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We know what really does help is paying attention to why these kids are out there committing crime in the first place and also doing something about the size and the way in which you use your police force, and those are obviously much more expensive and time-consuming measures.	we know what really does help is paying attention; to why these kids are out there committing crime in the first, place and also doing something about the size and the way in, which you use your police force and those are obviously much more expensive and time-consuming	We know what really does help is paying attention to why these kids are out there, committing crime in, the first place. and also doing something about the size and the way in which you use your police, force and those are obviously much more expensive, and time-consuming	we know what really does help is paying attention to why these kids are out there committing crime in the first place and also doing something about the size and the way in which you use your police force, and those are obviously much more expensive and time-consuming measures.
You cited in your column a very interesting statistic about crime and juvenile unemployment.	you cited in your column a very interesting statistic about crime, and juvenile	You cited, in your column a very interesting statistic about crime and. juvenile	you cited in your column a very interesting statistic about crime and juvenile unemployment.
Yes. In fact, there's been a fascinating study that shows that youth unemployment and crime track each other in an almost remarkable way; if you graph it out, the two lines follow each other in lockstep. And so as we've seen a bump up in youth unemployment, we are seeing more in the way of some offenses around town.	yes in fact there's been a fascinating study that shows that youth unemployment and crime track each other in an almost, remarkable way if you graph it out the two lines, follow each; other in lockstep and; so as we've seen a bump up in youth unemployment we are. seeing more in the way of some offenses around	Yes In fact there's been a fascinating study that shows that youth unemployment and crime track each other, in an almost remarkable way if you graph it out the two lines follow each other in lockstep, And so as we've seen a, bump up in youth unemployment we are seeing more, in the way of some offenses around	yes. in fact, there's been a fascinating study that shows that youth unemployment and crime track each other in an almost remarkable way; if you graph it out, the two lines follow each other in lockstep. and so as we've seen a bump up in youth unemployment, we are seeing more in the way of some offenses around town.
But, in general, the numbers are down, and yet this hysteria that comes about when you declare a crime emergency - I mean, my goodness, we had Fox TV sending Geraldo Rivera here to do a piece on D.C. under siege. It does tend to snowball when you start using terms like crime emergency.	but in general the numbers are down and yet this hysteria that comes about when you declare a crime emergency - i mean my goodness we had fox tv sending geraldo rivera here. to do a piece on d.c, under siege it does tend to snowball when you start using terms like crime,	But in. general the numbers are down and yet this hysteria that. comes about when you declare a crime emergency. - I mean my goodness we had, Fox TV sending Geraldo, Rivera here to do a piece on D.C under siege It, does tend to, snowball when you start using terms, like crime	but, in general, the numbers are down, and yet this hysteria that comes about when you declare a crime emergency - i mean, my goodness, we had fox tv sending geraldo rivera here to do a piece on d.c. under siege. it does tend to snowball when you start using terms like crime emergency.
And another factor that you pointed to in your piece was the - an example of what you describe as political correctness when the police chief in charge of the district in Georgetown, where it was a British tourist who had his throat slashed - his - the woman he was with was also assaulted - and the chief of police in t...	and another, factor that you pointed to in your piece was, the - an, example of. what you, describe as, political correctness when, the police chief in charge of the district in georgetown. where it was a british tourist who, had his throat slashed - his - the woman he was with was also assaulted - and the chief of pol...	And another factor that you pointed to in your piece was the - an example of what you describe as political correctness when the. police chief in; charge of the; district in Georgetown where it was a British tourist who had his. throat slashed - his - the woman. he was with was also assaulted, - and the chief. of, poli...	and another factor that you pointed to in your piece was the - an example of what you describe as political correctness when the police chief in charge of the district in georgetown, where it was a british tourist who had his throat slashed - his - the woman he was with was also assaulted - and the chief of police in t...
