas where
there are a lot of false-alarms.
>Summary: Valentine-1 way too expensive and not a significantly better
>performer!
I certainly call it "interesting" but I'm another person who thinks
that the added value might be coming at too high a cost. Very
adequate radar detectors are available for less than half the cost and
one of them has suited me rather well. If I did more long-distance
travelling in areas I'm not familiar with I'd probably consider
getting the V-1 because it's additional information would be useful in
discriminating false alarms.
jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
| 7rec.autos |
In article <1qjb40$n4f@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes:
|> In article <1qijer$a2r@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> taite@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu () writes:
|> #you can't force your view of objective morality on me.
|>
|> Try me.
|>
|> [Note to readers outside t.a. :
|>
|> taite has been advocating violent civil disobedience in the U.S.
|> in order to promote his view that abortion should be illegal. Given the
|> necessity and the opportunity, I would have no objection to "forcing"
|> morality on him, if that's what it would take to prevent him carrying out
|> his stated desire to "hang women who have multiple abortions"]
What do you mean when you say "I would have no objection?"
Do you mean it's moral to use force on someone who advocates
the use of force?
Or do you mean that sometimes we have to use force on such
people out of necessity or self-defence, while recognizing
that our own actions in doing so are not moral?
jon.
| 19talk.religion.misc |
No doubt this is an old question, but I didn't find the answer in the
FAQs I could find, so - here goes:
I have a Sunview application that I want to convert to X (OpenLook,
Motiv, whatever). I remember hearing quite some time ago that there
are tools to accomplish this task.
a) is that so?
b) are they public domain?
c) any good, i.e.
d) advantages over reimplementing the interface myself?
Thanks,
-- Alex
| 5comp.windows.x |
>DATE: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 18:13:09 GMT
>FROM: R. Bruce Rakes <bruce@cortex.dixie.com>
>
>mcgoy@unicorn.acs.ttu.edu (David McGaughey) writes:
>
>>I always thought that the Pope was a bear.
>
>>You know, because of that little saying:
>
>>Does a bear shit in the woods?
>>Is the Pope Catholic?
>
>>There MUST be SOME connection between those two lines!
>
>And I always heard it:
>
>Is the bear Catholic?
>Does the pope ????
>
>Oh nevermind!
>--
>R. Bruce Rakes, Software Systems Manager
>Elekta Instruments, Inc. 8 Executive Park W, Suite 809, Atlanta, GA 30329
>Voice:(404)315-1225 FAX:(404)315-7850 email: bruce@elekta.com
>
Anyone from Alabama knows it should be:
Is "The Bear" Catholic?
Does a Pope shit in the woods?
The Pope may not be a bear, but "The Bear" is a god.
(Paul "Bear" Bryant, Football coach/god, University of Alabama.)
| 0alt.atheism |
I made a mistake on the posted article [been fighting food
poisoning for last 24 hours...]
The second paragraph should state the following...
"Doctors cleared Sandberg to swing a padded bat at a ball
on a tee and to catch a ball in his gloved hand."
Sorry for the error, didn't know it until after posting.
Jeffery
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
In <305@VisiCom.COM> makey@VisiCom.COM (Jeff Makey) writes:
>In article <C5so84.Hxv@demon.co.uk> Graham Toal <gtoal@gtoal.com> writes:
>>I am *completely* baffled by why Dorothy Denning has chosen
>>to throw away her academic respectability like this.
>She hasn't. Dorothy Denning has spent many years earning the
>professional respect of her colleagues, and something won in this
>manner is not easily lost. Her support of the clipper -- no matter
>how unpopular that position may be -- serves far more to enhance the
>clipper's respectability than to diminish her own.
I wouldn't think so. Asking people to trust a secret algorithm seems
unsound to me.
--
Arthur L. Rubin: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (work) Beckman Instruments/Brea
216-5888@mcimail.com 70707.453@compuserve.com arthur@pnet01.cts.com (personal)
My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of my employer.
| 11sci.crypt |
In article <1rc1f3INN7rl@emx.cc.utexas.edu>
bill@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Bill Jefferys) writes:
>If you would like to understand better the sort of behavior
>that we saw in connection with the Waco tragedy, I'd strongly
>recommend reading _When Prophecy Fails_, by Leon Festinger,
>Henry Riecken, and Stanley Schachter (available as a Harper
>Torchbook). It goes a long way towards explaining how a
>belief system can be so strong as to withstand even overwhelming
>disconfirmatory evidence. At least, read the first chapter.
>Interestingly, just as the Branch Davidians had roots in the
>Seventh-Day Adventist movement, the SDAs themselves had their
>roots in the Millerite movement of the first half of the 19th
>century--a movement that expected the end of the world in 1843,
>was disappointed when it did not take place, and wound up as
>a church.
That's also how Christianity came to be. The immediate return of Jesus
was expected; when it didn't happen, they formed their own church.
| 19talk.religion.misc |
In article <1r1ma9INNno7@owl.csrv.uidaho.edu>, lanph872@crow.csrv.uidaho.edu (Rob Lanphier) writes:
|> Malcolm Lee (mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca) wrote:
|>
|> : Do you consider Neo-Nazis and white supremists to be Christian? I'd hardly
|> : classify them as Christian. Do they follow the teachings of Christ? Love
|> : one another. Love your neighbour as yourself. Love your enemies. Is Jesus
|> : Christ their Lord and Saviour? By the persecution of Jews, they are violating
|> : all the precepts of what Christ died for. They are in direct violation of
|> : the teachings of Christ. Even Jesus who was crucified by the Jewish leaders
|> : of that time, loved His enemies by asking the Father for forgiveness of their
|> : sins. I am a Christian and I bear no animosity towards Jews or any one else.
|> : The enemy is Satan, not our fellow man.
|>
|> In Mark 16:16, Jesus is quoted as saying "Whoever believes and is baptized
|> will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." I
|> consider most Neo-Nazis and White Supremisists to be Christians because:
|> a) They say they are
|> b) They feel it necessary to justify their actions with the Bible
|>
Where does it say in the bible that Christians are supposed to persecute
Jews? Isn't it love your enemies instead? They may say they are "Christian"
but do their actions speak differently? Do you believe what everyone tells
you? I don't. I came to believe in God by my own investigation and conclusions.
And ultimately by my own choice. Salvation, however, was granted only through
the grace of God.
|> The Bible provides us with no clear definition of what a Christian is. It
|> tells us what a Christian *should* do, but then it goes on to say that as
|> long as you believe, your sins will be forgiven.
To be a Christian is to model oneself after Jesus Christ as implied by the
very name Christian. If you say you believe in your head but do not feel in
your heart, what does that say of your belief?
|> White Supremisists and
|> Neo-Nazis may not be your brand of Christian, but by believing in Christ,
|> they are Christian.
|>
White supremists and Neo-Nazis are NOT any brand of Christian.
"If you hate your whom you can see then how can you love God whom you cannot
see?"
What does this belief entail? Believing in Christ and having your sins
forgiven in His name does NOT give a Christian a free licence to sin. To
repent of a sin is to ask forgiveness of that sin and TRY NOT to do it
again. I am a Christian, but if you lump me in with racists and accuse me
of being such, then are you not pre-judging me? BTW, I am of Chinese racial
background and I know what it is to be part of a visible minority in this
country. I don't think that I would be favourably looked upon by these
White supremist "Christians" as you call them.
Anyone can say what they believe, but if they don't practice what they preach,
then their belief is false. Do you concur?
|> Now, for your original statement:
|> : |> : What bothers me most is why people who have no religious affiliation
|> : |> : continue to persecute Jews? Why this hatred of Jews? The majority of
|> : |> : people who persecute Jews are NOT Christians (I can't speak for all
|> : |> : Christians and there are bound to be a few who are on the anti-Semitism
|> : |> : bandwagon.)
|>
|> You imply here that it is predominately atheists and agnostics who
|> persecute Jews. I am hard pressed to think of even an example of Jewish
|> persecution in the hands of atheists/agnostics.
Nazis and racists in general are the ones that come to my immediate attention.
What I believe is that such people may be using the bible to mask their racial
intolerance and bigotry. They can do as they do and hide behind Christianity
but I tell you that Jesus would have nothing to do with them.
|> About the only one that
|> comes to mind would be in the former Soviet Union, where many religious
|> people suffered some sort of persecution (not to mention many
|> atheist/agnostics who suffered persecution for believing the government
|> sucked).
|>
No arguement there.
|>
|> Rob Lanphier
|> lanph872@uidaho.edu
|>
The only point I'm trying to make is that those who call themselves Christian
may not be Christian. I ask that you draw your own conclusions by what they
do and what they say. If they are not modelled after the example of Jesus
Christ then they are NOT Christian. If they have not repented of their sins
and accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour then they are
NOT Christian. These are the only criteria to being a Christian.
May God be with you,
Malcolm Lee :)
| 19talk.religion.misc |
In article <91387@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccastmm@prism.gatech.EDU (Mike Marler)
writes:
>In <1993Apr2.224251.21212@rigel.econ.uga.edu> shannonr@moe.coe.uga.edu
(Shannon Reeves Cntr. for Ed. Tech) writes:
>At times it "seems" as if no others in the bullpen are used by Cox for middle
>relief. Marvin only pitched 7 innings this spring. He is supposed to be
>over his surgery, and I am wondering if Cox is still trying to decide who to
>use as middle relief and thinks that Marvin might be his better choice
>early in the season. I would immediately give McMchael many chances to
>pitch after spring and then use Bedrock and Freeman after that. I am
wondering
>how he intends to use Howell. (Whatever happened to Senior Smoke?)
-------------
Do you mean Juan Berenguer? He was traded for Mark Davis in the middle
of last season. Exchanged one stiff for another, as Berenguer hadn't
come back from his injury in 91. I think he's retired now.
Anyhow, as middle relief, Marvin ain't that bad. He at least can
pitch a couple of innings or do mop-up work. I don't know much
about McMichael (was he the Mexican League guy?), but
everybody else in the pen is a 1 inning man, except maybe
Mercker.
-------------------------------------------------------
Eric Roush fierkelab@ bchm.biochem.duke.edu
"I am a Marxist, of the Groucho sort"
Grafitti, Paris, 1968
TANSTAAFL! (although the Internet comes close.)
--------------------------------------------------------
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
We're looking at various X11 clients for PC's and we're looking for some
information about the relative efficiency of different products. Are any
notably efficient (fast)? Are any notably inefficient? I assume that a
Graphics Accelerator makes them significantly faster (right now I'm looking
at ico running on Xoftware/32 for Windows sitting on the Distinct TCP/IP
platform, and it's (not surprisingly) much slower than ico running on the
Sparc10's console. What are the key ways of improving performance for
PC (presumably Windows) clients?
Also, what about async solutions? (Yes, I appreciate that it will be
*much* slower even with V.42bis.) I'm in the process of installing PPP
(with header compression). How does that compare to cslip? I've seen
a product called XRemote by NCD that promises to be pretty efficient, but
are there comparable products out there? If we're looking for efficiency
for async, PC clients, what should we be looking at in addition to standard
PPP w/ compression and XRemote?
Any information would be greatly appreciated. I'm still taking in all
the information in the faq, but any tips about the relative efficiency
of various product offerings would be great. (I get the impression
that discussions about speed are largely application specific, but
that not withstanding, any comments would be appreciated.) Thanks.
-- Rob
--
Rob Ryan, System Constructs Inc.
rryan@panix.com
| 5comp.windows.x |
In article <930419.122738.5s2.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew
<mathew@mantis.co.uk> wrote:
>
> lpzsml@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (Steve Lang) writes:
> > Values can also refer to meaning. For example in computer science the
> > value of 1 is TRUE, and 0 is FALSE.
>
> Not in Lisp.
True, all you need to define is one statement that defined one
polarity, and all the other states are considered the other
polarity. Then again what is the meaning of nil, false or true :-) ?
Cheers,
Kent
---
sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.
| 0alt.atheism |
Does anyone know how can I get detailed information about PALs and GALs.
Please reply via e-mail.
