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what is the best time to refrigerate a stiff starter? I have some stiff starter in my fridge that I'm going to 'wake up' after a several-month-long nap. It's a 60% starter I made using Maggie Glezer's method. I'll bake with sourdough for awhile, then I get tired of feeding it twice a day, so I put it in the fridge an...	I currently am keeping 60 to 80 g of stiff starter (60%) in the fridge and use it twice a week to bake bread using about 40 g of it or so. When I refresh it about every 10 days there is only 10 g left. I add 20 g of water to it to thin it out, and then add 20 g of flour. That gets me to 50 g and a little less than 9...
Advice for 3rd loaf Hi,I tried my second sourdough it tasted good but there were a couple of problems and I was hoping I could get some tips before I try my next loaf.I think the bowl I proved in was too big, and the dough stuck to the floured tea towel that I lined the bowl with, so it was difficult to turn out onto t...	I'd have to say things may I'd have to say things may be a little over proofed. crust looks a little pale in spots, and this will cause little oven spring, along with a bit of deflation after whatever spring you do get while baking. dough sticking can be a problem. I've had that happen and loaves do flatten out fr...
Confused on using starter at 12 hrs or 24 hrs old? (Tartine / Forkish) I have a Tartine starter and thought that you HAD to use the starter no more than 12 hour old??I tried making some leaven bread using the Ken Forkish method and used my starter after it is 24 hours old (according to his recipe) and it works great. ...	Whether the starter is 12 or Whether the starter is 12 or 24 hours old is only a matter of flavor and choice. Forkish definitely has some sourdoughs where he uses the starter half way through a 24 hour feed, which is similar to the Tartine method. Hammelman chooses to use his starters at maturity, which is simpler an...
small levain tweak and big difference? So on my last loaf following the tartine recipe I got my best results yet..big open holes, thick crust and mellow sour flavor. I decided this time around that I wanted to punch up the sour flavor some more so I made my levain about 4 hours earlier than normal (about 7PM) and left ...	Hey Glen Hey Glen, Recently had a similar issue. I'm sure some may be a bit more informed as I haven't used the Tartine formula. Eaten the true thing once. Anyway as for levains and starters. There is a lot of effect to how and when to use a sponge or starter. Some have a very precise time to be used, particularly...
Final build flour type? Ok, not sure if this is a dumb question or not, but here goes. I have been making Hamelman's Vermont sourdough, with pretty decent success, for me anyway. On Saturday night I wanted to see what would happen if I added the rye that the recipe calls for into the final levain build. I kept the flou...	My personal taste makes me put 15% whole grains into white sourdough breads like this one. 5% each of spelt, rye and WW really takes the flavor up an notch while still keeping the big holes. This small amount of whole grains really puts this bread on another level. I also like to put the whole grains in the levain f...
Differences between course or fine ground whole wheat? What should I be aware of when grinding my whole wheat at a different coarseness?When it is very fine do I need to add more water?When it is very fine how does it affect the fermentation time?When it is course how does it affect the crumb of the bread?Thanks!	more info needed! It is difficult to target a truly useful response without knowing what kinds of breads you intend to make with with your home-milled whole wheat flour.are you making 100% whole wheat bread OR are you mixing whole wheat flour with commercial white flour?are you making sandwich bread or artisan/freeform...
poolish help 3389637F-3F79-4C33-8108-412BF8BE92EF.jpeg 72B88242-A81E-4777-AA1E-4E950B2A5BBB.jpeg hey hi guys i need your help (see photos)made a poolish starter i did 2g instant yeast 4970g flour and water and it's been sat for 24 hours at 12.2c and nothing happend . why is this??? can i leave it ano...	??? Poolish ought to be poofy and 2-4 x in volume after 12 hours. Might want to check that your yeast is still good. A sprinkle in a 1/4 cup of warm water with a bit of sugar or honey dissolved in it ought to be bubbly after 15 minutes or so.That’s a whole lot of poolish you’re making. Just curious, why so much?Phil
Sourdough starter I buy a starter; feed and discard once a day. Best guess as to how long it will be before the yeast and LAB in the flour I use come to dominate?	More detail required Please... Which starter? Condition of starter? How exactly fed? Temperature? The more details the better.
Lowering Starter Acidity I have a 100% hydration starter that I typically keep in my fridge and feed once a week. I normally use about 20% of the active starter to inoculate the new one.The last few times I have refreshed it, I've noticed it has a very strong alcohol smell from the high acidity. To lower the acid shoul...	the alcohol is usually a the alcohol is usually a sign of a starving starter. you can try less starter, or more flour in your feed - if using 1:1:1, try 1:2:2. lower hydration can also slow activity, may be worth a shot.
Rye Starter in a Regular Sourdough Recipe? I've been thinking about ways of kicking up the flavor in my usual sourdough recipe. I use Peter Reinhart's recipe from Artisan Breads Every Day with a slightly higher hydration at ~ 75%. I was thinking about substituting the regular sourdough starter with a rye starter, which...	Shouldn't be a problem. And it tastes great!
Will my starter be OK in the fridge? Hi!So I have heard that it takes about 30 days for a starter to be "mature." I am going to be going out of town next weekend, and it will have been 3 weeks since I started. It seems to be healthy- bubbles nicely, about doubles in size after 8 or a few more hours. Do you think it wil...	it sure will! feed normally it sure will! feed normally and when it starts to rise again, toss it in the fridge. most go a week between feedings when storing in the fridge so 3 days will be just fine. when you return, let it get to room temperature and rise normally, then start you normal feeding schedule again. yo...
Sourdough Starter on the counter top in hot weather..... I tried sticking my starter in the fridge, but it came out limp and watery. I suppose I like leaving it/Faye on the counter because I get to watch it grow. My issue is the very hot days and nights here in Phoenix. I wonder, and ask any one in the know, how the hi...	Shouldn't die. In one of my older books on sourdough, the starter is supposed to be left at a temperature of 95F. There is no way I can come close to that temp in my kitchen in Montreal, but I still managed to keep a starter alive and going strong for 5+ years. The heat should help it.
advice for my first loaf I've been taking really good care of my starter for about a month and it seems very healthy! I'm hoping to actually bake with it for the first time soon. I was going to try this recipe: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/24691/sourdough-recipe-beginners (but if anyone else has a different recomm...	Oh, I was also wondering if Oh, I was also wondering if someone could explain "proofing" (i can find instructions but no definition of what it means), and also i was wondering how long before baking should I feed the starter (I usually feed before I go to sleep...if I start the recipe in the morning without feeding is ...
