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R.I.P. Mr. Yeasty Alas, this morning had my confirmations that my 'sluggish' seed culture was a bust. After an amazing, unexpected 2nd day rise - day 3 was a horrible disappointment. I covered it back up to follow Reinhart's suggestion to give a sluggish seed culture another 12-24 hours. I awoke to not one iota of move...	ooh, don't give up just yet.... Hi there: Ooh, don't give up on Mr. Yeasty #1 just yet. When I "captured" my first starter, I got an amazing "bloom" early on, and then it was sluggish for about another week +. If I'm not mistaken, this is often a spike in the lactic acid producing bacteria that can fool you into thin...
making this sourdough VENEZIANA middle uncooked i made this according to the vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1dUGp_RRhE&ab_channel=UnalunaPerCucinareit was all looking good I checked the dough and it reached 88 degrees celsius when baking because it is an enriched dough, but when I went to cut it the middle was c...	I think 88 is too low, I think 88 is too low, normally bread should reach 95C or so. But anyway, just bake longer... And generally, thermometer is not the right way to check for doneness, check by tapping and making sure the sound is hollow.
Temperatures Sourdough recipes from various sources - as long as they're by weight not volume.Challenger cast iron pan. Electric oven from the 1980s!Two questions, if I may, please… I'm tending to get slight over-browning:can I, should I stop baking regardless of what the recipe says when my Thermapen shows above 190°F...	The problem I've always had The problem I've always had with electric ovens is that the bottoms of things turn out too dark due to the proximity to the bake element.
First Ever Sourdough and It Failed I created my starter from water and flour as instructed by S. John Ross in an article titled "Sourdough Baking." That went pretty much as advertised. After six days I decided to try baking a loaf from the recipe in the same article. * 2 Cups of sponge (proofed starter) * 3 Cups of unb...	High % of starter It seems like a lot of starter. Most of the recipes I use call for a small amount of starter that is mixed into a pre-ferment. I think that may be part of the problem, but there are other bakers where who will have greater insight.
Question about crumb.... I would appreciate some input - I am attaching a picture of the crumb of my sourdough bread made this past weekend. I've used my own starter, made according to Dan Lepard's Handmade Loaf, and it is his White Levain bread I've been making this bread regularly for one year (in fact, my starter ...	Climbing bubbles Hi, Sally. A year and a half or so ago, when I first started submitting photos of my breads to TFL, one of the more experienced bakers (Susan? MiniOven?) commented that the large holes having their long axes vertical rather than horizontal is a sign that the loaf was well-shaped. If that is so, you are...
yeast rising to the top? I read not too long ago in one of the threads somewhere here that when feeding starter, one must take the sample from the top as that is where the yeast cells are. Is this true? I'm no biologist; I just want to understand why there would be more population on top. I can't recall reading anyt...	Not completely sure but... The strain of yeast in sourdough is probably a top-fermenting yeast. But you can just stir the starter to redistribute the yeast cels.
New to Sourdough - Several Questions! Like many, I am starting with Reinhart's BBA. Perhaps I am crazy to want to start my home sourdough experience with a 100% rye, but there you have it! Not thinking, I started my seed culture at 10pm yesterday after an intensive day of cleaning my home, not thinking at the time what...	A suggestion: If you plan to bake a 100 percent rye sourdough, I really suggest you first read the chapter on rye in Jeffrey Hamelman's "Bread, a Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes," as well as his discussion of the various flours. Hopefully your library will have a copy. As much as I enjoy the BBA, it offers very...
Some questions about a sourdough rye recipe I hope this turns out- I have the loaf shaped and proofing. I have some questions about rye dough characterisitcs. I knew it would be stickier than regular bread dough,from reading all the posts I could find on the site but this was really almost like the high hydration ciabo...	Percentage of rye I think you need at least 50 percent rye flour for a bread to be considered rye and a sourdough rye is traditionally made with a rye starter. I also wonder if the unknown rye could have been white rye.
Starter is almost 1 year old-I need some advice Hi everyone!! I was posting on here pretty regularly last April when I was trying to get my starter up and running. I've been doing great with it, but want to see if anyone can give me advice on how (or if I need) to tweak her a bit. I've been baking with her about on...	Thanks Everyone - Baking Sourdough Today!! Thanks for the advice on making sure that my starter is fit! I refreshed both starters 5 days ago leaving them out for about 5 hours and then my white starter two days ago and left her out overnight. I started a loaf yesterday with my white starter and should finish it today...
How many feeds to use different % I was playing with my 100% starter and made a 60% for the jmonkey pizza (my 100% 20g, 12g water and 20g flour). That was 12 hours ago. It has pretty much tripled, if not more. I'd like to mix up the dough now so it's ready for tomorrow. Now I know I've read you're supposed to discard/f...	Well the genreal opinion is Well the genreal opinion is that a starter of different hydration favors different kind of lactic bacteria. But I personally think you should stick to one hydration and do just as you did, convert it for a specific recipe. If the 60% hydration starter is ready then use it for bread, it will ...
My First Posted Bake This is the first time I am actually sharing the results of my bake. I have posted a few times in the past, but never showed what I can, and more often than not, what I cannot do. I have baked Wild Yeast Rustic Flax Seed-Currant Sourdough today. I made it once before, with cranberries instead of...	Gosia, They look beautiful Gosia, They look beautiful and delicious! :)
Going wild... Hi all! For some reason, I seem to get better success using my barm starter than using instant yeast. I am sure temperature and time play a big role in that, I should probably explore that further. However, I also would like to know how I can take a bread formula that uses biga or pate fermentee and conve...	Here's a link Hi hazimtug, Here's a link to a discussion on the subject: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/5569/converting-recipe-uses-instant-yeast-sourdough-starter-recipe Hope this helps. David
When is my starter ready? I've been reading here for awhile and had a question about the starter I'm trying to get going. When I began reading up on starters the resources were overwhelming and I began with one that looked easy, the sourdom method. I've been at it for going on 2 weeks now, each day I discard almost al...	A Tablespoon of Starter Jackie, how much does your tablespoon of starter weigh? Does it weigh 100 grams too? It sounds like you aren't using enough starter when you feed. Try using equal weights of starter, flour, and water. --Pamela
Diagnosis, Overfermented? This was a loaf i made when my starter was about 2 months old. I suspected my starter wasn't mature enough. But now I believe it was overfermented. See how the dough is at the 8 cup mark .Well i now I stop at the 6 cup mark or even less. At the time i was trouble shooting gummy spots and d...	Glad i took pictures back Glad i took pictures back then
dried sourdough, any experiences? I just went into a store this week and saw they had sourdough, dried, just like dried yeast. Any experiences with that? Why would you use that? Just to get some sourdough taste?My sourdough starter is slowy improving, what just got out of the oven finally had some 'oven rise' as well. ...	Starter for starter Dried sourdough starters are sold for the purpose of reviving them and building into a mature starter. Did that dried starter have any information where it came from?