Thanks a lot in advance.
--
red@paola.dei.unipd.it
red@maya.dei.unipd.it
| 12sci.electronics |
In article <May.13.02.28.01.1993.1436@geneva.rutgers.edu> JEK@cu.nih.gov
writes:
> In one sense, no statement by another is subject to my private
> interpretation. If reliable historians tell me that the Athenians
> lost the Pelopennesian War, I cannot simply interpret this away
> because I wanted the Athenians to win. Facts are facts and do not go
> away because I want them to be otherwise.
> In another sense, every statement is subject to private
> interpretation, in that I have to depend on my brains and
> expereience to decide what it means, and whether it is sufficiently
> well attested to merit my assent. Even if the statement occurs in an
> inspired writing, I still have to decide, using my own best
> judgement, whether it is in fact inspired. This is not arrogance --
> it is just an inescapable fact.
Yes, there are these two senses of interpretation, and certainly our
decision to accept Scripture as inspired ultimately rests on our own
private opinion. However, when reading Scripture, we have to remember
that the Scriptures were given by God for our instruction, and that
the interpretation that matters is the one God intended. For example,
if I decide that the fact that John the Baptist is Elijah teaches the
doctrine of reincarnation, I am wrong because that is not the intended
interpretation. The prophets didn't make up this teaching; it came
from God, and we must accept it as such. This necessarily means that
our private interpretations must take a back seat to the meaning God
intended to convey. Certainly we must rely on our best efforts to
determine what this meaning is, but this very fact should make us
recognize that our private interpretations cannot be automatically
accepted as the infallible interpretation of God. We need to test the
spirits to see if they are from God. When the Holy Spirit speaks, he
says the same thing to all; he won't tell me that a passage means one
thing and tell you it means another. If the two of us come to
conflicting conclusions, we can't both be completely right. We know
our interpretations are reliable only when the Church as a whole
agrees on what Scripture means. This is how we know the doctrines of
the Trinity, the dual nature of Christ, etc. infallibly. These
matters are not up for private interpretation.
This is the reason Peter goes on to talk about the deceptiveness of
the false teachers. They preferred their own private interpretation
to the God-given teaching of the apostles. It is through such private
interpretation that the traditions of men, so soundly denounced in
Scripture, are started.
Tony
| 15soc.religion.christian |
Help! I've got a friend shopping for her first motorcycle. This is great!
Unfortunately, she needs at most a 28" seat. This is not great. So far,
the only thing we've found was an old and unhappy-looking KZ440.
So, it's time to tap the collective memory of all the denizens out there.
Anybody know of models (old models and used bikes are not a problem)
with a 28" or lower seat? And, since she has to make this difficult ( 8-) ),
she would prefer not to end up with a cruiser. So there's bonus points
for listing tiny standards.
I seem to remember a thread with a point similar to this passing through
several months ago. Did anybody keep that list?
Thanks!
--
Gregory Bean DoD #580
bean@ncar.ucar.edu "In fact, everything's got that big reverb sound..."
| 8rec.motorcycles |
In article <Apr.17.01.11.35.1993.2284@geneva.rutgers.edu> jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler) writes:
>
>[Descriptions of true and false obedience]
>
>Obedience is not solely a matter of compliance/refusal. The nature of
>the commands must also be taken into account; it is not enough to
>consider someone's compliance or refusal and then say whether they are
>"obedient" or "disobedient". You also have to take into consideration
>whether the commands are good or bad.
You ask where we are. I would echo that question. I'm not trying to be
contentious. But assuming that the Pope has universal jurisdiction
and authority, what authority do you rely upon for your decisions?
What prevents me from choosing ANY doctrine I like and saying that
Papal disagreement is an error that will be resolved in time?
This is especially true, since Councils of Bishops have basically
stood by the Pope.
It appears that much of what lies at the heart of this matter is
disagreements over what is tradition and Tradition, and also over
authority and discipline.
My question to the supporters of SSPX is this:
Is there ANY way that your positions with respect to church reforms
could change and be conformed to those of the Pope? (assuming that
the Pope's position does not change and that the leaders of SSPX
don't jointly make such choice.)
If not, this appears to be claiming infallible teaching authority.
If I adopt the view that "I'm NOT wrong, I CAN'T be wrong, and
there's NO WAY I'll change my mind, YOU must change yours", that
I've either left the Catholic Church or it has left me.
The Orthodox Church does not recognize papal authority/jurisdiction
viewing authority as present in each bishop, and in Ecumenical
Councils. We regard the subsequent development of the doctrines
regarding papal authority and jurisdiction to be a separation of
the Bishop of Rome from the Orthodox church. Without going into
the merits of the Great Schism, at least the Orthodox agree that
a split occurred, and don't paly what appear to be semantic games
like "He's the Pope, but we don't recognize that what he does
is effective...". Words aside, it appears to be a de facto split.
>So where are we? Are we in another Arian heresy, complete with weak
>Popes? Or are the SSPX priests modern Martin Luthers? Well, the only
>way to answer that is to examine who is saying what, and what the
>traditional teaching of the Church is.
We sould argue from now until the Second Coming about what the "real"
traditional teaching of the Church is. If this were a simple matter
East and West would not have been separated for over 900 years.
>Many Catholics will decide to side with the Pope. There is some
>soundness in this, because the Papacy is infallible, so eventually
>some Pope *will* straighten all this out.
I thought that the teaching magisterieum of the church did not allow
error in teachings regarding faith and morals even in the short term.`
I may be wrong here, I'm not Roman Catholic. :-)
What would be the effect of a Pope making an ex cathedra statement
regarding the SSPX situation? Would it be honored? If not, how
do you get around the formal doctrine of infallibility?
Again, I'm not trying to be contentions, I'm trying to understand.
Since I'm Orthodox, I've got no real vested interest in the outcome,
one way or the other.
>Schism is a superset of disobedience (refusal to obey a legitimate
>command). All schismatics are disobedient. But it's a superset, so
>it doesn't work the other way around: not all disobeyers are
>schismatics. The mere fact that the SSPX priests don't comply with
>the Holy Father's desires doesn't make them schismatics.
It does if the command was legitimate. SSPX does not view the
Pope's commands as legitimate. Why? This is a VERY slippery slope.
> But my problem with this is
>this: according to the traditional theology of Holy Orders, episcopal
>consecration does not confer jurisdiction. It only confers the power
>of Order: the ability to confect the Sacraments.
True enough.
> Jurisdiction must be
>conferred by someone else with the power to confer it (such as the
>Pope). The Society bishops, knowing the traditional theology quite
>well, take great pains to avoid any pretence of jurisdiction over
>anyone. They simply confer those Sacraments that require a bishop.
One could argue that they are establishing a non-geographic jurisdiction.
I don't know if that's even a concept or problem in Catholic circles.
Larry Overacker (llo@shell.com)
--
-------
Lawrence Overacker
Shell Oil Company, Information Center Houston, TX (713) 245-2965
llo@shell.com
| 15soc.religion.christian |
In article <47844@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
>In article <cjkuo.68.0@symantec.com>, cjkuo@symantec.com (Jimmy Kuo) writes:
> |> gt0523e@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael Andre Mule) writes:
> ....
> |> >>What is the maximum runs allowed before a stopper can get credit for a
> |> >>relief? i.e. if a stopper comes in with a 5 run lead does he getcredit
> |> >> with the save.
> |> >If you come in and pitch the last three innings,and your team was ahead
> |> >when you got out there and wins the game, you get a save.
> |> Sort'a correct. If you pitched at least 3 innings,entered with your team
> |> in the lead, was the pitcher when the game ended,the game was never tied
> |> during your stint, and your team won, you get a save.
> Well, the rulebook says that in the opinion of the scorer, you must have
> "pitched effectively" for your 3 innings - this save is not automatic,
> unlike the others.
Someone in SABR actually looked at these games a few years ago
and found that the official scorer awarded the save in every one
of the games - even those in which the pitcher had pitched badly
(allowing 4 or 5 runs).
seeing, hearing (my two sense worth)
john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
In article <93109.13404334AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET> <34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET> writes:
>I will be surprised if this post makes it past the censors,
>but here goes:
>
>Monday, 19 April, 1993 13:30 EDT
>
> MURDER MOST FOUL!!
>
>CNN is reporting as I write this that the ATF has ignited all
>the buildings of the Branch Dividian ranch near Waco, TX. The
>lies from ATF say "holes were made in the walls and 'non-lethal' tear
>gas pumped in". A few minutes after this started the whole thing went up.
>ALL buildings are aflame. NO ONE HAS ESCAPED. I think it obvious that
>the ATF used armored flame-thrower vehicles to pump in unlit
>napalm, then let the wood stove inside ignite it.
Actually if 'a few minutes' translates into 6 hours, you have it
right. BUT you (and I guess your single-source news agency CNN)
failed to mention the Davidians pouring kerosene all over and lighting it in plain
view.
>THIS IS MURDER!
Well, small-scale Jim Jones type suicide with fire instead of kool-aid.
>
>ATF MURDERERS! BUTCHERS!!
Sorry, guy, you got it wrong. ATF was pumping tear gas into the compound.
The Branch Davidians (going along with their apocolyptic faith) set their
own compound on fire killing all but 9 or so. No children survived.
>THIS IS GENOCIDAL MASS-SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE, INCLUDING CHILDREN!
Self-slaughter, anyway. I pity the children who were to young to be able
to make a conscious choice.
>I have predicted this from the start, but God, it sickens me to see
>it happen. I had hoped I was wrong. I had hoped that there was
>still some shred of the America I grew up with, and loved, left
>alive. I was wrong. The Nazis have won.
You are wrong. Thank goodness. I would suggest, however, that you take
a deep breath, and wait 30 minutes or so before posting. Also make sure
your facts are correct before making your allegations(sp.).
>I REPEAT, AS OF THIS TIME THERE ARE **NO SURVIVORS**!
You repeated wrong. There were 9.
>God help us all.
God help the Branch Davidians.
>PLEASE CROSSPOST -- DON'T LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THE SLAUGHTER OF THE CHILDREN!
NO DON'T!!!! THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH OF THIS CRAP BEING CROSSPOSTED ALL OVER
CREATION AS IT IS!!!!!!
--
<><><><><><><><><><> Personal opinions? Why, <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<> BRENT IRVINE <> yes. What did you think <> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu <>
<><><><><><><><><><> they were?....... <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
| 16talk.politics.guns |
Yeah, it seems toyota has always had a problem with those 2.2's
and sound. I know the celicas with em were pretty noisey, and
the MR2s were no exception. Now, about large displacement 4s
with bad noise.. I have a 90 Grand Am H.O. quad 4, and it
sounds really good, almost like a larger 6.. Now, Toyota
is coming out with an all-new Celica next year and the Mr2...
well who knows..
Later-
Chris
| 7rec.autos |
In article <1993Apr21.143910.5826@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>
pk115050@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
> My girlfriend is in pain from kidney stones. She says that because she
has no
> medical insurance, she cannot get them removed.
>
> My question: Is there any way she can treat them herself, or at least
mitigate
> their effects? Any help is deeply appreciated. (Advice, referral to
literature,
> etc...)
>
> Thank you,
>
> Dave Carvell
> pk115050@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
First, let me offer you my condolences. I've had kidney stones 4 times
and I know the pain she is going through. First, it is best that she see
a doctor. However, every time I had kidney stones, I saw my doctor and the
only thing they did was to prescribe some pain killers and medication for a
urinary tract infection. The pain killers did nothing for me...kidney stones
are extremely painful. My stones were judged passable, so we just waited it
out. However the last one took 10 days to pass...not fun. Anyway, if she
absolutely won't see a doctor, I suggest drinking lots of fluids and perhaps
an over the counter sleeping pill. But, I do highly suggest seeing a doctor.
Kidney stones are not something to fool around with. She should be x-rayed
to make sure there is not a serious problem.