Sticky Dough - recommendations please So I've got two recipes that I'm currently trying to get down, the Stella Culinary artisan loaf and Hammelman's Vermont Sourdough. Bulk ferment and slap and fold knead methods are the focus here. Regardless...I live in the PacificNorthwest. Wet environment. My doughs are going towa...	try a super thin smear of oil on the plasticrap and a super-thin layer on your hands. A few drops will do the trick and use cool hands and just your finger tips. If you want to back off the water, try backing down 10% and then working back up with 5% increases with each consecutive batch after you've gotten control o...
Sour Dough pancakes I am feeding my starters on a daily basis. I don't want to throw out what I get rid of each day so am saving this to make pancakes. I need a recipe for pancakes made with sourdough starter. Any other hints would be appreciated. thanks. Jan	Sourdough pancakes I love these sourdough pancakes - super simple and delicious: http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2009/02/24/sourdough-pancakes/ (from Susan (susanfnp) at Wild Yeast Blog) - Jackie
Refreshment ratios My standard starter refreshment (grams) is : 20 (starter) 35 (water) 35 (flour). This works OK, but I've been wondering about the effect of altering the starter amount up or down. I think that at present I have a "100 %" starter containing 29% of old starter.Is my math right? Could I speed up or slow...	I'd suggest trying a lower I'd suggest trying a lower percentage of starter. My current refresh rate is closer to 20g starter, 100g flour, 100g water. My first starter I did at a ratio similar to yours and my starter always seemed weak. I believe now that I was starving it, because as soon as I cut back on the perce...
Leftover starter properties I've seen recipes using leftover starter, English Muffins for example, but I'm not sure if there is supposed to be any activity in the leftover. Some of what I have saved looks like a proteolytic goo. I'm sure there are bacteria in there, but is that important or is the remainder just a flou...	Try it. Refresh it and see. After all, if the starter raised your bread the left over starter should be active as well.
We 3 gmas baked Sourdoughs As usual we all approached this bake differently... Helen made a dill boule using her basic sourdough recipe and adding powdered milk, potato flakes, and fresh chopped dill. You can see the little speckles of dill in there.Her loaves are the lead in photo, they look like they would be the fir...	Beautiful, all three-khalid Beautiful, all three-khalid
How to keep my starter alive for 3 months? I have to go on military basic training for 3 months in Sept and will have to trust my totally neophyte-on-that-regard husband for taking care of my starter...Any tested and approved way to make his life as easy as possible while maintaining a healthy and vigorous starter?? I ...	Dry some and store in freezer Dry some and store in freezer. No worries. Enjoy!
Seed culture with no acidity after Phase 4 - how to proceed? I'm following the seed culture instructions in Reinhart's Artisan Breads Every Day, aerating 3 times a day and feeding as directed based on fermentation. Using Pyrex measuring cups to monitor growth.5/20 p.m. Started Phase I with rye flour and juice from a...	warning: rocket science... Give it more time. As you can see from this study, eventually pH drops, some take longer than others. You might want to note the incubation temperatures used are well above 70°F (21°C) Reducing amounts of available food may help if temperatures are low, either reduce your food amounts ...
newbie help... i am an absolute beginner to baking bread. i started a few weeks back with regular yeast in the cute little packets and my simple sandwich bread was coming out perfect! I was so excited! i was able to make very basic bread taste good! Next was to grow my own starter. My goal is to be able to bake bread f...	It might have more than It might have more than doubled overnight, while you weren't watching it. It may have tripled, and when you saw it, it had shrank back to double, so when you saw it, it only look liked it doubled. It's likely that your dough was totally overfermented. Run a test with your dough during the day wh...
Thank you Paul, and wake up baby starter! A good two months ago we traveled to the States and member PMcCool, Paul, was kind enough to gift us some sourdough starter - dried and ready for international travel! After a couple PMs, he and his lovely wife allowed us to swing by to get our starter an evening towards the e...	Have fun, I'mTheMami! It was a pleasure to meet you ahd your beautiful daughters. Having raised two of our own, we don't get too concerned about little ones and their activity levels.You are welcome for the starter. I hope that it wakes up and flourishes in its new home south of the border. I won't make any promises...
Yet another Tartine newbie feeling lost.. So here is the long story. 8 days ago I began my starter following an online recipe that described the Tartine method. I combined 315g of 50/50 white and wheat flour (Trader Joe's AP, and KA) with 455g of warm water. It seemed sort of watery but I went with it. I put it in my b...	try this a simple and efficient method, nicely mapped out - http://mariana-aga.livejournal.com/190167.html
Tension / Oven Spring / Weak Edges The last two loaves I baked following the Tartine recipe have tasted great, but looked weak. Wondering if the weak edges (not round, but more pancake) and minimal oven spring are the result of poor shaping on my part or overproofing or something else? This loaf was 75% hydration, 5 ho...	Can we see Can we see a crumb photo to help us diagnose. I've yet to try the tartine loaf (well making it, i have eaten it once) but with a photo of the inside we can learn more. Also a touch more info. How are you baking it? temperature? stone? dutch oven? Josh
Sourdough science article Here is a free 2011 review article on the science of sourdough, to which Ian(ArsP) posted a link in his blog today. Nice collection of information for those curious about the biology and chemistry of natural levains.Tom	very nice of you to post this very nice of you to post this, thank you Tom :)evon
Brewer's Yeast Question Hi All,Can anyone here tell me the ratio of freshly pulled brewer's yeast from beer making to dry measurement in baking? I have the opportunity to get some from a local micro~craft brewery but don't even know where to start experimenting with it.Thanks,Toni	Web search: "Brewer's yeast Web search: "Brewer's yeast for baking bread"My second hit looks very interesting(and informative):http://pastrychefonline.com/2011/01/26/baking-with-brewers-yeast/I'm sure you can find many more informative hits. Remember: baker's yeast was originally from brewer's yeasts.Good luck!
