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5800 | From: mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server)
Subject: Re: cause
Lines: 38
trajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre) writes:
>norris@athena.mit.edu writes:
> [some stuff deleted]
>> Fortunately for the convenience of us believers, there is a class of
>> questions that can never be reduced away by natural science. For
>> example: why does the universe exist at all?
>
>Must there be a "why" to this? I ask because of what you also
> assume about God-- namely, that He just exists, with no "why"
> to His existence. So the question is reversed, "Why can't
> we assume the universe just exists as you assume God to
> "just exist"? Why must there be a "why" to the universe?"
[remainder of message deleted]
Pardon me for replying to only a portion of your message :)
The reason we can say "God just exists" and can't say "The universe just
exists" is because the universe is a natural realm and is subject to natural
laws in general and the law of cause and effect in particular. That is, we
observe in nature that every cause has an effect, and every effect was produced
by a cause. The existence of the natural realm, as an effect itself, cannot be
its own cause; it must therefore have a supernatural cause.
God, on the other hand, is a supernatural being, and is therefore not subject
to such natural laws as the law of cause and effect. As a supernatural being,
God's eternal existence does not imply a previous cause the way the existence
of a physical, natural cosmos does. Thus, those who believe in the
supernatural have a valid basis for accepting the existence of uncaused
phenomena such as the eternal God, whereas those who deny the existence of the
supernatural are faced with the dilemma of a physical universe whose very
nature shows that it is not sufficient to explain its own existence.
This is, of course, an oversimplification of a complex topic, but I just wanted
to clarify some important differences between the supernatural (God) and the
natural (the universe), since you seem to mistake them as being
interchangeable.
- Mark
|
5801 | From: hilmi-er@dsv.su.se (Hilmi Eren)
Subject: Re: ARMENIA SAYS IT COULD SHOOT DOWN TURKISH PLANES (Henrik)
Lines: 95
Nntp-Posting-Host: viktoria.dsv.su.se
Reply-To: hilmi-er@dsv.su.se (Hilmi Eren)
Organization: Dept. of Computer and Systems Sciences, Stockholm University
|>The student of "regional killings" alias Davidian (not the Davidian religios sect) writes:
|>Greater Armenia would stretch from Karabakh, to the Black Sea, to the
|>Mediterranean, so if you use the term "Greater Armenia" use it with care.
Finally you said what you dream about. Mediterranean???? That was new....
The area will be "greater" after some years, like your "holocaust" numbers......
|>It has always been up to the Azeris to end their announced winning of Karabakh
|>by removing the Armenians! When the president of Azerbaijan, Elchibey, came to
|>power last year, he announced he would be be "swimming in Lake Sevan [in
|>Armeniaxn] by July".
*****
Is't July in USA now????? Here in Sweden it's April and still cold.
Or have you changed your calendar???
|>Well, he was wrong! If Elchibey is going to shell the
|>Armenians of Karabakh from Aghdam, his people will pay the price! If Elchibey
****************
|>is going to shell Karabakh from Fizuli his people will pay the price! If
******************
|>Elchibey thinks he can get away with bombing Armenia from the hills of
|>Kelbajar, his people will pay the price.
***************
NOTHING OF THE MENTIONED IS TRUE, BUT LET SAY IT's TRUE.
SHALL THE AZERI WOMEN AND CHILDREN GOING TO PAY THE PRICE WITH
**************
BEING RAPED, KILLED AND TORTURED BY THE ARMENIANS??????????
HAVE YOU HEARDED SOMETHING CALLED: "GENEVA CONVENTION"???????
YOU FACIST!!!!!
Ohhh i forgot, this is how Armenians fight, nobody has forgot
you killings, rapings and torture against the Kurds and Turks once
upon a time!
|>And anyway, this "60
|>Kurd refugee" story, as have other stories, are simple fabrications sourced in
|>Baku, modified in Ankara. Other examples of this are Armenia has no border
|>with Iran, and the ridiculous story of the "intercepting" of Armenian military
|>conversations as appeared in the New York Times supposedly translated by
|>somebody unknown, from Armenian into Azeri Turkish, submitted by an unnamed
|>"special correspondent" to the NY Times from Baku. Real accurate!
Ohhhh so swedish RedCross workers do lie they too? What ever you say
"regional killer", if you don't like the person then shoot him that's your policy.....l
|>[HE] Search Turkish planes? You don't know what you are talking about.<-------
|>[HE] since it's content is announced to be weapons? i
i
|>Well, big mouth Ozal said military weapons are being provided to Azerbaijan i
|>from Turkey, yet Demirel and others say no. No wonder you are so confused! i
i
i
Confused????? i
You facist when you delete text don't change it, i wrote: i
i
Search Turkish planes? You don't know what you are talking about. i
Turkey's government has announced that it's giving weapons <-----------i
to Azerbadjan since Armenia started to attack Azerbadjan
it self, not the Karabag province. So why search a plane for weapons
since it's content is announced to be weapons?
If there is one that's confused then that's you! We have the right (and we do)
to give weapons to the Azeris, since Armenians started the fight in Azerbadjan!
|>You are correct, all Turkish planes should be simply shot down! Nice, slow
|>moving air transports!
Shoot down with what? Armenian bread and butter? Or the arms and personel
of the Russian army?
Hilmi Eren
Stockholm University
|
5802 | From: luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: Allegheny College
In article <1993Apr15.214421.1@acad.drake.edu> sbp002@acad.drake.edu
writes:
I remember reading somewhere that 7% of the league was jewish during the
50's. Now, there is practically NOBODY
|
5803 | From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Subject: Re: Sleeping Pill OD
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science
Lines: 22
In article <1993Apr9.051039.715@scott.skidmore.edu> dfederma@scott.skidmore.edu (daniel federman) writes:
>
>A friend of mine took appoximately 60 CVS sleeping pills, each
>containing 25mg of diphenhydramine, I think. That's 1500 mg, total.
> I'm worried, though, about the long-term effects. Since he
>never had his stomach pumped, will he have liver or brain damage? Any
>information would be greatly appreciated.
Shouldn't have. But he may need to see the shrink about why he
wanted to kill himself. Depressed people can be succesfully treated
usually.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
5804 | From: gharriso@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Graeme Harrison)
Subject: Re: Boom! Dog attack!
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Lines: 30
Several years ago, while driving a cage, a dog darted out at a quiet
intersection right in front of me but there was enough distance
between us so I didn't have to slow down. However, a 2nd dog
suddenly appeared and collided with my right front bumper and
the force of the impact was enough to kill that Scottish Terrier.
Apparently, it was following the 1st dog. Henceforth, if a dog
decides to cross the street, keep an eye out for a 2nd dog as
many dogs like to travel in pairs or packs.
I've yet to experience a dog chasing me on my black GL1200I which
has a pretty loud OEM horn (not as good as Fiamms, but good enuff)
but the bike is large and heavy enough to run right over one of
the smaller nippers while the larger ones would have trouble
getting my leg between the saddlebags and engine guards. I'd
def feel more vulnerable on my '68 Trump as that'd be easier
leg chewing target for those mongrels.
If there's a persistent dog running after bikers despite
complaints to the owner I wouldn't be adverse to running
over it with my truck as a dogs life isn't worth much IMHO
compared to a child riding a bike who gets knocked to the
ground by said dog and dies from a head injury.
Any dog in the neighborhood that's vicious or a public menace
running about unleashed is fair game as road kill candidate.
Graeme Harrison
(gharriso@hpcc01.corp.hp.com) DoD#649
|
5805 | From: Wil.Chin@launchpad.unc.edu (Wilson Chin)
Subject: Re: DATman for sale.
Nntp-Posting-Host: lambada.oit.unc.edu
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Lines: 19
In article <bdavisC4yuM3.K3J@netcom.com> bdavis@netcom.com (Bryan Davis)
writes:
>Sony TCD-D3 DAT walkman for sale. Hardly used, still under
>warrantee. Comes with optical digital input/output as well as standard
>RCA analog cables. Includes recharable battery, charger, and AC adaptor.
>$650.00 or best offer.
Just to inform the readers of newsrc Sony has just introduced a new DATman,
the TCD-D7 which is smaller and less expensive than the D3. Also, the D7
has a coaxial jack which the D3 lacks. Oh, the D3 has always been
available through mail-order houses for less than $700 dollars new... with
the new model coming out, I suspect the now obsolete D3 will be selling for
even less.
--
The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
|
5806 | From: alanchem@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Alan Scott Olson)
Subject: Win NT - what is it???
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Lines: 18
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: alanchem@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Two-part question:
1) What is Windows NT - a 'real' windows OS?
2) This past weekend, a local 'hacker' radio show metioned a new product
from Microsoft called 'Chicago' if I recall. Anyone know what this is?
That is it -
Thanks a heap.
- Alan
--
______________/ Alan S. Olson Swanson Environmental, Inc. \_________________
/ e-mail to alanchem@csd4.csd.uwm.edu OR alan@alchemy.chem.uwm.edu \
| Want some good music? Check out Milwaukee's own BoDeans |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|
5807 | From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: Alaska Pipeline and Space Station!
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Lines: 20
In article <1993Apr5.160550.7592@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>Why can't the government just be a tennant?
>I think this would be a great way to build it, but unfortunately
>current spending rules don't permit it to be workable.
Actually, that is no longer true. In the last few years Congress has
ammended laws to provide whatever is needed. Note that both Spacehab
and Comet are funded this way.
The problems aren't legal nor technical. The problem is NASA's culture.
Allen
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves |
| aws@iti.org | nothing undone" |
+----------------------71 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX-----------------------+
|
5808 | Distribution: world
From: Kris_Kauper@fourd.com
Organization: 4th Dimension BBS
Subject: Re: A StyleWriter II question
Lines: 13
>I just read an article on the SWII. One thing puzzles me: the article says the
>SWII is a serial-only device. Does that mean I'll have to unplug my modem
each
>time I want to print something???
No. The printer port on the Mac is also serial. It has the same interface as
the ImageWriter II.
-Kris
********************************************************************
System: fourd.com Phone: 617-494-0565
Cute quote: Being a computer means never having to say you're sorry
********************************************************************
|
5809 | From: dan@danberg.llnl.gov (Dan Bergmann)
Subject: Need software for baseball stats
Article-I.D.: danberg.1qkq0q$8rl
Distribution: world
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Lines: 10
NNTP-Posting-Host: danberg.llnl.gov
I'm looking for software (hopefully free and runs on Unix box) which will
keep track of statistics for my company softball team (batting avg. etc.).
If you know of any please post or respond to me by e-mail. Many thanks.
--
**************************************************
** Dan Bergmann dbergmann@llnl.gov **
**************************************************
|
5810 | From: m23364@mwunix.mitre.org (James Meritt)
Subject: See? ( was Re: Apology to Jim Meritt (Was: Silence is concurance)
Nntp-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Distribution: usa
Lines: 45
In article <9473@blue.cis.pitt.edu> joslin@pogo.isp.pitt.edu (David Joslin) writes:
}m23364@mwunix.mitre.org (James Meritt) writes:
}>}So stop dodging the question. What is hypocritical about my
}>}criticizing bad arguments, given that I do this both when I agree
}>}with the conclusion and when I disagree with the conclusion?
}>
}>You are the one who has claimed to possess the fruits of precognition,
}>telepathy, and telempathy. Divine it yourself.
}
}Another dodge. Oh well. I'm no match for your amazing repertoire
}of red herrings and smoke screens.
}
}You asked for an apology. I'm not going to apologize for pointing out
}that your straw-man argument was a straw-man argument. Nor for saying
}that your list of "bible contradictions" shows such low standards of
}scholarship that it should be an embarrassment to anti-inerrantists,
}just as Josh McDowell should be an embarrassment to the fundies. Nor
}for objecting various times to your taking quotes out of context. Nor
}for pointing out that "they do it too" is not an excuse. Nor for calling
}your red herrings and smoke screens what they are.
How about the following inaccurate, unsubstantiated accusations:
In 8257@blue.cis.pitt.edu
>Jim has been threatening
- but no "threat" produced
>once he realized that
- display of telepathy
>threatening to quote me
- in spite of no "threat" produced, nor forecast ever happening (precognition?)
>responding Jim's threat to quote me
- in spite of claimed threat never being given
>Jim, preparing to...
- in spite of it never happening. telepathy or precognition?
>Jim again, still mystified
- unsubstantiated and untrue. more telepathy? Or maybe telempathy?
>Jim, still scandalized
- unsubstantiated again. Seems to be a habit...
Having more trouble with reality, it appears. Why get bothered with the facts when
you appear to have the products of paranatural divination methods?
*yawn*
|
5811 | From: howland@noc2.arc.nasa.gov (Curt Howland)
Subject: Re: Another question about synthetic engi
Article-I.D.: news.1993Apr6.020533.6165
Distribution: usa
Organization: NASA Science Internet Project Office
Lines: 21
In article <1993Apr5.133542.19077@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>,
fist@iscp.bellcore.com (Richard Pierson) writes:
|> Two years ago he went to work for CONRAIL as a mechanic.
|> On the EMD and GE power units (train engines) they NEVER
|> EVER change the oil, just the filters
I remember seeing an artical on large-engine oil
requirements, and one of the ways of prolonging
the life of the oil was to run through a heated
un-presurized chamber to allow water and volitiles
to boil off. This made such long-term usage of
oil practical.
Isn't the Discovery channel great!?!
---
Curt Howland "Ace" DoD#0663 EFF#569
howland@nsipo.nasa.gov '82 V45 Sabre
Meddle not in the afairs of Wizards,
for it makes them soggy and hard to re-light.
|
5812 | From: WHMurray@DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
Subject: Licensing.....
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Lines: 49
>This thread brings up the more general question. Can any crypto
>implementation for which highly publicly scrutinized source code is not
>available EVER be trusted?
After IBM had invented the DES and the NBS had advertised for proposals,
but before IBM had decided to respond, I argued strenuously that they
should not; they should keep it proprietary.
The biggest proponent of proposing was Dr. Lewis Branscomb. Dr. Branscomb
was the IBM Chief Scientist and had come to IBM from NBS. Fortunately
for all of us, Dr. Branscomb understood the answer to the above question
much better than I. He realized how difficult it would be to gain
acceptance for any cryptographic mechanism. Because of the necessary
complexity, publicity would not be sufficient and neither would
authority. In fact, it has taken both of those plus more than 15
years.
We have also had independence. The DES was solicited by NBS, invented
and proposed by IBM, and vetted by NBS. It has also been examined and
vetted by experts like Adi Shamir, who are not subject to influence by
any of these.
Even now, there are still people posting on this list who do not trust
the DES in spite of all the time, all of the analysis, and all of the
public scrutiny.
(Of course, it is just this point that NIST misses when it attempts to
gain acceptance for a novel mechanism, developed in secret, on the basis
of authority alone.)
We had a long thread here about whether or not the NSA can "break" the
DES. That is a silly question. At some cost and in some time they
can "break" anything. The important question is at what cost and in
what time.
The fundamental strength of the DES and RSA are not nearly so important
as what we know about their strength. As long as we understand the
cost and duration for an attacker, then we can use them in a safe way.
At this point, we may never replace either because of the inability of
any successor to overcome this knowledge gap.
DES and RSA are among the most significant inventions of the century
and the most important inventions in the history of cryptography.
We are damned lucky to have them.
William Hugh Murray, Executive Consultant, Information System Security
49 Locust Avenue, Suite 104; New Canaan, Connecticut 06840
1-0-ATT-0-700-WMURRAY; WHMurray at DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
|
5813 | From: aa429@freenet.carleton.ca (Terry Ford)
Subject: NASP
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Organization: [via International Space University]
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: sci
Lines: 15
Could someone please send me the basics of the NASP project:
1. The proposal/objectives
2. The current status of the project/obstacles encountered
3. Chance that the project shall ever be completed
or any other interesting information about this project.
Any help will be much appreciated
--
Terry Ford [aa429@freenet.carleton.ca]
>House, Nepean, Ontario, Canada, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, Cluster A21<
DISCALIMER: Any injuries occuring as a direct result from the reading of this
message INCLUDING HEART PALPITATIONS is not my fault in any shape or form.
|
5814 | Subject: Re: Contradictions
From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
NNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu
Lines: 49
In article <C52oys.2CLJ@austin.ibm.com> yoder@austin.ibm.com (Stuart R. Yoder) writes:
>:
>: Then what would it have to do with "in the universe"? You theists
>: cannot understand that inside the universe and outside the universe
>: are two different places. Put God outside the universe and you
>: subtract from it the ability to interact with the inside of the
>: universe, put it inside the universe and you impose the rules of
>: physics on it.
>
>1. God is outside the universe.
>2. Things outside the universe do not have 'the ability to interact
> with the inside of the universe'.
>3. Therefore God cannot interact inside the universe.
>
>(2) has no basis whatsoever. You seem to have positive knowledge
>about this.
(2) is a corrallary of (1).
The negation of (2) would contridict (1).
>
>: Although we do not have a complete model of the physical rules
>: governing the inside of the universe, we expect that there are no
>: contradictory events likely to destroy the fabric of modern physics.
>: On the other hand, your notion of an omnipotent, omniscient and
>: infinitely benevolent god, is not subject to physical laws: you
>: attempt to explain this away by describing it as being outside of
>: them, beyond measurement. To me, beyond measurement means it can
>: have no measurable effect on reality, so it cannot interact: ergo,
>: your god is IRRELEVANT.
>
>1. God is beyond measure.
>2. Beyond measurement means it can have no measurable effect on
> reality.
>3. Therefore God cannot have a measurable effect on reality.
>
>(2) has no basis whatsoever.
(2) Is a corrallary of (1)
The negation of (2) would contradict (1).
--
"Satan and the Angels do not have freewill.
They do what god tells them to do. "
S.N. Mozumder (snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu)
|
5815 | From: walsteyn@fys.ruu.nl (Fred Walsteijn)
Subject: Re: built-in video problems on Mac IIsi !!??!!
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Lines: 24
In <1993Apr19.164611.1018@fys.ruu.nl> walsteyn@fys.ruu.nl (Fred Walsteijn) writes:
>I've seen the following problem om three Mac IIsi machines
>all with 17 Mb RAM installed (70 or 80 ns SIMMs).
>If the contents of a window are being calculated and updated
>a lot of strange horizontal lines are temporarily generated
>on the screen. The lines translate to the top of the screen and
>have a slightly lower brightness than their surroundings (they
>are a few millimeters apart).
>I admit that they are vague, but they can still be distinguished clearly,
>especially if the environment (i.e. the rest of the room) is a bit dark.
>Applications which produce this effect are:
>- the previewer of DirectTeX 1.2 (i.e. DVIReader 1.2)
>- Kaleidagraph 2.1.1/FPU
Another program which produces this effect is:
- SpyGlass Transform 2.1 (while contouring a big 257*257 array).
Thanks for any information about this problem,
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred Walsteijn | Internet: walsteyn@fys.ruu.nl
Institute for Marine and Atmospheric Research | FAX: 31-30-543163
Utrecht University, The Netherlands | Phone: 31-30-533169
|
5816 | From: gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy)
Subject: Re: Why not concentrate on child molesters?
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 13
In article <15407@optilink.COM> walsh@optilink.COM (Mark Walsh) writes:
#There is a big difference between running one's business
#affairs, and actively ripping people off.
And charging homosexuals more becuase people think that AIDS is a "gay
disease" is actively ripping people off.
--
-Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia
USPS Mail: Astronomy Department, Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475 USA
Internet: gsh7w@virginia.edu
UUCP: ...!uunet!virginia!gsh7w
|
5817 | From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Subject: Re: How hard to change springs on F350 truck?
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores-of-the-Pacific, California
Lines: 88
Bottom line: I did it and it worked.
Some 'tips and techniques' are included here:
In article <C4zzpn.Ax7@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>In article <1993Apr3.005245.10615@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
>>Does it take any peculiar tools to remove the rear springs from a Ford
>>F350 truck? This is a 4x4 with leaf springs front and rear.
>>
>>So, with a big socket and an air wrench and a floor jack (and a
>>hydrolic bottle jack ...) can I do this at home?
I found that I needed some smaller sockets to undo the shocks.
And a can of WD40 helped...
The sockets needed were metric (exact fit) but I was able to use
some SAE sockets... 13/16 and 15/16 are rather close to 21 and 24mm...
It CAN be fun having a Canadian Ford ...
>>I'm pictureing this: Undo U bolts. Put a bottle jack on the axle
>>and raise the bed/frame to take stress off of the leaf spring. Undo
>>the end bolts/bushings. Drop the spring. Turn the bottom leaf.
>>Re-connect the spring bolts...
>
>Sounds about right.
Didn't have to undo the end bolts/bushings. Just the 2 U bolts on
each side and the shock absorber. Jacking up the frame some more
(had to put the spare tire on the garage floor and put a wooden
platform on top of that to get the 'floor jack' high enough to
raise the frame ... I't one TALLL truck...) lifted the spring
free of the axel. Taking out the block gave me enough room to
undo the pin holding the spring pack together.
The spring pack was held together with a nut on top and a round head
on the other end.... No wrench head... Vice Grips worked fine...
I soaked the nut with WD40 and it came right off.
Flipped the bottom spring and then...
>>Is this a nightmare waiting to happen, or an easy, though physically
>>demanding, thing to do?
>
>Well, it's easier than doing a decent trigger job on a 1911A1 :-)
>(OK, well, maybe it's not _that_ easy, but it's not terribly
>difficult.)
I donno ... I'm a little more sore today than after working on a
1911A1 ...
A 1.5 foot pipe cheater was a real help. Torque spec for the U bolt
nuts is 150 to 200 ft-lbs (!). A 1911-A1 doesn't have that kind of
torque spec ...
It was a 'challenge' to get the 'pack bolt' back in the spring pack.
Squeeze pack with two hands, hold bolt with third, put nut on
with fourth while picking up wrench and vice grips with fifth
and sixth hands ... I used some string to tie the pack together
while holding the pin in for alignment... then I could let go
to get the {nut, wrench, Vice Grips...}.
Getting the pin back lined up with the lift block was a challenge too...
until I discovered that the axel had 1) Tilted and/or 2) rolled forward.
One the drivers side, a bottle jack under the front of the differential
tilted it back in line enough for the pin head to drop into the right
hole. On the passenger side, I had to wrestle the wheel into rolling
forward about 1/2 inch to get things to line up. Spent more than an
hour working on getting the pin head into the hole in the lift block
with levers and ropes and impliments of distruction before I took a
break and thought about WHY it wasn't lined up anymore (since it HAD
been lined up before, and *I* didn't move it, something ELSE must
have ... hmmm, axle no longer constrained not to move ... hmmm, move
it back... hmmm...).
After that, it was all much easier to 'close up'.
BTW, the ride is now softer, but not quite as soft as I was hoping for.
At least it now sits level..
--
E. Michael Smith ems@apple.COM
'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has
genius, power and magic in it.' - Goethe
I am not responsible nor is anyone else. Everything is disclaimed.
|
5818 | From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: Ban All Firearms !
Organization: UDel: School of Life & Health Sciences
Lines: 19
In article <C5D42C.88K@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca> papresco@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
}
}> Drugs are banned, please tell me when this supply will dry up?
}
}Drugs are easier to manufacture, easier to smuggle, easier to hide.
}
}No comparison.
You, sir, are an ignorant fool who knows nothing about either the drug
business or the gun business.
Tim Starr - Renaissance Now!
Assistant Editor: Freedom Network News, the newsletter of ISIL,
The International Society for Individual Liberty,
1800 Market St., San Francisco, CA 94102
(415) 864-0952; FAX: (415) 864-7506; 71034.2711@compuserve.com
Think Universally, Act Selfishly - starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu
|
5819 | From: brad@ravel.udel.edu (Brad Cain)
Subject: Actix GRAPHICSengine 32plus
Nntp-Posting-Host: ravel.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Lines: 18
I just bought an actix graphics engine 32 plus with 2 megs.
I am not impressed...
