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And it'd be refreshing once in a while to hear some good news. Right And, uh. and I, I think there's an attempt to do that. You know, I think people, there's a mild attempt for that, but I think basically, we basically associate news with bad news or, or catastrophes or problems or crises, or, uh, you know. Yes, we do. I think our concept of news isn't necessarily events that happen. It's more negative, like you said. True, true. But, I think people try to, on, on T V I think, they try to throw in good stuff, but it doesn't, uh, it doesn't sway the vote. Uh-huh. I've heard an interesting comment also that, uh, with budget cuts and, uh, expenses the way they are that it's affected the news media, whereas before they would be able to have a in-depth analysis or, uh, investigative reporting, on certain topics and issues, but that takes time, that takes an awful lot of money and commitment, and, and quite often it's a lot easier to listen to the police scanners or what they call ambulance chasing
Uh-huh. and go after, you know, it's lot easy to go after and follow a fire department or a police officer, and, uh, find out news from that as opposed to going out and finding good things, so. I don't know, I guess the economy is, is effecting also the news media Uh-huh. and we have to pay that price, but, uh, I don't know, I don't know. It's interesting, and I think that nowadays with communications the way they are also, that we can see global events happening as, as they occur all over the world, like the, Right. You know, the war last winter was certainly a good example of that because we saw every single thing, practically. Exactly. We saw, Yes, you know, twenty years ago, thirty years ago, we wouldn't have been able to have that privilege or, or luxury to, to view that. So. I mean, you know, I remember, well, just the things that are covered. I remember watching the World Series during the earthquake, and just seeing that happen Oh, yes.
I mean, you know, that was just so phenomenal to see this stadium shake and the, and the announcers, you know grabbing, Uh-huh. I mean, it's like, that was just something because that was like live and real like you said, Oh, yeah. Yeah. and then, of course, one thing I think, too, is with Okay, Mike, I guess we'll be talking about painting recently. Any kind of recent painting you've done, uh, yourself? Have you done any recently? Well, we, uh, remodeled a bathroom. And, which required, uh, completely repainting the bathroom, Uh-huh. and the other project we've done around here is, uh, we've remodeled all our, all our closets which required quite a bit of painting. Wow, wow, that's, that's quite a chore. Yes, I imagine it did. Did you have that done professionally or did you do that yourself?
No, we did it ourselves, did it myself. Did you enjoy that? Yeah. Oh, that's, that's fun. We just recently, uh, had our boys' room, our two oldest boys share a room, and they're, uh, the paint has, uh, kind of faded and deteriorated, and so we decided to paint their room and put up wallpaper and border and so forth, and, uh, looks quite good. We were quite pleased with the result. Is this a project you did yourself? Yes, it's a project, uh, that I did, yes, and, and, uh. What, what brought about the fading of the paint? Well Just sun exposure?
I don't think it's sun exposure, but, uh, boys will be boys, and there, there were crayon marks on there and we had to, to scrub the crayon marks off, of course, try and get it clean. Oh, okay, yeah. Latex paint? Pardon me? Latex? Yes it was. It was latex paint, and that's, uh, what we put back on there, was a latex paint. Uh-huh. Plus, uh, they had bunk beds, and the boy, one of the younger boys, when he was younger, about three years old, got a, uh, got a nice marker and got up on the ceiling and decided to draw pictures On the ceiling? Yes, on the ceiling. Yeah.
And, uh, you scrub and you scrub, but you can't it all off. No, that's true. And so, that's one of the reasons why we painted, and, uh. Did you go, what kind of paint did you use on the ceiling? We used a flat, latex paint Okay. and in the bedroom, as I understand, that's, uh, one of the better type of paints to have because it's not so reflective and, and glassy colored, Uh-huh. and it, uh, turned out real, real well. Seems like, uh, I've, we've done some remodeling of some, uh, rental houses that we have Uh-huh. and it appears as though that, uh, oh, in the fifties or sixties when some of these houses were built, uh, they used a lot of, uh, semigloss type enamel for ceiling paints Uh-huh. and that was a little difficult to cover with today's paints, it seemed like. We had an occasion, uh, where we had to do some sealing of, uh, the of the, this type of paint before we could paint it. Uh-huh. Oh, you had to prime it and and cover over it.
Yeah. Right. Huh. You had pretty good luck with one coat type paint? You use a particular brand or anything? Well, I like to use this, this Sears, uh, the ten year guarantee or the fifteen year guarantee. Weather beater type stuff? Yeah. Yeah. And the reason being is once I painted, I don't want to have to go and do it another five or seven years later Understand. but, uh, and, uh, we're quite satisfied with that Uh-huh. and, and occasionally you can watch for it and get it on sale, and we do, do that. In fact, I was just reading an article, you mentioned painting your bathroom. Uh-huh. I read an article recently that, uh, you have to be very careful on the kind of paint you put on the ceiling in your bathroom because it does tend to, to peel or come off because of the moisture, high moisture content in your bath, bathroom.
Yeah, it's a lot like, uh, wall paper. That's true. And, uh, did you have any problems with that or, Well, the particular bathroom that we did is a half bath, so we didn't have a problem with that. Oh, good. Uh, I have had, I've, uh, have never experienced that type of a problem uh, with a latex paint. Uh-huh. Oh, good. neither have I So, you shouldn't have a, you shouldn't have a problem with it. Oh, good. They're, they're pretty well refined today a lot of the paints, Uh-huh. and Sears is one of the better ones. Yeah. I've used, uh, many a gallon of them, myself. Do you, uh, have you ever used an oil base paint?
Uh, used oil base paints for trim you know, like around doors and, and on doors, things like that. Uh-huh. why do you use that? I'm, I'm kind of learning at this, new at this, but. It adheres better, or lasts longer? Uh, primarily because it, it seems to be a little more, uh, well, let's say well, not so much that. It seems to hold up a little bit better towards the nicks and dings as opposed to, uh, a latex type paint. Oh, okay. Uh-huh. And, uh, it just, you know, it, it gives you a, a variance even though it's the same color. Right. Well, that's good, that's good. So it's worked out pretty well for us. Uh, have you ever done any painting outside? Uh, quite a bit, painted a couple of houses. Uh, recently this summer we painted a, uh, out building, which is a shed that we have on the, Okay,
where does she live? Uh, on Rutherford. Rutherford. I don't know that. It's, uh, corner of New York uh, just west of Mayfield. Uh-huh. It's, oh, oh, south and, okay, yeah, I know where you, I know the area. Uh. Right, that's kind of on the other side of town, so our kids probably never went to school together or anything Oh, okay. Oh, they're, they're little ones Oh, well, I've got one in college Oh. By now. Let's see, we're on government, whether we think it's honest or can be. Right.
Whether it is possible to have an honest government. I'm beginning to think it's not. What about you? I, I don't think under the way the system is right now, it is. I don't either. I, I think, uh, even if people have good intentions, I think uh, power corrupts or something to a certain extent, you know. The ultimate power, ultimately corrupts. Yeah, it seems like, uh, maybe more of them come in with good intentions, but it's just so enticing, and a lot of corners being cut and the special deals available, because they're in on the know , you know I don't know if, there is enough money that you could pay them just, you know X amount of money to keep them honest. Oh. I just, I just don't, uh, Right. I mean, you even see people on a small scale cheating when they have certain positions, you know what I mean? Right. Little bitty, little bitty positions in your own home town, and they'll cheat somehow or, you know, bend the rules, use their power. So maybe it's just man's nature
We had, uh, here in Oklahoma we had a few years ago a major, uh, corruption on, on our county commissioners Uh-huh. and there were several counties, uh, including the one I was in, that lost every one of their county commissioners and, I mean, it was to the point of not just losing their job, but going to jail. Oh, my word. Oh, wow. What were they doing taking some, Oh, they were taking kickbacks. Oh, no Yeah Oh, gosh. Just a little here, a little there. Yeah, right Major amount here, a major amount there. Right Oh. But I think there was something like, you know, thirty or forty commissioners that ended up going to jail. Um. We haven't had that big a scandal in Arlington, but we do have the people that work for the convention center were falsifying records.
In other words, they'd go out and have a big, lavish dinner and then put somebody's name down that they supposedly had entertained, but that person wasn't even anywhere near there, you know. Some of them weren't even in the same city. One of them had, had cancer and died and I mean, that was our biggest scandal for the last few years, I think. Uh, that's, that's small scale. I don't know, you know, I really don't know what could be done. Uh, I don't, I don't either. Uh, to make it totally honest. Uh, I think there's, there's always going to be some way somebody can cut a corner, uh. However, the things that have gone, gone on in the last couple of years, we can't afford too many of those, you know, the the HUD mess or the S and L. That's right. We could almost not afford such terrible corruption. The cover-ups and, Right, right. I think that, uh, Reagan and Bush were up to their necks in that Iran Contra thing, and it kind of makes you feel bad that the top people in your country would be lying to you like that, but, uh, I, uh, I don't know.