Starter strength and use in Levain I have been trying to make Tartine's basic country bread. My starter is about 3 weeks old and I had been feeding it regularly with a 1:5:5 ratio (starter:flour:water) with a 50/50 mix of organic whole wheat and bread flour. It had been rising and falling predictably 5 days prior to me...	Hi, smintYou feed your Hi, smintYou feed your starter every 24 hours, which gives lacto-bacteria the edge over the wild yeasts. 50% whole wheat feeding schedule also ferments fast ,and so this happens quite fast too. The problem lies in your starter. try using it after a maximium of 6-8 hours. you'll notice it being ri...
Adding in extras Hi Guys. My newbie sourdough experiments are going well thanks to advice on this forum. I now want to do something a bit different and make a flavoured sourdough. For example, olives or seeds etc. Now, normally you knead these in just before the final proove. But what about sourdough? Normally I handle...	I put the add ins in teh dough during the stretch and folds If'm doing 4 on 15 minute intervals Iwould put them in on the set.Hope this helps
I think my starter is ready Hi, I started my starter about 2 weeks ago following a BBC good good food recipe which didn't seem to work. I tried to bake a loaf, it didn't rise and afterwards the starter smelt of rotten eggs! I started feeding it wholemeal flour, it went through a nail polish smell phase, but now seems t...	best to use the starter when best to use the starter when it is near or at its peak, when it is most active. I always feed a few hours before using to make sure all the little guys are happy and bubbly. I build up my starter daily till I have what is needed for a bake, which is twice a week. I'll add enough flour and w...
Cranberry and walnut sourdough bake Hey there!It’s been awhile since I’ve gotten a good SD loaf. Recently, all the loads I’ve attempted have seemed underproofed. This one seems promising, but I’m sure. Would love your thoughts! 5C3726E8-77C0-4F58-BAF9-40E54460855B.jpeg	That looks fabulous! Recipe please?
Vermont Sourdough Today I try the Vermont Sourdough from Jeffrey Hamelman's famous book. As the author said, "this is an excellent 'everyday bread'". The hydration is appropriate and the dough is easy to handle. My friend adapted the recipe according to the hydration of starter. I baked two of them.This is the first o...	That's what I want to accomplish!! It's picture perfect! What makes it Vermont sourdough? I am into my first week of making a sourdough starter. It went from smelling like rotten cheese to mild, fruity wine. I can't wait until it's strong enough to bake wIth!
Flat bread...Please help! I am having a really frustrating problem and I hope someone can help. I can only seem to bake flat loaves of bread. They never come close to round...just thick discs. They taste good but this is making me nuts. I am using the basic sourdough recipe from BBA which didn't seem like a terribly hi...	Posting a photo will help Posting a photo will help troubleshooting a lot. With so little info, here's my best guess: Your starter is too sluggish. Store it at room temp, feed more regularly (2x per day). Share more details on your feeding schedule & technique. If a 100% hydration starter (equal parts flour + water by ...
straight dough method instead of preferment with sourdough? Is this feasible? I'm not sure if it's feasible but am experimenting with 500gm loaves to see what happens. I'm basically adding straight starter 25gms to the flour mix, mix till shaggy, rest for 30mins, then salt and knead in my mixer for 5mins, then bulk p...	Should work I don't know if you can depend on the timings you've set up, but you can adjust the amount of starter you use to achieve your bulk-ferment target time. This is assuming that your room temperature is stable. I do know that the San Francisco bakery, Boudin, uses the straight dough method for their famous sour...
white flour and proportions I recently started feeding my starter all purpose flour instead of whole wheat. I'm still feeding it at 1:1:1 by weight, but the consistency seems quite thinner. Should I give it more flour so that it maintains the older consistency, or is it fine? (With whole wheat flour, the consistency wa...	how long between feedings? I'm no expert, but my thinking that 1:1:1 is going to provide food for a certain amount of time depending on temp and many other factors. 1:2:2 is providing relatively twice as much food so will last longer.I wouldn't worry too much about the consistency, just adjust as needed at final mixing...
Tears (not mine) Most of my loaves get a small tear near the base. The tops look good, I've gotten better at scoring, and the bread tastes great but the tears are really annoying. Any ideas what's causing them? Underproved? Poor shaping?	what is happening to the "bottoms" after they are shaped and rising? Exposed in a banneton? Covered, not covered, floured, naked, wet, dry, oiled? What is your relative humidity? :)
Looking for a simple starter Hello Friends,Thanks for all the inspiring pictures and posts of all the bread you have made. I have been lurking and baking behind the scenes and I really want to try making a starter. There are a few things holding me back though and I was hoping for some advice/help.I am not a big fan of...	I used this method to create I used this method to create my starter, which didn't require any waste.
Sourdough starter troubleshooting Hi all,I have made a sourdough starter from rye flour, also adding some white flour (plain, not bread flour) to feed it, from the River Cottage Bread Book. It's been very successful, bubbling away nicely, & I made some tasty bread with it (just adding a ladleful with dough already con...	Why this has happened... The separation is happening because activity in the starter has fallen off. Food has been consumed and now low and the wee-beasties in the sourdough culture are saving their energy for when more food magically appears. Good that you thickened it. A thin starter left if this condition too lon...
Rye starter vs white starter Hi,This is my first post but I've been trying to bake sourdough for a few months. What I'm wondering is whether different starters are more or less active than each other e.g. is a rye starter is more active than a white starter?I've managed to start and maintain a rye starter and am using ...	Usually I use a starter that Usually I use a starter that is the same flour as the dough I want to make. But there are no set rules sometimes you can use a white starter for your white bread but also add a little rye starter to bring out a little more sour flavor. In the beginning I would stick to the same flour in sta...
starter has very little activity Hi!I'm making a starter for the first time and think I am having some trouble. I used the "pineapple juice" method and started seeing bubbles and hooch after about 5 days. After about 8 days i was seeing a lot of activity after feeding it. Now it has been about 10 days, and several hour...	Keep going A starter will go through a very active phase initially as the lactobacillus grow first and they are pretty active little buggers! Then the yeast starts catching up, the lactos decrease and the yeast are the slower to develop dough lifters. You need to keep going to build their numbers and you will start see...
