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This week, the country is talking about race, and we are talking about how we talk about race? Do we really need to hear from you on this? Do you talk about race differently at the kitchen table than you do at the water cooler? How does the conversation change depending on who you're talking to? 800-989-8255, email, ta... | this week the country is, talking. about race and we are talking, about how we talk about race? do, we really need to hear from you on this? do you, talk about race differently at the kitchen table than you. do at the water cooler? how does the, conversation change depending on who, you're talking to? 800-989-8255, ema... | This week the country is. talking about race and we are talking about how we talk about race? Do we really need to hear from you on this? Do you talk about. race differently at the kitchen table than you do at the water cooler? How does. the conversation change depending on who you're talking to? 800-989-8255, email ta... | this week, the country is talking about race, and we are talking about how we talk about race? do we really need to hear from you on this? do you talk about race differently at the kitchen table than you do at the water cooler? how does the conversation change depending on who you're talking to? 800-989-8255, email, ta... |
Let's get another caller on the line. This is Sarah(ph). Sarah is with us from Folsom in Washington. | let's get another caller on the line this is sarah(ph). sarah is with us from; folsom in | Let's get another caller on the line This is Sarah(ph). Sarah is with us from Folsom in | let's get another caller on the line. this is sarah(ph). sarah is with us from folsom in washington. |
Folsom, California. | folsom | Folsom | folsom, california. |
California, all right. | california all, | California all | california, all right. |
Hi. Thank you for taking my call. My sister's first husband is black. And I was very young at the time that she married him. And he really - he opened my eyes to things like the experience of driving more black, and you know, the extent to which I'm very privileged. And what I find as a result of that experience is tha... | hi thank you; for taking my call my sister's; first husband is black and i was very young at the, time that she, married. him and he really - he opened my eyes to things like the experience of. driving more black and you know. the extent to which i'm very privileged, and what i find as a result of that experience is th... | Hi Thank you for taking. my, call My sister's first husband is black And I, was very, young at the time that she married him And he, really - he opened my eyes to things like the experience of driving more black and you know the extent to which I'm very privileged, And what I find as, a result of that experience is tha... | hi. thank you for taking my call. my sister's first husband is black. and i was very young at the time that she married him. and he really - he opened my eyes to things like the experience of driving more black, and you know, the extent to which i'm very privileged. and what i find as a result of that experience is tha... |
Hmm. | hmm. | ||
…on those things. But I'm also… | …on those things but i'm. | …on those things, But I'm | …on those things. but i'm also… |
To call them on it. | to call them on | To call them on | to call them on it. |
Call them on it? | call them on | Call them on | call them on it? |
Yeah, I mean, to say that's wrong. | yeah i mean to say that's | Yeah I mean to say that's | yeah, i mean, to say that's wrong. |
Yes, which is always a really uncomfortable thing to do, but I don't do it because I get some kind of high (unintelligible) because I feel that if it just - if it goes on without any comment then I (unintelligible) agreed to it. | yes which is always a really uncomfortable thing to do but i don't do it because i get, some kind of high (unintelligible) because i feel that if it, just - if it goes on without any comment then i (unintelligible) agreed to | Yes which is always a really uncomfortable thing to do, but I don't do it because. I get some, kind of high (unintelligible) because I, feel; that if it just - if it goes on without any comment. then I (unintelligible) agreed to | yes, which is always a really uncomfortable thing to do, but i don't do it because i get some kind of high (unintelligible) because i feel that if it just - if it goes on without any comment then i (unintelligible) agreed to it. |
And you're sort of an indicted co-conspirator. | and you're sort of an indicted | And you're, sort of an indicted | and you're sort of an indicted co-conspirator. |
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I've (unintelligible) agreed to remarks. And I also happen to be Jewish, and people don't think I look Jewish, and they will confide certain things in me. And so, I set them right. | yeah yeah i feel like i've, (unintelligible) agreed to remarks and i also happen to be jewish and people don't think i look. jewish and they will, confide certain things in me and so i set them | Yeah Yeah I feel. like I've (unintelligible) agreed to remarks And I. also. happen to be Jewish and people don't think I look Jewish and they will confide certain things in me And so I set them | yeah. yeah, i feel like i've (unintelligible) agreed to remarks. and i also happen to be jewish, and people don't think i look jewish, and they will confide certain things in me. and so, i set them right. |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
And how did these conversations go? I mean, do you say, you know, hey, wait a minute that's wrong? Or do you get angry? Do you try a joke maybe? | and how, did these conversations go? i mean do you say; you know hey wait a minute, that's wrong? or do you get angry? do you try a joke | And how did these conversations go? I mean. do you say you know hey, wait a minute that's wrong? Or do you get angry? Do you try. a joke; | and how did these conversations go? i mean, do you say, you know, hey, wait a minute that's wrong? or do you get angry? do you try a joke maybe? |
I find that there's not an easy way to do it, but in general, it's not a good idea to anger the person because then they won't be able to hear what I'm saying. But I will question them on it, I will question their assumptions. | i find that there's not an easy way to do it but in general it's not a good idea to anger the person because then, they won't be able, to hear what i'm saying but i will question them on, it i will question their | I find that, there's not an, easy way to do it but in general it's not a good idea to anger the. person because then they won't be able to hear what I'm saying, But I will question them on it I will question, their | i find that there's not an easy way to do it, but in general, it's not a good idea to anger the person because then they won't be able to hear what i'm saying. but i will question them on it, i will question their assumptions. |
Hmm. And do you think this is something important for you to do for yourself, nevertheless, if you lost friends over it. | hmm and. do, you think this is something important for you to, do for yourself. nevertheless if you lost friends over | Hmm And do you think this, is something important for you. to do. for yourself nevertheless if, you lost friends over | hmm. and do you think this is something important for you to do for yourself, nevertheless, if you lost friends over it. |
