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IS Benetton necessary? I have been trying to shape a Boule for many times, but it come out quite flat. I have tried to left it on the counter, in mixing bowl, in dining bowl and so forth, but neither of them will have to maintain its shape. I did the second proof without rice flour, replaced it with a bowl lined with g...	Whatever recipe/formula you Whatever recipe/formula you are using, your dough sounds slack. Possibly high hydration?Take extra care in shaping, and do not overproof. Also what works for me is to place the shaped loaf in a cast iron or enameled dutch oven, and let the final rise take place there, then baking it in the v...
Leaven sinking like a rock.... my starter is about three weeks old, give or take a few days. I've baked twice with it, and although the leaven "floated," I simply didn't trust it to completely do the job of adding air to my bread, so I cheated with a bit of yeast. Today was supposed to be my first yeast free bake and...	False alarm Not to say that I make much ado over nothing, but, yes, I am an alarmist. 30 minutes later and she floats. Whew. here's to my first bake without a commercial starter. I'm all atwitter!
Have I killed my starter? Well, now that I understand what the numbers mean (1:1:1, 1:2:2, and so on), and also realized I could reduce the amount of flour I was using (waaaay too much), I ended up running out of unbleached AP flour tonight and fed my starter with rye flour as it was the only unbleached flour I had and...	Rye better for starters? Thanks for your response. I had read that rye was a better starter in several posts/blogs, but since I had began my starter on unbleached AP and stoneground whole wheat, I wasn't sure if going to straight rye would be advisable. I ran out of the AP, had never heard of anyone using straight wh...
Sourdough starter: what do the numbers mean? It started with Michael Pollan's book "Cooked". The concept that any old Tom, Dick, or Harry (or in this case Kelly) could create a sourdough starter which would then birth a loaf of bread was intriguing. Somehow I ended up reading blogs about Chad Robertson's Tartine brea...	It's starter,: water and flour 1 part starter 2 parts water and 3 parts flour is a 1;2:3 A fine beginning bread where you would use 100 g of starter 200 g of water and 300 g of flour.Also works for starter feedings where the first is the starter seed and the feeding amint of water and flour follow.Sorry about the ear...
Tartine: am I doing it wrong? I've been following the Tartine method for many months, with reasonable results. But always looking to improve.Another thread here (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/34954/clarification-my-starter-feeding-process) makes me wonder if I my understanding of the Tartine method is correct... spe...	Les, I'm pretty sure . . . . . . he means equal amounts by weight. All the baking books I have spec the formulas in weight by grams or ounces. This is normal. b
Sudden Starter Death? Greetings,It has been a while since I've done any serious baking, and a couple of years since I've experimented with wild yeast breads. I decided to give it another go, and to try a firm starter this time, using the method described in Peter Reinhart's Artisan Bread Every Day. I thought I had su...	reshape the dough warming with your hands and redistributing the food for the yeast... could even add some fresh yeast (paste with a little water) and work it into the dough to make sure it rises without getting too sour. It will rise with time but if you want to get finished this afternoon, add some yeast to boost th...
molasses in hawaii, sourdough cure? Molasses is heavy and a blanket of death at the bottom. Wonder what would happen if sourdough was introduced?	The salt is pretty high in seawater and would likely stunt the effect of SD. Now a fresh water SD spill could be a different story - one where SD took over a beach adn maybe an entire Island :-)
Fool’s Crumb Hello! I am an amateur baker and have been playing around with sourdough for quite some time now. I have made great progress; however, it seems as though that every issue I troubleshoot, another one arises. A persistent issue of mine is “Fool’s Crumb,” as I have heard some call it in the sourdough communit...	Picture would be most helpful Picture would be most helpful. Enjoy!
Ischia in Canada without needing to mortgage the house I'm on the hunt for some Ischia starter flakes, the type that is generally seen as most awesome for pizza.I know sourdo.com has it as does another website, CulturesForHealth.com but the shipping of these flakes up to Canada is ridiculously expensive at $20+ S&H, on...	Have you checked King Arthur Have you checked King Arthur Flour?
need help w/ temp for sour starter Hello,Some hours ago I started a sourdough starter from Richard Bertinet's book "Crust". It uses spelt flour, organ. bread flour, warm water and some raw honey. My problem is there is nowhere in my home to keep this starter at the temp he wants which is 86F. It has been at around 73 a...	No worries, gretel It will still work, just more slowly. If this is your first starter, you will learn that starters proceed at their own pace without paying any attention to clocks. Yes, they move faster at warmer temperatures than at cooler temperatures. However, I've had success with beginning a starter at the te...
Gluten-Free Sourdough Loaf Hi there I have recently become very interested in Sourdough baking, and, being Coeliac, need to make gluten free bread. I have evolved the recipe below - the dough proofs really well and the taste is great. The only problem is that the inside of the bread has a sort of uncooked quality abo...	Gluten-Free Sourdough Loaf Center gumminess is a common problem with GF breads and there are several issues that may cause it. Previous responders had good points. I'd look at the crumb and crust to try and figure out what's out of whack, then try one thing at a time to try and fix it. There are many GF baking guides b...
Oops! I may have destroyed my starter. I have a two year old starter that has served me well. This evening I was assembling sourdough waffle batter. Since I'm a bit lactose intolerant I usually substitute rice milk for regular milk and it always works great: light, fluffy, delicious waffles. (My wife and 18 month o...	ouch, and wish I could help. ouch, and wish I could help. but, would it be possible to remove some starter from below the surface, hopefully where the rice milk didn't get into the starter much? you could use a little of that, little as a teaspoon, and build it up again. you could use that as a back up just in ca...
waste starter when it says "discard" it doesn't have to mean "throw away" ;)	In my house It never means "throw away" and those sourdough pancakes and their near cousin the waffle are the most popular use. I have even been known to expand my seed size to create more discard in order to have enough for expected guests. OldWoodenSpoon
Starter Rising too quickly? I fed the start at 9PM yesterday with 1:5:5 ratio it doubled and collapsed in 10 hours at around 32CThen i fed it again this morning at 7am with 1:10:10 starter: Flour: Water ratio, it doubled (see Pic) in 7hours at over 33C, is my starter raising too quickly? Once it doubled I have put it i...	that is a pretty warm room No I don't believe it is rising too quickly considering the high temperature of your room. In the summer our kitchen is around 22 to 24 C and winter it has a day time temperature of 19 C and night time 17 C and there is a noticeable difference in speed between winter and summer I would imagi...