Newbie poster & newbie baker Hello to all my fellow bakers!I have been reading as many posts as I can fit between going to work and walking the dog! I've made a few attempts at sourdough bread with mixed results to say the least, but generally getting slowly better thank goodness! Today's bake was a small loaf of 76% h...	I am kind of a sourdough beginner myself but... ...here is my opinion! :) I think it looks really good! And delicious! I agree it's flat because of the high hydration, I have had a similar result when increasing the hydration in my dough. And scoring in a high hydration loaf is a beast...I have yet to sucessfully do it...
Possibly mold? Hi, It's been a long time since I fed my starter. I am pretty sure this is just hooch but can someone tell me if they think it's mold? It's not fuzzy or slimy. Its very looses and can be scooped off easily and looks fine underneath. It's smells fine. I poured off maybe a a tablespoon of hooch before I to...	I saw your post yesterday, I saw your post yesterday, but thought it best to see if others with more experience would reply. I have never experienced this, but if it was me I’d scrap off the top part with the black substance and refresh with the healthy looking portion below. I don’t think you have a serious problem, a...
Teaching the sourdough method in a 6 hour workshop Hi folksI'm currently half way through a 12 hour course (2 sessions of 6 hours on consecutive Sundays) in a small village hall in deepest, darkest Somerset (England), with up to 12 very keen students (although 2 have already given their apologies for next Sunday):http:...	My practice with sourdough and classes is to build whatever quantity I need for the students' breads, plus for my own demonstration bread, prior to class. Since my students typically have no prior sourdough experience, I also prepare enough starter (50% hydration) for them to take home and maintain. The former amount...
Gluten Free sourdough recipe? So excited I THINK after 2 weeks my gluten free sourdough starter is active enough for me to start making GF sourdough. It's doubling in size and smells great :)I was just wondering if anybody has a trusted recipe for GF sourdough bread?	try here Hi Sonia,Sharon Kane used to post at TFL, see her blog here: http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.thefreshloaf.com/blog/sharonk&sa=U&ei=yYonT-SpK6ua0QXGn5X5BA&ved=0CAQQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEK...Her book is available here: http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Art_of_Gluten_Free_Sourdoug...
leaven shelf life I was in the process of preparing bread. I had built my Leaven for use in the next morning, and I got a call that a relative was dying. I put the Leaven in a sealed glass jar and into the frig and left. Now the time has passed about 2 weeks.Is there any chance of reviving the levan I have prepaired?	Freezer I agre with madauar. However, when going away for longer than a week, put your starter in the freezer. Mine took a week of nurturing when I defrosted them (I keep two), but then they were back to their old chipper selves.
Organic Lemon Juice in lieu of Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) Commercially produced sourdough contains vitamin C as an additive to improve leavening action. I've been thinking about using fresh organic lemon juice as an alternative and wondering whether anyone has tried this yet? +Wild-Yeast	Ascorbic acid in lemon juice First, let me say that I have not tried lemon juice in dough, so can't speak with any authority on using it as an additive. But, I did look it up in The Corinne T. Netzer Encyclopedia of Food Values, which says that 1 fluid oz. of fresh lemon juice has 14 mg of vitamin C. That's not much fo...
Levain Question Hello All,I am still getting my feet wet with sourdough and have been perusing through many recipes. I have made a few loaves in which I incorporate the starter into the final dough right off the bat and let that ferment for 12-24 hours. I have also found recipes that use a seperate levain rise. What is...	have tried the sponge method have tried the sponge method, but didn't see much advantage to it. it is great to make sure your starter has rising ability (essentially a first prove), but I add starter, then water, mix, then flour to work up the dough. knead, then sit for about 12 hrs, usually doubling in size in that ...
Replenishing a starter I have a question related to using a certain amount of starter and then refeeding the starter. Let's say hypothetically I have 4 cups of starter(which is a lot I know) and my recipes calls for 1 cup of starter. In order to feed the starter can I use the 1 cup of starter and then feed it with 1 cu...	Four cups is a lot Why would you have four cups of starter? I think sometimes I get as high as two, if I've fed it without making anything, but I'll use it for bread AND pancakes, leaving me with less than one cup. I feed that with one cup flour and one cup water, in a clean starter tub. Pancakes are a good alternativ...
French Buttermilk Starter Hi There,I had some leftover buttermilk so I decided to make a starter using Beth Hensperger's recipe from The Bread Lover's Bread Machine Cookbook and being a newbie to baking, I need some help.First, she gives instructions for a first feeding after 36 hours but does not indicate how often to...	What's in the starter?? What's in the starter?? Usually you would keep refreshing every day for at least a week until it is fully developed.
Now I know what you rye people are saying! I created a rye starter a few weeks ago. I have been experimenting with 100% rye bread because I have a family member who can no longer tolerate gluten, yet loves bread.I have read about how wonderful rye starters smell, and my young little starter just smelled like beer. St...	Rye contains gluten Don't forget this for somebody with celiac, as even the smallest amount could be bad.
Consistent splitting at bottom/of loaf -- Ideas? Greetings -I'm hoping the experts here will give me a few ideas of what to try to prevent splitting at the bottom of my baguettes. I've included a few photos.Interestingly, this splitting happens only when I use my perforated pans. If I use parchment paper on a stone, th...	Seam side down It looks like the seam is not completely under the loaf when the baguette is baking. Sometimes it's difficult to see the seam and ensure it is on the bottom and not twisted. Another issue might be too much flour on the bench when final shaping that might prevent the seams at the ends from sealing compl...