Steve
| 13sci.med |
Has anyone use Snooper or MacEKG or any other similar diagnostic
software.Any comparisons/reviews on these products would be very much
appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your help
Cheers
--
==========================================================================
: Sir@office.acme.gen.nz :
: :
: Be thankfull that we dont get all the government we pay for! :
==========================================================================
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
In article <wrs.4180@wslack.UUCP>, wrs@wslack.UUCP (Bill Slack) writes:
|>
|> Various posts about shafties can't do wheelies:
|>
|> >: > No Mike. It is imposible due to the shaft effect. The centripital effects
|> >: > of the rotating shaft counteract any tendency for the front wheel to lift
|> >: > off the ground
|> >
|> >Good point John...a buddy of mine told me that same thing when I had my
|> >BMW R80GS; I dumped the clutch at 5,000rpm (hey, ito nly revved to 7 or so) and
|> >you know what? He was right!
|>
|> Uh, folks, the shaft doesn't have diddleysquatpoop to do with it. I can get
|> the front wheel off the ground on my /5, ferchrissake!
you may have been able to bounce the front up but not
actually do a "wheelie". see the shaft effect unloads
the rear susspension and effectivly loads the front.
this is why a shaft bike should accelerate if it starts
scraping in a corner......
laz
| 8rec.motorcycles |
In article <C5uEED.48D@apollo.hp.com>,
nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes...
>In article <1993Apr21.093914.1@woods.ulowell.edu> cotera@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
>>In article <1r17j9$5ie@sbctri.sbc.com>, netd@susie.sbc.com () writes:
>>> In article <20APR199301460499@utarlg.uta.edu> b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (stephen) writes:
>>>>For those who think David Koresh didn't have a solid structure,
>>>>or sound Biblical backing for his hour long tape broadcast,
>>>
>>> I don't think anyone really cares about the solid structure of his
>>> sermon. It's the deaths he's responsible for that concern most people.
>>
>>I assume you have evidence that he was responsible for the deaths?
>>
>>> Koresh was a nut, okay?
>>
>>Again, I'd like to see some evidence.
>
> Nut or not, he was clearly a liar. He said he would surrender after
> local radio stations broadcast his message, but he didn't. Then he
> said he would surrender after Passover, but he didn't.
The rest of the story seems to be that the agreement for the broadcast
was for prime-time, and that Koresh never even heard it played. Wasn't
even tuned in to the radio when it aired -- so no reason to come out.
If later they had given him a copy of the grossly twisted newswire
transcript -- I'm certain Koresh would think he was at the mercy of
evil itself.
As to coming out after Passover, wasn't that just one of the lawyer's
speculations Peter?
|
-- J --
|
| stephen
| 19talk.religion.misc |
I had the good luck to obtain an EICO dynamic conductance
tube tester for a song. Unfortunately, I was a little out of
key; the only thing wrong with it was an open meter movement.
Does anyone know where I can find either another meter movement
like it, a dead-but-not-the-meter-dead unit, or schematics
to specify the current scale of the meter movement? I can cut
and paste a more sensitive movement in if I can find what the
full scale current was. Or... is EICO still contactable?
The thing is a model 666 -nope, not a joke or any sort of snide
reference.
R.G.
| 12sci.electronics |
Hello everyone.
Last week I posted a similar question to alt.wedding. Now I come in
search of a deeper-level answer.
My fiance is Lutheran and I am Catholic. We plan on getting married in
her church because she is living there now and I plan on moving there
in a month or so. I called my Catholic priest to find out what I needed
to do in order for the marriage to be recognized by my church.
Needless to say that I have found that there is no "hard and fast" rule
when it comes to how the Catholic law for interfaith weddings is interpreted.
But I'm pretty sure that we CAN get married without too much problem; the
trick lies in the letter of dispensation.
But that is not why I am here....
What I'd like to know is:
What are the main differences between the Lutheran and Catholic religions?
My priest mumbled something about how the Eucharist was understood...
I have heard that if two religions combine soon, it would be these two.
Any help would be appreciated...
Thanks so much!
Bill
--
Bill Burns [ Internet: wdburns@mtu.edu ] Mac Network System Administrator
[ AppleLink: SHADOW ] Apple Student Rep, MTU
First we must band together as friends,
then mearcilessly crush our enemies into paste.
[We've had enough Catholic/Protestant arguments recently that I'm not
going to accept any renewals. I suggest responses via email, unless
they are clearly non-controversial. I would be happy to see positive
summaries of both important Catholic and Lutheran beliefs. Among
other things, they'd be useful for the FAQ collection. But I'm not up
for yet another battle. --clh]
| 15soc.religion.christian |
Hi. I would like to know if there is a seperate newgroup for
discussion of MS Test or Quality Assurance issues. Or, if not, what
newsgroup would be the appropriate one to use.
Does compuserve or microsoft themselves have a bbs people can call
for help on such?
Thanks. Please email response to djw@wang.com
D
--
Helmet Rules!
What's up doc?
djw@wang.com I have a .plan now ! and a clue. :)
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
In article <C5ztJu.FKx@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:
|>
|> Why is the NT tossed out as info on Jesus.
It isn't. It's usually treated as being about as reliable as
any other single, uncorroborated source of information about
a person for whom there is no other evidence.
|> I realize it is normally tossed out because it contains
|> miracles, but what are the other reasons?
What do you mean when you say it contains mirables. I just
opened mine and not a damned thing happened. Is there some
special way to do this?
jon.
| 19talk.religion.misc |
Who has experience with porting a GL-program to an Alpha APX
workstation with Kubota's Denali 3D-Graphic.
Is there any problems?
Is the real graphic-performance like a SGI R4000 Indigo XS24Z?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Juergen Fechter | Universitaet Tuebingen, WSI/GRIS |
| Office: [+49/0] (7071) 29-5464 | Auf der Morgenstelle 10, C9 |
| Fax: [+49/0] (7071) 29-5466 | W-7400 Tuebingen, Germany |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| email: fechter@gris.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| 1comp.graphics |
dps@nasa.kodak.com Pontificated:
>Simple logic arguments are folly. If you read the Bible you will see
>that Jesus made fools of those who tried to trick him with "logic".
Can you cite an example of this. Please post an answer as I
don't want to receive e-mail.
/~~~(-: James T. Green :-)~~~~(-: jgreen@oboe.calpoly.edu :-)~~~\
| "At all times and in all nations, |
| the priest has been hostile to liberty." |
| <Thomas Jefferson> |
| 0alt.atheism |
Could someone please tell me if a 1/4 decoder is the same as a 1 to 4
demultiplexer. I know how to link 2 of these to get an 8 output circuit,
but how do I link 5 of these to make a 1/16 multiplexer. Sorry if this
seems like a lame question, but I'm only a newbie to electronics, and I
have to do this circuit. Please make any mail as droolproof as possible.
Thanx,
Taro Ogawa
(u934132@student.canberra.edu.au)
| 12sci.electronics |
In article <1993Apr15.180644.25263@ll.mit.edu> jburnside@ll.mit.edu (jamie w burnside) writes:
>( Sure is alot harder to load on a trailer than the KDX200 was. ) I should
>be road legal tomorrow. I am ignoring the afforementioned concerns about
>the transmission and taking my chances.
There should be no worries about the trans.
>Being a reletively new reader, I am quite impressed with all the usefull
>info available on this newsgroup. I would ask how to get my own DoD number,
>but I'll probably be too busy riding ;-).
Does this count?
$ cat dod.faq | mailx -s "HAHAHHA" jburnside@ll.mit.edu (waiting to press
return...)
Later,
--
Chris BeHanna DoD# 114 1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com 1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer: Now why would NEC 1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway? I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.
| 8rec.motorcycles |
I'm working on an X11R5 application and have concerns regarding
standard colormaps.
The X11R5 documentation says: "Usually, a window manager creates
these colormaps." I wonder what window manager the writer had
in mind. Neither twm or mwm seem to create standard colormaps.
Of course, one can use xstdcmap to create standard colormaps.
However, xstdcmap doesn't seem to try very hard to avoid
conflicts with the default colormap. When I use standard
colormaps created by xstdcmap, the rest of my display goes black.
So it seems as if use of standard colormaps causes the very
problem standard colormaps are intended to avoid. Perhaps
if every application used standard colormaps, things would
be wonderful. But not many applications seem to use
standard colormaps.
Finally, the operation of the functions XmuGetColormapAllocation,
XmuStandardColormap, and XmuCreateColormap seem inconsistent
with the section 14.3 of the X11R5 XLIB documentation.
According to the section 14.3 of the X11R5 XLIB documentation (p. 436):
For GrayScale colormaps, only the colormap, red_max, red_mult, and
base_pixel members are defined. The other members are ignored.
To compute a GrayScale pixel value, use the following expression:
(gray * red_mult + base_pixel) &0xFFFFFFFF
XmuGetColormapAllocation, defined in mit/lib/Xmu/CmapAlloc.c, is
used by XmuLookupStandardColormap, defined in mit/lib/Xmu/LookupCmap.c
to select red_max, green_max, and blue_max values for the
call to XmuStandardColormap. When the RGB_GRAY_MAP property is
specified, XmuGetColormapAllocation sets red_max to 30% of the
total number of cells in the gray scale, sets green_max to 59%
of the total number, and sets blue_max ot 11% of the total number.
Referring to section 14.3, one would expect XmuGetColormapAllocation
to set red_max to the total number of cells in the gray scale.
When the RGB_GRAY_MAP property is specified, XmuStandardColormap,
defined in mit/lib/Xmu/StdCmap.c, sets red_mult, green_mult,
and blue_mult all equal to 1. Referring to section 14.3,
one would expect green_mult and blue_mult to be ignored.
When red_mult, green_mult, and blue_mult all equal 1,
XmuCreateColormap, defined in mit/lib/Xmu/CrCmap.c, constructs
a gray map. The sum of red_max, green_max, and blue_max gives
the maximum gray value. Referring to section 14.3, on would
expect red_max to give the maximum gray value.
| 5comp.windows.x |
To: All
Uniden Cordless Phone-Model XE 300. Perfect working condition, but
base station is missing its antenna (the antenna mount is intact).
$25, shipping included if prepaid.
DO NOT REPLY TO: dino.fiabane@pics.com. Your mail will bounce if
it is sent to that address. Instead, please reply only via
private E-Mail to: pics!dino.fiabane@twwells.com
(Since my home BBS can only handle personal messages through
E-Mail for the time being, any further replies from me to you
will also arrive via E-Mail instead of by way of a regular
newsgroup.)
Dino Fiabane, 150 Weston Drive, Cherry Hill, NJ 08003-2132
phone (609) 424-3836
* SLMR 2.1a * reply to: pics!dino.fiabane@twwells.com via E-Mail
----
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pics OnLine MultiUser System (609)753-2540 HST 609-753-1549 (V32) |
| Massive File Collection - Over 45,000 Files OnLine - 250 Newsgroups |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 6misc.forsale |
mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes:
>In article <Apr.4.19.42.08.1993.12176@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:
>>javier lopez is a better catcher than greg olson.
>But has there ever in the history of baseball been a 22-year-old (or
>younger) *rookie* catcher who compared favorably among all league
>catchers in terms of defense and brought a .247 bat? Wasn't it
>Sandy Alomar who was supposed to be that good in his rookie year?
>Not. Wasn't it Benito Santiago who was supposed to be that good
>in his rookie year? Not.
Hrm. Sandy Alomar, 24 year old rookie: 132 games, .290/.326/.418. Threw
out a few baserunners. Benito Santiago, 22 year old rookie: 146 games,
.300/.324/.467. He threw out a few baserunners, too. Ivan Rodriguez,
*20* year old rookies: 88 games, .264/.276/.354. Didn't exactly suck
behind the plate.
>I can continue this thread with the others mentioned, but you get
>the point. You and others seem to be so quick to dismiss the
>seasoned veterans in favor of the hot *young* rookies. Perhaps -
>just perhaps - the management team of the pennant-winning Braves
>knows something more than you do. And perhaps what they know is
>that very, very few 21- and 22-year old rookies come up to the majors
>and make an impact.