No, I haven't lost friends over it but I do think it's important to do. And I also think it's important to do because I am still, being white in this country, I am privileged, and being female, I don't - I can tell you, I don't get hassled at the airport to the extent that I've seen other people in the past. I think th... | no i haven't lost friends over it but i, do. think, it's important to do and. i also think it's important to do because i am still being white in this, country i am privileged and being female i don't - i can tell you i don't get hassled at the airport to the extent that i've seen other people in the, past i think that... | No, I haven't lost friends over it. but I do think it's important to do And, I. also think it's important to, do because, I am, still being white. in this country I am privileged and being female I don't - I can tell you I don't get hassled at the airport; to the extent that I've. seen, other people in the past, I thin... | no, i haven't lost friends over it but i do think it's important to do. and i also think it's important to do because i am still, being white in this country, i am privileged, and being female, i don't - i can tell you, i don't get hassled at the airport to the extent that i've seen other people in the past. i think th... |
Sarah, thanks very much for the call. | sarah thanks very much for the. | Sarah thanks very much, for the | sarah, thanks very much for the call. |
Okay, thank you. | okay thank | Okay thank | okay, thank you. |
I appreciate it. | i; appreciate | I appreciate | i appreciate it. |
Okay, bye-bye. | okay | Okay | okay, bye-bye. |
Joining us now is Robert Jensen. He's a professor of journalism at the University of Texas, and also the author of "The Heart of Whiteness: Confronting Race, Racism and White Privilege." And he's with us today from member station KUT in Austin, Texas. | joining us now is robert jensen, he's a professor of. journalism at the university of texas and also the, author of "the heart of whiteness: confronting race racism and white privilege" and he's with us today from member station kut in austin | Joining. us now is Robert Jensen He's a professor of journalism; at, the University of Texas and also the author, of "The Heart, of Whiteness: Confronting Race Racism and White Privilege" And. he's with us. today from member station, KUT in Austin | joining us now is robert jensen. he's a professor of journalism at the university of texas, and also the author of "the heart of whiteness: confronting race, racism and white privilege." and he's with us today from member station kut in austin, texas. |
Nice to have you on TALK OF THE NATION today. | nice to have you on talk of the nation | Nice to have you on TALK OF THE, NATION | nice to have you on talk of the nation today. |
Great to be with you, Neal. | great to be with you | Great to be with. you | great to be with you, neal. |
And I wonder, as a white man, I know you've written about how difficult it is sometimes to have conversations about race with, well, with other white people, in fact with anybody. | and i wonder as a white man i know you've written about how. difficult, it is sometimes to have conversations about race with well. with other white people in fact with | And I wonder as a white man I know you've written about how difficult it is sometimes to have conversations about race with well with, other white people in fact with | and i wonder, as a white man, i know you've written about how difficult it is sometimes to have conversations about race with, well, with other white people, in fact with anybody. |
Well, it's difficult in some sense, but of course, it's easy because in the dominant position, one can take on these questions quite easily. What I found is, it's actually much easier in some sense for me to talk about white supremacy than for some of my black colleagues and black friends, because they are going to be ... | well it's difficult in some sense but of course it's easy because in the dominant position one; can take on these questions quite, easily. what i found, is it's actually much easier in some sense for, me to talk, about white supremacy than for some of; my black colleagues and black friends because they are, going to be... | Well it's difficult in some sense but of course it's. easy because in the dominant position one, can take on these questions quite easily What I, found is it's actually much easier in some sense for me. to talk about white supremacy than for some of my black colleagues, and black friends because they are, going to be l... | well, it's difficult in some sense, but of course, it's easy because in the dominant position, one can take on these questions quite easily. what i found is, it's actually much easier in some sense for me to talk about white supremacy than for some of my black colleagues and black friends, because they are going to be ... |
Well, when you use expressions like white supremacy, I seem that you get (unintelligible) out of some white people. | well when you use expressions like white supremacy i seem that you get (unintelligible) out of some white | Well when you use expressions like white supremacy I seem that you get (unintelligible) out of some white | well, when you use expressions like white supremacy, i seem that you get (unintelligible) out of some white people. |
Yeah, because I think we have to recognize that white supremacy is the dominant ideology of the culture. And here I'm not talking about clan members and neo-Nazis, the overt white supremacist, but to recognize that we still live in a white supremacist society that, you know, ideological terms, the way have been, the kn... | yeah, because i think we have to recognize that white supremacy is, the dominant ideology of, the culture and here i'm. not talking about clan members and neo-nazis the overt white supremacist but; to recognize that. we, still live in, a white supremacist society that, you, know ideological terms; the way have been the... | Yeah because I think we have to recognize that white supremacy is the dominant. ideology, of, the culture, And here I'm not talking, about clan members and neo-Nazis the overt white supremacist but to recognize that we still live in a white supremacist society that you know ideological, terms the. way. have been the kn... | yeah, because i think we have to recognize that white supremacy is the dominant ideology of the culture. and here i'm not talking about clan members and neo-nazis, the overt white supremacist, but to recognize that we still live in a white supremacist society that, you know, ideological terms, the way have been, the kn... |
We're the most affluent country in the history of the world, the most powerful country in the history of the world. If we wanted to erase the racialized gaps in wealth and wellbeing that exist, we could do it. We simply choose not to. I think it's fair to call the United States a white supremacist society. | we're, the most affluent country in the history of the world. the most powerful country in the history of the world if we wanted to erase. the racialized gaps; in wealth and wellbeing that exist we. could do it we simply choose not to i think; it's fair to call the united states a white supremacist. | We're the most affluent country in the history, of. the world the most powerful country in the history of the world If we wanted to erase the racialized gaps in. wealth and wellbeing that exist we could do it We simply choose not to I think it's fair to. call the United States a, white supremacist | we're the most affluent country in the history of the world, the most powerful country in the history of the world. if we wanted to erase the racialized gaps in wealth and wellbeing that exist, we could do it. we simply choose not to. i think it's fair to call the united states a white supremacist society. |
