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Starter tempuratures I noticed an interesting behaviour with a couple jars of my starters within the past week or so. About a week ago, I had started two new jars of starter because I had accidentally mis-weighed starter for a bread recipe and had to use all of it. Throughout the week, I had noticed that the starter ne...	Yes, starters can generate heat. But it seems to be more noticeable in vat quantities. In small jars, it might be your concentration that is warming your hands. Starters do change aromas as they mature, many times as fruit or nuts or cheese depending on your own memory catalog of smells. It is good to know your star...
Lot's of sour dough questions Hello everyone, This is my first post in a long time. I attempted to make sour dough loafs last year but it always gave a really sharp acidic taste that I really disliked. I decided to give it another shot . So I'm attempting to make some basic whole wheat loaves. 1) What is the minmium ...	Overall process Hi I'm really not sure your idea of using a long cold ferment is going to help you produce what you want...ie. a less acidic dough. You have to produce an active starter which is not too acidic. From there you have to produce a dough which can ferment well with a relatively small amount of levain in t...
Advice needed for a better crumb For some time I've been trying to bake breads with a bit higher hydration and a more open crumb. Each attempt I did that was over 68% hydration (20% whole wheat) failed miserably (flat breads). Then finally I realised my flour might not be up to it. I was using a bread flour that had ab...	Appearance Sorry, I can't help with your breadmaking problem because, as you say, your thread looks bad and is difficult to read!Two thoughts:1) You have no paragraphs. Text needs to be split up into paragraphs to make it presentable. A little intuition should help you determine paragraph breaks. Also make sure you hav...
Rye starter and other experiements I made 2 starters - one, "Manuel's" starter (rye based) from the Laurel cookbook; the other - based on the same proportions but as follows: 1/2 tsp yogurt (instead of milk), 1 cup ww flour, 1/2 cup bread flour, a granule (which is really more like 6-10 pieces...) of yeast. I realise t...	addendum The starters both, obviously, included equal parts water to the flour - ie: 1.5 cups total flour and 1.5 cups water...
Are bubbles a good sign of a good starter? I have a 100% rye starter that i keep at a mashed potatoes consistency, when i feed it, it seems to form a lot of small bubbles against the glass jar. Than within 4-6 hours there are fewer bubbles, but they are a lot bigger ( it also doubled in size) sndbrian	Sounds like a healthy starter Sounds like a healthy starter to me!
Refrigerator versus room temperature ferment Good morning - After noticing that different sourdough recipes call for different fermentation routines -- some with a combination of room temp and cold fermentation and others room temp only -- I've been experimenting with the resulting taste of different methods. 1. Under...	Just An Observation I have never found that long fermentation at room temperature increases the "sour" characteristics of my sourdough. Long fermentation does improve the overall flavor so I prefer a cooler fermentation temperature over a longer period of time. I have come to prefer the stretch and fold method of hand...
sekowa backferment Hello. Have anybody ever used sekowa backferment on his/her loafs? Is a special ferment made out of cereal, peas, and honey. I think the product is german but I am not sure of it. It is related to biodynamic agriculture and baking. I write you because I am trying these days to make one of my own. I...	reasons for my interest in the backferment Thank you for your comments, Beabarba! I understand your point of view. Here you are some of the reasons for my interest in the backferment: 1. The last year I have been living a kind of nomadic life across some places in europe. I tasted different organic breads. The on...
Sourdough like gum Hi, I used to be able to make good sourdough bread, recently though whenever I make the dough I will develop the gluten, I can make a windowpane, in a mater of hours the dough turnes into the consistancy of gum it is like the gluten has dissolved. I try baking th bread and it turnes out heavy and den...	Without more info, it may be difficult We don't have a clear picture of what your dough is like, what hydration it's at, how long it was proofing before it collapsed and so forth. Don't hesitate to supply details when you need help troubleshooting something, especially online. So let us know what the recipe was, what t...
When to bake? Did a test bake today from a sample starter I'm playing with. The plan was to let it proof at room temperature for about 15 to 18 hours. However, by 12 hours it had clearly peaked (this is an aggressive starter). So I shaped my loaf with the plan of letting it rise again for about 2 to 3 hours, then bake....	Poking You learned a painful but instructive lesson- watch the dough not the clock. To test dough for proofness, just poke it lightly with a finger - about as deep as the first finger joint. If it springs completely back it's underproofed and needs more time. If it springs about halfway back, leaving an indentation ...
Starter won't grow I have been feeding my starter and it just won't grow. It gets all bubbly, has an interesting smell (a bit like nail polish remover), and it looks healthy. It just won't grow. I tried using rye flour and still nothing more than bubbles. I have been feeding with a 1:1:1 ration by weight. I know it is ...	Patience Two things come to mind. First, are you leaving some venting space between the container and the lid to allow excess CO2 to "boil" off? As the CO2 increases, so does the internal pressure in the container and it can sometimes get strong enough to interfere with growth of the starter's mass. Second, what temp...
Has anybody used old rye bread to feed your starter? Just wondering-I read about it on a German blog. I have (sadly) a whole bunch of rye bread that just wasn't quite up to par that I would be happy to use to feed my starter. The blog I was reading also mentioned that using old bread also makes the starter very sour-yi...	How about using the bread as altus? or old bread in new bread? Haven't heard it fed to starters yet, what % is used? Twice as much as flour? Mini
Converting Recipes to Starter I need some advice. I'm planning to bake two recipes which I've baked several times but this time convert both to starter only. The first is the whole wheat sandwich bread from Peter Rinehart's Whole grains book. He says to use 14oz of starter instead of the biga when converting. The secon...	Patience First, make sure that your starter is active....This is one of the biggest mistakes I made when I stopped using yeast. The second mistake I made was to think that I had to reduce the flour in the recipe to account for the flour in my starter. Don't change the flour proportions. Consider the starter separatel...
