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4,701 | daddit | Do you post to Daddit, or are you just coming in from r/all? Because I think someone familiar with the sub this was posted in would understand. I'm just a dad sharing an inspiring moment observing my son. And my intent was to possibly get a few replies of other people whose children behave in interesting ways so we could maybe discuss where our children's personalities come from. Believe me, if I was actively trolling for controversy I wouldn't have picked "Daddit" as the place to plant my trigger bomb. I'm not saying what you are saying is wrong though. Objectively speaking, this could look like a baited trap, but believe me, I feel like it was really a trap that *I* fell into. |
4,702 | daddit | Isn't that the best evidence? |
4,703 | daddit | Your inability to accept the possibility that gender roles are largely part of our evolution is frustrating. There are always going to be outliers and people who are different and they should never be treated with anything but respect, but to say his gender role is forced on him is just ignorant. I guarantee you've never been around a group of kids. Boys and Girls are just different. Not all, but many. |
4,704 | daddit | I'm not entirely sure what that means, to be completely honest. We just raise our children. It's not like I command my boy to wrestle me and then force my girls to go collect flowers. I just come home from work in the evenings and my boy wants to tackle me to the floor and my girls are out by the road making bouquets for their mother. It's just who they are. I know the question of Nature vs. Nurture is a big one, and I'm sure there is some natural encouragement that goes on, even if it's only indirectly by them knowing that mom is a girl and she acts one way and dad is a boy and he acts another. But in our case, we have a little boy that actively pursues very "Boy" activities and attitudes, and every other girl and boy in our family has tried to encourage him away from them. But he is drawn to them anyway. Because it's just in him to do so. |
4,705 | daddit | You're one to talk claiming you are two different genders and 3 different ages |
4,706 | daddit | Stop it. |
4,707 | daddit | I am actually interested in evidence and not here to downvote you. |
4,708 | daddit | Nobody gives a shit |
4,709 | daddit | Fuck you, Y chromosome! |
4,710 | daddit | *Triggered* |
4,711 | daddit | He's a child. Ffs. Wait for puberty at least before spazzing out. |
4,712 | daddit | lol How is this even remotely unbelievable? |
4,713 | daddit | Sure thing, go grab daddy a cold one. |
4,714 | daddit | What picture? |
4,715 | daddit | Reddit comments lately have been a pit of loosely or completely unrelated personal anecdotes. It's pretty irritating TBH. |
4,716 | daddit | That's usually the case on reddit. Comments filled with nothing but personal anecdotes. |
4,717 | daddit | /r/mildlyinteresting |
4,718 | daddit | [removed] |
4,719 | daddit | [That entire video is fascinating. I highly recommend that you guys watch it if you haven't yet -- it's only like 2 minutes.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFACrIx5SZ0) |
4,720 | daddit | Just look at it like this, for a lot of things YOU get to be the one to introduce something to them. So, if there first experience is going to you and trying to help, even if they are doing a shit job, and you react angerly or badly twoards it...they will not have a good experience. But if you make it a fun learning experience they will be more willing to learn and do cool stuff! It all adds up |
4,721 | daddit | Not a lot of choices out there for a 57 Cadillac |
4,722 | daddit | *then |
4,723 | daddit | Just keep them away from the flat screen |
4,724 | daddit | I'm watching the smurfs with my son for the 2nd time today and probably 20th this week. HELP! |
4,725 | daddit | We slipped number 3 past the goalie Don't try and chase the sex of the baby , it isn't worth it |
4,726 | daddit | [deleted] |
4,727 | daddit | > I definitely have a "Tomboy" in the mix, but she's also the one that is obsessed with rainbows and unicorns. And thus Kaylee from Firefly is born! |
4,728 | daddit | My wife is a beautiful woman, but she's far from a traditional girly girl. She doesn't wear dresses or jewelry, she doesn't have 89396 pairs of shoes or do make up every day. I'm a giant bald beast of a man, nothing girlie here. We're both super progressive liberal types. When we had our daughter we consciously didn't force pink princess stuff on her. We got her all kinds of toys including some "boy" toys. She played with everything until maybe 2.5/3 years old at which point she decided she was a princess and everything had to be pink or red. And the more sparkly the better. She loves necklaces, bracelets, hair accessories. She has dozens of "princess dresses" and she insists on wearing them all the time. She'll change and immediately run to a mirror to check herself out. If it's not just right she'll go change until it is. This is who she is. She told us with her actions and her words. This is who she is without any direction from us at all. And we've embraced it. Which I think is the key. Our job as parents is to make sure our kids survive to adulthood with all the knowledge and skills needed to make good decisions and to be a fully self-sufficient, functioning, productive member of society, while allowing them to decide who they want to be while and when they grow up. We're expecting a son soon and we'll take the same approach. If he wants to throw/kick balls and play cops and robbers all the time, great! If he wants to play dress up princesses like his big sister? Fine. He will be whoever he wants to be, just like her, and that's how it should be. If people are shitting on you for your post they either don't understand or are choosing to flick their "in offended" nerve a few times to pump themselves up enough to virtue shame internet strangers. Best to ignore them and move on. |