I just, uh, I'd like to believe that there is some way that our political people would really go there and look out for our interests. Right. I think that's what upsets me worse than, that they're getting a little, you know, uh, on the side that, that, it seems that when they get up there it's, it's what, if I vote your way, what it'll do for me rather, than this is the way my constituents want it. Uh-huh, uh-huh. That's right, but they stay there, Uh-huh. Right, and this would be for the best for the nation overall. You're right, it's just a, I don't know. I guess that's where they stay in, uh, in, they try to stay in office. But they always please the money people too. They need money so much, because they're constantly having to run, for office again. run, And, Maybe
and then you think, well, if it was longer terms then they would never have to try to please the people at home Uh-huh. That's true. Boy, it is a big problem, but I think most people are kind of depressed and cynical about government now, don't you? I don't think that they, anyone has a lot of respect or faith in the government. I know. It's really terrible. I mean, there was a time, I mean where, I remember when I was real young, I just loved Harry Truman. I thought he was great Oh, you know, I had, some of them seemed like kind of, uh, heroic people. Well I wonder if they really were, or if we just really didn't, Okay, Jerry, the topic was favorite T V shows, and what kind are you interested in, and how they, and do they differ from like mine. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Well, okay, uh, most of, most of the, uh, commercial television these days, I'm just a little bit sick of.
Uh, in fact, I don't watch hardly any, uh, television at all with, uh, my other activities. Uh, between my family and my church et cetera, et cetera, well I don't have time, I hardly any time to sit down and watch the news. Right. Now I do watch the Discover channel and some on channel thirteen but, uh, aside from aside from that, I pretty well, uh, turn it off. Oh, do you, yeah. Oh, I'm sort of a, well, I'm different from that. I'm sort of a, a movie buff. Uh-huh. I go to a couple of movies a week, sometimes, but honestly I'm, I'm self-employed, and a lot of times I will, uh, go out and take a lunch hour, go to lunch from like twelve to two, go to a movie and just come back to my office. I don't blame you. But, uh, I do it, it's like entertainment, and I'm pretty much of a, a junk movie watcher by myself. Uh-huh. If I take my wife, then we see something a little nicer, you know.
Uh-huh, uh-huh. But, uh, and my kids are all sort of movie watchers. You know, we, we've always been to a lot of, we've always gone to a lot of movies in our life. So, but I would just as soon, uh, be doing something else, it's just that my kids are gone now, and, and my wife's a school teacher and sometimes, and she doesn't get home until about seven o'clock. So, you know, I'll come in like five thirty or six, and I'll turn on the tube set there and have my coffee or Coke or whatever and a little T V Uh-huh. and sometimes I set there all evening. Yeah I, well, it, sometimes if, if it's real good, like there's more, there's been more than one evening that I've, uh, caught, uh, every animal show that evening on, uh, on the Discover channel. You bet, you bet. And, uh, because they're, uh, they're, they're, you know, they're documentaries and they're.
Well, that's an interesting channel. Oh, you bet, in fact I'm glad that it's part of our, uh, basic cable package. That's great. But, uh, You know, I've, I've just never spent any time watching it and, you know I like my sports and everything Uh-huh. but I, Oh, oh, me too. Hello Watch my Dallas Cowboys. I watched them to halftime before I left and I left at halftime Well, they, they, they whooped up on them. and started driving. They sure did. They just did an excellent job. Uh-huh, and they're in the playoffs,
and I'm not sure that the Eagles are not. Yeah, the Eagles I did. yeah luck into it now, I think. Yeah, that's true. Cowboys, they earned it on their own merit. Well. Did you know, everybody, or not everybody but quite a few of the folks were kind of down on Mister Johnson, but, uh, he's, uh, he's brought the pokes, uh, from a, a one and something team to, uh, playoffs, in what, three years now. You bet, as much as everyone, you know, used the word, love Tom Landry, I'm glad that Jimmy Johnson's there. Uh-huh, well, it's, uh, you know, it was the time for the passing of the guard, I mean. It was. And I think Tom knew it. I think so too. So, uh,
He wanted to go out a winner though. I think he would have stayed there four or five more years until he could have gone out Yeah, that's true, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't have blamed him one bit because Oh, no, it's, you know he earned his stripes. yeah, but, see, nobody remembers him as a loser because he's too, he's too far, he's far too much of a gentleman and a, and a practicing Christian to, uh to ever be thought of as anything but a you know, but a winner. I know. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's a, he's a winner in anyone's book Yeah. and I hope he's a winner in his own book, you know because that's the key there. Oh, he is, he is because he has to like himself before he can like other people. Uh, You bet. Little things that disturb me,
and I know he's being a little hardnosed about it but, uh, you know, this ring of honor thing, you know, he needs to be there because he's earned it. Uh-huh. He deserves it, and he was the Dallas Cowboys, and he won't do that yet. Yes. So. I hope he makes up his mind to do it, because he needs to be remembered. Oh, he will. Right. Well, nobody's going to forget Tom Landry. No, no, no. Shoot, come now Absolutely not That's true, but he needs to be honored, I mean, I'd not a let's put it that way.
you betcha. I'm not a native Texan by birth but, uh, I guess if I, uh, length of, length of time I'm in the state now, is what, after you're here twenty years you're considered native. You bet. I've been here since seventy-four, and I feel like a native. Well, let's see, I came down March of sixty-nine, went to work for T and I. Oh, did you. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I haven't looked back yet either, so We came, we came down from New York state in seventy-four, and uh, never had any regrets at all. Right. Especially looking at some of the weather New York state has had You bet. It's been. and then look at the weather we have down here. Huh
It's a great place to raise our kids, and I've got my last kid graduating from college this next December Uh-huh. she's getting married the month before in November, so Oh, goodness. I will have finished, be finished with that. Well, we're well, we're finished with all but the last one, and trying to get him through his technical school Right. and, uh, we're, uh, he's over halfway, so. Well, good. You know, we're not staying on the topic of television shows, but I'm really not too concerned, are you? No, not at all. No, me neither. I'm enjoying the chat. Uh.
Well, I enjoy my T V programs. I like those, I like those detective programs. I like everything. I can watch Bill Cosby because I think he has a great show. Well. Do you have, uh, some strong feelings one way or the other about, about the care of the elderly? Well, yes, I do. Uh, this is a, a question that hit pretty close to home. I had to go through this with my dad about four years ago. He was, his health was failing Uh-huh. and, uh, he was adamant about two things. One was that I take care of my mother, and two, that he not be put into a home. Uh-huh. And we talked, uh, about some length, and I respected his wishes. He, uh, stayed at home as long as he could,
and then, uh, he died in a hospital. But, um, I think that, my position is that, uh, you need to find one that you can really have confidence that they are taking care of the, of the, uh, of their clients Yes. and, um, because I've heard about the many abuses, and because he had heard of so many abuses, he just didn't want that. Yeah, yeah. How about you? Well, my graduate work is in speech pathology, and, uh, so, so, uh, I've thought about this more than once, uh, you know, dealing with uh, you know, I'm concerned, we're going to have a geriatric, uh, population, in in twenty years it's going to be, you know, phenomenal. Yeah, almost thirty, all over thirty percent, isn't it. Yeah, yeah. Uh, and, um, but I have been amazed and, and in talking with, uh, some of my fellow students, it looks as though, um, nursing homes are not going to be the only option any more and, uh, in twenty years. Uh, where a lot of students are hoping, uh, to work as an in the home type, uh, uh, approach, where, where the, uh, where there's, you know, the speech therapist, or whether it's a nursing specialist or someone plans to, uh, work out of a family's home and take the responsibility away from the family but yet allow the, the loved one to stay, you know, at home with the family members. Uh-huh. Uh, it's, it's difficult for many families, especially in the case of, uh, of Alzheimer's and, and, uh, some of the more degenerative diseases to, uh, say, uh, uh, leave them, to have them at home, because then the family becomes completely, uh They're captive.
exactly. Yeah, and, and did, did you experience that with your, with your father or not? Uh, we had a, at one stage we had care somewhat like, like what you're talking about. We had the Visiting Nurses program Uh-huh. and they sent somebody in, and it, it was a, a nominal charge that this, uh, it started out that the lady would come in I think three times a week and eventually got up to the point where they were coming by every day. Yeah. They would try to get him to exercise. They would try to, uh, you know, they would check him over to, to, you know, the basic checks. Try to get him to talk and be motivated Uh-huh. and, uh, that's what we went through. Uh, up to a point things seemed to be working, and then, uh, I think, he, he became discouraged Right. and they did not know how to take care of that, and then, um, at that point I think it's mostly a psychological problem.