I have been having all sorts of problems with the board. Various lock-ups
in windows, problems with the screen not centering, no flexibilty in choosing
synch rates for a monitor, buggy windows drivers, lack of 1024x768x64k driver,
If anyone else has one of these cards, please e-mail me...
Looks like i'm going to try the ati ultra plus...
--
****************************************************************************
brad@bach.udel.edu Brad Cain N3NAF
cain@snow-white.ee.udel.edu University of Delaware Electrical Engineering
cain@freezer.cns.udel.edu "Blah, blah, blah" alt.blah
|
5820 | From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Subject: Re: I thought commercial Advertising was Not allowed
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Lines: 254
In article <C50sKE.3Ft@voder.nsc.com>, matt@galaxy.nsc.com (Matt Freivald x8043) writes:
>
> In Article 164905 in talk.politics.misc,decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
> (dean.kaflowitz)
>
> >In article <C4rt3t.Ewp@voder.nsc.com>, matt@galaxy.nsc.com
> >(Matt Freivald x8043) writes:
> >>
> >>> 1) Is an unborn child a human being at ANY POINT during pregnency?
>
> > >In my opinion, at all points during the pregnancy it is human.
> > >You'll have to define what you mean by "human being" for me to
> > >answer the question as put.
>
> A parallel: Q: "Is a person of color a human being?"
> A: "You'll have to define what you mean by `human being'."
To answer your irrelevant question, yes a person of color is human,
but I still don't know what you mean by human being and you have
merely begged the question without responding. By trying to inject
the notion of race into the discussion, you muddy the waters without
adding any insight whatever. The same parallel question could
be "Is a polydactyl person a human being?" You still have not
answered what you mean by human being. Please do so.
> >> I would suggest that legal precedent defines a human being (i.e., a person
> >> whose rights are protected by the Constitution and the law) as someone with
> >> a functioning brain.
> >Could you cite some of those precedents for me, or the basis of this
> >definition? While the law does allow the removal of extraordinary
> >means of sustaining life in cases of brain death, this in itself
> >does not lead to your conclusion of how the law defines a human
> >being. However, at least you defined human being in a tenuous
> >fashion. That is, a "person whose rights are protected by the
> >Constitution and the law."
>
> >For my answer to your question, I refer you to Roe v Wade and
> >subsequent Supreme Court decisions, which define to what
> >extent a fetus is protected by the Constitution and the law.
> "Certain judges have concurred that slavery is not a violation of
> human rights; therefore, it is not."
You won't answer the question and instead drag in irrelevancies.
If you want a definition of human being that does not depend on
the vagaries of law, but holds solid whatever the law may rule,
provide it for me.
> I would suggest that your blind faith would not likely hold up if the
> shoe were on the other foot. The "brain life/death" paradigm is one that
> I suggest as one consistent with other legal definitions. It clearly
> doesn't matter to you whether an unborn child has any rights or not,
> however, so the point is lost on you.
More irrelevancies. As Larry Margolis pointed out, the law
has made special exceptions in order to include fetuses, but does
not follow your version of human being. And as he pointed out,
brain death is not a means of determining who has the rights
of the living, but rather who has died. There is a significant
difference.
What I am wondering now is, has your argument so failed you that
you feel it necessary to drag out irrelevancies and leave the
thread you started? You got answers to your questions when
you began baiting me, if you recall, after you had made some
ridiculous remarks about Adrienne Regard and, having been corrected,
changed the subject with your remarks about having a discussion
of substance. If you really wanted a discussion of substance,
why then do you disregard logic and substance in order to toss
silly accussations, e.g. "It really doesn't matter to you..."
If it matters to you, then why not define human being and seek
some substance? You're not going to convince a logical person
of the rightness of your position unless you apply some logic
and show some meaning to your words.
> >> >> 2) If she is, then why does the mother have the right to kill
> >> >> her when she is in the womb but not after she has passed
> >> >> through the birth canal?
> >>
> >> >Because a woman has a right to have any object which threatens her
> >> >health and is within the confines of her body removed. The other
> >> >side of the argument would give rights to the fetus that would not
> >> >be granted to an adult human. If, for example, you were occupying
> >> >the body of another, for whatever reason or through whatever means,
> >> >the reason and means being irrelevant, that other would be able to
> >> >remove or have you removed. If that removal required your demise,
> >> >I see no reason in law that such a removal could not be effected.
> >> Rather than examining a hypothetical thought experiment, let us examine
> >> a real, though rare, situation: siamese twins. If one siamese twin has
> >> the other surgically removed, knowing that it will cause death (and
> >> barring some emergency where they will both die anyway), it is
> >> murder.
> >Is it? Have you any support for this assertion? Furthermore, your
> >analogy is completely inapplicable. Siamese twins have an equal
> >claim to any body parts they have in common. Try again.
> What establishes this "equal claim" beyond your assertion? If it
> is merely a matter of "which came first", cannot one kill the other since
> they both have equal claim? What if one has more motor control than
> the other? Does that establish a "superior claim"?
As others point out, one is sacrificed for the other depending on
which has the better chance at survival. Again, your analogy
fails. Not precedence, but possession makes a difference here.
A woman's womb is indisputably her own. Also, I see you ignore
my statement that you would grant rights to a fetus that would
not be granted a born human being. Was that due to its inconvenience?
> >> You see, the right to life IS granted to adult humans in the
> >> same sense as it should be to the foetus AT SOME POINT PRIOR TO BIRTH.
> >Are Siamese twins ever separated in the womb? Or is this
> >right you assert for Siamese twins, which I don't even think is
> >true as stated or valid as an analogy, one that exists after birth?
> >Freivald, your entire argument here is a failure.
> Interesting way of trying to combine two essentially orthogonal concepts.
> The point is that it is murder for one siamese twin to kill the other,
> regardless of their status of physiological dependence or interdependence.
Is it? Please cite a precedent and the basis of the ruling.
> It would be difficult for one siamese twin to kill the other inside the
> womb, and even if it were possible I doubt that a case could be made for
> premeditation or neglegence. Note the use of the phrase "it should be"
> in my post.
You simply assert things without any support. Your analogy is
not accurate and your assertions are unsupported. Try this on
for size. It is not murder for one Siamese twin to kill
the other in the womb. There. We now have equal arguments.
But the idea is illogical. For one Siamese twin to kill the
other in the womb would likely be to kill itself as well. The
systems are dependent on each other for life. I'm still struggling
to see anything analagous here and failing to do so.
> >> Of course, the situation is NOT a perfect comparison; it may well be that
> >> one siamese twin deliberately initiates oppression or coersion against
> >> the other. This is clearly not the case with an unborn child.
> >And this last statement from you is a total non sequitur. The
> >comparison is far worse than you give it credit for.
> Are you going to let this assertion stand on its own also, or do you
> plan on following up with a reasoned argument?
Your argument is from Fantasy Island. Your comparison is a total
failure, as I have demonstrated already, and has no basis in
reality, neither legally nor medically. And for you to assert
that it is not a perfect comparison because of the impossible,
that of coercion or oppression, is ridiculous. As I said,
you give the analogy too little credit for failure. On the one
hand you start this by saying you want to take a real, rather than
a hypothetical, situation, then you fly off into Siamese twins
murdering one another in the womb or coercing or oppressing each
other in the womb when the reality of the situation you describe
in now way matches your version. As I said before, decisions
are made regarding which twin lives and dies in situations where
they cannot both survive. And, furthermore, as I have already said,
there is a difference between an equal claim to organs and a claim
that is unequal. You seem to be asserting that a fetus has a
claim on a woman's womb. When the fetus is born, what happens to
its claim? And by what reason do you assert its claim?
> >> >> 3) If a parent has the right to choose to not take responsibility
> >> >> for their own child, why are there laws and penalties against
> >> >> child abandonment?
> >> >This last question is irrelevant and something of a non sequitur.
> >> >Can you establish some relevance or even some sense for it?
> >> If at some point an unborn child is a human being, the parents clearly
> >> have the same responsibilities toward her as any other parents have toward
> >> their children.
> >Again, what is the relevance? You have established no sense of when
> >that point is, you ignore the significant difference between a fetus
> >and a born child (the dependence of a born child can be transferred
> >to another party, while that of a fetus cannot; a born child does
> >not live within the body of another human being while a fetus does,
> >thereby representing potential and often actual harm to that
> >body, as in the case of one of our talk.abortion participants who
> >suffers from epilepsy and to whom pregnancy represents a significant
> >health risk, or as in the case of a woman I know, who chose to
> >continue her pregnancy, but spent her entire pregnancy confined to
> >a wheelchair and suffering great pain from constriction of some
> >nerve), and your argument is not an argument against abortion
> >generally, but at best an argument against abortion at "some
> >time during the course of pregnancy."
> Again, a quest for common ground. Most of the pro-choice people I
> have spoken to in person (none of them pro-abortion activists) concede
> that the child has a right to life at some point that supersedes all
> of the mother's rights except that of her own life. As is often the
> case in emotionally charged issues, the activists have a very different
> outlook from the mainstream.
You haven't answered the question. The situations are not analagous.
> The dependence of a born child is not transferred instantaneously; it
> takes time and effort. Incidentally, it is the pro-choice side, not
> me, arguing that the government should make it easy for parents to
> abandon their children to the State.
Again you avoid the question. Dependence can be transferred, and
it is not as slow as you seem to think.
> As to the anecdotal evidence of real human tragedy, there is ample
> on both sides. I would hate to be in the position of the mother in
> NYC who has to tell her daughter that she lost her arm in a botched
> abortion attempt.
Yes, and I'd hate to have been the one to tell Dr Gunn's children that
he was murdered by a religious, "pro-life" fanatic. Please do
try to stay relevant.
> >The kindest thing I can say about these responses of yours is
> >that I can see you are trying to say something, but the result
> >is a mish-mash of negligible value.
> Sez you.
Clever comeback. I congratulate you on the readiness of your wit.
>
> In Article 164906 in talk.politics.misc,decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
> (dean.kaflowitz) writes:
>
> [Ground covered in another post deleted]
>
> >> >If at some point an unborn child is a human being, the parents clearly
> >> >have the same responsibilities toward her as any other parents have toward
> >> >their children.
> >>
> >> And no parent can be forced to supply bodily resources toward their children,
> >> even if necessary to save the child's life.
>
> >As was this. To make it painfully clear, you are not
> >obligated to donate a kidney to save your child's life
> >under law.
>
> Again, the confusion between ACTION {deliberately taking away the life
> of a child} and INACTION {refusing to run out in front of a bus to save
> a child}.
What happened to that claim to bodily organs where life is at stake?
Why does this parent now have an indisputable right to his or her
kidney when previously the parent did not, by your standards? What
is different about the two situations? I see I have to spell this
out for you since the meaning was too subtle for you. In the one
case you do not recognize a difference between a fetus and a born
child (you ask why a born child cannot be abandoned but a fetus
can), and in this case you recognize a significant difference
between the fetus and born child where the lives of the two are at
stake. You can't have it both ways. Action and inaction are
irrelevant to the principle, but you are wrong about the inaction
anyway. Ask any of the numerous women who post here and have
borne children how inactive their pregnancy was. To have a
healthy, live child, a woman does more than hang out, eat as
she chooses, plays volleyball like she always did, drinks at
parties with her friends, etc. She behaves very differently, and
the provision of her resources to a fetus may be no more voluntary
than the beating of her heart, but it is far from inactive.
Dean Kaflowitz
|
5821 | From: ch381@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James K. Black)
Subject: NEEDED: algorithms for 2-d & 3-d object recognition
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 23
Reply-To: ch381@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James K. Black)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu
Hi,
I have a friend who is working on 2-d and 3-d object recognition. He is looking
for references describing algorithms on the following subject areas:
Thresholding
Edge Segmentation
Marr-Hildreth
Sobel Operator
Chain Codes
Thinning - Skeletonising
If anybody is willing to post an algorithm that they have implemented which demonstrates
any of the above topics, it would be much appreciated.
Please post all replies to my e-mail address. If requested I will post a summary to the
newsgroup in a couple of weeks.
Thanks in advance for all replies
James
eb192@city.ac.uk
|
5822 | From: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Subject: Re: Impeach Clinton, Reno
Reply-To: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Lines: 22
NNTP-Posting-Host: clesun.central.sun.com
> I HEARTILY agree. Now that the BATF warrant has been
> unsealed, it is CLEAR that Clinton and Reno supported an
> ILLEGAL raid. Did they not KNOW this?
> NO authority for a 'no-knock" raid
> NO authority to use helicopters.
> NO authority to search for a "drug lab"
> And, apparently, not even any authority to search for "automatic
> weapons".
> 51 days of GOVERNMENT LIES.
Sorry, I missed all this! Can you please give an update on
the warrant? I hadn't heard that it was unsealed. There
was no authority for a "no-knock?" This is news. How about
an OK for a wiretap?
Please summarize!
|
5823 | Subject: The 1964 Phillies: deja vu?
From: csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby)
Expires: Mon, 10 May 1993 04:00:00 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Keywords: Phillies
Summary: Phillies
Lines: 9
After reading my local paper today, I found out that the Phillies
started the 1964 season at 10-2. I am not as old as 1964, but I've
heard many talk about the serious choke job the Phillies did that
season. They were ahead of the Cardinals by 15 games that season in
mid-August. They managed to lose a bunch from then on and the
Cardinals took the division. 15!!! games ahead and lost it.... I
hope this season is MUCH different.
|
5824 | From: belville@athena.mit.edu (Sharon Belville)
Subject: Re: God-shaped hole (was Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart...")
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 13
In article <Apr.14.03.07.38.1993.5420@athos.rutgers.edu>, johnsd2@rpi.edu (Dan Johnson) writes:
|> >Those who have an empty spot in the God-shaped hole in their hearts must
|> >do something to ease the pain.
|>
|> I have heard this claim quite a few times. Does anybody here know
|> who first came up with the "God-shaped hole" business?
I've seen this verse used to back up this idea:
"...He has also set eternity in the hearts of men..." (Ecclesiastes 3:11)
--
Sharon Belville
|
5825 | From: jar2e@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Virginia's Gentleman)
Subject: Re: was:Go Hezbollah!!
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 4
We really should try to be as understanding as we can for Brad, because it
appears killing is all he knows.
Jesse
|
5826 | From: JEK@cu.nih.gov
Subject: God, morality, and massacres
Lines: 258
A listmember (D Andrew Killie, I think) wrote, in response to the
suggestion that genocide may sometimes be the will of God:
> Any God who works that way is indescribably evil,
> and unworthy of my worship or faith.
Nobuya "Higgy" Higashiyama replied (as, in substance, did others):
> Where is your source of moral standards by which you judge God's
> behavior?
It is often argued that we have no standing by which to judge God's
actions. Who is the clay to talk back to the potter? But we find a
contrary view in Scripture. When God proposes to destroy the city of
Sodom (Genesis 18), Abraham says:
+ Suppose that there are some good men in the city.
+ Will you destroy the righteous along with the wicked?
+ Far be it from you, Lord, to do such a thing!
+ Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
I am told that the Hebrew is actually a bit stronger than this, and
can perhaps be better rendered (dynamic equivalence) as
+ Shame on you, Lord, if you do such a thing!
There are those who say that the definition of "good" is "whatever
God happens to want." But if that is so, then the statement that God
is good has no meaning. It simply says that God does what He wants.
That being the case, no one can either love or obey God because He
is good. The only motive left for obeying Him is that He is
powerful. Just as it makes sense to obey a dictator, even when he
tells you to round up all Jews and exterminate them, because if you
defy him you might end up in the gas chamber yourself, so it makes
sense to obey God, because He has the power to punish you if you
don't. This ethical theory I take to be in radical contradiction to
Genesis 18 and to Christianity in general.
Any theory that makes our moral judgements worthless makes any
further discussion of morality (or of the goodness of God)
meaningless. However, it does not follow that our moral judgements
are always infallible in particular cases, still less our judgements
in particular cases about the course of action most likely to
achieve a good result.
When I read the Scriptural accounts of the actions of God in
history, those actions often seem to me very different from what I
might expect of a God who loves us and desires what is best for us.
Moreover, leaving the Scriptures aside, and considering the natural
world, I find that Nature is often very different from what I might
expect if it were the work of a benevolent deity. (Origen said:
"Those who believe that the Author of Nature is also the Author of
the Scriptures must expect to find in the Scriptures the same sort
of difficulties that they find in Nature.")
Now, that some such difficulties should exist is not in itself an
argument against the existence, power, wisdom, and goodness of God.
On the contrary, their ABSENCE would be such an argument. Suppose
that I am watching Bobby Fisher play chess, and suppose that every
time he makes a move, I find myself nodding and saying: "Good move!
Just what I was expecting him to do. Same move I would have made if
I were playing." That would be a sign that Fisher is no better a
chess player than myself. Given that he is better, I expect that at
least some of his moves will have me thinking, "Now, what do suppose
induced him to do that?" or even, "Boy, that was a real slip -- he's
just thrown the game away!" Similarly, if God understands the
workings of the universe better than I do, it is to be expected that
sometimes it will look to me as if He has made a mistake.
One difference between Fisher at the chessboard and God at the
controls of the universe is that I can see the end of the chess
game. If Fisher wins, I revise my earlier inference that it was
carelessness that made him lose his queen 23 moves earlier.
However, if he loses, and particularly if I can see that there was a
time when he had an opportunity for a checkmate in two moves and did
not take it, then I know that he is not as good a player as I had
thought.
With God, on the other hand, I shall not in this life see the total
result of some of His actions. Therefore, my grounds for judging
that I have seen a bad move on His part must always be far shakier
than my grounds for making a similar judgement about Fisher.
***** ***** ***** ***** *****
In the book of Genesis, we read that Joseph's ten older brothers,
who (with good reason) found him insufferable, conspired to sell
him into slavery in Egypt. There he eventually became Viceroy, and
when there was a famine in Canaan, he was able to provide for his
family. When his brothers nervously apologized, he told them: "Do
not worry. You meant to do me evil, but God turned it into good."
I once heard a rabbi speak on this text. He said:
The history of the Jews is largely a history of events
that look like catastrophes that threaten the continued
survival of the religion, or the people, or both. But,
amazingly, those events turn out to be the saving of the Jews
and of Judaism.
The sale of Joseph by his brothers looked like the breakup
of the family. But in fact, it ended with a reconciliation of
the quarrel between them. The famine that drove the family out
of Canaan looked like a misfortune for them. But in fact, if
they had stayed in Canaan, they would almost certainly have
intermarried with the Canaanites and been assimilated into
their culture. Their oppression by the Egyptians a few
generations after their arrival in Egypt again looked like a
disaster. But God used it to bring them out of Egypt, and into
the Promised Land.
Here the people built a Temple, and regularly offered
sacrifices. But the Babylonians captured Jerusalem and Judea,
destroyed Temple and city and countryside, and deported most of
the people to Babylon. You might have thought that that would
be the end of the people and the religion. But it was not.
Living in Canaan, the people had been under constant danger of
assimilation. Again and again, they had turned from the
worship of the LORD to the worship of the Canaanite fertility
cults, with their ritual prostitution and ritual human
sacrifice. The Babylonian captivity put a stop to that. Never
again did the Jews show any interest in polytheism or idolatry.
Neither the worship of the Canaanites mor that of the
Babylonians ever again had a foothold among them.
Nor is that all. Judaism had been in danger of becoming
simply a system of sacrifices and Temple observances. The only
prescribed acts of worship consisted of coming to Jerusalem
every so often and offering a sacrifice. During the Captivity,
with the Temple gone, the Jews invented the synagogue, a place
of meeting for reading and study and discussion of the
Scriptures. They came to realize clearly, what they were in
danger of forgetting while they continued to live in Judea,
that God is not simply a local or tribal deity, not just the
controller of the land of Canaan, or the patron of the Jewish
people, but the Creator of the world, and the Ruler and Judge
of all humans everywhere.
Time passed, and the Babylonian Empire was replaced by
that of the Persians, and then that of the Greeks, or rather
the Macedonians. The ruler, Antiochus Epiphanes, was determined
to stamp out Judaism, and to this end he made the reading and
the study of the Torah punishable by death. Again, one might
think that this would be the end of Judaism. But it was not.
The people met for worship, and instead of reading the Torah
portion appointed for the day, they would read some passage
from the prophets that had a similar theme, and then discuss
that. Before this time, the Torah, the so-called Five Books of
Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy)
were the only books read and studied in the synagogue. If it
had not been for Antiochus, the books of the prophets would
probably have been forgotten altogether. His hatred for Judaism
saved them.
[Other examples here omitted for brevity's sake.]
Some of you may remember that Julie Andrews first became
famous as Eliza Doolittle in the stage production of MY FAIR
LADY. When Warner Brothers undertook to make a movie of it,
everyone expected that Julie, who had been so magnificent on
stage, would play the same role in the movie. Instead, the
studio decided to go with an established screen star, and cast
Audrey Hepburn. Julie Andrews was naturally crushed. But she
later realized that if she had played the screen role, she
would have been type-cast for life as an Elize Doolittle type.
It would have been a disaster for her. As it was, Walt Disney
offered her the role of Mary Poppins, and she won an Oscar for
it. At the presentation, she stood there, smiling, and looking
at Walt Disney, she said, "And now, my special thanks to the
man who made all this possible -- JACK WARNER!" It was the most
memorable line of the evening.
In a similar spirit, we Jews might thank the men who in
the providence of God have preserved Judaism, and kept it alive
to this day, beginning with Joseph's brothers, and continuing
with two Pharaohs, with Nebuchadnezzar, with Antiochus
Epiphanes....
After the formal meeting had broken up, one woman came up to him
privately and said, "You were talking about the Holocaust, weren't
you?" He answered, "If that is an example that came to your mind,
then you are right, I was talking about it to you. But I would not
talk about it to everyone, for not everyone can bear it." I assume
that he meant that, without the Holocaust, there would have been no
state of Israel.
Someone hearing the rabbi's lecture might leap to the conclusion
that God is dependent on the wickedness of men to accomplish His
purposes -- or at least that the rabbi thought so. He might then go
on to suppose that the wickedness is in fact God's doing -- that He
stirred up Joseph's brothers to a murderous hate against him, and
that when the Israelites were in Egypt, God hardened Pharaoh's
heart, so that he oppressed the people, and would not let them go.
And this raises questions about how an action can be considered
wicked and at the same time be considered something that God has
brought about.
I suggest another way of looking at it. Consider a sculptor who has
a log of wood from which he proposes to carve a statue. But the log,
instead of having a smooth even grain throughout, has a large knot
that spoils the appearance of the surface. The sculptor considers
the wood for a while, and then carves a statue that features the
knot, that makes that particular interruption in the grain and color
of the wood correspond to some feature of the statue, so that
observers will say: "How fortunate the sculptor was in finding a
piece of wood with a knot like that in just the right place. Its
presence is the crowning touch, the thing that makes the statue a
great work of art." In reality, the knot, far from being what the sculptor was
looking for, was a challenge to his skill. If the wood had not
contained that flaw, he would still have made a great work of art,
but a different one. So, if Joseph's brothers had not sold him, God
would still have brought about His purposes for the Jewish people,
but He would have done so in another manner. If Judas had not
betrayed Jesus, if Caiaphas and his fellow leaders had not rejected
Jesus, but had rather acknowledged Him as the Annointed of God, if
Pilate had followed his conscience rather than his fears and had set
Jesus free, it might appear that there would have been no
Crucifixion, and therefore no Redemption, and therefore no
Salvation. Not so. God did not need Judas' sin to redeem us. If
Judas had done right, then God in Christ would still have reconciled
the world to Himself. We do not know how, just as we do not know
how Michelangelo would have painted the Sistine Chapel if its
interior had instead been shaped like Grand Central Station, and
just as we do not know how Bobby Fisher would have won his fourth
game agianst Spassky if Spassky had refused the exchange of bishops
and had attacked Fisher's knight instead (don't bother to look up
the game in question--I am making up this example, but the point is
none the less valid).
Thus, we may say both (1) that God used, say, the cowardice of
Pilate to accomplish His purposes, and (2) that the said cowardice
was not God's doing, and that Pilate would not have thwarted God's
plans by behaving justly and courageously.