And you also talk about the origins of the fears of white people including a fear - getting back to what you were just saying - of losing what we, white people, have. | and you also talk about the origins of the fears of white, people including, a fear - getting back to what you were just saying - of losing what we white people | And you also, talk about the origins of the fears of white people including a fear - getting, back to what you were just saying - of losing what we, white people | and you also talk about the origins of the fears of white people including a fear - getting back to what you were just saying - of losing what we, white people, have. |
Right. I think there's a lot of fears that work within us who are white. One, as you point out, is that we realize at some level that some of the material goods we get in this culture, as white folks are connected to that racialized disparity, so there's a fear of loosing actual things. There's the fear of losing statu... | right i think there's a lot of fears that work within us. who are white one as you. point out. is that we realize. at. some level that some of the material, goods we get in this culture as white. folks, are connected to that racialized disparity. so there's a fear; of loosing actual things, there's the, fear of losing.... | Right I think there's a lot of fears that work. within us, who are white One. as you point out is that we realize at some level that some of the material goods we get in this culture as white, folks are. connected to that. racialized disparity. so there's a fear of loosing actual things There's the fear of losing statu... | right. i think there's a lot of fears that work within us who are white. one, as you point out, is that we realize at some level that some of the material goods we get in this culture, as white folks are connected to that racialized disparity, so there's a fear of loosing actual things. there's the fear of losing statu... |
But there's other fears working for white folks; I think at some level white people know that some of what we have has nothing to do with our own hard work, our own brilliance. It has to do with living in that position of privilege. And we're afraid to confront that. | but there's other fears working for white folks i think at some level white people know. that some of what we have has nothing to, do with our own hard work our own brilliance it has to do with living in that position of privilege and we're afraid to confront | But there's other fears working for. white folks I think. at some level white people know; that some of what we have has nothing. to do with our own hard work. our own brilliance It has, to do with living in that position of privilege And we're afraid to. confront | but there's other fears working for white folks; i think at some level white people know that some of what we have has nothing to do with our own hard work, our own brilliance. it has to do with living in that position of privilege. and we're afraid to confront that. |
The other thing I've noticed and this was a very painful process of coming to terms within myself, is that white people especially us, good liberal white folks, those about who are suppose to get it also carry around within us, of course, a lot of racist training. And I think a lot of white people again, especially lib... | the other thing i've; noticed and this was a very painful process of coming to terms, within myself is that white people especially us good liberal. white folks those, about who are suppose to get it also carry, around, within us of course. a lot. of racist. training and i think a lot of white people again especially l... | The other thing, I've noticed and this was a very. painful. process of coming to terms, within myself is, that white people especially us good liberal. white folks those about, who are suppose to get it, also carry. around within us of course a lot of racist training And I. think a lot of white people again especially ... | the other thing i've noticed and this was a very painful process of coming to terms within myself, is that white people especially us, good liberal white folks, those about who are suppose to get it also carry around within us, of course, a lot of racist training. and i think a lot of white people again, especially lib... |
So I think part of the hesitancy to talk about race on the part of white people is a fear of stepping out into this what seems like very dangerous territory on the possibility that people of color might see you or more appropriately perhaps see through us and recognize the lingering effects of that racist training. But... | so i think; part of the hesitancy to talk. about race on the part of white people is a fear, of stepping out into this what seems like very dangerous territory on the possibility that. people of color might see you or more appropriately perhaps see through us and recognize, the lingering effects of that, racist trainin... | So I think part of the hesitancy to talk about race on the part of white people is a fear of stepping out. into this what seems like very dangerous territory on the possibility that people of color might see you, or more appropriately perhaps see through us and recognize the lingering effects. of that racist training B... | so i think part of the hesitancy to talk about race on the part of white people is a fear of stepping out into this what seems like very dangerous territory on the possibility that people of color might see you or more appropriately perhaps see through us and recognize the lingering effects of that racist training. but... |
Let's get another caller on the line. This is Kim(ph). And Kim is calling from Goshen, Indiana. | let's get another caller on the line this is kim(ph). and kim is calling from goshen, | Let's. get another caller on the line This is Kim(ph). And Kim is calling. from. Goshen | let's get another caller on the line. this is kim(ph). and kim is calling from goshen, indiana. |
Hi, Neal. | hi | Hi | hi, neal. |
Hi. | hi. | ||
Oh, I absolutely agree. It doesn't sound at all shocking to me when he talks about this being the white supremacist nation. My daughter, my 12-year-old daughter is of mixed race, and my parents are very racist. My mom will say things in front of my daughter, like she's worried about Sasha(ph) never getting a boyfriend ... | oh i absolutely agree it doesn't sound at all shocking to me. when he talks, about this being the white, supremacist. nation my daughter my 12-year-old daughter is of mixed race and my parents are very racist my mom will say things. in front of my daughter like she's worried. about, sasha(ph) never. getting a boyfriend... | Oh I absolutely agree It doesn't sound at all shocking to me, when he talks about this being the white supremacist nation My daughter my 12-year-old daughter is of mixed race and my parents are very racist. My mom will say things in front of my daughter like she's worried about Sasha(ph) never getting a boyfriend becau... | oh, i absolutely agree. it doesn't sound at all shocking to me when he talks about this being the white supremacist nation. my daughter, my 12-year-old daughter is of mixed race, and my parents are very racist. my mom will say things in front of my daughter, like she's worried about sasha(ph) never getting a boyfriend ... |
In front of her? | in front of | In front of | in front of her? |