Oh. And, uh, but, yes, I agree there's a lot of options. There could be a lot of options. Uh-huh. I think it's time that, uh, we decide to do something about it. Yeah. Um. Definitely. You know, one of the other subjects on the switchboard, and this is one that I've been thinking applies here, uh, where, where, uh, young, young kids, uh, graduating from high school, whether they should do a community service type work. This would be an excellent example of some where, uh, some place where, um, the community could be more involved, you know, more than just leaving it only to professionals. There is a lot the community, the community can do to, uh, enhance the, or, or assist the lives of those who are keeping a loved one at home. I suppose at one time the church would fulfill this need. Possibly before. I don't know now. Yeah, the church or synagogue, whatever because typically these were close knit groups at one time, Uh-huh. but in today's large metropolitan areas, or even in most, even, even the rural areas now, people are not quite as close as they once were. Huh-uh.
Uh, the mobility factor, the factor that, uh, oh, we're living longer and people are less trusting, all these things tend to destroy this type of system. But I agree with you, there might be some possibilities there. Uh-huh. Although dealing with geriatrics is something a lot of young people just aren't emotionally prepared to do. I agree. That's a, that's a good point. I think they would have to have some training. Uh, let's see. Personal computers. Yes. So, do you use them? Uh, yes, um, we own one. Terrific. What kind? Uh, its an Emerson eighty eighty-six, um, two low density floppy drives, and no hard drive yet. But, uh, you know, it's, it comes in mighty handy. Mostly for word processing type things? Uh, yeah,
a big chunk of it's word processing. We're also taking programming classes, and, uh, so there's a fair amount of programming getting done on it. But, uh, uh, the, uh, right now we got a project going where we're trying to put, uh, all my wife's stray recipes on the disk. Nice. Did you buy a program to handle menus? Uh, it came with a menus program, but, uh, that doesn't, it, it both, excuse me, mostly kind of a pain in the neck without a hard drive Oh, yes. and hopefully sometime this spring we'll be able to get one and get it configured. Eighty eighty-eight is what you said? Eighty eighty-six. Eighty, oh gosh, it's worth your time to just upgrade, they're so darned cheap now. Which,
Computers. Uh, impoverished college student. Oh, no. This one went on a credit card, and we got a way out, while to pay it off yet. Uh, I've, I've got one at home too. It's a three eighty-six, thirty-three megahertz, forty, four meg ram and hundred and thirty meg drive and super V G A and, yeah, it's fun. I do programming, too. My job is, uh, E D P auditor, and so I'm into computers all the time. E D P. Electronic Data Processing. Okay, that sounds like fun job. Yeah, I really enjoy it, and it treats me well. Yes.
Uh, what are you studying in college computers? Uh. Computer engineering. How nice. Well, computer engineering technology, uh, which, uh, all I can understand is it's a slightly more hands on version of computer engineering. But, I've got a ways to go yet. So far most of what I've done is getting, gotten core classes out of the way, taken some electronics classes, and one class in, um, with computer logic. How they work is fascinating to me. Oh, yes. I enjoy it myself The, uh, lab for that, uh, computer logic class was a lot of fun. Was it. Did, Yeah, we got to hook up a few, uh, counters and, uh, encoders. Hardware stuff, huh. Yeah. What do you think of that fuzzy logic? I've not had a chance to work with it, although, um, my, uh, data structures teacher was telling us something about how fuzzy logic works as far as the concept behind it. Uh-huh.
Now how you'd implement that software wise or mechanically I don't know, but, uh, it sounds like a very impressive piece of, piece of work. Yeah, they're pretty amazing. Uh, I've written a couple of programs for, commercially, uh Yes. and it's a fun field. In the fuzzy logic direction? What, no, in, uh, no, just regular, uh, but you have to take into account, you know, with any computer program all the type of things people can do to you to make your program crash or things you normally don't consider. Yeah. Entering bad information of one sort or another and, Yeah, pushing keys certain times and, Uh, messing up your files and things like that. Yeah.
Uh-huh. And you're going to be an engineer, computer engineer type. Uh, yeah, well, what the computer, what the C E T program seems to be so far is just a broad based specialized from, you get programming, a fair amount of programming, you get hardware, you get, uh, more or less, uh, you get basic electronics courses that, uh, deal with, you know, not only the digital circuitry but, uh, you know, power supplies and, and, uh, just the whole gambit, but mostly towards, uh, computer electronics. So, the idea is that, um, you can go in a variety of direction from C E T major, but I I have more with the hardware than I do with the software, so, yeah I pretty much plan on, I mean, so far I'm planning to go in the engineering direction. I don't, That's good, uh, Set. Okay. You, you got the topic, right? Yeah. Okay. Uh, well, where in Dallas are you? I'm in Richardson.
Oh, okay. So you do do recycling there? Yeah, Richardson has, uh, well, they have a newspaper pick up once a week supposedly, if it's not raining. Uh-huh. And they also have a couple of areas where you can take, uh, cans, plastic and paper, to, uh, you know, dump them off there if you don't, uh, want to wait and have a pick up, least of paper, but they don't pick up the other items. They don't pick up cans or the plastic. Uh-huh. Are they going to later, do you know? I'm not sure. They only started to do the newspaper uh, late last year. Just kind of like a trial basis. And see how it goes, so I don't know if they're going to pick up the other things. Uh-huh. Um. What about you? Well, I'm, I'm in Dallas proper in the city of Dallas Uh-huh. and I know they do have, you know, a pilot program going on
but it's not here. Um. So they're not picking up anything Oh. So, I mean, we, we collect everything We've got all these boxes in our garage for, you know, green glass and clear glass and plastic and everything. Where do you take them? Well, there's, there's a couple places. Unfortunately, we can't find a place that will take everything. Um. Uh, there's a lot of places to take, like the plastic, uh, shopping bags like most of the grocery stores. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And there's a Wal-Mart nearby that takes almost everything. I can't remember what it is they don't take. Um. And the library will take glass. So we end up, you know, on the weekend we pack it all in the car and, and as we go places we, oh, wait, we can drop the glass off you know.
Um. Drop things off one at a time, but, uh, and it's kind of disappointing, I mean, I would even be happy if they just had one, you know, one place where you could do everything. You know, it would still be more convenient than what we have now. One of the people from my department, I think used to take a lot of the stuff to a recycling center that was for the benefit of the Dallas Shelter. Um. I think it was closer to downtown. Where is that? Uh, she's not here anymore Oh. but, uh, yeah, I'm pretty far north. I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm just, I'm north of Addison actually. Oh. So I'm, I'm really Yeah. I'm, I'm in Dallas, but only technically Well, sometimes we take our, uh, we always keep our aluminum cans. Uh-huh.
Yeah. And a lot of times they take them over to one of these can banks. Yeah, I've seen those. You don't get too much money back. I figure it pays for the gas to take my cans over there. Yeah. But normally I collect, oh, like three trash bags full Yeah. and I take them over to that can bank and it's more fun just to kind of like crunch the cans in the can bank. Don't get too much money for them but, Well, you get something Uh, Yeah. We used to do that, but, again, that's another stop Uh-huh. and it doesn't take plastic bags and, and all that sort of thing,
but, uh, I think that, you know, I heard that it was going well in the pilot area wherever that is and so hopefully they'll do it soon. Uh-huh. That would be good because we have two trash pick ups a week Uh-huh. and, where I grew up we only had one a week and that was certainly sufficient. So if they just do, one of them will be trash and the alternate time would be recyclables, that would be great. Yeah. So, Yeah. Uh, I'm disappointed sometimes they're not always consistent in picking up those papers, you know. I seem to put them out there on Wednesday Uh-huh. and like sometimes they come by, sometimes they don't. Oh.