What, then, are we to make of the place where God says to Moses, "I
will harden Pharaoh's heart, so that he will not let the people go"?
Some Christians have taken this to mean that Pharaoh was a puppet
with God pulling the strings, and that his stubbornness and cruelty
were not his own work, but the work of God in him. I suppose rather
that what God was telling Moses was something like this: "If you see
that Pharaoh is not willing to let the people go, do not be
discouraged, or suppose that the situation is out of my control. My
purposes will not be thwarted. If Pharaoh chooses to hear you and
let the people go, well and good. If he does not, I will fit his
resistance into my plans, and fit it so perfectly that future
historians and theologians will suppose that I would have been
thrown for a loss if Pharaoh had obeyed me."
To return to the question that started this all off. Is it possible
that the Serbs, in slaughtering the Moslems of Bosnia, are
instruments of God's will?
First point. What they are doing is wrong, just as what
Joseph's brothers did was wrong, just as what Judas did was wrong.
They intend it for evil. If God somehow brings good out of it, that
does not make them any less subject to just condemnation and
punishment.
Second point. Of course, God will bring good out of it. But not
the same good that He would have brought if the Serbians had
refrained from the sins of robbery and rape and murder. Nor does the
good He purposes excuse us from the duty of doing what is right.
Yours,
James Kiefer
|
5827 | From: ndd@sunbar.mc.duke.edu (Ned Danieley)
Subject: problem with Tek xterminal
Organization: Basic Arrhythmia Laboratory, Duke Univ. Med. Center, Durham, N.C.
Lines: 18
Nntp-Posting-Host: bal1.mc.duke.edu
Originator: ndd@bal1
We have recently purchased a Tektronix xterminal, and I'm having
a problem with it. We have a graphics widget that we wrote to
display waveforms, and it doesn't work on the xterminal. the buttons,
etc, all show up, and it seems to take the 'right' amount of time to
draw, but nothing is visible in the graphics window. I
have no clue as to where to start looking: the program works fine
on all our suns (3s and 4s, color and B&W). could anyone suggest a
line of attack for this problem?
TekXpress XP380 color xterminal running 6.0.0. host is a Sun IPX
running SunOS 4.1.3 and X11R5, PL17.
--
Ned Danieley (ndd@sunbar.mc.duke.edu)
Basic Arrhythmia Laboratory
Box 3140, Duke University Medical Center
Durham, NC 27710 (919) 660-5111 or 660-5100
|
5828 | From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Remember those names come election time.
Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA
Keywords: usa federal, government, international, non-usa government
Lines: 39
In article <C5ztEt.Dwz.1@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>In article <C5u4qI.Mz4@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>>
>> BTW, with Bosnia's large Moslem population, why have nations like
>> Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, and others with either money
>> or strong military forces not spoken out more forcibly or offered
>> to help out Bosnia?
>
>Obviously, you really don't know.
>
>They *have* spoken out (cf Sec'y of State Christopher's recent trip to the ME),
Note the clause "more forcibly", above. My point is that they have
made a few pro-forma, perfunctory remarks, and sent in a few C-130's and
so forth, but it's clearly not something they're losing much sleep over.
They're just going through the motions, while Moslems are being "ethnically
cleansed" out of what used to be Yugoslavia. The US has been speaking
out far more loudly than the Moslem nations in the UN and other world
forums.
>> Besides, there's no case that can be made for US military involvement
>> there that doesn't apply equally well to, say, Liberia, Angola, or
>> (it appears with the Khmer Rouge's new campaign) Cambodia. Non-whites
>> don't count?
>
>Hmm...some might say Kuwaitis are non-white. Ooops, I forgot, Kuwaitis are
>"oil rich", "loaded with petro-dollars", etc so they don't count.
Precisely. Humanitarian concerns were not the primary justification
for US involvement in the Gulf - oil and geopolitics were. If the
the Kuwaitis didn't have oil (and assuming Iraq still saw fit to
invade them) I doubt you would have seen Operation Desert Storm.
---peter
|
5829 | From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Rights Violations in Azerbaijan #013
Summary: Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Lines: 339
Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violations in Azerbaijan #013
Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| I said that on February 27, when those people were streaming down |
| our street, they were shouting, "Long live Turkey!" and "Glory to |
| Turkey!" And during the trial I said to that Ismailov, "What does |
| that mean, 'Glory to Turkey'?" I still don't understand what Turkey |
| has to do with this, we live in the Soviet Union. That Turkey told |
| you to or is going to help you kill Armenians? I still don't |
| understand why "Glory to Turkey!" I asked that question twice and |
| got no answer . . . No one answered me . . . |
| |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
DEPOSITION OF EMMA SETRAKOVNA SARGISIAN
Born 1933
Cook
Sumgait Emergency Hospital
Resident at Building 16/13, Apartment 14
Block 5
Sumgait [Azerbaijan]
To this day I can't understand why my husband, an older man, was killed. What
was he killed for. He hadn't hurt anyone, hadn't said any word he oughtn't
have. Why did they kill him? I want to find out--from here, from there, from
the government--why my husband was killed.
On the 27th, when I returned from work--it was a Saturday--my son was at home.
He doesn't work. I went straight to the kitchen, and he called me, "Mamma, is
there a soccer game?" There were shouts from Lenin Street. That's where we
lived. I say, "I don't know, Igor, I haven't turned on the TV." He looked
again and said, "Mamma, what's going on in the courtyard?!" I look and see so
many people, it's awful, marching, marching, there are hundreds, thousands,
you can't even tell how many there are. They're shouting, "Down with the
Armenians! Kill the Armenians! Tear the Armenians to pieces!" My God, why is
that happening, what for? I had known nothing at that point. We lived together
well, in friendship, and suddenly something like this. It was completely
unexpected. And they were shouting, "Long live Turkey!" And they had flags,
and they were shouting. There was a man walking in front well dressed, he's
around 40 or 45, in a gray raincoat. He is walking and saying something, I
can't make it out through the vent window. He is walking and saying something,
and the children behind him are shouting, "Tear the Armenians to pieces!" and
"Down with the Armenians!" They shout it again, and then shout, "Hurrah!" The
people streamed without end, they were walking in groups, and in the groups I
saw that there were women, too. I say, "My God, there are women there too!"
And my son says, "Those aren't women, Mamma, those are bad women." Well we
didn't look a long time. They were walking and shouting and I was afraid, I
simply couldn't sit still. I went out onto the balcony, and my Azerbaijani
neighbor is on the other balcony, and I say, "Khalida, what's going on, what
happened?" She says, "Emma, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what
happened." Well she was quite frightened too. They had these white sticks,
each second or third one had a white rod. They're waving the rods above their
heads as they walk, and the one who's out front, like a leader, he has a white
stick too. Well maybe it was an armature shaft, but what I saw was white, I
don't know.
My husband got home 10 or 15 minutes later. He comes home and I say, "Oh
dear, I'm frightened, they're going to kill us I bet." And he says, "What are
you afraid of, they're just children." I say, "Everything that happens comes
from children." There had been 15- and 16-year kids from the Technical and
Vocational School. "Don't fear," he said, "it's nothing, nothing all that
bad." He didn't eat, he just lay on the sofa. And just then on television they
broadcast that two Azerbaijanis had been killed in Karabakh, near Askeran.
When I heard that I couldn't settle down at all, I kept walking here and
there and I said, "They're going to kill us, the Azerbaijanis are going to
kill us." And he says, "Don't be afraid." Then we heard--from the central
square, there are women shouting near near the stage, well, they're shouting
different things, and you couldn't hear every well. I say, "You speak
Azerbaijani well, listen to what they're saying." He says "Close the window
and go to bed, there s nothing happening there." He listened a bit and then
closed the window and went to bed, and told us, "Come on, go to sleep, it's
nothing." Sleep, what did he mean sleep? My Son and I stood at the window
until two in the morning watching. Well he's sick, and all of this was
affecting him. I say, "Igor, you go to bed, I'm going to go to bed in a minute
too." He went and I sat at the window until three, and then went to bed.
Things had calmed down slightly.
The 28th, Sunday, was my day off. My husband got up and said, "Come on, Emma,
get up." I say, "Today's my day off, let me rest." He says, "Aren't you going
to make me some tea?" Well I felt startled and got up, and said, "Where are
you going?" He says, "I'm going out, I have to." I say, "Can you really go
outside on a day like today? Don't go out, for God's sake. You never listen to
me, I know, and you're not going to listen to me now, but at least don't take
the car out of the garage, go without the car." And he says, "Come on, close
the door!" And then on the staircase he muttered something, I couldn't make it
out, he probably said "coward" or something.
I closed the door and he left. And I started cleaning . . . picking things up
around the house . . . Everything seemed quiet until one o'clock in the after-
noon, but at the bus station, my neighbor told me, cars were burning. I said,
"Khalida, was it our car?" She says, "No, no, Emma, don't be afraid, they
were government cars and Zhigulis.'' Our car is a GAZ-21 Volga. And I waited,
it was four o'clock, five o'clock . . . and when he wasn't home at seven I
said, "Oh, they've killed Shagen!"
Tires are burning in town, there's black smoke in town, and I'm afraid, I'm
standing on the balcony and I'm all . . . my whole body is shaking. My God,
they've probably killed him! So basically I waited like that until ten
o'clock and he still hadn't come home. And I'm afraid to go out. At ten
o'clock I look out: across from our building is a building with a bookstore,
and from upstairs, from the second floor, everything is being thrown outside.
I'm looking out of one window and Igor is looking out of the other, and I
don't want him to see this, and he, as it turns out, doesn't want me to see
it. We wanted to hide it from one another. I joined him. "Mamma," he says,
"look what they're doing over there!" They were burning everything, and there
were police standing there, 10 or 15 of them, maybe twenty policemen standing
on the side, and the crowd is on the other side, and two or three people are
throwing everything down from the balcony. And one of the ones on the balcony
is shouting, "What are you standing there for, burn it!" When they threw the
television, wow, it was like a bomb! Our neighbor on the third floor came out
on her balcony and shouted, "Why are you doing that, why are you burning those
things, those people saved with such difficulty to buy those things for their
home. Why are you burning them?" And from the courtyard they yell at her, "Go
inside, go inside! Instead why don't you tell us if they are any of them in
your building or not?" They meant Armenians, but they didn't say Armenians,
they said, "of them." She says, "No, no, no, none!" Then she ran downstairs to
our place, and says, "Emma, Emma, you have to leave!" I say, "They've killed
Shagen anyway, what do we have to live for? It won't be living for me without
Shagen. Let them kill us, too!" She insists, saying, "Emma, get out of here,
go to Khalida's, and give me the key. When they come I'll say that it's my
daughter's apartment, that they're off visiting someone." I gave her the key
and went to the neighbor's, but I couldn't endure it. I say, "Igor, you stay
here, I'm going to go downstairs, and see, maybe Papa's . . . Papa's there."
Meanwhile, they were killing the two brothers, Alik and Valery [Albert and
Valery Avanesians; see the accounts of Rima Avanesian and Alvina Baluian], in
the courtyard. There is a crowd near the building, they're shouting, howling,
and I didn't think that they were killing at the time. Alik and Valery lived
in the corner house across from ours. When I went out into the courtyard I saw
an Azerbaijani, our neighbor, a young man about 30 years old. I say, "Madar,
Uncle Shagen's gone, let's go see, maybe he's dead in the garage or near the
garage, let's at least bring the corpse into the house. "He shouts, "Aunt
Emma, where do you think you're going?! Go back into the house, I'll look for
him." I say, "Something will happen to you, too, because of me, no, Madar,
I'm coming too." Well he wouldn't let me go all the same, he says, "You stay
here with us, I'm go look." He went and looked, and came back and said, "Aunt
Emma, there's no one there, the garage is closed. "Madar went off again and
then returned and said, "Aunt Emma, they're already killed Alik, and Valery's
there . . . wheezing."
Madar wanted to go up to him, but those scoundrels said, "Don't go near him,
or we'll put you next to him." He got scared--he's young--and came back and
said, "I'm going to go call, maybe an ambulance will come, at least to take
Alik, maybe he'll live . . . " They grew up together in our courtyard, they
knew each other well, they had always been on good terms. He went to call, but
not a single telephone worked, they had all been shut off. He called, and
called, and called, and called--nothing.
I went upstairs to the neighbor's. Igor says, "Two police cars drove up over
there, their headlights are on, but they're not touching them, they are still
lying where they were, they're still lying there . . . "We watched out the
window until four o'clock, and then went downstairs to our apartment. I didn't
take my clothes off. I lay on the couch so as not to go to bed, and at six
o'clock in the morning I got up and said, "Igor, you stay here at home, don't
go out, don't go anywhere, I'm going to look, I have to find Papa, dead or
alive . . . let me go . . . I've got the keys from work."
At six o'clock I went to the Emergency Hospital. The head doctor and another
doctor opened the door to the morgue. I run up to them and say, "Doctor, is
Shagen there?" He says, "What do you mean? Why should Shagen be here?!" I
wanted to go in, but he wouldn't let me. There were only four people in there,
they said. Well, they must have been awful because they didn't let me in. They
said, "Shagen's not here, he's alive somewhere, he'll come back."
It's already seven o'clock in the morning. I look and there is a panel truck
with three policemen. Some of our people from the hospital were there with
them. I say, "Sara Baji ["Sister" Sara, term of endearment], go look, they've
probably brought Shagen." I said it, shouted it, and she went and came back
and says, "No, Emma, he has tan shoes on, it's a younger person." Now Shagen
just happened to have tan shoes, light tan, they were already old. When they
said it like that I guessed immediately. I went and said, "Doctor, they've
brought Shagen in dead." He says, "Why are you carrying on like that, dead,
dead . . . he's alive." But then he went all the same, and when he came back
the look on his face was . . . I could tell immediately that he was dead. They
knew one another well, Shagen had worked for him a long time. I say, "Doctor,
is it Shagen?" He says, "No, Emma, it's not he, it's somebody else entirely."
I say, "Doctor, why are you deceiving me, I'll find out all the same anyway,
if not today, then tomorrow." And he said . . . I screamed, right there in the
office. He says, "Emma, go, go calm down a little." Another one of our
colleagues said that the doctor had said it was Shagen, but . . . in hideous
condition. They tried to calm me down, saying it wasn't Shagen. A few minutes
later another colleague comes in and says, "Oh, poor Emma!" When she said it
like that there was no hope left.
That day was awful. They were endlessly bringing in dead and injured
people.
At night someone took me home. I said, "Igor, Papa's been killed."
On the morning of the 1st I left Igor at home again and went to the hospital:
I had to bury him somehow, do something. I look and see that the hospital is
surrounded by soldiers. They are wearing dark clothes. "Hey, citizen, where
are you going?" I say, "I work here," and from inside someone shouts, "Yes,
yes, that's our cook, let her in." I went right to the head doctor's office
and there is a person from the City Health Department there, he used to
work with us at the hospital. He says, "Emma, Shagen's been taken to Baku.
In the night they took the wounded and the dead, all of them, to Baku." I
say, "Doctor, how will I bury him?" He says, "We're taking care of all that,
don't you worry, we'll do everything, we'll tell you about it. Where did you
spend the night?" I say, "I was at home." He says, "What do you mean you
were at home?! You were at home alone?" I say, "No, Igor was there too." He
says, "You can't stay home, we're getting an ambulance right now, wait just
one second, the head doctor is coming, we're arranging an ambulance right
now, you put on a lab coat and take one for Igor, you go and bring Igor here
like a patient, and you'll stay here and we'll se~ later what to do next ..."
His last name is Kagramanov. The head doctor's name is Izyat Jamalogli
Sadukhov.
The "ambulance" arrived and I went home and got Igor. They admitted him as a
patient, they gave us a private room, an isolation room. We stayed in the
hospital until the 4th.
Some police car came and they said, "Emma, let's go." And the women, our
colleagues, then they saw the police car, became anxious and said, "Where are
you taking her?" I say, "They're going to kill me, too . . . " And the
investigator says, "Why are you saying that, we're going to make a positive
identification." We went to Baku and they took me into the morgue . . . I
still can't remember what hospital it was . . . The investigator says, "Let's
go, we need to be certain, maybe it's not Shagen." And when I saw the caskets,
lying on top of one another, I went out of my mind. I say, "I can't look, no."
The investigator says, "Are there any identifying marks?" I say, "Let me see
the clothes, or the shoes, or even a sock, I'll recognize them." He says,
"Isn't they're anything on his body?" I say he has seven gold teeth and his
finger, he only has half of one of his fingers. Shagen was a carpenter, he had
been injured at work . . .
They brought one of the sleeves of the shirt and sweater he was wearing, they
brought them and they were all burned . . . When I saw them I shouted, "Oh,
they burned him!" I shouted, I don't know, I fell down . . . or maybe I sat
down, I don't remember. And that investigator says, "Well fine, fine, since
we've identified that these are his clothes, and since his teeth . . . since
he has seven gold teeth . . . "
On the 4th they told me: "Emma, it's time to bury Shagen now." I cried, "How,
how can I bury Shagen when I have only one son and he's sick? I should inform
his relatives, he has three sisters, I can't do it by myself." They say, "OK,
you know the situation. How will they get here from Karabagh? How will they
get here from Yerevan? There's no transportation, it s impossible."
He was killed on February 28, and I buried him on March 7. We buried him in
Sumgait. They asked me, "Where do you want to bury him?" I said, "I want to
bury him in Karabagh, where we were born, let me bury him in Karabagh," I'm
shouting, and the head of the burial office, I guess, says, "Do you know what
it means, take him to Karabagh?! It means arson!" I say, "What do you mean,
arson? Don't they know what's going on in Karabagh? The whole world knows that
they killed them, and I want to take him to Karabagh, I don't have anyone
anymore." I begged, I pleaded, I grieved, I even got down on my knees. He
says, "Let's bury him here now, and in three months, in six months, a year,
if it calms down, I'll help you move him to Karabagh . . . "
Our trial was the first in Sumgait. It was concluded on May 16. At the
investigation the murderer, Tale Ismailov, told how it all happened, but then
at the trial he . . . tried to wriggle . . . he tried to soften his crime.
Then they brought a videotape recorder, I guess, and played it, and said,
"Ismailov, look, is that you?" He says, "Yes." "Well look, here you're
describing everything as it was on the scene of the crime, right?" He says,
"Yes." "And now you're telling it differently?" He says, "Well maybe I
forgot!" Like that.
The witnesses and that criminal creep himself said that when the car was going
along Mir Street, there was a crowd of about 80 people . . . Shagen had a
Volga GAZ-21. The 80 people surrounded his car, and all 80 of them were
involved. One of them was this Ismailov guy, this Tale. They--it's unclear
who--started pulling Shagen out of the car. Well, one says from the left side
of the car, another says from the right side. They pulled off his sports
jacket. He had a jacket on. Well they ask him, "What's your nationality?" He
says, "Armenian." Well they say from the crowd they shouted, "If he's an
Armenian, kill him, kill him!" They started beating him, they broke seven of
his ribs, and his heart . . . I don't know, they did something there, too
. . . it's too awful to tell about. Anyway, they say this Tale guy . . . he
had an armature shaft. He says, "I picked it up, it was lying near a bush,
that's where I got it." He said he picked it up, but the witnesses say that he
had already had it. He said, "I hit him twice," he said, " . . . once or twice
on the head with that rod." And he said that when he started to beat him
Shagen was sitting on the ground, and when he hit him he fell over. He said,
"I left, right nearby they were burning things or something in an apartment,
killing someone," he says, "and I came back to look, is that Shagen alive or
not?" I said, "You wanted to finish him, right, and if he was still alive, you
came back to hit him again?" He went back and looked and he was already dead.
"After that," that bastard Tale said, "after that I went home."
I said, "You . . . you . . . little snake," I said, "Are you a thief and a
murderer?" Shagen had had money in his jacket, and a watch on his wrist. They
were taken. He says he didn't take them
When they overturned and burned the car, that Tale was no longer there, it was
other people who did that. Who it was, who turned over the car and who burned
it, that hasn't been clarified as yet. I told the investigator, "How can you
have the trial when you don't know who burned the car?" He said something, but
I didn't get what he was saying. But I said, "You still haven't straightened
everything out, I think that's unjust."
When they burned the car he was lying next to it, and the fire spread to him.
In the death certificate it says that he had third-degree burns over 80
percent of his body . . .
And I ask again, why was he killed? My husband was a carpenter; he was a good
craftsman, he knew how to do everything, he even fixed his own car, with his
own hands. We have three children. Three sons. Only Igor was with me at the
time. The older one was in Pyatigorsk, and the younger one is serving in the
Army. And now they're fatherless...
I couldn't sit all the way through it. When the Procurator read up to 15
years' deprivation of freedom, I just . . . I went out of my mind, I didn't
know what to do with myself, I said, "How can that be? You," I said, "you are
saying that it was intentional murder and the sentence is 15 years'
deprivation of freedom?" I screamed, I had my mind! I said, "Let me at that
creep, with my bare hands I'll . . . " A relative restrained me, and there
were all those military people there . . . I lest. I said," This isn't a
Soviet trial, this is unjust!" That's what I shouted, l said it and left . . .
I said that on February 27, when those people were streaming down our street,
they were shouting, "Long live Turkey!" and "Glory to Turkey!" And during the
trial I said to that Ismailov, "What does that mean, 'Glory to Turkey'?" I
still don't understand what Turkey has to do with this, we live in the Soviet
Union. That Turkey told you to or is going to help you kill Armenians? I still
don't understand why "Glory to Turkey!" I asked that question twice and got no
answer . . . No one answered me . . .
May 19, 1988
Yerevan
- - - reference - - -
[1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan,
Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by
Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 178-184
--
David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org | "How do we explain Turkish troops on
S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies | the Armenian border, when we can't
P.O. Box 382761 | even explain 1915?"
Cambridge, MA 02238 | Turkish MP, March 1992
|
5830 | From: jcox@x102a.harris-atd.com (Jamie Cox)
Subject: Re: serial port problem
Nntp-Posting-Host: x102a.ess.harris.com
Reply-To: jcox@x102a.ess.harris.com (Jamie Cox)
Organization: Harris Govt. Aerospace Systems Division
Keywords: serial port, powerbook
Lines: 41
In article <1qcq4gINN2q7@calvin.usc.edu> wls@calvin.usc.edu writes:
>
>
>A friend asked me to build a cable to connect an HP fetal heart monitor
>to a Maciontosh (SE/30). No problem, sez I.
>
>...
>I wanted to demo it on my PB 170, it won't work!
>
>The PB has been used running ZTerm and kermit using both internal and external
>modems; so I don't think it's the powerbook per se.
>
>When I send a "^51" to the HP it responds with "^55^AA" -- a test of the serial
>ports. It works on the SE/30; but not on the PB170.
>
>I thought that the SE/30 is connected to earth ground and so is the HP. So I
>connected from the chassis of the HP to the PW audio (ground) connector; still
>NG.
>
>Any thoughts?
Battery powered devices like the PowerBook are sometimes more sensitive to
serial port weirdness. I had trouble with connecting my Mac Plus to an HP 95LX
handheld. Everything else worked okay on that port, but not the HP. (it runs
on two penlite batteries). It turned out that the plus (by accident or by
design flaw?) was putting a 4 volt bias on the serial port that was doing
weird things to the HP (which has only 3v dc!). The HP worked fine when
connected to the printer port.
Does your PB screen get dim or anything when connected to the device? Have you
tried using the printer port?
Good luck.
--jamie
Jamie Cox jcox@ess.harris.com | Phone: 1 407 633 5757 (work)
Harris Space Systems Corp. | 1 407 723 7935 (home)
MS ROCK-2, 295 Barnes Blvd. |The Macintosh Meeting and Drinking Society
Rockledge, Florida USA | "Speaking only for myself."
|
5831 | From: jerryb@eskimo.com (Jerry Kaufman)
Subject: Re: Questions from a newbie
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
Lines: 27
The concept of God as a teacher is indeed interesting. Does He grade on
a curve, does He cheat? That is interesting. Not to mention thought
provoking. My own concept is that He is a Father and we are His
children. In that He loves us, with a love that we can never understand
until we are with Him. The Bible says that He looks on the heart as the
final measure. From that perspective, in a grading context, the heart is
the final test.