4,729 | daddit | They're just silly. In my college studies we learned about how at around age 5 girls and boys behave in very stereotypical roles and segregate themselves into groups despite experiments trying to prevent it. It's okay to be a girl or a boy, saying otherwise is just dumb. |
4,730 | daddit | Ignore the downvotes, I don't think you're saying that traditional gender roles are better or worse in any way. Or that they're inherent in all children. Kids that conform to traditional gender roles are just as worthy as kids that don't conform at all. |
4,731 | daddit | (I'm a mom) we have two boys. The first 8-9 years of their life their father was a sahd and i was in the Air Force. We've never had cable and they grew up in a pretty gender nyetral environment. They are both very much typical boys. (The only exception being a love of my little pony, which I guess is actually more normal than one would think). They, like your son it seems, we're never forced either way but just instinctively wanted "boy" things. There is nothing at all wrong with that. People comparing girls being tomboy to this are a bit off the mark in my opinion. I was a tomboy, still am. Truth is girls get way more positive feedback in general for breaking gender roles. This was part of my determination to be positive in any unboyish behavior my sons had, I wanted them to feel equally free to express themselves as I did. At the end of the day, still stereo typical boys, and I'm fine with that. There is nothing wrong with them, and it makes me angry that people try to imply there is. Good for you for posting this, nothing wrong with being proud of your kid doing something useful and helpful, nothing wrong with men and nothing shameful about masculinity. |
4,732 | daddit | People who don't accept gender roles, generally probably don't have multiple kids to interact with. If you don't think there is a difference in gender and how it affects our personalities go to a kindergarten class and just watch. I have a hard time believing the majority of the girls act the same and the majority of the boys act the same just because all of their parents are forcing societal views on them. It's alright that there are outliers as well, nothing wrong with a feminine boy or masculine girl. Just not the norm. |
4,733 | daddit | > I've gotten a few downvotes on my comments I'm surprised you haven't been banned for assuming your children's genders. |
4,734 | daddit | Most societal changes happen too fast at first and then level off. Right now it's all "stop forcing roles on my kids!!" and at times not allowing the kids to actually maybe like what they are being told is forced on them. Sooner or later we will figure it out and have a nice middle road. Look at the 70's. People went nuts with sexual freedoms but it leveled off soon after. Ideally it should be more about letting the kids enjoy what it is they enjoy doing. Forcing non-gender roles is just as harmful. |
4,735 | daddit | [deleted] |
4,736 | daddit | By stating that your boy's (or any other boy's) behavior is 'natural', it necessarily implies that other behavior is less natural or unnatural. I'm pretty certain that wasn't your intent, but I think that's what people are taking issue with; the word 'natural' is more loaded than saying something like 'how boys tend to behave', which is more of a dispassionate observation. |
4,737 | daddit | oh what a surprise your post set up this little soapbox nice job bro youre a real reddit pro |
4,738 | daddit | Our jobs as parents is to help our children become the best versions of their selves. My girls do play with cars and planes, my boy does play dolls with his sisters. I have no issue with either. But the girls will look at dolls at the store and the boy goes for hot wheels. |
4,739 | daddit | As a "manly" man who likes guns, trucks and motorcycles. Who grew up on a farm and fixes all the broken shit in my house. I can say confidently it's fucking awesome watching my daughter grow into a person and I can't wait to have a son if it's in my cards. I am fine with however they turn out, gender roles or not, but it's just cool as shit watching their personalities grow on their own. |
4,740 | daddit | > he came up with it entirely in a vacuum So you don't let him watch TV? Or leave the house? |
4,741 | daddit | The best reason to know him. |
4,742 | daddit | I think he looks more like Craig t Nelson |
4,743 | daddit | I know him from early seasons of Criminal Minds. He was great on that show. |
4,744 | daddit | With that facial expression, he kinda looks like Robert De Niro |
4,745 | daddit | I miss Gideon. He was the truth. |
4,746 | daddit | We do this also! breakable, dangerous things are in two locked cabinets, but the rest of the kitchen is free range. It has so far been a success. Well except for the incident involving the beaters and the cat... Well there was also the rice bag that came open.. Well and.....Never mind. It's has not been as good as I thought. |