I'm not really sure why they're not always consistent in that. Um. But I could certainly have, uh, three bins out there for, you know, plastic and and tin and paper, whatever they were going to, uh, separate into and, and have them pick it up on, on one of the two days per week. Right. That would be easy. Yeah. Do you have to, uh, sort the paper and take out the glossy pages and that, that sort of thing or do they take the whole thing? You're not supposed to have, like the coupons in there. Oh, okay. Uh, or you're not supposed to put magazines in there Uh-huh. and you can't take newspapers. Now at work, uh, you know, we have changed our recycling. At first they were kind of finicky about what kind of paper you could recycle. And not too long ago they finally decided if it's anything that's paper and tears, you can throw it in there because at first they said, Let me guess you work at T I, right? Yeah,
at first they said, They said, no telephone books. So do I. Yeah. You know, well, that's stupid and then they said no newspapers. Um. Well, in the, my department everybody gets the WALL STREET JOURNAL. Yeah. There was like a lot of paper coming out of our department that wasn't recyclable. Yeah. So I thought that was pretty good to expand upon it, say, Well, and they take cans, now, too. Which is great. Yeah. I still put my cans in with the cans. I mean, I don't want it with paper. Somehow that just seems weird to me Well, our department used to collect the cans anyway for the Christmas tree project. And, In fact we got, this past year, we got all of our money for the Christmas tree because we saved cans for the entire year. Oh.
Ooh. And it worked out really well. Well, we had the one person who used to take things to the Dallas Shelter. Uh-huh. I think that's what that was called. Uh-huh. She collected, she used to collect from the whole department, but she took them all down to that Dallas Shelter place. Uh-huh. I wish I could remember the whole name of that place, but it's a charity for the benefit of this shelter. Uh-huh. And, yeah, she, she used to collect them from everybody in the department. Yeah. She'd go up and down with her little bag collecting from everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Because we would get it, Okay,
you got any hobbies that you want to talk about? Well, I, uh, don't seem to have as much spare time as I used to, but, I guess I'll have to say my computer has probably taken the place of most of my hobbies. What in the world do you do with your computer that takes so much time? Well, I sit and design cards Oh, really? and, uh, oh, I, I'm really into graphics, so, it, it just, I sit and learn new programs and I play and I do this, and I do that and, I'm, I'm starting a side business in desk top publishing Did you have, uh, your own business or you do that as, just on the side, or what? Uh-huh. and, uh, it's just getting going. I, I'm teaching in the daytime Well. and, uh, I teach business and computer technology. What do you teach?
Oh, that's good. Well, I guess It's, uh, to high school kids, it's, uh, alternative learning Uh-huh. and, uh, it's, it's really a challenge, but. What hobbies do you have? Well, I, uh, play trombone in the Plano Community Band. Ooh, neat. And I, uh, like to do a lot of bicycling when the weather allows, and during summer when there's daylight savings time's when I get out and bike. Well, I hope you all had as pretty a day today as we did. Well, it wasn't too bad, other than the Cowboys didn't do so hot. Oh, well now, yes I don't think you can blame the weather on that. We had. No, just a crummy, well, actually the Lions are pretty good, I'm afraid, they a lot better team than the Cowboys were today. And, uh, . On any given day, they say. Uh, I haven't, I haven't played in a while, but I do, when I get time and it's pretty weather and it's summer I like to play golf.
Oh, okay. I, I play that about six times a year and every year I hang my bag up if I get that five or six and I swear, swear that game off for another year, but I always go back to it Oh, I, uh, oh, I take spells, I'm, I'm kind of a compulsive obsessive person and when I start something, I, I go into it a thousand percent I understand that. and then I get, I get burned out on it. But, uh, I do some counted cross-stitch and some painting on shirts. Well, you do lots of stuff. Well, it doesn't seem like I get anything done, but I guess I do and, I, I like to bake. It's just me in the house, so, when I bake it's usually to take out for something. Gosh, I come up there I'll have to stop by and have, try some of your baking. Well.
I call on people in . My business is, uh, machine tool sales, and I have some, I, I cover Texas and Oklahoma. Oh, okay. So, I, what I said that I wasn't being real facetious about that. I got customers in Oklahoma City and Tulsa and Perry, Oklahoma and Eda and all that, all that way. Oh, how neat. So you do quite a bit of traveling then. Yes, yes. I, about thirty-three thousand miles a year. So. Ooh, well that doesn't leave a lot of time for hobbies, does it? Well, I usually, see, we, we have our, our band practice is on Monday night, and during the summer we, uh, we have concerts every Monday night in the park, and, uh, we, we have, you know, some concerts during the year,
and, you know, various people in the communities want us to play for things, but those are usually on the weekend, so that isn't too bad. How big is your band? Well, we got, uh, pretty good size band. Not everybody shows up, but if everyone did we'd probably have over a hundred but we only average about forty to fifty people a, you know, usually. Ooh. Well, that's still a pretty good size band. Yeah. It's not like there are four or five of you there. Oh, no, no. This is a, it's a concert band, and, uh, we have a lot of, I, I don't pretend to be that good, but there's a lot of people that, uh, you know, are band directors at schools, or have been, or, uh, you know, there some people that are actually music majors.
They don't necessarily follow that any more, you know, that isn't necessarily their career, but, uh, we have some extremely good talent in there, and, uh, as a rule, it sounds pretty decent, so It's fun. I, I have absolutely no musical ability whatsoever, and I'm always very envious of people who do. Well, I don't know if I have any or not. I, I've always enjoyed it. I sing in a church choir on Wednesday nights when I'm around, and play in the band on Monday nights, and keeps you out of trouble that way. Well, I'm probably one of the few people that the, Okay, Lee. Tell me about your ideas on this, uh, the U S government supporting health insurance and so forth. Well, I think it's inevitable that we are going to see national health care and the reason is because the market place doesn't seem to have performed adequately, uh, the invisible hand that which Adam Smith wrote has, uh, provided some very good health care and, uh, much, I think inadequate health care. Uh, and in some cases, the absence of health care has resulted from market place forces and I think, uh, it's inevitable. It is just a matter of, uh, time and mistakes and they're both inevitable.
Well what is this going to do the insurance companies who are supporting this work now and hopefully are doing, uh, a good job? Well, it's going to make it tough for them and it's going to be a difficult transition. I don't know, uh, how it's going to, uh, play out in terms of the particulars, but I don't think that society will be willing to tolerate the current health care crisis for too long. Our, uh, physical and mental and spiritual health, uh, it's really, uh, very costly. Yes. And, uh, as a society we are paying a staggering price for this. Well this is what's bothering me, Lee, another question, My, do you think that there should be some control, uh, innovated such that the doctors are not allowed to charge ridiculously over priced things. We realize that for the individual person, some things are very important. Uh, matter of fact, in some respects their life might depend on it. Right. But, by the same token some of these charges they make for well, minor endeavors, shall we say on the parts the doctors are really out of line. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, there are they're abusive of privileges There should be some control of that.
Yes and that is what is giving the local, uh, insurance companies hard times. That is the one thing we have no control over are these charges that happen when you go to hospitals and you get something done and they want to charge twenty thousand dollars for it. Right. Well, this I think is one of the things that national health care of some sort of evolutionary process over the next ten, or twenty or thirty years will address. Because I know this is, addressed by, uh, in Canada. I, I have a good friend who is, uh, a physician practicing in Canada. And they made the transition, uh, and I think that the, uh, for example the duplication of magnetic resonance imageries uh, Yes. We have had several of them. My wife and I both have had that recently. I've, I've had one myself and, uh, they're wonderful technology, but cities have three or four more than they need or three or four times the number they need. So, I think that what the market place doesn't do because of the way the system has worked and it doesn't allocate resources oftenly because there is a tendency, uh, at least there has been a tendency to drive up the price of medical care primarily because the insurance companies could pass on the bills,
but it's begun to change all of that. The people paying the bills, uh, employers ultimately, have begun to squawk because they have seen their health care cost rise two hundred percent in the past ten years. Yeah. So, I think the evolution will be interesting. Uh, Hawaii has a system that is apparently working and, uh, it will be interesting to see how, how, uh, much more attention we pay to that. I do think though that it is inevitable primarily because of the pain, uh, that people are feeling, uh, under the circumstances. Uh, I believe that it will contribute to something that we would at this point call national health care, whether it's subsidized by the government and and operated by private insurers, uh, I don't know. I like that idea. I tend to be one of those people who believes the market place can under varied circumstances with the profit incentive work very very well. Uh, I, we would be a lot better off if we, if we, contracted our national defense to a group who rather that operated as a government entity because we would probably have much less waste. See, that, that bothers me about the government see, uh, my, Well that's, that's the problem with government, uh, administration of these programs and that is one of the things that we as society are going to have to deal with. Government is going to have to change in this regard. Do you think that that these insurance things should be covered on a State basis or U S government basis? You know, that is really a tough one for me to answer.
