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Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | but you write in your paper an automated mechanism design | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:43:27.600 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | that I quickly read. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:43:31.440 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | So mechanism design is designing the rules of the game | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:43:34.000 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | so you get a certain desirable outcome. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:43:37.880 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | And you have this work on doing so in an automatic fashion | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:43:40.200 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | as opposed to fine tuning it. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:43:44.920 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | So what have you learned from those efforts? | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:43:46.720 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | If you look, say, I don't know, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:43:50.680 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | at complexes like our political system, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:43:52.280 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | can we design our political system | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:43:56.200 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | to have, in an automated fashion, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:43:58.560 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | to have outcomes that we want? | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:01.800 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Can we design something like traffic lights to be smart | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:03.360 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | where it gets outcomes that we want? | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:09.000 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | So what are the lessons that you draw from that work? | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:11.800 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Yeah, so I still very much believe | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:14.840 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | in the automated mechanism design direction. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:17.240 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Yes. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:19.400 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | But it's not a panacea. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:20.840 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | There are impossibility results in mechanism design | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:23.000 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | saying that there is no mechanism that accomplishes | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:26.520 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | objective X in class C. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:30.240 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | So it's not going to, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:33.920 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | there's no way using any mechanism design tools, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:36.120 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | manual or automated, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:39.000 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | to do certain things in mechanism design. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:41.000 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Can you describe that again? | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:42.800 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | So meaning it's impossible to achieve that? | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:43.800 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Yeah, yeah. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:47.480 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | And it's unlikely. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:48.320 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Impossible. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:50.440 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Impossible. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:51.280 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | So these are not statements about human ingenuity | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:52.120 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | who might come up with something smart. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:55.240 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | These are proofs that if you want to accomplish | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:57.120 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | properties X in class C, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:44:59.880 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | that is not doable with any mechanism. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:02.480 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | The good thing about automated mechanism design | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:04.880 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | is that we're not really designing for a class. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:07.080 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | We're designing for specific settings at a time. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:10.840 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | So even if there's an impossibility result | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:14.160 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | for the whole class, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:16.720 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | it just doesn't mean that all of the cases | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:18.240 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | in the class are impossible. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:21.360 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | It just means that some of the cases are impossible. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:22.560 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | So we can actually carve these islands of possibility | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:25.080 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | within these known impossible classes. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:28.240 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | And we've actually done that. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:30.920 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | So one of the famous results in mechanism design | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:31.960 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | is the Meyerson Satethweight theorem | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:35.160 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | by Roger Meyerson and Mark Satethweight from 1983. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:37.360 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | It's an impossibility of efficient trade | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:41.000 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | under imperfect information. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:43.480 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | We show that you can, in many settings, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:45.200 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | avoid that and get efficient trade anyway. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:48.560 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Depending on how they design the game, okay. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:51.480 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Depending how you design the game. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:54.160 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | And of course, it doesn't in any way | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:45:55.880 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | contradict the impossibility result. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:00.240 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | The impossibility result is still there, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:01.800 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | but it just finds spots within this impossible class | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:03.920 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | where in those spots, you don't have the impossibility. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:08.920 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Sorry if I'm going a bit philosophical, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:12.440 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | but what lessons do you draw towards, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:14.760 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | like I mentioned, politics or human interaction | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:17.480 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | and designing mechanisms for outside of just | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:20.160 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | these kinds of trading or auctioning | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:24.880 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | or purely formal games or human interaction, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:26.960 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | like a political system? | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:33.480 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | How, do you think it's applicable to, yeah, politics | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:34.920 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | or to business, to negotiations, these kinds of things, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:39.160 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | designing rules that have certain outcomes? | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:46.280 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Yeah, yeah, I do think so. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:49.040 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Have you seen that successfully done? | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:51.360 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | They haven't really, oh, you mean mechanism design | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:54.200 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | or automated mechanism design? | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:56.440 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Automated mechanism design. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:57.280 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | So mechanism design itself | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:46:59.000 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | has had fairly limited success so far. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:01.520 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | There are certain cases, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:06.440 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | but most of the real world situations | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:07.600 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | are actually not sound from a mechanism design perspective, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:10.200 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | even in those cases where they've been designed | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:14.680 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | by very knowledgeable mechanism design people, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:16.920 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | the people are typically just taking some insights | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:20.000 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | from the theory and applying those insights | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:22.760 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | into the real world, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:25.040 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | rather than applying the mechanisms directly. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:26.280 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | So one famous example of is the FCC spectrum auctions. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:29.280 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | So I've also had a small role in that | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:33.520 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | and very good economists have been working, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:36.880 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | excellent economists have been working on that | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:40.600 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | with no game theory, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:42.560 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | yet the rules that are designed in practice there, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:44.040 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | they're such that bidding truthfully | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:47.440 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | is not the best strategy. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:49.840 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | Usually mechanism design, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:51.800 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | we try to make things easy for the participants. | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:52.960 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | So telling the truth is the best strategy, | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:56.160 |
Tuomas Sandholm: Poker and Game Theory | Lex Fridman Podcast #12 | but even in those very high stakes auctions | https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0012-large.html#00:47:58.560 |
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