Leaven Hi, I was just wondering what percentage of starter is supposed to be in your leaven. Any help is greatly appreciated	20% 20% for wheat sourdough. Exmpl: 100 g Bread flour 60 g Water 20 g Starter For Rye sourdough 5-10 % Mirko
Anyone made Stanley Ginsberg's pumpernickel? Not sure it should go in this section as it's unleavened bread, made only with coarse rye flour and water.I tried it and I got something that required a hacksaw to cut (yes, our knives are sharp).I followed instructions except for the mixing: I don't have a heavy duty mixer ...	Take a look here... http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/49936/westphalian-pumpernickel
Sourdough Yesterday, I stumbled upon an old TFL conversation about using kefir to get a sour flavor in bread and saw someone mentioned using buttermilk. If I feed my starter with a flour and buttermilk blend, leave it out to get happy, will that help produce a more sour flavor? Sour sourdough is still an illusive bugg...	What percentage of hydration What percentage of hydration is your starter. A more liquid starter would produce more lactic acid and a firmer starter( say 50% ) would produce more acetic acid. If you are looking to get more Tang( more acetic acid) you might want to start by having a firmer starter.Can you give us more i...
sourdough preferment Hi allI've been baking sourdoughs a couple of months and messed about with all sorts of variables. Lots of starter,little starter,short fermentation/long prove after shaping, fridge proving,warm water, cold water and many more. I've a tendency to change more than one variable at once too which does...	Beautiful loaves-why change anything? The proof is in the pudding (or loaf). Your bread looks awesome and sounds like it tastes good,too. "Sourdough" starter does not necessarily make bread taste sour and it sounds like that is what is happening here.The only comment I have is that I just bought a Brod and Taylor proof...
weak starter Hello, a technical question here. My wild yeast sourdough starter, started and maintained with rye flour, has been rising bread dough pretty well for a few month now. It also works well when the rye is replaced with whole wheat flours to make whole wheat starters. All these starters expand 2-3 times ov...	Drop the hydration a bit for white flour - try 100%. Rye and whole wheat both absorb more water than white, so the mixture is thicker at a given hydration. I think with white flour at 100%, you will see it rise.
Converting white starter to rye starter... is it supposed to rise? I've been making sourdough for a few years now, refreshing my starter at 1:2:3 and it works just swell. Lately I've been baking more and more rye bread. I usually just use my white starter and recipe, subbing in about 50% rye which I hydrate the night...	I have been through the same I have been through the same thing as you and here is how you fix the issue. First, you don't need your rye starter to double or triple but maybe increase about 1/3 the size. Second is that your white starter is not used to being fed rye as it's sole source of food so you need to graduall...
Accidental starter; advice? I followed a recipe for oatmeal bread (possibly from here) that required a biga a few months ago. I put the extra biga in the freezer, thinking I would repeat the recipe at some point. Recently, we moved, and I packed all my freezer contents in boxes for transport, etc. This afternoon, I dis...	I think you should try it. Take a heaping teaspoon of the best goo in the middle, blend with about 4 parts more of water, toss in whatever flour was in the biga make a nice wet paste or soft dough, cover lightly and find a nice spot for it to ferment. :) It should work just fine! Save the old biga for a few days as...
Rye starter maintenance Hello everyone, novice sourdough enthusiast here. I've been lurking around this site for some time now and after successfully making my sourdough starter from scratch I feel it's time to move onto a new project - Rye!I mixed my rye starter yesterday at about 150% hydration using organic rye flou...	rye forever. It wouldn't make sense maintaining two wheat starters.
Whole Grain Loaf Thoughts Hi all,I've attempted to bake this whole grain sourdough loaf the past two weekends. The taste has been great! Hearty with a nice rye taste in background. My problem is that I haven't been seeing good results with my scoring or the oven spring that I want. My first attempt, the loaf exploded o...	Can you post your formula and Can you post your formula and technique? It will be much easier to diagnose your problems knowing more information.usually if the loaf bursts at the sides it means it is either underproofed and/or you didn't shape the loaf correctly.By your photos it doesn't look like you scored the loaf ...
Seed ratio for a 75% hydration starter I was wondering about what ratio to feed my starter...so far, I've gone on observation, and settled on something, but I think I've got way too high of a seed ratio: 100% flour 75% starter 75% water (i.e. 75% hydration). This is for a 14 hour (approx.) period. Then, for the next 10...	Also, how does one know when Also, how does one know when the starter is at it's peak of activity? Or the range of it's activity? Is there an observation or rule of thumb one can apply to a starter of any type to determine this? (Not refering to the float test, but something that would indicate the strength of the star...
sourdough starter substitution If a recipe calls for use of a FIRM starter can I use a more batter-like starter? If so, in what percentage? Same weight? or volume? or more or less? Thanks	A good starting point is to A good starting point is to think of a firm starter as 50%. This means the weight of the water in the starter is half(50%) of the weight of the flour. So if you have 3 oz.(or grams etc) of firm starter, 2 oz is flour and 1 oz is water. So water is 1/3 of the firm starter by weight, and 2/3 f...
Overkneading So it seems you can over knead by hand. Although I think the commonly held belief that you cannot perhaps doesnt include doughs which have been autolysed?Yesterday I made Pain au Levain with Wholewheat flour from Hamelmans Bread. I autolysed for 45 mins but then kneaded for a further 10 minutes or so and q...	Pictures! The picture shows my pain au levain with wholewheat(the successful attempt)-its the batard shape. The other loaf is Levain Cheese Bread again from Mr Hamelmans book. Both very pleasing!Heelpp! I can't stop baking!;)
Problem with sourdough pancakes + crumpets Hi, first post ---I'm a reasonably experienced s/d bread baker --- have been baking loaves regularly for about six years. I maintain my starter pretty well, and have a good idea of its rhythm and quirks. It's been a long time since I had any problems making bread with it, bu...	Crumpets - forgive my ignorance I grew up eating crumpets just about every Saturday and am real particular - ie - they are really good when they are nice and thick - at least 1/2 inch high. As such have made them on occasion. It's been a while but to memory, the baking soda is key and particularly making sure the batte...
