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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Is the Philippines our friends or enemies in this history?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:01:33.600
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Well, that's the interesting part, right? Is that, uh, the book focuses in particular
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:01:36.320
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
on Filipinos, uh, who fight with the Americans who fought, you know, sort of in the U S army
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:01:40.580
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
and Navy, um, over the course of the 20th century. And they are in a fundamentally ironic
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:01:45.840
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
position, right? They are, they are from the Philippines and they're fighting for the United
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:01:50.560
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
States, um, which is the colonial power, uh, occupying their country. Um, and I think that,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:01:54.640
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
that irony persists, right? Um, so if you look at sort of polling data where they ask
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
people all around the world, you know, you know, do you think positively or negatively
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
about the United States? Um, that the highest, uh, responses are from the Philippines, right?
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Filipinos view the United States more favorably than people from any other country in the
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:02:16.880
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
world, including America, right? That, that they're more think more favorably of Americans
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:02:21.000
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
than Americans do. Um, and so, you know, sort of unpacking that irony is, is part of what
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:02:26.320
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
I'm trying to get at in the book.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:02:30.680
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
What was the people power revolution and what lessons can we learn from it? You kind of
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:02:32.520
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
assign an important, um, a large value to it in terms of what we can learn for the,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:02:37.160
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
uh, the American project.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:02:45.520
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Yeah. So in 1986, um, the, the president of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos is overthrown
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:02:47.400
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
by a popular revolution known as people power, um, uh, in the wake of a contested and probably,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:02:53.480
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
uh, almost certainly rigged election, um, that, that sort of, uh, you know, kind of
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:02:59.800
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
confirms his, his, his rule. Um, when that is over, overturned through sort of mass movements
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:03:05.120
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
in the Philippines, it's also, uh, sort of confirmed in many ways by the, the reluctance
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
of the United States to intervene, to prop up a cold war ally. Ferdinand Marcos had supported
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
American policy throughout, um, his administration. Um, the Reagan administration, Ronald Reagan's
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
president at the time, basically chooses not to support him. That's a personally wrenching
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
decision for, for Reagan himself. Um, but it, it he's being shaped in many ways by the
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:03:33.520
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
emerging voices of neoconservative political, uh, foreign policy voices. Um, in particular,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:03:39.840
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
uh, Paul Wolfowitz and the state department and others who see sort of movements for democracy
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:03:46.080
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
and democratization that then kind of, uh, take fire in the late 20th century in Latin
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
America, um, in South Korea, in Eastern Europe, um, and, you know, all around the world until
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:03:57.000
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
it hits the wall in, in Tiananmen Square in June, 1989.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:04:03.440
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Well, what's that wall? Uh, what's, what's the wall, what's the, what, what do you mean
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
by it hits the wall? So there are, you know, the, there are global
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
movements for pot for democratization, um, for, for, uh, opening up, um, you know, throughout
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
the world, um, starting in the 1980s. Um, and, you know, obviously they continue, um,
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
in Eastern Europe with the fall of the Berlin wall in 1989. Um, you know, I say it hits
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:04:27.320
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
the wall in, in, in China, um, in, with the protests in Tiananmen Square and that are,
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
that are blocked, um, and that are crushed. And I think represent, uh, a real sort of
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:04:38.440
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
turning point, um, in the history of, of democratic institutions, uh, on a global scale in the
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
late 20th century.
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
So there's some places where the fight for freedom will work and some places not. And
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:04:50.760
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
that's the kind of lesson from the 20th to take forward to the 21st century.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:04:57.120
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Uh, no, I think the lesson is, is maybe one that, that, you know, we talked about earlier
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:05:04.840
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
that there's this dynamic dance between, um, between leaders, whether, uh, totalitarian
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:05:09.960
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
leaders or leaders of democratic movements and the people that they're leading. Um, and
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:05:15.520
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
some, you know, sometimes it works and sometimes, sometimes it doesn't.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:05:21.000
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Let me ask a big, ridiculous question because we talked about, uh, sort of presidential
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:05:24.200
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
elections. Um, now this is objectively, definitively, you have to answer one person. Who is the
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
greatest president in American history?