Made a new culture. Noticing it grows fast and doesn't slow in the fridge much either. Anyone else have barm's that keep on growing in the cold. I refreshed 60 grams of starter this morning with 60g of flour and 60g of water. After one hour I stuck it in the fridge and then tonight it looks doubled.	fridge culture I don't feed my culture in the fridge (I'm "counter-culture"), but I do store my discards there short term, and i can say they constantly percolate along, without food. I'm guessing, but I think you've got a population that "comes alive" when the food shows up. Which is good!
Super Sourdough James Morton book - The Work Cycle Hello everyone, I am a keen beginner baker and just bought the book from James Morton Super Sourdough. I will try the main recipe for Pain au Levain with the work schedule from page 73. It says on the first step: "mix half the recipe's flour and water, make a levain. M...	verbal shortcuts. Welcome to TFL!Many cookbook authors explain their procedures early on in their books, and don't repeat the nitty-gritty basics for each recipe.But, many new cooks jump right in to a particular recipe without first reading the earlier "how to" chapters.I don't have that book, but I would suspect that ...
More Norwich Sourdough Used the recipe from Susan's Wild Yeast blog. What a great recipe and an awesome tasting bread. I, like everyone else, changed a couple of things up. For one, I don't own a stand mixer so it was mixed by hand. I also had some time restraints so the bulk fermentation was 1 1/2 hours at room temper...	Yummy!! Yummy!!
Glycemic index with sourdough plus commercial yeast I have a recipe that uses a teaspoon of instant yeast in addition to the starter. Will I still get the same lower glycemic index characteristic of sourdoughs?	read Neal Barnard Sounds like you might be concerned with diabetes. Here's a great book that explains a lot about food: http://www.nealbarnard.org/diabetes_book.htm
Sweet, Creamy smelling rye starter Got a rye starter started using pineapple juice method. It seems to be rising normally and what not, but it doesnt really smell sour. It smells sort of creamy and sweet like a banana. NOT really banana-y but very reminescent of it. Any one have a similar smelling starter?	"Banana smell starter" into search box, out came http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14751/what-does-your-sourdough-starter-smell
This was scary I started building my first sourdough starter on Friday night. I used a simple 100%hydration method, 1 cup KA white whole wheat flour and 1 cup water. On Saturday morning I noticed that I was already getting activity, nice bubbly surface, slight sour smell. I removed haf of it and fed the starter with ...	I too have noticed an I too have noticed an off-aroma (like salt-rising bread dough) when I started with whole-wheat flour and water alone. Debra Wink discovered this was due to a strain of bacteria called leuconostoc that seems to be more prevalent in flour now than it was formerly. This bacterium is self-destructi...
Unrefrigerated starter lost rising power Pardon the long story, but 15 years ago or so my sourdough starter (1848 + San Francisco mixed) suddenly developed enough rising strength that I stopped adding commercial yeast, and since then I have been making great bread. I refresh the started over night with 3 C water and 3...	Revive starter I've seen topics on here and other places on reviving the starter. I remember on sourdoughhome.com a page called reviving the starter or some such topic. He goes into great detail about how to bring your starter back to life. I think that since your starter still shows signs of life all is not lost. It j...
Susans Norwich sourdough bread I recently baked Susan's wonderful Norwich bread trying to follow her recipe as closley as possible with two exceptions. I used a starter (100%) made with whole wheat flour as that is what I have been using lately and I also made two batards using brotforms, one with 64 oz (volume) capaci...	My personal experience This recipe I've used exclusively, so I have some experience with the dough. I am using Susans recipe for starter and my house temp is higher than yours (approx 80 due to all the cooking I do). This is a very wet dough and so it will be very slack (throughout the entire process). I haven't used a...
Strange Behavior of a young starter Okay so i mixed up a starter with KA White whole wheat and pineapple juice. I let it sit for 2 days at around 69-72 degrees. I ran out of whole wheat and fed the starter some whole grain rye flour by Hodgson Mill, and within a few hours (4) it doubled. The starter before the feed rye...	More (wild) yeasts on/in the More (wild) yeasts on/in the rye. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10192/starting-starter-sourdough-101
Bread Flour vs All-Purpose Flour I’ve been working since September to produce my own “perfect” sourdough bread. Three weeks ago I was pretty much there, but you know, I keep tweaking, trying to make it more sour, and the recipe more reliable. Well, my tweak this time was changing flour. I’d been using KA Bread flour, b...	BF V: AP Flour Peggy, You have a lot of variables going on in your build. You are using a starter in a fairly large percentage, there is also another pre fermented amount, the BF and AP flours with the addition of rye. I would call that a complicated formula. I would suggest that you simplify the component mix first so...
Thank you to everyone (regardless if you directly helped or didn't at all) Thank you, she says.. why? After various threads, some I posted and some I just directly read, it seems I have finally successfully made my first real loaf of Sourdough in my clay baker! Hurray! In other threads I pointed out what I was doing ...	(Won't let me edit my post (Won't let me edit my post to insert there)
Fitting baking into routine I would love to be a full-time baker. Absolutely and without a doubt. Unfortunately I'm not. It turns out that I've got a corporate job and am out of the house from 7am to about 7-8pm each day during the week. I am always baking on the weekend and its great having fresh sourdough for the f...	How about "Artisan Bread in 5 min a day?" And they have another book "Healthy Bread in 5 min a day" Here is the website: http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/ Do a search here-there was a lot of discussion when they came out.
Underfermented or just right? Hello, bakers!Since my last post I was continuously working my way towards more open crumb. My last two bakes were by Kristen Dennis basic open crumb sourdough recipe. Fist one (at 80% hydration) was hopelessly overfermented (I didn't use aliquot jar ) and turned out flat and dull. With se...	Beautiful! So many bakers Beautiful! So many bakers would be over the moon with such bread.I don't think this is underfermentation, just a little wild crumb, probably need to pat the dough just a bit more during shaping, like you suggest.