Pierre Nury's Rustic Light Rye is my new favourite sourdough bread. I have just baked it for the third time and though I think that my second attempt was better than this one (airy and delighfully sour), today's loaf still performed O.K. at lunch time. It takes me three days to make this bread from creating the sti...	Looks good! Wow, despite the small quantities, your bread looks marvelous. Not to mention the photo-styling and the SOUP! Mmmmmm.... Should have eaten lunch! MommaT
Anyone Else Using Firm Retarded Starters? I keep a firm starter refrigerated between builds. It's allowed to at least double in bulk under refrigeration before use as a poolish in the next batch. Refrigerated development period is four to five days. Leavening action is slower than most sourdough starters but the res...	Questions... 1) What temperature is your refrigerator? 2) "as a poolish" or mixed into a poolish? A poolish also contains some added yeast and I know most to be runny and not firm. 3) Is this poolish a mixture of sourdough with added yeast? 4) What takes 4 -5 days, the starter or the poolish? Mini
New starter (about 3 hours old) already more than doubled! Hello everyone, I'm completely new to making sourdough (and a little less new to baking in general), so I need help (I think). About 3 hours ago today, I began developing a starter using a recipe from a baking book. This recipe calls for combining 1 package of ...	I suggest Hi, I suggest you check out Debra Winks posts on this web site. Start with her reply found in this thread: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10359/discouraged-southeast?page=1 then if you want the detailed microbiology, search for her other posts (the pineapple juice solution parts 1 and 2). It's fantastic a...
Postpone baking to Day 3? I tend to bake a lot using the wild beasties... Most of the formulas I use (usually from C&C or BBA) include developing some sort of a preferment on Day 1, forming the dough, bulk fermentation, shaping, proofing and baking on Day 2. Day 2 hence ends up taking up a lot of my time. Is there anyo...	Postponing baking until day 3 I've shaped loaves on day 2 and proofed in the refrigerator overnight with great success. You have to allow an hour or two for the loaf to wake up on the counter before baking. --Pamela
sourdough starter problem Hi My Name is sam. I just joined. I am trying to locate an article referenced by Peter Reinhart in his whole wheat book. The article was writen by Debra Wink. I thought he mentioned it could be found on the King Arthur web site but I can not locate it. Thanks.... Sam	Lactic Acid Bacteria This might be the one you are looking for: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/keyword/lactic-acid-bacteria --Pamela
Laurel's Kitchen Bread book Recipe? Has anyone used the recipe for whole wheat sourdough from the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book? I am a first time sourdougher and thought I would try this one first because it looked fairly simple, but my loaves would not rise! I had to let them rise 2 to 3 times the usual time to get th...	Iaurel's kitchen bread book recipe Hi Mylissa20, your starter must be bubble.If your starter is too sour take about half of the starter and try to feed for about three times per day about three days.When do you make the dough let is rest about from 12-36 hours and then that will be first rise.Then you shape the loaf an...
Bad Start? Loaves wont rise! Has anyone used the recipe for whole wheat sourdough from the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book? I am a first time sourdougher and thought I would try this one first because it looked fairly simple, but my loaves would not rise! I had to let them rise 2 to 3 times the usual time to get them to t...	Don't know Laurel, however a few things I can suggest: - if your starter is relatively young (under a week), it just may not be ready yet. Is it a stiff, dough-like starter, or a wetter, batter-like starter? How long does it take to double in volume, and at what temperature? - sourdough is inherently slower than comm...
Retarding sourdough loaves overnight I have recently started baking sourdough bread, and have thoroughly enjoyed the process. Each loaf has been a "success", but each loaf has been very different from the others. My wife and I have very different opinions about whether or not a loaf is a success. For me, the crust s...	If everybody's happy ... You can't knock it! Looks like a huge cupcake. Comments: 1. If you want a crunchier crust, bake at a higher temperature to brown the crust more. 2. Butter will soften the crust. The lower half was buttered; the upper wasn't. You could try buttering the right half only, as an experiment. 3. I w...
Container and mixing for my Sourdough Start I am attempting a sourdough start for the first time, and am using Manuel's Sourdough Start recipe from The Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book. I am growing my start in a mason jar with the lid on and I have 2 questions: 1. Do I have to stir my start, or can I swirl it around the ...	I'd stir it, and.... ...cover it loosely so it can capture any wild yeasts that might be flying around. That's what made my flour/water starter such a lively one, I think.
Swedish Rye Sourdough My take on this marvellous recipe by Breadtopia. Born more out of convenience than a need to change anything. This was a last minute bake so used unfed starter at a lower inoculation for a long bulk ferment. Used carob molasses which I find more liquid than the usual molasses which I would think u...	That's one lovely loaf! I've That's one lovely loaf! I've tried that Breadtopia recipe before and you've inspired me to try it again.
Sourdough too Wet ? Hello, I'm brand new to these forums, so sorry if I mess up on any form-etiquette. I've just used Richard Bertinet's sourdough recipe from CRUST. Unfortunately with his recipes, I've found that almost all of them require 15 to 20% more water than he calls for. I emailed him directly to be sure I ...	I tried the Crust recipe for I tried the Crust recipe for the first time recently, and posted of my efforts in my blog: http://www.tangledweb.me.uk/wordpress/?p=103 I was using strong english flour, and found the hydration fine. He does only use a 50% hydration on his starter, though, and I use 100%, so I'd taken that ...
