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Right. | right. | ||
...and moved on and found that he was largely correct in the things that he wrote. So he's central to biologist. But Western culture has not metabolized this man, and it's because he changed our view--or he's asking us to change our view about who we are and where we came from. | ...and moved on and found that he was largely correct in the things that he wrote so he's central to biologist but western culture has not metabolized this man and it's. because, he changed, our view--or he's asking us to change our. view about who; we, are and, where we came, | ...and moved. on and found that he was largely correct in. the. things that he. wrote So he's central to biologist But Western culture has not metabolized this. man and, it's because he changed our view--or he's asking us to. change, our, view about who we are and where we came | ...and moved on and found that he was largely correct in the things that he wrote. so he's central to biologist. but western culture has not metabolized this man, and it's because he changed our view--or he's asking us to change our view about who we are and where we came from. |
1 (800) 989-8255 is our number. Let's go to Brandon in Red Bluff, California. Hi, Brandon. | 1 (800) 989-8255 is our; number let's go to, brandon in red bluff california hi | 1 (800) 989-8255 is our number Let's go to Brandon. in Red Bluff California Hi | 1 (800) 989-8255 is our number. let's go to brandon in red bluff, california. hi, brandon. |
Hi, Ira. Thanks for taking my call. I am a geology major so I know that in the sciences that you have to take chemistry and physics and biology is definitely part of it, and part of the key fundamental theories of science, not theories but actual facts of science, are evolution. And I'm curious, ... | hi, ira, thanks for taking my call i am a geology major so i know that in the sciences that you have to take chemistry and physics and biology is definitely part of it and part of the key fundamental theories of science. not theories but actual facts of science are evolution and. i'm curious, and... | Hi Ira Thanks for taking my call I am a geology major so I, know that in the sciences that you have to take. chemistry and physics and biology is definitely part of it and. part of the key fundamental theories of, science not theories but actual facts of science are evolution And; I'm curious and... | hi, ira. thanks for taking my call. i am a geology major so i know that in the sciences that you have to take chemistry and physics and biology is definitely part of it, and part of the key fundamental theories of science, not theories but actual facts of science, are evolution. and i'm curious, ... |
Well, nobody disputes in science that evolution in fact is a fact if you define evolution, which is the general way of doing it, that all organisms on the face of the Earth are descended from a single common ancestor in remote geological time. And so everybody agrees that life has evolved; it is a ... | well, nobody disputes in science that evolution in fact is a fact if you define evolution which is the general way of doing it. that all organisms on the face of the earth are descended from a single common; ancestor in remote geological time and so everybody agrees that life. has evolved it is a f... | Well nobody disputes in science that. evolution in fact is a fact if you define. evolution which is the general way of doing, it that all organisms on the face of the Earth are descended from a single common ancestor in remote, geological time And so everybody agrees that life has evolved it is a f... | well, nobody disputes in science that evolution in fact is a fact if you define evolution, which is the general way of doing it, that all organisms on the face of the earth are descended from a single common ancestor in remote geological time. and so everybody agrees that life has evolved; it is a ... |
Ed Larson, add anything to that? | ed larson add anything to. | Ed Larson add anything. to | ed larson, add anything to that? |
I agree with Niles in the sense that when scientists use the term `theory' they mean a tested naturalistic explanation that's gone through a whole body of work and when we talk about a theory in this case, what scientists are talking about is not the theory of evolution really, it's the theory of ev... | i agree with niles. in the sense that when scientists use the term. `theory' they mean a tested naturalistic explanation that's gone through a whole body of work and when we. talk about a theory in this case what scientists are talking about is. not the theory of evolution really it's the theory of ... | I agree with Niles in the sense that when, scientists use the term `theory' they mean a tested naturalistic explanation that's gone through a whole body of work and when we talk about a theory in this case what scientists are talking about is not the theory of evolution, really it's the theory of ev... | i agree with niles in the sense that when scientists use the term `theory' they mean a tested naturalistic explanation that's gone through a whole body of work and when we talk about a theory in this case, what scientists are talking about is not the theory of evolution really, it's the theory of ev... |
Yeah. | yeah. | ||