True. Which only makes it more important to realize when you have one of the
few. Lopez' season last year, adjusted to major league equivalencies, was
.306/.330/.472, 15 HRs. How bad does he have to be behind the plate for that
to not be better than Olson's .238/.316/.328?
Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
I would not admire hitting against [Ryne] Duren, because if he ever hit you
in the head you might be in the past tense.
- Casey Stengel
| 9rec.sport.baseball |
In article <1993May24.134245.1@vax1.bham.ac.uk> ivrissimtzis@vax1.bham.ac.uk writes:
>Turkey may be "more" underdeveloped if you wish, but that was not the issue.
Funny you should mention. That's the whole point 'paliks' invariably miss.
Source: 'United Nations, Human Development Report,' 1990.
Annual Output Per Person in Dollars Adjusted to Purchasing Power
Parity: Turkiye, Greece and Chile are in the same category. That
is, $3,000 - $5,999.
Source: 'International Economics: Theory and Policy' by Paul R.
Krugman and Maurice Obstfeld, Harper Collins Publishers,
1991, (second edition).
In terms of 'Annual Output Per Person in Dollars Adjusted to
Purchasing Power Parity,' Greece is in the same category with
Turkiye.
Indeed, Greek Governments have enormous problems to tackle. The
economy is in shambles, corruption is rampant, air pollution is
in outrageous dimensions, state-sponsored terrorism is the name
of the game and infrastructure is decaying. Another insightful
article in the New York Times (Sunday, April 7) exposes the dirty
linen of Greece, and describes her as the pariah of the European
Community. The article reports that ''...with un-European antics,
Greece uses the Community as a cash register. She squanders, and
at times even steals the European tax payers' money for political
featherbedding at home. The principal members of the Community
admit that it was a mistake to accept Greece to the European
Community.'' This affirmation is testimony to the fact that
notwithstanding her geographic location, Greece is un-European
in mentality and attitude.
Indeed, during the last 12 years, Turkiye registered a great
success with regard to economic restructuring. A sound economy,
ready to be integrated to the world economies, has emerged,
succeeding to the faltering one, witnessed in the '70s.
Just 12 years ago, Greece used to export double as much as
Turkiye did. Now inversely, Turkiye's overall exports exceed
by far that of Greece. As far as the tourism incomes are
concerned, we are witnessing the same phenomenon.
The governments in Turkiye have put a particular emphasis on
the infrastructure investments (rather than investing in
world terrorist organizations), thereby solving this issue
completely. Indeed, in the '70s, it was out of the question
to conduct a telephone call from Eastern Anatolia to the West.
Nowadays, this is not the case at all, and in a far remote
town, even in a village you may have, at any time, a long-distance
call to any given country.
However, the same could not be applied to Greece. In fact,
it is not so easy in Athens to have a trunk call to Germany
round the clock. And if you happen to be in the Greek islands,
then your chance will be pretty slim. Therefore, it would not
be an exaggeration to argue that Turkiye is far ahead of
Greece in regard to telecommunication facilities. Greece,
by virtue of its full membership, has enjoyed all advantages
of the EC, obtaining huge grants and extensive subsidies.
Turkiye, having no access at all to similar financial supports,
has nevertheless managed to create a better economy which
enabled it to produce consecutive current accounts surplus
over the last two years. As such, Turkiye deserves to be the
only country in its region having permanent current accounts
surplus.
Serdar Argic
'We closed the roads and mountain passes that
might serve as ways of escape for the Turks
and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
(Ohanus Appressian - 1919)
'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists
a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920)
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
In article <1qmugcINNpu9@gap.caltech.edu> hal@cco.caltech.edu (Hal Finney) writes:
>The key question is whether non-Clipper encryption will be made illegal.
>
It seems pretty obvious that it will be made illegal if VERY LOUD NOISE is
not made about this IMMEDIATELY to Congress and the House!
>It looks like the worst nightmares raised by Dorothy Denning's proposals
>are coming true. If the government continues on this course, I imagine
>that we will see strong cryptography made illegal. Encryption programs
>for disk files and email, as well as software to allow for encrypted
>voice communications, will be distributed only through the
>"underground". People will have to learn how to hide the fact that
>they are protecting their privacy.
I don't know what's worse - the waste of money, or the fact that (in SPITE
of all Clinton's rhetoric to the contrary) this is a feeble attempt by
a large group of bored intelligence bureaucrats to justify their currently
useless jobs. Clinton said he was going to trim the fat from the government.
This doesn't look very dietetic to me!
As I said before in this group: drug dealing and terrorism both tend to
be international crimes which are not going to cease if the US starts to
regulate encryption. The drug dealers and terrorists will simply go to
other countries to communicate their plans, and will still carry them out
here and/or wherever else. This is not the solution to the problem.
They try to invent a new problem by saying we "need" encryption. I guess
it's a good thing Bill Gates isn't a 4-star general or we would all "need"
our own copies of MS-DOS too, right?
Und vee haff vays uff findink out iff you are usink DOCTOR DOS!!
>It's shocking and frightening to see that this is actually happening here.
Our health care and education systems are in the toilet and they come up
with THIS pearl. If this goddamned government doesn't get a clue real quick
and start trying to repair the infrastructure of the country rather than
inventing someone to blame, Germany and Japan are going to eat the US alive,
and we will deserve it. It's not like there's any shortage of REAL problems
to solve, guys!
A Clipper chip is really going to help the homeless! A Clipper chip is
really going to help educate the children in the ghettos of our cities!
Just think of the generation gap that can be developed when they rehire
DoD engineer dad to work on Clipper chips that will be used to decrypt
slightly rebellious adolescent hacker son's naughty GIF files! I can see
the shitcom already.
If that wasn't a forged post or a sick joke, I'm popping that Dead Kennedys
tape into the car stereo and tearing ass to Canada. Clinton on White Horse
is near. It's the suede/denim secret police! They have come for your uncool
niece! Don't worry it's only a phone...shit, I knew I should have gotten
some of those "consent to monitoring" stickers they keep on Autovon phones
when I had the chance. I should have known I'd need them in civilian life.
--
redsonja@olias.linet.org \\\RS/// Self possession is 9/10 of the law.
Alien: "We control the laws of nature!" | "How come when it's human, it's an
Joel: "And you still dress that way?" | abortion, but when it's a chicken,
(MST3K#17 - Gamera vs Guiron) | it's an omelet?" - George Carlin
| 11sci.crypt |
ipser@solomon.technet.sg (Ed Ipser) writes:
>There is a deeper reason. Taxes, by their very nature, are un-American.
>One need only look at the birth and history of the US to see this fact.
So that's why the 13 newly independent states all had tax systems...
--Tim Smith
| 18talk.politics.misc |
In article <15416@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
#That describes some straights -- and nearly all homosexual males.
Can you provide any evidence that doesn't ahve massive selection
effects?
No, I thought not.
Just slander on your part.
--
-Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia
USPS Mail: Astronomy Department, Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475 USA
Internet: gsh7w@virginia.edu
UUCP: ...!uunet!virginia!gsh7w
| 18talk.politics.misc |
In article <1993Apr25.154449.1@aurora.alaska.edu> nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes:
|
|Better idea for use of NASA Shuttle Astronauts and Crew is have them be found
|lost in space after a accident with a worm hole or other space/time glitch..
|
|Maybe age Jemison a few years (makeup and such) and have her as the only
>survivour of a failed shuttle mission that got lost..
Of course that asumes the mission was able to launch :-)
| 14sci.space |
EC>It was called the Mac XL when Sculley came on board. I bought one at
a close-out place after the Mac Plus and the awesome 20-meg serial hard
drive were introduced. To pacify people who bought the XL and only found
it was discontinued within a year, Apple sent people like I a letter
saying for $1500 and the XL, they would give me a 1-meg Mac Plus with
the HD20.
The Lisa was originally introduced in 1980 or '81, I forget now, and
sold for $9995 with 2 400k floppy drives and 1Mb memory. It didn't do
too well. <grin>
Before becoming the Mac XL it was called a Lisa 2/10. It had a built in
10meg HD by this time and was expandable to 2Mb RAM although that's not
what the 2 in 2/10 stood for. It was the second coming of the Lisa. It
also predated the Mac Plus AND the 20Mb serial HD by quite a few months.
For a short while it WAS the power users system.
---
. DeLuxe. 1.26b #956s . MicroFrame: The BEST in Price and Performance!
. QNet3. . The PipeLine : Atlanta, GA : Echo Mail From Around The World
----
| HAL 9000 BBS: QWK-to-Usenet gateway | Four 14400 v.32bis dial-ins |
| FREE Usenet mail and 200 newsgroups! | PCBoard 14.5aM * uuPCB * Kmail |
| Call +1 313 663 4173 or 663 3959 +--------------------------------+
| Member of EFF, ASP, ASAD * 1500MB disk * Serving Ann Arbor since 1988 |
| 4comp.sys.mac.hardware |
What jetting do you recommend for a ZX-11 (with standard mufflers) instead of
the standard one (idle-38, main-155).
Cheers.
--
Manuel Arrevola Velasco ||| e-mail: manolo@taf.fundesco.es |||
Fundesco ZX-11
Calle Alcala, 61 DR-600-S
28014-Madrid DoD #1033
Tel. 341-4351214 "Don't waste your time, express it"
| 8rec.motorcycles |
I'm trying to compile xftp which uses the Xw widget set and I'm having
problems. We're using Motif and X11R5 and it seems that my version of the
Xw stuff was only ported to R3. Are there patches out to port this to R5
(or a newer port altogether)??
Or perhaps a newer port of xftp for use with R5??
Thanks in advance.
--
Jesse W. Asher (901)762-6000
Varco-Pruden Buildings
6000 Poplar Ave., Suite 400, Memphis, TN 38119
Internet: jessea@vpbuild.vp.com UUCP: vpbuild!jessea
| 5comp.windows.x |
Original to: wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM
G'day wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM
20 Apr 93 18:17, wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM wrote to All:
wAC> wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson), via Kralizec 3:713/602
wAC> The Apollo program cost something like $25 billion at a time when
wAC> the value of a dollar was worth more than it is now. No one would
wAC> take the offer.
If we assume 6% inflation since 1969, that $25B would be worth about $100B
GD reckon a moon mission today could cost only $10B. Thats a factor of ten
reduction in cost. It might be possible to reduce that number futher by
using a few shortcuts ( Russian rockets?). Asuming it gets built, I think
the Delta Clipper could very well achive the goal.
ta
Ralph
--- GoldED 2.41+
* Origin: VULCAN'S WORLD - Sydney Australia (02) 635-1204 3:713/6
(3:713/635)
| 14sci.space |
In article <1993Apr15.100452.16793@csx.cciw.ca> u009@csx.cciw.ca (G. Stewart Beal) writes:
>In article <120466@netnews.upenn.edu> jhaines@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jason Haines) writes:
>>
>> I was wondering if people had any good uses for old
>>256k SIMMs. I have a bunch of them for the Apple Mac
>>and I know lots of other people do to. I have tried to
>>sell them but have gotten NO interest.
>>
>> So, if you have an inovative use (or want to buy
>>some SIMMs 8-) ), I would be very interested in hearing
>>about it.
>>
>One of the guys at work takes 20 of them, uses cyano-acrylate glue to make
>five four-wide "panels" then constructs a box, with bottom, to use as a
>pencil holder.
>
Or, if you've got some entreprenuerial (sp?) spirit, get a cheapy
clear plastic box, mount the simm inside, and sell it as a 'Pet SIMM'!
I'm sure there are *plenty* of suckers out there who would go
for it!
aaron
| 12sci.electronics |
In article <1993Apr5.183555.20163@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>
hasan@McRCIM.McGill.EDU writes:
>
> In article <4805@bimacs.BITNET>, ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
writes:
> |>
> |> Hassan and some other seemed not to be a ware that Jews celebrating
on
> |> these days Thje Passover holliday the holidy of going a way from the
> |> Nile.
> |> So if one let his imagination freely work it seemed beter to write
> |> that the Zionist drean is "from the misisipi to the Nile ".
>
> the question is by going East or West from the misisipi. on either
choice
> you would loose Palestine or Broklyn, N.Y.