Well, yes. The local commander said in a meeting with neighborhood residents that residents should really be the eyes and ears of the police and should watch out for people who look suspicious, and then he went on to say that it's unusual to see blacks in Georgetown.	well, yes the local commander said in a meeting with neighborhood residents that residents should really be the eyes and ears of the police. and should. watch out for people who look suspicious. and then he went on to say that it's unusual. to see blacks. in	Well yes The local commander said in a meeting with neighborhood residents that residents should really be. the eyes and ears of the police and should watch out for people who look suspicious and then he went on to say that it's unusual to see blacks in	well, yes. the local commander said in a meeting with neighborhood residents that residents should really be the eyes and ears of the police and should watch out for people who look suspicious, and then he went on to say that it's unusual to see blacks in georgetown.
Well, that raised quite a storm. First of all, it's not true. Most of the stores in Georgetown really wouldn't even be able to survive without their black clientele. But beyond that, it raised all sorts of hackles about racial profiling.	well that raised quite a storm first of all it's not true most of the stores in. georgetown really wouldn't even be able to survive without their black clientele but beyond that it raised. all sorts of hackles about racial.	Well that raised quite a. storm First, of, all it's not true Most of the stores in Georgetown, really wouldn't even be, able to, survive without their black clientele But beyond that it raised all sorts of hackles about racial	well, that raised quite a storm. first of all, it's not true. most of the stores in georgetown really wouldn't even be able to survive without their black clientele. but beyond that, it raised all sorts of hackles about racial profiling.
And that commander, as it turned out, was a guy who's deeply committed to racial harmony in the city, lives in a black part of town, sends his kids to an almost all-black school, and so on, and so he has now been reinstated.	and that commander; as it turned out was a guy who's; deeply committed to, racial harmony in the city lives in a black part of town sends his kids to an almost all-black, school and so on. and; so he has now been	And that commander as it, turned out was a guy who's deeply committed to racial harmony in, the city lives in. a black part of town sends his kids to. an almost all-black school and so on. and so he has now been	and that commander, as it turned out, was a guy who's deeply committed to racial harmony in the city, lives in a black part of town, sends his kids to an almost all-black school, and so on, and so he has now been reinstated.
But at every step of the way, we seem to be exacerbating these race and class divisions rather than trying to work to bring crime down in all neighborhoods and thereby perhaps move beyond some of those issues.	but at every step of the way we seem to be; exacerbating these race and class divisions rather than trying. to work to, bring crime down in all neighborhoods. and thereby perhaps move beyond some of those.	But at every step. of the way we. seem to, be exacerbating these race and class divisions rather than, trying. to work to bring, crime down in all neighborhoods and thereby perhaps move beyond some of those	but at every step of the way, we seem to be exacerbating these race and class divisions rather than trying to work to bring crime down in all neighborhoods and thereby perhaps move beyond some of those issues.
And you suggest, in citing some resentment in neighborhoods where crime has never declined or at least where it continues to be a major problem, a couple of incidents in the white part of town and suddenly it's a major crisis.	and, you suggest in citing some resentment in neighborhoods where crime has never declined or at, least where it continues. to be a, major problem a couple of incidents, in the white part of town; and suddenly it's a major	And you suggest; in citing some resentment in neighborhoods where crime has never declined or at least where it continues to be a major problem a couple of incidents in, the white part of town and suddenly it's a major	and you suggest, in citing some resentment in neighborhoods where crime has never declined or at least where it continues to be a major problem, a couple of incidents in the white part of town and suddenly it's a major crisis.
And that sends just entirely the wrong message when in fact there are many neighborhoods in Washington, in poorer parts of town, where people go to bed every night listening to gunfire, wondering if their kids will make it through the night, where there are regularly horrific incidents in which bullets pierce windows o...	and, that sends, just entirely the wrong message when in fact there are many neighborhoods in washington in poorer. parts, of town where people go to bed every night listening to gunfire wondering. if, their kids will make it, through the night where there are regularly, horrific incidents in. which bullets pierce wind...	And that sends, just entirely the wrong message, when in fact there are many neighborhoods in Washington in poorer parts of town where. people go to bed every night listening to gunfire wondering if their kids will make it through the night where; there are regularly horrific incidents in which bullets pierce windows o...	and that sends just entirely the wrong message when in fact there are many neighborhoods in washington, in poorer parts of town, where people go to bed every night listening to gunfire, wondering if their kids will make it through the night, where there are regularly horrific incidents in which bullets pierce windows o...