And that part's a theory. What would be a fact that most scientists would maintain and Ernst Meyer was a good expositor of this idea, that common descent--that's what people talk about as a fact. | and that part's; a theory what would be a fact that most scientists would maintain; and ernst meyer was a good expositor of this idea that common, descent--that's, what people. talk about as a | And that part's a theory What would be a, fact that, most scientists would maintain and, Ernst Meyer was a good expositor of this idea that common descent--that's what people talk about as a | and that part's a theory. what would be a fact that most scientists would maintain and ernst meyer was a good expositor of this idea, that common descent--that's what people talk about as a fact. |
You know what I find interesting is that in everyday life usage, everybody calls it a theory of evolu--when we talk about the bird flu, everybody will say, `Well, if and when it evolves into something that can affect human beings... | you know what i; find interesting is that in everyday life usage, everybody, calls it a theory of evolu--when we talk about the bird flu everybody will say `well if and when it evolves. into something that can affect human | You know what I find interesting is that in. everyday life, usage everybody calls it a theory of evolu--when we talk about the bird flu everybody will say `Well if and, when it evolves into something that can affect human | you know what i find interesting is that in everyday life usage, everybody calls it a theory of evolu--when we talk about the bird flu, everybody will say, `well, if and when it evolves into something that can affect human beings... |
Exactly. Exactly. | exactly | Exactly | exactly. exactly. |
But if you--you know, even people who probably don't even fully understand what they're saying when they say, `When it evolves,' will say that it's going to evolve. | but if you--you know, even people who, probably don't even fully understand what they're saying when they say `when it evolves' will say that, it's going to | But if you--you know even. people who probably don't even fully understand what they're saying when they say `When it evolves' will say that it's going to | but if you--you know, even people who probably don't even fully understand what they're saying when they say, `when it evolves,' will say that it's going to evolve. |
Had we no evolutionary concept, we wouldn't be worried about bird flu right now. We wouldn't see the possibility. We would not know it existed. | had we no evolutionary concept we wouldn't be. worried about bird flu right now we wouldn't see the possibility we would not know it | Had we no evolutionary concept we wouldn't be worried about bird flu, right now We wouldn't see the possibility. We would not know it. | had we no evolutionary concept, we wouldn't be worried about bird flu right now. we wouldn't see the possibility. we would not know it existed. |
You know, and that's--but, you know, I think ID people actually make a difference between on the macro level and the micro level... | you know and that's--but you know i think id people actually make. a difference. between, on the macro level and the micro | You know and. that's--but you know I think. ID people actually make a difference between on the macro level and the, micro | you know, and that's--but, you know, i think id people actually make a difference between on the macro level and the micro level... |
Oh, yeah. | oh | Oh | oh, yeah. |
...of intelligent design. | ...of intelligent | ...of intelligent | ...of intelligent design. |
Right, so they'll concede as the possibility of mutations and a mutation in bird flu--maybe it becomes humanly transmissible, but there's no way of stopping it. It's just like circles rippling around a rock that you throw into a pond. There's no break. It just goes on and on; it links up all of l... | right so they'll concede as the possibility of mutations and a mutation in bird flu--maybe it becomes humanly transmissible but there's no; way of stopping it it's just like, circles rippling. around a rock that you throw into a pond there's no break. it; just goes. on and on. it links up all of,... | Right so they'll concede as the possibility of, mutations and, a mutation in bird; flu--maybe, it, becomes humanly transmissible but there's no way of stopping it It's just like. circles rippling around a rock that you throw into a pond There's no break It just goes on and. on it, links up all of... | right, so they'll concede as the possibility of mutations and a mutation in bird flu--maybe it becomes humanly transmissible, but there's no way of stopping it. it's just like circles rippling around a rock that you throw into a pond. there's no break. it just goes on and on; it links up all of l... |
1 (800)... | 1 (800)... | ||
It can get very... | it, can get | It can get | it can get very... |
Sure. Go ahead. | sure go | Sure Go; | sure. go ahead. |
It can get very confusing for people listening and people hearing it all because at one time it's whether it's a theory of evolution, another time it's a theory of natural selection. One time they're raising questions about mechanism and then they're bleeding those questions of mechanisms that Nile... | it can get. very confusing for people listening and people hearing it all because at one time it's whether it's a theory of evolution another time; it's a theory of natural selection one time they're raising questions about mechanism and then they're bleeding those questions of mechanisms that nile... | It can get very confusing for people listening and people hearing it all, because, at one, time it's whether it's a theory of evolution another time it's a. theory of natural selection One time they're raising questions about, mechanism and then they're bleeding those questions. of mechanisms that ... | it can get very confusing for people listening and people hearing it all because at one time it's whether it's a theory of evolution, another time it's a theory of natural selection. one time they're raising questions about mechanism and then they're bleeding those questions of mechanisms that nile... |