Specifically, most Christians would agree that there is only one Heaven
and one Hell. From that perspective, it is Heaven or Hell. You either go
to one or the other. The "grading" on a pass/fail basis is done by God
the Father with intervention by Jesus the Son. Not by others. For only
God sees the heart. The Bible says of the heart, "...who can know it." I
would say there has always been, and always be, an unchanging method.
That is what makes a relationship with Christ so secure. In an uncertain
and ever changing landscape He is always the same. Yesterday, today and
tomorrow. Concerning whether or not our childhoods are considerd as part
of the test, my own conviction is no. Were that the case I certainly
wouldn't be going to Heaven. The Bible speaks very plainly about the
love and care Jesus had for and about children. The reality is that we
are all children. Some of us just have bigger bodies and grey hair. But
the Father, our Father is always there. Like most Fathers He wants only
the best for His own. There maybe decipline, but there is more love.
It's sometimes looks like Christianity is a test, to see who makes it
and who doesn't. Those who do pass=Heaven, and those who don't go to the
other place. But it is really much more than that...
There are few experts. Most of us are just travelers looking for the
light and the way Home. Praying that we can bring others with us.
|
5832 | From: pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Finnally, the Phils have support
Lines: 75
Nntp-Posting-Host: ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Organization: University of Louisville
In article <C4yxMJ.BLE@news.udel.edu>, philly@bach.udel.edu (Robert C Hite) writes:
> In article <1993Apr3.182452.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>
>>>Everytime I have written on the net about the possibility of a
>>>successfuls season by the Philadelphia Phillies, I have gotten ripped
>>>from everybody from Pittsburgh to Calcutta. But if all the
>>>ignoramouses, care to look at this week's Baseball Weekly, they will see
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>that I'm not the only one who considers then as division winners - the
>>>rest of the most respected baseball writers in the country do as well.
>>
>
>>And what was the reasoning of this genius writer? That, even though their
>>pitching is at best "sound", they will win on the strength of their offense.
>>Lesse:
>> '93 offense = '92 offense + (Thompson & Incaviglia)
>>
>> '92 offense = 72 wins
>> '93 division winners = (at least) 88 wins
>>
>>So,
>> 88 wins = 72 wins + (Thompson & Incaviglia)
>>
>>Therefore,
>> 16 wins = Thompson & Incaviglia
>>
>>What did you learn in school today?
>>
>>If you take a math course and your teacher turns out to be Rob Rains, run,
>>don't walk, to drop/add.
>> P. Tierney
>
> You obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about. No,
> Thompson and Incaviglia don't equal 16 wins, but I'll take the two
> of them over Stan Javier and Ruben Amaro (.249 1HR, 334AB &
> .219 7HR 374 AB) I'd say this improvement should equate to 6or 7
> wins at least.
>
> Then, I'll take Lenny Dykstra who played 85 games last year and
> project his numbers (.301, 104 hits, 18 2B's, 6 HR, 39RBI, 30 SB)
> over 150 games. Thus(.301, 188 hits, 32 2B's, 11HR, 70RBI, 54 SB)
> Okay, now we'll put these numbers in the leadoff hole and thus
> I have to bump Kruk, Hollins, Daulton RBI numbers up just a tad...
> now lesse... they knocked in 70, 93, and 109 respectively. Don't
> you think it's fair to add about 5 or 6 RBI to each? They managed
> to knock in a pretty nice amount of runs with a .219 leadoff hitter.
> Okay bozo, do you think it's fair to add maybe 7 or 8 more wins
> now? Oh, and how can I forget Wes Chamberlain, 275 AB's 9 HR,
> 41 RBI even WITH a month and 1/2 in AAA and a horrible first half.
> Well project that over a full season to get 18 HR and 80 RBI or so.
> Is that worth a win or two?
>
> Finally, take the *worse* pitching staff in the NL last year, add
> the worse injury decimation of 1992. Okay, now we add Danny
> jackson, some health, and a full season for Schilling... is that
> worth at least 3 wins?
>
> Okay we've been conservative and added about 18 wins so far. Now
> we're adding about 4 more wins thanks to the expansion teams...
> Okay, thats 22 wins. Lesse dipshit math genuious, 72 + 22 = 94
> Hmmm... I think thats good enough to win the worse division in
> baseball?
>
> Next time, before you say something foolish, get a clue first!
>
>
Actually, I was simply relaying the reasoning of this so-called genius BW
writer. I agree. The reasoning was foolish.
Next time, before you say something foolish, be aware what you are responding
to.
BTW, 94 wins. Very funny.
P. Tierney
|
5833 | From: smortaz@handel.sun.com (shahrokh mortazavi)
Subject: Re: News briefs from KH # 1025
Organization: Central
Lines: 18
In article <1qg1gdINNge7@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu> karbasi@cis.ohio-state.edu writes:
>
> 1- "nehzat-e aazaadee"'s member have many times been arrested
> and tortured and as we speak some of them are still in prison.
>
> 2- The above item confirms the long standing suspicion that
> the only reason this regime has not destroyed "nehzat-e
> aazaadee" completely is just to show off and brag about the
> "freedom of expression in Iran" in its propaganda paper.
>
> Get serious! If this regime had its way, there would be
> absolutely no freedom of expression anywhere, not even in SCI.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
there really isnt, as seen by the heavy usage of anonymous posting.
if iri sympathizers didnt roam around in sci, anon-poster would
get used only occasionally (as in the good old days).
|
5834 | From: tran@f18sunn.nwc.navy.mil (Tri Tran)
Subject: Info on Ultrastor HD controller wanted
Organization: NAWC
Lines: 9
Hi netters,
Does anyone know have any info on the Ultrastor line of controller?
I'm especially interested in the 14F and 34F SCSI controllers.
Please email any info ASAP. I'm building a system and that's one
of the few conponents that is missing. Thanks.
Tri
|
5835 | From: dspalme@mke.ab.com (Diane Palme x2617)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible
Organization: Allen-Bradley Co.
Lines: 24
NNTP-Posting-Host: tinman.mke.ab.com
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
: nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) writes:
:
: >
: > HELP!!!
: > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
:
jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry) writes:
:
: FYI, just last week the PBS show Motor Week gave the results of what they
: thought were the best cars for '93. In the convertible category, the
: Honda Civic del Sol achieved this honor.
:
: The one down-side I see with the car is its interior, it looks
: inexpensive and dull.
:
I own a del Sol and I must vouch for the interior. I really looks snazzy when
the top is off. I looks a lot better in person than on the television. (I saw
that Motorweek as well. Needless to say I was smiling a bit by the time it
was over ...) :*)
Watch out for that darned "convertible tan" tho...
Diane
dspalme@mke.ab.comm
|
5836 | From: mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon)
Subject: hating the sin but not the sinner?
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Distribution: usa
Lines: 26
What are the consequences of the homophobic ranting of the
self-righteous? Well, I just noted this on another group,
and thought I'd pass it along. The context is talk.origins,
and a report of yet another "debate" that was nothing but an
attempt at mindless bullying and factless assertion by a
standard-issue Creationist. The writer reflects that the
behavior reported reminds him of some Christian groups he has
known. I believe that the writer is a (non-homosexual) Christian:
+ There is a very effective technique used to promote
+ unit cohesion among the Soldiers of the Lord. It is
+ called "witnessing"... I've seen this process used well
+ and poorly; the near devil worship I mention was a group
+ ... that was using the witnessing to get people lathered
+ up to go kill homosexuals or at least terrorize them off
+ campus as it was clearly God's will that they do so.
I have deleted the specifics of the location, as I do not
believe it characteristic of the place (a state in which I
spent my formative first 10 years), though it *does* have,
unfortunately, a subpopulation that this remark fits to a tee.
--
Michael L. Siemon I say "You are gods, sons of the
mls@panix.com Most High, all of you; nevertheless
- or - you shall die like men, and fall
mls@ulysses.att..com like any prince." Psalm 82:6-7
|
5837 | From: francis@ircam.fr (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Re: Can't wear contacts after RK/PRK?
Keywords: radial,keratotomy,contact,lenses
Organization: IRCAM, Paris (France)
Lines: 45
In article <1993Apr16.063425.163999@zeus.calpoly.edu> dfield@flute.calpoly.edu (InfoSpunj (Dan Field)) writes:
>I love the FAQ.
>
>The comment about contact lenses not being an option for any remaining
>correction after RK and possibly after PRK is interresting. Why is
>this? Does anyone know for sure whether this applies to PRK as well?
I've had PRK.
I would suggest asking a doctor about contacts. Mine said yes to
contacts. I think the scars from RK would preclude contacts.
>Also, why is it possible to get a correction in PRK with involvement of
>only about 5% of the corneal depth, while RK is done to a depth of up to
>95%? Why such a difference? I thought the proceedures were simmilar
>with the exception of a laser being the cutting tool in PRK. I must not
>be understanding all of the differences.
No. RK makes radial cuts around the circumference of the cornea, up to
8 I think, and these change the curvature of the cornea through stress
chages. PRK vaporizes (burns) away a thin layer from the front of the
cornea making the optical axis of the eye shorter. The laser doesn't
cut in PRK, it vaporizes. In RK, the eye is cut into.
>In the FAQ, the vision was considered less clear after the surgery than
>with glasses alone. If this is completly attributable to the
>intentional slight undercorrection, then it can be compensated for when
>necessary with glasses (or contacts, if they CAN be worn afterall!). It
>is important to know if that is not the case, however, and some other
>consequence of the surgery would often interfere with clear vision. The
>first thing that came to my mind was a fogging of the lense, which
>glasses couldn't help.
>
>would not help.
I find my vision is more clear for some things, and less clear for
others, only at night. I notice a definite haloing at night in the
darkness when I look at automobile headlamps, though this is not
something I spend inordinate amounts of time doing. For ordinary
things, my vision, in particular having a fully-operating peripheral
vision, is clearer than with glasses, or contacts.
--
| Le Jojo: Fresh 'n' Clean, speaking out to the way you want to live
| today; American - All American; doing, a bit so, and even more so.
|
5838 | From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Subject: Re: Waco, they did it. ( MASADA )
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Lines: 20
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com
In article <C5rtLJ.Aqz@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf) writes:
> I can't see these people standing calmly around while they burned to
> death. Sorry. I just can't see them choosing a death as horrible as
> this. The story doesn't wash. It'll take some convincing to get me
> to believe it. The FBI said today that Koresh had earlier intended
> to strap himself with explosives, come over to the FBI agents and
> detonate, but lost his nerve. He lost his nerve for a quick, clean
> death but not to roasted alive? Sorry, don't believe it, even if he
> was nutty as a fruitcake.
On Ted Koppel last night, the ubiquitous Australian woman claimed that
Koresh trained the women (years ago) how to commit suicide by swallowing
cyanide or by putting a gun in their mouth. With cyanide on hand, why
choose to roast yourself? There are too many unanswered questions here.
--
cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...
|
5839 | From: miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114)
Subject: Re: 68000
Organization: Western Geo. - Div of Western Atlas Intn'l Inc., Houston, TX
Lines: 24
Nntp-Posting-Host: hmsp04.wg3.waii.com
In article <1993Apr15.060043.15664@serval.net.wsu.edu> rwilley@eecs.wsu.edu (Ronald Willey - CS) writes:
>
> The Supra accelerator that is mentioned in one of the pervious
>articles, is not 68000 or 68020 based. It runs on a 68030 at 28Mhz and
>the design they are using is very simple( if you were referring to the
>A500 exteranal model).
Hmm - I don't think you and I are thinking of the same thing. I was the
original poster, BTW. The accelerator that I'm talking about almost
certainly uses a 68HC000, according to the footnotes in the Supra ad. It
only costs $199 list, so I really doubt if it has a 28 MHz 68030 inside.
It's called the Supra 28, or Supra Turbo 28.
There's an external A500 model, and an internal A2000 model.
BTW, does anyone know if a 28Mhz 68HC010 exists?
--
Griff Miller > Griff.Miller@waii.com < use this for email.
*** My opinions are mine, not Western's. ***
"Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good.
Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does
evil has not seen God." - 3 John 9
|
5840 | From: libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson)
Subject: Re: Formal Rebuttal to the Presumption of Jurisdiction
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
Lines: 17
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes:
: In article <1993Apr5.045612.14229@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
:
: > [...] You're not breathing clean air provided by government
: > regulations, [...]
:
: If this doesn't beat all I ever heard! The above certainly says a
: mouthful about the mindset of Ted Frank, and also of statists
: everywhere.
: --
Yes, there's certainly no need to argue with him, or address the
substance of what he says- he's a statist, after all. Probably
politically correct, too...
Bill
|
5841 | From: myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers)
Subject: Re: Scope questions
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Lines: 31
> If my life depended on it, I'd say that it's a scope that
> uses long-persistance phosphor to keep the successive
> taces on the screen for some unit of time - "store" them.
> Do I get to live?
We'll let you live, but just this once....
There's more to a real "storage" scope than just a long-persistence
phosphor. Actually, the phosphor ISN'T usually anything special at all;
what makes a storage tube work is a screen placed just *behind* the phosphor,
which becomes charged as the electron beam intially "writes" the trace.
With the trace now written to the screen, a separate low-level "flood"
electron gun keeps the image lit by exciting those areas of phosphor
which are next to the "written" areas on the storage screen. There are
some problems with this - the resolution is limited compared to a non-storage
tube, and the stored trace tends to "bloom" with time.
Of course, this is pretty much obsolete technology, done in by the current
digital scopes which use raster-scan displays and keep everything in a
frame-buffer memory anyways.
> / Filip "I'll buy a vowel" Gieszczykiewicz. | Best e-mail "fmgst+@pitt.edu" \
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ah, yes - from the same people who brought you that amazing new reading
program that's sweeping Eastern Europe: "Hooked on Consonants!" :-)
Bob Myers KC0EW Hewlett-Packard Co. |Opinions expressed here are not
Systems Technology Div. |those of my employer or any other
myers@fc.hp.com Fort Collins, Colorado |sentient life-form on this planet.
|
5842 | From: jim.wray@yob.sccsi.com (Jim Wray)
Subject: sign of the times...
Organization: Ye Olde Bailey BBS - Houston, TX - 713-520-1569
Lines: 31
Reply-To: jim.wray@yob.sccsi.com (Jim Wray)
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu
Article in this morning's Houston Post...."negotiators send food to
rebellious inmates as humanitarian gesture"...speaking about the Ohio prison
riot where they have killed at least one of the hostage guards.
I know it's not the same "group" but the mindset appears to be common to
"those what rule" here lately....they won't give diddley to the BD's in Waco
but they treat criminals as deserving of "humanitarian gestures".
This is but another indicator that the criminal caste seems to enjoy more
priviliges in today's society than their victims or other law abiding
citizens. What is it that makes the criminal so precious to the "leaders of
the system"?
Could it be that the criminal is one of the "tools" the "authorities" are
using to "excuse" some of the rights negation they are trying to foist upon
the law abiding citizen in the name of crime control....don't solve the crime
problem because then the citizen couldn't be held hostage to "our help".
If the crime problem were solved in favor of the citizen/victim at the
expense of the criminal none of the crap such as RICO and gun banning could
be used as excuses to work the agenda of those who would control our every
move and thought.
---
. OLX 2.2 . If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand.
----
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ye Olde Bailey BBS 713-520-1569 (V.32bis) 713-520-9566 (V.32bis) |
| Houston,Texas yob.sccsi.com Home of alt.cosuard |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|
5843 | From: lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Lipman)
Subject: CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS: Navy SciViz/VR Seminar
Expires: 30 Apr 93 04:00:00 GMT
Reply-To: lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Lipman)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD
Lines: 66
CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS
NAVY SCIENTIFIC VISUALIZATION AND VIRTUAL REALITY SEMINAR
Tuesday, June 22, 1993
Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center
(formerly the David Taylor Research Center)
Bethesda, Maryland
SPONSOR: NESS (Navy Engineering Software System) is sponsoring a
one-day Navy Scientific Visualization and Virtual Reality Seminar.
The purpose of the seminar is to present and exchange information for
Navy-related scientific visualization and virtual reality programs,
research, developments, and applications.
PRESENTATIONS: Presentations are solicited on all aspects of
Navy-related scientific visualization and virtual reality. All
current work, works-in-progress, and proposed work by Navy
organizations will be considered. Four types of presentations are
available.
1. Regular presentation: 20-30 minutes in length
2. Short presentation: 10 minutes in length
3. Video presentation: a stand-alone videotape (author need not
attend the seminar)
4. Scientific visualization or virtual reality demonstration (BYOH)
Accepted presentations will not be published in any proceedings,
however, viewgraphs and other materials will be reproduced for
seminar attendees.
ABSTRACTS: Authors should submit a one page abstract and/or videotape to:
Robert Lipman
Naval Surface Warfare Center, Carderock Division
Code 2042
Bethesda, Maryland 20084-5000
VOICE (301) 227-3618; FAX (301) 227-5753
E-MAIL lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Authors should include the type of presentation, their affiliations,
addresses, telephone and FAX numbers, and addresses. Multi-author
papers should designate one point of contact.
DEADLINES: The abstact submission deadline is April 30, 1993.
Notification of acceptance will be sent by May 14, 1993.
Materials for reproduction must be received by June 1, 1993.
For further information, contact Robert Lipman at the above address.
PLEASE DISTRIBUTE AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE, THANKS.
Robert Lipman | Internet: lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil
David Taylor Model Basin - CDNSWC | or: lip@ocean.dt.navy.mil
Computational Signatures and | Voicenet: (301) 227-3618
Structures Group, Code 2042 | Factsnet: (301) 227-5753
Bethesda, Maryland 20084-5000 | Phishnet: stockings@long.legs
The sixth sick shiek's sixth sheep's sick.
|
5844 | From: kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M Kadie)
Subject: [EFF] Initial EFF Analysis of Clinton Privacy and Security Proposal
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Lines: 107
[An article from comp.org.eff.news, EFFector Online 5.06 - Carl]
April 16, 1993
INITIAL EFF ANALYSIS OF CLINTON PRIVACY AND SECURITY
PROPOSAL
The Clinton Administration today made a major announcement
on cryptography policy which will effect the privacy and security of
millions of Americans. The first part of the plan is to begin a
comprehensive inquiry into major communications privacy issues
such as export controls which have effectively denied most people
easy access to robust encryption as well as law enforcement issues
posed by new technology.
However, EFF is very concerned that the Administration has
already reached a conclusion on one critical part of the inquiry, before
any public comment or discussion has been allowed. Apparently, the
Administration is going to use its leverage to get all telephone
equipment vendors to adopt a voice encryption standard developed
by the National Security Agency. The so-called "Clipper Chip" is an
80-bit, split key escrowed encryption scheme which will be built into
chips manufactured by a military contractor. Two separate escrow
agents would store users' keys, and be required to turn them over
law enforcement upon presentation of a valid warrant. The
encryption scheme used is to be classified, but they chips will be
available to any manufacturer for incorporation into their
communications products.
This proposal raises a number of serious concerns .
First, the Administration appears to be adopting a solution
before conducting an inquiry. The NSA-developed Clipper chip may
not be the most secure product. Other vendors or developers may
have better schemes. Furthermore, we should not rely on the
government as the sole source for Clipper or any other chips. Rather,
independent chip manufacturers should be able to produce chipsets
based on open standards.
Second, an algorithm can not be trusted unless it can be tested.
Yet the Administration proposes to keep the chip algorithm
classified. EFF believes that any standard adopted ought to be public
and open. The public will only have confidence in the security of a
standard that is open to independent, expert scrutiny.
Third, while the use of the split-key, dual-escrowed
system may prove to be a reasonable balance between privacy and
law enforcement needs, the details of this scheme must be explored
publicly before it is adopted. What will give people confidence in the
safety of their keys? Does disclosure of keys to a third party waive
individual's fifth amendment rights in subsequent criminal
inquiries?
In sum, the Administration has shown great sensitivity to the
importance of these issues by planning a comprehensive inquiry into
digital privacy and security. However, the "Clipper chip" solution
ought to be considered as part of the inquiry, not be adopted before
the discussion even begins.
DETAILS OF THE PROPOSAL:
ESCROW
The 80-bit key will be divided between two escrow agents, each of
whom hold 40 bits of each key. Upon presentation of a valid
warrant, the two escrow agents would have to turn the key parts
over to law enforcement agents. Most likely the Attorney General
will be asked to identify appropriate escrow agents. Some in the
Administration have suggested one non-law enforcement federal
agency, perhaps the Federal Reserve, and one non-governmental
organization. But, there is no agreement on the identity of the agents
yet.
Key registration would be done by the manufacturer of the
communications device. A key is tied to the device, not to the person
using it.
CLASSIFIED ALGORITHM AND THE POSSIBILITY OF BACK DOORS
The Administration claims that there are no back door means by
which the government or others could break the code without
securing keys from the escrow agents and that the President will
be told there are no back doors to this classified algorithm. In order
to prove this, Administration sources are interested in arranging for
an all-star crypto cracker team to come in, under a security
arrangement, and examine the algorithm for trap doors. The results
of the investigation would then be made public.
GOVERNMENT AS MARKET DRIVER
In order to get a market moving, and to show that the government
believes in the security of this system, the feds will be the first big
customers for this product. Users will include the FBI, Secret Service,
VP Al Gore, and maybe even the President.
FROM MORE INFORMATION CONTACT:
Jerry Berman, Executive Director
Daniel J. Weitzner, Senior Staff Counsel
--
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent any organization; this is just me.
= kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
|
5845 | From: Desiree_Bradley@mindlink.bc.ca (Desiree Bradley)
Subject: Doing the work of God??!!)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Lines: 33
As our local.religion.christian BBS group seems moribund, I'm posting here.
On one of the Sundays just before Easter I went to church. The sermon was
based on a story in the Book of Joshua. (The one about Joshua sending out
spies to the land he was planning to take) What I particularly remember,
because of having heard part of a CBC radio documentary on Bosnia, was that
the Rahab (the woman who sheltered the spies) said that the people were
"melting in fear." What with having heard that CBC radio documentary and
knowing that the Muslims in Bosnia were losing the war, I felt
uncomfortable. After all, the Serbs are driving non-Christians out. On
the other hand, ministers do say that the Bible is opposed to the values
held by our secular society. Anyhow members of that church are involved in
out-of-country missionary work. Also, the pastor has talked of spiritual
warfare and of bringing Christ to the nonreligious people of our area.
The next Sunday, the sermon was about Joshua 6 (where the Israelites
take Jericho and then proceed to massacre everybody there --- except
for Rahab, who had sheltered the spies). With those reports about
Bosnia in my mind, I felt uncomfortable about the minister saying that
the massacre (the one in Joshua) was right. But what really bothered
me was that, if I was going to try taking Christianity seriously, I
shouldn't be so troubled about the reports of "ethnic cleansing" in
Bosnia. Certainly, my sympathies shouldn't be with the Moslims.
Considering that the Bosnian Muslims are descendants of Christians
who, under Turkish rule, converted to Islam could the Serbs be doing
God's work?
[The example of God's people setting out on bloody wars of conquest
has always been troubling in discussions here. I personally question
whether they were right even at the time. But those who believe they
were consider that the wars were justified only because they were
specifically commanded by God. Somehow I don't see the Serbs behaving
like a group that is led by God in this matter. --clh]
|
5846 | From: msjohnso@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Subject: Re: Big amateur rockets
Organization: NCR Corporation Wichita, KS
Lines: 86
pbd@runyon.cim.cdc.com (Paul Dokas) writes:
>I was reading Popular Science this morning and was surprised by an ad in
>the back. I know that a lot of the ads in the back of PS are fringe
>science or questionablely legal, but this one really grabbed my attention.
>It was from a company name "Personal Missle, Inc." or something like that.