Drying Sourdough Castoffs Can anyone tell me the best way to dry my sourdough castoffs and then give instructions to my friends to rehydrate them? I have friends in other parts of the country who have asked me to share but sending the actual wet stuff seems like it could be a problem as the weather gets warmer.	drying and re-hydrating or reviving starters http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/13199/drying-your-starter
I love the smell of leaven in the morning. I started my own natural leaven and now after over a week it doing quite well. I refresh it in the morning and the evening so it's growing twelve hours at a pop. It seems to be getting a better and better smell. Question? Is twelve hours between replenishments too much?	Sounds about good It really depends on the vigor of your starter, but every 12 hours should be fine. Some people feed theirs 3 times a day. I go for about 2 times a day also. SndBrian
Ignorant starter question Hi, All. I am relatively new to breadbaking. I have a starter that is great for baking bread w/no extra yeast (but doesn't taste very sour) but I hate 'feeding' it because it seems like such a waste of flour and good starter. I just made strawberry soda with yeast, sugar, water and strawber...	Yes, but it is not recommended When you feed your starter flour it breaks it down to starches than sugar, which is a slow process. If you feed it sugar it will immediately eat it and demand more food. This will probably lead to starving and a dead starter. Keep your starter in the fridge if you do not want to feed it ...
New to starters with a question Hello everyone! I am new here and I have a question regarding the starter I have tried to start... I followed the instructions found in this thread: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10251/starting-starter-sourdough-101-tutorial It took three days before I was ready to do the Day 4 ad...	I'm no expert, but I can I'm no expert, but I can share my limited experience with you. On day three I read it as, you fed the starter three times with the same amounts each time, but did not discard any excess. This in effect means that you are feeding a bigger and bigger starter with proportionaly less food. It sound...
Hrm, am I doing this wrong? I think I'm having some problems fridging my sourdough (not the starter, but actual dough). Some recipes have a single rise, some have a double rise. Double rise, it seems to be suggested that you fridge after the first rise and do the second rise after you pull it out. It seems some recipes...	I keep my fridge very cold I keep my fridge very cold and I get a slow rise with commercial yeast but my strain of wild yeast has very low activity in the fridge. Greg R
Radical approach Hello All, Wanting the convenience of the "no knead" approach, but still wanting the flavor of sourdough, I've been trying a radical approach that seems to be working well. I have tried it on two recipes- yesterday, Peter Reinhart's Struan Bread from The Baker's Apprentice. I add 1 C of 100% hydration ...	Yes, I've been toying with Yes, I've been toying with something like for some time now. IIRC the ABI5M book even reccomends it. My method is to save a few hundred grams of the basic ABI5M dough from each batch and incorporate it into the next.
Neutral Smelling starter I got a starterter started and the smell is pretty neutral. Sometimes if i get a good whiff i smell pineapple juice and a ever so slight yeast smell. It rises great, I just want to know if all things are going right. It is about 5 days old.	Things are going right It sounds perfect. The pineappley aroma will fade away soon, and your starter will become more fragrant within a few weeks. Welcome to sourdough :-) -dw
WHat kind should i keep? I am making a miche and that is a 50% White and 50% white whole wheat miche. My question is what sort of starter should i keep? A 100% white one? A 100% white whole wheat? Or a 50% each starter? I remember reading something on Farine about Gerard, and he feeds his levain with the same build he ...	Depends on how much of a "Purist" you wanna be Some people keep one of each and never let them even see each other. Others keep one (of either type) and when needed, switch it up over a few feeds to the other type. It doesn't take a lot to flip a starter from one to the other and have the original flour basically turne...
Stinky Starter Okay. I know people are asking about how the starter should smell all the time, but I'm gonna ask again anyway. My starter is 4 days old and it is already really vigorous. I started it with just fresh ground whole wheat flour and water. When you feed it it really goes crazy rising. It almost exploded out...	I would keep the starter out I would keep the starter out of the fridge. Keep your quantity small to avoid wasting too much flour with feeds and persevere a bit longer. What quantities of flour and water are you using?
Why has starter risen again (after falling once)? Good Friday evening, everyone! I'm the "hybrid" starter lady, in case anyone remembers me from my asking about a starter that was a combo of 6-10 different starters (it's still going strong, still have lots of it, it makes wonderful pancakes, but I haven't gotten up th...	Stirring distributes- You're distributing more food for the yeast so that they get another feeding everytime that you stir. At least thats what I gather from your explanation. If you'd like to become less of a slave to your starter I'd recommend that you go to a 50-60% starter. It looks to me as if your starter is prob...
How to fix a proteolytic starter? Help Hello everybody,First time posting on here. Like many i've got into baking to the point of obsession over lockdown. Things were generally getting better and better but my last 4 batches of dough have got significantly worse and I've noticed that my starter has become proteolytic. ...	Standard procedure for a Standard procedure for a wonky starter is a little starter, a lot of food, warmth and time, throw in stirring often and you're good to go. When it starts reacting normally again it should be good. Enjoy!
Sourdough Bread For my first try at sourdough, I used the recipe from http://www.io.com/~sjohn/sour.htm . I began the starter on Tuesday, fed it on Wednesday, and on Thursday morning it showed the signs of being ready. I tried to make the attached bread recipe on Friday, but it did not rise hardly at all and when it ...	It wasn't ready A new starter will generally be active for a couple days, then peter out, then become active again. I think it is different types of bacteria grow then die off, then the good ones start to flourish. Try feeding it for like a week or more before using it again and see what happens. Hopefully better re...
lumpy loaf with my last couple of sourdoughs, i've been having that thing happen where during the final proof, there is separation so, technically, there is no need to slash, and further, it makes the loaf somewhat lumpy. what am i doing wrong?	Recipe? Separation of the dough? Perhaps if you post the recipe you are using, the problem can be figured out.