Absolutely. | absolutely. | ||
Let's go to Kathleen in Cleveland. Hi. Welcome to SCIENCE FRIDAY, Kathleen. | let's go, to kathleen in cleveland hi welcome to science friday | Let's go; to Kathleen in, Cleveland Hi Welcome to. SCIENCE FRIDAY | let's go to kathleen in cleveland. hi. welcome to science friday, kathleen. |
Thank you for taking my call. My question is regarding education and how it's such a large number of adults don't believe or aren't informed about the theory of evolution and what that involves--how that's possible after 40 years of having it in the curriculum. | thank you. for taking my call; my question is regarding education and, how it's such a large, number of adults don't believe or aren't informed about the, theory of evolution and what that involves--how, that's possible after 40 years of having it in the | Thank you for taking. my call, My question is regarding education and how it's such a large number of adults don't believe or aren't informed about the theory of evolution and what that, involves--how that's possible after 40 years. of having it in the | thank you for taking my call. my question is regarding education and how it's such a large number of adults don't believe or aren't informed about the theory of evolution and what that involves--how that's possible after 40 years of having it in the curriculum. |
Mmm. | mmm. | ||
Well, I--may take is that... | well i--may take is | Well I--may take is | well, i--may take is that... |
...people will believe what they want to believe is really what it is. My only concern is not what individuals decide to believe, but it's the nefarious act of going into classrooms and teaching kids as if it were science things that are not science, things that are basically religion masquerading ... | ...people will believe what they want to believe is really what it is my only concern is not what individuals, decide to believe but it's the nefarious act, of. going into classrooms and teaching kids as. if it were science, things that are not science things. that are basically religion masqueradi... | ...people will believe what they want to believe is really. what it is My; only concern is not what individuals decide to believe but it's the nefarious act of going into classrooms and teaching, kids as if it were science things that are not science things that are basically religion masquerading.... | ...people will believe what they want to believe is really what it is. my only concern is not what individuals decide to believe, but it's the nefarious act of going into classrooms and teaching kids as if it were science things that are not science, things that are basically religion masquerading ... |
And I'm not so sure if people have been getting this for years because from my work as an historian in this area, I think there are many places in America that--many school districts, many schools that have never taught evolution. They just--it's not that they're necessarily teaching creationism... | and i'm not so sure if people, have been getting this for years because from my work as an historian in. this area i think, there are, many places in america that--many school districts many schools that. have never taught evolution they just--it's not that they're necessarily teaching. | And I'm not so, sure if people have been getting this for years because, from, my work as, an historian in this area I think there are many places in America that--many school districts many schools that have never taught evolution They just--it's not that they're necessarily teaching | and i'm not so sure if people have been getting this for years because from my work as an historian in this area, i think there are many places in america that--many school districts, many schools that have never taught evolution. they just--it's not that they're necessarily teaching creationism... |
Yeah. | yeah. | ||
...they're just avoiding the subject because it's... | ...they're just avoiding the subject because | ...they're just avoiding the subject because, | ...they're just avoiding the subject because it's... |
Yeah. Yeah. | yeah | Yeah | yeah. yeah. |
...controversial locally. | ...controversial | ...controversial, | ...controversial locally. |
That's right. | that's | That's | that's right. |
We've heard that many times that the teacher will teach something that if you--you know, as they came to it, but never used the word `evolution.' Something changes in this--they'll never--actually afraid to put the word `evolution' in there. Thanks for calling, Kathleen. | we've heard that many times that the teacher will teach something that. if you--you, know as, they came to it but never used the word `evolution' something changes in this--they'll never--actually afraid to put the word `evolution' in there thanks for calling; | We've heard that many times that the, teacher will teach something that if you--you. know as they came, to it but never used the word `evolution' Something changes. in this--they'll never--actually afraid. to put the word `evolution' in there Thanks, for calling | we've heard that many times that the teacher will teach something that if you--you know, as they came to it, but never used the word `evolution.' something changes in this--they'll never--actually afraid to put the word `evolution' in there. thanks for calling, kathleen. |
Thank you. | thank. | Thank | thank you. |