No knead one stage sourdough is a success after years of doing the same thing Hi, A bit over ayear ago I posted a few questions about ano-knead sourdough recipe that had a long rise (about 16 hrs). Due to the long rise with the acidic medium of the sourdough the phytic acid probably breaks down which is better for d...	grams to ounces? This calculator ought to help: http://www.metric-conversions.org/weight/grams-to-ounces.htm
Sourdough health benefits Hi folks, I've been looking at this site for a while, but this is my first post. I've been reading more and more about the health benefits of sourdough and was wondering if those benefits are negated by the addition of small amounts of commercial yeast if the ferment / proof times remain long....	Health Benifits I believe the health benefits are your knowledge of what is going into your bread, your satisfaction of making something that tastes good, and the exercize you get from making the bread. Use the manual method of kneading and get your exercize. Ford
Wholewheat-rye Sourdough Wholewheat-rye Sourdough I've been learning and lurking on the site for about a year now and have learned so much from all of you! Thank you!Here are pictures of the latest bread I've made, a long fermentation wholewheat-rye sourdough. Here is the crumb shot:I'm really happy with this recipe ...	Loaf looks great! I wanted Loaf looks great! I wanted to make some sort of bread this weekend incorporating rye. I might just try this one!For some reason, 20 min seemed fast to me. What did you bake it on?
Making Sourdough Pancakes Fluffy So I made sourdough pancakes last week which turned out delicious. My only problem with them is I wish they were a tad bit fluffier. (FYI - I fed my starter late the night before and made the pancakes using starter at peak conditions) I know these treats tend to be on the heavier side, ...	I use the separated egg technique with sourdough waffles. It seems to work well for me. I would think it would work well in pancakes, too.If you are using sourdough, you have plenty of acid for the baking soda - but you are correct, batters with baking soda should be baked right away. So what I generally do is beat ...
Durum Wheat & Rye Create High Acetic Acid Content After a series of experiments I've come to a partial conclusion that rye and durum wheat both create high acidity starters that impart the sour tang to the finished bread. Wholewheat, AP, Hard Red Winter and Spring do not produce high acidity from my refrigerated low hy...	Another datum, Wild-Yeast The sourest bread that I have ever made or eaten was whole wheat, no rye or durum included. And by sour, I mean wincingly, puckering sour. No-fun-to-eat sour, for my tastes. This was made with the very first starter I had ever grown and I knew diddly about sourdough at the time. It was eno...
Probiotics in your starter? I was skimming through a copy of the book "The Art of Baking with Natural Yeast" by Warnock and Richardson and read a suggestion that one could use a pro-biotic tablet, such as the ones used as a digestive aid, to stimulate a sourdough starter. Up until I read that, I thought the book was p...	Yes, you could. The CO2 Yes, you could, cultures depending. The CO2 production might not be significant enough, though, depending upon the nature of the culture you're adding. Many probiotic microflora are the same as commonly-isolated sourdough microflora, which is, of course, due to the fact that none of these org...
Milk or other liquid for preparing sourdough starter overnight Would it be possible to make a sourdough starter ("biga") for bread or something sweet with milk instead of water? Wouldn't milk (pasteurised or ultra-heated) go bad overnight? And how about bear, grain coffee, whey etc.?Any ideas or experience?Thanks, zden...	milk works and works as an acid buffer, that means that the biga in the same amount of time will get less sour than the equivalent biga made with water. If you want sourness water is the liquid to use.And no, milk won't spoil.
Help for a newbie with a starter OK, so I've taken the plunge. I did the water and flour thing last night; and my book says that by day 5 it will start bubbling. It bubbled after ONE day. Doubled in size. I've fed it, but do I need to start again. The context is that it's truly freezing here, and the heating is bust in...	No it is just the bad bacteria making the normal ruckus. Just hang in there and continue to follow the feeding schedule recommended. Completely normal for abnormal wee beasties at this time!
dead starter? I have looked at the other dead starter threads but could not find any that were like mine...So i had a very nice starter, but after some neglect i think its dead. I leave mine on the counter and feed it everyday (usually) 1:2:2. but when i went to feed it the other day (i go back to 1:1:1) if i missed a ...	Throw it away. Use the spoon Throw it away. Use the spoon or whatever tool you used to dump the old stuff to mix 100 to 250 grams of flour plus equal H20.The spoon will inoculate the new batch.Leave out, do not refrigerate unless you are in a hot climate. Give it whatever time it needs. If it is at 80 degrees you will ...
Theoretical minimum size for a starter Whilst feeding my starter this evening, for fun I was pondering what the minimum size would be for a sustainable starter. At the moment I only get to bake a loaf once a week, and use 28g of my 100% hydration starter, which I feed once a week. So in theory I guess if I kept 14g of...	I too bake one or twice a week using about 30-35 g of starter. After two weeks, I have used 60-70 g of starter out of the 80 g that I build to every 2 weeks. When i make my last loaf of bread over 2 weeks I take the 10 g of starter left and build it back to 80 g and 65% hydration over 3 builds and back in the fridg...
Random questions which you may be able to answer 1) Autolysation. If the longer you do it, the more strength it builds, why not autolyse overnight or even longer, adding the starter next day? Why do recipes usually call for a half hour or an hour? Is it possible to over-autolyse?2) Different recipes call for different ...	Ben, first, the easiest Ben, first, the easiest question is the last line - no there are no definitive answers to any of your questions. There are just too many variables, and different goals in terms of taste and appearance.Autolyze - you can go longer, though some report dough degradation if it goes too long. Levian...
Starter stays peaked for 5 hours Hi All, I was wondering if maybe someone else has seen this in their starter. My starter (100% hydration white starter) has started to stay peaked for hours and hours, I fed it this morning at 7:00 AM. It has been peaked since 3:00 PM and as of yet (8:30 PM) has shown no signs of fallin...	Hi Lisa, You are going to get Hi Lisa,You are going to get a lot of comment on this one. Nothing is stagnant and that certainly includes starters. Use your nose, smell it when first mixed (refreshed) and then as it is fermenting, when it reaches a visual peak, and some time after that. Your nose will tell you more t...
Sourdough sponge in refrigerator I made Theresa Greenway's Sourdough sponge bread and loved it. My question is how long can I keep the sponge in the refrigerator before I proceed with it to make bread. She says to put it in overnight, but I can't get to it overnight, I am hoping i can leave it for 2 days. Thanks!	I routinely leave bread to I routinely leave bread to retard in the fridge for two days, and I've left it for four days when I was in a pinch; no issues so far.