The company was probably "Public Missiles, Inc" of Michigan.
>Anyhow, the ad stated that they'd sell rockets that were up to 20' in length
>and engines of sizes "F" to "M". They also said that some rockets will
>reach 50,000 feet.
Yup.
>Now, aside from the obvious dangers to any amateur rocketeer using one
>of these beasts, isn't this illegal? I can't imagine the FAA allowing
>people to shoot rockets up through the flight levels of passenger planes.
>Not to even mention the problem of locating a rocket when it comes down.
Nope, it's not illegal. It is, however, closely regulated. In order to
purchase and use the big rocket motors required, it is necessary to be
one of the following:
a) An employee of a government agency.
b) An employee or student at a university doing research involving rockets.
c) A member or representative of an educational organization involved in
research or other uses of rockets. There are two such organizations:
The Tripoli Rocketry Association and the National Association of Rocketry.
Members of either organization must demonstrate proficiency in construction
and flight before they are allowed to purchase large motors on their own.
The FAA will issue a waiver of its regulations, upon request, to any
organization which can persuade them it has taken adequate precautions
to avoid conflicts with aircraft. The usual stipulations are:
- Only operation up to a specified ceiling is allowed. Depending on the
location, this ceiling may be from 5000 to 50000 feet AGL.
- The operator of the rocket is responsible for avoiding any aircraft
within the operating radius around the launch site.
- Flight into clouds or beyond visual range in haze is expressly prohibited.
- The FAA will provide a NOTAM informing other users of the airspace that
unmanned rocket operations are taking place at the specified place and time.
Most of the launches that are held (and there are dozens of them every year)
are held in areas where air traffic is relatively light, such as over the
western deserts (the Black Rock Desert north of Reno is particularly popular
since it is 25 x 150 miles of *nothing to hit* on the ground).
The two rocketry associations test and approve motors for their members'
use, to insure safety. Depending on motor size, the launcher setback is
from 50 to 500 or more feet.
By the way, rockets under 1 lb and powered by an "F" motor are exempt from
most Federal regulations on unmanned rockets anyway. See FAR 101, Subpart
C, for details.
As for recovery...although the higher altitude rockets can reach up to
50,000 feet, most of them only get to 2,000 to 5,000 feet. The typical
rocket is 2 to 6 inches in diameter, and carries a 3 to 6 foot parachute,
or multiple parachutes, depending on the payload. Many rockets also carry
either a small transmitter or an audio sounder--particularly at launches
in the eastern US, where there are more obstructions.
Camera, telemetry transmitter, and video payloads are becoming quite common.
>And no, I'm not going to even think of buying one. I'm not that crazy.
Why not? It's a lot of fun...check out the traffic on rec.models.rockets
for information about the model (3 lb and under) and high power (everything
bigger) rocket hobbies. As with all dangerous activities, the key is to
practice safety. I've been flying consumer rockets ranging up to 4-5 lbs
takeoff weight for 27 years, and still have all my extremities intact.
>-Paul "mine'll do 50,000 feet and carries 50 pounds of dynamite" Dokas
That's another thing. NO EXPLOSIVE WARHEADS OF ANY KIND ARE ALLOWED ON THESE
ROCKETS. NONE! Please forgive me for shouting, but that's one of the biggest
misconceptions people have about our hobby.
>/* Just remember, you *WILL* die someday. */
True. But it will not be related to the rocket hobby, unless I get
hit while crossing a road with a rocket in my hand.
--
Mark Johnson USnail: NCR Peripheral Products Division
E-mail: Mark.Johnson@WichitaKS.NCR.COM 3718 N. Rock Rd.
Voice: (316) 636-8189 [V+ 654-8189] Wichita, KS 67226
[Non-business email: 76670.1775@compuserve.com]
|
5847 | From: tclark@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Terry Clark)
Subject: Re: CACHE or Micronics EISA/VLB Motherboard?
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Lines: 38
From article <1993Apr15.205654.20845@news.cs.indiana.edu>, by "Mohammad Al-Ansari" <alansari@mango.ucs.indiana.edu>:
>
> (CLIP) I am in
> the process of purchasing an EISA/VL Bus 486 DX2-66 computer
> (CLIP)
> The first is Ares and they use a Cache motherboard (that's
> the brand of the motherboard) with OPTI chip set, the other is Micron
> (formerly Edge Technology) and they use the Micronics EISA/VLB
> motherboard.
> (CLIP)
> I would REALLY appreciate any input on this. Is the Micron machine the
> clear choice? Does anyone know anything positive or negative about
> either company? Has anyone ever heard of Cache motherboards? Should I
> go with Micron just because it has the Micronics motherboard? etc.
>
> Thanks very much in advance for any information.
>
> --
> Mohammad Al-Ansari
Get back to your vendors, or better yet the board manufactures and get
some more info:
Where made.
Norton indexes (yeah I know BMs suck but whats a mother to do?)
number of slots, and types, # ESIA and # 32 bit?
Any IDE or SCSI on board?
How easy to upgrade RAM, location and # of pins.
OVERDRIVE?
Oscilator kits?
Does it have a 16550 UART?
Who's BIOS?
These might make you feel better about either system, but I must
agree that Ares with 7 days of 24 hr Tech and 2 year warranty is
encouraging.
________________________________________________________________
Terry Clark tclark@umaxc.uiowa.edu
You want an Opinion - You don't pay me enough for an Opinion
|
5848 | From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Re: That Kill by Sword, Must be Killed by Sword
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 18
In article <sandvik-190493201048@sandvik-kent.apple.com> sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>
>So are you happy now when 70+ people, including innocent kids,
>died today?
No, and Im especially unhappy that these 70+ people died in an assault
on private property with government armored vehicles.
I am also unhappy (or actually, very suspicious) that the FBI was dismissing
out of hand any chances that they might have accidentally set the blaze
themselves. I mean, I guess we are just supposed to believe that
ramming modified tanks into the walls of a building and injecting
toxic gases into the building are just routine procedures, no WAY
anything could go wrong.
--
Legalize Freedom
|
5849 | From: gt0523e@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael Andre Mule)
Subject: Militello update
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 22
HEY!!! All you Yankee fans who've been knocking my prediction of Baltimore.
You flooded my mailbox with cries of "Militello's good, Militello's good."
Where is he??!! I noticed he got skipped over after that oh so strong first
outing. He's not by any chance in Columbus now, is he? Please don't tell
me you're relying on this guy to be the *fourth*, not the fifth, but the
*fourth* starter on this brittle pitching staff.
As for the O's, it's still early.
See y'all at the ballyard
Go Braves
Chop Chop
Michael Mule'
--
Michael Andre Mule
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0523e
Internet: gt0523e@prism.gatech.edu
|
5850 | From: etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson)
Subject: Re: Pens Info needed
Nntp-Posting-Host: uipc104.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Telecom, Stockholm, Sweden
Lines: 44
Kevin L. Stamber writes:
>If there's anyone who can help me on these items, please
>let me know.
>
>* Markus Naslund -- I saw that MoDo lost early in the National
> tournament and that he was playing for the national
> team at the World Championships. Any stats
> available? Any word on how he's playing? When
> is he expected to join the club?
>
Markus had a good season in MoDo in the Swedish elite league, scoring
22 goals, 17 assists, 39 points and 67 PIM in 39 games.
As Daryl points out, Markus won't be joining the Pens for this year's
playoffs, since the World Championships starts April 18th.
But there is a good chance that Markus will join the Pens before next
season. MoDo, though, naturally wants to keep their superstars Forsberg
and Naslund, so the latest news on this is that MoDo is looking for
personal sponsors for Forsberg and Naslund in order to match the kind
of money they would receive in NHL.
Daryl Turner writes:
>By 'the club', I would assume you mean the Pens. Don't hold your breath,
>you aren't going to see Naslund this year. The World Championship
>Tournament doesn't start until 18 April. So NHL teams won't see any
>influx of Europeans, and no team playing in the WC will see a sudden
>influx of 'eliminated' NHLers. The earliest a player on a playoff bound
>team could join a WC-team is the last game of the round robin, and I
>doubt any coach is going to want to play short one player for that long.
Actually, Swedish coach Curt Lundmark is thinking about leaving two
spots open for additions from eliminated NHLers. It is Mats Sundin and
Calle Johansson that Curt hopes can join the team, although in a late
stage of the tournament. Technically, I seem to recall that you can leave
spots open until 24 hrs before the WC final.
Staffan
--
((\\ //| Staffan Axelsson
\\ //|| etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se
\\_))//-|| r.s.h. contact for Swedish hockey
|
5851 | From: madman@austin.ibm.com (Steve Heracleous)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...
Originator: madman@suave.austin.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Austin
Lines: 20
This is a two-sided problem. Unfortunately our culture has been deteriorating over time.
The "breeding" of these low-life's is getting worse; our justice system is at best
extremely weak to handle these problems. That is why low-abiding citizens should have
the power to protect themselves and their property using deadly force if necessary
anywhere a threat is imminent.
My Camaro (my pride and joy) got stolen right out of my driveway a few years back.
The persons that did that were eventually caught (lucky for me!) but not before
having trashed the car.
On another occasion, on my way from Texas to Florida, I had stopped in a small motel
for the night in a small town somewhere in Florida. About 5 youths were disturbing my
car, setting off the alarm and challenging me to come out. When I and another tenant
walked out with a 357 Magnum and a 45 automatic respectively, they vanished.
Needless to say, I immediately packed-up and left.
Watch out for car-jacking and staged accidents. They can be deadly!
Steve Heracleous
|
5852 | From: lfoard@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage
Organization: ITC/UVA Community Access UNIX/Internet Project
Lines: 61
In article <Apr.17.06.54.41.1993.15825@romulus.rutgers.edu> kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes:
>In article <C5K5LC.CyF@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> lfoard@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>
>> 1) So what?
>
>So this bolsters the contention that many homosexuals are liars.
So if this study is proved wrong then it proves that heterosexuals
are liars? Unlike the propaganda spouted by the far right the ten
percent figure was backed up by the best study available at the time.
Its hardly certain that this new study is correct since it hasn't
even been out for enough time for any double checking to happen.
>The Alan Guttmacher Institute, btw, is funded by Planned Parenthood,
>so it hardly qualifies as a bastion of conservatism, or of "family
>values".
Of course if they had found 10% then it would be invalid because it
was funded by planned parenthood :)
>> 2) It will be interesting to see the reaction when 2.5million queers
>> gather in Washington DC. After all if there are only 6million of
>> us then this is an event unprecidented in history...
>
>This preassumes that 2.5 million queers will show up on April 25th.
>There won't be anywhere near that many. Go ahead -- make my day --
>promote that number. That way, it will surely be a much greater
>embarrassment and slap in the face to homosexual activists when the
>crowds are much smaller.
Even if its "only" one million the point still stands. Even getting
1/6th of a given population in one place would be unprecidented.
If even 1 million show up in DC it will raise serious doubts about
this study, or indicate a resolve unprecidented in human history.
>BTW, have you noticed that even Slick Willie isn't going to be in town
>that day?
He isn't the target of the march, nor do presidents often speak at
civil rights marchs (of course it would have been nice). However
the republicans and conservative democrats would do well to take
notice.
>> --
>> ------ Join the Pythagorean Reform Church! .
>> \ / Repent of your evil irrational numbers . .
>> \ / and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart! . . .
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>> \/ Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568 . . . .
>
>The above smacks of antiHispanic bigotry.
This is quite amusing. Obviously you know nothing about the history
of math.
--
------ Join the Pythagorean Reform Church! .
\ / Repent of your evil irrational numbers . .
\ / and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart! . . .
\/ Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568 . . . .
|
5853 | From: prm@ecn.purdue.edu (Philip R. Moyer)
Subject: Re: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption
Organization: Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: na
Lines: 27
In article <1993Apr17.032022.14021@clarinet.com>, brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
|>
|> Let's assume, for the moment, that the system really is secure unless
|> you get both halves of the encryption key from the two independent
|> escrow houses. Let's say you even trust the escrow houses -- one is
|> the ACLU and the other is the EFF. (And I'm not entirely joking about
|> those two names)
|>
|> In that case the Prince of Wales has nothing to worry about on this
|> system.
I must respectfully disagree with this assertion, Brad. The government is
notoriously sloppy with physical, communications, and information security. They
can't keep their computers safe, and they're "trying". Read "DEA is
Not Adequately Protecting National Security Information" [GAO/IMTEC 92-31] for an
excellent example of what I'm talking about.
Private sector organizations tend to be even more lax in their security measures.
I believe that the escrow organizations will be penetrated by foreign
intelligence services within months, if not weeks, of their selection. Private
organizations that lack the resources of a full-fleged intelligence service will
take longer - perhaps on the order of one to two years. Nonetheless, the
penetrations will take place, without question.
Philip R. Moyer ECN Software Staff
Engineering Computer Network Voice: 317-494-3648
prm@ecn.purdue.edu Fax: 317-494-6440
|
5854 | From: rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)
Subject: Re: Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction
Organization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA
Lines: 17
NNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.bih.harvard.edu
In article <1993Apr22.153000.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu>
banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes:
>poster for being treated by a liscenced physician for a disease that did
>not exist. Calling this physician a quack was reprehensible Steve and I
>see that you and some of the others are doing it here as well.
Do you believe that any quacks exist? How about quack diagnoses? Is
being a "licensed physician" enough to guarantee that someone is not
a quack, or is it just that even if a licensed physician is a quack,
other people shouldn't say so? Can you give an example of a
commonly diagnosed ailment that you think is a quack diagnosis,
or have we gotten to the point in civilization where we no longer
need to worry about unscrupulous "healers" taking advantage of
people.
--
David Rind
rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu
|
5855 | From: samson@prlhp1.prl.philips.co.uk (Mark Samson)
Subject: Psygnosis CD-I titles (was Re: Rumours about 3DO ???)
Reply-To: samson@prlhp1.UUCP (Mark Samson)
Organization: Philips Research Laboratories, Redhill, UK
Lines: 42
In article <1993Apr20.130854.27039@rchland.ibm.com> ricardo@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
>
> Anyway, still with 15Mhz, you need sprites for a lot of tricks for
>making cool awesome games (read psygnosis).
Speaking of Psygnosis, they have licensed games to Philips Interative
Media International for CD-I.
The following was recently posted in a message in the CD-I section of
the Multimedia Forum.
"Seventh Guest has been licensed by Virgin Games to Philips Interactive
Media International for worldwide CD-I rights. Were also licensed to
P.I.M.I. Litil Divil from Gremlin Graphics (UK) and Microcosm from
Psygnosis (UK). Those three titles will be adapted on CD-I using the full
potential of the FMV cartridge, meaning, using the additional memory as
well as the motion video capabilities. Those titles have been negociated
in Europe but will be available worldwide.
Also, Lemmings 1 & 2 have been licensed from Psygnosis, as well as Striker
Soccer from Rage (UK)."
I don't know when these titles will be available or when work on them even
started (so don't expect your CD-I retailer to have them yet).
There was also some mention of future Nintendo CD-I games in an issue of the
UK magazine ERT - Mario Hotel was mentioned as having 75 levels.
Mark
[Although I work for Philips, I don't work on CD-I or multimedia. The above
info is just provided in good faith from what I've read and does not
represent any statement from Philips]
******************************************************************************
Mark Samson: Information Technology Group, Philips Research Laboratories,
Cross Oak Lane, Redhill, Surrey RH1 5HA
Tel(my Ext): 0293 815387 Tel(labs): 0293 785544 Telex: 877261 Fax: 0293 776495
Email:- SERI: samson@prlhp0 UNIX: samson@prl.philips.co.uk
Binary files: packages@prlhp0
******************************************************************************
|
5856 | From: zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi)
Subject: Re: Clipper Chip. LONG follow up.
Lines: 478
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
In article <16695@rand.org>, jim@rand.org (Jim Gillogly) writes:
> This document is in the anonymous ftp directory at NIST. Looks to me
> like the other shoe has dropped.
>
> Jim Gillogly
> Trewesday, 25 Astron S.R. 1993, 17:00
>
Thanks for posting this and making it available. This post will be LONG, I will
comment on most of it, and am reluctantly leaving all of the original in place
to provide context.
Please note that an alt. group has been set up for the Clipper stuff.
> -------------------
>
> Note: This file will also be available via anonymous file
> transfer from csrc.ncsl.nist.gov in directory /pub/nistnews and
> via the NIST Computer Security BBS at 301-948-5717.
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> THE WHITE HOUSE
>
> Office of the Press Secretary
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
> For Immediate Release April 16, 1993
>
>
> STATEMENT BY THE PRESS SECRETARY
>
>
> The President today announced a new initiative that will bring
> the Federal Government together with industry in a voluntary
^^^^^^^^^
Hum, AT&T, VLSI and Mykotronx are 'industry'?
Wonder what happened to IBM, this should be right up their street.
And a mandateed scheme is voluntary? Mr Orwell would love this.
> program to improve the security and privacy of telephone
^^^^^^^^^
> communications while meeting the legitimate needs of law
> enforcement.
Telephone encryption and scrambleing are years behind digital ones like RSA,
IDEA, or even DES. The above, while literaly true, is a clasic straw-man claim
in the context of non-real-time circuits such as E-mail and the like.
> The initiative will involve the creation of new products to
> accelerate the development and use of advanced and secure
> telecommunications networks and wireless communications links.
>
I would modestly propose that a mandated use of ISDN would do more for commun-
ications than this lot.
> For too long there has been little or no dialogue between our
> private sector and the law enforcement community to resolve the
> tension between economic vitality and the real challenges of
> protecting Americans. Rather than use technology to accommodate
> the sometimes competing interests of economic growth, privacy and
> law enforcement, previous policies have pitted government against
> industry and the rights of privacy against law enforcement.
>
> Sophisticated encryption technology has been used for years to
> protect electronic funds transfer. It is now being used to
> protect electronic mail and computer files. While encryption
Normmaly DES.
> technology can help Americans protect business secrets and the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> unauthorized release of personal information, it also can be used
> by terrorists, drug dealers, and other criminals.
Note the use of the word "business" in the above. The whole tenor of this
release seems to be establishing a ground rule that only "business" use
is legitimate for debate. If you want the nothings you drop in your wife's
ear to remain secret and private, that is not even on the agenda for debate.
Note that there is NO role for you to contain private info in this. The only
reference is to information already in the hands of others. The 'unauthorized
release' bit is also drawing a long bow. Most of these cases are by people who
have legitimate access abusing it, and revealing, or often selling the info.
These people are, of course, in this proposal, the people who will have the
keys.
The criminals also use lawers, courts, the CIA, white-house officials and pens
to go about their business. When will they be outlawed as well? Yeah, several
of them would be a better idea than CLipper!
Them again, the protections of law and the courts have been seriously erroded
over the last decade ofr so.
> A state-of-the-art microcircuit called the "Clipper Chip" has
> been developed by government engineers. The chip represents a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NSA
> new approach to encryption technology.
Yeah, this bit is VERY true.
>....It can be used in new,
> relatively inexpensive encryption devices that can be attached to
> an ordinary telephone. It scrambles telephone communications
> using an encryption algorithm that is more powerful than many in
> commercial use today.
>
Note the repeated mixing of telephone scrabeling and encryption. A demo
of the above claim on an ordanary POTS would be a good nights entertainment
I suspect. Note also the 'many'. not 'all', as the general tone implies.
> This new technology will help companies protect proprietary
^^^^^^^^^
> information, protect the privacy of personal phone conversations
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> and prevent unauthorized release of data transmitted
> electronically. At the same time this technology preserves the
> ability of federal, state and local law enforcement agencies to
> intercept lawfully the phone conversations of criminals.
The case record seems to indicate that what is needed is a brutal tightening
of the current abuses. I have not heard, yet, of a case that was impeaded by
the use of secure encryption by the men in black. The other side, abuse by law
enforcers is well documented, even by govt agencies. And the phone vs other coms
is blurred yet again.
> A "key-escrow" system will be established to ensure that the
> "Clipper Chip" is used to protect the privacy of law-abiding
> Americans.
> A "key-escrow" system will be established to ensure that the
> "Clipper Chip" is used to protect the privacy of law-abiding
> Americans.
Lets run that line twice. Not **VERY** carefully what it says. The stated
purpose of the key eschrow is to make the use of Clipper compulsory. Note the
word "ensure". As to 'protect', or 'law-abiding', I will leave to you.
So to the person who asked if it included the outlawing of other encryptions,
the answer in this press release is, YES.
> ...Each device containing the chip will have two unique
> "keys," numbers that will be needed by authorized government
> agencies to decode messages encoded by the device. When the
> device is manufactured, the two keys will be deposited separately
> in two "key-escrow" data bases that will be established by the
> Attorney General. Access to these keys will be limited to
> government officials with legal authorization to conduct a
> wiretap.
Just as they only can wiretap now with a warrent.
> The "Clipper Chip" technology provides law enforcement with no
> new authorities to access the content of the private
> conversations of Americans.
Just makes sure that the illegal ones are preserved.
> To demonstrate the effectiveness of this new technology, the
> Attorney General will soon purchase several thousand of the new
> devices. In addition, respected experts from outside the
> government will be offered access to the confidential details of
> the algorithm to assess its capabilities and publicly report
> their findings.
Where do you find many experts. Any ex KGB people looking for a contract? :-)
And as a later posting asks, what of the STU-IIIs they already have. It will
be very interesting to see if the military and US embasies start to use it.
After all, it is secure, isn't it. The govt will answer that point by its own
actions.
> The chip is an important step in addressing the problem of
> encryption's dual-edge sword: encryption helps to protect the
> privacy of individuals and industry, but it also can shield
> criminals and terrorists. We need the "Clipper Chip" and other
> approaches that can both provide law-abiding citizens with access
> to the encryption they need and prevent criminals from using it
> to hide their illegal activities. In order to assess technology
> trends and explore new approaches (like the key-escrow system),
> the President has directed government agencies to develop a
> comprehensive policy on encryption that accommodates:
>
> -- the privacy of our citizens, including the need to
> employ voice or data encryption for business purposes;
^^^^^^^^
Again, personal use seems to be a unaskable question.
>
> -- the ability of authorized officials to access telephone
> calls and data, under proper court or other legal
^^^^^
> order, when necessary to protect our citizens;
Ah, so warrents are not always needed it seems.
>
> -- the effective and timely use of the most modern
> technology to build the National Information
> Infrastructure needed to promote economic growth and
> the competitiveness of American industry in the global
> marketplace; and
>
> -- the need of U.S. companies to manufacture and export
> high technology products.
The ITARs seem to slightly impeed this.
> The President has directed early and frequent consultations with
> affected industries, the Congress and groups that advocate the
> privacy rights of individuals as policy options are developed.
> The Administration is committed to working with the private
> sector to spur the development of a National Information
> Infrastructure which will use new telecommunications and computer
> technologies to give Americans unprecedented access to
> information. This infrastructure of high-speed networks
> ("information superhighways") will transmit video, images, HDTV
> programming, and huge data files as easily as today's telephone
> system transmits voice.
Note that all this wonderfull stuff will be in secret. Only the 'proper people'
will be able to express an opinion, hence only the desired result will emerge.
> Since encryption technology will play an increasingly important
> role in that infrastructure, the Federal Government must act
> quickly to develop consistent, comprehensive policies regarding
> its use. The Administration is committed to policies that
> protect all Americans' right to privacy while also protecting
> them from those who break the law.
Encryption and codes have been around for millenia. They are generaly in
equilibrium with the technology of the time. The systematic study of cyphers
has resulted in a swing in favor of the encrypter, AT THE MOMENT. I have no
doubt that the factoring problem will fall in time. Probably fofr practical
purposes by the middle of the next century.
> Further information is provided in an accompanying fact sheet.
> The provisions of the President's directive to acquire the new
> encryption technology are also available.
>
> For additional details, call Mat Heyman, National Institute of
> Standards and Technology, (301) 975-2758.
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION'S
> TELECOMMUNICATIONS INITIATIVE
>
>
>
>
> Q: Does this approach expand the authority of government
> agencies to listen in on phone conversations?