>
> I thought you're gonna say fromn misisipi back to the misisipi !
>
Nonononnononono....its "From the Nile to the Nile.....the Long way!" ;-)
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM: A COSTLY AND DANGEROUS MISTAKE
by Theodore J. O'Keefe
HARD BY THE WASHINGTON MONUMENT, within clear view of the Jefferson
Memorial, an easy stroll down the Mall to the majestic Lincoln Memorial,
has arisen, on some of the most hallowed territory of the United States of
America, a costly and dangerous mistake. On ground where no monument yet
marks countless sacrifices and unheralded achievements of Americans of all
races and creeds in the building and defense of this nation, sits today a
massive and costly edifice, devoted above all to a contentious and false
version of the ordeal in Europe during World War II, of non-American
members of a minority, sectarian group. Now, in the deceptive guise of
tolerance, the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum begins a propaganda
campaign, financed through the unwitting largess of the American taxpayer,
in the interests of Israel and its adherents in America.
How did the federal government allow the creation of such a
monstrosity? What is its meaning for American policy and for American
values? And what must the American people do to regain control of the land
their servants in Washington handed over to a foreign interest and to
establish an enterprise thereon, whether a museum or otherwise, informed by
and conducted according to American principles and interests?
[Photograph captioned, "The five-story, $150 million US Holocaust Memorial
Museum in Washington, D.C. was built and is operated by a taxpayer-funded
federal agency. In the foreground is the museum's six-sided "Hall of
Remembrance."
ORIGINS
In the late 1970s, during the presidency of James Earl "Jimmy" Carter,
a propaganda campaign to promote the "Holocaust," the alleged systematic
slaughter of some 6 million Jews by the Germans during World War II, was
organized and carried out from Hollywood and New York. As Benjamin Meed, an
important functionary of the council which controls the Holocaust museum,
wrote in 1990:
Almost a dozen years ago, a new phenomena [sic] developed. The
Holocaust was introduced into schools, colleges, and universities.
Television broadcast programs on the Holocaust and millions of
Americans watched them. Soon, Americans took great interest in the
lessons of the Holocaust, its uniqueness and its universal message.(1)
Why the urgency of this campaign? Two factors were paramount: first,
the beginnings, more than three decades after the end of World War II, of
an objective scholarly assessment of the facts of the alleged German policy
to exterminate European Jewry.(2)
Second, the need to justify Zionist theory and practice in the face of
unprecedented international resistance to Israeli intransigence (including
the famous UN General Assembly Resolution which equated Zionism with
racism), and to defend Israel's aggressive policy under the leadership of
the former terrorist, Prime Minister Menachem Begin.(3)
THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL COUNCIL
In 1978 President Carter, his administration beleaguered at home and
abroad, succumbed to pressure from the new "Holocaust" lobby (and thus
America's influential Israel-first minority) by creating, through executive
order, the President's Commission on the Holocaust. Two years later, on
October 7, 1988, Congress passed--unanimously--a law establishing the
United States Holocaust Memorial Council, charged principally with
constructing and overseeing the operation of "a permanent living memorial
to the victims of the holocaust" and with providing "for appropriate ways
for the Nation to commemorate the Days of Remembrance, as an annual,
national, civic commemoration of the Holocaust..."(4)
A priceless tract of public land was turned over to the council, and,
after years of costly delay (during which the U.S. Holocaust Memorial
Council's budget swelled from $2.5 million to over $18 million a year), the
U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum has been completed and readied for opening
on April 22, 1993.
A SECTARIAN, ALIEN AGENDA
The Holocaust Memorial Council, besides soliciting tens of millions of
dollars in tax-deductible donations to finance the Holocaust museum, has
busied itself with promoting an agenda of unalloyed support for minority,
Zionist ends.
The membership of the council, a U.S. federal agency, has been
overwhelmingly Jewish since its founding in 1980. The council's two
different chairmen--Elie Wiesel and Harvey Meyerhoff--have both been
committed to the support of the state of Israel, and the chairs of the
council's most important committees have been likewise Jewish and Zionist.
The chief fundraiser for the Holocaust museum, Miles Lerman, was
formerly American vice chairman for the State of Israel Bonds Organization,
promoting tax-free investment in a country which receives by far the
largest amount of U.S. foreign aid per year. Working the same wealthy
Jewish Americans he has long dealt with in his fundraising for Israel,
Lerman has helped raise nearly $160 million in tax-deductible
contributions. The biggest donors have been rewarded by having various
components of the museum named for them, e.g. the Wexler Learning Center.
Nor is erecting and operating the Holocaust Memorial Museum the only
function with which the Holocaust Memorial Council has been charged.
Another of its duties is to commemorate the Days of Remembrance for Victims
of the Holocaust, which Congress has raised to "an annual, national, civic
commemoration of the Holocaust." Like the Israeli Yom Hashoah (Day of the
Holocaust), on which they are based, the Days of Remembrance are dated
according to the lunar Hebrew calendar, and thus like Passover or Chanukah,
fluctuate from year to year. These foreign days of lamentation are
currently celebrated, under the flag of the republic, to prayers and chants
in Hebrew, in governmental settings from the Capital Rotunda to city halls,
across the land. Need it be stated that no group of American victims of
persecution, let alone another foreign group, enjoys any such federally
mandated and tax-supported day, or days, of recognition?
THE HOLOCAUST MUSEUM'S ONE-SIDED "HISTORY"
Although the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council during its early years
made noises about recognizing the ordeals of non-Jews during World War II,
by every indication from advance literature published by the council, the
U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum is relentlessly Judeocentric. While,
according to a preliminary ground plan of the permanent exhibit, here and
there are nods to non-Jewish groups oppressed by the German National
Socialists (never to groups victimized by Germany's enemies, above all by
Stalin's USSR), the larger holocaust of World War II, which claimed an
estimated 75 to 80 million lives around the world, is ignored in preference
to the Jewish ordeal. Thus, to cite just one telling example, the museum's
"Life before the Holocaust" exhibit refers strictly to *Jewish* life before
the Holocaust.(5)
Where, in fact, non-Jews figure in the Museum, they figure largely as
villains: the Germans and their allies and collaborators; the Western
Allies, including America, who refused to accept a large immigration before
the war; the American political and military leaders who refused to
authorize costly bombing raids on the Auschwitz "gas chambers."
RED LIBERATORS?
The museum's message that support for Jews is the sole measure of
decency during World War II leads to anomalies which, in an American museum
raised on ground hallowed to the principles of liberty on which this
republic is based, can only be called shocking. That the victims of World
War II atrocities by the Allies--massacres such as the fire-bombing of
Tokyo and Dresden, the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Soviet
slaughter of their Polish prisoners at Katyn, the mass rapes carried out by
the Red Army at the war's end--receive no mention is deplorable. But the
museum's treatment of the armed forces which defended Stalin's savage
Soviet tyranny is nothing short of grotesque.
In the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, Communists appear only in the
guise of "resistance fighters" and "liberators." For example, the
submachine gun and false papers of Samuel Weissberg, a Communist Party
member who rose to high rank in a Communist guerrilla group in North
France, are on honored display, no less precious a relic than the standard
heaps of shoes and hair, in the museum's permanent exhibit.(6)
Even more unsettling is the honor given to Stalin's notorious Red
Army, which compiled a bloody and shameful record of atrocities across
Europe during, and after, the war. As the U.S. Holocaust Memorial
Council's newsletter fulsomely puts it, "Flags will hang in the museum to
honor the millions of Soviet soldiers who drove Nazi forces westward and
who were the first Allied forces to liberate and publicize the existence of
the camps." In the words of Council chairman Harvey Meyerhoff, these
martial banners of the Red tyranny have a single association: "Much more
than simply wartime memorabilia, these military artifacts are a significant
contribution to memory, one that will remind future generations of the
pivotal role Soviet forces played in defeating Nazism..."(7)
What must the millions of Americans originating or descending from the
European nations--Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania,
Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, [former] Yugoslavia--
for which the Red "military artifacts" symbolized invasion, tyranny,
oppression and persecution of religion think as they see the fierce armies
of *their* persecutors hailed as "liberators"?
ISRAEL IN THE MUSEUM
Just as one might guess from the circumstance that the museum's
director, Yeshayahu Weinberg, and the head of its "Learning Center,"
Yechiam Halevy, were brought in from Israel, the museum's treatment of the
state of Israel is adulatory. An emotive tribute to the founding of Israel
is an integral part of the exhibition. That the establishment of Israel,
and its expansion in subsequent wars, has meant colonial occupation and
oppression for millions of the land's native Palestinians, and
dispossession and exile for millions more, goes unmentioned--another
grotesquery in an American museum supposed to instruct in the dangers of
intolerance and disregard of human rights. As for the momentous
collaboration between Hitler's German state and the Jewish Agency in the
1930s, which through the Ha'avara Agreement enabled the transfer of vital
capital and the influx of tens of thousands of highly skilled Jewish
immigrants to Palestine, that is passed over in utter silence.(8)
"HISTORICAL CORRECTNESS"
The Holocaust Museum's skewed history is not simply a matter of one-
sidedness and omission. The museum has further committed itself to a fixed
and final interpretation of the surprisingly scanty and sometimes suspect
evidence for a German policy of annihilating European Jewry, largely in gas
chambers, in numbers approaching 6 million. This despite a considerable
body of research and scholarship that has arisen over the past two decades
in many lands, and which contests, by academic means, the substance of the
Holocaust "extermination thesis."(9)
That the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council is aware of the work of the
revisionists is clear: The council's literature is replete, not with
substantive refutations of revisionist scholarship, but with slander and
polemic. To cite one characteristic example, the _U.S. Holocaust Memorial
Museum Newsletter_ of May, 1992 featured a front-page attack on Holocaust
revisionism by Professor Deborah Lipstadt of Occidental College in which
the author decried the revisionists for producing material that looked
scholarly, then lauded the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum as "among the
most efficacious ways" of "combating this pernicious trend," *while
neglecting to specify a single error of revisionist scholarship.*(10)
The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council recognizes that there is a
historical debate on the holocaust, but takes official notice of the
dissenting position only to attack it. That an American institution,
supported by the taxes of all Americans, should commit itself to inflexible
historical orthodoxy--in the service of a single American minority--is an
intolerable imposition on our First Amendment rights, as well as a mockery
of the Western, and American, ideal of objective scholarship.
A CENTER FOR EDUCATION?
U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council Chairman Harvey Meyerhoff has stated:
"The museum is primarily an educational institution."(11) From the
council's own literature, however, it is clear what Meyerhoff means by
education. The "role-playing" for children as well as adults who visit the
museum (visitors are to be issued "identity cards" bearing the name and
alleged fate of various Holocaust victims); the high-tech computer and
video effects and the recordings of speech and music which augment the
museum's tendentiously described artifacts; and the museum's goal, as
proclaimed by its Zionist fundraising chairman, Miles Lerman, of ensuring
that "Children in Dubuque, families in Tucson, and schoolteachers in
Atlanta will learn the history and the lessons of Auschwitz as thoroughly
as they learn the history of their own communities"--all these show that
the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum is a *propaganda* enterprise that seeks
to indoctrinate all Americans in a uniquely and partisanly Jewish (and
Zionist) version of not merely the past, but the present and the
future.(12)
THE AMERICAN RESPONSE
What is the American response to a partisan museum constructed in a
place solemnly consecrated to the heroes and the values of our republic, to
be lavishly operated with taxpayer dollars at a time when, even in our
country's capital, thousands sleep homeless in the shadow of our national
monuments? What is the American response to an ambitious propaganda agenda
that aims to impose a sectarian "Holocaust remembrance" in schools where
our children cannot pray, in town halls and federal buildings from which
the religious symbols of the majority are banned in the name of freedom of
worship?
Over two centuries ago, Thomas Jefferson wrote: "To compel a man to
furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he
disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."(13)
Nearly 150 years ago, Abraham Lincoln said: "I insist that if there is
*anything* which it is the duty of the *whole people* to never entrust to
any hands but their own, that thing is the preservation and perpetuity of
their own liberties and institutions."(14)
The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, and the council which runs it, as
agencies of the government in which the American people is sovereign, must
be removed from the special interest that now controls it.