I don't, uh, I would like to see the greatest improvement in management. My, my, my field is the cognitive sciences and I recognize that a lot of these things that are done, are done, uh, as a function of the operating systems in place. And those operating systems have to change and and as we become more efficient in developing machine operating systems we're going to develop more efficient human operating systems and so a State or federal application, uh, could work. Uh, it all depends upon the way you structure the environment. We may have to deal with, I'm ready. Well in Atlanta, Georgia you probably have a lot more crime than we have here in Patterson, California. Oh could, could be. Uh, this little city is only about eight thousand people. Huh. So. Yeah, we, is, is crime a problem there? like a major problem, minor problem or, Well in Patterson there's, it's not a problem here.
But like, uh, I lived in Oakland, uh, until just recently Uh-huh. and, uh, Oakland, California, God, they've had like, uh, sixty-seven murders so far this year compared to like, uh, forty at this time last year. Yeah. So it's really bad there. Yeah. And, and it's all related to drugs it seems like. Oh, yeah. Is that what it's there too? Yeah. I've only been here for like, uh, probably just over six months I start, I started school here. Uh-huh. Uh, I came from a smaller town in, in New York Uh-huh. and the city was fairly big size or not real big but we had a problem there but here there's just no comparison that, much more crime. Uh-huh. Uh, every night the news is very depressing because it just, they run down the list of how many people were shot, you know, drive by shootings or whatever
Yeah. and it's, it, it's pretty bad. They're, they're, it's, things have basically improved here over the last few years. They've, they've actually taken steps to try to make it better but it still, it still is a problem. Yeah. Like I don't know what they can do to make it better unless they just hire more policemen. Well that's, that seems to be what they were doing and it has, and they've started, stepped up more patrols in certain areas and it has has made some places safer Uh-huh. but, you know, it's very difficult. I mean if you don't have an infinite amount of money to, to try to stop the problem although most people wish you could as it is a, it's definitely a problem Uh-huh, uh-huh. and you know, the more, more, less that's done about it the more it seems it tends to spread into smaller areas unfortunately. Uh-huh. Yeah.
Well I, I think that if they would do something to these people that they do catch instead of just slapping their little hands Right. and, you know, then maybe those other people would be kind of scared and they would not do these bad things, you know. Yeah, I think, I think that, uh, it's, uh, seems to be that, I don't know, some people they they do something, you know, they shoot somebody or whatever, they go to jail, sentenced to jail for like thirty years they're out in five and they're back on the street and then they shoot someone else and just a, a cycle and it seems, seems as though the, the system doesn't tend to stop them unless something is drastic is done. Yeah. I just don't understand our, our laws here. Because, you know, like in other countries, man, I mean, they're really a lot stricter than we are. Yeah. It's, definitely true. It seems, seems as though we try to play humanitarian I think to, a little to much *typo too and maybe some of the people don't deserve the, the humanitarian treatment that they get.
Uh-huh, uh-huh. But I don't know. It's a difficult situation I think and some, something has to be done because I definitely think it's, it, it really plays, reeks havoc with your quality of life when, you know, you can see it's going on around you but then when, once it finally affects you then, then it really starts to bother you. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Uh, But it seems, I mean, people have moved like out of the city because they want to get away from the crime and so they tend to spread the cities farther and farther out but, you know, it's only a matter of time before, you know, it still catches up with them. You can't really run away from the problem Yeah. and something, you know, something has to be done but just that too many people argue about how to fix it. Yeah. I know when I lived in Oakland, it was just that, uh, like, I definitely wouldn't go into certain areas of, of the city by myself. Oh, sure. And, uh, and then, then again some areas I wouldn't go by myself after dark you know. Right.
Right. But down here, in Patterson, well like I say, it's so small that you can go anywhere. Yeah. Yeah, that's good . But just, uh, like twenty miles away see in Modesto, they have, uh, those gangs and things over there. Right. And it, it's bad. In Sacramento also, they have, uh, drive by shootings it seems like all the time. Yeah. So, I don't know. Yeah. I just, I just don't know what, what they can do you know. Yeah. It's, it's to bad because it's, uh, I mean, just even the random occurrences where, you know, it's unsafe for a woman just to walk from the car to the, some, in certain areas like from the car, from their car to the mall or something and it's dangerous. I know. And it's just, that's just ridiculous and you know, it's just, that's just not right. Something you know .
Yeah, I mean like even, even going to the grocery store. I know we've had this one lady that was attacked, you know. Right, right. I mean, just, you just, you just don't know what to do anymore, you know. Right. And some of the times it's happening in the daytime too, you know, so it's not always happening at dark. Yeah. So I don't know. Yeah, it's definitely unfortunate Okay. Uh, let me see I've been sitting here awhile. I almost forgot the topic. But, uh, it seems like I get most of my news from television. I'm, we only get the paper on the weekends and so I'm not much of a, of a paper reader
or but I, I and I'm don't, rarely listen to the, uh, radio so I get most of my news like from documentaries like FORTY-EIGHT HOURS, TWENTY TWENTY, you know, the news at night. News in the afternoon, that kind of thing. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Well I get a, weekend paper as well and, uh, in addition to that I get a local weekly. I, I live in suburb of Milwaukee Uh-huh. and they get, they have community newspapers around here so the local, their extremely local stuff uh, is in the local paper that comes out once a week Uh-huh. and then I get the Sunday, uh, MILWAUKEE JOURNAL because I don't have time to read a paper. Uh, mostly that's my difficulty. Right. I, uh, I get my news pretty much from the same sources as you do, although I do listen to N P R which has very good, and that's National Public Radio which has very good, uh, coverage of the national and international news, I feel and does a pretty good job of analysis as well. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Are you in the car quite a bit or, No, I'm not actually. Uh,
but I can run my radio in my office. I, I teach at the university Oh. and when I'm not teaching, if I choose to have the radio on I can listen to that station, Oh. so. Uh-huh. Oh, I see. Uh, How are you, are you satisfied with the TWENTY TWENTY and FORTY-EIGHT HOURS and the things that you do watch? Yeah. I, I, I pretty much am and I watch the news at least twice a day. Uh-huh. So, uh, if I've missed something and, and I've just recently decided to stay home with my children and so it seems as if I catch the news right as it happens, you know. Uh-huh. There was the explosions and that kind of thing. My husband will say how did you know about that. Yes, it happened at such and such time
And that's so, that, that's different for me. So I usually find out exactly when it happens and that kind of thing. Is that the aspect of the news that you're most interested in is, is the timely noting of the events as they happen? Is that what you feel good about in the news coverage? Uh, no it just seems like since I've recently stayed home, that is what's happened, you know. It's just that, uh, now that I've stayed home, I'm, I'm usually aware of when these things occurred Uh-huh. and it happened and, Well, I, myself, uh, the reason why I listen to N P R and the reason why I watch MACNEIL LEHRER, rather than the, than the network news shows at night, although I do watch a local ten o'clock in the evening news which carries over a lot of the national news stories uh, is that quite often it seems to me the national doesn't do a very good job of analysis. Right, right. The local doesn't either but I feel that MACNEIL LEHRER get a little more deeply into some, some of the issues that are really current. Uh-huh And perhaps newspapers do that but as I said, I don't have time to sit down and read a newspaper and frankly when I have read a newspaper I haven't noticed that kind of analysis either. Uh-huh.
Huh. So. Uh, there's, there is some danger to that, of course, too. Because if the analysis is inaccurate or biased or whatever then, you know, how good is it. But, uh, I like a little more indepth coverage and I think that's what you're, maybe appealing to you too on something like TWENTY TWENTY or FORTY-EIGHT HOURS. Right. Right. It kind of gives you the whole story or more of the story. Uh-huh. That kind of thing. Yeah. So. Uh, I'm more interested in trying to understand what's going on in the world rather than simply being aware that, you know, there, that an event has occurred Yeah. Yeah. I, I like to stand back and get a slightly bigger picture. Maybe because I'm easily confused by detail. I don't know Uh-huh. Yeah,
I know what you're saying. Yeah. So. But I try and catch most of those programs on Wednesday's and Friday's and if I miss them, I try you know, I try and, and tape them if I'm out that kind of thing, I try and tape them and so I can sit back and watch them. And it's pretty interesting. When, you have young children, right? Uh-huh. So those evening shows are probably also at a time when you're at liberty to take some time off and be in front of the T V set for awhile without interruption. Well, yeah. Plus, I find that I have to video tape quite a bit of things Oh, you do? Uh-huh. If I don't want any interruptions, you know. Uh-huh. That kind of thing. When is your good watching time?