Sourdough Baker In The Grand Canyon After three days of hiking we made it to Hance Rapids and a very nice camp. Several hours later rafting party arrived and being as cold and tired as we were asked to share the spot. Later that night I met Charlie a truly dedicated baker (and rafter) who was floating the river and had...	Awesome. Great story. Hope to hear the outcome.
Starter questions from a total newbie I just finished reading the posts in this forum about starters. I did not by all means read all of them but I did get a general idea about starters. Now that I have a better idea of what starter is and how it works I've got questions. One very helpful thread says that at one poi...	Starter Questions 1. The size of the container will depend on the largest amount you plan to use at one time plus room for extra plus room for expansion. I use a glass pint or quart container for starter that I don't plan to use anytime soon, though I pull it out for a weekly discard and feeding. The starter I use the ...
Starter diagnosis Hello everyone - this is my first post on a forum ever - not entirely sure of the etiquette so your patience is appreciated. I'm trying to figure out whether my starter has the right bacteria present and is active enough. You see, I've made about half a dozen batches of loaves from this starter but ...	I've never... had a starter smell like vomit. David G.
Worth keeping a starter? I built up a starter from scratch, made a loaf with it, then just let it sit in my fridge thinking I would use it and then didn't. I didn't feed it, pretty much just let it sit refrigerated for about a month. I realize that to keep a healthy starter you must feed it and stay on top of the maint...	Sure. I too do not bake more Sure. I too do not bake more than once a month due to various things such as school, etc etc. What I did is make a firm starter and let it hang out in the fridge. It has been about 2 weeks since I last baked a loaf of sourdough and fed the starter and it has yet to start creating hooch.
Starter went slack and won't get up! Man, have you heard this one beore, or what? :) The same starter I've been using for months just up and failed. It was nice and airy, frothy and bubbly.. and then all of a sudden, psshhtt! It's more like yoghurt than starter. It's just flat. It consumes some flour, I believe, cause ...	Details? How do you feed your starter and what do you feed it with? If you give us more details maybe some of us can help? Al
? about P. Reinhart's San Fran sourdough recipe Hi all, I'm a newbie who has been making Peter Reinhart's basic San Fran sourdough recipe for a few weeks. I am REALLY pleased with it, and impressed that I can make such a tasty loaf. But I have two questions about it ... 1) Can I make the starter dough (allowing it to...	If the bread is opening up a If the bread is opening up a whole lot, perhaps you are under proofing the loaf and it should wait a bit longer before placing in the oven to bake. It is also hard to tell since I do not know how you are scoring your bread as well. As for the first part, I can not help since I do not know t...
Is my sour dough starter, sour dough starter? I've had my starter for 3 months now, and it makes bread rise nicely. It will double after a feeding in 4 hours, but the smell is slightly acidic, but not really. I just wanted to know if i had the right sort of beasties inside my starter. (it's a white starter) I am afraid...	I doubt that your bacteria I doubt that your bacteria worries are valid. At what temperature do you keep your starter? How often do you feed it? How much do you feed it? What flour are you using? All these questions need to be answered along with any other pertinent information in order to give a truly informed opi...
What caused SD English muffins & crumpets to have a grey, brown discoloration? Hello, I'm very new to the Fresh Loaf site. I have a question that I was hoping one of you might be able to help me with. Every time that I make Sourdough English muffins or Crumpets, after the items cool, they get a greyish dark brown dis...	I read someplace that I read someplace that overworking the dough can cause that. I have the same problem. I have not tried making them since I read that was the problem.
I asked ChatGPT is Peter Reinhart's whole wheat bread recipe close to sourdough?I'm sharing its reply here as I'm curious to know what members here think: Peter Reinhart's whole wheat bread recipe is not inherently a sourdough recipe. However, with certain modifications and techniques, you can adapt it to have a more s...	ChatGPT I am sure that baking is a hands on business, the knowledge comes from the baking itself, and chatGPT never baked a loaf in its life. Maybe you and chatGPT were referring to different breads when chatting about "PR's whole wheat bread" but Peter's whole wheal sandwich bread formula from Peter Reinhart’s Whole ...
Discarding Sourdough Starter - No Discard Method Help Some questions regarding Sourdough Starter No Discard method pleaseI would be grateful if the FLteam can help answer some questions for meAm a aware that if we follow the no discard method we will have lots of Starter.I would like to make my starter with Rye flour +...	A brand-new starter from scratch Hello, Breadmaking! I'm not sure whether or not you already have a stable starter on hand or if you are still in the process of making one. Assuming you are still making one, you need to wait until you have a stable starter before you can get it on a no-discard maintenance plan. A brand...
Sourdough On My Kettle This is my 5th SD loaf on my weber kettle. Sometimes its hard to control the heat down here in SW, FL. Today i got 447* Turned out good again.	how to prevent burning underside? Great idea! I hope you don't mind my questions.What set-up or steps do you take to prevent burning the underside of the loaf?No coals directly under the dutch oven?Some kind of diverter or shield under the dutch oven?What is the distance from the top of the coals to the outside bottom...
Can a whole wheat starter be used in French Bread? I have recently been looking through books on whole grain breads. I have yet to see any information on a whole wheat french bread and am wondering if it is because of the unique qualities of this type of bread. I really have two questions: 1) Is there a whole wheat Fr...	Whole wheat French bread Hi, kimes. Whole wheat bread is certainly made in France. It is called "pain complet." A Google search on "pain complet" will find many recipes. This search will yield web sites in French, however. Google Translate will give you interesting translations, if you don't read French, but you can pr...
Frightening texture Frightening texture. I am not talking about cottage cheese, nor tapioca pudding, but rather the 100% whole wheat sourdough bread that has been having a good old time disgusting me with its texture of late. I have used the tactics that I have found here on the Fresh Loaf site- stretch and folds at 30...	Over working the dough It's possible that you are working the dough too hard. Overdensity can be a matter of the gluten strands breaking down under too much action and 1) interfering the the action of the yeast or 2) being unable to respond to the CO2 due to their loss of structure. Peter Reinhart has a fab recipe fo...