Yes, in front of her. And she refers - my mother refers to my daughter's black family that lives in North Carolina, she refers to them as those colored people. And when she says that, my daughter will say, grandma, why do you call them that? And I say mom, you really must watch it. You know that's not right. | yes in front of her and she refers - my mother refers to my daughter's black family that lives in north carolina she refers to them as those colored people and, when she says that my daughter will say grandma why do you call them that? and i say mom you really must watch it you know that's not | Yes in. front of her And she refers, - my mother, refers, to my daughter's black, family that. lives in North Carolina she, refers to them as those, colored people And when she says that my daughter. will say grandma why do you. call them that? And I say mom you really must watch it. You know; that's not | yes, in front of her. and she refers - my mother refers to my daughter's black family that lives in north carolina, she refers to them as those colored people. and when she says that, my daughter will say, grandma, why do you call them that? and i say mom, you really must watch it. you know that's not right. |
There must have been a moment, I don't know if you heard the senator's speech, but when he was talking about the inability to disown his own grandmother… | there must. have been. a moment i don't know, if you heard the senator's speech but when he was talking about the inability to disown his. own | There must have. been a, moment I don't know if you heard the senator's speech but when he was, talking about; the inability to disown, his own | there must have been a moment, i don't know if you heard the senator's speech, but when he was talking about the inability to disown his own grandmother… |
Yeah, I know. | yeah i | Yeah I | yeah, i know. |
…must have been striking quite how close to home. | …must have been striking quite how close to | …must have been striking quite how close to | …must have been striking quite how close to home. |
I know. That's the reason why I called. When I heard you say that, I thought, oh, my gosh, I've got to tell Neal, my mom does the exact same thing to my 12-year-old daughter. So, I absolutely understand where Senator Obama is coming from than that, and I'm sorry he had to deal with it and I'm sorry my daughter has to d... | i know that's the reason why i called when i heard you say that i thought oh my gosh i've got to tell neal my mom does the exact same thing. to my 12-year-old daughter so i; absolutely understand where senator obama is coming from than that and i'm sorry he had to deal with it and i'm sorry my daughter has to deal with... | I know That's the reason why I called When I heard you say that I thought oh my gosh I've. got to tell Neal my mom does the exact same thing to, my 12-year-old daughter. So I absolutely understand where Senator Obama is coming from than, that and I'm sorry; he, had, to deal with it and I'm sorry my daughter has to deal... | i know. that's the reason why i called. when i heard you say that, i thought, oh, my gosh, i've got to tell neal, my mom does the exact same thing to my 12-year-old daughter. so, i absolutely understand where senator obama is coming from than that, and i'm sorry he had to deal with it and i'm sorry my daughter has to d... |
You know, we are too, nevertheless, is this a subject you can talk to with your mother, apparently not productively? | you know we are too nevertheless; is this a subject you can talk to with your mother apparently not | You. know, we are too nevertheless is this a subject you can talk to with your mother apparently not | you know, we are too, nevertheless, is this a subject you can talk to with your mother, apparently not productively? |
That's right. I can talk to her until I'm blue in the face. My parents are both this way. Yeah, they are absolutely steadfast in their feelings that they don't see anything wrong with the way they think or the way they believe. | that's right. i can talk to, her until i'm, blue in the face my parents are both this way yeah they are absolutely steadfast in their feelings that they don't see anything wrong with the way they think or the way. they | That's right I can talk to her until I'm blue in the face My, parents are both this way Yeah they are absolutely steadfast in their feelings that they don't see; anything wrong with the way they think or the way they | that's right. i can talk to her until i'm blue in the face. my parents are both this way. yeah, they are absolutely steadfast in their feelings that they don't see anything wrong with the way they think or the way they believe. |
And some people might say, you know, why do you take your daughter there anymore if she's going to be subject to what a lot of people with regard is abuse. | and some people might say; you know why, do you take your daughter there anymore if she's going to be, subject to, what a lot of people with regard is | And some people might say you know why do you take your daughter there anymore if she's going to be subject to what a lot of people; with regard is | and some people might say, you know, why do you take your daughter there anymore if she's going to be subject to what a lot of people with regard is abuse. |
Well, yes, but we are blood, and while I am trying to correct mom and dad in the way they think, and now, you know, there's no getting around it. I, in my way, in my relationship with my daughter, teach her that the way grandma and grandpa feel is wrong. And she knows - as she sees, she is the only mixed race child in ... | well yes. but we are, blood and while i am trying to correct. mom and dad in the way they think and now you know there's no getting. around it i in my way in my relationship with my daughter teach. her that the way grandma and grandpa feel, is, wrong and she knows - as she sees she is the only mixed race child in our f... | Well yes but we are blood and while I am trying to correct mom and dad in the way they think and now. you know there's no getting around it I in my way in my relationship with my daughter teach her that the way grandma and grandpa feel is wrong And. she knows; - as she sees she is the. only mixed race child in our fami... | well, yes, but we are blood, and while i am trying to correct mom and dad in the way they think, and now, you know, there's no getting around it. i, in my way, in my relationship with my daughter, teach her that the way grandma and grandpa feel is wrong. and she knows - as she sees, she is the only mixed race child in ... |
I suspect - let's hope that's true. Let's hope that's true. Thanks very much for the call Kim. | i suspect - let's hope that's true let's hope that's true thanks very much for, the call. | I suspect - let's hope that's. true Let's hope that's, true Thanks very much, for the call | i suspect - let's hope that's true. let's hope that's true. thanks very much for the call kim. |
You're welcome. | you're | You're | you're welcome. |
And we wish you, you and your daughter the best of luck. | and we wish you you and your daughter the best of | And we wish you you and your, daughter the best of | and we wish you, you and your daughter the best of luck. |
Thank you. | thank | Thank | thank you. |
And I wonder Robert Jensen, you were talking about fears earlier and confronting them. Just hearing that phone call, there was an incident you described in your essay, an incident that came, I guess another one of those teachable moments, this was about the O.J. trial, you found you found yourself on a panel sitting ne... | and i wonder robert jensen you were talking about fears earlier and confronting them just. hearing that phone call there was an incident you described in your essay an incident that came i guess another, one of those teachable moments this was about the o.j trial you found you found yourself on a panel sitting next to ... | And I. wonder Robert Jensen you were. talking about fears earlier and confronting them Just hearing that phone call there was an incident you described in your essay an incident that came I guess, another. one of those teachable; moments this was about the O.J trial you found you found yourself on a panel sitting next ... | and i wonder robert jensen, you were talking about fears earlier and confronting them. just hearing that phone call, there was an incident you described in your essay, an incident that came, i guess another one of those teachable moments, this was about the o.j. trial, you found you found yourself on a panel sitting ne... |