How to streamline the sourdough bread baking process... Howdy All, I have just made my 2nd attempt at sour dough. My first batch turned out 2 quite small boules with great flavor, but extremely fine crumb. This time I used a new batch of sour dough starter. I used the Sourdo Lady's Rye flour and pineapple method. ...	Timing I make this recipe almost weekly. I think it gets easier/quicker with experience. Yes, it's made over a period of two days, but the actual work involved is pretty minimal, especially if you use a mixer to knead. It only takes about 5 minutes before I go to bed to make the preferment and refresh the starter. The ...
not riseing 3 This attempt at a sourdough my bread did rise but it would not stand up to making a loaf it sort of an over sise pan cake about 3 to 5 in high. It was a bit sticky when baked should it have more flower? how firm should it be. any help is welcome Thanks Bob	Bob B, have you got a photo? A picture can say a 1000 words. A pancake never makes it 5" high. Mini
Suggestions for Using Up Excessive Amounts of Sourdough Starter I have close to 3000 grams of the sourdough starter, 100% hydration as per gaaarp's recipe. It is lovely and has been growing healthily for a month now (thank you gaaarp). I have not discarded any of it at my last feeding and now have to deal with this ...	breakfast treats. SD English Muffins (per recipe on this site) and King Arthur's SD Waffles (their site) come to mind.
Dough too slack to shape So i've recently jumped both feet in to sourdough baking, but sadly with little success. I succesfully made a starter with equal weights water and rye flour, feeding it twice a day until it doubled and then converting it to a stiff (50% hydration) breadflour starter. I then broke out RLB's brea...	Some questions I don't have the book so don't know the recipe, but are you measuring by volume or by weight? What type flour are you using? Bread flour? AP? Rye? Are you marking your container with a piece of tape to measure the rise? I find that's more accurate than going by time since if you look at the tape mar...
not riseing I was wondering if anyone out there mite be able to help. I tried to make sourdough loaf and it did not rise. at least not very much I used an unbleached flower and water let it sit the time to get it nice and ripe but when i used the starter it did not rise much. and when baked it was very condensed inside...	Did You Start a Starter? Bob, you mentioned that you mixed flour and water and let it sit. Did you develop a starter, which takes a week or two, or did you just try mixing flour and water and using it after a few days or hours? See my Sourdough Tutorial for tips on making a starter. It's (almost) guaranteed to work....
Starter problems My starter is not working right at all. I maintain it at 100% hydration and feed it rye flour. When I feed it it doubles in less than 12 hrs. When I try to make bread with it the dough goes slack during rising and then is absolutely DISGUSTING!!!!! I mean the bread is terrible. Is is gummy, wet an...	What type of flour? I'm not sure whether you are using a 100 percent rye sourdough or a mix. When you add "white" flour, are you using unbleached, unbromated bread flour? Are you using your starter at its peak, after it has been refreshed? Have you tried a stiffer starter, or tried feeding your starter every 12 hou...
"no-knead" bread with leftover starter Due to a miscalculation, I ended up with 300g of leftover starter this afternoon. I decided to play around with this a bit, and used PR's Pain a 'lancienne technique to make the starter into a high-hydration dough. It worked so well that I thought I would share it with the group. ...	Thanks Thanks for sharing - I'm always looking for ways to not waste starter and 300g is a lot!
Hello and Request for Help with Terminology Hello to All, I am a new member, actually 2-weeks-and-32-minutes new. I have been faithully reading the posts of last two weeks and I am learning a great deal, but today, being a novice I am, the confusion took over. I have decided to bake two kinds of bread today with my wi...	Glad you asked I'm a real beginner at sourdough myself, and found a lot of help here on TFL. I, too was confused by the terminology (still am sometimes), but having asked these questions recently myself, here's what I've learned so far. Poolish, biga and sponge are all just types of pre-ferments. Poolish is wet (about...
Sourdough pet peeve I've been baking with sourdough for about a month now with good results, but most of the stuff I've made has been by feel, not a recipe. So I go looking for recipes online, my cook book collection being a little sparse right now, and I find tons of recipes. I have one problem, though: they specify ...	I have noticed that also, I have noticed that also, makes it kind of hard to know what to do. Here is what I have done. Check to see what the hydration of the bread is from what the recipe gives for the flour and water. If that seems right then I make my starter at that hydration.
Levian using beans rather than grains HelloHave any members used legumes to grow or add to a starter/levian?I attended a workshop that included showing a gut microbiome advantage to using legumes as a starter.Unfortunately, it didn't show how to grow the starter using beans.Thanks.Owen Sindler	Legumes to grow a starter Hi Owen,The process is shown here, using chickpeashttps://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67461/using-liquid-foam-lentils-make-mediterranean-sourdough
JMonkey's Choco/cherry Bread...absolutely wonderful Recipe here. My starter , thanks to Sourdough 101, has been a great success. I had a 5# bag of the cherries from my son and made the formula last night and completed it this AM. WOW ! Perfect inst. and perfect outcome. I baked it in my Le Creuset pot a la Sullivan Br...	trailrunner - choc. cherry bread Hey Trailrunner, you've been keeping your starter busy these days...that looks great! I've wanted to try JMonkey's recipe for a long time as well, maybe soon. My husband loves a good pain au chocolate and this would be something similar. Baking it in the Dutch Oven seems like the way to...