Uh, it seems like ten o'clock at night Uh-huh. Yes. Yeah, that's what, Unfortunately, but that, that's what it seems like, ten o'clock at night. I have older children and getting dinner on the table. Uh-huh I come from the east coast and I was, it amazed me when I got out here to the midwest and found out that even though they're an hour earlier in time, they still watch the news when, Uh, in Texas they do have the, uh, capital punishment and, uh, I, I I, I'm probably one that has to agree with it too. Uh, there some things that go on that I just feel that I, I, just feel, that, that, that is a need. I don't know. A lot of people don't feel that way either but I just feel that Well I don't know how much publicity it's gotten outside of the state
but California we just put somebody to death uh, for, I think it was a double murder. Uh-huh. Uh, to be honest, I didn't pay that much attention, uh, to the details of it. Uh, but it had a lot of controversy out here. Uh, basically, because in California people like to protest about everything. Uh, but I agree, I believe that, that there are a number of crimes that capital punishment is the best way to go. Uh-huh Uh, the big disagreement I have is that in California, the appeals process, uh, is so extensive and takes so long that you end up spending a huge amount of money in like ten to fifteen years before you can actually, you know, put somebody to death for, for a crime. Yeah. Yeah, that is a consequence, yeah. And, I mean, that's, that's ridiculous. I mean if you can, you know, the trial is supposed to prove, you know, within a reasonable doubt that the person is guilty, and then they have appeals. Well, that's fine but it shouldn't take more, than a few years. I mean, I should think two or three years maximum, you should be able to know Right.
and you should be able to either put the guy to death or he's innocent. I mean it's, if he's guilty for, for, you know, multiple murders or whatever the case may be you know. Right. Uh-huh. Well maybe that's something that needs to be worked on. Yeah. But I, I just feel that, that capital punishment needs to stay within the system. Not all states have them but I, you know, was that, was that the, I'm not sure if that was in, was that the man that, that claimed he was abused or, Yeah, he was like, uh, the the defense, the defense they're were giving, given was that, uh, like his mother had, had been an alcoholic when, when she was pregnant with him And that he had he , Oh, yeah. and so he, he wasn't, you know, mentally competent or anything else. Which is ridiculous, Yeah.
and, and the court found him competent, uh, and he knew what he was doing and everything else. I mean you know, it was, it was the best defense they could come up with. Yeah. And how long had he been appealing How long was that? I forget. I think it was something like twelve years or something. Gosh. Boy. It was, it was something really outrageous. Yeah Boy. Well, I mean and it seems like it, it rarely does happen. You know, it's not, it's not used that often you know. At least here in Texas Yeah. but I think it's something that needs to stay. I really do I think in general, uh, punishment in the United States is a lot weaker than it should be. I mean, it needs to be, you know,
it's kind of like the, the justice system in the United States is kind of like the dog poops on the carpet and you wait three months and then you put his nose in it and spank him for it. You know. Yeah. I mean there, there's no connection between the two. Right, right. Yeah. I mean you take these, you know, most of the people who are committing violent crimes, most of them, not all by any means, but, you know, a large percentage are the kind of people who are living very much day to day in the first place. Uh-huh. Uh, they don't really see past next week much less next year. Uh-huh. And to say, you know, well if I kill somebody then a decade from now, I might face the punishment. Yeah. That's not real. It doesn't have any real impact on them. My sister and I were wondering about this recently because a, an old friend of ours in California, this happened about a week ago. Uh-huh. Uh, her husband just killed her
and we're wondering if that has an effect. If that, if something, does capital punishment, you know, does it happen with that, within that, uh, I don't know Uh, you mean, would he be put to death for that? Right. Uh, largely depends on the circumstances and generally, you know, from what I understand, it's, it's only the most brutal types of things usually. Where it's multiple, you know. I think you're right. If, if they can say things like, you know, well he was just, you know, temporarily insane because of, some domestic squabble then you know, they'll, they'll give him, you know, twenty years with, with parole in, in twelve or something like that Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, I have an uncle that is an attorney that defends people All righty. Uh, I guess our topic today is air pollution. And we are to just discuss what substances do you think that contribute most to air pollution, as well as what society can do to improve the air quality of the atmosphere around us. Right. Um, does your work entitle, uh, anything of environmental along these lines? Me, I'm in the legal department
and, um, we do have, uh, a group of attorneys who handle our environmental issues. Uh-huh. And I don't know too much about the air pollution thing. I do know for other types of pollution like the toxic waste and such that T I has to dispose of that we normally put in the ground, you know, we're coming up with a, uh, a new solution. We have been finding a lot of toxic places to dump and we just transport to these places. But after awhile it always seems that the, um, oh, the site starts to leak and then you have to clean it up and such. But the new idea is to take everything up to Sherman, and we're going have that, you know, incineration place up there and, dump everything there. Right. And supposedly that facility will not generate air pollutants from what I've heard, that everything would be in, in, you know, a confined kind of incinerator and just burn it all up. And that we won't be polluting the air. I'm sure we have to have, uh, permits, you know, for that place. And that there's, you know, limits as to what we can, uh, let, you know, go into the air. Yeah. It's, uh, uh, uh, well, I work in , I work in environmentals, uh, projects right now. Oh, okay. And so the Sherman deal is, um, uh, lost a lot of hair over that project. Oh
Uh, what we run into, um, is we have the Texas Air Control Board, T A C B, that send out, uh, jurisdictions under which we have to, uh, uh, reply to. Uh-huh. And a lot of their rules and regulation aren't real clear, so we have our manager of environmental, who assist the T A C B, which is located in Austin, in writing and, hey, look what we've done here at T I. Uh-huh. And, uh, we are presently, uh, in receipt of a site permit, which will allow us to, um, uh, this is our side allow to have certain emissions up to a certain tonnage. Uh-huh. It's in, in, in tons per year. Um, Okay. and so, you know, what we do to make contributions so that, basically, we go and do things like put in high-tech scrubber systems, uh, that, uh, scrub out the, N O X and, uh, V O C's and, and ammonia compounds, uh, like all the acids, to a certain level. We, are very, um, aware of the opacity, which is the thickness of a stack emissions. Uh-huh. So if you don't see anything coming out of a stack the opacity is zero or twenty or thereabouts. And so what we go through is, uh, if you see it smoking there's a problem. And having worked with some of the legal folks very closely, uh, it becomes a real issue, especially, when it's smoking and you have to get it fixed el pronto. Um. As you know, they, they're allowed to come on site, the federaldes, anytime they want, drive through, and see, and inspect.
Um. So it's a full time, uh, everybody has their home phone number type of job. Um, Now is that place built or you're still on the makings of it? The Sherman facility, we are still in the, closer too, but still have a little bit of, um, finalization to do. Right. It's been pitched to the Sherman City Council with, um, open arms, as well as the public. Uh-huh. We had open forum and, and, uh, uh, Tom Jones, our environmental, corporate environmental guys handle the project. Uh-huh. And, uh, its real, uh, going real well. I think it's matter, just a matter of fund, funds right now as I understand it. Uh, Uh-huh. but it's, uh, it's something else. Yeah. they're, they're, they're in the same issue. We were hoping on burning a lot of the effluent up there. Uh, because the, the system is setup where it won't have any emissions. You're correct.
It will have something coming out of the stackhouse it was, it was human nature. Right. But it won't have can any, uh, any bad stuff. So, uh, I think T I, we spend, of all the major semiconductor firms, we probably put safety and environmental on the utmost, foremost, uh, uh, first thing we always look at. And we probably put more money into the systems and engineering behind the system of any other firm I know of. We eat and sleep the stuff, everything we do over here. and, uh, it's an interesting job. But um, Well, I know from some of the sites that we've had, uh, quite a list of cites that have gone bad and you have to clean up. And, you know the law now is the super fund and anybody who's contributed toxic waste, no matter if you were somebody that eventually, you know, uh, damaged the ground or not. Uh, everybody has to contribute and it's been a lot of big bucks when we've gotten, uh, gotten pulled into these super fund deals to clean it up and, you know, mega bucks to, uh, you know take everything out and redo it and, you know, fill in some other area and, um, certainly, it would to have a better solution, like the Sherman facility than, um, just letting it go in the ground. Because eventually, you know, it, it seems that no matter what they do, if they put it in oil drums and then seal it in some kind of cement lined, uh, dump area. It still only in time starts to leak out. Possibly. Yeah. Uh-huh.