Good sourdough cookbook? Can people recommend their favorite sourdough cookbooks? I'm looking for books that include recipes for cookies, cakes, and other stuff that I can experiment with. Thanks!	Nancy Silverton My go to book for sourdough is "Nancy Silverton's Breads from La Brea Bakery". Every recipe in the book is made with a wild yeast starter and I have yet to make anything in the book that didn't turn out wonderfully. Truthfully, I do treat Oscar (my 18 month old starter; he's messy) quite a bit less lovi...
Science and sourdough New bacteria strain points the way toward 'super sourdough' bread. Read it and weep. Jeremy	according to wikipedia according to wikipedia dextrans may cause rare but very serious health concerns. Is it true? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextran
recipes use yeast :( I was looking at sourdough recipes in my notebooks and noticed many of them have yeast in them. I read further and realized the recipes that use yeast were all meant to be totally made in a bread machine. At this point I'm giving my bread machine a rest until I feel more comfortable making sourdoug...	I don't see why not I never use commercial yeast in my SD sandwich bread. And I am pretty sure you can make any SD bread without it. If you have a particular recipe in mind, you can post it here and let some of the more experienced bakers tell you if it can be done or not. We love to learn and we are always willing...
Un-Sour Starter Alright, So I went to Wegmans today to get a loaf of sourdough bread to see what it should taste like. The loaf was ok with that unique sour flavor. Well when i first started my starter it had a similar sour flavor, but over time it has turned into a very "smooth" tasting starter. The smoothness probabl...	Mix your starter to a thicker Mix your starter to a thicker consistency. Keep it in cool (50-60 degrees) conditions and feed it less often. Jeff
Non-diastatic malt I have some "Aunt Patty's barley malt extract" syrup. I need to know if it is or is not diastatic, for a Maggie Glezer recipe that specifies non-diastatic. An internet search has left me confused and my question unanswered as has a quick search of this website. Anybody know the answer? I'm going...	Non-diastatic I'm almost positive barley malt syrup is non-diastatic. It is heated during processing, which denatures the diastase enzymes. Diastatic malt comes as a powder, which is not heated and so it still has active enzymes.
My starter's first produce... Meh So I decided (with help from people here) that my starter was ready to bake with (link to that discussion: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/16928/my-starter-ready-baking). And I decided to try Peter Reinhart's 'basic sourdough' in BBA. I think the starter itself was fine, but for one r...	Wetter is definitely better. What follows is basically beginner advice, so apologies if you know all this stuff already. :) Wetter is definitely better. At least, if your goal is bigger holes. And it's absolutely vital, during the shaping stage, to avoid deflating the dough, as you'll lose precious bubbles in the p...
Sourdough Culture went dormant on it's own. I'm sorry, I've been looking through these forums and I cannot find a specific answers to my issue. Mine was never in the fridge, never in the freezer. Infact, I just started this culture about a week ago. It was extremely active at the beginning then went dormant. There are ...	This is perfectly normal. This is perfectly normal. Stick to the recipe and in a few days the dominant natural yeast will overcome the other bacteria that are curently active. The fact that the starter is now slowing down is a good sign that other microbes are at the end of their lives and the environment is perfect fo...
Russian Super Culture As much as I care about the women who shares my kitchen she has tested the bonds of our relationship like nothing in the past twenty years. One morning while waiting for coffee she nonchalantly stated that she threw out the slimy, white stuff in the fridge. I said what?....she said.... you know t...	I wonder ... Given the provenance of the culture, I wonder if it was used mostly for rye breads in its native habitat. David
Retiring Carl's 1847 Oregon Trail starter, for CFH. I'm switching from the 1847 Oregon Trail Starter made famous by Carl Griffith. I had obtained a free ($1 donation plus S.A.S.E) dehydrated sample from www.carlsfriends.net.This is one powerful starter, especially when fed with whole wheat. It blooms quickly when fed...	Dave, What I’m going to say Dave, What I’m going to say is probably considered heresy by many, but it is what I whole heartedly believe at this time. Maybe I’ll learn better in the future. But the following is my experience after baking hundreds of SFSD breads.Carl’s Oregon Trail starter ceased to be a few weeks after ...
Is my starter ready for baking? Hello, So I've built my starter using the pineapple juice method that is posted in various places around the fresh loaf (100% flour/water). I've been feeding it twice a day most days for the past two weeks or so. The picture below is of my starter about an hour and a half after I fed it ...	I waited until my starter was I waited until my starter was consistent with tripling in size every 3-4 hours after feeding before I baked it. I did this to ensure thaat I got the most amount of sour as possible and boy was it awesome! As for refridgerating, what I like to do is feed the starter and maximize in size a...
A little TLC for my starter I’ve been nursing a starter from a San Francisco sourdough culture I bought from Dr Ed Wood several years ago. Though the starter was still raising bread nicely, I found that over time the sourdough taste had gradually diminished to the point that I had begun using citric acid to boost the s...	Cold start oven First I must say those are some seriously nice looking boules! So when you cold start the oven, you just load the bread. Do you bake them on pans or on a stone/tiles? I am curious about this since I now have a new propane stove, I am almost starting over in baking it seems. So I am looking at all kin...
Unproofed sourdough starter I am really new to this sourdough starter thing. I have two jars of starter perking right along. One is on the counter and one in the refrigerator. I have a classic San Francisco sourdough bread recipe that calls for one cup of sourdough starter (unproofed). What does that mean? Unproof...	Uhm... I would assume the starter should be used straight from the fridge, but i may be mistaken. -SndBrian
Can I rescue this disaster? I've just realised that I made a mistake in my sourdough recipe yeasterday. My starter had been fed and was vigorous, so I made a sponge and left it to ferment for 12 hours until just before bed time. I added flour, water and salt to make the bread dough and left it in a bowl overnight to ri...	Or just add some instant yeast and call it a hybrid Not the end of the world and I'd not waste the dough.You are still at the stage it can be saved. Whether or not to add extra flour and water depends on the taste of the dough-taste it for salt level and decide.It probably is very salty and the natural yeasties may hav...
