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... | Pina, one of the prosecution's chief witnesses social media records from Facebook and Twitter. And this is a witness who was herself. |
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... | possible again for the lawyers to change it anytime. |
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... | 30 seconds. Right. Do you remember popup ads? The reason we don't have popup ads now is because users could install ad blockers. And those ad blockers... |
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... | the terms of service which said you will render the page the way that is optimal for our shareholders, not for your experience. Right? If we allow firms to dictate one... |
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... | of customers, instead what you end up with is these take it or leave it garbage deals where you have 20,000 words of sprawling legalese that say by being |
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... | Hello, and welcome to the Tech Dirt Podcast. I'm Mike Masnick. |
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... | useful data, it makes it that much harder for accused criminals to prove their side of the case. This whole area of study was kind of new and fascinating to me. |
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... | I have invited Rebecca onto the podcast to talk about it. So welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much. That was a great explanation of the issue. I'm thrilled to be here. |
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... | Well, all right, there we go. If we have a great explanation, we can just stop So so let's start |
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... | with the basics. Can you explain sort of, you know, what's happening? You had told me about this and I thought it was really interesting, that it was worth discussing on the podcast. |
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... | employing some youthful marketing whizzes could make quite a difference. Well it's funny. |
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... | mention that because that ad from 89 that was embedded in the story. |
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... | really good. I mean, I thought that could cross right over to today. It was quirk. |
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... | all about you know I wanted to listen a couple times because |
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... | that yeah i don't know i mean if they think they do a lot in that little ads |
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... | So I actually agree with John. |
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... | I think there's some good stuff in there. Now. |
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... | and what you could do 30 years ago. |
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... | call that, that can, can, you can continually update and, and innovate on it. And I will note that part of the reason why Moxie is able to build his thing is |
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... | He has a whole bunch of money right now, which came from Facebook. Not directly, but there are reasons why these things happen. |
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... | and be succeeded by a monster is I think not a thing that we should be trusting significant parts of internet infrastructure to. |
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... | he likes. Now let's subject your eugenics theories to the same scrutiny that we subjected the rest of it to, right? And so we don't know what we're going to do. |
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... | that you're good at everything. And I think that's why we do need pluralism and decentralization. Not because smart people aren't smart, but because they can sometimes be really foolish. |
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... | the ability for, you know, if a group is, or an individual is making bad or dangerous decisions, the ability to move and lead. |
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... | that nobody cares about and nobody reads, I have trouble taking them seriously as a contract in the normal sense of a contract. And it's not like... |
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... | Like if you don't like the terms of service of a Facebook that you can call up Zuck and say, hey, I'm going to cross out section 2B. |
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... | and I'd like to write in this, that's not the way it works. And so it's not a contract in the traditional sense. And so I don't think there's much value. |
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... | We rely on a privacy policy as our privacy policy globally. The funny thing is, a privacy... |
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... | like how are you organizing yourself? Are you making like 20 times more than, you know, another employee, maybe one that is a woman or a person of color? |
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... | Those are things that are really important to think about. |
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... | when Flauber came out after seeing the original, but it was decent. |
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... | some money but he's not got a problem with it. So it's a little bit too, I think with my partner but all of you get, you know, funding to just want to see... |
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... | with people think about Markz's targeting against federated programs. Yeah, and Markz had this blog post that gets thrown at me somewhat frequently. |
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... | And I've taken to throwing it back to people when people ask what are the challenges to this approach, I will point them to Moxies. It's a very well written and very thoughtful blog post about this. |
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... | the difficulties of protocols and it's really a governance question that he's pointing out and it's worth reading and we're thinking about. |
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... | You know, it's not easy and I'm not saying that it is like this like, you know, hey, yes, Tennessee That's the word I was thinking of |
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... | mentioned it is that I've been having conversation after conversation about what does this look like, how would this actually happen? And I'll |
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... | go down a path and I'll have brainstorming conversation after brainstorming conversation and every one of them goes in the same way where it's like well okay if you focus on identity as like |
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... | on data storage and data bank where someone can host their own data. And then you go down this path and you say, oh, well, there's a problem. Every one of these approaches. |
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... | And one of them, you know, |
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... | with that sort of decrease the need for a Facebook. I mean, so there's an interesting point in there, which is that to some extent for many people and for many services. |
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... | though why that was useful and why that happened. There are a bunch of companies and not companies but organizations or groups of people who are trying to build. |
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... | of an identity layer, it's a very very very difficult problem. It has been tried in many many different ways and it has failed in many many different ways. |
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... | But yes, I mean, you know, in theory, if someone could do that well, that would be a very useful service and could, you know, lessen the need for a... |
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... | So I want to return briefly to the theme of competition here because there's a related subject which is that if you're not paying for the product you'll be |
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... | product. This is the thing we often hear. And there's the conclusion that some people draw is if only you would pay for Facebook, then Facebook wouldn't be incentivized to do this. |
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... | The fact that you need to pay John Deere technicians to come out and enter an unlock code before the part that you yourself installed in your tractor's engine. |
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... | is not a reflection of the fact that John Deere is giving away free tractors. Those are three to five hundred thousand dollars pieces of equipment which still treat you as the product. |
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... | So to the extent that firms are allowed to treat you as the product, to the extent that Apple can rope you into, say, paying monopoly rents for repairs or... |
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... | can extract rents out of their software vendors by guaranteeing that there's only one store that iOS users can use, they will still treat you as the product. Right? |
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... | that the issue here is not advertising, nor is it not, not is it the absence of advertising. It is the absence of any fear that they face competitive pressure from. |
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... | before you trust anything. And that's actually, that's Ali of Smy, and Mo Lely is like, well, you know, that sounds like a really cool app, bro, but where are you getting your money? |
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... | Elijah would like imagining the dog talking. |
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... | how important that is, I think. |
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... | and services tour obviously that makes that happen. |
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... | And those exist and those are a good thing but they're not providing the same kinds of services, I think, as what everyone is talking about here. |
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... | And that will end the idea of getting data from people. So the idea would be if everybody had their own control of their identity in some sense. |
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... | harass her. So imagine that Cecil and the 10 other people who are situated like her could set up a mastern on instance and with or without Twitter's cooperation could |
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... | federated with Twitter. They could still be part of our conversation, but they could have a set of rules that reflected their local situation. They could trust each other to accept screenshots. |
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... | They could not delete DMs, even when the remote party deleted the DM. They can have their own rules, right, about what happened in their corner of |
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... | 2.5 billion users generate 2,501 in a million use cases every day. It's tens of thousands of edge cases, one in a million edge cases. |
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... | that benefit them and everyone else's cost. I mean, it is possible to make state rules that make sense. We're not all dead of cholera. And yet there is... |
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... | for the platforms. And I think when we are talking, you know, talk about protocols, it sounds really appealing to say like, oh, well, you know, it's just post. |
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... | is actually a great example of that. They have Reddit moderators, mods, who oversee the different communities and you sort of trust that mod to look over what is acceptable. |
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