"To tan small hides..." I just got a cookbook (Cooking Alaskan, by Alaskans - it was 45 cents plus shipping) for two chapters: "How to Prepare Any Fish" and "All About Sourdough". Now I proudly own recipes for squirrel and lynx. I haven't had time to read the chapter yet, but skimming the sourdough chapter showed this ...	When I saw the title I got the wrong idea! I thought you were going to tell us a little about disciplining young children. But, sourdough squirrel skin is much more exotic. Almost makes me wish I had a copy of that book, too!
Problem with low sourdough percentage breads I have tried now the third recipe from Hamelman's book (the first sourdough recipes), where the sourdough in the final dough is about 10%. Every time the dough doesn’t rise at all. My starter is very active (can double itself in less than 8 hours) and every time I make brea...	WIth only 10% leaven in your WIth only 10% leaven in your formula it will indeed take a long time to ferment. 8-12 hours sounds about right to me. Check the recipe you are following and see if he has an overnight retarding time indicated for the loaf you are attempting.Just to give you an idea……I bake with 100% whole...
Can anyone please help with my after slash deflated dough? I have followed the recipe below, but I have increased the hydration to 70% instead of 65% then I have added another stretch n fold.in bulk fermentation it doubled its size. In second proof it has doubled when I slashed it, it deflated and didnt give me any ove...	Increasing hydration might have sped up the fermentation resulting in a slightly over-proofed dough. Hard to say, but deflation after scoring is hinting strongly at over-proofing. Your comment, "In second proof it has doubled when I slashed it." is also too much rise, keep the rise closer to 3/4 or less than double...
Sour bread crust Hello,I will like to know, for how long the crust should stay Crackly/crisp?My sour bread lose is crisp crust after 12 hours, Is this supposed to happen?	Yes, this is supposed to Yes, this is supposed to happen. The crust is drier than the crumb, so with time some water will migrate to the crust softening it. It is also possible that the crust will absorb some moisture from air.
To cut the Carbs - a whole grain sour dough? I'm not diabetic or anything, but I do watch the carbs. One of my goals in the SD realm is that I can put together a whole wheat sour dough that has a low glycemic index. Cutting out the sugar and letting it ferment/proof overnight might help. Complex carbs, crumb with a lot...	whole wheat sour dough I just took a tiny loaf of 123 white whole wheat sour dough out of the oven about an hour ago. 1/2 cup soudough ( I use white whole wheat), 1/2 cup water, 1 tsp. salt, 1-1/2 cup white whole wheat. ...
starter trouble I am having trouble with my starter. I have successfully made the Tartine bread several times. Lately, when I follow the same start instructions, my starter looks limp with a liquid layer separating out on the surface. i' e tried different containers, flours, water, etc. to no avail.Any ideas would be a...	Sounds like it is too thin Try more flour and less water to thicken it up some and give more food for the culture. The poor beasties are probably starving but not dead - they are tough to kill.
Flavor... I have a question and this forum is the perfect place to ask !!!Sometimes when i make sourdough i put some fresh basil and garlic in my dough... and it is just fantastic... what would people think if i put roasted garlic instead of fresh... Would it ruin the bread.. I am afraid to try it and taste not so good...	some of my favorite bread some of my favorite bread had roasted minced garlic in it, but I could eat roasted garlic with anything, I'm a big fan. assiago also hits the spot for me. adds a nice density to the bread. hmmm, I think I know what I'm doing with my next loaf!
Converting yeasted sandwich loaf to sourdough loaf questions Hello, for the first time I am attempting to convert a favorite yeasted sandwich loaf recipe to a sourdough recipe. If possible, any pointers are welcome. That being said, I do have a few specific questions.How much starter would you use for 1000 g of flour? ...	I keep a stiff sarter (66%) in the frige and build my levains from a small amount of it - 10-20 g. My rule of thumb is to use 10% to 15% of the total flour and water amount, including the levain, as the levain amount if the dough is to be retarded for 16-20 hours. If retarded for 8-15 hours then i use 15% and if not ...
New starter still feeble Hi, I hope someone can help. This is my first attempt at a starter. It went "live" easily enough, 2-3 weeks ago, but since then, it doesn't seem to have strengthened much. I searched the forum, and the advice seems to be, feed it regularly and soon it'll take off. Mine hasn't. I feed it twice a...	It may be that your timing is It may be that your timing is a little off. At your next feed, mix as usual and put it in a clean glass jar or any container in which you can clearly see if it has any rise at all. Mark the side of the jar with the starting level of the mixture. Then wait and watch. When it has risen a...
ABED why so much starter when so little is used? Howdy! Long time lurker first time poster. I'm a teacher and bake a lot in the summer but not so much during the school year. So during the summer I'm up for ridiculousness and during the school year I switch to Leahy. Anyway, I've got my first sourdough starter in the...	no idea why, but you don't no idea why, but you don't have to keep a ton of starter on hand. I bake every 2-3 days, and that's enough time to build up my starter to what's needed for the bake just from normal feeding. I'll use about 3tbsp starter for the bake. that leaves me with about 2tbsp of starter. I'll feed...
New to this sourdough with no yeast - starter problems.. I have 2 starters started. One is 3.5 days old with small bubbles that I have been feeding with little result i.e. small bubbles. I have removed part of it and re fed it recently. The second is on day 2 with nice bubbles that I fed about 2 hours ago. What do I ...	No, the bubbles you see are probably from unwanted bacteria that will eventually lose out to the good strains and some fine yeast in a few more days. Usually on day 4 the thing looks dead with no activity as these bad bacteria are wiped out. By day 5 0r 6 things should start to pick up and the mix will start to smell ...