4,747 | daddit | Whoa, never heard that about soap. Any source on that? A few weeks ago my son got into some liquid hand soap and ate it (which could not have tasted good). From the googling I did at the time, it didn't seem like a huge deal. He never had any symptoms, but I'm pretty sure I caught him right as he was getting into it. Maybe it could have been much worse. :/ |
4,748 | daddit | Good luck for the next few days. |
4,749 | daddit | I'm sure others have told you and I wish I took the advice of other moms but make sure you sleep whenever the baby sleeps. I know that you'll want to have your "me time" especially if you're breastfeeding but take that time to sleep. You'll heal a lot quicker and not be as miserable. |
4,750 | daddit | They're too busy fighting the patriarchy, obviously. |
4,751 | daddit | My anecdote should come with a trigger warning then, I guess. My three year old son is in the four year old pre-K program at daycare, and he is the only boy out of the nine kids in the class. Last week they were learning about different occupations, and Wednesday they did construction workers. The teacher lays out these paper tools to show them what's what, and my son grabs the tape measure and says, "I'm the guy, so I'd better handle the tape measuring." My wife and I share the majority of household duties, so we were a little shocked that he'd say something like that - but we figured it was because I do a lot of "construction" type work in my career. Teacher thought it was hilarious. |
4,752 | daddit | I'm married to a super-duper feminist (god it's fucking exhausting, by the way) and yet she loves to cook and clean, but is completely useless when it comes to technology or fixing *anything* around the house. I doesn't seem to want it any other way. Some of us happen to reflect gender norms. I'm a manly man and I sometimes hem curtains. BFD. |
4,753 | daddit | damn straight Why boys can't be boys and girls can't be girls anymore is well beyond me and why parents are critized for (encouraging) it. |
4,754 | daddit | never let yourself be shamed. it is subtle control |
4,755 | daddit | I'd upvote this more if I could :) Our youngest (1 year old) is like yours. He *loves* the dishwasher haha -- but at the moment he's not quite old enough to help fixing it, he's more into closing it for me, or helping me take dishes (and occasionally knives, erk!) out, and bringing them to set the table. It will actually stop him from crying when he's having a tantrum: "Liam, hey, it's OK, hey, can you help papa take these spoons to the table?" and he will suddenly go calm and get to work helping me out. He also loves vacuuming. He will spend half a freaking hour pushing the switched off vacuum around the floor. Ahh love kids. :D |
4,756 | daddit | Well, in people's defense, I think it's actually the opposite. I think people are taking issue with my use of the word "naturally", and are taking it to mean that kids are born a certain way and not shaped by their environment. I think. I honestly, am a little lost, both in regards to what I was actually saying, and the arguments people have about it being wrong. |
4,757 | daddit | They are, but not by the home environment. |
4,758 | daddit | two girls and a boy also, all different, would describe my youngest daughter as "dramatic". |
4,759 | daddit | >cringe Why? |
4,760 | daddit | I agree. Besides, I enjoy the bonding time I get with her pretending to tighten up the bolts on her little tykes car. Maybe she will be a mechanic or engineer or something haha. |
4,761 | daddit | I don't think it's unusual to expect that some of that behavior is learned. EDIT: and I now have two hilariously stupid, and yet diametrically opposing, responses: one accusing me of indoctrinating my son subconsciously with masculinity, and the other telling me I'm a hippie and that hippies are dumb. God dammit, Reddit. This is why we can't have nice things. |
4,762 | daddit | > I had nightmares of coming home and finding my son wearing one of their pink tutus. Why? |
4,763 | daddit | Sorry but I think he meant it the other way |
4,764 | daddit | [deleted] |
4,765 | daddit | Oh come on, have you even *met* most little boys? |
4,766 | daddit | Brother I tell you it’s hard, when his dad is around enough for him to still be a part of his life but not enough that he disappoints the kid. I have a picture somewhere, I was putting up a light on the outside of my girlfriends moms garage and he climbed up the ladder behind me and cried when I had him come down, him standing infront of me changing light fixtures in my house or playing with my tools while I clean out my bag. I appreciate his curiosity and I’m looking forward to when he’s a bit older and we can expand more on it. He just turned 6 about two weeks ago and I’m anxious awaiting him finding his hobbies and interests more as he grows and bugging me with them 24/7. Right now, his whole room is Mario themed. |
4,767 | daddit | There are absolutely no absolutes. My wife enjoys the outdoors and there are plenty of girls who enjoy poking dead things with sticks. But as a general rule of thumb... |