Hamelman no-knead Baguettes w/ wild yeast culture My husband asked me to please make baguettes for him today. I had the starter already going . I already knew how much I liked this formula since I had done it once before. So I subbed 250 g of my 100% hydration starter for the yeast. I didn't adjust the flour or the wat...	You did a great job! Scoring wet loaves is really difficult. Your bread looks great--like pain a l'ancienne. --Pamela
Has Anybody Purchased Cultures From This Site? Hi all, I want to get into sourdough. Especially San Francisco style. Surfing around the other day, I came across this website: http://www.sourdo.com/culture.htm. I was wondering if anybody has used these folks and if so what their experience was with the cultures. What ...	Save your money. SF Save your money. SF sourdough is not about starter, if you look through the site you'll find numerous posts on how to achieve that particular taste. And on a personal note, I would not buy anything from Ed Wood. Mike
Question about wild yeast starter First, the lead in... I used both the gaarp and Sourdolady methods. The Sourdolady trial did not take. There was a wet top layer throughout the trial. The gaarp trial did take. I split the result into two containers, just to be safe. When I did it, I took the top of the starter f...	Use 'em Both Personally, I would make two batches, one with each starter. If you aren't able to consume that much bread, use one now and the other for your next batch. As for the aroma, it will develop, as will the flavor, over the next several weeks. Your starter will work fine now to raise your dough, but the flav...
oh you have to get out the sourdough discard right now !! I had ripe bananas and I had a cup of discard. Ir isn't Sunday so no waffles. I turned to TFL and what did I find but a GREAT recipe for sourdough banana bread. It tastes and smells FANTASTIC. Here are the pics. I added a streusal topping before baking. I used p...	Looks Nice! Looks real nice, Trailrunner. I'm going to have to try it because I always have a lot of discard (I have two starters). --Pamela
a bunch of sourdough recipes at an unexpected web site... Well I was looking for something else and found this little treasure trove of recipes. They have ratings and pics. I think I will give some a try. http://www.recipezaar.com/cookbook.php?bookid=25711	looks great I book marked it and will print some of the recipes. Thanks!
How to calculate hydration % How do I figure out what the hydration % is of my starter. This is what I do. To 1/4 c. of active starter, I add 1/2 c. of water and 1 c. of bread flour. If I wanted to have a starter at 100% hydration, how would I adjust my feeding?	Get a scale. Hi, Tam1024. Baker's percentages are always calculated according to the weight of ingredients, not volume. Volume of dry ingredients, in particular, is much less precise. In making your calculations, the flour is always 100%. So, a 100% hydration starter (or dough) would have the same weight of water as o...
Good Sourdough Book? I have been recently introduced to baking with starters. I would like to know if you could recommend one great book on sourdough baking, what book would it be? Thanks, Darren	Bread If you're not intimidated by a lot of detailed information and want a book that is more than just a collection of recipes, then get Bread by Jeffrey Hamelman. It's not all about sourdough though: there are lots of recipes for straight and enriched doughs too.
I Need Help With a New Starter Hi Everybody, This is my very first SD starter. I purchased a San Francisco culture from Ed Wood's web site and last Thursday, I activated it according to the instructions. I made a proofing box out of a styrofoam cooler, heating pad and a digital probe thermometer and kept the starter ...	I am not sure I am a lot of help but I will try.... Hello! I have been using sourdough starter now for about 6 months but I started mine from a recipe on the KA website that used pineapple juice as the starter so I hope someone else chimes in about starting a dry starter.... I use AP flour and tap water to feed my sta...
Bread's just a little too sour. I made a loaf of sourdough with my OR Trail Starter on Monday, and it turned out just a bit too sour; not inedibly sour, but a bit stronger than I'd like. Here's what I did: Sunday morning: Took starter out of fridge (it had been there for a week), gave it a 1:2:2 feeding. Sunday evening...	Likely the flour People who aim for a more sour result would do two things, usually: 1) do a very slow retard, put the dough in the fridge for 16 hours, maybe more. This cold temp allows the yeast to slow production down and let the lacto build up - it's acids is what give the bread the sour tang. A fast(er) rise in a ...
24-hour Sourdough! Well, I've finally created my most perfect sourdough bread with such a rich flavor that I will probably never make anything else. Forget store bought bread, even from a good bakery. La Brea, eat your heart out! I started with the basic no-knead Sullivan Street recipe. Mix only the flour and water tog...	The basic Sullivan Street The basic Sullivan Street recipe can be found here.
Question about when to actually use my starter I have gotten some of "Carls Starter" and I believe that I am ready to use it. My question is after it has set out overnight (I keep it in the fridge) I will feed it first thing in the morning. Is it ready then? Should I be waiting for it to double? Or should it be like th...	after it has set out after it has set out overnight (I keep it in the fridge) I will feed it first thing in the morning. Is it ready then? You can actually take it out of the fridge and feed it immediately. Let it ferment (proof, ripen are synonyms) until it doubles. It will warm up as it ripens. Depending on th...
levain / baker's percentages From time to time, I just cannot figure out baker's percentages. Tonight is one of those times. I'm preparing a levain based on Dan Leader's instructions in Bread Alone. He doesn't list percentages, and he doesn't list the weight of the chef with each step. This is a multi-day process, and ...	Looks good to me, Eric.So Looks good to me, Eric. So Leader's starting off with some yeast at day 1? I don't have "Bread Alone", but I read in his other book, "Local Breads", that he doesn't recommend that anymore. It's probably one of the simplest ways to go about it, I think. It was this method that got me going with...
how in the world do you shape the pizza dough ??? I have the pizza dough started from my wild yeast mother starter that I made. I left it for 5 hrs while I went to work and it rose like crazy. But talk about sticky white stuff. This is a mess. I have made reg. yeasted pizza dough for decades. This is a whole new exper...	Spray some oil on top, then Spray some oil on top, then flour/semolina it. Flip it over with wet spatula and you should be good to go. Coincidentally I just made Reinharts BBA pizza dough and it is a pleasure to work with. It rolls very flat if desired and is still easy to work with. D
desem Husband says taste is good this is my first desem loaf. qahtan	crumb question Hey Quahtan, were you happy with the crumb you got for your desem? I made it a few days ago and found it was super super dense, like a brick. I'm trying again tonight with a recipe and method posted by JMonkey, will let you know how that one works out.
Baking soda in sourdough Can someone tell me what the purpose of baking soda is in sourdough bread? I'm making oatmeal sourdough bread from the Bernard Clayton book of Complete Breads, actually have made it once before and found it a bit dry, and there's a tsp. of baking soda in it. I was wondering if that would have...	Baking Soda? I repeat Baking Soda in Sourdough? Sorry but this sounds like some sort of strange sacrelege. It may be an attempt to offset the sour or acid taste. Try leaving it out and retarding the dough overnight. I've been toying with the idea of doing some oatmeal sourdough but haven't gotten around to it as us...