Cleaning/Changing of container.... Hello, I'm on day 5 of my starter, using a medium sized tubby kilner jar. I was wondering about jar cleanliness and once I have my starter ready to use is it a good idea to change to a cleaner jar ? Obviously there will be continuous feeding so is it a worry which needs no worrying ?...	Personally, I like my jars to Personally, I like my jars to look tidy. On my large tub for pancake starter I just squeegee the sides with a spatula, on my small jars I change the jar every feeding (my spatula doesn't fit in them and I maintain very small starters until I'm ready to bake). Every now and then I put the p...
Raymond Cavel's Sourdough Starter Has anyone used Raymond Calvel's process for developing a sourdough starter. It's supposed to take just 2 1/2 days to get a starter that is ready to use. I found a description of the process here: http://www.sourdoughhome.com/index.php?content=professorcalvelsstarterIf anyone has use...	Preview "The Taste of Bread" at Google books.... I have not tried Raymond Calvel's sourdough starter, but it sounds like something worth trying. It appears he does several things differently than most starters. He incubates the starter at 81-F, he uses salt and malt in the starter and he stores it in the fridge at abou...
My starter has matured and become less active My starter has been very good for six months or so, and lately, it seems to have slowed down. Not much growth at all after feeding. Is this a maturity problem? I can see it is still alive....is there something i should do differently? I have been feeding once per day wh...	Try feeding less If you're sure it's still alive, but it seems less active, maybe you should try giving it less to eat. You can either lower the ratio at your normal feeding time, or feed it less often. If you give it more food than the yeasts and LABs can eat, it will dilute the concentration of yeast and LABs in the ...
Firm Sourdough Starter - Glezer recipe I’m finally getting around to posting Maggie Glezer’s firm sourdough starter recipe. For those of you having problems with your starters you might wish to give this a try. Most people here are using batter-style starters so it might be interesting to see if there is any discussi...	Biga Mmm, interesting.I used firm starter before, but it's just a biga like the indirect method mentioned in The Artisan site. I did the long biga (12+ hours).
Starting a starter with vinegar? I heard about pineapple method. Debra said it was hard to control pH with vinegar, so what i thought -i have ph meter and could use pipette to add vinegar just enough to lower feeding solution pH to 4,0-4,5. Is that viable? Or does vinegar have a specific slowing effect on yeast, that i...	Sure Yes, of course, you can acidify your first batch of spontaneously fermenting dough with anything edible. - vinegar (pure acetic acid solution) or pure lactic acid solution- sour fruit juices (fresh apple juice, fresh grape juice), sometimes if form of grated apple or pounded grapes added to flour-water blend- yeas...
Feeding schedule: 3x a day or 2x a day? My current feeding schedule is to feed 3 times a day, at 8am, 4pm, 12am. I leave 30 grams of starter and add 60 grams of water, 40 grams of white flour and 20 grams of wheat flour. This is working pretty well for me but sometimes it's hard to keep on top of such a demanding sched...	I think that schedule is I think that schedule is crazy. You want to live your life around your starter? I keep in the refrigerator until I need it, then three feedings make it ready to go: once over night, once while I'm at work, then another overnight.
Rehydrated frozen starter Hi I wonder if someone could tell me if this is normal or not.Just after the new year I started making my own starter but in April I was due to go on a course which meant I would be washy from home for a while so I dried some in my oven and froze it. The rest I left in a pot in the fridge an...	I'm guessing the one you threw out was still good too. It is ampost impossible to kill a good starter. I have tried every way known to man but I can't kill it by leaving it untended in the fridge, freezing, drying it or freez drying it :-) Nice save.
New starter questions Hi all,I just started my first 2 cultures and they are looking good and smelling nice on day 3. (knock wood) Both are using AP white flour, how long should I wait to try and convert one over to Whole Wheat or other grain? And just for extra confidence is there an easy recipe for beginner or shoul...	After day 10 you can switch After day 10 you can switch flours. Here's a guide that I posted about creating a new starter that addresses this question. Here is a good beginner sourdough recipe that is quite forgiving (shameless self promotion) :) It does require that you use a scale. Accuracy is important, especially w...
Sourdough Starter - Loosey Goosey Approach I do not measure. I go on vacation. Here's how I started and now maintain my happy, healthy, bubbly starter. And no, I am not raising it to be independent and go to college. The starter is a productive pet. (Photo is from a Roman mosaic at the Art Institute in Chicago.)	Couldn't find any text. I clicked through your link and didn't see any content on that page.
LONGEST RETARD POSSIBLE IN THE FRIDGE... So, tailing on to an earlier post of mine... what's the longest anyone has gone with a refrigerated bulk ferment and what were the results like?	Retarding 3 days, when I made breads with S&F à la "Artisan Bread Every Day", and had no time to bake the next day. This is the time window Peter Reinhart gives. No problem, can't say there was a big difference to those I baked after 12 hours.Karin
We 3 gmas baked Sours! Leading in with Helen's amazingly beautiful loaves.... We made sourdough breads... Helen and Barb went with KA's Rustic sourdough... I went with KA extra tangy... all of us made loaves... so great minds do occasionally think alike. ;-)... No problems, just a fun and fantastic time with my sisters...	And not a sourpuss in the bunch! Those are some pretty breads, ladies.Paul
Sourdough Starter - Yeast overgrowth problem Hi,about two months ago I decided to convert my liquid starter to a dough starter following these instructions. I have waited for 2 weeks - waiting the starter to "transform itself into a pasty, gelatenous substance" - before I refed it. That pasty, gelatenous state never ha...	I believe the pasty I believe the pasty gelatinous state happens when food is exhausted. using 1tbsp starter to 2.5 chips flour, and then keeping it cool, it may take a month or more to reach that state. I think your starter is basically diluted too much. also, using a dough like consistency will slow things down ...