1 (800) 989-8255. And interesting to note that today in the wires there was a story that the Vatican's astronomer--the official astronomer of the Vatican said that intelligence design should not be taught in--with biology class. | 1 (800) 989-8255. and interesting to note that today in the wires. there was a story that the. vatican's. astronomer--the official astronomer of, the vatican said that intelligence design should not be taught in--with biology | 1 (800) 989-8255. And interesting to note that today in the wires there, was a story, that the Vatican's astronomer--the official astronomer of the, Vatican, said, that intelligence design should; not be taught; in--with, biology | 1 (800) 989-8255. and interesting to note that today in the wires there was a story that the vatican's astronomer--the official astronomer of the vatican said that intelligence design should not be taught in--with biology class. |
Yeah. Well, you know, intelligent design makes no predictions about what you would expect to see were it true--if it were true, and evolution does. And we make predictions all the time and we test them based on the notion of evolution. It's not science. That's why it shouldn't be in the schools.... | yeah well you know intelligent design makes, no predictions about what you would expect; to see were it; true--if it. were true and evolution does and we make predictions all the time and we test them based on the notion of evolution it's not science that's why it shouldn't be in the schools i'... | Yeah Well you know, intelligent design makes no predictions about what you would, expect to see were it true--if it were true, and evolution does And, we make predictions all the time and we test them based on, the notion of evolution It's. not science That's why it shouldn't, be in the schools ... | yeah. well, you know, intelligent design makes no predictions about what you would expect to see were it true--if it were true, and evolution does. and we make predictions all the time and we test them based on the notion of evolution. it's not science. that's why it shouldn't be in the schools.... |
1 (800) 989-8255. Let's talk about--we have a few more minutes to talk about Darwin himself. He suffered from a stomach ailment. | 1 (800) 989-8255. let's talk about--we have a. few more minutes to. talk about darwin himself he suffered from a stomach | 1 (800) 989-8255. Let's talk about--we have a few more. minutes to; talk about Darwin himself He suffered from a stomach | 1 (800) 989-8255. let's talk about--we have a few more minutes to talk about darwin himself. he suffered from a stomach ailment. |
He did. | he | He | he did. |
Right? | right? | ||
Yeah, a gastrointestinal--complete from start to finish, gastrointestinal ailment every day of his life. His son Francis said he never knew his father to have a normal day of health like most of us enjoy. | yeah a gastrointestinal--complete from start to finish gastrointestinal ailment every day of. his life his son francis said he never knew his father to have a normal day of health like most. of us | Yeah a gastrointestinal--complete from start to finish gastrointestinal ailment every day of his life His son Francis said he never knew his father to have a, normal day of health like most of us | yeah, a gastrointestinal--complete from start to finish, gastrointestinal ailment every day of his life. his son francis said he never knew his father to have a normal day of health like most of us enjoy. |
Today what would we call it? Was it some--it was never diagnosed as anything, right? | today what would we call it? was it some--it was never diagnosed as anything | Today what would we call it? Was it, some--it, was never diagnosed as anything. | today what would we call it? was it some--it was never diagnosed as anything, right? |
No. | no. | ||
Could it have been stress or... | could it have been stress | Could it have been; stress | could it have been stress or... |
Stress seems to be the favored example amongst historians--most historians now, and even family members who have looked into this. But it's a possibility. The old idea was he was bit by a vinchuca bug and had Chagas' disease while he was on the Beagle. Nobody will really know, but his symptoms se... | stress seems to be the favored example amongst historians--most, historians now and even family members who, have looked into this but it's a possibility the old idea was he was bit by a. vinchuca, bug and had. chagas' disease while he was on the beagle nobody. will really know but his symptoms s... | Stress seems, to be the favored example amongst historians--most historians now and even family members who have, looked into this But it's a possibility The old idea was he was bit by a vinchuca bug and had Chagas' disease while he was. on the Beagle Nobody will really know but his symptoms. see... | stress seems to be the favored example amongst historians--most historians now, and even family members who have looked into this. but it's a possibility. the old idea was he was bit by a vinchuca bug and had chagas' disease while he was on the beagle. nobody will really know, but his symptoms se... |
Is that right? | is that; | Is that | is that right? |
Yeah. | yeah. | ||
Worrying about the reaction to the... | worrying about the reaction to | Worrying, about. the reaction to | worrying about the reaction to the... |
Oh, yeah. Yeah. | oh yeah | Oh yeah | oh, yeah. yeah. |