So there are parts of town where murder is something you'd live with on a daily basis. For this kind of hysteria to happen around one incident in a wealthy part of town is really quite disturbing.	so there are parts of town where murder is something you'd live with on a daily basis for this kind, of, hysteria to happen around one incident in a wealthy part of town is really quite	So there are parts of town where murder is something you'd live with on a daily basis For, this kind of hysteria to. happen, around one incident in a wealthy part of town is. really quite	so there are parts of town where murder is something you'd live with on a daily basis. for this kind of hysteria to happen around one incident in a wealthy part of town is really quite disturbing.
Marc Fisher, thanks very much.	marc fisher thanks very	Marc Fisher thanks very	marc fisher, thanks very much.
Good to be with you, Neal.	good to. be with you	Good to. be with you	good to be with you, neal.
Marc Fisher, metro columnist for The Washington Post. He joined us from the studios at that newspaper here in Washington, D.C.	marc fisher metro columnist, for the washington post he joined us from the studios at that newspaper here in washington	Marc Fisher. metro columnist for The Washington Post He joined us from the studios at that newspaper here in Washington	marc fisher, metro columnist for the washington post. he joined us from the studios at that newspaper here in washington, d.c.
Let's look a little more closely at the numbers. James Alan Fox is a fellow at the Bureau of Statistics as well as a professor of criminal justice at Northeastern University and a columnist for The Boston Herald. He joins us now from the studios of the Christian Science Monitor in Boston. Nice of you join us today.	let's look a little more, closely at the numbers james, alan fox is a fellow at the, bureau of statistics as well as a professor of criminal justice at northeastern university and a columnist for the boston herald he joins us now from the studios. of the christian science monitor in boston nice, of you join us,	Let's look a little, more closely at the numbers James Alan Fox is a fellow at the Bureau, of, Statistics as well as a professor of criminal justice at Northeastern University, and, a columnist for The Boston Herald He joins us now from the studios, of the Christian Science Monitor in Boston, Nice of you join us	let's look a little more closely at the numbers. james alan fox is a fellow at the bureau of statistics as well as a professor of criminal justice at northeastern university and a columnist for the boston herald. he joins us now from the studios of the christian science monitor in boston. nice of you join us today.
Thank you. Good afternoon.	thank you good	Thank you Good	thank you. good afternoon.
Sad.			sad.
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According to these statistics, there's been a slight up tick in violent crimes, not everywhere, but in cities in like Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Kansas City, and where you live, in Boston.	according to these statistics, there's been. a slight, up tick in violent crimes not, everywhere but in cities in like milwaukee philadelphia kansas city and where you live in	According to these. statistics there's been a, slight up tick; in violent crimes not everywhere but in, cities in like Milwaukee Philadelphia Kansas City and where you live in	according to these statistics, there's been a slight up tick in violent crimes, not everywhere, but in cities in like milwaukee, philadelphia, kansas city, and where you live, in boston.
Mm-hmm.			mm-hmm.
Is this significant?	is this	Is this	is this significant?
Well, part of the reason we're seeing an increase is because we saw seven years of decrease. And were it not for the great 1990s crime drop when homicide, for example, declined by 50 percent in this country, we would not be wringing our hands about a four to five percent increase nationally and an up-tick in many citie...	well part of the, reason we're seeing an increase is because we saw seven, years of decrease. and were it not for the great 1990s crime drop when homicide for example declined by 50 percent in this country we would not be wringing our hands. about a four to five percent increase nationally, and an up-tick in many citie...	Well part of the reason we're seeing an increase is because we saw seven years of, decrease. And were. it not for the great, 1990s crime drop when, homicide for example declined by 50 percent. in this country we would; not be. wringing, our hands about. a four to five percent increase nationally; and an up-tick in. man...	well, part of the reason we're seeing an increase is because we saw seven years of decrease. and were it not for the great 1990s crime drop when homicide, for example, declined by 50 percent in this country, we would not be wringing our hands about a four to five percent increase nationally and an up-tick in many citie...