Adjusting bake time and temp for smaller loaves I recently bought Hamelman's bread book (2nd edition, which is printed in small, thin san-serif font on shiny white pages, and which I find barely readable). I just finished baking the hazelnut and fig levain. Recipe said to make two large loaves, bake at 460 for 15 minut...	Probing the temperature Aloha from Big Island,Invest in an inexpensive probe-type instant read thermometer (about $12). When you think the crust is looking good, poke the probe into the center of the loaf. A temperature of about 190 to 202 F. indicates the middle of the loaf is cooked.With experience, you will judge by...
Firm starter Hi. This is a picture of my firm starter after 4 refreshments and hours. It's nowhere near quadrupled. Should I wait longer without refreshing, just refresh and re-start the time count, or start over?thanks.	Was that 4 refreshments in 4 hours, or 4 hours since the 4th refreshment? If the former, the yeast and bacteria are now very diluted and will take quite a while (maybe a day or so) to bounce back. If the latter, just wait. It will be ready when it's ready.There appear to be some small bubbles in the dough. There is...
Stale Bread I baked this 75% extration multigran SD bread on July 26th and left a slice on the counter wrapped in plastic since then. Today it showed the first signs of mold. That is 17 days no mold. Yep, SD does make bread last longer.	Rye just lasts forever if you don't eat it all very quick. I had baked a quite large 100% rye with pumpkin seeds and kept it wrapped up in the fridge for about two to three weeks, just finished it yesterday with some fresh tomatoes from the garden. There was absolutely no loss of flavor, the aroma was not diminished ei...
How to make LESS sour sourdough? Let me start by noting that this is a question that was asked in the past. I read a few threads about it, but I couldn't see a definitive answer to the question.My current recipe consists of a 100% rye starter. When I bake I feed part of the starter with all purpose flour (11.7% protein...	I can't give you much solid I can't give you much solid advice, since I am always trying to increase the amount of sour, and much of what i have read is contradictory,Things that will make it less sour Use more starter ( sounds counter intuitive, but the greater the starter, the faster the rise, the less sour the loa...
Finally got to try out my new starter! The bread is wonderful, the flavor is great and the crumb has nice big holes. I'm still not sure how I got the crumb that way but I'm thinking that since I just added the liquid starter I created a very wet dough which may have helped. It was so wet even with a good amount of fo...	Beautiful baby loaf, cfiiman! Beautiful baby loaf, cfiiman! you ought to be proud.Once you are hooked on sourdough bread, there is no turning around.Best wishes,-Khalid
Sourdough starter hydration question Hi all,A few years ago, I had a starter from KA that I kept at 100% hydration, used in baking, then let fizzle out. I recently (about a month of so) built up a starter on my own and have gotten it to the point where it is vigorous and raises breads nicely. This starter, too, is at 1...	I keep a stiff 80g ww and rye starter in the fridge because of 2 reasons. I only use 20 g a week for my 1 loaf of bread on Friday and I don't want to feed it at all for 3 weeks. Plus a stiff whole grain starter kept in the fridge produces a much more sour loaf and I like sour. I can take a small amount of it and bui...
How do I get my new starter ready to bake, have I screwed up? Hi all,My 2 starters have been going for a week and are both doing wonderful. In the beginning they were not pleasant smelling and I believe the bad bacteria was causing the "action" I was seeing. Then days 3-5 nothing, just dead, then from day 6 on they h...	Just an update, don't think I Just an update, don't think I ruined anything b/c it has already doubled all the quantity that used in 2 hours! I would still like to know about any "rules" to following when increasing the size of the starter for baking though :) The starter smells wonderful too.
reviving a neglected starter. OK... I was bad. I got sent out of town for work and my starter languished in the fridge for 3 weeks.For the last week I have been trying to revive it without much luck.Have been discarding and feeding twice a day with equal weights of flour and water with no activity at all.No bubbles at ...	More than likely overfed it. Refrigerated starter comes back rather quickly and doesn't take too much abuse. What was the fridge temp by the way? Three weeks is no big deal. The trick is to start in and give the starter time to react and grow before feeding again. If you still have some of the 3 week starter, tak...
Modifying Peter Reinhart's Recipes for Sour Dough Starter I have read a couple of Reinhart's books in addition to another book on sour dough bread baking. Here is my issue. I am wedded to the idea of the slow rise using a wild yeast starter. I have a healthy starter and have made several semi-successful hearth loaves t...	Any bread can be converted to SD with or without retarding the dough in the fridge if you follow a few simple rules. No need for any commercial yeast.The levain should be between 10%-20% of the total flour and water weight. The lower the amount the more sour the bread will be and the longer it will take. Just rememb...
Newbie question about bleached flour and starter Hi everyone, totally new to baking artisan bread but I love it so far. I wanted to jump into sourdough as soon as I was having good results with baking using active dry yeast in the packets so yesterday I started my starter mix. I used Gold Medal bleached APF. I since...	Listen, if it's working for Listen, if it's working for you, then great. Of course, whole grain rye or whole grain wheat flour will more readily feed a starter, but its not an exact science.That being said, I would suggest working with unbleached flour as it provides a better flavor to the bread and imparts a more natu...
Should I create a new starter I have been baking with a starter that I made a few tears ago with great results. I have been reading about the Tartine method and was thinking of making a new starter. If I make a new starter won't I end up with a starter that is basically the same as what I have now ? Isn't the bacteria...	There's no point in making a new starter. You have the right idea to the Tartine feeding schedule with the starter you currently have and it will be just as it is meant to be.
Finally made my own sourdough starter, but disappointed with Reinhardt recipes... After several tries of making my own sourdough starter, I FINALLY made it! Yay! My first attempt was using the River Cottage Bread book formula. That didn't work. I tried it a second time too and wasted another bag of flour. My third atte...	Any recipe can be made with SD only. Just make sure it represents 10-20% of the total flour and water weight of the final dough and be prepared to be patient. But, you will be rewarded with a fine loaf of bread.