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Oh, that's easy.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:05:36.200
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Yeah.
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Abraham Lincoln.
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Is that easy? Not George Washington?
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Um, you know, Washington had his, uh, had the statesman qualities. He understood his
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
power as, as, uh, as the first president.
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Also relinquished power.
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
He was willing to relinquish power. Um, he, you know, uh, but, but Lincoln has the combination
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:05:54.760
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
of personal leadership, um, a fundamental moral character and, um, and just the ability
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
to kind of, uh, to fight the, the fight of politics, to play the game of it, um, to get
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:06:10.840
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
where he's going, to play the short game and the long game, um, to kind of, you know, make
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:06:15.960
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
to, uh, you know, to work with his enemies, to, to block them when he had to. Um, and
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
you know, I mean, he, uh, gets the United States through the civil war. So you gotta
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
give him some credit for that.
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
And he's pretty good at making speeches.
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Uh, it, you know, obviously it helps that he's, uh, uh, a remarkable speaker, um, and
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:06:34.160
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
able to convey those kinds of visions. Um, but, um, you know, but he, but he is first
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:06:39.680
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
and foremost a politician, um, and probably the best one we have.
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Both at getting elected and at ruling.
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
In some ways better, better at the doing than at the getting elected, right? Um, you know,
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
that he, uh, you know, the election of 1860 is a, it's just a hot mess. Um, you know,
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
that that could have worked out, um, many different ways. And even the election of 1864,
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
um, you know, when we have a presidential election in the middle of a civil war, um,
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
it was not a foregone conclusion that Lincoln would be reelected. Um, so, you know, both
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
times he's sort of, um, you know, he's not a, a master campaigner, um, by, by any means,
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
but he, he was a master politician as a, as a governor.
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Do we have leaders like that today? Is, is that, so one perspective is like, well, leaders
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
aren't, ain't what they used to be. And then another perspective is, well, we always romanticize
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
stuff that happens in the past. We forget the flaws and remember the great moments.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:07:40.880
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Yeah. Uh, both of those things are true, right? Um, on the one hand, um, you know, we, we
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:07:46.120
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
don't, uh, we are not surrounded by people of, of Lincoln's caliber, um, right now.
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
That feels like the case.
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Um, and I think that, I think we can say that with some certainty, but, um, you know, I,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:07:59.560
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
I always like to point to president Harry Truman who left office with, you know, some
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:08:05.960
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
truly abysmal, uh, uh, presidential ratings, um, was dismissed as a, throughout his presidency
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
as a, you know, as a, as unqualified as not knowing what he was doing, et cetera. And
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
it's then, you know, turns out, um, uh, with hindsight, we know that he was better at the
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
job than anyone understood better at getting elected, right? You remember that sign, do
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
he defeats Truman, right? He showed them, right? Uh, and better, better at holding power
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
and better at sort of, um, you know, kind of building the kind of institutions that
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:08:39.400
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
long after he was gone, um, demonstrated that he, he, he won the long game.
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
And some of that is the victors do write the story. And, um, I asked myself very much,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:08:51.200
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
how will history remember Volodymyr Zelensky? It's not obvious. And how will history remember
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
Putin? That too is not obvious. Um, because it depends on how the role, the geopolitics,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:09:05.640
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
the, how the nations, how the history of these nations unravel, unfold rather. So it's very
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:09:17.400
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
interesting to think about. And the same is true for Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Obama, uh,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:09:24.560
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
George Bush, uh, Bill Clinton, and so on. I think it's a probably unanswerable question
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
of which of the presidents will be remembered as a great president from this time. You can
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:09:41.440
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
make all kinds of cases for all kinds of people and they do, but it's unclear. It's fascinating
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0320-large.html#02:09:46.480
Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
to think about when the robots finally take over, uh, what, which of the humans they will
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
appreciate the most. Uh, let me ask for advice. Do you have, um, advice for, for young folks
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Christopher Capozzola: World War I, Ideology, Propaganda, and Politics | Lex Fridman Podcast #320
as they, uh, uh, cause you mentioned the, the, the folks you're teaching, they don't
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