4,768 | daddit | FYI - I don't care about this topic of conversation one way or the other and I'm not the right person to get into it with you or anyone else, but 'Science Daily' is not a credible source for information. The single source they list is also not too terrific, which is often the problem with 'professional business blog' sites like that. There's usually no real source or the source is flimsy at best. Sites like that are just in the business of getting clicks, not informing the public. Here's a helpful link to go through to help with finding and presenting more credible sources; https://www.college.columbia.edu/academics/integrity-sourcecredibility |
4,769 | daddit | for shits and giggles I went through 3 random people who didn't seem to be regulars... yup. Not dads. Never posted here before. Funny that. I guess they randomly came across this title... :/ |
4,770 | daddit | Don't forget that we "teach" kids constantly, no matter whether we are intentionally doing it or not. If your favorite things were watching Ellen and wearing princess dresses, what do you think he'd gravitate toward? |
4,771 | daddit | Oh, I agree completely. Of course this will probably never be known fully because how the heck would we test it? "Clean slate" is probably a bit extreme of a term to use but I do think that 99.9% of "nature" is subsumed by "nurture." |
4,772 | daddit | Until there's physical proof otherwise, it is. Which does not imply it's changeable through willpower no matter what Mike Spence says. |
4,773 | daddit | [deleted] |
4,774 | daddit | Source? |
4,775 | daddit | That's.... a strange citation. Why the heck would male chimps identify with cars? That's part of human culture, not an inherently male object. Edit: were the scientists Saudi Arabian? |
4,776 | daddit | [deleted] |
4,777 | daddit | You can only conclude his *sex* from what you see when you change his diaper, not his gender. A person's gender is a social characteristic, not a biological one. Anyway, it's cool that your son is a born handyman, and I absolutely agree with your assumption that, for whatever reason, boys are far more likely than girls to be fascinated with technological objects regardless of socialization. |
4,778 | daddit | Oh yeah, you're right I did come from r/all. Makes more sense in context. And now that I've reconsidered I've realised I'm wrong in saying that this happening shouldn't be significant to you because he's a young child trying to help with something he knows absolutely nothing about and that's purely adorable. Sorry for scrutinising! |
4,779 | daddit | We have the best anecdotes. |
4,780 | daddit | Yes many boys and girls do act differently from one another. Because they are raised differently and their environment helps shape their unique personality. Society communicates to different genders in a certain way and children will pick up on that. On top of that boys tend to more attention to their fathers and follow their social cues, while girls follow their mothers. Children are always learning and that helps shape their personality. If gender isn't shaped by the environment then why do women in Saudi Arabia act differently to women in the US? They're both women so they should act in exactly the same way, right? |
4,781 | daddit | I was just curious because I've become very aware of gender roles now that I have a daughter. I don't want her to be girly unless she wants to be. I don't want to treat her in any way because of her gender; like how people will let a boy fall and pick himself up because he's a boy, but may dote on a girl more.. "poor baby!" |
4,782 | daddit | [deleted] |
4,783 | daddit | How is this even remotely believable? (See how this game works?) |
4,784 | daddit | Doesn't look like anything to me. |
4,785 | daddit | thank you for sharing your feelings |
4,786 | daddit | On a scale from 0 to America, how irritated are you |
4,787 | daddit | You made a great deal of generalizations about me and my life based solely on a caption to a picture. You seem to have taken very little information and filled in the voids with the very thing that you dislike most. Why not assume something better? Maybe we have more in common than you think, and I'm not someone you hate? If it eases your mind at all, I myself am not a "Typical" guy. I am quiet and keep to myself, and have no interest in tools and wrestling and things like that. I'm not loud and aggressive or feel the need to dominate or control anyone. I'm an engineer, but I'm an engineer that spent his childhood reading and writing and pursuing art. I was teased in school. People said I was gay. I shrugged this off. So, now I'm a grown man with a wife and three children, the first two are girls. We homeschool. I tell my children every day that they can become whatever they want to in life. I see my role in the home as a conduit to help guide them to where they want to go in life, and to support them to be who they want to be. I expose them to many things, often things I do not have any interest in myself, simply so they can see them and make up their own minds. I regularly play music in the car that I do not enjoy and force myself to be neutral about my personal opinion, because I want them to decide for themselves. I know my children will someday be better than I am. They will accomplish so more than I have. That is my only goal. I picture myself as nothing more than the combustible fuel that is powering their acceleration into the stars. Someday my children will be talked about in books and I will be forgotten, but that would make me prouder than anything else in the world. Or they will choose to live a quiet life, and that will make me equally proud. I do not force myself upon my children. In