When to add the salt The Tartine recipe I used calls for 50 gramsof water and the salt to be added after the initial 30 minute bowl rise. I used to be lazy and just mix it in right away, but the last 2 times I followed the instructions and the bread turned out noticeably better. What is the reason for that?	salt. I always add my last.......... qahtan
My First Sourdough Problem - Drying Out I am making a sourdough loaf for the first time. I am using cranbo's beginner's sourdough recipe from here. I followed the instructions and it went off without a hitch until this morning. Yesterday I put the dough in the refrigerator loosely covered in a flax linen couche that ...	the dry crust can, and the dry crust can, and probably will, limit rising. same with oven spring. if not sealed in the fridge, it will dry out quick. all that cool dry air makes it go fast. try misting with water a little. if not too thick it should soften up, but I would expect a little loss of rise both before ...
My first sourdough - advice! Hi everyone,I have just made my first sourdough which has unfortunately turned out disastrously! So I have signed up here in the hope that I may be able to get some advice on where I went wrong. Apologies in advance for the long post!Just for a bit of background: I have been making bread si...	Just for comparison, here is Just for comparison, here is a photo of my nicely risen normal white bread and the flat sourdough! 5F14AA23-6A06-49C3-93BA-B8C19E9F30A6_1_105_c.jpeg 42751ECE-D1C5-4DF1-B84D-3BDE62E54902_1_105_c.jpeg
Sourdough brick wall - trying to find a way forward Hi,Looking for some inspiration to get past a brick wall with sourdough baking.I've been baking sourdough now for 10+ years, read lots of books and done courses. After a lot of experimentation I have been producing some relatively successful loaves, but have got stuck...	I haven't yet tried it myself, but... Try Susan's Norwich Sourdough (adapted from Jeffrey Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough, she says) on the Wild Yeast Blog at http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2007/07/08/my-new-favorite-sourdough/ If you read the first paragraph of her post, you can see if the description she gives is what you...
Using a food dehydrator to dry starter, feeding schedule for "sour" I'm slowly going through the forum topics and I've seen directions for drying starter, but if I use my dehydrator on its lowest setting (which is low enough to not kill enzymes in fruits according to the raw food vegans) would that be okay? Has anyone ...	If your dehydrator is a If your dehydrator is a typical machine that starts at 85 degrees or so you should be ok temperature-wise. Can the bacteria tolerate rapid dehydration? That's an entirely different question. I guess you will have to find it out yourself.
The BlackBerry Starter just looking for knowledge from those who have experience with starters created from fruit. already have a well established starter,but when poking around the garden the other day I came upon some BlackBerry bushes in 1 corner of the property. I've heard of starters created using say wild cherr...	Elderflower starter I recently made some elderflower champagne using a traditional recipe. This turned out to be a very quick and easy way to get a viable and active starter, with minimal effort/input. I know that this isn't quite a fruit based starter, but it is similar. I'm sure that there would be no need to make t...
The young leaven method I began making the country loaf recipe from Tartine following the guidelines for using leaven when it has risen by 30% and just passes the float test BUT if I allow my leaven to fully double which happens in 8 hours, the overnight time suggested in the book, my bread always bakes puffier, the cr...	younger = less sour I've seen a video where Chad Robertson says that he uses young leaven in order to downplay the sour taste that comes with older leaven.I use leaven that has been fermented for about 8 hours for my Tartine bread, and I'm pretty happy with the result. Mainly though that fits well with my baking schedu...
Why not bleached? Why such high Hyd. to begin? Why rye? I want to make a sourdough starter using Caputo 00 flour for pizza. I have seen recommendations against making a starter with bleached flour and I am fairly certain 00 is bleached. Is this a real concern that will have a negative effect on the starter's ability to...	Some possible answers 1. Pretty sure that, in general, true Italian 00 flour is not bleached. Bleach is a very effective killer of most microscopic wildlife. Almost certain that Caputo is unbleached. 2. Not at all familiar with this, but will hazard a wild "guess" that the initial high hydration is to get the fermentat...
Rising of Bagels Made Using Starter I have made bagels before but this is my first time making bagels using sourdough starter rather than commercial yeast. My dough was incredibly dense, did not rise, and did not follow the float test as I would have suspected. I used rossnroller's recipe posted here: http://www.thefr...	bagels are pretty dense and your crumb doesn't look too bad. I have gone up to 40% whole grain, multi-grain no problem and 20% rye. My mixer won't knead this dough at such low hydration. Have to knead it by hand but after a little bit it isn't too bad. I use a NY Style bagel recipe by Stan Ginsberg and it has no oi...
How To Add Starter to Recipe? If my recipe does not currently use a sourdough starter but I want to incorporate one...how to I add it without changing the hyrdration levels? And, must I also alter salt/sugar/fat/etc in the presence of a starter?	The way I do it is fairly simple I want 10-15% of the weight of the dough to be SD levain. So if my yeasted recipe has 500 g of flour and 350 g of water for 70% hydration. At 15% levain you would have 128 g of levain. This levain i would make at 70% hydration so the flour would be 128/1.7 = 75 g and the water would ...
Sour Baguette Pretty convinced that a decent sour baguette was beyond reach, I decided to give it a try anyway;.........and, I think I got lucky right out of the chute.I know a lot of bakers have been quite frustrated, so I will attempt to describe the process I used, in the hopes it may help others in their quest.Okay...	Love the aluminum foil steaming method. Just what white, thin and long bread that has to crunchy needs.Well done.
Final Sourdough proofing and size So, as I scientist I am always experimenting in theory then embark on the big experiment. So I am considering taking half of my planned sourdough bread tomorrow to make 1 boule and then a lot of smaller (80g) rolls.The dough goes through the same process of course, but will just take h...	With yeasted dough, smaller With yeasted dough, smaller batches of dough rise quicker as you'll know, due to mass with less dough to aerate. SD should not be any different. With my small dinner rolls (80-100g), final proof is a third (20 mins at least at ambient temp) that of a 1lb loaf until 1.75x.I cannot see how 80g...
How do I get more yeast in my (Tartine) starter? I recently made a Tartine loaf that blew me away. They were HUGE! Never were they that big in a year and a half of bread baking.I don't understand what I did different ?? And how come I cant duplicate that loaf again ?? Their had to be more yeast than normal because ...	anything change somewhere anything change somewhere along the line? if using white flour to feed, try adding a little whole grain flour, rye or whole wheat. that'll perk it up a bit.