There, there was one site that they cleaned up and then the new place leaked again. . Yeah. I'm familiar with that one. We have, we have stuff that's very interesting, uh, we have hoods, we have duckwork and all those type of interesting pieces of equipment where, um, they have, um, that we sample Uh-huh. and it may have over, uh, a certain emission levels, this is on the solid side , and so we take it and, uh, we can't deep well inject something like that because it's a solid. And we mix it with concrete and actually, um, potash, per se, and concrete and then actually put it in the ground. But not so, not in a hazardous waste location because it's, basically, a concrete slab. Uh-huh. Um. It was totally legal. But the cost of doing this is astronomical, they actually show you what duckwork and things. Um, And so we were, uh, very, very, uh, cognizance of, and aware of all these types of, uh, expenditures because it could get very expensive. But I think we, uh, you know, we do all kinds of things to make the, the world a better place to live, you know,
I think some of the folks that aren't aware of it will be surprised at how much effort and energy is put into doing that. I really would. Um, I've enjoyed speaking with you, Yeah. This has been an interesting topic. Uh, I was one of the, I was responsible for all the planning and engineering over the corporate, or in the north building Oh, you were? Yeah. Oh, okay. So, uh, I hope you like your office. Yes. Yes. It's a heck of a lot different. And we used to be really embarrassed about the gray metal desk. We were about the only, place in, you know, T I that had the gray metal desk. Yeah. People used to come and laugh and go, gee, I hadn't seen one of those ten, fifteen years. Yeah. Glad to see y'all taken care of.
Well, the, uh, I think what changed everything and, uh, is, uh, y'all were, y'all were the only ones that make any money for TI, here in the last ten years, We, finally got a little respect. Nobody thought of us as a profit center before. Exactly. And that's, um, when, when you start, when you start paying your way, uh, you know, Jerry takes a different outlook towards you guys. Right. Right. I was just, Not just overhead. Exactly. I've enjoyed speaking with you. You too. See you later. Bye-bye. Bye. Okay, in order to make the, uh, curried chicken, I just fried the chicken, until it was nice and brown, you know Uh-huh. make sure it's nice and brown on both sides and then you take it out of the fat
and you, you let the chicken you fried kind of drain, so that a lot of the oil comes out of it Uh-huh. And then you, you, uh, pour most of the, all of the oil out of the pan and you kind of clean it out and you put back maybe two tablespoons full of the oil and saute some, um, bell peppers and onions in, in that little bit of oil. Maybe one tablespoon or two tablespoons, let that brown, then put all of the chicken back in there. And then you, uh, mix flour and a cup of water, maybe, uh, one tablespoon of flour and a cup of water. Stir it real, real well. Uh-huh. Then you, uh, pour that in there, you know, to make the gravy. And you let it come to a boil again and then you let it simmer and you add, uh, about a tablespoon of, what I'm using now is Jamaican curry powder. Oh. And that's going to, it's going to be really good That's very spicy, too. Yeah, it's, I mean these bell peppers and curry. Right,
and then if you like it really hot, you can add some hot, hot peppers and hot sauce and all that kind of stuff. Oh, that sounds really good. Yeah. Huh. I guess it was, is this dinner time for you? Uh, well it will be in a little while, I'm trying to get it, get it ready early. All done in advance, yeah. That's um, I, uh, I'm, I'm not that great a cook but I was single until I was thirty so I did cook a little, you know. Oh. Uh, and I cook a little bit now. What I like to do mostly is stir fries and my wife normally says, oh, Tom, why, why don't you make a stir fry tonight and so we even, we just were recently married so we have a stir fry pan sort of like a big wok. Uh-huh. And we do a lot of, um, stir fry vegetables.
What kind of wok do you have, is it, is it a real Chinese wok. It's, it's called a stir fry pan and it, and it fits right on your, uh, it fits right on your burner, whether it's gas or electric so it's, it has a flatter bottom than a normal wok does. Uh-huh. I see. And, um, normally what what we do is, um, just, you know, like two tablespoons of oil, maybe sesame oil or some other type of oil than just regular vegetable oil. But I will use peanut, peanut oil, or things. And then we just stir fry broccoli and carrots and, um, green peppers, and, um, maybe put in a little bit of, um garlic and ginger, uh, beforehand. That gives, uh, uh, uh, spicier flavor and then after the stir fry is over, just mix in, um, a little bit of, uh, sometimes chicken broth, and corn starch and soy sauce Yeah. and that sort of makes a, uh, a glaze, that sticks to the, the vegetables, Uh-huh. I've used, you turn them over. A lot of times when we do stir fry we just put in tofu, we don't put in meat, cause I guess we're, I'm not Uh-huh.
but, uh, she likes to watch all the, how much red meat and things, so. We'll do, a lot of times vegetarian. Yeah. But it's a real good meal because you have squash and broccoli and, uh, carrots and celery and green peppers and, um, oh, gee, mushrooms. Oh that's, That sounds real good except the squash, It's, it's a pretty big and we put that over rice. I just don't like squash. Oh, you don't I never did. My mother used to cook a whole pan full of squash and she'd have squash and corn bread Oh. And maybe some, she'd have chicken or something. Uh-huh. And I'd just be, Yeah, see, we never, in fact I never had squash growing up. My, my wife eats more vegetables, ate more vegetable than I did growing up. I'm, I'm from Pittsburgh
and Pittsburgh is a very meat and potato town. Uh-huh. Yeah, recipes in Pittsburgh consisted of red meat and a potato. Uh-huh. Red meat and a potato. Oh, that sounds good. We, we were from North Carolina and we had a garden and my mother would, would, uh, grow the squash and she'd grow white potatoes and onions and cabbage and collards and all kinds of, Oh, she had all of those types of vegetables. Right. See, never, no vegetables in my family. Wow. Yeah, it was really funny. You wouldn't believe it, we even raised chickens Well that was a real farm. You ever seen anybody kill a chicken?
No, but I, I've, I've heard stories uh, I've heard stories. And they put the head under a tin tub and chop the head off. Uh. And then you hear the chicken jumping around under the tub and finally it dies down, you get just a little patter and then it, Oh, this is you shouldn't be talking about this right before, while you're fixing dinner. Getting ready to eat chicken too. That's right, you should be careful That's pretty funny. But my dad used to tell stories, you know, about the way they eat chickens but I never, we never, we lived in the suburbs, we, we bought everything in a grocery store. Uh-huh. There was no,
but it was funny, you know, it so, but when we got married, you know, a lot more vegetables, a lot more, you know, a lot of changes. Well that's good. A lot of people are eating healthier now a days. I think so too, Yeah. but we just went shopping and we came back with, uh, with, uh, sweets, you know, chocolate covered peanuts and uh, we came back with sweets. Ugh. We didn't bring all the healthy food back too. Yeah, I'm trying to learn how to cook, um, deserts without, without all of the sweets, you know, maybe use honey or something. Uh-huh, well that's, that's supposed to be, um, the trend of the future, but, uh, the cut back. Yeah. I, uh, recently was over a friends house that's Indian and, uh, she had brought Indian sweets into the office and it was really funny because they were made from yogurt and carrots.
Ugh. Yeah, that was a sweet and I was like ugh. This is a sweet. Oh it is, it's a candy, I'm like ugh, you know, Indian candy is not very good. Uh, right. But everything was, and everything, you didn't notice it at first, but everything was sort of hot. Everything had a little bit of curry in it. The spice, yeah. It was funny, even the sweets did. Wow. When you first took a bite of them you didn't notice it but then after a couple of minutes you could taste it. You know, it had that, that after taste that, very, it was a very Indian flavor.
Yeah. Good, they didn't have, I didn't like her desserts very well, they were very, yogurt and carrots and pistachios, pistachio nuts and yogurt. Uh-huh. And it wasn't very good. Well I might have liked some of that I, I like hot stuff, Uh-huh. I really do. Yeah, well have we done our ten minutes. Oh is it ten minutes. Something like that, I think we're, I don't know, do we get a signal. No, normally they just come in
and they say you've overextended your, your conversation. Oh, well this is my first one. Oh, okay well that's, you'll see it will normally, it will come on and it'll say you've over extended your conversation, you now have fifteen minutes to fifteen seconds to complete it. Oh wow. But, uh, I've been cut off twice. Uh-huh. So I just thought, in fact I'm just also, I'm hearing a siren outside I think my, my neighbors car must have got bumped, you know, he has one of those alarms on his car, Goodness. one of the, the neighbor has an alarm on a car and it's going off. Uh-huh. So, I was going to go out and see what they were doing. Well, okay. Okay,
hey thanks so much. Yeah, thank you, it was nice talking with you. Uh-huh, and you said this was your well you'll, you'll get a couple more probably. Yeah. I, uh, I called yesterday, I, or Friday, maybe I talked to somebody that, uh, I got them on, uh, during the day. It was a housewife and she was home with two kids. Ugh. And while we're talking the kids are screaming in the background, you know, that they wanted something and they were arguing back and forth and she just kept talking the whole time, it was pretty funny. Yeah, kind of hard that way. Okay.