Sourdough Parmesan/herb crackers Favorite use so far for "discard" starter:2.5 oz AP flour2.5 oz WW flour (I've been using atta)1 tsp kosher salt1 tbsp herbes de provence (or rosemary, or what you will)3 oz butter, cold, cut into 8 pieces1 oz Parmesan cheese, shredded8 oz leftover 100% hydration starter (add water as n...	Sourdough Parmesan/herb crackers They sound ridiculously good, will try them this weekend. Thanks!
Bland sourdough... is it my starter? BLAND Bread!I've tried a numberous number of recipes, keep coming back to bland sourdough. I caught part of a blog entry that mentioned maybe the good bacteria in my starter has gone toast? Interested in any information on how to diagnose a good starter. Right now I'm refreshing wee...	Certainly sounds like yeast yes, bacteria, no. Taste can be so subjective. Is bland not sour? If we weren't talking about bread I'd say bland means not enough salt.How long have you done for long ferments? Another couple of factors to consider are temperature and food. To coax the bacteria to develop flavor it helps to...
I Think I'm Getting This Down After I made this loaf I started to think I could really start making stunning sourdough loaves like I see all over this site. I have a lot to learn about slashing, my tools consist of an exacto knife, a serrated knife and a chef's knife, none of which do a good job on their own but in con...	Lisa, The bread looks great. Lisa,The bread looks great. Sourdough will soon be second nature to you...if it is not already.Jeff
Determining Starter Strength Hi all,I've been feeding my new starter for about a week and a half now (1:2:2, whole wheat flour, every 12 hours). Unfortunately I am either asleep or at work when the starter would be peaking and most active. So when I get home from a long day at work or when I wake up it is hard to tell ...	Any glass jar with a loose Any glass jar with a loose fillting top is best, a glass cookie jar is even better then a mason jar, you hand fits in better to clean it and scrape the sides down. I use a glass mason jar, in the morning after I feed it I mark the outside of jar with a sharpie, and make sure the sides are scr...
Stirring down starter btw feedings My starter is about 3 weeks old, but has only been active for about 10 days. It has been on 12 hour feedings, unbleached AP, 1:1:1, 72° - 77° f. It seems to be doing very well.A few days ago I was going to be away for an unknown length of time, noticed that my starter had peaked (~120...	yes It seems like stirring it down after it peaks makes it even more active - I am guessing this is because the much larger population of microflora is being exposed to new food by the stirring, or something along those lines (did I guess right? does anyone know?).Yes, the food is redistributed to the yeast and by stir...
My rye starter is ill... Hi allI need some urgent medical input for my seriously ill rye sourdough starter. I'd left it in the fridge since Tuesday and I decided to give it a feed last night. As I stirred the starter I noticed that it had a tinge of redness to it, I wouldnt call it red but rather just a shade of pink a...	I'd remove the fridge and let the starter at room temperature as long as necessary until it recovers. Feeding it generously every 12 hours with boiled water and wholemeal rye flour and it will come back to business in short. rye starters never let you down!
Levain not rising as it should So, I'm still trying to figure out sourdough/levain breads. I've had/maintained an active (125% hydration) culture for some time now (several months?), but I don't have the time to use it very often so I keep it in the fridge most of the time.When I am going to use it, I generally take it...	Sounds like you have some Sounds like you have some timing issues.If your starter is ripe early, you need to adjust your timings. In addition, you said when it comes to the end of the bulk fermentation, my dough has no gas bubbles in it whatsoever and has not risen or expanded. If your dough hasn't just about doubled i...
Ancient But Not Mini Oven's No Muss No Fuss 'Leave me Alone' Starter - 8 Days Later We took up Mini Oven's see what happens starter by mixing up some unbleached flour with some water - golf ball size, putting it into a brown paper bag with some extra flour, no peaking for 7 days, and see what you get in a week. Pau...	Nice one... I missed mini's Nice one... I missed mini's experiment, she is invaluable asset to community. Should be a good start for no SD beginner bakers.I'm watching the progress on this one, DA!
Starter maintenance I was told that a FreshLoafer had asked about my method of sourdough maintenance. Now that my baking is done at home as needed, and not as daily production, my method might be pertinent to some FL bakers. During my first baking job, I worked for a German woman in Northampton, Massachusetts. We used ...	Thanks for posting your Thanks for posting your starter maintenance, Jeff. A TFL user, gavinc got me interested in trying your method. Most of the TFL bakers are used to refreshing once the starter peaks and just barely starts to recede. I have been unable to get any starter to go 24 hr using this criteria at room temp...
ANyone had a Sourdough Jack starter in constant use since the 60's? I am intrigued. A couple summers ago,at a fleamarket, I found a Sourdough Jack Sourdough Pot completely intact with the tag,instructions and packet inside the pot. I was very new to sourdough and din't feel expert enough to revive it. Now I'm ready. I ...	check this thread It discusses Sourdough Jack, some folks have had it active for a while:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11205/quotantiquequot-sourdough-starter#commentsIn any case, the feeding technique of saving old dough from the pre-ferment you make is just fine, and will be totally effective. To answer your other...
Sourdough Culture Built Up...What Now? So I decided to venture into something I haven't really done before and start my own sourdough culture. I've built up what I believe to be a decent liquid-levain starter as in accordance to Hamelman's Bread. Now that I have it, however, I'm a little confused as to what to do with ...	Sourdough Starter 1/ The starter should be active when you make the "levain Build" (page 153). To do this feed the starter in the ratio (by weight) of starter:flour:water::1:1:1 and wait until the starter has doubled in bulk. Then make the "levain build".2 & 3/ Discard starter to keep the amount on hand to a manag...
Sourdough tastes like rye bread I tried to search to see if this has happened, but i cannot seem to find an answer. I just baked my first sourdough loaf from a fairly new starter (1 month) and instead of tasting like sourdough it tasted like rye. I started with rye/whole wheat mix with pineapple juice, but later feedin...	Yes, keep feeding with only Yes, keep feeding with only white flour + water daily, and the taste should transform quickly. I don't know how you feed, but if you save 2 tbsp of starter and feed 100g of white flour and 100g of water 2x per day, within 5 days or so it should taste like a white starter. That said, maybe so...