What is your avg rise time with a 100% (no yeast) starter loaf of basic bread? I usually add some instant yeast to my recipes because my early experience with my sourdough had long initial rises and I just ran out of time to get the loaf to the bake. I want to revisit this and see if it still holds true because when I ...	Answer is: it depends With winter temperatures like you describe, maybe as much as 24 hours for the bulk fermentation. If temps are 75ºF or higher, maybe 6 hours. After shaping, perhaps 75% of the time for the first rise, but that's also variable. Other variables include inoculation rate, whole-grain vs. white flou...
What do I do with the leftover barm? I made my first two sourdough loaves last week with the barm that i constructed using Peter Reinhart's method in The Bread Bakers Apprentice. The bread turned out great, and I will post pictures as soon as I find the USB cord for my camera to my laptop (just moved :0) Anyway, now ...	Barm AKA sourdough starter I am reading Reinhart's book, BBA pp 227 et seq. Yes this barm can be refreshed and used again and again. I store mine in the refrigerator and begin my refreshing process a day or two before I use it again. If you have not done so already, I urge you to buy a set of scales for your bread b...
Yeap, another one of those sourdough nublets So about a week and a half ago, I decided to try my hand at making a starter, and soon, sourdough bread! I started the starter with 1 cup of wholewheat flour and 1 cup of drinking water. I also added a teaspoon of yeast and a teaspoon of sugar to it. I fed the starter for ab...	Boarderaholic, You got two strange things going on.... you want to grow a starter, yet you stop it from growing in the refrigerator. Is there a reason? Like you can't feed it every 12 hours or your room temp is above 90°F? It is very typical for a sourdough to be refreshed and get thinner as it ferments. That is act...
Max Fermentation Temperature Hey all, I built up 30g of my starter to 250g, then left it my electric oven with the light on overnight. Checked the temperature with my instant baking thermometre in the morning and it was around 95F. Is this alright or too hot? Thanks, Matt	Warm, but in the ballpark Presuming you have a higher hydration culture, the temperature range is 70-95F, so you're in the ballpark, albeit in the top row. The warm, wet environment will produce bacteria with a less sour taste than a drier culture held in a cooler spot. Was it able to raise your bread or did you hav...
Help to convert starter hydration from volume to weight Hi everyone I have been perusing the northwest sourdough sites and want to try out a recipe. The recipe calls for 3 cups of 166% hydration starter (equal volume of flour and water). Can someone please convert this to % hydration by weight as this is how I do it....	In response to my own question bakerincanadaOops the post above I sent it before I commented. I keep thinking about my question and maybe it is a silly one. For those experienced bakers out there - maybe the % hydration is the same regardless whether you use volume or weights. Any comments would be appreciated. I s...
Keeping sourdough dough in the fridge I made my first batch of sourdough this evening; it's on its first rise as I type. It made a substantial batch. The only bread recipes I've used thus far are the mix-and-refrigerate types in Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day. Is there any reason I couldn't use a portion of this doug...	How Long is the Tunnel "refrigerate ... for later use" would depend upon how far down the line "later use" might be. You might want to consider freezing what you don't use in the next day or so.
"Growth" in starter I have a friend who recently told me that her starter, that's in a mason jar stored in the fridge, has a "growth" on it that kind of looks like a mushroom popping out of the center. Has anyone ever seen anything like that? Doesn't sound good to me. I think she should dispose of it.	gas bubble maybe? Without seeing that "mushroom," it might just be a gas bubble forming.
"starter" uses. I went through the process from BBA for making a starter and then left it in the fridge for several weeks if not months. Reread how to refresh an old starter and dumped all but a cup of the starter and added 4 cups bread flour and 2 1/2 cups warm tap water and set on the counter overnight. Nothing hap...	Thank you for the response. Thank you for the response. I am not sure why BBA has you revive with such large quantities and after 3 days of building the rye starter from these boards, I have found less is better. After looking around and doing some reading. I have found what I had made closely resembles a poolish so ...
can you build a starter at home temperature I am building a rye starter fro St Patrick's day , feeding it's every 12 hrs. , do I have to put in the fridge , I am afraid , i'll forget to feed it.	To build-in the sense of make To build-in the sense of make your own, from scratch-a starter, no refrigeration is required. In fact, refrigeration will almost certainly prevent your starter-to-be from ever getting "started". From what I have gathered, the ideal temperature for building the starter is around 75 degF. At...
Can you compost unused starter? I hate the thought of throwing out my unused starter -- but I simply can't keep up with it. So ... can I compost it? Thanks for your help, Elizabeth	Yes Absolutely
Went for it...YES! I suppose that I'm not the only one who can't stand to throw part of a perfectly good sourdough starter away when doing the weekly refreshing process. This particular starter was made according to Peter Reinhart's directions from his ABED book, using lemon juice (from a Meyer lemon tree in my back y...	I had the same idea myself I had the same idea myself with the same recipe, but only after I'd mixed up the starter using his directions. I'm going to try it later this week though, as it seems sensible and time saving. I think my starter was sluggish - I was using his 'mother starter' recipe and it was very slow to ri...
Spray oil on sourdough Is using a spray oil like Pam a big no no for sourdough. I am so used to using it on my yeast breads when they are rising and I never gave it a thought when I started to make sourdough bread ( twice ) with ok sucess ? Thank You !	I do it routinely. David
Making a 166% Sourdough Starter How do I convert my sourdough starter which consists of 1 c. starter to 1 c. water and 1 1/2 cups of flour (and what percentage is that?) to a starter which is 166%?	166% hydration SD starter I am no sourdough expert but that's what I have in the fridge. I use this % to make SD sandwich breads all the time. It works very well for me. I use 1:1 water:flour ratio by volume, not by weight. It's roughly 8 oz of water and 5 oz of flour, I believe. If you begin to feed your starter ...
