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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
I'm very confident about that future.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
By and large, I think that the debate has been very healthy and productive.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
And I actually, when I wrote that resignation email, I knew that Python was in a very good
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
spot and that the Python core developer community, the group of 50 or 100 people who sort of
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
write or review most of the code that goes into Python, those people get along very well
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
most of the time.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
A large number of different areas of expertise are represented, different levels of experience
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
in the Python core dev community, different levels of experience completely outside it
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
in software development in general, large systems, small systems, embedded systems.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
So I felt okay resigning because I knew that the community can really take care of itself.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
And out of a grab bag of future feature developments, let me ask if you can comment, maybe on all
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
very quickly, concurrent programming, parallel computing, async IO.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
These are things that people have expressed hope, complained about, whatever, have discussed
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
on Reddit.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Async IO, so the parallelization in general, packaging, I was totally clueless on this.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
I just used pip to install stuff, but apparently there's pipenv, poetry, there's these dependency
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
packaging systems that manage dependencies and so on.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
They're emerging and there's a lot of confusion about what's the right thing to use.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Then also functional programming, are we going to get more functional programming or not,
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
this kind of idea.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
And of course the GIL connected to the parallelization, I suppose, the global interpreter lock problem.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Can you just comment on whichever you want to comment on?
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Well, let's take the GIL and parallelization and async IO as one topic.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
I'm not that hopeful that Python will develop into a sort of high concurrency, high parallelism
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
language.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
That's sort of the way the language is designed, the way most users use the language, the way
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
the language is implemented, all make that a pretty unlikely future.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
So you think it might not even need to, really the way people use it, it might not be something
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
that should be of great concern.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
I think async IO is a special case because it sort of allows overlapping IO and only
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
IO and that is a sort of best practice of supporting very high throughput IO, many connections
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
per second.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
I'm not worried about that.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
I think async IO will evolve.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
There are a couple of competing packages.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
We have some very smart people who are sort of pushing us to make async IO better.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Parallel computing, I think that Python is not the language for that.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
There are ways to work around it, but you can't expect to write an algorithm in Python
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
and have a compiler automatically parallelize that.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
What you can do is use a package like NumPy and there are a bunch of other very powerful
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
packages that sort of use all the CPUs available because you tell the package, here's the data,
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
here's the abstract operation to apply over it, go at it, and then we're back in the C++
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world.
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Those packages are themselves implemented usually in C++.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
That's where TensorFlow and all these packages come in, where they parallelize across GPUs,
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
for example, they take care of that for you.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
In terms of packaging, can you comment on the future of packaging in Python?
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Packaging has always been my least favorite topic.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
It's a really tough problem because the OS and the platform want to own packaging, but
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
their packaging solution is not specific to a language.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
If you take Linux, there are two competing packaging solutions for Linux or for Unix
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
in general, but they all work across all languages.
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Several languages like Node, JavaScript, Ruby, and Python all have their own packaging solutions
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
that only work within the ecosystem of that language.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
What should you use?
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
That is a tough problem.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
My own approach is I use the system packaging system to install Python, and I use the Python
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packaging system then to install third party Python packages.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
That's what most people do.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Ten years ago, Python packaging was really a terrible situation.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Nowadays, pip is the future, there is a separate ecosystem for numerical and scientific Python
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based on Anaconda.
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Those two can live together.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
I don't think there is a need for more than that.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
That's packaging.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Well, at least for me, that's where I've been extremely happy.
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I didn't even know this was an issue until it was brought up.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
In the interest of time, let me sort of skip through a million other questions I have.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
So I watched the five and a half hour oral history that you've done with the Computer
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
History Museum, and the nice thing about it, it gave this, because of the linear progression
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
of the interview, it gave this feeling of a life, you know, a life well lived with interesting
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
things in it, sort of a pretty, I would say a good spend of this little existence we have
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
on Earth.
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So, outside of your family, looking back, what about this journey are you really proud
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
of?
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Are there moments that stand out, accomplishments, ideas?
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Is it the creation of Python itself that stands out as a thing that you look back and say,
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
damn, I did pretty good there?
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Well, I would say that Python is definitely the best thing I've ever done, and I wouldn't
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
sort of say just the creation of Python, but the way I sort of raised Python, like a baby.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
I didn't just conceive a child, but I raised a child, and now I'm setting the child free
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
in the world, and I've set up the child to sort of be able to take care of himself, and
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
I'm very proud of that.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
And as the announcer of Monty Python's Flying Circus used to say, and now for something
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
completely different, do you have a favorite Monty Python moment, or a moment in Hitchhiker's
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Guide, or any other literature show or movie that cracks you up when you think about it?
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
You can always play me the dead parrot sketch.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Oh, that's brilliant.
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That's my favorite as well.
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It's pushing up the daisies.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Okay, Greta, thank you so much for talking with me today.
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Guido van Rossum: Python | Lex Fridman Podcast #6
Lex, this has been a great conversation.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
The following is a conversation with Jeff Atwood.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
He is the cofounder of Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
websites that are visited by millions of people
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
every single day.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Much like with Wikipedia, it is difficult to understate
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
the impact on global knowledge and productivity
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
that these networks of sites have created.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Jeff is also the author of the famed blog Coding Horror
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