Yeah, it's one of those times when I have to confront my own fears. So there I was the expert white guy who's supposed to know things about this. And I realized that in public, I was afraid that my colleagues sitting next to me, a very good scholar and a very decent human being was going to somehow see through me, see ... | yeah it's one of those times, when i have to confront my. own fears so there i, was the expert white guy who's supposed to know things about this and i realized that in public i was afraid that my colleagues sitting next to me a very good scholar and a very decent, human being was going to somehow, see through me see t... | Yeah it's one. of those times, when I have to confront my. own fears So there I was the expert, white guy who's supposed to; know. things about this And I realized that in, public I was afraid that my colleagues sitting next to me a very, good scholar and a very decent human being was going to somehow see through, me s... | yeah, it's one of those times when i have to confront my own fears. so there i was the expert white guy who's supposed to know things about this. and i realized that in public, i was afraid that my colleagues sitting next to me, a very good scholar and a very decent human being was going to somehow see through me, see ... |
Elizabeth Nunez, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. Appreciate it. | elizabeth nunez thank you so much for taking the time to be with us appreciate | Elizabeth Nunez thank you so much for taking the, time. to be with us Appreciate | elizabeth nunez, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. appreciate it. |
You're most welcome. | you're most | You're most | you're most welcome. |
And I think the only thing that I can testify to you is that, if one does that, one not only becomes a better person in some sort of moral or political sense that life gets a lot better when you shed fears, you move through the world in a much more productive and in satisfying ways. So for those of us who are white, I ... | and i think the only thing that, i can testify to you is that. if one does that one not only becomes a better, person, in some sort of, moral or political sense, that life gets a lot better, when you shed fears you move through the world in a much more productive and in satisfying ways so for those of us who, are white... | And I think the only thing that I can testify to you is that if one does that one not only becomes a better person; in some sort of moral or political sense that life gets a lot better when you shed fears you move through the world in a. much more productive and in satisfying ways So for those of us who are white I thi... | and i think the only thing that i can testify to you is that, if one does that, one not only becomes a better person in some sort of moral or political sense that life gets a lot better when you shed fears, you move through the world in a much more productive and in satisfying ways. so for those of us who are white, i ... |
But I also think we have to talk honestly about what I suppose we could call an argument from self interest that our own lives become richer and more meaningful when we have the courage to confront these things. And these things come up every day. I just came from class where a similar kind of incident reminded me much... | but i also think we have to, talk honestly about, what, i suppose we, could call an argument from self interest that our own, lives become richer and more meaningful. when we have the courage to confront these things and; these things come up every day i just came from class where a similar kind of incident reminded me... | But I also think we have to talk honestly about what I suppose we could call an argument from self interest that our own lives become richer; and more meaningful when we have the courage to confront. these things And these things come up every day I just, came from class where a similar kind of. incident reminded me mu... | but i also think we have to talk honestly about what i suppose we could call an argument from self interest that our own lives become richer and more meaningful when we have the courage to confront these things. and these things come up every day. i just came from class where a similar kind of incident reminded me much... |
What was the incident? | what was the | What was the | what was the incident? |
Well, I was announcing an event coming up by a speaker with a Hispanic name and I stumbled over it and I instead of you know, sort of retreating from it, I made the point quite obviously that those of us who grew up in predominantly Anglo areas often have trouble with other names. And instead of avoiding it, we should ... | well, i was announcing an event coming, up by; a speaker with a hispanic name and i stumbled over it and i, instead of you know sort, of retreating, from it i made. the point quite obviously. that those. of us who grew up; in predominantly anglo areas often have trouble with other names and instead of avoiding it we sh... | Well I was announcing. an event coming up by a speaker with a Hispanic name and I stumbled over it and, I instead. of you know sort of retreating from it I made the point quite obviously. that those of us who grew up in predominantly Anglo areas often have trouble with other names And instead of avoiding it we, should ... | well, i was announcing an event coming up by a speaker with a hispanic name and i stumbled over it and i instead of you know, sort of retreating from it, i made the point quite obviously that those of us who grew up in predominantly anglo areas often have trouble with other names. and instead of avoiding it, we should ... |
Robert Jensen, thanks very much for your talk today. | robert jensen thanks very much for your talk | Robert Jensen thanks very much for your talk | robert jensen, thanks very much for your talk today. |
JENSEN: Great to be with you. | jensen: great to be with | JENSEN: Great to; be, with | jensen: great to be with you. |
Robert Jensen, a professor of journalism at the University of Texas at Austin; the author of "The Heart of Whiteness: Confronting Race, Racism and White Privilege." He joined us today from member station KUT in Austin, Texas. | robert jensen a professor. of journalism at the university of texas at, austin the author of "the heart of whiteness: confronting race racism and white privilege" he joined us today from member station kut in austin | Robert Jensen a professor of journalism at, the University of Texas at Austin the author of "The Heart of Whiteness: Confronting Race Racism and; White Privilege" He, joined us today. from member station KUT in Austin | robert jensen, a professor of journalism at the university of texas at austin; the author of "the heart of whiteness: confronting race, racism and white privilege." he joined us today from member station kut in austin, texas. |