What can I do w/this 'hybrid' thick starter?? I've been reading the forums here for a few months but today is my first post. I'm hoping to get some help/advice on using this (sort of peculiar) "hybrid" starter I've been so carefully nursing (NOT). It was started the 1st week of February.. sort of. It's actually a co...	You really should bake it. You look a little caught up in the miricle making of starter. It is fun isn't it? But if you let it, the discard may chase you out the kitchen! Your starter sounds just fine and you can bake with it at any time. I haven't seen hooch in years! About the thick starter, stir it down and use i...
Pain de campagne starter I ordered some pain de campagne starter from KA. It says that it has enough starter for 12 loaves of bread. I was wondering if I can use this as an ACTUAL starter (mix it, grow it, keep it in the fridge, etc) OR is it only good as an additive for bread? Thanks!	Depending on what the Depending on what the starter really consists of you should be able to use it to make your own. As starter is a microbiological culture of yeasts and lactobacillus the starter you bought should probably be about the same. Try it! Be sure to post the ingridients list though!
help with whole grain sourdough Hello everyone, With some trepidation, I have now tried baking sourdough bread, twice. It has been a flop, and, just in case, today I killed my starter and started a new one. I realized that I did not refresh it correctly (from 100 g of 100% hydration started I removed 50 g, and then...	The successful execution of The successful execution of this bread requires a few different skills. The first being a good working knowledge of bread dough in general. The feel and the changes brought about by altering the hydration of a given recipe and also changes brought about by technique variations. Secondly, e...
Can you use starter in place of yeast? Can I substitute SD starter in place of yeast in this recipe? I have a 25g water/25g flour starter. If a recipe calls for 1 pkg of yeast, how much SD starter do you usually substitute for the yeast?300g of water10g dry active yeast500g of flour10g of salt	Hi Pam B The recipe that you have given has 10g dried yeast which equates to 2% which would be enough to bring the dough to maturity in approximately 2 hours . There is no way that you will get the dough to rise with an "ACTIVE" starter the rate that you have suggested 50g which represents about 10% so if all variables...
Need a good sourdough bread recipe So I successfully started a starter using the 'Starting a Starter - Sourdough 101, a tutorial' instructions on this site. Now what? I couldn't find a sourdough recipe using the search function. Can anyone share their simple sourdough bread recipe with me? I am ready to bake today -...	I suggest you start here I suggest you start here This is SteveB's blog site called Bread cetera. Steve is an expert sourdough baker and has many easy to follow breads on his site that I know you will enjoy. You can make any bread using your new natural yeast once you understand how to use it. Steve has video clips sho...
Olive sourdough recipe? I'm staying at a friend's house and don't have access to my bread books. Does anyone have a simple sourdough olive bread recipe they could share with me? Also without my kitchenaid. Should be interesting! Chris	try a search try a search for "mcs olive", or "mcs rosemary" to find mark sinclair's recipe, I have done it a few times and have found it to be an incredibly easy dough to work with, and an excellent result. It is spiked with yeast, but, I am sure you could adapt it to 100% sourdough. Rick
It is ALIVE! I'm so excited I just HAVE to share! I decided to try my own sourdough starter this past Friday, and after doing some research on here and looking through my pile of library bread books, I settled on using Peter Reinhart's method from Whole Grain Breads (which is essentially a variation of the pineapple ju...	Keep Going Your starter will take several weeks before it fully develops its flavor potential. However, you can use it until then knowing that the flavor will be more developed later. Ford
Might be having starter problems Morning all, About a week ago I pulled out a starter from my fridge that I had in there for about 6 months without feeding. I started a feeding program with a 1:1:1 ratio (50 grams each). It seemed to rise fine so a few days ago I upped the amount to 100 grams each with the same ratio. ...	Six Months in Cold Storage It sounds as though the starter is still asleep from the long period of refrigeration. I would suggest patience and continue feeding on the small scale daily 50g:50g:50g. I assume you are using unbleached flour. The bleaching agents in bleached flour might be harmful. Ford
can I use my discard to build preferment before feeding it? I hate to throw away my extra starter each week and would rather use it in make some bread on my days off. Is it ok to feed the starter then use the discard that night to start a preferment for my final dough? Or is absolutley necessary for me to feed it then ...	I never throw away my excess starter. Instead, I store it in a "discards" container in the fridge and use it to make pancakes, waffles, pizza skins, muffins, and even add it to non-sourdough yeast breads for flavor. I use a plastic Tupperware-type container that holds all my excess. Sometimes (like now!) I have a cou...
Looking for direction on refreshing starter I am in the process of attempting to refresh the mother starter I made a few months ago and put in the freezer. It was made w the pineapple juice mix frpm ABED. The frozen pc was removed from the freezer two days ago and left to sit out overnight. Yesterday I took the 2.5 o...	The starter that came in from the cold Disclaimer: I have never frozen a starter. Observation: Freezing doesn't necessarily kill microorganisms, but it doesn't benefit them, either. Since your starter has been in its equivalent of a gulag above the Arctic Circle, why not give it a few days on the beach? Take an ounce ...
When to start baking with my starter? It's a bit sluggish... I'm a bit of a newbie with sourdough, and I've got a seed culture going, using Reinhart's Pineapple Juice recipe initially, and then I started fiddling around with it after reading more on this site. So now I have a little jar of culture which is fairly slugg...	Keep it going If you put it in the fridge what's now "sluggish" will be even slower. It's in my kitchen at about 69 degrees F Then you'll want to find a warmer spot in the house to set your starter. 69º is still on the cool side for starter activity. Find a desk lamp you can leave on 24 hrs and set the jar nearby (b...