fact, I actively shield them from people that would force them. I work hard as a father, like most other fathers (especially the ones I see on r/Daddit). As a father I walk a thin line between guidance and freedom. And I'll gladly take any abuse this might garner from the public, as long as it is shielding my children. This post was simply the export from the mind of a man that had literally stayed up all night working on traffic analysis reports to support his family. I was taking a break to share a picture of my son with some friends on Daddit and share some stories observing the behavior of our children. I am really just a Dad that is proud of his kids, and eternally fascinated by how intrinsically different my young man is from my young girls. I realize that my observations are not proof of all children. I realize that my children are not the same as every child. But I enjoy seeing these shades and contrasts of personality. And it's striking how my son is so much more "Boy" and my girls are so much more "Girl". and it's especially fascinating to me that my son would be so "masculine" when I myself, his lens through which he sees masculinity, is so far from typical. So, do not worry. I am not brainwashing my daughters to be barefoot and pregnant, and I'm not telling my son that he has to love tools and guns and fart jokes. I'm just a father that loves watching his children and loves mentally struggling to put together the puzzles of who they are and why. That's all. |
4,788 | daddit | Is this sarcasm? |
4,789 | daddit | I was surprised you took this long to get here. 16 comments in before you showed up. and look at how defensive to got the OP after playing that gender card? He's freaking out trying to explain something why boys like fixing things to you before you label him an "ism" and smear his whole post. |
4,790 | daddit | The "two minutes" was actually a great selling point. |
4,791 | daddit | I learned how to fix a lot of stuff while getting yelled at. |
4,792 | daddit | That makes sense. |
4,793 | daddit | Relevant username |
4,794 | daddit | *Life doesn't need you |
4,795 | daddit | We need more people like you here on reddit, I remember a time when a post with a grammatical error would be downvoted to hell, don't listen to the other guy |
4,796 | daddit | > People definitely do not like the idea that sexes have any non socially caused gender differences. This is a huge part of the problem. Some little girls like pink things and ponies. Others, like my 6-year-old niece, love military aircraft - Uncle Cow_Launcher [supports and facilitates this](http://i.imgur.com/R2HdDkV.jpg). So we've got people who are championing girls and saying that we mustn't apply gender roles to them. Fair enough. But then they get upset and scream "sexism" when some of those girls, (my other nieces) really *do* love princesses and taffeta? Not cool. It's one thing to want equality. Totally get that, totally behind it. It's quite another to demand that these children behave in a way that supports an ideology, to the extent that people put little boys in dresses in the hope that their point will be validated. *Let them be themselves.* If my niece wants to fly combat aircraft and my nephew wants to bake cakes, so be it! Stop forcing the issue. |
4,797 | daddit | > Our daughter is only a few months but I am very curious to see how she ends up. This is the strangest sentence I've read today, and I can't explain why. For some reason I'm picturing her off in a corner with you just standing there with your arms crossed impatiently waiting for her to be older. |
4,798 | daddit | Kids like what kids like. My daughter loves dress up, dolls and ponies, but she also loves getting dirty, playing ball, motorcycles and tools. I think exposing them to all sorts of things can never be a bad thing, just helps them become a well rounded individual. |
4,799 | daddit | Yep, we see this with our son. When he was very young he lived with us full time (we're two women, co-parenting with a gay couple but living in separate homes). Neither my wife nor I care much for cars or soccer and we never pushed any specific toys towards him. We let him figure out what he wanted. Even his dads (who have always been around even when he wasn't living with them) don't like either of those things. Yet they've been his favourite things in the world since before he could even talk. Kids will like what they like I guess. Best thing is probably to expose them to as many things as possible. If they like something a lot, just go with it and support them, even if it's not your thing. Edit: oops, not 'your' son, 'our' son. We're not secretly stalking your family or anything.... |
4,800 | daddit | > People definitely do not like the idea that sexes have any non socially caused gender differences I think many people readily accept that, but also understand that determining whether a particular behavior has a physiological basis is *very* difficult. Social cues are pervasive and don't necessarily work in a straightforward way, so it's nearly impossible to unpack. It's also quite obvious that there's lots of variation within each sex, such that there's significant overlap between them. The point is to keep people from feeling excluded if they don't lie near the mode of behavior distribution. If the normal behavior is 'natural', doesn't that necessarily imply that other behavior is unnatural? |
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