Well, he grew progressively weaker throughout his life. He was healthy when he went on the voyage of the Beagle. | well, he grew progressively weaker throughout, his life he was. healthy when he went on the voyage; of the | Well he grew progressively weaker throughout his life He was healthy when he went on the voyage of the | well, he grew progressively weaker throughout his life. he was healthy when he went on the voyage of the beagle. |
He was. | he. | He | he was. |
Great expedition. Then it deteriorated, and also he liked to--though he was very active in promoting his work through letter writing and writing books, he didn't like to go out front. T.H. Huxley became his bulldog and being ill always served as a nice excuse for not having to go out and appear in... | great expedition then it deteriorated and also he liked to--though he, was very; active in promoting his work through letter writing and writing books he didn't like to go out front t.h huxley became his bulldog and being ill always served as a nice excuse for not; having to go out and appear in. | Great. expedition Then it. deteriorated and also he liked to--though he. was very active in promoting his, work through letter writing and writing books he didn't like, to, go. out front T.H Huxley became his bulldog and. being ill. always served as a nice excuse for not having to go out and appea... | great expedition. then it deteriorated, and also he liked to--though he was very active in promoting his work through letter writing and writing books, he didn't like to go out front. t.h. huxley became his bulldog and being ill always served as a nice excuse for not having to go out and appear in... |
If... | if... | ||
Yeah. | yeah. | ||
I'm sorry. | i'm | I'm | i'm sorry. |
He says in his autobiography, `I figure I've lost maybe two and a half, three years of productive work through my illness, but on the other hand, it's kept me from a lot of dinner parties.' | he says in his autobiography, `i figure i've lost maybe two and a, half three years of productive work through my illness but, on the other. hand it's kept me from a lot of dinner | He says, in his autobiography `I figure I've lost maybe, two and a half three years of productive work through my illness but on the other hand it's kept me from a lot of dinner | he says in his autobiography, `i figure i've lost maybe two and a half, three years of productive work through my illness, but on the other hand, it's kept me from a lot of dinner parties.' |
Cholesterol stayed low. If Darwin had--uses his voyage on the Beagle and to the Galopagos to look at the finches and the other things, what did Wallace do? Did Wallace never... | cholesterol stayed low if darwin had--uses his voyage on the beagle and to the; galopagos to. look, at the finches and the; other things what. did wallace, do? did wallace | Cholesterol stayed. low If Darwin had--uses his voyage on the Beagle and to the Galopagos to. look at the finches and the other things what, did Wallace, do? Did Wallace | cholesterol stayed low. if darwin had--uses his voyage on the beagle and to the galopagos to look at the finches and the other things, what did wallace do? did wallace never... |
Wallace set out in I think it was 1848 with Bates--correct me if I'm wrong--and--to collect. | wallace set out in i think it was 1848 with bates--correct me if i'm wrong--and--to | Wallace set out in I think it was 1848 with Bates--correct me if I'm wrong--and--to | wallace set out in i think it was 1848 with bates--correct me if i'm wrong--and--to collect. |
Right. | right. | ||
He was not a wealthy person like Darwin was, so he was making a living as a collector. But the thinking is that he was already convinced of evolution as was Bates; didn't know about natural selection. | he was, not a wealthy person like darwin was so he was making a living as a collector but the thinking is that he was already convinced of evolution as was bates didn't. know about natural | He; was not a wealthy person like, Darwin was so he was making a living. as a collector But the thinking is that he; was already convinced of evolution as was Bates, didn't know about natural | he was not a wealthy person like darwin was, so he was making a living as a collector. but the thinking is that he was already convinced of evolution as was bates; didn't know about natural selection. |
He went out to test one of the great ideas--he thought he could prove evolution if he could show that closely related species lived right next to, right on the fringe, like adaptive radiation, right on the fringe of old populations. | he went out, to test one of the great ideas--he thought he could prove. evolution if, he, could show that closely related. species. lived right next to right on the fringe like adaptive radiation right on the fringe of old | He went. out to test one of the great ideas--he thought he could prove evolution; if he could show that closely related species lived right next to right on the fringe. like adaptive radiation right on, the, fringe of old | he went out to test one of the great ideas--he thought he could prove evolution if he could show that closely related species lived right next to, right on the fringe, like adaptive radiation, right on the fringe of old populations. |
Yeah, OK. | yeah | Yeah | yeah, ok. |