Wild Yeast Pizza...SUCCESS !! lots of pics. Well I worried for nothing. The dough this morning , as you will see was AMAZING. It had risen so high in the fridge overnight. The consistency of the dough was everything I could have desired. I let it rest on the counter for 2 hrs. It was so soft and yet very elastic. I was...	Wow, tasty! I'm hoping to do that soon. I'm making some sauce soon and I have cheese and sausage to use. :)
Please help - leaven has changed - need advice I was wondering what people think of this. I've been using this leaven for about a month now. It was looking fine and then one night I left it out without adding flour and water and the next day it developed an odd looking crust on top. It almost looks like mold but I'm...	Re: Changed leaven Was the lid left off overnight also? It looks crusty and dried out. Whatever the case may be, I would suggest that you scrape off the icky layer and discard it. Then take a clean spoon and scrape off another layer until you expose a part of the starter that still looks good. Take a good spoonful of t...
Some questions from a beginner Hi, i'm Ric from Italy, i love this forum and i would try to ask u something about starters. I will try to use my english skill as better as i can, sorry for any inconvenience. First of all i have a 100% hydratation sourdough with 1:2:2 ratio feedings every 3 days and store in refrigerato...	Here's what I do A lot depends on the temperature in your house.Sourdough cultures do best above 70 degrees F (21.1C)-I forget the exact ideal temperature. I don't use my culture straight from the refrigerator to make bread unless I want to wait days for my bread to rise. Some people do. I make sure my culture is very ...
First wild yeast breads These batards are the first progeny of the sourdough starter i made using gaaarps' tutorial, and also my first 100% wild yeast loaves ever. Basically the loaves are Reinhart's basic sourdough in the BBA, but I substituted whole wheat for 6oz of the bread flour, and also a cold overnight soaker ...	Beautiful loaves What a satisfying start to your wild yeast adventure! Gorgeous! :-Paul
Two Grain Sourdough (Rye & Wheat) I've been actively experimenting with my sourdough this week, trying to come up with various sourdough sandwich breads. This one makes the mark, I think. I'm trying my best to try out whole grains, including rye, oats, and whole wheat. I'm trying to cut down on the purely white bread...	That looks really good. I That looks really good. I would like your recipe if you don't mind.
Underproofed/Overproofed - Sourdough video resources Hello everyone!Recently found The Sourdough Journey YouTube channel and I've been binge watching all the videos.He has an amazing one hour and a half (I know it sound like much, but it's sooooo informative) masterclass video about bulk fermentation...pure gold. Lots ...	more bread channels TFL users:DanAyo: www.youtube.com/channel/UC7mXjnPpTDoVJxRdrG3ZeYw/Alfanso: www.youtube.com/channel/UCN9_G-eUBD5tMnrWItQGUPQ/The Roadside Pie King (Will F.): www.youtube.com/channel/UCocnoxG7aduh6hUqB19UJkQ/Others:Steve Gamelin, no-knead but with yeast, not sourdough. His extremely simple method g...
how to incorporate the firm starter...cutting it in 10 pieces...and ??? So the recipe says to remove the firm starter from the fridge...cut it into 10 pieces....place pieces in mixer w/ dough hook...add salt and water....mix low 2 min...autolyse 5 min...mix low 2 min...mix med high 30 sec...remove and shape into ball.....	Incorporating Firm Stater Did you let your firm starter come to room temperature? It will mix in easier that way. Let it sit out for about an hour after you cut it into pieces. Actually, I don't cut mine up anymore. I get it out of the fridge and let it sit for an hour or so. Then I tear it into pieces as I add it...
When starter takes over... I have almost 1200g of starter that's ready to go into bread in my fridge. I need ideas. I know about the waffles, but I don't have a huge waffle maker. Pancakes? Blueberry muffins? Chocolate cake? I know that at least part of it is going into pizza dough. I'm taking 300g out and mixing that...	Sourdough cookies and... There is a recipe you can search for on this site that uses some disgarded starter in chocolate chip cookies. They are very good. If you can't find it, I can try to get it here later - sorry - short on time at the moment. You can also make pizza crusts to freeze and use later. I've made the ...
Ok, now that we have a sourdough starter ready...... (having a rough day) Ok. I now have a beatiful sourdough starter rearing and ready to go. Today, I took the time and made a motherstarter that is nice and firm and has doubled in size... But what do I do now with the motherstarter? How do I incorporate it into a do...	All You Need (Knead?) is a Recipe CK, your starter is ready to bake into bread. Here is my recipe for Five-Grain Seeded Sourdough bread. If you want to make a basic sourdough bread, just omit the soaker. Phyl
How to soften hard crust I have 5 SD breads, with a good representation of levain premix and straight no-knead, created after realizing I have made way too much starter. While they look marvelous, they suffer from a hard crust that I don't really like. 1) Is there anything I can do now to soften my breads? 2) At the p...	Overnight ...Overnight in a plastic bag, in a room temp area, should soften it nicely.Warming in the Microwave for 20 seconds in a papertowel is nice.
trouble converting batter to firm starter I keep a healthy batter-type starter. It always doubles within a few hours of refreshing. A few days ago, I decided to make a firm starter. I mixed 1 TB of active starter, 1 TB of water, and 1/3c of bread flour. It doubled within a few hours, and quadrupled within eight. Up to ...	Something Mini O told me She's a Stiff Starter Guru in these here parts so she can probably tell you exactly what happened - I won't say "went wrong" because the starter may have been doing fine. Anyway, what she suggested to me when I made stiff starter was that once it's been mixed up nicely, you coat the ball in a d...