If you like to join this conversation, give us a phone call, 800-989-8255. E-mail us, talk@npr.org; and you can check out what other listeners are writing about on our blog at npr.org/blogofthenation. | if you like to join this conversation give us a phone call 800-989-8255. e-mail us talk@npr.org, and you can check out what. other, listeners are writing about on, our blog at | If you like to join this conversation give us a phone. call 800-989-8255. E-mail us talk@npr.org and you can, check out what other listeners are writing about on our blog at. | if you like to join this conversation, give us a phone call, 800-989-8255. e-mail us, talk@npr.org; and you can check out what other listeners are writing about on our blog at npr.org/blogofthenation. |
This is TALK OF NATION from NPR News. I'm Neal Conan. | this is talk of nation from npr news i'm neal | This is TALK OF NATION from NPR News I'm Neal | this is talk of nation from npr news. i'm neal conan. |
And joining us now - not everybody thought Senator Obama's speech started a good dialogue - Michael Meyers is executive director of the New York Civil Rights Coalition. His op-ed called "Obama Blew It" appeared in today's Los Angeles Times. And he joins us today from NPR's bureau in New York. | and joining us now - not everybody thought, senator obama's speech started a good dialogue - michael meyers is executive director of the new york civil rights coalition his op-ed called "obama blew, it" appeared, in today's, los angeles times and he joins us. today from npr's bureau in. new | And joining us now - not everybody thought. Senator Obama's, speech started a good dialogue, - Michael Meyers is executive director of the, New York Civil, Rights Coalition, His op-ed called "Obama Blew It" appeared, in today's Los Angeles Times. And he joins, us today from NPR's bureau in New | and joining us now - not everybody thought senator obama's speech started a good dialogue - michael meyers is executive director of the new york civil rights coalition. his op-ed called "obama blew it" appeared in today's los angeles times. and he joins us today from npr's bureau in new york. |
Nice to have you with us today. | nice; to have you with us | Nice to have, you with us | nice to have you with us today. |
Thank you. | thank; | Thank | thank you. |
And Senator Obama addressed how race is affecting his campaign. In your op-ed, you say he blew it and explained racial differences, amplified deep seated racial tensions. Should we not address race at this point? | and senator obama addressed how race is affecting. his campaign in your op-ed; you say. he blew it and explained racial differences amplified deep seated racial, tensions should we not address race at, this | And Senator Obama addressed how race. is affecting his campaign In your op-ed you. say he blew it and explained. racial differences amplified, deep seated racial tensions Should we not address race at this | and senator obama addressed how race is affecting his campaign. in your op-ed, you say he blew it and explained racial differences, amplified deep seated racial tensions. should we not address race at this point? |
Well, I think we have to address race and talk about race differently, and that was the uniqueness of the Obama candidacy up into the point of his speech on race. And that, you know, this notion of mixed races - that's a racial idiocy. We all belong to the same race, that's the human race. And if civil rights community... | well i think we have to, address race and talk about race differently and. that was the uniqueness of the obama, candidacy up into the point of his speech on race and that you know this notion of mixed races - that's a racial idiocy we all belong to the same race. that's the human race and if civil rights community in,... | Well I think we have to address race and talk, about race differently and that was, the uniqueness of the Obama candidacy up into the point of his speech on race And that you know this notion of mixed races. - that's a racial idiocy We. all belong to. the same race that's the human race And if civil rights community in... | well, i think we have to address race and talk about race differently, and that was the uniqueness of the obama candidacy up into the point of his speech on race. and that, you know, this notion of mixed races - that's a racial idiocy. we all belong to the same race, that's the human race. and if civil rights community... |
So, you know, when Obama has started talking about groups such as whites who resent affirmative action against the gay, you know, there are plenty of whites who supported affirmative action and that support for affirmative action is not a racial test or opposition to affirmative action. It's not a racial test. You know... | so, you know when, obama has started talking about groups such as whites who resent affirmative action against the gay you know there, are plenty of. whites who supported affirmative action and, that support for affirmative action is not a racial test or opposition to affirmative action it's not. a racial test you know... | So you know when Obama has started talking about groups such as whites who resent affirmative action against the gay you know there are plenty; of whites who supported affirmative action and that support for affirmative action is not; a racial test or opposition to affirmative action It's not a racial test You know peo... | so, you know, when obama has started talking about groups such as whites who resent affirmative action against the gay, you know, there are plenty of whites who supported affirmative action and that support for affirmative action is not a racial test or opposition to affirmative action. it's not a racial test. you know... |
And so when ministers such as the Reverend Jeremiah Wright talks racial nonsense and speaks as bigot, then we have to condemn that as bigotry when Louis Farrakhan speaks as a bigot, we must condemn it as bigotry. And I don't want to hear nonsense - that's what it is - about one has to have a trained ear. My ear is trai... | and so when ministers such as the reverend jeremiah. wright, talks racial nonsense and speaks as bigot then we have, to condemn that as bigotry. when louis farrakhan speaks as a, bigot we must. condemn it. as bigotry and, i don't want to hear nonsense - that's what it is - about one has to have a trained ear my ear is ... | And so when ministers such as the Reverend Jeremiah Wright talks racial nonsense and speaks as bigot. then we have to condemn that as. bigotry when. Louis Farrakhan speaks as a, bigot, we must condemn it, as, bigotry And I don't want to hear. nonsense - that's what it is - about one, has to have a trained ear, My ear i... | and so when ministers such as the reverend jeremiah wright talks racial nonsense and speaks as bigot, then we have to condemn that as bigotry when louis farrakhan speaks as a bigot, we must condemn it as bigotry. and i don't want to hear nonsense - that's what it is - about one has to have a trained ear. my ear is trai... |
In your piece, in fact, you said that that reference to the untrained ear meaning whites and Asians and Latinos don't understand. | in, your piece in fact you, said that that reference to the untrained ear meaning whites and asians and latinos don't | In your piece in fact you said that that reference to the untrained ear meaning, whites and, Asians and Latinos don't | in your piece, in fact, you said that that reference to the untrained ear meaning whites and asians and latinos don't understand. |
Well, that's what this implication is. | well that's what this implication | Well that's what. this implication | well, that's what this implication is. |
Yes. | yes. | ||