And so he went out to the most remote places of South America and Indonesia to look for new species right on the fringes of orders(ph), and then he continued to do that throughout his very long life. He lived into the 1900s and he continued writing and he became very significant as a biogeographer. | and so he, went out to the most remote places. of south america and indonesia to look for new species right. on the. fringes of orders(ph), and then he continued to do that throughout his very long life he lived into the 1900s. and he continued writing and; he became very significant as a | And so. he went out to the most remote places of, South America and Indonesia to look for new species right on the fringes of orders(ph), and then, he continued to do that throughout. his very long life He lived into the 1900s and. he continued writing and he. became. very significant. as a | and so he went out to the most remote places of south america and indonesia to look for new species right on the fringes of orders(ph), and then he continued to do that throughout his very long life. he lived into the 1900s and he continued writing and he became very significant as a biogeographer. |
Well, you say he didn't believe in natural selection. | well you. say he didn't. believe in natural | Well you say he didn't believe in natural | well, you say he didn't believe in natural selection. |
Well, no, he didn't know about it. | well no, he didn't know about | Well no he, didn't know about | well, no, he didn't know about it. |
Well, and then what he did is he did not know how evolution worked and he knew that was the problem. Everyone knew the problem with evolution was no mechanism. And then when he had that brilliant moment of insight in Indonesia just as Darwin had that moment of insight--similar insight--both thinki... | well and then, what he did is he did, not know how evolution worked and he knew that, was the problem everyone knew the problem with, evolution was no, mechanism and then when he had that brilliant moment of insight in indonesia just. as darwin had, that moment of insight--similar insight--both th... | Well and then what he, did, is he, did not know how; evolution worked, and he knew that was the problem Everyone knew the, problem with evolution. was no mechanism And then when he had that brilliant moment. of insight in Indonesia; just as Darwin had that moment, of insight--similar insight--both... | well, and then what he did is he did not know how evolution worked and he knew that was the problem. everyone knew the problem with evolution was no mechanism. and then when he had that brilliant moment of insight in indonesia just as darwin had that moment of insight--similar insight--both thinki... |
I agree with that. There's two morales there. If you have a good idea publish it, and secondly, if there's any value to the idea, it means somebody else will come up with it, absolutely. | i agree with that there's two morales; there if you have a good idea publish it and secondly if there's any value to the idea, it means somebody else will, come up with it | I agree with that There's two, morales there If you have a good idea publish it and secondly if, there's any value to the idea it, means somebody, else will come up with it | i agree with that. there's two morales there. if you have a good idea publish it, and secondly, if there's any value to the idea, it means somebody else will come up with it, absolutely. |
Was there somebody who carried the banner after Darwin was gone as a protege or somebody who--or was that it? | was; there somebody who carried the banner after darwin was gone as a protege or somebody who--or was that | Was there somebody who carried the banner after Darwin was gone as a protege or somebody who--or was that | was there somebody who carried the banner after darwin was gone as a protege or somebody who--or was that it? |
Who would you say would be the great protege? I mean, Huxley barreled on. I think all the young people were convinced of evolution. Darwin was disappointed a lot of his mentors never bought it, and you know, they went to their graves resisting it. | who would you say, would be the great protege? i mean huxley barreled on i think all the young people were. convinced of evolution darwin was disappointed a lot of his mentors never bought it and you know they went to their graves resisting | Who would you say would be the great protege? I mean Huxley barreled on I think all the young people were convinced of evolution Darwin was disappointed, a lot of his mentors never bought it, and you; know they went to their graves resisting | who would you say would be the great protege? i mean, huxley barreled on. i think all the young people were convinced of evolution. darwin was disappointed a lot of his mentors never bought it, and you know, they went to their graves resisting it. |
Wallace would certainly be one of... | wallace; would certainly be one; | Wallace would certainly be. one | wallace would certainly be one of... |
Wallace would be one. | wallace would be | Wallace would be | wallace would be one. |
...he lived on for another 20 years and he was very visible as a proponent, but then a whole new generation picks up. | ...he lived on for another 20 years and he was very visible as a, proponent but then. a whole new generation picks | ...he lived on for another 20 years and, he. was very visible as a proponent but then a whole new generation picks, | ...he lived on for another 20 years and he was very visible as a proponent, but then a whole new generation picks up. |
Right. | right. | ||