Gotta love that discard... Anybody else make the KA sourdough waffles ? They just get better and better. Last night the discard had doubled while it sat on the counter waiting for me to add the waffle ingredients to get it ready to go for this AM. When I came down this AM the bowl was FULL of white sweet smelling "goo"...	Discard Waffles (We Gotta Come Up with a Better Name) Caroline, Those look wonderful! I have a batch sitting on my counter, waiting for the kids to wake up. I'm excited to try them. Phyl
Pain au Levain...using wild yeast I am really hooked on this wild yeast thing. My family is threatening to take away my flour ! This was my culture made into a starter that was aged 3 days in the fridge. I then made the dough...and it retarded 24 hrs. Came to room temp for 4 hrs today and then shaped and rose 1 1/2 hrs...	Very nice indeed Very nice indeed! I bet the family won't take your flour away if you give them a bite of these loaves! You know what I've noticed...my family doesn't threaten to take away my flour...but I pick up vibes and a little voice says..."that's enough talk about bread now!!" don't you love the expressions on...
1st sourdough loaves from wild yeast starter I started these loaves 3 days ago. The wild yeast that I grew from 101 tutorial, THANK YOU PHYL ! , made the base. I then created a firm starter and fermented it at room temp for 4 1/2hrs till it grew 1 1/2X. I then retarded it for 2 days in the fridge. I then created the ...	Excellent result! Good job! I can't wait to see what your next ones look like if these are so good!
I'm puzzled about sourdough terminology I'm dipping my toe in the sourdough waters, and have a couple of questions about terminology and technique. I have begun a starter, using gaaarp's plan of attack, that is bumping along nicely on day four presently, and here I want to thank him for such a coherent tutorial on beg...	Reinhart Barm ...Peter has changed the way he refers to a Barm due to the confusion. Quote: (Peter Reinhart) Once you have established a seed culture you will need to convert it into a mother starter. This is the starter you will keep perpetually in your refrigerator and is the permanent starter from which you will b...
Sourdough vs. Yeast rise times? I need some help with a rising time question. I am going to try an experiment this weekend and bake baguettes using sourdough only and no baker's yeast. I am basing this on Hamelman's Baguettes with Pâte Fermentée and just built my sourdough fermentée. Hamelman's yeasted recipe calls for...	Sourdough Rise Times John, I don't know if there is a rule of thumb per se, but I would at least double your fermentation and proof times. In fact, the sourdough bread recipe I bake most often calls for a 4 hour ferment and 2 to 3 hour proof. The dough should almost double during fermentation and pass the "poke test"...
Tip - Different Levain Calculation % Unfortunately, the percentage of Levain is calculated differently by different bakers.There are two basic methods to describe the Levain.Percentage of the Total Flour weight (Levain is listed as an ingredient)Percentage of Pre-Fermented Flour (PPF)1. Percentage of Total Flour Weight...	Hmmm, well, what to say. 2 Hmmm, well, what to say. 2 questions.Don't you have a spread for this? And doesn't it calculate that for ya? Mine does.Oops that was 2 questions, one more, what does hydration mean to ya? This'll be the interesting one! Enjoy!
Sourdough Croissants So I have been mucking about with my wild yeast sourdough starter a lot over the last few weeks. I made pain poilane, and a traditional american style sourdough, and was thinking..."what else can i do with this starter?" The answer? Sourdough croissants! I know this could fall in the pastry categor...	those are beautiful... those are absolutely gorgeous. I guess it would be too much to ask to post the recipe as I bet it goes on and on....I already have wild yeast going...will have to try these sometime. c
Oh, jeez, as if all of this weren't overwhelming enough! My head is spinning reading tutorials and flowcharts about starters! Lol! I have this question: how much starter do you keep on hand and maintain? I have quite a nice little starter that I captured and it is two weeks old. I can't seem to make more than abou...	Mini-malist Starter I have two starters, and I keep as little of them as possible. My current practice is to only keep what I need to bake with. The basic sourdough recipe I make calls for 4 ounces of starter, so I keep about 2 oz on hand, which I build up to 6 oz. I take 4 oz out to bake with, and store the remaini...
Waste is a four letter word Many members here know my backround comes from the professional baking world with well over 25 years of experience. When working in a professional bakery every ounce of usable ingredient must be incorporated into a sellable product order to keep the bakery profitable. Waste is something not ...	Very good topic ...Agreed, we should cover more on this.In general, how to waste less in the Kitchen.You can find videos on-line of sourdough starter being poured down the sink.Not only is that wasteful but its not real good for your pipes. (Glue) What can't be used should be saved or returned back to nature.
Grapes in yeast starter Hi, New here. Looking to try a yeast starter. I have some wild Oregon grapes that I would like to use. They were picked ripe this fall. They have been frozen. Will these work being frozen. Thanks	One theory is... ... that the yeast on grapes and other fruits is not the same as the yeast that you want for sourdough. So although that will give you some activity at the start, (i.e bubbling and such) this yeast eventually dies off and the real yeast has to then take over anyway. So skip the whole grape thing and go...
question about your techniques of making SD bread? I am curious - what kinds of breads do you make with your sourdough starter? And something else... when you make your breads with sourdough starter, do you use commercial yeast? or do you go without the commercial yeast? If you go without the comm. yeast, does your b...	No Yeast for You! Two Weeks! becky, I never use commercial yeast with my sourdough. My basic sourdough bread employs a 3-4 hour ferment and 2-3 hour proof. And it rises great. If you have an active natural yeast starter, there is no need to use commercial yeast.
Diary of a Starter Hello.This is my first post on this amazing forum so I should probably say a few words about myself before I ask my questions. I haven't purchased a loaf of bread from a store for almost ten years now. It seemed to me that even an average loaf of bread baked at home tasted better than most of the stu...	That is exactly the way I That is exactly the way I make a liquid starter. In the first few days it has those tiny bubbles you see in your picture. When I make a new starter I leave it to this point without feeding and then start feeding once a day like you. If it is very liquid, then after about five days you start st...