I think there are people who understand bigotry. And my point is that I believe that we share one nation that is united not around racial fiefdoms and tribalism, ethnic polarization, ethnic chauvinism or whether or not one is married black and white and whether or not you're a hybrid - all that is racial nonsense, all ... | i think. there are people who understand bigotry and my point is that i believe that we share one nation that is, united not around racial. fiefdoms and tribalism ethnic. polarization ethnic chauvinism or whether or not. one is married black and white and, whether or not you're a hybrid - all that is racial nonsense al... | I think there are people who understand bigotry, And my. point, is that I believe that we share one nation that is, united not around racial fiefdoms, and tribalism ethnic polarization ethnic chauvinism or whether or. not one is married black and white and whether or not you're a hybrid - all that is. racial nonsense a... | i think there are people who understand bigotry. and my point is that i believe that we share one nation that is united not around racial fiefdoms and tribalism, ethnic polarization, ethnic chauvinism or whether or not one is married black and white and whether or not you're a hybrid - all that is racial nonsense, all ... |
Hi. I'm an Asian-American and I want to talk about a little bit about some of that race conversation amongst my Asian friends. I think there is a diversity of some of the topics and the view about race. I mean, some of us will get really excited when we, say for example, watching "American Idol" or American's best danc... | hi i'm an asian-american and i want. to talk about a little bit about some of that race. conversation amongst my asian friends i think there. is a diversity of some, of the topics and the view, about race i, mean some of us will get really excited when we say for example watching "american. idol" or american's best dan... | Hi I'm an Asian-American and I want to talk about a little bit about some of that race conversation amongst my Asian friends I think there is a diversity of some. of the topics and the view about race I mean some. of us will get really excited when, we say for example watching "American Idol" or American's best dance g... | hi. i'm an asian-american and i want to talk about a little bit about some of that race conversation amongst my asian friends. i think there is a diversity of some of the topics and the view about race. i mean, some of us will get really excited when we, say for example, watching "american idol" or american's best danc... |
(Soundbite of music) | (soundbite of. | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of music) |
And Obama was the transformational candidate who want to be judged based on his qualifications, based on his character, based on his philosophies, based on his policies, based on his notion of change. And change means getting away from the notion that we can judge people and group people and think about people and thin... | and obama was the transformational candidate who want to be judged based on his qualifications based on his character based on his philosophies based on his policies based on his notion of change and change means getting. away from the notion that. we can judge people and group people and think about people and think a... | And Obama was the transformational candidate who want to be judged based on his qualifications based on his character based on his philosophies based on his policies based on his notion of change And change means getting away from the notion that we can judge people and group people, and think about people and think ab... | and obama was the transformational candidate who want to be judged based on his qualifications, based on his character, based on his philosophies, based on his policies, based on his notion of change. and change means getting away from the notion that we can judge people and group people and think about people and thin... |
Mike Meyers, stay with us if you will. | mike. meyers stay with us if you | Mike Meyers stay with us if you | mike meyers, stay with us if you will. |
And we're going to continue this conversation. When we come back, we'll talk more about how we discuss race at the kitchen table, at the office, with our families, and including a conversation with Gustavo Arellano on the role that humor can play in the conversation. If you'd like to join us, 800-989-8255, e-mail talk@... | and we're going to continue this conversation. when we come back we'll talk more about how we discuss race at the kitchen table at the office with, our families and including, a conversation. with gustavo arellano on the role, that humor can play in, the conversation if you'd like to join us 800-989-8255, e-mail, | And we're going to continue this conversation When we come back we'll talk more about, how we discuss race at, the kitchen table. at the office with our families and including, a, conversation with Gustavo Arellano on the role that humor can play in the conversation If you'd like to join us 800-989-8255, e-mail | and we're going to continue this conversation. when we come back, we'll talk more about how we discuss race at the kitchen table, at the office, with our families, and including a conversation with gustavo arellano on the role that humor can play in the conversation. if you'd like to join us, 800-989-8255, e-mail talk@... |
I'm Neal Conan. Stay with us. It's the TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. | i'm neal. conan stay with us it's the talk of the nation from npr | I'm Neal Conan Stay with us It's the TALK OF THE NATION from NPR | i'm neal conan. stay with us. it's the talk of the nation from npr news. |
(Soundbite of music) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of music) |
This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington. | this is talk of the. nation i'm neal conan in | This is TALK OF THE NATION I'm Neal Conan in | this is talk of the nation. i'm neal conan in washington. |
Today, we're taking a moment to examine what we talk about when we talk about race with our families, with people of different backgrounds and how that conversation changes from place to place, group to group, person to person. How do you talk about race? 800-989-8255. E-mail us talk@npr.org. | today we're taking a moment to examine what we talk about when we talk. about race with our families, with people of different backgrounds and, how that conversation changes from place to place group; to group person to person how do you talk about race? 800-989-8255. e-mail us | Today we're taking. a moment to examine what we talk about when we talk about, race with our families with people of different backgrounds and how that conversation changes. from place to place group to group person to, person How do you talk about race? 800-989-8255. E-mail us | today, we're taking a moment to examine what we talk about when we talk about race with our families, with people of different backgrounds and how that conversation changes from place to place, group to group, person to person. how do you talk about race? 800-989-8255. e-mail us talk@npr.org. |
Our guest is Michael Meyers, executive director of the New York Civil Rights Coalition, who wrote an op-ed entitled "Obama Blew It," which appeared in the Los Angeles Times. He's with us from our bureau in New York. Let's get a caller on the line. And this is Julie(ph). Julie's with us from Reno in Nevada. | our guest is michael meyers executive director of. the new york civil rights coalition who. wrote an op-ed entitled "obama blew it" which appeared in the los angeles times he's with us from our bureau in new york let's get, a caller on the line and this is julie(ph). julie's with us from reno in | Our guest is Michael Meyers executive director of the New York Civil Rights Coalition who. wrote an op-ed entitled "Obama Blew It" which appeared in the Los, Angeles Times He's with us from our bureau in New York. Let's; get a caller on; the line And this is Julie(ph). Julie's with us from Reno in | our guest is michael meyers, executive director of the new york civil rights coalition, who wrote an op-ed entitled "obama blew it," which appeared in the los angeles times. he's with us from our bureau in new york. let's get a caller on the line. and this is julie(ph). julie's with us from reno in nevada. |