Waffles and pancakes using Reinhardt's standard starter Hi all, I am brand new to sourdough -- and breadmaking, really. I just got Peter Reinhart's new book last week and find it really great. I have some leftover mother starter today and really wanted to make waffles ... but when I started to look up recipes, I saw...	We love sourdough pancakes and waffles and I make them all the time with whatever starter leftovers I have around. I really don't worry much about the hydration of the starter I begin with, and focus more on the consistency of the batter I end up with. We like our pancakes thin toward the crepe end of the spectrum, b...
It's alive... but only barely. How can I give my sourdough seed a boost? Last weekend I created a sourdough seed culture, more or less following the recipe in Peter Reinhart's wonderful Wholegrain Breads book. The only difference I made was that instead of pineapple juice, I used slightly diluted apple juice (apparentl...	Warm it up! Yes, you should warm it up. It will make all the difference in the world. You could also thicken it a bit if you want, but it is not necessary at this stage. Once it gets growing good you will definitely want to thicken it up or else you will be feeding it constantly.
Question about retarding a German sourdough bread......... Hi there, soooooo,now that my newest sourdough batch is ready and I am DYING for a loaf of my favorite bread, I find myself not having enough time. I just recently came upon this website and have been perusing it with the greatest interest. So, my question toda...	How I would do this I would knead the dough for about 10-15 minutes until it passes the "window-pane" test. 30 minutes seems like overkill. Then, bulk proof for about 90 minutes or until the dough has nearly doubled. Form the loaf carefully so as not to de-gass and place in the prepared loaf pan. Immediately after this...
Mold on my starter? Hello! I've had some personal things going on that have kept me from baking for a few months, so I've kept my starter in a covered coffee mug in the fridge for a while. (I've previously had no problems with this method) Today I took it out, and found this. My primary concern lies in the white dots o...	I'm no microbiologist but it I'm no microbiologist but it looks fine to me. Our sourdough starters are very hostile environments for anyone else to take root. Take a little from the bottom if you prefer and feed it to build up your starter. I guess it will start right up.
Having some trouble with slackness since switch to Kamut I'm not sure if this is a starter issue or a grain issue, so I thought I'd start here. I have a several WW recipes that I make every week-one is an enriched WW fruited bread for breakfast toast and the other is our sandwich loaf. I usually used 2 cups hard red s...	The gluten just isn't as strong in Kamut as Red wheat. The protein levels are high because it contains many kinds of protein, but that doesn't mean it is high in gluten proteins. That is why it is often mixed with high gluten flours and doesn't stand alone in sourdough only recipes. I might suggest a switch to insta...
Second attempt at sourdough Yesterday evening I stopped discarding the excess from my starter that has been fed and nurtured for almost a month. "Sourpuss" is at 60% hydration and weighed in at 50g. I started by raising her to 150g. Three hours later she was quite active, so I weighed out 1 kilo of flour (the amount I ...	Well, we cut into one of the Well, we cut into one of the loaves at lunchtime, fantastic. It tastes better than my first attempt. I just wish I had a better camera than the one on my phone.
My first sourdough loaf I made my first loaf with my sourdough starter yesterday. It is delicious and wonderfully sour. I'm am very glad I found this site I couldn't have done it without all the great info this site contains. JayC	That looks much better than That looks much better than my first attempt at sourdough, well done! What recipe did you use?
I keep a 100% starter, but Reinhart wants 125%... So, there it is. I keep a 100% hydration starter. For this multi-step San Fran sourdough recipe of his I've been following and liking, it takes me like, 3-4 days to do.. which is just long enough, I figure. So, i keep a 100% starter, because the math is easy. I have a v...	If you need a total of 172g If you need a total of 172g starter at 125% hydration, divide 172 by 225 (100 'units' of flour and 125 of water). You get 0.764g - that's the weight of each unit in the starter. Now multiply this weight by the number of units of flour and water that will constitute the starter: 0.764 x 100 =...
Sort of a stupid question I made up a pre-ferment using my just fed starter, but I did not have time to proof and bake (this was Tuesday night), I kneaded in the rest of the flour and salt and then let it rest for a while. When I realized that it was past my bedtime, I put the covered proofing bowl in the refrigerato...	Not so stupid Actually Peter Reinharts latest book is suggesting a similar format of managing dough for busy people. I suggest you remove the dough from the cooler and spread it out on the counter (lightly oiled) and do a nice gentle stretch and fold. After it has warmed slightly over an hour, divide and shape the doug...
that's it! I've had it up to HERE with this stupid sourdough rye! I've made plenty of rye/wheat yeasted breads with great success, but when I use my lovely tasty rye sourdough starter for the same thing it's so sticky I can't stand it. It's the consistency of just-chewed gum that sticks to your shoe on a warm day. I ju...	Silly question, but you are Silly question, but you are dusting your hands and the boule with flour before handling, right? :) Alternatively, you could dampen your hands. Either way, this is a solvable problem (anyone who's dealt with high-hydration doughs feels your pain). As for the loaf pan, you did grease the i...
Sourdough bagel question/ troubleshooting...... Hello, I am new here and have been perusing this website with a terribly obsessive streak-oh the wealth of information is just lovely and mind-boogling! I wish I could bake all day! Ok, that aside-I just made my very first batch of bagels and have a few questions. Let me ...	Boil, not simmer Boiling the bagels sets the crust. The water should be at a rolling boil, not a simmer. Keep the bagels in the refrigerator until they are ready to go into the boiling water. I'm not sure what the float test is supposed to accomplish, but I doubt if it has any effect on the finished product. The ide...
Substituting starter Can one author's starter be substiturted for another? I have several books, all with different formulations and one good starter I made using Daniel Leader's. What happens if I use that with someone else's recipe? I'm guessing maybe I have adjust the hydration, which may be beyond my tiny little br...	Starter hydration, you can do it! I've adjusted for starter hydration so you can do it too. Don't make this rocket science and you'll be fine. if you were doing bulk commercial quantities it make take the use of a small calculator but for home baking, a pencil and a pad ought to do it. A starter is a starter once it's ...

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