After many questions / the first loaves of sourdough bread After many questions and 2 weeks of work I finally baked my first loaves of sourdough using rye seed culture 1/4 cup whole wheat, 1/4 cup coarse rye, and 4 cups KAF unbleached bread flour. Here are the results. Are they OKAY?	Not okay They are way better than okay! That's a great result for your first effort. Congratulations! Paul
Help with starter from fresh fruit! Drawing inspiration from Nancy Silverton's video with Julia Child, I initiated a starter with: 5.5 tbsp unbleached AP flour, 1/4 cup pineapple juice, 300g fresh pineapple in cheesecloth, and about 1/2 cup Dasani water enough to cover the fruit. Within 24 hours, I saw effervescence. ...	Just add flour and stir three Just add flour and stir three times a day. I suggest this: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10166/wild-yeast-levain-sourdough-startert-flowchart
I've created a monster! Well, I made a huge miscalculation when building my starter for Thursday night's bake. I was planning on quadrupling the Vermont Sourdough recipe, but instead of ending up with around 1300 grams tomorrow night, I have 1600 grams tonight! I was just going on autopilot, doubling twice a day, and n...	Stick it in the Fridge Eric, put your starter in the fridge, don't feed it anymore, then use what you need tomorrow. Then rebuild from your remaining 300g. If you don't want to save that much, there are lots of things you can do with starter (pancakes, waffels, quick breads, etc.). Phyl
Globe planetary mixers Can anyone offer any insight on the Globe (SP20) 20qt. mixer for durability and bread making? I've been using an older KA (300+ watt model) mixer which is now starting to make some noise and getting pretty warm after mixing (4) 1000g. loaves. This unit has to be at least 10 years old and has serv...	Apology My apologies for not having posted this question under Baking Equipment.
Inoculation Percentage I have been looking for a sourdough Sandwich bread recipes, and I'd notice that most of them have over 40% Inoculation, saw some ones with 70%, while the classic sourdough bread use around 20%,does this is for flavor, or that amount of starter change the consistence of the crumbs? mean while I ha...	Percentage of Levain Unfortunately, the percentage of Levain is calculated differently by different bakers.There are two basic methods.Percentage of the Total Flour weight (Levain is listed as an ingredient)Percentage of Pre-Fermented Flour (PPF)1. Percentage of Total Flour Weight (Levain is listed as an ingredient)Let...
Some questions for the daily feeding of the sourdough ( From Italy ) Hi at all :-) My name is Alessandro (Sandro for the friends). I'm a new member of this forum and I'm an Italian boy. I have bought my sourdough from "Sourdoughs International". The name is Camaldoli starter and I use it for make the pizza. Unfortunate...	1:2:2 & 1:4:4 and other ratios Welcome to TFL! The numbers refer to feeding ratios. That is 1:2:2 reads: 1 part sourdough starter: two parts water: two parts flour. Use any kind of weight scale you wish. I also use grams. Mini O
Lepard in The Times: Article about freezing dough leaven There's an interesting article by Dan Lepard in The Times about freezing fermented dough leaven. Here's the announcement from his forum: In the Times newspaper today and on their website I've explained in loads of detail my current kitchen method for making sour...	Worth a try Thanks for the links, Hans. Alas, my firewall prevented the photo from showing up, but I did note the following forum comment by Mr. Leader: I need to add that if you taste two loaves side by side - one made with a leaven continuously refreshed and one with this 24 hr reanimated leaven - the best flavour i...
Adjusting Degree of Sourness I've read the posts on the Silesian Sourdoughs, both the light and the dark which are found in Mr. Leaders book. These are two breads next on my list to try. The comments on the light Silesian were that it had a more mild sour taste. Since I prefer a strong sour taste,is there a way to incr...	white rye Ricko, both of those breads are really good, although I prefer the dark Silesian for its stronger flavor. I usually ferment the rye starter for 12 hours or longer before using it -- it becomes quite tangy at that point and imparts that flavor to the bread. I couldn't get quite the same sourness when I used wh...
Changing hydration of rye starter? I've been working on Hamelman's 66% rye sourdough, which uses an 80% hydration rye starter. I'd like to try using a 125% hydration rye starter, as Leader recommends. How would I adjust the formula to compensate for the extra water in the culture?SOL	Hey staff of life, Hey staff of life, I'll take a shot at this, but no guarantees. Let's say you will be using the same amount of final levain, for simplicity's sake 225 grams, to add to your final dough. In 125% hydration you have 225 total parts. Divide 225 grams of levain by 225 parts = 1.0. Your 125% hydration star...
Slow Rising Bread Hello I am a complete beginner in the sourdough world. I am a low budget mamma and can't really buy a established starter; moreover, The Netherlands is a rather difficult place to get nice flours (can you imagine they don't sell WWFlour in the supermarket?!?!?!). Therefore, i started my own, with th...	Slow Rise, Take It Easy P-, patience is a virtue, especially when it comes to sourdough, which rises more slowly than commercial yeast. But don't be too patient. You don't necessarily want to wait for your formed loaves to double. If they do, you may not get much oven spring. The poke test seems to be the best way ...
Stiff starter is slow to rise I've been working with Leader's stiff levain for a few months now and it has always ripened (doubled in volume) within 8-12 hours after feeding. My usual routine has me feeding and baking 2x per week. However, after a few days in the fridge, it seems to be taking its time today. It has ...	What's your kitchen temp like these days? It might simply be that, being winter, your kitchen is just a few degrees on the cool side and the yeasty beasties are a little sleepy and sluggish. If you can find a slightly warmer corner of the house to park your dough, you may see it perk up a little.
Reinhart C&C Baker's Percentage question I am planning on mixing up P. Reinhart's SF Sourdough from C&C and have a silly question relating to Baker's Percentages. I have a spreadsheet set up that I use to convert recipe's to grams and scale it to my needs. In that spreadsheet, I breakout the starter into its flour and ...	Same here John, I have no clue which is 'correct'. Quite possibly neither, or perhaps both. But like you I prefer a BP that accounts for the whole thing, preferments and all. For some reason I get clearer picture of what to expect and it's also easier (for me anyway) to compare formulas, one dough with another. I also...