No oven spring and scoring problems Hi All, first post here. I'm admittedly a newbie to the sourdough baking scene (about 4 months into it) and I consistently have 3 problems (the first two probably related). I've searched the site under "no oven spring" and "no lacey crumb" but still haven't unearthed a clue.1. Very l...	Can you post a picture of the Can you post a picture of the crumb? That is often very useful to diagnose any issues.
Retrospective Yesterday was an experimental day, as I had somewhat promised. I wanted a sourdough loaf, wanted some fruit in there too and also wanted to try some smaller rolls in addition to a loaf.I added the fruit (which I pre plumped and drained the night before to try and decrease the impact of extra hydration com...	Very nice rolls! And I'm sure the larger loaves turned out fantastic as well. Really hope to see you back soon, take care!
Hello! The Vintage Remedies Guide to Bread Hi! I just made an account! I am a beginner at sourdough making and I really love sourdough bread! I just started my starter a week ago using book The Vintage Remedies Guide to Bread by Jessie Hawkins. I don't own the book. Just got the recipe from a friend, so I am still tryi...	Hello, sourdoughlover And welcome to TFL! Glad to have you here and am looking forward to hearing about your breads.Sorry, I have no knowledge of that book.Paul
Water Bath??? I have been reading about sourdough starers and water baths and was wondering if I should use one? I do currently have my starter jar sitting in a slightly warm bowl of water. Is this a good or bad idea?According to my research, I should keep my starter at 86-93 degrees Fahrenheit. Is that correct? Has an...	success I have posted about my success with the water bath below.http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/34210/water-bath-success
second batch so I've just baked by second batch, took some pictures and I'm hoping for some feedback.the method i used involved a refrigerated starter, I removed it from the fridge, added half of my mother starter (as it was time for a feeding anyway) mixed it and left for a few hours to reach room temperature, scooped...	The wholemeal loaf, tastes The wholemeal loaf, tastes right, but doesn't look it
The perfect fruit sourdough So, I am looking to do a big final (for now) sourdough bread bake this week. I have a very good sourdough recipe that last (and the first time) I did it give some very nice airy crumb. I want to maintain and maybe even enhance that airy crumb even more, but this time around I am looking to a...	Raisins Raisins would be quite nice in a sourdough but as you add in you generally lose some of that open crumb you speak of. Not to say it becomes a brick but your adding something that interferes with the gluten structure and weights the dough down. For a fruit and nut bread I think between 10-20% is common for the...
Very hungry starter and some other beginer sour dough questions Hey everyone,I'm totally new to sour dough, i've been doing as much reading as time permits, but with all the varried opinions out there I think I need some help.I started my first starter about two weeks ago using the orange juice method described in The ...	Newbie too Hi Kylei am also new to this, but I am sure some experienced heads will come in soon with some good tips and advice. I thought I would post because sometimes a co-beginner can also give a similar experience and pointers.1. I have learnt pretty quickly that a 100% hydration starter with 1:1:1 feeding strategy...
Am I doing it right? So I've recently started a sourdough starter, and it's just over a month old now, but I have a few questions for those of you with more experience. I started it with plain wholemeal flour, it was the middle of winter (not ideal for starting a starter, I know) but since I live in a tropical climate,...	from the fridge,warm to room from the fridge,warm to room temp, and give a feeding. you'll want to use it when it reaches its peak, the time of the highest rise. you always want to use it at its peak for best results. oh, no real need to knock down a sourdough bread. as you noticed, natural yeast take a lot longer...
first sd loaf Had a stretch of 25 days w/o baking, with visitors, conference and vacation... I'm back! With new adventures into wild yeast stuff...Goldrush Sourdough Starter after 24 hrs, just enough tang but not too sour. Had my usual problem of insufficient final rise, but enough to declare moderate success.	Time Sourdough does require more time to develop the rise. Keep going!Ford
Rye Starter Not Working This is my second attempt at making a rye starter and it's not working. I purchased organic rye flour from Whole Foods (bulk bins) and using Dole pineapple juice (canned, not from concentrate). This should be very straightforward, but I have no idea why this is not working.On my first attempt, I...	The reason is impatience. Starters take a lot longer than 3-5 days.Try building one over a couple of weeks and you'll be fine.(One reason I dislike that pineapple solution is because it caters to impatience.)
levain lost lustre I have been following the Tartine instructions for many months now... with steadily improving results.Now suddenly, my levain doesn't reach the point of passing the float test any more. Both my starter culture (fed daily) and the levain itself are reliably rising in a few hours. However, now the leva...	Have you changed flours along with changing location? Are ambient temperatures different? The first could lead to a temporary decrease in activity as your starter adjusts to the new food. The second could also slow down your starter's activity if temperatures in your new home are a few degrees cooler than in your pr...
How to get more oven spring? I am looking for some advice on how to increase oven spring in my sourdough. The photo is of my most recent loaf. I used The Perfect Loaf Beginner's Sourdough Recipe, the only alteration was that I replaced the 51g rye with more whole wheat as a family member can't eat rye. I've made bread ...	Proof a little less for improved oven spring, a few stretch and folds during bulk fermentation seem to help as well. Maybe increase the fat content for a softer crust and leave the Dutch Oven on longer for thinner crust.
replacing instant yeast with SD Hi, I am sure this question was answered already but I cannot find it. wow much starter (Levain 125%) would replace 1gr. of instant yeast?Thanks Barbara	That would depend and is relative as to what you are trying to do. A 1,000g loaf of bread wet, can be risen with 1 g of levain, 50 g of water and flour made into a levain and allowed to ferment on the counter for 24 hours. Or you could use 20 g of starter and 50 g each of flour and water for the same bread but it tak...
HIGH-GLUTEN FLOUR IN STARTER For quite some time now, I have been using HIGH-GLUTEN flour in REFRESHING/FEEDING my starters. But now I read that high-gluten flour should be avoided. For sure, I do not care to retread on any of the confusing times that I have spent getting to where I am now in my sourdough baking. So, ...	I donl' see a need or benefit to feeding a starter expensive HG flour . I started to feed my levains the sifted out 22% bran and what other nots from the 78% extraction home milled flour and end up with a 100% whole grain bread in the end where the gluten cutting parts have been soaking at least 24 hours in the levai...