In fact, if you look at the cities that have the biggest jump-ups in a single year, most of the time they have a falling down in the crime rate the following year. In fact, I did an analysis where I looked over the past 25 years, and when a city experiences a 20 percent jump in murder, which tends to get people very ex...	in fact if, you look at the cities that have the biggest; jump-ups in a single year most of. the time they have, a, falling down in the crime rate the following year in fact i did an analysis where i looked over the past 25 years and when a. city experiences, a 20 percent jump in murder which tends to get people very	In fact if you look at the cities that, have the, biggest jump-ups, in a single year most of the time they have a falling down. in the crime rate the following year In fact I did an analysis where I looked over the past 25 years and when a city experiences a 20 percent jump in, murder which tends to get people very	in fact, if you look at the cities that have the biggest jump-ups in a single year, most of the time they have a falling down in the crime rate the following year. in fact, i did an analysis where i looked over the past 25 years, and when a city experiences a 20 percent jump in murder, which tends to get people very ex...
Mm-hmm.			mm-hmm.
...there's two to one odds that the murder rate will go down the following year. So we tend to get very excited in the short-term by very short-term trends, and one year change does not a trend make. We tend to be very myopic, look just at this year versus last year and get carried away like Chicken Little did about a ...	...there's two to one odds that the murder rate will go down the following year so we tend to get very excited in the short-term. by very short-term trends and one year change does not a trend make we tend to be very myopic look just at this year versus last year and get carried away like chicken little did about a sud...	...there's two, to one odds that the murder rate will go down the following year So we tend, to get very excited in the short-term by very short-term trends and one year change does, not a trend make We tend to be. very myopic look just at this year versus last year and get carried away like Chicken, Little did about a...	...there's two to one odds that the murder rate will go down the following year. so we tend to get very excited in the short-term by very short-term trends, and one year change does not a trend make. we tend to be very myopic, look just at this year versus last year and get carried away like chicken little did about a ...
As you look at these statistics, in some cases, we're talking about very small numbers, so an increase from eight to 12 looks dramatic if you put it in percentage terms.	as you look at these statistics in some cases we're talking about very small numbers so an increase from. eight to 12 looks dramatic; if you put, it in percentage	As you look at these statistics in some cases we're talking about very; small numbers so an increase from eight to 12 looks dramatic if you, put it in percentage	as you look at these statistics, in some cases, we're talking about very small numbers, so an increase from eight to 12 looks dramatic if you put it in percentage terms.
Yeah, but we're not really focusing on the cities that have such small population that eight to 12 will be noteworthy. We're also talking about cities like Philadelphia and Boston where the numbers are appreciably larger.	yeah but we're, not really. focusing on the cities that have such small population that eight to 12 will be noteworthy we're also talking about cities like philadelphia and boston where the, numbers are appreciably	Yeah but we're not really focusing on the cities that have, such small population that eight to 12 will be noteworthy We're also talking about cities like Philadelphia and Boston where the numbers are, appreciably	yeah, but we're not really focusing on the cities that have such small population that eight to 12 will be noteworthy. we're also talking about cities like philadelphia and boston where the numbers are appreciably larger.
I mean, my city, Boston, it's frequently pointed out that in 2005, we had our largest number of homicides in 10 years. Well, part of that is because we had a very good 10 years, and we're a victim of our own success. The 75 homicides that the city of Boston had last year pales in comparison to the 152 we had in 1990.	i mean my city boston it's frequently pointed. out that in 2005, we had; our largest number of; homicides in 10 years well part. of that is because we had a very, good 10 years and we're a victim of our own success; the 75 homicides that the city of boston had last year pales in comparison to the 152 we had in	I mean my city Boston it's frequently. pointed out, that in 2005, we had our largest number of homicides in 10 years Well part, of that is. because we had a very good 10 years and we're a victim. of our own success The 75 homicides, that the city of Boston had last year pales in comparison to the 152 we had in	i mean, my city, boston, it's frequently pointed out that in 2005, we had our largest number of homicides in 10 years. well, part of that is because we had a very good 10 years, and we're a victim of our own success. the 75 homicides that the city of boston had last year pales in comparison to the 152 we had in 1990.