>
> A: No. "Clipper Chip" technology provides law enforcement with
> no new authorities to access the content of the private
> conversations of Americans.
>
> Q: Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on
> a drug smuggling ring and intercepts a conversation
> encrypted using the device. What would they have to do to
> decipher the message?
>
> A: They would have to obtain legal authorization, normally a
> court order, to do the wiretap in the first place. They
> would then present documentation of this authorization to
> the two entities responsible for safeguarding the keys and
> obtain the keys for the device being used by the drug
> smugglers. The key is split into two parts, which are
> stored separately in order to ensure the security of the key
> escrow system.
>
> Q: Who will run the key-escrow data banks?
>
> A: The two key-escrow data banks will be run by two independent
> entities. At this point, the Department of Justice and the
> Administration have yet to determine which agencies will
> oversee the key-escrow data banks.
It is a little hard to critisise a non-proposal.
> Q: How strong is the security in the device? How can I be sure
> how strong the security is?
>
> A: This system is more secure than many other voice encryption
> systems readily available today.
Note we drop back to 'phone-mode' again. If this is a true answer, it can be
rephrased as " It sucks big time. Anyone who can drive the crypt work-bench
will use it for light amusement before breakfast."
> ... While the algorithm will
> remain classified to protect the security of the key escrow
> system,
This link between the security of the key-eschrow, and the actual algorithm is
a real winner. Given that I have 2 secret 40 bit numbers, could someone please
explain how the details of an encryption algorithm will reveal them?
> ... we are willing to invite an independent panel of
> cryptography experts to evaluate the algorithm to assure all
> potential users that there are no unrecognized
> vulnerabilities.
Just make sure you read the CVs REAL carfully, OK.
>
> Q: Whose decision was it to propose this product?
>
> A: The National Security Council, the Justice Department, the
> Commerce Department, and other key agencies were involved in
> this decision. This approach has been endorsed by the
> President, the Vice President, and appropriate Cabinet
> officials.
Quick, with out looking back, What name is missing from that list?
> Q: Who was consulted? The Congress? Industry?
>
> A: We have on-going discussions with Congress and industry on
> encryption issues, and expect those discussions to intensify
> as we carry out our review of encryption policy. We have
> briefed members of Congress and industry leaders on the
> decisions related to this initiative.
The people who agree with us and who think there is a buck in it for them.
> Q: Will the government provide the hardware to manufacturers?
>
> A: The government designed and developed the key access
> encryption microcircuits, but it is not providing the
> microcircuits to product manufacturers. Product
> manufacturers can acquire the microcircuits from the chip
> manufacturer that produces them.
The reverse engineering provisions of the 'Mask-work' act could be relevent
here.
> Q: Who provides the "Clipper Chip"?
>
> A: Mykotronx programs it at their facility in Torrance,
> California, and will sell the chip to encryption device
> manufacturers. The programming function could be licensed
> to other vendors in the future.
>
> Q: How do I buy one of these encryption devices?
>
> A: We expect several manufacturers to consider incorporating
> the "Clipper Chip" into their devices.
You don't. Not unless you are one of the 'right people'.
> Q: If the Administration were unable to find a technological
> solution like the one proposed, would the Administration be
> willing to use legal remedies to restrict access to more
> powerful encryption devices?
>
> A: This is a fundamental policy question which will be
> considered during the broad policy review. The key escrow
They missed the word secret here. He needs a grammar lesson too.
> mechanism will provide Americans with an encryption product
> that is more secure, more convenient, and less expensive
> than others readily available today, but it is just one
> piece of what must be the comprehensive approach to
> encryption technology, which the Administration is
> developing.
I would say "less secure, less conveniant, more expensive ( PGP is free ),
less available, and more prone to being comprimised"
Proofs to the contarary will be welcome. Note PROOF.
> The Administration is not saying, "since encryption
> threatens the public safety and effective law enforcement,
> we will prohibit it outright" (as some countries have
> effectively done); nor is the U.S. saying that "every
> American, as a matter of right, is entitled to an
> unbreakable commercial encryption product."
They don't seem to be saying anything that makes much sense. And this proposal
DOES prohibit it except in a very limited way. And, this is the one explicit
reference to personal rights. It is a denial. And yes, I don't think that the
Mexicans, Brazilians, and Canucks are included in Clinton et als magnanamous
gesture.
> ... There is a
> false "tension" created in the assessment that this issue is
> an "either-or" proposition. Rather, both concerns can be,
> and in fact are, harmoniously balanced through a reasoned,
> balanced approach such as is proposed with the "Clipper
> Chip" and similar encryption techniques.
The 'false tension' is false. The balance is between two repugnant points. The
RIGHT to privacy is hand-waved to non-existance by putting it behind the "false
assessment". It is assumed that the removal of the right to take what ever steps
YOU deem suitable to protect YOUR privacy is non negotiable, hence is defined
in the govenment language to be non-existant. If you don't agree, you must be a
criminal, as only criminals don't agree with out laws. Also note the non-
question. "If what is here was not possible..."
> Q: What does this decision indicate about how the Clinton
> Administration's policy toward encryption will differ from
> that of the Bush Administration?
>
> A: It indicates that we understand the importance of encryption
> technology in telecommunications and computing and are
> committed to working with industry and public-interest
> groups to find innovative ways to protect Americans'
> privacy, help businesses to compete, and ensure that law
> enforcement agencies have the tools they need to fight crime
> and terrorism.
It indicates we know that Bush dropped the ball in squashing that nasty < insert
suitable retoric > and will stamp out this disorderly, unruley outbreak of
freedom and ultra-national sentiment.
> Q: Will the devices be exportable? Will other devices that use
> the government hardware?
>
> A: Voice encryption devices are subject to export control
> requirements. Case-by-case review for each export is
> required to ensure appropriate use of these devices. The
> same is true for other encryption devices. One of the
> attractions of this technology is the protection it can give
> to U.S. companies operating at home and abroad. With this
> in mind, we expect export licenses will be granted on a
> case-by-case basis for U.S. companies seeking to use these
> devices to secure their own communications abroad. We plan
> to review the possibility of permitting wider exportability
> of these products.
>
This one is a real giggle. In Australia or France, they will have to reveal the
keys, and the algorithm. Don't think it's at the top of my list of things I must
have, so the restrictions will protect me from saleks trying to sell me a bill
of crock.
Any for any others using it, they must be nuts!
Good luck folks.
~Paul
|
5857 | From: rmbult01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Robert M. Bultman)
Subject: AST Hot Shot 286
Summary: AST Hot Shot 286
Nntp-Posting-Host: starbase.spd.louisville.edu
Organization: University of Louisville
Keywords: AST Hot Shot 286
Lines: 23
I recently acquired an AST Hot Shot 286 accellerator board for an 8088
sans documentation.
Does anyone know what the dip switches on the
back of the card do?
Did it come with software?
Any help or information about the card would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks,
Rob
--
Robert M. Bultman |
Speed Scientific School |
University of Louisville |
Internet: rmbult01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu |
--
Robert M. Bultman |
Speed Scientific School |
University of Louisville |
Internet: rmbult01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu |
|
5858 | From: mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Marc Gabriel)
Subject: Bouncing LymeNet newsletters...
Organization: Lehigh University
Lines: 22
The following 4 addresses are on the LymeNet mailing list, but are rejecting
mail. Since the list server originally accepted these addresses successfully,
I assume these addresses have since been eliminated. Improperly functioning
mail gateways might also be responsible.
If you are listed here and would still like to remain on the list, please
write to me. Otherwise, I will remove these addresses from the list before the
next newsletter goes out.
As a general rule, please remember to *unsubscribe* from all your mailing
lists before your account is closed. This will save the listserv maintainer
from many headaches.
Lezliel@Sitka.Sun.COM
Kenneth_R_Hall@Roch817.Xerox.COM
Westmx!ayoub@uunet.uu.net
Absol.absol.com!rsb@panix.COM
--
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc C. Gabriel - U.C. Box 545 -
(215) 882-0138 Lehigh University
|
5859 | From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!!
Nntp-Posting-Host: ucsu.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 22
In article <1993Apr20.124518.886@batman.bmd.trw.com> auerbach@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:
>Women stand up for your right to be just as stupid as men.
Our new Attorney General seems determined to do so. In the past
few days she has said:
She hopes the King beating will not reduce public confidince
in law enforcement.
The tactics of using tear gas and driving tanks through
walls in Waco were intended to further a "peacefull solution"
to the crisis.
Those same tactics were intended to prevent a mass suicide,
but she never expected the sect to react by killing themselves.
It's comforting to know, at least, that she wasn't Clinton's first
choice...
Frank Crary
CU Boulder
|
5860 | From: revco@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (John Boockholdt)
Subject: Re: Lane Sharing in CA
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Lines: 11
In three years of riding in the cities of San Jose,
Santa Clara, and Sunnyvale I never came into any
conflict with the local police over my lane splitting
habits (all three of these cities were listed earlier
as being anti-splitting in one way or another). I
can't say whether this was due to luck, police
kindness, or there not actually being any ordinances
against it in these cities, so I continue.....
RevCo
|
5861 | From: behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
Subject: Re: Observation re: helmets
Organization: NEC Systems Laboratory, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Lines: 48
>maven@mavenry.altcit.eskimo.com (Norman Hamer) writes:
>|>
>|> Grf. Dropped my Shoei RF-200 off the seat of my bike while trying to
>|> rock
>|> it onto it's centerstand, chipped the heck out of the paint on it...
>|>
>|> So I cheerfully spent $.59 on a bottle of testor's model paint and
>|> repainted the scratches and chips for 20 minutes.
>|>
>|> The question for the day is re: passenger helmets, if you don't know
>|> for
>|> certain who's gonna ride with you (like say you meet them at a ....
>|> church
>|> meeting, yeah, that's the ticket)... What are some guidelines? Should
>|> I just
>|> pick up another shoei in my size to have a backup helmet (XL), or
>|> should I
>|> maybe get an inexpensive one of a smaller size to accomodate my
>|> likely
>|> passenger?
Do I have to be the one to say it?
DON'T BE SO STUPID AS TO LEAVE YOUR HELMET ON THE SEAT WHERE IT CAN
FALL DOWN AND GO BOOM!
That kind of fall is what the helmet is designed to protect against.
If you fall with the helmet on and you hit the same spot the helmet landed
on during the drop, the helmet may not protect your head as well as it was
intended to do. Conservative rec.moto'ers will recommend that you replace
the helmet. If you want to be sure that it will protect you adequately, you
should.
HELMETS GO ON THE GROUND, ON A TABLE, ON A CHAIR, ON A SHELF, OR ON
ANY OTHER SURFACE THAT IS LARGE ENOUGH TO SUPPORT THEM SO THAT THEY
WILL NOT EASILY BE KNOCKED DOWN.
Jeezus. My new Shoei would be $340 to replace. You think I'm going
to leave it to chance?
Cripe.
Later,
--
Chris BeHanna DoD# 114 1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com 1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer: Now why would NEC 1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway? I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.
|
5862 | From: ianhogg@milli.cs.umn.edu (Ian J. Hogg)
Subject: Re: how to put RPC in HP X/motif environment?
Nntp-Posting-Host: milli.cs.umn.edu
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Lines: 15
In article <1993Apr19.200740.17615@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> nchan@nova.ctr.columbia.edu (Nui Chan) writes:
>
>has anybody implements an RPC server in the HP Xwindows? In SUN Xview, there
>is a notify_enable_rpc_svc() call that automatically executes the rpc processes
>when it detects an incoming request. I wonder if there is a similar function in
>HP X/motif that perform the same function.
>
I've been using the xrpc package for about a year now. I believe I got it from
export.
--
===============================================================================
Ian Hogg ianhogg@cs.umn.edu
(612) 424-6332
|
5863 | From: Doug <usergdef@um.cc.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: For Sale: Book of Life multi-volume book set unopened
Organization: University of Michigan
Lines: 6
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.211.110.79
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17
X-XXDate: Mon, 5 Apr 93 23:26:58 GMT
I was wrong! I guess they are closer to $800 new! I will
probably still sell them for the above implied $300 obo.
Email me if you want more specifics. This is a really
attractive set of books, kind of a Bible encyclopedia set.
Also email me if you know more about these books or post
the information here.
|
5864 | From: news@cbnewsk.att.com
Subject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs
Lines: 18
In article <May.3.05.01.53.1993.9964@athos.rutgers.edu> a.faris@trl.oz.au (Aziz Faris) writes:
>[I think you're talking about the "assumption of the Blessed Virgin
>Mary". It says that "The Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin
>Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed
>body and soul into heavenly glory." This was defined by a Papal
>statement in 1950, though it had certainly been believed by some
>before that. --clh]
So true. I'm not sure of the basis of the belief, but it was a widely
held belief among the laity of the RC church and their support of it
lead to it being declared to be true. Basically the teaching on infallibility
holds that the pope is infallible in matters of faith and doctrine, the
college of bishops is likewise infallible, and the laity is as well.
The pope gets most of the attention/criticism but the consensus of the
other bodies is equally infallible (according to RC teaching).
Joe Moore
|
5865 | From: af774@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chad Cipiti)
Subject: Good shareware paint and/or animation software for SGI?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 15
Reply-To: af774@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chad Cipiti)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu
Does anyone know of any good shareware animation or paint software for an SGI
machine? I've exhausted everyplace on the net I can find and still don't hava
a nice piece of software.
Thanks alot!
Chad
--
Knock, knock. Chad Cipiti
Who's there? af774@cleveland.freenet.edu
cipiti@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
It might be Heisenberg. chad@voxel.zool.ohiou.edu
|
5866 | From: gtoal@gtoal.com (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Would "clipper" make a good cover for other encryption method?
Lines: 22
: From: brad@optilink.COM (Brad Yearwood)
: Assume in this case the usual canard-adversary of narcotraficantes. They
: probably have more cash than the KGB did, and they're probably more generous
: at handing it out. It will be easier than ever to find or cultivate Walkers
: and Pollards for the keys, and it will be easy enough to find someone to
: reverse-engineer the chip (unless the tamper proofing is damned clever and
: effective).
If the administration *really* believes big-time drug dealers are the threat
(personally I thought it was the CIA and the air force that did all the real
drug shipping :-) ) then they *ought* to take this seriously: unlike the
KGB, drug dealers can make a most convincing argument for cooperation: "help
us and we'll be nice and give you some money, don't help us and we'll start
cutting off your favourite body parts"
After all, it was probably an argument like that that persuaded Jack Ruby to
shoot Oswald in full view of the police. Life in jail probably seems much
more preferable to most people than several weeks of something nasty
followed by no life at all...
G
|
5867 | From: spring@diku.dk (Jesper Honig Spring)
Subject: 486/66DX2 (ISA) vs. 486/50DX2 (EISA)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen
Lines: 18
Hello,
Can anyone give me their opinion on which system has got the best overall
system performance;
486/66DX2 with ISA-BUS or
486/50DX2 with EISA-BUS
The systems are equal in all other areas.
Thanks in advance
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jesper honig spring, spring@diku.dk | IF ANIMALS BELIEVED IN GOD
university of copenhagen, denmark | THE DEVIL WOULD BE A MAN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
5868 | From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Home Medical Tests
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu
I am looking for current sources for lists of all the home
medical tests currently legally available.
I believe this trend of allowing tests at home where
feasible, decreased medical costs by a factor of 10 or
more and allows the patient some time and privacy to
consider the best action from the results of such tests.
In fact I believe home medical tests and certain basic
tests for serious diseases such as cancer, heart disease,
should be offered free to the American public.
This could actually help to reduce national medical costs
since many would have an earlier opportunity to know
about and work toward recuperation or cure.
Mike Romano
--
Sir, I admit your gen'ral rule
That every poet is a fool;
But you yourself may serve to show it,
That every fool is not a poet. A. Pope
|
5869 | From: johnr@cactus.org (John Hughes Rost)
Subject: Voice Processing for IBM PCs
Keywords: VOICE PROCESSING HARDWARE SOFTWARE
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Distribution: tx
Lines: 29
SALE: VOICE PROCESSING SYSTEM for IBM compatibles
Item: DIALOGIC/41B Multi-line Voice Processing System
Description: The DIALOG/41B is a PC XT/AT board that provides
processing functions and call progress analysis for four
independent phone lines simultaneously. The D/41B features
the ability to record, playback, autoanswer, auto-dial,
detect and generate DTMF tones, and perform telephone
mamagement functions.
With this card you can make your computer talk on
4 phone lines simultaneously. You can design your own
ANSWERING SYSTEM or by one already programmed. You can build
your own DIGITAL PAGER business and open up a business for
VOICE MAILBOXES.
Comes complete with manuals and demo software and programming
libraries for C (UNIX and DOS).
PRICE: LIST $1395.00
YOU PAY $795.00
For more info send mail!
Contact: John Rost
(512) 343-0332 <leave message>
johnr@cactus.org <send mail>
|
5870 | From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Boom! Dog attack!
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Lines: 36
ryan_cousineau@compdyn.questor.org (Ryan Cousineau) writes:
>Riding up the hill leading to my
>house, I encountered a liver-and-white Springer Spaniel (no relation to
>the Springer Softail, or the Springer Spagthorpe, a close relation to
>the Spagthorpe Viking).
I must have missed the article on the Spagthorpe Viking. Was
that the one with the little illuminated Dragon's Head on the front
fender, a style later copied by Indian, and the round side covers?
[accident deleted]
>What worries me about the accident is this: I don't think I could have
>prevented it except by traveling much slower than I was. This is not
>necessarily an unreasonable suggestion for a residential area, but I was
>riding around the speed limit.
You can forget this line of reasoning. When an animal
decides to take you, there's nothing you can do about it. It has
something to do with their genetics. I was putting along at a
mere 20mph or so, gravel road with few loose rocks on it (as in,
just like bad concrete), and 2200lbs of swinging beef jumped a
fence, came out of the ditch, and rammed me! When I saw her jump
the fence I went for the gas, since she was about 20 feet ahead
of me but a good forty to the side. Damn cow literally chased me
down and nailed me. No damage to cow, a bent case guard and a
severely annoyed rider were the only casualties. If I had my
shotgun I'd still be eating steak. Nope, if 2200lbs of cow
can hit me when I'm actively evading, forget a much more
manueverable dog. Just run them over.
< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
< ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. >
< USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines. Meet exciting, >
< unusual people. And flame them. >
|
5871 | From: noah@apple.com (Noah Price)
Subject: Re: How long do RAM SIMM's last?
Distribution: usa
Organization: (not the opinions of) Apple Computer, Inc.
Lines: 12
In article <1993Apr11.234818.1755@ultb.isc.rit.edu>,
jek5036@ultb.isc.rit.edu (J.E. King) wrote:
>
> Doesn't a 1 MB SIMM have about 1024 * 1024 * 8 moving flip-flops?
They don't move, to anybody much bigger than an electron :-)
noah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
noah@apple.com Macintosh Hardware Design
...!{sun,decwrl}!apple!noah (not the opinions of) Apple Computer, Inc.
|
5872 | From: rvloon@cv.ruu.NL (Ronald van Loon)
Subject: Announcing the Motif++ mailing list
Organization: University of Utrecht, 3D Computer Vision Research Group
Lines: 132
NNTP-Posting-Host: enterpoop.mit.edu
Keywords: mailinglist, motif++
To: xannounce@expo.lcs.mit.edu
I am glad and proud to announce the new mailing-list for the PD Motif C++
bindings. I got over 40 replies in about one week of people interested in
such a list, and the software has now been properly installed, so the list
is now up and running. For those interested in joining, please send e-mail
to that extend to 'motif++-request@cv.ruu.nl' or 'rvloon@cv.ruu.nl'.
The blurb everyone who joins gets follows, as well as the original
announcement for where Motif++ can be obtained.
Enjoy!
8< - 8< -
Welcome to the Motif++ Mailing List!
The Motif++ mailing list is a mailing list dedicated to Motif++, the PD C++
wrapper library for Motif, where people can ask questions about Motif++,
swap stories, and give new ideas about new directions and improvements for the
bindings.
All requests of an administrative nature, like subscription, removal, etc.
should be directed to motif++-request@cv.ruu.nl
All e-mail sent to motif++@cv.ruu.nl will be sent to the entire list, so
please make sure when using 'vacation' type programs that will reply to
messages automatically, that the address for the mailing-list is excluded
from auto-replies.
Enjoy!
Ronald van Loon | In theory, there is no difference
(rvloon@cv.ruu.nl) | between theory and practice.
3DCV Group, Utrecht |
The Netherlands | In practice however, there is.
8< - 8< -
Hello Motif World,
over the past half year there have been a lot of relatively minor changes to
the Motif++ bindings. Imake support has been improved, a few defaults have
been changed, and a lot of other small things have been added.
This is basically a release which drops the 'gamma' status. Next release will
incorporate some improvements by Stefan Schwarz, and possibly will support
X11R5 and Motif 1.2.x.
Note to all of those who keep copies of the archive: please retrieve this
distribution (during off-peak hours), and delete all previous copies.
Here is the original ANNOUNCEMENT:
HISTORY
The University of Lowell, supported by a grant of the Open Software Foundation,
has developed a wrapper-library, that encapsulates Motif widgets in C++
classes. All resources of these Widgets can now be set through
member-functions, while objects can be used in callback-functions. The library
was made available for free or nominal cost for anonymous ftp at 129.63.1.1.
However, the library contained a large number of bugs and oversights, and only
worked under X11R3. Due to lack of subsequent fundings, the bindings are no
longer actively supported by the University of Lowell.
I, Ronald van Loon, at a certain point last year, have taken the Lowell
bindings, fixing the bugs I came across, adding missing memberfunctions, and
enhancing functionality and made the bug-fixed library available for the
general public for anonymous ftp (made possible by Rick Murphy at DEC).
NEW RELEASE
I am now pleased to announce a new and updated release of the Motif++
bindings.
This release offers:
- Full Motif1.1 and X11R4 support
- Support for Xbae widgetset
- Two additional widgets, written by myself, that can be used to indicate
progress in an application.
- Imake support. NB: this release relies heavily on the existence of imake
and its config files on your site. I have tried to
provide the bindings with a standard Makefile, tweakable
for those unfortunates without imake. I have not severely
tested the standard Makefile though. Contact me if you
have problems. The reason for calling this a gamma
release lies in the fact that I do not have a multitude
of platforms to test the Imake-files on.
- Lots of testfiles (even somewhat useful programs)
- An article I wrote on the usage of Motif, X and C++, previously posted
on Usenet.
WHERE TO GET THE NEW MOTIF BINDINGS
Ftp:
Anonymous ftp at decuac.dec.com (192.5.214.1), directory /pub/X11.
Note:
Please be patient as the network link is quite slow. Please do not FTP large
files during working hours.
Also note that there is also a motif++.31.jan.92.tar.Z file at this site; this
is an old version of the bindings.
E-mail:
Those who don't have ftp can send me e-mail, and I will send the bindings by
e-mail.
REQUEST
Those who use the bindings and find bugs, or see room for improvement, please
contact me, and I will try to incorporate them in a future release (in case of
bugs, a bug-fix of course ;-).
MORE INFORMATION
Contact me at "rvloon@cv.ruu.nl".
If you are desperate, then you can call me at
+31 30 506711 (that is Utrecht, the Netherlands; those within the Netherlands
call 030-506711).
Enjoy!
--
Ronald van Loon | In theory, there is no difference
(rvloon@cv.ruu.nl) | between theory and practice.
3DCV Group, Utrecht |
The Netherlands | In practice however, there is.
|
5873 | From: Eric.Choi@p5.f175.n2240.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Choi)
Subject: Re: Educational Pricing/gray market
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2240/175.5 - Association Mac BBS, Grand Blanc MI
Lines: 17
eu> Apple does not authorise sales through Mail Order. As a result mail
eu> order companies have to obtain their machines by the grey market.
eu>
eu> This market is supplied with machines from authorised resellers who
eu> have more machines than they can sell. They come into this state of
eu> affairs by overordering either accidentally or deliberatly to get a
eu> better wholsale price from Apple. In either case they often obscure
eu> the serial nunber to protect their identity. As a result the warranty
eu> is void.