Firm starter question I have good results with my starter, which has a thick pancake batter consistency. What would the percent hydration be for this? I've also seen the term firm starter here quite a bit. What would firm starter look like? How thick is it? I guess I need something to compare it to without getting into...	depends on the type of flour AP wheat is rather runny but at the same hydration WW is firm. Have you looked at any starter videos? As the starter ferments it does get "thinner."With no bread math... if you double the amount of flour to water volume wise, you come out about even in weight. or 100% hydration. roughl...
First Couple Sourdoughs I gave my sourdough starter it's first two loaves over the last two days and both sets were plagued with similar issues. My first loaf was incredibly wet. It is possible that I mis-weighed the ingrediants but the dough was more of a puddle, even after letting it rise for about 3 hours (which it ...	How about some more info? Like the recipe, for instance, or temperatures in your kitchen and oven, or how you mixed and kneaded and shaped the dough, or the kind of flour you used, etc. better information will lead to a better diagnosis and less guessing.Paul
Sourdough rye bread and molcajete I posted about my first attempt to make sourdough rye bread following the recipe in Peter Reinhart's Artisan Bread Every Day. I thought the rye flavor was somewhat weak. Someone advised grinding up some dry rye bread and adding the crumbs to my next batch of rye dough. (In addition to ...	In Mexico a mano; a rounded cylindrical shaped stone held in two hands, is rubbed on a long flattish stone called; a metate, to grind all kinds of seeds, grains, chilies, corn and nuts. The worlds first food processor. An interesting, fun and historical way to make all kinds of great stuff like.... moles which uses m...
new starter & loaf (re flat starter...) So last night I restarted my starters; one with the old method(left) and one with the method suggested by Mini Oven(right).As you can see, thr new method is MUCH better! I believe it probably topped it's proof time somewhere between 4-5 a.m. since this is what I woke to at 5:30. ...	Nice job. That wonderful Nice job. That wonderful browning indicates a nice complete fermentation. If you want a less dense, more open texture, you'll need to increase the hydration and resist the temptation to add additional flour to make the dough less sticky. Also consider using stretch-and-folds (in lieu of kneadin...
Thirsty Grains? Normally my starter is around 60% whole grain and 40% white flour, then started using a rye starter with this current batch and the dough is much much stickier. My recipe is 100% flour 66% water 12% starter (equal parts water & grain) and 3% salt. Again the whole wheat/bread flour starter i get a very w...	Rye... the sticky maker yes, sounds normal. Salt is too high for me, I go max 2%. Autolyse the wheat flour with the water before adding the starter might help.
Advice for first sourdough bake I just successfully grew my first starter. It is currently in the fridge waiting for me to bake with it for the first time. The last time I fed it it doubled in under four hours @ 76F. I used to bake every Wednesday after work when I used yeast, but I understand that I will probably ha...	My schedule Morning of day before I bake (say, Tuesday). Remove starter from refrigerator take 3.5 oz. of starter mix in 3.5 oz. each of water and AP flour. (go to work)Evening of day before baking (still Tuesday) Add 10.5 oz. each of AP flour & water. Mix well, remove excess starter and place it in the refrigerat...
Types of "Cultures" ie Starters / Levains etc I have two students this coming year that want to specialize in breads, which is not a problem.We then came to a discussion of sours, starters, levains etc. They wanted to become more familiar with them, again not a problem. What is turning into a problem is the discussion ...	Technically you only need one Technically you only need one, because it is relatively easy to create another out of your main starter. I do a good amount of whole grain baking, so I keep a wheat starter and a rye starter on hand. The rye starter is nice because of the extra activity it gives the levain. I use my rye st...
flat starter & sticky dough after proofing OK, I am new at sourdough, but have been baking many years. I have a wonderfully sour starter that bubbles real busy; however it does not expand more than 2x its volume with regular 12 hour feedings. I started with a 1-1 WW & water recipe and let the natural yeasts develop. It...	I am not in anyway an expert, but... here are some ideas. I think it would help me, and anyone else who wants to help to have a little more info. Such as what the starter ratio is in the 2-1 flour water feeding? You could be starving the starter and thats why it is flat. I did that for a long time with mine and my loav...
Always a double ear, why? HI Friends, I've been SD baking for a little over a year and have learned so much from this forum, Kristen Dennis, Trevor Wilson, books by Reinhart and Forkish, etc. I have used Kristen Dennis' basic sourdough recipe many times. It seems no matter what variable I tweak, I almost always get a d...	Where did you score the loaf, Where did you score the loaf, in the center or to the side? Just a guess - maybe try scoring more to the side next time?Great looking bread though!
Sourdough baking article I think that this article encapsulates why I like baking sourdough breads.	A very nice read on a hot Sunday morning. Thanks for the link
Proper Hydration I currently have a rye sourdough starter and a regular Pain au Levain going, just a couple days in for both of them. I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not they are too dry or not. I actually added about a teaspoon of water to my Pain au Levain because it was very dry and crumbly and I thought ...	New starters are usually 100 New starters are usually 100% hydration, at least that's where most start out at. at a couple days in, you probably want to thin it out a bit. more like a thick pancake batter at this stage. once it gets going and rising regularly thicken it up if you want to go longer between feedings. I b...
Unsour Sourdough My sourdough bread does not have any sourness. I need help.I use Carl's starter, have been for a number of years, same one. Works great except can it be the cause of unsour bread? The following is what I do, loosely based on the Tartine book.I create a mix to feed the starter (the feed mix) with 8 p...	I've never been able to get much any sour of any sour using the Tartine starter/ levain method. It is all waste and no sour..... no matter what feed I use.Now it build levains using a 3 cold stiff starter that has been in the fridge for 3 days and build from that at 86F without throwing anything away. I refrigerate ...
transitioning to AP flour Hi! I have made and been keeping my starter alive with Whole Wheat flour, but would like to start feeding it AP instead (I plan to make mostly white breads). I fed it white a few times and it stayed alive but was expanding a lot less/slower, so I ended up just going back to wheat. Is there a...	well, I've never switched well, I've never switched food like this, but I can say it's not unusual for our friends to take a little time getting used to something new. since the buggers really only have 2 major variables, what they eat, and their environment, a little change can make a bit of a difference. I do bel...