And I don't want to say this is not worthy of concern. It is. There are certainly many issues going on right now, with budget cuts in programs for youth and lack of police resources, but it's not time - it's time to get concerned and get back to work at crime fighting, but it's not time to be alarmed.	and i, don't want to say this is not worthy of concern it is there are certainly many issues going on right. now with budget cuts in programs for youth and lack; of police resources but it's not; time - it's time to get concerned and get back. to work at crime fighting but it's not, time to be	And, I don't want to say this is not worthy of concern It is There are certainly many issues. going on right now with budget cuts in programs for youth and lack of police resources but it's not time - it's; time to get concerned and get back to work at crime fighting but, it's, not time to be	and i don't want to say this is not worthy of concern. it is. there are certainly many issues going on right now, with budget cuts in programs for youth and lack of police resources, but it's not time - it's time to get concerned and get back to work at crime fighting, but it's not time to be alarmed.
You know, referring to this Chicken Little analogy - you know, the old fable where Chicken Little got carried away by a twig - of course, Chicken Little very easily convinced Henny Penny and Turkey Lurkey and all his - all her friends that indeed the sky was falling, and that's sort of what happens when the media whips...	you know referring. to this chicken little analogy. - you, know the old fable where, chicken little got carried away by a twig - of course chicken little very, easily convinced henny penny and turkey lurkey and all his - all her friends that indeed the sky was falling. and that's sort; of what happens when the media wh...	You know referring to this Chicken Little analogy - you know the old fable where Chicken Little got carried away by a twig - of course Chicken Little very easily convinced Henny Penny and Turkey Lurkey and all his - all her friends that indeed the sky was falling and that's sort of what happens when the media. whips up...	you know, referring to this chicken little analogy - you know, the old fable where chicken little got carried away by a twig - of course, chicken little very easily convinced henny penny and turkey lurkey and all his - all her friends that indeed the sky was falling, and that's sort of what happens when the media whips...
And so, I guess, the short answer is here, yes, crime is up, and we need to do something about it because there's reasons why it could continue to rise. So it should be a very loud wakeup call to go back to doing the very hard work of crime fighting and crime prevention rather than just going willy-nilly and implementi...	and so i. guess the short answer is here yes crime is up and we need to do something about it because there's reasons why. it could continue to rise so it should be a very; loud wakeup call, to go back, to doing the very hard work of crime fighting and. crime prevention rather than just going willy-nilly and implementi...	And so I guess the short answer is here yes crime is up and we, need to do something, about it because, there's reasons why it could continue to rise So it should be, a very loud wakeup call to go back to doing the very hard. work of crime fighting and crime prevention rather than just going willy-nilly and implementin...	and so, i guess, the short answer is here, yes, crime is up, and we need to do something about it because there's reasons why it could continue to rise. so it should be a very loud wakeup call to go back to doing the very hard work of crime fighting and crime prevention rather than just going willy-nilly and implementi...
800-989-8255 if you'd like to join us, 800-989-TALK. E-mail talk@npr.org. Hugh(ph) is calling us from Oakland.	800-989-8255 if you'd like to, join. us 800-989-talk e-mail talk@npr.org hugh(ph) is calling us from	800-989-8255 if you'd like to; join, us. 800-989-TALK E-mail talk@npr.org Hugh(ph) is calling us from	800-989-8255 if you'd like to join us, 800-989-talk. e-mail talk@npr.org. hugh(ph) is calling us from oakland.
