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there's like this weird balancing act that has to go on and-
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it's kind of akin to the whole content moderation question that-
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social media companies deal with in terms of how do you deal-
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who is a bad actor and who's actually acting legitimate. it's-
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and yet there's really no way to know right now-
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but, it would be interesting if under-
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california's law, which i think, there are lots of problems with the law and i've talked about that in the past, but it-
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sounds like certainly could be a potentially useful thing if they had to at least reveal who they're sharing the data with and which data that is.
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to be able to figure out just, you know, all the
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companies that you interact with to
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along if you could kind of map it out and see oh
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wow like there's a company like sift there's a company like this that's uh...
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I know that's kind of what CCPA is trying to do or was originally when it was
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Companies don't have to tell you exactly who they pass your data along to. They give you categories of companies that they've passed it to.
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yeah. i mean, it does raise other issues, right?-
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and this has been the concern with data brokers in the past and credit scoring companies too, which are a related class-
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of companies in that they have a lot of information on you that they may not reveal and they're scoring it in some way or another-
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i think most people certainly understand credit scoring-
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but there are also all of these different stories of how those companies-
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that all these companies that were saying, you were one of the first, or single digit numb-
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where people had requested their data. i assume that many of them may have-
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Yeah, I'm working on a follow-up piece about that as sift told me.
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on that first day after the article was published by lunchtime.
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they already had over 8,000.
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requests for data. And I know they've had to hire a third party now to help them process the data.
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I think a lot of the companies were kind of...
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You know dozens if not hundreds of more companies and they're kind of in
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industry and we just we don't know who they are.
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I think that might be part of California's privacy law that data brokers need to be part of a directory.
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But yeah, I do know these companies were were very overwhelmed by
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and i kind of feel like-
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on the side of the consumer facing companies, i would like to know who it is that airbnb is sharing data with. and even if-
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i think like, it sounds like-
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but, the fact that you don't know which data it is and who it is that they're sharing with. that seems like the thing that-
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was most eyeopening to me. and the thing that made me most interested in how these things work-
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ordeal. that there's a lot of finger-pointing that goes on where companies that you think probably should be classified as-
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i think that's a way that a lot of companies are trying to effectively pass the buck when they receive these kinds of-
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to data processor, we're not a data controller.
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parties to assess, you know, risk and fraud and dada dada. What that really means is there's this third party company you've never heard of that have all
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All the messages that you've sent on Airbnb.
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broadens the attack surface in terms of how your data could be compromised.
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and phone number or things like that.
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not like the contents of my private me-
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messages or whatever.right.and so that part, i definitely-
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wonder. it's like, okay. even if i believe, not that i'm posting that much sensitive stuff to airb-
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i mean, there are certainly cases where that would be where you might and-
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you can think that maybe airbnb can protect this-
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data but, how well will some third party company that you don't even know has access to the data? how will they protect it? and you think-
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that's definitely a concern that's raised by the article.
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you know if you want to talk about privacy and so I
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than your times. And he said, you know, there are people have, you know, look.
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good at their jobs and doing background checks on people.
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But yeah, they were very transparent all along the way.
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and rather to the companies that they are
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these are storing with us. You should be going to those comments.
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companies directly. But how are you even supposed
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to know, they're not giving me a list of the companies whose data about me.
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they hold. So it was a more frustrating process with other companies.
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this goes beyond just this.
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the gdpr in particular, they define-
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different classes of companies. and there's data processors and data control-
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not the data processors, but nobody's entirely clear over who is-
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actually who, and this is a bigger-
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these companies would have to reveal at least something about the scoring process.
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which would be interesting as well.
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one of the things that struck me as interesting about the article-
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i'm not surprised that company has come-
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in for criticism because of it. it did strike me in reading that-
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article, that the company was very straightforward with you, that they did give you all this-
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information. they explained pretty much everything about why they had it and how they're using it and-
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in the article. i think like i went through this semi rollercoaster ride-
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messaging with this other company, but i-
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then appreciated the way sif was very open with you, in talking to you and explaining how this was used-
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and they didn't seem defensive at all. i don't know.
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maybe that's just my read on the article. i don't know if you felt that they were more defensive-
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a lot more defensive. at least that was the impression i got from the article. is that your experience as well?
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with SIFT was, so I made these data requests and basically all the companies told me, you know, we've
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I was like, hey, and I'd done this with my personal email address, not with my New York.
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Just wanted to see if you had any questions about your word or
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it is the fact that your experiences in one place say-
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use this stolen credit card on your help when you tried to book an Airbnb in my life.
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in that scenario, it feels a lot more legitimate.
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you actually see the potential benefits of this setup where the idea that-
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really the closest I came to that was seeing fifth scores they don't I think
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is that most of the time they're just going to kind of spit data back to you and they don't necessarily tell you, you know, what decisions they made based on
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For example, if you go to a Best Buy and you're trying to return this, like, I don't know.
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I'll give you a little receipt with retail equations.
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line in the transaction number, a new call retail equation and say, hey, why wasn't I able to return this to Best Buy?
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So that part of it is, I think.
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There's transparency. It's not a true transparency where they're explaining how they reach the decision about yet.
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reveal that there's this other company that's making that judgement.
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in my head i assumed that they just didn't even tell you. you didn't even know that it was some other company, or even-
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that there was a reason why you couldn't return something. but that's interesting that they revealed-
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they still don't explain actually how they came to that conclusion.
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but for more algorithmic transparency too. and i could see if any of those became law that then-
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This is on the day devoted to gratitude, but even that thing.
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Even that was scored as high and that sifted determined it was, you know, basically really.
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me sending these messages.
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interesting to me. you mentioned that you didn't have any idea that anyone else would see these messages and-
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when you sign up for one of these services-
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