I have ordered several Macs from different mail order companies with absolutely zero problem. You have to dig around to find the true gray market dealers that sell Macs with authentic serial numbers untouched. There are value-added dealers (nothing to do with VAT, no flame please) that are very legitimate.
CDA unfortunately is one of those that replace the serial number with their own to prevent Apple from tracing which authorized dealer sold that machine to CDA.
--
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
Eric Choi - Internet: Eric.Choi@p5.f175.n2240.z1.fidonet.org
|
5874 | Subject: Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!!
From: steiner@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu (Jason 'Think!' Steiner)
Nntp-Posting-Host: jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]
Lines: 26
Brent Irvine (irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu) writes:
> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
> >mfrhein@wpi.WPI.EDU (Michael Frederick Rhein) writes:
> >
> >> >napalm, then let the wood stove inside ignite it.
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> As someone else has pointed out, why would the stove be in use
> >> on a warm day in Texas.
> >
> >Do YOU eat all your food cold?
> Ever hear of electric ovens or microwaves? Very popular.
> Electric stoves outside metro-areas especially.
oh, i see. electricity is a natural right & our wonderful government
would -never- cut off the power to the people they were besieging.
are you really this dumb, or just acting like it for the sake of
argument?
jason
--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,` "True love is better than anything, except cough drops." `,`
`,` - The Princess Bride (book), by William Goldman `,`
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` steiner@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu `,`,`,`
|
5875 | From: sgoldste@aludra.usc.edu (Fogbound Child)
Subject: Re: NEWS YOU WILL MISS, Apr 15
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 46
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
arf@genesis.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>In article <1qun1aINNik5@aludra.usc.edu> sgoldste@aludra.usc.edu (Fogbound Child) writes:
>>arf@genesis.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Yigal et al, sue ADL
>>>
>>
>>Why do you title this "News you will miss" ?
>>
>>There have been at least three front-page stories on it in the L.A. Times.
>>
>>I wouldn't exactly call that a media cover-up.
>This may come as a surprise to you but there are a few americans who do not
>read the LA Times.
Is this the same Monolithic, Centrally Controlled Media that you're always
talking about? Do you mean to tell me that the LA Times is the ONLY major
paper to buck the Media Spiking Division's activities?
>The Defamation League has done a first class job of damage control..in what
>little is left of the world outside of LA.
Assumption: When one major newspaper prints three or more articles on the front
page regarding subject matter that is not strictly local, this is likely
to be considered an open story, and not a coverup.
Let's hear a roll call here. Anyone outside of the LA area seen articles on
this?
>js
___Samuel___
Mossad Special Agent ID314159
Media Spiking & Mind Control Division
Los Angeles Offices (therefore, evidently, incompetent)
--
_________Pratice Safe .Signature! Prevent Dangerous Signature Virii!_______
Guildenstern: Our names shouted in a certain dawn ... a message ... a
summons ... There must have been a moment, at the beginning,
where we could have said -- no. But somehow we missed it.
|
5876 | From: diederic@spot.Colorado.EDU (Andrew Diederich)
Subject: BATF Acronym
Nntp-Posting-Host: spot.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Lines: 13
Haven't seen this one on here yet, so here it goes:
B. arely
A. dequate,
T. otally
F. ***ed!
I don't know about adequate, but it fits the acronym. =)
--
Andrew Diederich diederic@spot.colorado.edu
These opinions are only mine on alternate Tuesdays.
|
5877 | From: thomsonal@cpva.saic.com
Subject: What counntries do space surveillance?
Organization: Science Applications Int'l Corp./San Diego
Lines: 111
Ethnocentric USian that I am, I've assumed that we and the
xUSSR were the only countries with significant capabilities to track
non-cooperative objects in low Earth orbit. Grazing in a couple of
databases recently, I found that Japan has some optical capabilities
along this line, and also uses a radar designed for other purposes
for orbital debris surveys (it isn't clear whether the radar can
determine orbital elements for the objects it detects). Abstracts of
the articles are appended.
This leads to the more general question: do yet other people than
the US, Russia, and Japan do space surveillance, and if so, how and
why?
Allen Thomson SAIC McLean, VA, USA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
ABSTRACTS
Optical tracking of the experimental geodetic satellite (EGS)
TAKABE, MASAO; ITABE, TOSHIKAZU; ARUGA, TADASHI
Radio Research Laboratory, Review (ISSN 0033-801X), vol. 34,
March 1988, p. 23-34. In Japanese, with abstract in English.
This paper reports the optical tracking results of EGS
(experimental geodetic satellite) which was launched on August 13,
1986, by NASDA. The EGS optical tracking experiment process and an
outline of the Radio Research Laboratory (RRL) optical ground <----
station are discussed. A star tracking technique for optical
equipment calibration and satellite tracking technique for orbit
prediction improvement are also described. The accuracy of EGS
tracking data obtained by RRL at the request of NASDA is also
discussed. In addition, it is briefly demonstrated that the
position of the Japanese amateur satellite (JAS-1) which was
launched with the EGS, was accurately determined by means of a <----
satellite tracking video. It is clear from this experiment that <----
optical observation data (i.e., satellite direction data) are very <----
useful for satellite orbit determination during initial launch <----
stages. Furthermore, the results confirm the effectivenes of these <----
two satellite optical tracking techniques. <----
MU radar measurements of orbital debris
SATO, TORU; KAYAMA, HIDETOSHI; FURUSAWA, AKIRA; KIMURA, IWANE
(Kyoto University, Japan)
AIAA, NASA, and DOD, Orbital Debris Conference: Technical Issues and
Future Directions, Baltimore, MD, Apr. 16-19, 1990. 10 p.
RPN: AIAA PAPER 90-1343
Distributions of orbital debris versus height and scattering cross
section are determined from a series of observations made with a high-
power VHF Doppler radar (MU radar) of Japan. An automated data
processing algorithm has been developed to discriminate echoes of
orbiting objects from those of undesired signals such as meteor trail
echoes or lightning atmospherics. Although the results are preliminary,
they showed good agreement with those from NORAD tracking radar <----
observations using a much higher frequency. It is found that the <----
collision frequency of a Space Station of 1 km x 1 km size at an
altitude of 500 km with orbiting debris is expected to be as high as
once per two years.
Monitoring of the MU radar antenna pattern by Satellite Ohzora (EXOS-C)
SATO, T.; INOOKA, Y.; FUKAO, S. (Kyoto Univ., Japan); KATO, S.
Kyoto Univ., Uji (Japan). Radio Atmospheric Science Center.
In International Council of Scientific Unions, Middle Atmosphere Program.
Handbook for MAP, Vol. 20 5 p
Publication Date: Jun. 1986
As the first attempt among MST (mesosphere stratosphere
troposphere) type radars, the MU (middle and upper atmosphere) radar
features an active phased array system. Unlike the conventional large
VHF radars, in which output power of a large vacuum tube is distributed
to individual antenna elements, each of 475 solid state power amplifier
feeds each antenna element. This system configuration enables very fast
beam steering as well as various flexible operations by dividing the
antenna into independent subarrays, because phase shift and signal
division/combination are performed at a low signal level using
electronic devices under control of a computer network. The antenna
beam can be switched within 10 microsec to any direction within the
zenith angle of 30 deg. Since a precise phase alignment of each element
is crucial to realize the excellent performance of this system, careful
calibration of the output phase of each power amplifier and antenna
element was carried out. Among various aircraft which may be used for
this purpose artificial satellites have an advantage of being able to
make a long term monitoring with the same system. An antenna pattern
monitoring system for the MU radar was developed using the scientific
satellite OHZORA (EXOS-C). A receiver named MUM (MU radar antenna
Monitor) on board the satellite measures a CW signal of 100 to 400
watts transmitted from the MU radar. The principle of the measurement
and results are discussed.
Equatorial radar system
FUKAO, SHOICHIRO; TSUDA, TOSHITAKA; SATO, TORU; KATO, SUSUMU
(Kyoto University, Uji, Japan)
(COSPAR, IAGA, SCOSTEP, et al., Plenary Meeting, 27th,
Workshops and Symposium on the Earth's Middle Atmosphere,
Espoo, Finland, July 18-29, 1988) Advances in Space Research
(ISSN 0273-1177), vol. 10, no. 10, 1990, p. 151-154.
A large clear air radar with the sensitivity of an incoherent
scatter radar for observing the whole equatorial atmosphere up to 1000
km altitude is now being designed in Japan. The radar will be built in
Pontianak, West Kalimantan, Indonesia (0.03 deg N, 109.29 deg E). The
system is a 47-MHz monostatic Doppler radar with an active phased array
configuration similar to that of the MU radar in Japan, which has been
in successful operation since 1983. It will have a PA product of about
3 x 10 to the 9th W sq m (P = average transmitter power, A = effective
antenna aperture) with a sensitivity of approximately 10 times that of
the MU radar. This system configuration enables pulse-to-pulse beam
steering within 20 deg from the zenith. As is the case of the MU radar,
a variety of operations will be made feasible under the supervision of
the radar controller. A brief description of the system configuration
is presented.
|
5878 | From: dgr@ENG.Vitalink.COM (Daniel Robinson)
Subject: Re: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption
Nntp-Posting-Host: rodin.eng.vitalink.com
Organization: Vitalink Communications / Network Systems Corp., Fremont, CA
Distribution: na
Lines: 20
In article <1993Apr19.130132.12650@afterlife.ncsc.mil> rlward1@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Robert Ward) writes:
+In article <bontchev.734981805@fbihh> bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de writes:
+>and since the US constitutions guarantees the right to every American
+>to bear arms, why is not every American entitled, as a matter of
+
+Have you read the applicable part of the Constitution and interpreted it IN
+CONTEXT? If not, please do so before posting this misinterpretation again.
+It refers to the right of the people to organize a militia, not for individuals
+to carry handguns, grenades, and assault rifles.
Hmmm, this could become a flame war very quickly. The text is "...well
regulated militia..." When that amendment was written and approved,
"regulated" meand "armed". Remember all of those Westerns where bounty
hunters were called "regulators"? This is now an archaic usage of the
word, but the original intent of the amendment was about weapons, not
control.
My $0.02.
Dan Robinson
|
5879 | From: joec@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com ( Joe Cipale)
Subject: Re: RED SOX LEAD 8-0 AFTER 2!!!!!!
Organization: Cypress Semi, Beaverton OR
Lines: 46
In article <C56zrA.75n@ulowell.ulowell.edu> stwombly@cs.ulowell.edu (Steve Twombly) writes:
>The Boston Red Sox lead the KC Royals 8-0 after 2 innings.
>
>The Sox are the only undefeated team in the AL East after 4 days.
>
>GO JUMP IN THE LAKE YOU NON-BELIEVERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>Steve
>
As I have read this net the last few days, I am continually amazed at the
pronouncements of baseball prowess by many individuals. Especially when it
comes down to saying that the Bosox haven't a prayer. As a long time Red Sox
fan, I will simply say: The Impossible Dream Year - 1967 for those of you
with short memories. short lives, or both.
To be a Red Sox fan is to continually be the subject of abuse and criticism
from those who only follow 'the hot team'. This statement is supported based
on the increased number of 'Brave Woofers' out on the net. A true fan of a
team, any team, will follow that team through the good years as well as the lean
years, and be amply rewarded when the time is right.
Yeah, so what if Buckner let a roller go through his legs in `86. Who cares if
Clemens told Cooley to go piss up a rope and promptly earned a quick shower. The
fact is, they were one of the best teams in the league those years and the fans
supported them. Now that it appears that they are on lean times, the number of
detracters come from all over. So what! Let them play and we will see what
happens come September. The Red Sox may not be that good, but they are certainly
not that bad, either and they do have a chance to win the World Series, after all,
remember the `69 Mets? Who would have given them a chance to even make it that
far, let alone beat Baltimore.
Let's face it, Baseball is a wonderful game and is far more unpredictable than Football
and Basketball. Because of this, one can never say with absolute certainity what
the outcome will be over the course of 162 games.
===============================================================================
| joec@godot.cyprs.rain.com |WARNING: Elvis impersonating can be hazardous|
| joec@ursula.ee.pdx.edu | to your health -- it sure won't help|
| | your reputation. |
+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| I bike, therefore I am! | Go Red Sox! Go Celtics! |
| | Go Seahawks! Go Sonics! |
===============================================================================
|
5880 | From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Subject: HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Lines: 88
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
Keywords: HST
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Ed Campion
Headquarters, Washington, D.C. April 23, 1993
(Phone: 202/358-1780)
Kyle Herring
Johnson Space Center, Houston
(Phone: 713/483-5111)
RELEASE: 93-76
HUBBLE TELESCOPE SERVICING MISSION SCHEDULED FOR ELEVEN DAYS
The December flight of Endeavour on Space Shuttle mission STS-61 to
service the Hubble Space Telescope (HST) has been scheduled as an 11 day
mission designed to accommodate a record five spacewalks with the capability
for an additional two, if needed.
The decision to schedule five extravehicular activities, or EVAs, was
reached following extensive evaluations of underwater training, maneuver times
required using the Shuttle's robot arm based on software simulations and actual
EVA tasks on previous missions.
"Basically what we've done by going to five EVAs rather than three is
to repackage our margin so that we have the capability to respond to the
dynamics, or unknowns, of spacewalks," Mission Director Randy Brinkley said.
"It improves the probabilities for mission success while providing added
flexibility and adaptability for reacting to real-time situations."
In laying out the specific tasks to be completed on each of the
spacewalks, officials have determined that changing out the gyros, solar arrays
and the Wide Field/Planetary Camera (WF/PC) and installing the Corrective
Optics Space Telescope Axial Replacement (COSTAR) are priority objectives
during the mission.
"When we looked at accomplishing all of the tasks, highest through
lowest priority, and recognizing that the major tasks -- gyros, solar arrays,
WF/PC and COSTAR -- would consume most of the time set aside for each
spacewalk, five EVAs were deemed appropriate," said Milt Heflin, Lead Flight
Director for the mission.
While the five spacewalks will be unprecedented, the use of two
alternating spacewalk teams will alleviate placing more stress on the crew than
previous missions requiring two, three or four EVAs.
"We have paid close attention to lessons learned during previous
spacewalks and factored these into our timeline estimates for five EVAs,"
Heflin said. "In planning for all Space Shuttle missions, it is necessary to
formulate a work schedule that represents as realistic a timeline as possible
to accomplish the mission objectives."
Planning currently calls for at least five water tank training sessions
that include support from the Mission Control Center, called joint integrated
simulations, lasting between 10 and 36 hours. In addition, many stand alone
underwater training "runs" will practice individual tasks in each spacewalk.
Various refinements to the specific tasks on each spacewalk will be
made based on actual training experience during the months prior to the
mission. Also, lessons learned from other spacewalks leading up to the flight
will be valuable in assisting the STS-61 crew in its training techniques.
Endeavour's June flight and Discovery's July mission both will include
spacewalks to evaluate some of the unique tools to be used on the HST mission.
The evaluations will help in better understanding the differences between the
actual weightlessness of space and the ground training in the water tanks at
the Johnson Space Center, Houston, and the Marshall Space Flight Center,
Huntsville, Ala.
Also, the inflight spacewalking experiences will assist in gaining
further insight into the time required for the various tasks and expand the
experience levels among the astronaut corps, the flight controllers and
trainers.
Designed to be serviced by a Space Shuttle crew, Hubble was built with
grapple fixtures and handholds to assist in the capture and repair procedures.
The telescope was launched aboard Discovery in April 1990. At that
time the NASA mixed fleet manifest showed the first revisit mission to HST in
1993 to change out science instruments and make any repairs that may have
become necessary.
- end -
___ _____ ___
/_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
| | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab |
___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | The aweto from New Zealand
/___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | is part caterpillar and
|_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | part vegetable.
|
5881 | From: (Sean Garrison)
Subject: Re: WHAT'S WITH ALL THESE SCORES?
Nntp-Posting-Host: berkeley-kstar-node.net.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University
Lines: 23
In article <1qplh7$e2g@agate.berkeley.edu>, jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu
(Joseph Hernandez) wrote:
> If people on USENET really don't want to see the postings I do to
> rec.sport.baseball on a daily basis, please just let me know. If the response
> is overwhelming against the posts, I won't do it anymore.
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Joseph Hernandez
Mr. Hernandez Ñ-
I apologize for the misunderstanding. I explained that I know that it
is essential for some fans to get scores here, for they cannot get them
elsewhere. I have no problem with what you do, posting scores AFTER the
games have been completed. However, like I said earlier, I don't think it
is a necessity to post scores during the middle of games, like some others
have come to practice.
- Sean
|
5882 | Subject: Re: Don't more innocents die without the death penalty?
From: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard)
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
Nntp-Posting-Host: skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Lines: 21
In article <chrisb.734068710@bAARNie>, chrisb@tafe.sa.edu.au (Chris BELL) writes...
> killing is wrong
> if you kill we will punish you
> our punishment will be to kill you.
>
>Seems to be lacking in consistency.
Not any more so than
holding people against their will is wrong
if you hold people against their will we will punish you
our punishment will be to hold you against your will
Is there any punishment which isn't something which, if done by a private
person to another private person for no apparent reason, would lead to
punishment? (Fines, I suppose.)
Jim Lippard Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Dept. of Philosophy Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721
|
5883 | From: umfu0009@ccu.umanitoba.ca (J. M. K. Fu)
Subject: Re: Tie Breaker....(Isles and Devils)
Nntp-Posting-Host: data.cc.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 21
In <lrw509f@rpi.edu> wangr@vccsouth22.its.rpi.edu ( Rex Wang ) writes:
> Are people here stupid or what??? It is a tie breaker, of cause they
>have to have the same record. How can people be sooooo stuppid to put win as
>first in the list for tie breaker??? If it is a tie breaker, how can there be
>different record???? Man, I thought people in this net are good with hockey.
>I might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same points
>with different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people actually put
>win as first in a tie breaker......
Why not? I believe both the Devils and Islanders got 87 points.
Say for example, another team had this record : 20-37-47;
they had 20*2+47*1+37*0=87 which is the same as their points total.
(The Islanders' and Devils' records are both 40-37-7.
It is simple arithmetics and involve no Calculus.
John.
(a computer science graduate who pretends to be a mathematican)
|
5884 | From: brian@meaddata.com (Brian Curran)
Subject: TIGER STADIUM GIF?
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Lines: 9
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: taurus.meaddata.com
Does anybody have a GIF of the Tiger Stadium seating chart? Thanks!
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Curran Mead Data Central brian@meaddata.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I didn't think I should've been asked to catch
when the temperature was below my age."
- Carlton Fisk, Chicago White Sox catcher,
on playing during a 40-degree April ball game
|
5885 | From: johnsd2@rpi.edu (Dan Johnson)
Subject: Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart..."
Reply-To: johnsd2@rpi.edu
Organization: not Sun Microsystems
Lines: 45
In article 29201@athos.rutgers.edu, seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna (S.M.) Watson) writes:
>In article <Apr.14.03.07.38.1993.5420@athos.rutgers.edu> johnsd2@rpi.edu writes:
>>In article 28388@athos.rutgers.edu, jayne@mmalt.guild.org (Jayne Kulikauskas) writes:
>>
>>> This is why the most effective
>>>substance-abuse recovery programs involve meeting peoples' spiritual
>>>needs.
>>
>>You might want to provide some evidence next time you make a claim
>>like this.
>>
>In 12-step programs (like Alcoholics Anonymous), one of the steps
>involves acknowleding a "higher power". AA and other 12-step abuse-
>recovery programs are acknowledged as being among the most effective.
[deletia- and so on]
I seem to have been rather unclear.
What I was asking is this:
Please show me that the most effective substance-absure recovery
programs involve meetinsg peoples' spiritual needs, rather than
merely attempting to fill peoples' spiritual needs as percieved
by the people, A.A, S.R.C. regulars, or snoopy. This will probably
involve defining "spritual needs" (is it not that clear) and
showing that such things exist and how they can be filled.
Annother tack you might take is to say that "fulfilling spiritual
needs" means "acknowledging a "higher power" of some sort, then
show that systems that do require this, work better than otherwise
identical systems that do not. A correlation here would help you,
but as you point out this might just be demonstrating swapping
one crutch for annother. (however, I do feel that religion is
usually a better crutch than alchohol, as it is not usually
poisonous! :) )
I hope with that clarification, my question will be answerable. I actually
did know about the 12 step program, its the question of what it does,
rather than what it tries to do, that makes a difference to me.
---
- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0
These opinions probably show what I know.
|
5886 | From: dgempey@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (David Gordon Empey)
Subject: Re: PLANETS STILL: IMAGES ORBIT BY ETHER TWIST
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
Lines: 22
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu
In <1993Apr23.165459.3323@coe.montana.edu> uphrrmk@gemini.oscs.montana.edu (Jack Coyote) writes:
>In sci.astro, dmcaloon@tuba.calpoly.edu (David McAloon) writes:
>[ a nearly perfect parody -- needed more random CAPS]
>Thanks for the chuckle. (I loved the bit about relevance to people starving
>in Somalia!)
>To those who've taken this seriously, READ THE NAME! (aloud)
Well, I thought it must have been a joke, but I don't get the
joke in the name. Read it aloud? David MACaloon. David MacALLoon.
David macalOON. I don't geddit.
-Dave Empey (speaking for himself)
>--
>Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week. Enjoy the buffet!
|
5887 | From: smf7s@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Stephen M. Friedman)
Subject: Wizard OZ-9600 pen-based organizer & PC link for sale
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: na
Lines: 39
FOR SALE: Pen-based electronic organizer --
Brand-new Sharp Wizard OZ-9600 (with PC link software and cable)
-15 ounces, measures 7"x4"x1" (fits in most pockets)
-256k RAM, 125k available to user
-pen/touch-screen input for pointing and drawing
-keyboard big enough to touch-type on
-320x240 screen
-windows/pop-up menus
-excellent scheduler with alarms
-3 telephone directories
-3 user-configurable databases
-full word-processor with formatting
-drawing utility
-outliner
-to-do list
-calculator
-clock/calendar
-terminal emulatorw/ dialing directory
-directory/filing system
-serial port/infrared port/IC card slot
-uses 4 AAA batteries (about 3 months of daily use)
-All manuals
Organizer Link II
-software and cable for exchanging data between Wizard and a PC
$480 or best offer for both. I'll pay shipping.
Steven M Friedman
Horizon Institute for Policy Solutions
Mail path: smf7s@virginia.BITNET
Voice path: (804) 295 0235
|
5888 | From: jimd@psg.com (Jim Dorman)
Subject: Spring Cleaning Sale!
Organization: Pacific Systems Group, Portland Oregon US
Distribution: na
Lines: 71
Time once again to clean out the ol' closet. Some stuff is up for offers, some
isn't. Please read carefully.
In the MAKE OFFER department:
WordPerfect 5.0, upgrade copy. Includes all disks and all upgrade
manuals. Best offer.
Balance of Power, 1992 edition, for the Amiga. With manual and reg.
card. Best offer.
In the FOR SALE department:
Technics model 715 auto-reverse open-reel STEREO tape deck. Because
it's auto-reverse, this deck records onto tape just like a cassette
deck does, so it's not very good for splice-type editing. However,
I have used it effectively in "tape studio" applications for mastering,
and it works great. 3.75 and 7.5 ips speeds, supports up to 7" reels.
Dual lighted VU meters with record indicators. Full auto-reverse
capable (and the mechanism works, too!). Adjustable sound on sound,
and socket for remote control (I don't know where you'd find one, but
they used to make 'em), plus a 110VAC unswitched outlet. This unit
is in excellent condition and I have had it rebuilt once since I got
it--works perfectly.
Price: $225.00 or best offer, or possible trade (see below).
Panasonic KX-P1624 printer. 24-pin with 360x360dpi resolution in both
text and graphics modes. Warranty cards, manuals, all the usual stuff
you expect when buying like-new merchandise. I'm selling it because I
now have a better printer. This is the wide carriage version of the
KX-P1124, by the way. Test prints are available upon request.