Hello? | hello? | ||
Hi, Julie, you're on the air. | hi julie you're on the | Hi Julie you're. on the | hi, julie, you're on the air. |
Hi. I'm calling because I have a question about how to (unintelligible) to talk about race in the classroom? I find my students when I ask about race and where they see it to all be very open and not to admit that we have race problems in society. | hi i'm calling because i have a. question about how to (unintelligible) to talk about race in the classroom? i find, my students when i ask, about race and where, they. see it to all be very open and not to admit that we. have race problems in; | Hi I'm calling because I have a, question about how to (unintelligible) to talk about race in the classroom? I find my, students, when I ask about race and where they see it to all, be very open and not to admit that we have race problems in | hi. i'm calling because i have a question about how to (unintelligible) to talk about race in the classroom? i find my students when i ask about race and where they see it to all be very open and not to admit that we have race problems in society. |
Do you have any advice for her, Michael Meyers? | do you have any advice for her michael | Do you have any advice for her Michael | do you have any advice for her, michael meyers? |
Yes, the New York Civil Rights Coalition runs a program in the schools. It's called the unlearning stereotypes, a civil rights and race relations program. And what we do is we send volunteer lawyers and law students. We team them up and usually by racially and male and female as a team, two people go in to a classroom ... | yes the new, york civil rights coalition. runs a program in the schools it's called the unlearning stereotypes a civil rights and race relations program and, what we do is we send, volunteer lawyers and law students we team them up and usually by racially and male and female as a team two people go in to. a classroom a... | Yes the New York Civil Rights Coalition runs a program in the schools It's called the unlearning stereotypes a civil rights. and race relations program And what we do is we send volunteer lawyers and law students We team. them up and, usually by racially and male and female as a team two people go in to a classroom at,... | yes, the new york civil rights coalition runs a program in the schools. it's called the unlearning stereotypes, a civil rights and race relations program. and what we do is we send volunteer lawyers and law students. we team them up and usually by racially and male and female as a team, two people go in to a classroom ... |
Julie, does that description of - describe your students but first of all, how old are they? | julie does that description, of - describe your students but first of all how old are | Julie does that description of - describe your. students but first of all how old are | julie, does that description of - describe your students but first of all, how old are they? |
They're freshmen in college. And it does, it seems like they have been taught that they shouldn't be racist so that when you ask them questions about where you see race that they don't what to admit that there is a problem. I mean, they do seem reluctant to bring up, you know, individual cases. And they are dating you ... | they're, freshmen in college and. it does it seems like they have been taught, that they shouldn't be racist. so that when you ask them questions about where you see race that they don't, what to admit that there is a problem i mean they do seem reluctant to bring up you know individual cases and they are dating you kn... | They're freshmen in college. And it does, it seems like, they have been taught that they shouldn't be racist so that when you ask them. questions about. where you see race that they don't what to admit that there is a problem I mean they do seem reluctant; to bring up you know individual cases And they are dating you k... | they're freshmen in college. and it does, it seems like they have been taught that they shouldn't be racist so that when you ask them questions about where you see race that they don't what to admit that there is a problem. i mean, they do seem reluctant to bring up, you know, individual cases. and they are dating you ... |
Do you worry that they're blinkered and ignoring things that are boring? Are you hopeful that they're maybe as Michael Meyers was saying, a new generation that has new attitudes? | do you worry that they're blinkered and ignoring things that are boring? are you. hopeful, that. they're maybe as michael meyers was saying a new generation that has new | Do you worry, that they're blinkered and ignoring things that, are boring? Are. you hopeful that they're maybe, as Michael Meyers was, saying. a new generation that has new | do you worry that they're blinkered and ignoring things that are boring? are you hopeful that they're maybe as michael meyers was saying, a new generation that has new attitudes? |
Well, I'm hopeful that they are open to other races. But I do think that sometimes perhaps they're ignoring issues of race because they don't necessarily see it within their community or environment or friendships. | well i'm hopeful that they are open to other races but i do think. that sometimes perhaps they're ignoring issues of race because they don't necessarily see it within their community or environment, or | Well I'm hopeful that they are open to other races. But I do think that sometimes, perhaps they're ignoring issues of race because they don't necessarily see it within their community or environment or | well, i'm hopeful that they are open to other races. but i do think that sometimes perhaps they're ignoring issues of race because they don't necessarily see it within their community or environment or friendships. |
Mm-hmm | mm-hmm | ||
Well, I look at the college communities in particular. And I was talking about high schools with respect to unlearning stereotype program. In high schools in particular, you find that the college and universities, we reinforce in which is a cultural difference and race. And they bring black students, for example, to co... | well i look at the college communities in particular. and, i was talking about high schools with respect to unlearning stereotype program in high schools in particular you find. that the college and universities we reinforce in which is a cultural difference and race and they bring black students for. example to colleg... | Well I look at the college communities. in particular And I was talking about high schools with respect to unlearning stereotype program In, high schools in particular you find that the college and universities we reinforce. in. which is a cultural. difference and race And they, bring black students for, example to col... | well, i look at the college communities in particular. and i was talking about high schools with respect to unlearning stereotype program. in high schools in particular, you find that the college and universities, we reinforce in which is a cultural difference and race. and they bring black students, for example, to co... |
Julie, thanks very much for the call. | julie thanks very much for, the | Julie thanks. very much for the | julie, thanks very much for the call. |
Thank you. | thank | Thank | thank you. |
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