What is wrong with my crust?? Ok, sorry about constantly asking questions here...I feel bad with the constant questions and never answering anything! But I am hoping for help with this "problem". I am starting to get my sourdough bread almost to where I am almost starting to be happy with it...except the appearance of ...	A weird light crust can usually be corrected pretty easily. Dough at 42 F for 20 odd hours is pretty long. I do 36 F for 18 hours and that is stretching it in the summer. When the bread is out of sugar is is pale. In order for the labs and yeast not to run out of food you can put some white malt in the mix. The a...
Multigrain sourdough issues I am using a sourdough recipe from a book called "Crust" that seems to be a good basic recipe that I have modified. 200g white flour, 600 g whole wheat, it calls for 680 g water, 20 g salt. I like a European style multigrain bread and I add a cup of rye berries (boiled to soften, then cooled...	How are you shaping? Are the How are you shaping? Are the loaves freeformed or panned? I have had better success panning these kinds of loaves in a standard loaf pan and baking them that way. 85% hydration is high but not that high, especially when you have so much whole wheat. Sourdoughs naturally get wetter/more slac...
Fridge Proofing? Too warm or not to warm? After 8-10 loaves I have been getting some consistent results following the Tartine recipe closely. The book mentions a possible 8-12 hour final rise in the fridge. I decided to try this as it works better with a Fri into Sat schedule for me. Followed all the steps, passed the ...	fridge proofing I follow the same Tartine formula and my schedule sounds just like yours. I don't even take my proofed loaves out of the refrigerator until the oven is completely preheated. Then I score and slide into the cast iron combo cooker, and it works beautifully. This was not always the case, and in the begi...
Various Questions about crust, "layers", acidity, and more! Hey all, I’ve been plugging away with my bread baking, altering recipes and times to try and see what I end up with. It’s like chemistry lab with no grade! I have not ended up with a horrible loaf yet, but I’ve seen a few interesting things in my loaves, and...	Crackly bubbles are most Crackly bubbles are most related to long cold fermentation. They are perhaps also related to higher hydration and long fermentation (cold or not). I also believe they are related to dough strength and shaping. Layers do indeed have to do with a skin forming on your loaf during shaping, extra fl...
First EVER Sourdough bread So here's the result of my first ever sourdough bread baking session and only the second time I have ever made bread.I have an immature (2 weeks old), but very active organic Rye starter that as you can see is very bubbly and happy after a good feeding session. These are 2 basic white sourdo...	Hi Andy, Successful indeed Hi Andy, Successful indeed for a first bake! happy baking.. evon
Dried sourdough starter One of my coworkers has expressed interest in my sourdough breads and is thinking about starting to make some herself. I offered to share my starter with her and she is pretty enthusiastic. She is moving soon so I dried some of it, thinking it would be a lot easier, and more convenient, for her ...	How I revive a dried sourdough starter ... Here is my method of reviving a dried sourdough starter ...1/2 tsp Dried Sourdough Starter1 Tbsp warm water about 115°F1 Tbsp FlourDirections:Soak ½ tsp. dried starter in 1 Tbsp. lukewarm purified or spring water for a few minutes to soften.Stir in 1 Tbsp. all-purpose flour, c...
Concerns about levain density I've been working with this starter for nearly a year now, 50/50 whole wheat/unbleached white bread flour at 100% hydration, and it reliably doubles over the course of about 8 hours. The build in the photo is on day four of twice-daily feedings, and was photographed right at the 8 hour mar...	I gleaned a lot from a paper I gleaned a lot from a paper by Doc.Dough. Methods and Rationale for Sourdough Starter Maintenance and Elaboration RevF.pdf (dropbox.com)Hope this helps.
Bulking up my starter Hi Everyone.New user and baker of bread too. Have actually never done it before, but hoping to get some experience quickly.Sourdough. I have made myself a wonderful rye starter that looks and smells great. I want to make my first dough and despite reading A LOT about making a starter, I am a littl...	Feeding & Building Most bakers feed their starter in the ratios of starter:water:flour :: 1:1:1 or maybe ::1:2:2. I do not know how old your starter is, but it should be at least two weeks old for a start, and it will take about 4 weeks before it becomes mature.Let's assume that you do have 60 g of mature starter and ...
Sourdough rye I baked my first sourdough rye loaves yesterday, using the recipe from Peter Reinhart's Artisan Bread Every Day. I didn't have caraway, nigella, or orange oil, so just made plain loaves. The rye percentage in that recipe is something like 22%. The bread wouldn't be a heavy rye, but it does have more than ...	they say flavor increases a they say flavor increases a bit when a loaf has cooled completely. some also say the best flavor it's the next day, and I would agree. the flavors in the crust seem to permeate the rest of the loaf after a day or so. I love bread, and go through half a loaf myself the same day it's baked ...
Help Flat Ok I started a starter a couple of weeks ago, "George" was doing very good a few days ago more than doubling, but now not even a quater, he is rising maybe a half inch above the mark on the jar. George is a rye starter, home ground with filtered water. I really want to make bread but I am afraid George isn't...	Keeping Starter I keep my starters in the refrigerator and refresh them the day before I want to make bread. I keep the starters at 100% hydration, whereas you are close to 200% hydration and may be starving George. Try using the ratio of 1:1:1 :: starter:water: flour BY WEIGHT. A cup of sifted flour weighs about 4....
Sourdough article in the UK Guardian Newspaper This may be of interesthttp://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/22/sourdough-bread-good-for-you	Thanks!! Thanks for posting that. I'm in the middle of hand mixing 24 lbs. of sourdough for baking tomorrow, and it's nice to read that my efforts are worth it!

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