Price: $250.00 o.b.o. or trade.
Excalibur custom pool cue. 19 oz., 13 mm, brass joint, Irish linen
wrap, could use a new tip but will hold up for a while. I've got too
many cues as it is, and don't need this one. Hits nicely, is very
straight and in excellent condition.
Price: $125.00 o.b.o. or trade. Imperial hard case (1 butt/1 shaft)
available for an additional $40.00.
TRADES: I need the following things, and I have no cash of my own right now,
so if you want to trade, it needs to be straight-across. The list:
Amiga ROM upgrade to at LEAST 2.04, preferably 2.1+, with appropriate
DOS and Workbench.
1 meg Agnus chip for the Amiga.
Amiga hard drive and controller (preferably SCSI).
IBM-compatible hard drive (and controller if not MFM). This one's
touchy, as I have a full-height and don't have room for more unless
I swap out--needs to be above 100M, and I will consider trading a
good ST-4096 in the deal.
Intel 9600EX or 14.4EX or similar EXTERNAL high-speed modem.
This is not a complete list, but it's close. If you've got something way off
the track of this list, it's probably not going to interest me at this point.
Email responses, please.
|
5889 | From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Catalog of Hard-to-Find PC Enhancements (Repost)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: usa
Lines: 46
In article <C5JI92.KFu@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil> rpwhite@cs.nps.navy.mil (rpwhite) writes:
>Andy Freeman writes:
>>Joe Doll writes:
>)>> "The Catalog of Personal Computing Tools for Engineers and Scien-
>)>> tists" lists hardware cards and application software packages for
>)>> PC/XT/AT/PS/2 class machines. Focus is on engineering and scien-
>)>> tific applications of PCs, such as data acquisition/control,
>)>> design automation, and data analysis and presentation.
>
>)>> If you would like a free copy, reply with your (U. S. Postal)
>)>> mailing address.
>>
>>Don't bother - it never comes. It's a cheap trick for building a
>>mailing list to sell if my junk mail flow is any indication.
>
>I have a copy of this catalog in front of me as I write this.
>It does have tons of qool stuff in it.
That's one. Any others?
>My impression is that they try not to send it out to "browsers".
Then they should have used a different advert.
>It appears that if your not a buyer or an engineer they do not want to
>waste a catalog on you.
I'm both. I've made some $4k worth of PC products purchasing
decisions for one company I'm affiliated with in the past 6 months
alone. (In a delicious bit of irony, an interesting fraction went to
suppliers that I suspect got my mailing address from these people.)
More is in the pipeline right now.
If they wanted to discuss these sorts of things, upfront is the
way to do it.
>When you get a catalog there's a "VIP Code" you
And who issues that "VIP Code"? (That policy implementation in the
running for this week's "silly twit" award.) BTW - It turns out that
I have several VIP codes. Here's the one I'm using for these sorts of
things: "6". (If you want one, send me mail and I'll put you in touch
with the folks who do the application interview; if you qualify....)
-andy
--
|
5890 | From: bm155@cleveland.freenet.edu (csthomas@gizmonic.UUCP)
Subject: xwd->gif conversions
Reply-To: bm155@cleveland.freenet.edu (shane thomas)
Distribution: na
Organization: The Gizmonic Institute
Lines: 14
Hello,
Anyone know of any source code I can get to either create window
dumps in GIF format, or convert an XWD (x window dump) file
into a GIF? Really could be any format I can manipulate in DOS,
i.e. PCX, BMP, etc.
later,
shane
---
bm155@cleveland.freenet.edu {uucp:rutgers!devon!gizmonic!csthomas}
"God bless those Pagans..." - H. Simpson
|
5891 | From: ab4z@Virginia.EDU ("Andi Beyer")
Subject: Re: Israel's Expansion II
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 23
bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes:
>
> The comparison of the Palestinian situation with the Holocaust
> is insulting and completely false. Any person making such a rude
> and false comparison is either ignorant of the Holocaust, or also
> ignorant of the situation in the mideast, or is an anti-semite.
>
> To compare a complicated political situation with the genocide
> of 6,000,000 Jews is racist in and of itself.
>
First of all I never said the Holocaust. I said before the
Holocaust. I'm not ignorant of the Holocaust and know more
about Nazi Germany than most people (maybe including you).
What I resent is ignorant statements that call people
names when they disagree with your position. Opposing the
atrocities commited by the Israeli governement hardly qualifies
as anti-semitism. If you think name calling is a valid form of
argument in intellectual circles, you need to get out more
often.
I don't think the suffering of some Jews during WWII
justifies the crimes commited by the Israeli government. Any
attempt to call Civil liberterians like myself anti-semetic is
not appreciated.
|
5892 | From: eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf)
Subject: Re: was: Go Hezbollah!!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 44
amehdi@src.honeywell.com (Hossien Amehdi) writes:
>In article <C5HuBA.CJo@news.cso.uiuc.edu> eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes:
>>amehdi@src.honeywell.com (Hossien Amehdi) writes:
>>
>>>You know when Israelis F16 (thanks to General Dynamics) fly high in the sky
>>>and bomb the hell out of some village in Lebanon, where civilians including
>>>babies and eldery getting killed, is that plain murder or what?
>>
>>If you Arabs wouldn't position guerilla bases in refugee camps, artillery
>>batteries atop apartment buildings, and munitions dumps in hospitals, maybe
>>civilians wouldn't get killed. Kinda like Saddam Hussein putting civilians
>>in a military bunker.
>>
>>Ed.
>Who is the you Arabs here. Since you are replying to my article you
>are assuming that I am an Arab. Well, I'm not an Arab, but I think you
>are brain is full of shit if you really believe what you said. The
>bombardment of civilian and none civilian areas in Lebanon by Israel is
>very consistent with its policy of intimidation. That is the only
>policy that has been practiced by the so called only democracy in
>the middle east!
What the hell do you know about Israeli policy? What gives you the fiat
to look into the minds of Israeli generals? Has this 'policy of intimidation'
been published somewhere? For your information, the actions taken by Arabs,
specifically the PLO, were not uncommon in the Lebanon Campaign of 1982. My
brain is full of shit? At least I don't look into the minds of others and
make Israeli policy for them!
>I was merley pointing out that the other side is also suffering.
>Like I said, I'm not an Arab but if I was, say a Lebanese, you bet
>I would defende my homeland against any invader by any means.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We all suffer. It's too bad that civilians get killed but
I will blame their Arab leaders who put them in positions of danger before I
will blame the Israelis. Just like Palestinians who send their children into
warzones to throw rocks at armed Israeli soldiers. What irresponsible parents!
As Golda Meir said, peace will only come when the Arabs start loving their
children more than they hate the Jews.
Ed.
|
5893 | From: jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: Re: No-Haggle Deals...Save $$???
Nntp-Posting-Host: wind.bellcore.com
Reply-To: jchen@ctt.bellcore.com
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Distribution: usa
Lines: 2
A local dealer is advertising "No negotiation necessary!"
Make you wonder...
|
5894 | From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Re: Killer
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Lines: 95
In article <1993Apr21.032746.10820@doug.cae.wisc.edu> yamen@cae.wisc.edu
(Soner Yamen) responded to article <1r20kr$m9q@nic.umass.edu> BURAK@UCSVAX.
UCS.UMASS.EDU (AFS) who wrote:
[AFS] Just a quick comment::
[AFS]
[AFS] Armenians killed Turks------Turks killed Armenians.
[AFS]
[AFS] Simple as that. Can anybody deny these facts?
Jews killed Germans in WWII -- Germans killed Jews in WWII, BUT there was
quite a difference in these two statements, regardless of what Nazi
revisionists say!
[SY] My grand parents were living partly in todays Armenia and partly in
[SY] todays Georgia. There were villages, Kurd/Turk (different Turkic groups)
[SY] Georgian (muslim/christian) Armenian and Farsi... Very near to eachother.
[SY] The people living there were aware of their differences. They were
[SY] different people. For example, my grandfather would not have been happy
[SY] if his doughter had willed to marry an Armenian guy. But that did not
[SY] mean that they were willing to kill eachother. No! They were neighbors.
OK.
[SY] Armenians killed Turks. Which Armenians? Their neoghbors? As far as my
[SY] grandparents are concerned, the Armenians attacked first but these
[SY] Armenians were not their neighbors. They came from other places. Maybe
[SY] first they had a training at some place. They were taught to kill people,
[SY] to hate Turks/Kurds? It seems so...
There is certainly a difference between the planned extermination of the
Armenians of eastern Turkey beginning in 1915, with that of the Armeno-
Georgian conflicts of late 1918! The argument is not whether Armenians ever
killed in their collective existence, but rather the wholesale destruction of
Anatolian Armenians under orders of the Turkish government. An Armenian-
Georgian dispute over the disposition of Akhalkalak, Lori, and Pambak after
the Turkish Third Army evacuated the region, cannot be equated with the
extermination of Anatolian Armenians. Many Armenians and Georgians died
in this area in the scramble to re-occupy these lands and the lack of
preparation for the winter months. This is not the same as the Turkish
genocide of the Armenians nearly four years earlier, hundreds of kilometers
away!
[SY] Anyway, but after they killed/raped/... Turks and other muslim people
[SY] around, people assumed that 'Armenians killed us, raped our women',
[SY] not a particular group of people trained in some camps, maybe backed
[SY] by some powerful states... After that step, you cannot explain these
[SY] people not to hate all Armenians.
I don't follow, perhaps the next paragraph will shed some light.
[SY] So what am I trying to point out? First, at least for that region,
[SY] you cannot blame Turks/Kurds etc since it was a self defense situation.
[SY] Most of the Armenians, I think, are not to blame either. But since some
[SY] people started that fire, it is not easy to undo it. There are facts.
[SY] People cannot trust eachother easily. It is very difficult to establish
[SY] a good relation based on mutual respect and trust between nations with
[SY] different ethnic/cultural/religious backgrounds but it is unfortunately
[SY] very easy to start a fire!
Again, the fighting between Armenians and Georgians in 1918/19 had little to
do with the destruction of the Armenians in Turkey. It is interesting that
the Georgian leaders of the Transcaucasian Federation (Armenia, Azerbaijan,
and Georgia) made special deals with Turkish generals not to pass through
Tiflis on their way to Baku, in return for Georgians not helping the Armenians
militarily. Of course, as Turkish troops marched across what was left of
Caucasian Armenia, many Armenians went north and such population movement
caused problems with the locals. This is in no comparison with events 4 years
earlier in eastern Anatolia. My father's mother's family escaped Cemiskezek ->
Erzinka -> Erzerum -> Nakhitchevan -> Tiflis -> Constantinople ->
Massachusetts.
[SY] My grandparents were *not* bloodthirsty people. We did not experience
[SY] what they had to endure... They had to leave their lands, there were
[SY] ladies, old ladies, all of her children killed while she forced to
[SY] witness! Young women put dirt at their face to make themselves
[SY] unattractive! I don't want to go into any graphic detail.
My grandmother's brother was forced to dress up as a Kurdish women, and paste
potato skins on his face to look ugly. The Turks would kill any Armenian
young man on sight in Dersim. Because their family was rather influential,
local Kurds helped them escape before it was too late. This is why I am alive
today.
[SY] You may think that my sources are biased. They were biased in some sense.
[SY] They experienced their own pain, of course. That is the way it is. But
[SY] as I said they were living in peace with their neighbors before. Why
[SY] should they become enemies?
--
David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org | "How do we explain Turkish troops on
S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies | the Armenian border, when we can't
P.O. Box 382761 | even explain 1915?"
Cambridge, MA 02238 | Turkish MP, March 1992
|
5895 | From: ndallen@r-node.hub.org (Nigel Allen)
Subject: WACO: Clinton press conference, part 2
Organization: R-node Public Access Unix - 1 416 249 5366
Lines: 99
Here is a press release from the White House.
President Clinton's Remarks On Waco With Q/A
To: National Desk
Contact: White House Office of the Press Secretary, 202-456-2100
WASHINGTON, April 20 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Following are
remarks by President Clinton in a question and answer session
with the press (Part 2 of 2):
Go ahead, Sarah.
Q There are two questions I want to ask you. The
first is, I think that they knew very well that the children did not
have gas masks while the adults did, so the children had no chance
because this gas was very -- she said it was not lethal, but it was
very dangerous to the children and they could not have survived
without gas masks. And on February 28th -- let's go back -- didn't
those people have a right to practice their religion?
THE PRESIDENT: They were not just practicing their
religion, they were -- the Treasury Department believed that they had
violated federal laws, any number of them.
Q What federal laws --
THE PRESIDENT: Let me go back and answer -- I can't
answer the question about the gas masks, except to tell you that the
whole purpose of using the tear gas was that it had been tested; they
were convinced that it wouldn't kill either a child or an adult but
it would force anybody that breathed it to run outside. And one of
the things that I've heard -- I don't want to get into the details of
this because I don't know -- but one of the things that they were
speculating about today was that the wind was blowing so fast that
the windows might have been opened and some of the gas might have
escaped and that may be why it didn't have the desired effect.
They also knew, Sarah, that there was an underground
compound -- a bus buried underground where the children could be
sent. And they were -- I think they were hoping very much that if
the children were not released immediately outside that the humane
thing would be done and that the children would be sent someplace
where they could be protected.
In terms of the gas masks themselves, I learned
yesterday -- I did not ask this fact question before -- that the gas
was supposed to stay active in the compound longer than the gas masks
themselves were to work. So that it was thought that even if they
all had gas masks, that eventually the gas would force them out in a
nonviolent, nonshooting circumstance.
MS. MYERS: Last question.
Q Mr. President, why are you still saying that --
Q Could you tell us whether or not you ever asked
Janet Reno about the possibility of a mass suicide? And when you
learned about the actual fire and explosion what went through your
mind during those horrendous moments?
THE PRESIDENT: What I asked Janet Reno is if they had
considered all the worse things that could happen. And she said --
and, of course, the whole issue of suicide had been raised in the
public -- he had -- that had been debated anyway. And she said that
the people who were most knowledgeable about these kinds of issues
concluded that there was no greater risk of that now than there would
be tomorrow or the next day or the day after that or at anytime in
the future. That was the judgment they made. Whether they were
right or wrong, of course, we will never know.
What happened when I saw the fire, when I saw the
building burning? I was sick. I felt terrible. And my immediate
concern was whether the children had gotten out and whether they were
escaping or whether they were inside, trying to burn themselves up.
That's the first thing I wanted to know.
Thank you.
Q Mr. President, why are you still saying it was a
Janet Reno decision? Isn't it, in the end, your decision?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, what I'm saying is that I didn't
have a four- or five-hour, detailed briefing from the FBI. I didn't
go over every strategic part of it. It is a decision for which I
take responsibility. I'm the President of the United States and I
signed off on the general decision and giving her the authority to
make the last call. When I talked to her on Sunday, some time had
elapsed. She might have made a decision to change her mind. I said,
if you decide to go forward with this tomorrow, I will support you.
And I do support her.
She is not ultimately responsible to the American
people; I am. But I think she has conducted her duties in an
appropriate fashion and she has dealt with this situation I think as
well as she could have.
Thank you. (Applause.)
-30-
|
5896 | From: Rich.Rubel@launchpad.unc.edu (Rich Rubel)
Subject: Shawnee-on-Delaware (Poconos, PA) timeshare week for sale
Nntp-Posting-Host: lambada.oit.unc.edu
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: usa
Lines: 15
Second week of January (prime ski season at one of the largest Poconos ski
areas). Just north of Allentown.
Condo sleeps 6-8 depending on how friendly you all are. Has hot tub,
deck. Easy access to parking lot and shuttle to slopes (condo is a few
miles from the slopes).
Cost: $6000 OBRO, price based on what we paid for it (used, also) and
current market.
[RICHR]
--
The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
|
5897 | From: dil.admin@mhs.unc.edu (Dave Laudicina)
Subject: Re: RE: Win NT - what is it???
Nntp-Posting-Host: dil.adp.unc.edu
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Lines: 20
>
>I have little info on Chicago so I cant make a comparison. Is it in Beta? Is
>there anyone out there who has tested both and cares to make a comparison?
>Just my $0.02
>
>/ALN
Chicago from what I have read is projected to run in 4M on 386 and higher.
It is definitely aimed at the desktop.
It is rumored to offer preemptive multitasking,
multithreading but will not offer multiprocessing. Is 32 bit and no reliance
on DOS. It is rumored to have an integrated file and program manager.
DOS 7 is rumored to be similar to Chicago but without the GUI. Is also
a step towards CAIRO (the next generation OS) which is rumored to be
object oriented.
I wonder where Windows 4.0 fits here is it a stepping stone to Chicago?
Hope this helps.
Thx Dave L
|
5898 | From: denning@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Subject: REVISED TECHNICAL SUMMARY OF CLIPPER CHIP
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University
Lines: 167
Here is a revised version of my summary which corrects some errors
and provides some additional information and explanation.
THE CLIPPER CHIP: A TECHNICAL SUMMARY
Dorothy Denning
Revised, April 21, 1993
INTRODUCTION
On April 16, the President announced a new initiative that will bring
together the Federal Government and industry in a voluntary program
to provide secure communications while meeting the legitimate needs of
law enforcement. At the heart of the plan is a new tamper-proof encryption
chip called the "Clipper Chip" together with a split-key approach to
escrowing keys. Two escrow agencies are used, and the key parts from
both are needed to reconstruct a key.
CHIP CONTENTS
The Clipper Chip contains a classified single-key 64-bit block
encryption algorithm called "Skipjack." The algorithm uses 80 bit keys
(compared with 56 for the DES) and has 32 rounds of scrambling
(compared with 16 for the DES). It supports all 4 DES modes of
operation. The algorithm takes 32 clock ticks, and in Electronic
Codebook (ECB) mode runs at 12 Mbits per second.
Each chip includes the following components:
the Skipjack encryption algorithm
F, an 80-bit family key that is common to all chips
N, a 30-bit serial number (this length is subject to change)
U, an 80-bit secret key that unlocks all messages encrypted with the chip
The chips are programmed by Mykotronx, Inc., which calls them the
"MYK-78." The silicon is supplied by VLSI Technology Inc. They are
implemented in 1 micron technology and will initially sell for about
$30 each in quantities of 10,000 or more. The price should drop as the
technology is shrunk to .8 micron.
ENCRYPTING WITH THE CHIP
To see how the chip is used, imagine that it is embedded in the AT&T
telephone security device (as it will be). Suppose I call someone and
we both have such a device. After pushing a button to start a secure
conversation, my security device will negotiate an 80-bit session key K
with the device at the other end. This key negotiation takes place
without the Clipper Chip. In general, any method of key exchange can
be used such as the Diffie-Hellman public-key distribution method.
Once the session key K is established, the Clipper Chip is used to
encrypt the conversation or message stream M (digitized voice). The
telephone security device feeds K and M into the chip to produce two
values:
E[M; K], the encrypted message stream, and
E[E[K; U] + N; F], a law enforcement field ,
which are transmitted over the telephone line. The law enforcement
field thus contains the session key K encrypted under the unit key U
concatenated with the serial number N, all encrypted under the family
key F. The law enforcement field is decrypted by law enforcement after
an authorized wiretap has been installed.
The ciphertext E[M; K] is decrypted by the receiver's device using the
session key:
D[E[M; K]; K] = M .
CHIP PROGRAMMING AND ESCROW
All Clipper Chips are programmed inside a SCIF (Secure Compartmented
Information Facility), which is essentially a vault. The SCIF contains
a laptop computer and equipment to program the chips. About 300 chips
are programmed during a single session. The SCIF is located at
Mykotronx.
At the beginning of a session, a trusted agent from each of the two key
escrow agencies enters the vault. Agent 1 enters a secret, random
80-bit value S1 into the laptop and agent 2 enters a secret, random
80-bit value S2. These random values serve as seeds to generate unit
keys for a sequence of serial numbers. Thus, the unit keys are a
function of 160 secret, random bits, where each agent knows only 80.
To generate the unit key for a serial number N, the 30-bit value N is
first padded with a fixed 34-bit block to produce a 64-bit block N1.
S1 and S2 are then used as keys to triple-encrypt N1, producing a
64-bit block R1:
R1 = E[D[E[N1; S1]; S2]; S1] .
Similarly, N is padded with two other 34-bit blocks to produce N2 and
N3, and two additional 64-bit blocks R2 and R3 are computed:
R2 = E[D[E[N2; S1]; S2]; S1]
R3 = E[D[E[N3; S1]; S2]; S1] .
R1, R2, and R3 are then concatenated together, giving 192 bits. The
first 80 bits are assigned to U1 and the second 80 bits to U2. The
rest are discarded. The unit key U is the XOR of U1 and U2. U1 and U2
are the key parts that are separately escrowed with the two escrow
agencies.
As a sequence of values for U1, U2, and U are generated, they are
written onto three separate floppy disks. The first disk contains a
file for each serial number that contains the corresponding key part
U1. The second disk is similar but contains the U2 values. The third
disk contains the unit keys U. Agent 1 takes the first disk and agent
2 takes the second disk. Thus each agent walks away knowing
an 80-bit seed and the 80-bit key parts. However, the agent does not
know the other 80 bits used to generate the keys or the other 80-bit
key parts.
The third disk is used to program the chips. After the chips are
programmed, all information is discarded from the vault and the agents
leave. The laptop may be destroyed for additional assurance that no
information is left behind.
The protocol may be changed slightly so that four people are in the
room instead of two. The first two would provide the seeds S1 and S2,
and the second two (the escrow agents) would take the disks back to
the escrow agencies.
The escrow agencies have as yet to be determined, but they will not
be the NSA, CIA, FBI, or any other law enforcement agency. One or
both may be independent from the government.
LAW ENFORCEMENT USE
When law enforcement has been authorized to tap an encrypted line, they
will first take the warrant to the service provider in order to get
access to the communications line. Let us assume that the tap is in
place and that they have determined that the line is encrypted with the
Clipper Chip. The law enforcement field is first decrypted with the
family key F, giving E[K; U] + N. Documentation certifying that a tap
has been authorized for the party associated with serial number N is
then sent (e.g., via secure FAX) to each of the key escrow agents, who
return (e.g., also via secure FAX) U1 and U2. U1 and U2 are XORed
together to produce the unit key U, and E[K; U] is decrypted to get the
session key K. Finally the message stream is decrypted. All this will
be accomplished through a special black box decoder.
CAPSTONE: THE NEXT GENERATION
A successor to the Clipper Chip, called "Capstone" by the government
and "MYK-80" by Mykotronx, has already been developed. It will include
the Skipjack algorithm, the Digital Signature Standard (DSS), the
Secure Hash Algorithm (SHA), a method of key exchange, a fast
exponentiator, and a randomizer. A prototoype will be available for
testing on April 22, and the chips are expected to be ready for
delivery in June or July.
ACKNOWLEDGMENT AND DISTRIBUTION NOTICE. This article is based on
information provided by NSA, NIST, FBI, and Mykotronx. Permission to
distribute this document is granted.
|
5899 | From: lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani)
Subject: Re: I believe in gun control.
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.
Lines: 22
In article <1993Apr3.221837.2324@news.duc.auburn.edu> bixledn@eng.auburn.edu writes:
>In article 16193@cbnews.cb.att.com, lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani) writes:
>> No, you haven't read it very closely . It says you may answer "No" if your
>> civil rights have been restored; that can be done either by the feds' or a
>> a state. I think the feds stopped doing this for those convicted of violent
>> felonies. At least a dozen states still restore a felons civil rights, some
>> immediately upon release, some after a waiting period. I will post a list
>> of the states later.
>>
>
> A quick question, then Larry, If a person's civil rights have been restored,
> then are they still considered a felon?
Good question; I don't know what the law considers them.
> IMO, if rights have been restored, then it makes sense to me that the
> record of the felony, and everything else has been purged, and the
> person in question is no longer a felon.
I believe this is what happens in some states.
--
Larry Cipriani -- l.v.cipriani@att.com
|
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