Yes, hi. I don't know whether the statistics show anything about reasons for crime, but here in Oakland, where the crime has gone up, the other day on one of the local news programs, they were interviewing the parents of both a victim here in Oakland as well as one in nearby Richmond where crime is also going up.	yes hi i don't know whether the statistics show anything about. reasons for crime. but here in oakland where the crime has gone up the other day on one of the local news programs they were interviewing the parents of both a, victim here in oakland as well, as one in nearby richmond where crime is also, going	Yes hi I don't know whether the. statistics show anything about reasons for crime but here, in Oakland. where the crime has gone up the other day on one. of the local news programs they were interviewing the parents of both a victim here, in Oakland. as, well as one in nearby Richmond, where crime is also going	yes, hi. i don't know whether the statistics show anything about reasons for crime, but here in oakland, where the crime has gone up, the other day on one of the local news programs, they were interviewing the parents of both a victim here in oakland as well as one in nearby richmond where crime is also going up.
And both parents of the victims mentioned that there needs to be more jobs for these inner city - some of these inner city kids. And they thought that - the parents themselves thought that was one of the reasons, and I wanted to know what your statistics show about that.	and both. parents, of the victims mentioned that there needs. to be more jobs for these inner city, - some of these inner; city kids and they thought that - the parents themselves thought that was. one; of the reasons and; i wanted to know what your statistics show about	And both parents of the victims mentioned, that there needs to be, more jobs for these inner; city - some. of, these inner city kids And they thought that - the parents themselves thought that was one; of the reasons and I wanted to know what your statistics show about	and both parents of the victims mentioned that there needs to be more jobs for these inner city - some of these inner city kids. and they thought that - the parents themselves thought that was one of the reasons, and i wanted to know what your statistics show about that.
Well, in general, unemployment and crime rates do not track very well, because if you're really geared towards a life of crime and making a lot of money through criminal activity, you're hardly going to be dissuaded by a job flipping burgers.	well in general unemployment and crime, rates do not track very well because if you're, really geared towards a life of crime, and making a; lot of money through, criminal activity you're hardly going. to be dissuaded by. a job flipping	Well in general unemployment and crime rates do not track. very well because if you're really geared towards a life of crime. and making. a lot. of money through criminal activity you're hardly going to be dissuaded by a job flipping	well, in general, unemployment and crime rates do not track very well, because if you're really geared towards a life of crime and making a lot of money through criminal activity, you're hardly going to be dissuaded by a job flipping burgers.
But what is true about kids and jobs is that it just keeps them busy. And it doesn't have to be a summer job, for example, or an after-to-school job, it can also be an after-school program or a sports program, just something to keep kids off the streets and engaged in quality activity.	but what is true about kids and jobs is that it just keeps. them busy and it doesn't have to be a summer job, for example or an after-to-school job it. can also be an after-school. program or a, sports program just something to keep kids off; the streets, and engaged in quality	But what is true about kids and jobs is that it just keeps them busy And, it doesn't have to. be a summer job for example or an after-to-school job it can also be an after-school program or a sports program just something to keep kids off the streets and engaged in, quality	but what is true about kids and jobs is that it just keeps them busy. and it doesn't have to be a summer job, for example, or an after-to-school job, it can also be an after-school program or a sports program, just something to keep kids off the streets and engaged in quality activity.
Hugh, thanks very much for the call. We appreciate it. We're going to take more of your calls on this issue when we come back from a break. Again, the number is 800-989-8255. The e-mail address: talk@npr.org. Is crime up where you live, and if so, what's wrong? If it's down, what's working?	hugh thanks, very much for the call we appreciate. it we're going to take more of your calls on this issue when we come back from, a break again. the number is, 800-989-8255. the e-mail address: talk@npr.org is crime up where you live and. if so what's wrong? if it's down what's.	Hugh thanks very much for the call We appreciate it We're going to. take more of your calls on, this issue when we come back from a break Again the number is 800-989-8255. The; e-mail address: talk@npr.org Is crime up where you live and if so what's wrong? If it's down what's	hugh, thanks very much for the call. we appreciate it. we're going to take more of your calls on this issue when we come back from a break. again, the number is 800-989-8255. the e-mail address: talk@npr.org. is crime up where you live, and if so, what's wrong? if it's down, what's working?
I'm Neal Conan. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.	i'm neal conan you're listening to, talk of the nation from npr	I'm, Neal Conan You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR	i'm neal conan. you're listening to talk of the nation from npr news.
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