In America, David Starr Jordan would be crucial. He was the founding president of Stanford. There right at the American Museum of Natural History, Harry Fairfield Osborn had an important role. In America, people like Cope, Hayek--tremendous paleontologist--Hekel in Germany--these people picked up... | in america david starr jordan; would be crucial he, was the founding president. of stanford there right at the american museum of natural history harry; fairfield osborn had an important, role in america people like cope hayek--tremendous paleontologist--hekel in germany--these people picked up. ... | In America David Starr Jordan would, be crucial He was the founding president of Stanford There right at the American Museum of Natural History Harry Fairfield Osborn had an important. role. In America people like Cope Hayek--tremendous paleontologist--Hekel in Germany--these people picked up the... | in america, david starr jordan would be crucial. he was the founding president of stanford. there right at the american museum of natural history, harry fairfield osborn had an important role. in america, people like cope, hayek--tremendous paleontologist--hekel in germany--these people picked up... |
Would somebody else have come up with it if they hadn't? Was it... | would somebody, else have come up with it if they hadn't? was | Would somebody else have come up. with, it if they hadn't? Was | would somebody else have come up with it if they hadn't? was it... |
Oh, absolutely. I think that's the morale of the Wallace story. | oh absolutely i think that's the morale of the wallace | Oh absolutely I think that's the morale of the Wallace | oh, absolutely. i think that's the morale of the wallace story. |
Yeah. | yeah. | ||
Wallace already did, so I totally agree with Niles on that point, yes. | wallace already did so i totally agree. with niles on that point | Wallace already did so I totally, agree with Niles on that, point | wallace already did, so i totally agree with niles on that point, yes. |
And then we get through--they both die and we have the Scopes trial a few years later, right? | and then. we get through--they both die and we have the scopes trial a few years later | And then we get through--they both die and we have the Scopes trial a few years later | and then we get through--they both die and we have the scopes trial a few years later, right? |
That was in the '20s. | that. was in, the | That was in the | that was in the '20s. |
The '20s, yeah. Eighty years ago, and it's still doing the trial over and over again. | the '20s yeah eighty years ago and it's, still doing the trial over and over | The '20s yeah Eighty years ago and it's still doing the. trial over and over | the '20s, yeah. eighty years ago, and it's still doing the trial over and over again. |
Oh, over and over again. | oh over and over | Oh over, and, over | oh, over and over again. |
Well, we're going to--let me just remind everybody that I'm Ira Flatow. This is TALK OF THE NATION/SCIENCE FRIDAY from NPR News. | well we're going to--let me, just remind everybody that i'm ira flatow this is talk of the nation/science friday from npr | Well we're going, to--let me. just remind everybody that I'm Ira Flatow This is TALK OF THE NATION/SCIENCE FRIDAY from NPR | well, we're going to--let me just remind everybody that i'm ira flatow. this is talk of the nation/science friday from npr news. |
Talking about Darwin and evolution this hour. Let's go to the phones, see if we can get a caller or two. Larry in Kansas City. Hi, Larry. | talking about darwin and evolution this hour let's go to the phones see if we can get a caller or two larry in kansas city hi | Talking about Darwin and evolution. this hour Let's go to the, phones, see if we, can get a caller or two. Larry in Kansas City Hi. | talking about darwin and evolution this hour. let's go to the phones, see if we can get a caller or two. larry in kansas city. hi, larry. |
Hello. How are you? | hello how are, | Hello How are | hello. how are you? |
Hi. | hi. | ||
Say listen, real quick. Years ago I saw a movie called "Andromeda Strain." And it was basically a sci-fi built on a mutation of something that came from outer space. My question is what is the (technical difficulty)... | say listen real quick years ago i saw a movie called "andromeda strain" and it, was basically a sci-fi built on a. mutation of something that came from outer space my question is what, is the (technical, | Say listen real quick Years ago I saw a movie, called "Andromeda Strain" And it was. basically a sci-fi built, on a mutation of, something, that came from outer space My question is what is the (technical. | say listen, real quick. years ago i saw a movie called "andromeda strain." and it was basically a sci-fi built on a mutation of something that came from outer space. my question is what is the (technical difficulty)... |
Whoop. He's on the phone. Go ahead. I can tell here. He said what's the difference between evolution and mutation. Niles? | whoop he's on the phone go ahead i can tell here he, said what's the; difference between evolution and mutation | Whoop He's on the. phone Go ahead I can tell here He, said what's the, difference. between evolution and mutation | whoop. he's on the phone. go ahead. i can tell here. he said what's the difference between evolution and mutation. niles? |
Oh, well, mutation is the ultimate source of variation, but to get that variation incorporated into a population you need natural selection, basically, to... | oh well mutation is the ultimate source of variation but to get that variation incorporated into a population you need natural selection basically | Oh well mutation is the ultimate source of variation but, to get that variation incorporated into a population you need natural; selection basically, | oh, well, mutation is the ultimate source of variation, but to get that variation incorporated into a population you need natural selection, basically, to... |
And, briefly, natural selection... | and briefly natural, | And briefly natural | and, briefly, natural selection... |