Spreadsheet for Hydration Calculation adjustments for use with starters and soakers I need a few people to test out my hydration spreadsheet for determining adjusted hydrations when using a 100% starter and soakers .Right now it only works under the assumption that you are using a 100% Starter - but I am working on tha...	@kmcquade I took a quick look at your spreadsheet.Do yourself a favor and check out www.bbga.org and go to their formula formatting guidelines (you do not have to be a member to access this).Their solution to this issue is much more straightforward and has had input from many well regarded professional bakers. It solve...
Beginner Questions about proofing, loaf size and the "shape" of oven spring Hello everybody. I’m new to the world of making (not eating!) sourdough bread, having only baked it three times, and have been reading through this site and various other internet blogs, websites, and videos to try and learn as much as possibl...	Final shape & "ooziness" of Final shape & "ooziness" of any bread has to do with many factors including:the hydration of the final doughthe type of flouramount of pre-ferment (sourdough, starter, etc) in the final doughbaking container and dough volumeshaping technique Hydration is pretty obvious: wet means more oozy. ...
Levain stored in fridge. Hello to everyone I'm new here and doesn't got the best english, already saying sorry for my errors.Coming back to what I'm curious about, I got a stif levain got from my work and now I'm making artisan bread at home but I store my levain in the fridge and some times some breads doesn't come wi...	Welcome to the board! If you aren't using your levain often, it is ok to feed it once a week - just let it sit out a few hours to get somewhat active before putting it back in the refrigerator. And when you go to use it, refresh it a couple times to totally activate it before using it in the recipe, then use about 3/4 ...
Mark Bittman's Whole Grain "Sourdough" Article So Mark Bittman had a piece in the NY Times today or yesterday on the deliciousness of whole grain bread, and how sourdough is the best method for making it. I tend to agree (warning: rank amateur's lay opinion), but I don't think that any of his recipes are actual sourdou...	Mark Bittman's Whole Grain "Sourdough" Article You are correct. What he offers up as a "Sourdough Rye" is a decent recipe, but not really sourdough-based. It uses commercial yeast, albeit the several days taken for pre-ferment.
starter in the kitchen drain The post a short time ago about having a clogged drain from what I gathered was a one time dump of some starter that had hardened and a plumber had to remove, interested me.I always dump my starter discards on my compost pile and am very careful about my kitchen drain. But when you stop and...	I don't know what's different I don't know what's different about starter versus just a flour and water mixture, but when starter dries, it turns to cement and becomes difficult to clean off. I noticed that long ago and now when I pour starter down the drain, I put it in a bowl and run water into it to dilute it down ...
Whole Weat Starter Smells Off So I have a WW starter going with 100% hydration that is a little over a month old. I have been feeding it twice daily for about 3 weeks give or take a few days where I was only able to feed once daily. It doubles in size within 4 hours. Just recently I have noticed that before my feedings...	Yep, stinky dirty sweat socks. Been there... Let the starter reach maximum peak or rise and start to level off or fall down a little before finally reducing and feeding. I would suspect that the starter is being overfed or can't eat thru the flour food before being diluted with more food. Let the acid in the starter...
Best moment to harvest from established sourdough starter? A bit of a noobie question but I am wondering what the optimal time is to take material from an established starter. If I feed my starter in the morning, by noon it has doubled and sometimes continues increasing for another hour or two. Then it will begin to ...	I would take it at peak or I would take it at peak or when it has just started to reduce in volume. Point is, you want to use it when its most vigorous for best and most reliable results.
Sourdough starter HELP Hello dear members. I’m hoping you’re all keeping well.I need your help, so here it goes:I purchased two types of flour:1- •Wholemeal / Ingredients: Wholemeal wheat flour2- Plain Flour / Ingredients; Flour(wheat flour, calcium, iron, niacin, thiamin), Raising agents (acid calcium phosphate, sodiu...	Hi,The bad news first: Plain Hi,The bad news first: Plain flour with a raising agent is not all purpose. In Australia, it is called self-raising flour and definitely not for sourdough starters or levains.Wholemeal flour is not whole-wheat flour, it is usually lower extraction wheat flour with some bran added back in. I...
D. Leader's Whole Spelt Loaf (Local Breads) It looks like I have some challenges with Leader's recipes. I wanted to bake this Spelt loaf with SD, so I used his measurements without giving it a closer look.this is the recipe:SD 50gr (I elaborated with spelt flour)water 275grHoney 50grspelt flour 500grsalt 10gr.acco...	That recipe is messed up. That recipe is messed up. My recollection is that you need to double time (or amount of sour) to make it work. Breadcetera or breadtopia, don't remember which site, but the one with videos has a whole spelt recipe which looks exactly like Leader's with all kinks ironed out.
Detmolder Method on White Sourdough I've used the Detmolder method, as described by Hamelman, the past week for a couple of sourdough rye breads.I especially like how sour the Detmolder gets the second stage of this process. It makes the rye loaves taste wonderful.I got to thinking: if this Detmolder makes rye bread t...	Sounds great! Please share Sounds great!Please share some pictures and your formula and method when you get a chance.Always looking for new ideas myself to try.Thanks,Ian
noobie, very confused over recipes calling for "1 cup sourdough starter", do they mean pre-ferment? So I've got a good healthy starter. I feed it once a day which is removing all of it but 50grams, then adding 100gms water and 70gms organic rye. Over the next 24hrs it doubles and I repeat the process. Now I have all...	Using starter discard Hi thereIn general recipes for using up starter 'discard' do not rely on the leavening power of the starter. In fact, they will often include chemical leaveners such as baking powder, baking soda. They usually don't include any long fermentation steps. My favourite pancake recipe can be found on ...
Looking for feedback Looking for feedbackI tried out Jeff Hamelman's Pain au Levain WW recipe last night and I was hoping someone could give me feedback on how to improve the texture and the flavor. I know it's tough to critique flavor here, but the loaf was lacking in any hint of sour. It was soft and moist. The crust...	Looks fine to me A whole wheat starter is by nature milder than a rye starter. It's my default for sourdough breads that shouldn't be too tangy, (like many of Peter Reinhart's whole grain breads).Though I'm no great friend of sweetener in breads, I found that 100% whole wheat breads taste better with an addition of hon...

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