Help with my proportion I am totally new at sourdough and making my starter. I think that I am succesfull at it since my bread does rise nicely and have a great crumb. However my bread is very Sour.I have a feeling that I am using too much starter as a percentage of my receipe. I read somewhere that I can substitute 15...	help with my proportion Dan, one cup of the starter is one packet of yeast or 2 1/4 teaspoon.If your starter is too sour before it use it feed it with more flour and water that decrease sour.Let say,you have one cup of very sour starter use one cup of flour and water to your hydration. ...
two strikes: brick-like flat loaf plus weird flavor I am relatively new to sourdough. I made a new starter according to Bertinet's directions in Crust, which seemed like it was doing everything right..... until I actually made the loaf! The flavor is like a sweaty sock and the texture, well, that brings me to my nex...	Overripe culture The very sticky dough, the fact that the dough was so slack, the terrible smell/flavor all point to one thing: your culture was overripe when you used it. If you're not sure if the culture is past its prime, work up the gluten in the culture a bit, and then pull on it. In a ripe culture, you should b...
'storing' discarded starter question I've been tossing my discarded starter into a bowl to use later in other recipes (quickbreads, waffles, cookies and the like). During the week when I'm not baking as much, the bowl can get a bit full, plus I always seem to be wanting that bowl for something else, LOL. I have an em...	I don't.... ....but there are those who say that keeping starter in plastic is a no-no. I've got all my starters, 3 of them, in plastic containers and never had any problems.
Question about salt in sourdough mix Hi fellow Loafers,Last week i got a curiously light crumb in my batch of bagels and I couldn't figure out what the heck I did differently to make it that way again. The dough was light and airy after BF , the rings didn't sink for the first 10 secs after hitting the boiling water ,...	Yes. "Can omitting salt make such a huge difference?"Yes. Less salt leads to more fermentation. Salt inhibits yeast, and makes dough tighter.
New to sourdough starters. Would like advice. I am new to sourdough and have been romanced by the concept of using natural levain to make bread. I use local (Ontario, Canada) stone-ground hard whole wheat flour for most of my breads and by following advice on the internet, I have successfully cultured a starter from...	Hummm... doubling in 4 hours Hummm... doubling in 4 hours sounds like a nice active starter to me. Personally I keep my starter at room temperature now and feed it twice a day. It does a good job of leavening the dough. Perhaps there's something else in your process? How I do it is to use the extra 40g from feedi...
Starter maintenance - am I doing something hazardous? Hi, I have been maintaining my starter in a bit of a different way than the 1:2:2 formula usually suggested. Instead of discarding when I haven't used some starter, I just add equal amounts of flour/water to the starter. This is usually ~4 oz. each. Since I usu...	Always at Least Double MommaT, it sounds like you're doing OK. Most of us end up discarding starter (or in my case, adding it to the discard jar to use in other recipes) because our starter grows faster than we bake. You said you add equal amounts of flour and water to your starter. As long as you are at least doubl...
immature starter Q I have a question for anyone who might want to jump in and I'll try to describe the sequence of what I've done to get where I'm at, although I still might wind up sounding confusing. A couple of weeks ago, I started a batch of wild yeast starter. My first couple of days I used some oat flour from my...	Re: Immature starter ? Is your AP flour bleached or unbleached? If it is bleached, that could be part of the reason it is not growing well for you. You can also add a spoonful of WW or rye flour to your feeding of the white starter for awhile to give it a boost. When baking white bread, try subbing out 1/2 cup of the f...
Bread tastes great but came out rather flat Hey all, So I baked my first two loaves of sourdough bread today and they taste great. They even have nice holes. One problem: they ended up spreading out quite a bit. They were more disk and less loaf. Any ideas what I can do? More kneading? Less wet? E	Shaping Maybe more folding? Or shaping them tighter and giving them some support while rising? Did they spread out while rising or in the oven (or both)? Eusebius of Caesarea? The Ecclesiastical History is awesome. I relied on it heavily when doing my thesis, which was on Origen.
Dave, question about sourdough pancakes Hi Dave. I saw on the other forum your post about the sourdough pancakes. I have a question (of course!). haha You said, "This morning, I took a couple of cups of mixed starter discards out of the fridge, added honey, salt, melted butter, and an egg." Did you not add any extr...	sourdough pancakes Hi Bad Cook, when my grandgirls come to spend the night they expect pancakes for Sunday breakfast - I tried making French toast one time and they diplomatically suggested I ask their mother for a recipe! My pancake recipe starts the night before: melt 4oz. butter in 1 cup of milk, cool to room temp. ...
rosemary olive oil sourdough Oh my goodness--I am so excited to share with some folks that might understand--I used my La Cloche baker for the first time yesterday and tried out a rosemary olive oil sourdough bread--it came out so wonderfully! It had such great rise and the crust and crumb were so much better than any...	Beautiful loaf! Rosemary is such a versatile herb. Your crumb looks really good and moist! Congrats! Eli www.elisfoods.wordpress.com
Retarding? Alot seems to be said about retarding and how it improves the final bread taste. Since this is a technique that I know absolutely nothing about, I'll start with a couple simple questions. Having my own dedicated fridge in the basement for my starters that I use, what is the best temperature to strive for thr...	how long do you want to retard how long do you want to retard for all yeast activity stops when the dough is at 32 degrees F thoughout. remember the center takes time to get that cold ether way will work but the shapped dough will get cold faster so you can hold it longer and then just proof and bake you can retard th...
help, advice? whole wheat sourdough bread Hi everyone, I'm new here, so I don't know if there may be some protocol I'm supposed to follow, so forgive me if I jump right in. I have been trying for weeks now (every day or every other day), to get a loaf of 100% whole wheat sourdough out of my oven. No success. I've h...	Sam My approach would be to allow it to bulk rise, first rise. Then, especially since it is a whole wheat, I would gently deflate from the bulk first rise and shape or place in form and allow it a second rise. Once risen, depending on your recipe, I would bake it then. Try that and see how it works for you. Eli www.e...
Question about portions This may be a baking 101 question, but I wanted to know if there are any issues with cutting a bread recipe in half? The recipes I've been following create two 1.5lb loaves. That's just too much for my household. I measure by weight, so does dividing by two create one 1.5lb recipe?	in a word yes!

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