And natural selection is Darwin's--just three points. There's variation out there, it's heritable. Not all organisms that are born can possibly survive and reproduce; there's just too many organisms born each generation. And that was the big `a-ha' because Darwin thought that just enough were born... | and natural selection is darwin's--just three points there's variation, out; there it's heritable not all organisms, that are born can possibly survive and reproduce there's just too many. organisms born each generation and that was the big `a-ha' because darwin thought that just enough, were born... | And natural selection is Darwin's--just three points There's; variation out there it's heritable Not all. organisms that are born. can possibly, survive and reproduce there's just too many organisms born each generation, And that was the big `a-ha' because Darwin thought that just enough were born... | and natural selection is darwin's--just three points. there's variation out there, it's heritable. not all organisms that are born can possibly survive and reproduce; there's just too many organisms born each generation. and that was the big `a-ha' because darwin thought that just enough were born... |
Right. So figuring out the mechanism then--that was one of the keys that separated... | right so figuring out, the mechanism then--that was one of the keys that | Right So, figuring out the mechanism then--that was one of the keys that | right. so figuring out the mechanism then--that was one of the keys that separated... |
That was the key. | that was. the. | That was, the. | that was the key. |
...all the different evolutionists. | ...all the different | ...all the different | ...all the different evolutionists. |
Absolutely the key, because Darwin knew that everybody was thinking about--Ed was absolutely right. I mean, in medical school everybody was talking about evolution by the mid-19th century certainly, but nobody had a mechanism for it. Darwin did. He had it for 20 years, didn't really tell anybody ... | absolutely, the key because darwin knew that everybody was thinking; about--ed was, absolutely right i mean in medical school. everybody was talking about evolution by the mid-19th century certainly, but nobody had a mechanism for it darwin did he had it for 20 years didn't really tell anybody mu... | Absolutely the; key because Darwin knew. that everybody was thinking about--Ed was absolutely right I, mean in medical school everybody was talking. about evolution by the mid-19th century, certainly but nobody had a mechanism for it Darwin did, He had it for 20 years didn't really tell anybody. ... | absolutely the key, because darwin knew that everybody was thinking about--ed was absolutely right. i mean, in medical school everybody was talking about evolution by the mid-19th century certainly, but nobody had a mechanism for it. darwin did. he had it for 20 years, didn't really tell anybody ... |
You agree, Ed? | you agree | You agree | you agree, ed? |
Sure. That was the way it worked. People were thinking about evolution but before you could become a plausible mechanism, there were so many arguments on the other side that without a plausible mechanism, people wouldn't switch over. But once that mechanism was offered, it was like a dam bursting... | sure that was the way it worked people were thinking about. evolution but, before you, could become a plausible mechanism there were so many arguments. on the other side that, without a plausible mechanism people, wouldn't switch over but once that mechanism was offered it, was like a dam | Sure That was the way it worked People were, thinking about evolution but before you could become a plausible mechanism there were so many arguments on the other side that without a plausible mechanism people wouldn't switch over But once that mechanism was offered it was, like a dam | sure. that was the way it worked. people were thinking about evolution but before you could become a plausible mechanism, there were so many arguments on the other side that without a plausible mechanism, people wouldn't switch over. but once that mechanism was offered, it was like a dam bursting... |
Yeah. | yeah. | ||
And it's remarkable how quickly the acceptance of evolution swept through the scientific community, and it did so for a variety of reasons. For most people, it just simply--most scientists it made more sense than the alternative, and further, it offered them new questions, new ways of looking at na... | and, it's remarkable how quickly the acceptance of evolution swept through the scientific community and it did so for a variety of reasons for most people it just simply--most scientists. it made. more sense than the alternative and, further it offered them new questions new ways of looking at natu... | And. it's remarkable how quickly the acceptance of evolution swept through the scientific community and it did so for a. variety of; reasons For most people it, just simply--most scientists it made, more sense than the alternative and further it offered them new questions new ways of looking at nat... | and it's remarkable how quickly the acceptance of evolution swept through the scientific community, and it did so for a variety of reasons. for most people, it just simply--most scientists it made more sense than the alternative, and further, it offered them new questions, new ways of looking at na... |
So Darwin's book was a bit hit when it came out. | so darwin's. book was a bit hit when it came | So, Darwin's book was a bit hit. when it came, | so darwin's book was a bit hit when it came out. |
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