The scope and purpose of the Museum must be expanded, from its present
one-sided emphasis on foreign Jewish sufferings, real and imagined, in
Europe during the 1930s and 1940s to a compassionate yet realistic concern
for *all* victims, but above all for *American* victims, of historic
injustice.
The Museum must be made a place where Americans of every heritage, and
scholars of every viewpoint, may gather, educate, and be educated, without
accusation and in the absence of propaganda. Until it is, the men and
women who founded and built and suffered and fought and died for America,
of every race, nationality and creed, will rest uneasy.
NOTES
1. _The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter_
(Washington, D.C.), August, 1990, "Survivors Play Major Role in
Establishing the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum," p.1. Meed is president of
the American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors, and chairman of the U.S.
Holocaust Memorial Council's Content and Days of Remembrance committees.
2. In l976, Prof. Arthur Butz's book _The Hoax of the Twentieth
Century: The Case Against the Presumed Extermination of European Jewry_ was
first published in England; in November of 1978 Prof. Robert Faurisson's
article "The Problem of the Gas Chambers" was published in the Paris daily
_Le Monde_. Butz has commented on the simultaneous and independent
appearance of a variety of earlier academic criticisms of the wartime
propaganda version of Jewry's ordeal in "The International Holocaust
Controversy," _The Journal of Historical Review_, Spring, 1980, pp. 5-22.
3. By Resolution of the UN General Assembly on Novembe 10, 1975,
Zionism was condemned as "a form of racism and racial discrimination."
4. Public Law 96-388, 1, October 7, 1980, 94 Stat. 1547.
5. Statements regarding the museum's permanent exhibit, except where
otherwise noted, are derived from the floor plan and photographs in _United
States Holocaust Memorial Museum_, a brochure published by the USHMC in
Washington 1991.
6. _U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter_, Sept., 1991, "French
Resistance Fighter's Weapon Will Help Tell Story of Underground Movement."
p.4
7. _U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter_, fall. 1992, "Russian
Embassy Presents Flags of Liberating Units to Museum," p.6.
8. For the most complete account of relations between the Nazis and
the Zionists, see Francis Nicosia, _The Third Reich and the Palestine
Question_, Austin: University of Texas, 1985
9. The most complete survey of holocaust revisionist writings to date
is Carlo Mattogno's "The Myth of the Extermination of the Jews--Part II,"
in _The Journal of Historical Review_ (fall, 1988), pp. 261-302.
10. _U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter_, May, 1992, "Denying
the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth," p.6.
11. _U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Newsletter_, November, 1991,
"Wexner Family donates $5 Million to Fund Interactive Learning Center,"
p.1.
12. The "identity cards" and other features of the museum are
described in the brochure cited in note 5 above; Lerman's statement was
included in a fundraising letter sent by the museum to potential Jewish
contributors in 1991.
13. From "A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom," 1779, in
_Jefferson: Magnificent Populist_, edited by Martin Larson, Greenwich,
Conn.: Devin-Adair, 1981. p.319.
14. "Speech at Peoria, Illinois." October 16, 1854, in _The American
Intellectual Tradition_, Vol. 1, edited by David Hollinger and Charles
Capper, New York: Oxford University Press, 1989, p. 382.
___________________________________________________________________________
Theodore J. O'Keefe is an editor with the Institute for Historical
Review. Educated at Harvard University, he has studied history and
literature on three continents, and has published numerous articles on
historical and political subjects.
___________________________________________________________________________
The IHR publishes numerous revisionist books, tapes and other
materials, as well as the bi-monthly _Journal of Historical Review_. Send
$2 for a complete catalog and selection of literature. More copies of this
leaflet are available, postpaid, at the following prices:
10 copies, $2
50 copies, $5
100 copies or more, 8 cents each
INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW
P.O. Box 2739
Newport Beach, CA 92659
-=End
-Dan Gannon
--
dgannon@techbook.COM Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-0636 (1200/2400, N81)
| 17talk.politics.mideast |
barr@pop.psu.edu (David Barr) writes:
>Did you install the sunkbd patch? It's in the contrib directory on export.
>All the keys on my keyboard send events properly, except the following:
>The End, PageUp, PageDown on the 6-key cluster aren't recognized.
>Even the compose key works. (Though I can't seem to get the composed
>characters in an xterm to get passed.)
>Anyone have a fix for the last two?
fix the table in .../X11R5/mit/server/ddx/sun/ or
use xmodmap(1).
put
stty pass8; setenv LC_CTYPE iso_8859_1; setenv LESSCHARSET latin1
in your .login. the first prevents the stripping of bit 7.
the second sets the locale. the third makes less(1) show the character
instead of the octal representation.
rj
--
__________________________________________________
Robert Joop
rj@{rainbow.in-berlin,fokus.gmd,cs.tu-berlin}.de
s=joop;ou=fokus;ou=berlin;p=gmd;a=dbp;c=de
| 5comp.windows.x |
In article 28833@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au, darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:
#In <1993Apr14.143121.26376@bmw.mayo.edu> vdp@mayo.edu (Vinayak Dutt) writes:
#>So instead of calling it interest on deposits, you call it *returns on investements*
#>and instead of calling loans you call it *investing in business* (that is in other words
#>floating stocks in your company).
#
#No, interest is different from a return on an investment. For one
#thing, a return on an investment has greater risk, and not a set return
#(i.e. the amount of money you make can go up or down, or you might even
#lose money). The difference is, the risk of loss is shared by the
#investor, rather than practically all the risk being taken by the
#borrower when the borrower borrows from the bank.
#
But is it different from stocks ? If you wish to call an investor in stocks as
a banker, well then its your choice .....
#>Relabeling does not make it interest free !!
#
#It is not just relabeling, as I have explained above.
It *is* relabeling ...
Also its still not interest free. The investor is still taking some money ... as
dividend on his investment ... ofcourse the investor (in islamic *banking*, its your
so called *bank*) is taking more risk than the usual bank, but its still getting some
thing back in return ....
Also have you heard of junk bonds ???
---Vinayak
-------------------------------------------------------
vinayak dutt
e-mail: vdp@mayo.edu
standard disclaimers apply
-------------------------------------------------------
| 0alt.atheism |
Can somebody help me out of this.....
I just installed the Version 104 of McAFree anti-virus program and when i
tried to scan the entire hard disk, i got the message of "Sorry, I can't open
xxxx" for a couple of files, including the WScan104.exe. This didn't happen
before (in previous version) nor appear on my friend's machine.
Thankx....
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
In article <1qpvj2$dfp@fitz.TC.Cornell.EDU>,
william@fractl.tn.cornell.edu said in response to Dave Borden:
> You selfish little bastard. Afraid you might have to sacrafice
> somthing for your country. What someone not approve a lone for you ?
> To bad. What is immoral is: people like you and the current president
> who don't have any idea why this country still exists after 200+
> years.
William: If the reason that this country still stands after 200+ years
is that it uses military conscription to force young men to fight for
causes that they don't believe in strongly enough to volunteer for
military service in support of, then perhaps the fact that the country
is still standing is not good news...
-- William December Starr <wdstarr@athena.mit.edu>
| 18talk.politics.misc |
Tony G. Wu (gtonwu@Uz.nthu.edu.tw) wrote:
> Hello.
> I purchased a video card called ET-4000 true color card which
> can provide about 1700K colors. But the question is I can't find
> the corresponding drivers for windows 3.1 , I am now using 65k
> colors driver for win31. It works fine , but I think it will be
> better if I use 1700k driver. So, please tell me whether such a
> driver is available !
> Thanks in advance.
I am sorry. My card can display about 17000K colors not 1700K colors.
I hope some one could answer my question !
Thanks.
--
===================== ( Forever 23, Michael Jordan.) =====================
Tony G. Wu gtonwu@uz.nthu.edu.tw
CAE/Rheology Lab. NTHU. tony@che.nthu.edu.tw
| 2comp.os.ms-windows.misc |
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
_____________________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release April 20, 1993
PRESS BRIEFING
BY GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS
The Briefing Room
12:36 P.M. EDT
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know, the President is going
to come out at 1:15 p.m. With your indulgence, I think what we'd
like to do is have the President award the National Teacher's Award
first and then have the teacher leave, or whatever, and then he'll
make a statement on Waco and take a couple questions. So if we can
just hold off going live and all that until that's done, it probably
will work out a lot better.
Q If you'll give us the time. That's the problem.
Q We've got a two-minute warning problem.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, it is a problem. It's about
1:15 p.m.
Q The teacher would walk off and then --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's -- I'm just trying
to work this out here. I think that's the best way to handle it.
Q Can I ask you a series of questions about the way
the President handled the notifications yesterday?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Sure.
Q Did you, for instance, talk to the Justice
Department about who would come out and discuss what had happened in
Waco and whether it should be the Attorney General or the President?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Why don't we just take a step even
farther back from that and look at the whole sequence of events on
the contact between the Justice Department and the White House. As
you know and as we've said, the President spoke with the Attorney
General on Sunday, Sunday afternoon. They had a good discussion,
about 15 minutes. The Attorney General informed the President of
what she wanted to do. He raised no objections. Obviously, she had
the implicit authority from the President to go forward. He raised
no objections. She went forward. They had a discussion of a general
nature about the incident.
Again, yesterday morning around 11:00 a.m., the
President spoke with the Attorney General again. They had a brief
discussion over what was happening in Waco. As you know, this was
before the fire broke out at the compound. And I think that was why
there was some -- just some confusion. I think that she was
confusing in her minds before and after the fire, not the actual day
when they spoke.
Then there was a number of contacts at a number of
different levels in the White House yesterday afternoon between the
Justice Department and the White House. They were informing us of
their decisions, what they would like to do. There was an FBI
briefing in Waco. The Attorney General had her press conference.
The President then issued a statement after that.
Frankly, yesterday afternoon, you know, there was a fair
amount of confusion over exactly what was happening on the ground in
Waco, and I think that we wanted to be very careful not to have the
President say anything until we had a much better sense of what was
actually happening on the ground. Once we were fairly clear on what
was happening on the ground in Waco, the President issued a
statement. He spoke with the Attorney General again yesterday
evening.
Q At what hour was that?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It was quite late. I believe it
was after he returned from the Holocaust Museum. He took a tour of
the Holocaust Museum last night.
Q And he went out to dinner.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I believe briefly. Yes, he went to
dinner and then he spoke with the Attorney General last night. I
don't know the exact time; I think it was relatively late. And he
just said, I think as Dee Dee has reported, that he just wanted to
tell her that he thought she handled a difficult situation very well,
that she did a good job in a tough situation, and that she should try
and get some sleep. He then, again, spoke with her this morning
about the follow-up in Waco, and about what they're going to do this
afternoon. As you know, the President will have an announcement to
make at 1:15.
Q Did he ever talk with Webb Hubbell yesterday, last
night, or this morning?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not to my knowledge, no.
Q Was Webb Hubbell the point man for the White House?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Webb Hubbell is the general White
House Liaison and several people talked to Webb. The Attorney
General was running the operation.
Q Did he tell her that she should sleep well, that
she had done a good job? Or he just tell her that she should get
some sleep?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think sleep well -- done a good
job -- I don't know the exact words. I think that sounds right.
Q I mean, sleep well has implications as to
conscience and whether she should feel badly about it or not.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I mean, I think everybody
feels badly when you have a situation when --
Q I understand that, but whether the issue of blame
is brought up in that phraseology.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's the spirit -- no, it
has nothing to do with that. The spirit with which it was offered
was that the entire administration and certainly the Attorney General
had to face a very difficult decision, a very difficult situation
yesterday. And that he thought that she had handled it well, as best
as she could and --
Q Well, does he think it was mishandled?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: -- it was just speaking of warm
words to a friend.