Okay. Hey thanks a lot, I'll talk to you later. All right, thank you, bye-bye. Bye. Okay, so, uh, do you own a P C? Um, no, not personally but, But you have one at work. Yes, uh-huh, Yeah, several Okay, and, now because, um, see I'm, I'm doing my, uh, Master's in Computer Science and Computer Engineering.
Uh-huh. And, um, and I, I don't have one, but I have to use them, like during, especially during my undergrad. Right. Uh-huh. You, you use, um, like your first couple of years you use personal computers because, uh, you know, the software. You know, like it's easier for you to go to and run a program, you know, through the disk, because, um, the grader can do it at home. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. Then, as the, you know, as you go up higher, like in your senior level, you're doing projects which are, are so big, and you have to have so many people sharing the same data, that you can't use personal computers, so you have to use, you know, a main frame. Uh-huh. Right, right. Yeah, I know I, uh, I do have a, uh, you know, a computer at home, but it's one that the company has loaned me. Oh, okay.
And, that, that's been my situation, is that, uh, that way I can get in, access our, uh, computers that I have up here and, you know, do work from home. But does it have, uh, like, a disk drive? Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh, okay, because, uh, the ones that we use, you know, are like UNIX base systems. Right. Uh-huh. And, so they don't have a disk drive. Right. You know, so you can't, the only way that you can do it is through a modem. Right. And, you, you know, you just do it that way. Yeah. But, that's, uh, that's the only way that you can get to, through to the system, you can't store it anywhere. Right.
Yeah, no I, um, I, I have both, because that, that's what I use all the time is UNIX Systems. Um, versus the DOS. But then I teach DOS classes, uh, at night. Oh, okay. Uh-huh, part time. So, And then you also have to do all your grading on the P C. Well, that, that's the really neat thing, I teach in the continuing education classes, so I don't, uh, I don't have to have any grades, no grade books, so that's great Oh, okay. But, no, I find that I use the, the personal computer a lot though for my WordPerfect, and also for my spread sheets. Okay. Yeah. Um, so I think it's extremely helpful and very useful. Well, uh, for us it's, uh, uh, you know, it's like for doing like, you know, like resumes, and, presentations. Uh-huh. Um, um. Uh-huh. We use like for example, a Mackintosh, which is a lot easier for graphics, than the than you know, the I B M P C's or anything compatible with that.
Yeah. Right. Due, due to the fact that, well, you know, I, I haven't tested the, the P S two yet. Um, um. Uh-huh. but I don't know if the software is as easily, you know, like you can manage it a lot easier than, than the old one. Right. The old one you had to go pick a line, use little arrows to go onto the screen and check where you wanted to start, and where, you know, with the mouse you do it, you know, like, a hundred times faster. Right. That's true. That's true. And, uh, you also get, you know, when you see it on the Mackintosh with, you know, the one I have, that doesn't have any color, you can look at it and that's the way it's going to print out. Uh-huh. And, especially if you have a laser printer, it's going to print out the same way as it's on the screen. Oh, Uh-huh. And, so, with, you know, with the I B M what would happen is, uh, since the software that I had was, it was basically, you know, you only see part of the page. Uh-huh.
And, so, the whole page you, you never can actually see it, Oh. you just draw it and they have to zoom out and zoom in and, you know, it's like, every time that you have to do something is, it's really a pain. What a hassle, yeah, yeah. And, also, you know, it's like for, for presentations, it's like if you have to do any statistical data it can be easily represented on a, on a P C. Uh-huh. it can be easily represented on a, on a P C. You know, like years back when you didn't have that you would have to map out all this, all these numbers. Yeah. and get a graph which you weren't sure if it was okay or not, you know. Right. Yeah. But, with a, with a new system I can calculate everything so fast, you know, like for spread sheets. Uh-huh. Right.
Right. You can see what the trend is over the years. Yeah. And, I love all the windows that they have out now too, Yeah, that, that they have really simplified things. I, I had a, I had a program due and uh, one, one window I had the program and the other one I had the program running. so if there was ever a mistake, I could easily check, you know, Right. Right. I could look at the program and say, this is where I made the error. Right. Instead of saying, where did I make the error? Uh-huh. You know, go back and forth and, and, you know, you always, you know, the old ones you had to go out of your program, load up, um, uh, well load up the program again, in this case. Uh-huh.
After you load it up change it, hope that's right, get out of that, run the program, run, uh-huh, as long as it took, and then go back and see if that worked or not. Yes. Yes. Yeah. But with windows you can have the program and say it messed up in line fifty-four. Yeah. So, you take a look at line fifty-four, you take a look at the output at the same time, and you can see that, where it messed up, because, you know it's like in the old computers, the ones that, uh, we're using here a couple of years ago, you would always have to have a printout, Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, I know, I, uh, I remember my college days And having to do that too. did, did you learn it in computer science? Oh, yeah, uh-huh.
I sure did. And, when was this. Uh, I graduated in eighty-six. Oh, okay. Yeah. So it's been fairly recent. Yeah, I know because, uh, all I know is that when I came here in eighty-seven, they still had, uh, it was the last year to, to put all your punch cards in. The cards. Oh, oh dear. I didn't have to bother with that at all, thank goodness. Yeah. So, yeah. No, but it, it was just sensational because I walked in and they go, Oh, my God, they're still using this. Yes. It was like, this is the last year you can put your punch cards in and get your program out and, you know You can get a hard copy of it, Wow,
wow. and that's about it. Uh-huh, wow. So. But, I mean, the price of computers has gone down. They said that, um, if the auto industry would have kept the same trend as the computer industry has ever since, you know, it started, they said that, uh, cars would cost two dollars Uh-huh. and they would run forever. Oh, that would be great. So, I mean it's like, you know, the, the joke with the Yugo, you know, it's like, yeah, you know, like when your, uh, car runs out of gas just throw it away. Uh-huh. And, that, that's the way it would be. Wow. It's like yeah, I think I'll buy a new car today, you know, so, Yeah, but I mean the price has really gone down. I mean, I B M which, uh, an I B M P C in like in nineteen eighty-one it would cost you five thousand dollars,
Oh, sure, oh, sure. and now you can get it, you know, like for, one thousand dollars, because, you know, because of the parts basically. Right. Yeah, and the two eighty-six too, so, yeah. Yeah. The parts and the labor is what they're charging you, they're not charging you, you know, over pricing, it because it's like, if we sell it for less, you know, it's like we're losing money, you know. Uh-huh. Right. It's like we want to sell it to break even at least. Uh-huh. And, I think they stopped producing the I B M P C. Uh-huh. And, uh, and the, uh, P C Junior was a total failure, to them. Oh. Yeah. They had, uh,
they're trying to get out small computers, but, the only problem was that when they took that one out, the small computer was the I B M P C And, so, you couldn't, you know, it's like, sure bring out. into the market something that's smaller when nobody uses anything that's smaller than, you know, this, you know. Yeah. And, so. Oh. Uh-huh. But, over the past years it's like I B M has been producing like every two years they bring out a whole new system. You know, like the P C X T, A T, and the P S one, P S two things, you know, and so. It's just that you have to always compete and, uh, Mackintosh took a lot of the market from a lot of schools. Yeah. Because of, of their, you know, you can work with it a lot easier. Yeah. That's true. So, that's what they're trying to do. Oh, well, I'll leave you back to your work. Well. Okay.
And, uh, have a good lunch. Thanks. Bye. All right, bye, bye. All right. Now, we used to be big time campers but now we're not quite so much since the kids are involved so much in sports. Uh-huh. What type of camping did you do? Well when we, before we had kids, we was in a motorcycle group, you know, Uh-huh. we went like twenty or thirty at a time. We took, uh, just our little tents, Uh-huh. and we did it that way. Then when we started having children we bought a camper. You know, Oh, uh-huh. and we did it that way. Oh, how neat.
So, we've always enjoyed camping. Uh-huh. Well, I know I have, um, I just have a tent, and the kids and I like to go out and camp in the tent. Uh-huh. And then I bought a van and that way I can sleep in the van and be more comfortable yes. Now we have friends with a van, Uh-huh. and when they go on vacation a lot of times they'll just sleep in the van, you know. Right. Yeah. Like one night and the next night they'll stay at the motel, you know, or something like that. Uh-huh. And they enjoy it. Yes, I don't, I don't think I'm a real true, trooper, you know, when it comes, to camping. Oh,

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