Q Does he think the situation was mishandled?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President --
Q In retrospect?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President stands by the
decisions of the law enforcement agencies, the decisions of the
Attorney General. He accepts full responsibility. At the same time,
I think that we all want to look to the future and figure out what
exactly happened, do a full review, and make sure we do what we can
to make sure this doesn't happen -- this kind of thing doesn't happen
again, or at least we know how to handle it.
Q How much did he know about what she was going to go
ahead with? I know that she made the case to him -- explained --
outlined the case for action. Did she say to him on Sunday precisely
what action?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think it was specific
operational detail as to what was going to happen. I think that they
had a general discussion about the action, about the advisability of
action. I think, as she noted, he asked a few general questions just
trying to get a sense of how things were considered. But it wasn't
minute-by-minute detail of how the operation --
Q Well, was it, "we are going in." Is it, "we're
going to use tear gas"? I mean, what?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I believe it was that we want to go
in and take some action that would increase the pressure on those in
the compound, and hopefully spur them towards some sort of movement
out.
Q George, was there ever a conscious political
decision made, or even a discussion about distancing the President
from --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not at all. I mean, we were in
close contact with the Justice Department. The President accepts
responsibility for this. At the same time -- I mean, we just wanted
to be very, very clear about how this happened and be as factual as
we could be on how the decisions were made. It is the responsibility
of those on the ground to make recommendations. The Attorney General
has operational control over this. The President obviously accepts
responsibility for all of this, and he stands by the Attorney
General.
Q George, there was a report on the television today
-- and I don't know more than that -- one of the members of the cult
had said going into a courthouse that the FBI had started the fire
and not themselves. There was also a picture yesterday on the TV of
a smashing into the building where the fire broke out. And my
question is, is the White House absolutely certain that this fire was
--
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: All the evidence we have is that
this fire was started by David Koresh and those inside the compound
-- every bit of evidence we have.
Q Did the President ask the Attorney General why do
this now, why this particular date, and did he ask about possible
consequences of either death or injury?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know the specific
questions. He had general questions about how the decision was going
about being made.
Q Those are general questions and did he ask
generally, why now?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he asked, have you
considered all of the consequences; have you considered the
recommendations? I don't know if he asked the question, "why now? "
I don't know if he asked that specific question.
Q Did she tell him why now in terms of the stuff
that's come out since then about the information provided by the
listening device about Koresh getting increasingly more violent?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I'm not certain how much
specific detail they got into. I know that she generally said that
this is the recommendation she's prepared to make, I mean, the
decision she's prepared to make. It's based on the recommendations
she was receiving from the field and after intensive questioning of
those involved. Again, I do not know how precisely detailed it was
beyond that.
Q What is the President's understanding why
yesterday? One of the people who went into the compound a couple
weeks ago came out over the weekend with some speculation that he may
have told law enforcement people something that precipitated this
action. Why yesterday?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: This is the first I've heard. I
think what we can go to is what the FBI and the Attorney General has
said. There were indications that those inside the compound were at
some danger. It was clear that the negotiations had broken down and
it was the judgment of the experts involved in the negotiations that
the situation was not going to get any better at all.
There was also some concern over the vulnerability of
the agents themselves who had been working long beyond the time that
these teams normally have to work. And as the Attorney General has
said, there was some concern over the fact that they did not have
replacements in place who could stand in for them, and there was a
concern over the safety.
All of these factors came into play. They also
considered the advice of a number of psychologists and other experts
on David Koresh and those in the compound. I would just go back to
what the Attorney General has said. You have to make the best
judgment you can, given the information you have at the time. They
did. Obviously, we all regret the loss of life. It's a terribly
unfortunate situation. We all wish it could have turned out
differently, but that doesn't take away from the judgments that were
made at the time.
Q George, when did the President know that they were
going to use tear gas? Was it before the assault on the compound?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I just don't know. I don't believe
he was given a lot of detail on exactly how the operation would go.
I just don't know.
Q Along that point, George, can you say whether the
plan was presented to the President by the Attorney General as a way
to end the standoff one way or the other yesterday?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it was presented as a way
to increase the pressure on those in the compound and, we all hoped,
as a way to move some of those out and bring it in -- it wasn't
presented as tomorrow is D-Day, this is it.
Q Is the President satisfied that, A, he had all this
relevant information necessary to make a decision, and B, that Janet
Reno had all the relevant information necessary to make a decision?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Oh, I think he's satisfied that
they were acting on the best advice and the best information they
had, and he's not second-guessing it in any way whatsoever.
Q George, was there a 12-hour gap between
conversations between the President and the Attorney General? In
other words, they spoke at 11:00 a.m. and they didn't speak again
until Clinton got back from dinner at --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's likely, yes.
Q Did he call her? What time did she call? Was
there a gap between when she called him? I mean, was he at dinner
when she called and --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, no, no. I think he called her
last night. I couldn't swear to it, but I believe he called her last
night. He just wanted to talk to her.
Q what was going on?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not that I know of, no.
Q What do you know about the situation now? Everyone
has perished who -- except eight or nine? And do you know any of the
other details?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know any more details than
the FBI reported in Waco.
Q watching CNN or how was he keeping track of what
is going on? If he wasn't talking to his Attorney General, how was
he keeping track of what was going on here? I mean, with all due
respect to CNN, is that how he was doing it?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. There was also -- as I said,
several people in the White House were in constant contact with their
counterparts at Justice to have the full and complete information.
Q Who were those contacts? I mean, was it Mack
McLarty, Webb Hubbell? How was the President being kept informed?
That's not a --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I believe Mack was in contact with
Webb. I spoke with several people at the Justice Department. I
believe Bruce Lindsey spoke with people at the Justice Department.
Either Bernie or Vince was also in contact at different times during
the day with people at the Justice Department. We were fully briefed
and fully informed.
Q We were told this morning that the President may
have spoken -- a chance that he may have spoken with Webb. Do you
know if that's true or not?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think there's a chance he may
have. I don't believe he did, but I think there's certainly a chance
that he may have at some point. I don't believe he did. I think
that the last contact he had during the day yesterday directly with
the Justice Department was the 11:00 a.m. phone call with the
Attorney General. But the White House was fully informed on a
minute-to-minute basis of what was happening in Waco and what was
happening at the Justice Department.
Q George, who decided that the briefing would be done
by the Attorney General?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The Attorney General.
Q Did you or did the White House communications staff
-- were you ever involved with that decision?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. We were told about it.
Q Did you ask her to go on Nightline and MacNeil-
Lehrer and all that stuff? Was that part of --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No.
Q there was no advice from the White House at all
about her -- she was on all night, all day. (Laughter.)
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, and she did a very good job.
Q Why did you decide to have the President's reaction
to the situation be only a written statement, which is traditionally
the White House's way of distancing the President from the issue, not
having him appear as personally saying anything?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, that wasn't the intent at
all. As I said, we had to -- we wanted to wait until we had all of
the information at hand. The President is also making a statement
today. The President made a statement yesterday morning. The
President has been fully involved --
Q After this turned into less than a successful
operation, the only statement from the President was what was on
paper after the Attorney General had already given what amounted to
the major facts in this.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, it was the first statement
from the President, not the only statement from the President, number
one.
Q After the --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Number two -- well, the first.
Number two, the Attorney General --
Q He gave a statement early in the morning when the
thing was starting to move --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Right. And he gave one yesterday
and he's giving one today. Now, the second point --
Q It just happens this was a written statement with
no sort of communications policy or thought process involved? It was
the President wants to put out a written statement?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Knowing what we knew at the time,
we thought it was appropriate for the President and he thought it was
appropriate to put out a written statement expressing his regret and
expressing his support for the Attorney General's --
Q Why was it not appropriate for him to personally do
something?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, he did personally do so.
That is his statement. It's a statement under his name.
Q George, yesterday during the briefing you didn't
say the President took full responsibility for what happened --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I certainly did.
Q No, what you said was --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's just not right, Susan.
Q Well, I think you can go back to the transcript, I
mean, unless I miss something --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'd love to.
Q Janet Reno said that she took full
responsibility and you said that she made the decision, that the FBI
--
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And the President takes
responsibility. Absolutely.
Q Took responsibility -- all right.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Check the transcript.
Q Considering how little was known about what was
going on inside the compound and, even now, how little is known, why
is Washington calling this a mass suicide?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I think that knowing what we
know now and given all of the actions of David Koresh before and
during, it is painfully clear that those there were under his
control.
Q It's stretching it a little bit where the kids are
concerned, though, isn't it, George?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that that is an entirely
different matter. I mean, I think that David Koresh must bear
responsibility for the deaths of those children, absolutely. But he
clearly was intent on creating some kind of an apocalyptic incident,
and that's what he did.
Q You're still operating completely on assumption,
right? I mean, you have no evidence, or you know of no evidence that
this was mass suicide.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We have evidence that those inside
the compound set fire to the compound, which led to the deaths of
those inside.
Q I didn't quite hear it. This might be Ann's
question, I didn't quite hear it. But at what time did Clinton
himself put out a statement on this? I know Dee Dee said some stuff
on this at 6:00 p.m., but the President put out --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: At 6:35 p.m., 6:40 p.m.
Q Right after the evening news went on the air?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, right when we had all the
information. We were working on it.
Q Dee Dee confirmed this morning that the
investigation the President is going to announce is going to be an
administration-run investigation. Why not have someone from the
outside to make sure that it's not colored by those who would have a
political stake, particularly those at the ATF whose actions have
already been --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that clearly the ATF and
the Justice Department will bear responsibility for the
investigation. That's not to rule out, as is often in investigations
like this, having some sort of independent involvement as well. But
it will be run by the Treasury and Justice.
Q Are you confident that you will not have any
problem getting --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely.
Q George, did the President reach out to anybody else
to get advice after the meeting with Janet Reno? And who else in the
White House sat in on that meeting? Anyone else from Justice?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't believe anybody else was
there at the time. It was a phone call on Monday, it wasn't a
meeting.
Q Sunday.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Sunday. It was a phone call, it
wasn't a meeting. I believe he might have been there with Bruce, but
beyond that, I think he just talked to the Attorney General.
Q George, you said that in that phone call, she said
that we want to go in and take action, as you said, that will force
him out. What did he think she was talking about? If he didn't know
about tear gas, what exactly was his idea of what he was approving?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he was approving an action
to increase the pressure on --
qQ It didn't matter how she did that?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, no. I mean --
Q What information did he have in terms of how this
would proceed? Presumably he would have wanted to know, not minute-
by-minute, but in a general sense --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he knew that this was the
recommendation of those on the ground and the recommendation of the
law enforcement agencies. I just don't know --
Q What is "this" -- when you say that "this" was the
recommendation --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The action to increase pressure. I
don't know exactly what he was told -- whether he was going to be
told that the tank was going to go up to the left wall and punch a
hole in the window, or whether he was just told generally that they
were moving forward in a way that would increase the pressure. I
just don't know.
Q It's hard to imagine him not asking, though.
Q that Janet Reno presented him with as her best
advice about what they should go forward with, he would have agreed?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He was -- he did ask some general
questions about the advice and recommendation he gave. At the same
time -- and I would repeat -- that this was based on the unanimous
recommendation of the law enforcement agencies involved.
Q George, it would seem that this question about just
exactly in what detail the President was informed about the nature of
the operation is going to come up again here and elsewhere. Can you
take that question and --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely. Yes.
Q get the answer and come back to us with all of
it?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q Can you tell us that there was never a meeting -- a
strategy session -- where you and others decided, we will put out a
written statement from the President and we will have Janet Reno be
on all of these television broadcasts?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Never. Never.
Q And you never called the Justice Department and
said to anyone or Janet Reno, "you're the one who needs to be out
front explaining this"?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not once.
Q It just happened that way that she was the
spokesman, that no one ever saw Bill Sessions until --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: She made a decision as Attorney
General that it was important for her as the operational officer in
charge, as the person who made the decision, to go out and take the
questions on this tragic incident.
Q She had no guidance from the White House at all?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We certainly didn't object.
Q But did you -- (laughter) -- no, I'm sure you
didn't object, but did you suggest it? Was this a plan --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. Absolutely not.
Q a strategy?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No.
Q Did she clear it?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No.
Q Did she notify you?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We certainly knew about it.
Q What happened to this great detailed process you
have for clearing and talking to every public information officer and
every -- under every rock and every place in government that
something as major as this could have occurred without a discussion
between you and the public information people at least at the Justice
Department?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The Attorney General made the
decision and the Attorney General wanted to go forward. It seemed
like a good decision. It was a good decision. She did a good job.
Q Let me ask it this way, George, if in hindsight how
you would handle it?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it was handled very well.
Q You wouldn't change a thing if --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Change what?
Q The way the White House handled any part of it --
from start to finish.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I think that's an awful broad
question and we're certainly going to have a review. One of the
reasons for the investigation is to look for ways in the future that
something like this -- see what we can learn from an incident like
this and see what we can learn about how to handle them. If you're
talking specifically about the issue of the press conferences, no,
there -- wouldn't make any change at all.
Q Two questions: First of all, on her going on TV,
no White House people or outside media consultants came up with this
idea? It's just very reminiscent of what you guys did during the
campaign.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: How so?
Q I'm thinking of like watching Clinton on Nightline
after the draft story; watching Clinton on --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: There's absolutely no comparison.
Yesterday there was a law enforcement incident. The incident ended
in tragic deaths of many, many people. The Attorney General was
involved in that decision. The Attorney General made the decision to
do that. She felt it was her responsibility in the interest of
public information to go out and take the questions of the press in
order to make sure that all of the questions were answered, and she
did a fantastic job.
Q The second question is, did -- as someone who knows
Clinton as well as you do, can you understand why it's sort of hard
to believe that he might not have asked some detailed questions about
what she intended to do? In other words, she came and she said, I'm
going to put pressure on them. It's hard not to see Clinton, who's
fairly intelligent and inquisitive, asking how.
Q What kind?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Both the Attorney General said that
he did ask questions, he did ask general questions. I don't have a
minute-by-minute account of the conversation.
Q How long a conversation?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it was about 15 minutes.
Q Telephone conversation?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q George, was the federal cost of this standoff ever
a consideration in terms of stepping up the pressure --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't believe so, no.
Q George, you keep saying that the President takes
full responsibility, but then you refer to it as her decision. Does
the President not accept the fact that as Commander-In-Chief, it is
ultimately his decision?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know what this has to do
with Commander-In-Chief. This was a law enforcement action, not a
military action. And he clearly takes responsibility for the
decisions of the law enforcement agencies involved taken in his
government. I mean, I think there's just no ambiguity about that.
Q But is he accepting it as his decision as well as
hers, or is he saying it's her decision? There's a difference.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As a matter of fact, it was her
decision. He did not object to that decision. He clearly takes full
responsibility.
Q George, this briefing has gone on just a little
over 15 minutes, and as you can see a lot of things can be exchanged.
What exactly did they spend 15 minutes talking about if it was just
very general? That's a long period of time in a phone conversation.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It is an awful long phone
conversation. It was a very important phone conversation. I think
Brit has asked that we take the question, and I've said that I would.
Q One of the things Reno said last night is that the
buck stops here. I think that was her direct quotation. Does the
President agree with that in this case?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President says he accepts full
responsibility. I think what the Attorney General was saying is that
she made a decision, that she's going to accept all the
responsibility that comes to her. And she's not shrinking from that
at all, but neither is the President.
Q At any point in the conversation last night between
the President and the Attorney General or this morning, did she ever
offer her a resignation?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not to my knowledge.
Q Even before the fire was out yesterday, there were
some Republicans on Capitol Hill calling for an investigation. Is
the White House at all concerned about the timing of those requests
trying to make political hay out of this situation?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. And I don't want to cast any
questions about the motives of those who are requesting
investigation. We want an investigation, and we'll have a full and
complete investigation.
Q In what forum will you answer Brit's question?
Will you put out a written statement? Will you -- the wires? How
will you answer the question that you've taken?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm just not sure.
Q George, can you remind us what the President was
doing all yesterday afternoon, where he was, and what meetings he was
involved in?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'll have to try and remember. He
had a series of meetings with different members of the staff during
the afternoon. He was certainly monitoring the situation in Waco and
getting periodic reports on that as well. He did see some on CNN as
well. I believe he saw a fair amount of the FBI press briefing as
well.
Q And those reports would have come to him from Mack
McLarty, would they -- do you think?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Mack talked to him, Bruce talked to
him, I talked to him.
Q George, to follow Helen's question, in their
conversation this morning did they discuss at all her statement last
night in response to the question about whether she would resign?
Did he say, I don't know why you felt the need to say that? I'm here
to reassure you that you don't have to do this? Did that come up at
all?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if it even came up
that specifically. I know that the bulk of the conversation was
discussing where do we go from here and what form the investigation
--
Q The didn't talk at all about her kind of
remarkable comment last night about --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I believe she was asked a
question.
Q And her response was, if the President wants me to,
I will.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Which would be, I think, the
standard response that most Cabinet members would give. I mean, it's
a conditional statement.
Q have a need to talk about whether -- personally
about whether the President wanted her --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if they talked about
it. I mean, what I learned about the conversation was that it was
largely about the investigation itself. And this just didn't come
up. I did not ask the question if they talked about --
Q Will you take that with the Brit package?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Certainly. (Laughter.)
Q George, for the record, does the President want her
to resign? I know Dee Dee answered this morning --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Absolutely not. He supports Janet
Reno. She's a good Attorney General. She's done a good job. She
handled a difficult situation extremely well.
Q George, does the President feel that he and Janet
Reno were let down by the unanimous professional advice from the law
enforcement experts on the ground?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. And the President is not
second-guessing that decision and those recommendations in any way.
That is not to say that he doesn't regret the loss of life.
Everybody regrets the loss of life in this situation. But the best
judgments were made in a difficult situation based on the best
information we had.
Q George, the 15-minute conversation was the one on
Sunday, is that correct?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes.
Q How long was the one at 11:00 a.m. yesterday
morning?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know. I'll take that
question, too.
Q Were these outside experts that they were
consulting with, or experts within the ATF and the FBI?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You'd have to ask them. I'm just
not sure. I know that there were several experts.
Q And also, why weren't there replacements for these
people? Is the unit that small?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I think it is a very small
highly-specialized unit. But I think it's one of the kinds of things
that the investigation will examine.
Q George, isn't there a factor here involving the FBI
Director? Normally, a president, when he wants to get information,
doesn't only asks the Attorney General. I know the chain of command.
But presidents talk to their FBI directors. In this case, throughout
this entire siege, he has not felt that he could pick up the phone
and talk to Bill Sessions, who is from Waco, and get expertise from
him on what to do and what not to do?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he talked to the FBI
Director well in the beginning of the situation when it first broke
out in Waco. At the same time, the Attorney General bears the
ultimate responsibility and he was getting fully briefed from the
Attorney General.
Q Don't you think the ambiguous situation that
Director Sessions is in has some impact on the way the President is
briefed and on the way that all of this evolved?
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not at all. I mean, it's perfectly
appropriate that he be briefed by the Attorney General and that the
Attorney General has supervisory authority over the FBI Director, and
that's following the chain of command.
THE PRESS: Thank you .
END 1:03 P.M. EDT
#60-04/20
| 18talk.politics.misc |
In article <1993Apr19.145456.20462@msc.cornell.edu>, randy@msc.cornell.edu (Randy Ellingson) writes:
[ Questions deleted ]
> I actually have a PAS-16, and could (what a waste I guess it would be...) hook
> up a SCSI HD through it's SCSI port which yields an optimum of 690Kb/sec.
> Actually, I have a borrowed 12ms Fujitsu HD hooked up through it now (and
> own the Trantor HD drivers for the PAS-16 SCSI port). Is this SCSI port a
> SCSI-2 port? How could I tell? Is the Fujitsu 2623A a SCSI-2? Are all SCSI
> HD's SCSI-2?
Does any one know what the PAS16 SCSI port is? I counted the pins on the board
displayed in their ad and it only got 40! What happened to the other 50?
Did they junk a whole bunch of grounds or what?
>
> Thanks for any comments.
>
> Randy
>
Guy
--
-- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guy Dawson - Hoskyns Group Plc.
guyd@hoskyns.co.uk Tel Hoskyns UK - 71 251 2128
guyd@austin.ibm.com Tel IBM Austin USA - 512 838 3377
| 3comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware |
In article <C5JJIG.Doy@acsu.buffalo.edu>, lusardi@cs.buffalo.edu (Christopher Lusardi) writes:
|>
|> What is the directory .X11-unix for in /tmp? When I start
|> x, it is created by the system. This directory wasn't created
|> by root, and it contains an empty file (X0) that is owned by me.
|>
It's the Unix Domain Socket (local connection) to your XServer.
Try to rm it :)
--
+-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+
| o | \\\- Brain Inside -/// | o |
| o | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | o |
| o | Andre' Beck (ABPSoft) mehl: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.de | o |
+-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+
| 5comp.windows.x |
In article <C5IJ7H.L95@news.iastate.edu> jrbeach@iastate.edu (Jeffry R Beach) writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.021021.7538@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>>In article <C5HuH1.241@news.iastate.edu>, jrbeach@iastate.edu (Jeffry R Beach) writes:
>>> Think about it -- shouldn't all drugs then be legalized, it would lower
>>> the cost and definitely make them safer to use.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> I don't think we want to start using these criterion to determine
>>> legality.
>>
>> Why not?
>
>Where do they get these people?! I really don't want to waste time in
>here to do battle about the legalization of drugs. If you really want to, we
>can get into it and prove just how idiotic that idea is!
You asked a question, and now you don't want people to answer? I believe
a legitimate question was asked. Why shouldn't cost and safety be used
(at least in part) to determine legality?
I'd like to see you *prove* that drug legalization is an idiotic idea.
Seems to me the evidence from Great Britain is pretty convincing that
drug legalization is a good idea. Even such a noted conservative as
William F. Buckley supports it.
>
>My point was that it is pretty stupid to justify legalizing something just
>because it will be safer and cheaper.
>
>A few more ideas to hold to these criterion - prostitution; the killing of all
>funny farm patients, AIDS "victims", elderly, unemployed, prisioners, etc. -
>this would surely make my taxes decrease.
Your examples (except for prostitution) fail miserably to meet both criteria
(safer AND cheaper). Obviously, killing people is not "safe". As for
prostitution, why shouldn't it be legal?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
...Dale Cook "Any town having more churches than bars has a serious
social problem." ---Edward Abbey
The opinions are mine only (i.e., they are NOT my employer's)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 18talk.politics.misc |
We are interested in purchasing a grayscale printer that offers a good
resoltuion for grayscale medical images. Can anybody give me some
recommendations on these products in the market, in particular, those
under $5000?
Thank for the advice.
| 1comp.graphics |
In <1993May15.014554.2850@aie.nl> hansk@aie.nl (Hans Kinwel) writes:
>In article <1993May12.220831.8619@leland.Stanford.EDU> etoyoc@leland.Stanford.EDU (aaron thode) writes:
>>Having tracked sci.space for quite a while, I have some questions
>>about a mysterious figure called Henry Spencer. If there is anything
>>going on in the space community, he seems to know it.
>> The questions are somewhat tounge-in-cheek:
>> 1) Is sci.space a hobby or a job for you?
>> 1) Do you ever eat or sleep?
>> 3) Does U of Toronto Zoology department conduct space research?
>> Or do you just use an account there?
>>Just curious.
>My god! You dare posting! I posed these very questions to Mr Spencer
>some time ago by email. Unfortunately I never received any response.
well, IMHO (and i am just a nobody net.user) henry spencer is to
sci.* as kibo is to alt.* and rec.*....
....but i could be wrong...(did anybody mention the illuminati)
kitten
--
***************************************************************************
conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten /\ /\ a.k.a. barbara ann
trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu {=.=}
"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?" ~
"summmmmmmmmmmertimmmmmmmmmme....and the livin' is easy" gg
| 14sci.space |
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