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It was, it was legit. | agent: Wow. Okay.
customer: I don't know.
agent: So you, so yeah, so you were like... I mean, this was- | 1,041.084 | 1,041.914 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Yeah, it was legit, yeah, except for one problem, which is that the entire bubble, the dot-com bubble- | customer: I don't know.
agent: So you, so yeah, so you were like... I mean, this was-
customer: It was, it was legit. | 1,041.914 | 1,048.204 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
It blew up | agent: So you, so yeah, so you were like... I mean, this was-
customer: It was, it was legit.
agent: Yeah, it was legit, yeah, except for one problem, which is that the entire bubble, the dot-com bubble- | 1,048.204 | 1,049.034 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
... bursts, right, 2001. | customer: It was, it was legit.
agent: Yeah, it was legit, yeah, except for one problem, which is that the entire bubble, the dot-com bubble-
customer: It blew up | 1,049.034 | 1,050.364 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Oh, yes. | agent: Yeah, it was legit, yeah, except for one problem, which is that the entire bubble, the dot-com bubble-
customer: It blew up
agent: ... bursts, right, 2001. | 1,050.364 | 1,050.374 | customer | eng | tr | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
And, uh, and some people like Mark Cuban got really lucky 'cause they sold their businesses [laughs] at the right time. Um, right, and others, uh, others didn't. Um, you, you are now in a situation where, and, and financing dries up, right? Like, we, we've had these stories on the show, you know, and so I have to imagi... | customer: It blew up
agent: ... bursts, right, 2001.
customer: Oh, yes. | 1,050.374 | 1,076.464 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Yes. We were in trouble, and it was really frustrating because it forced us to sell the company prematurely and not in a particularly successful way. When the dot-com market blew up, you know, I remember our investors saying, "We're not gonna fund anymore." But unfortunately for us, and this is a lesson learned, they w... | agent: ... bursts, right, 2001.
customer: Oh, yes.
agent: And, uh, and some people like Mark Cuban got really lucky 'cause they sold their businesses [laughs] at the right time. Um, right, and others, uh, others didn't. Um, you, you are now in a situation where, and, and financing dries up, right? Like, we, we've had t... | 1,076.464 | 1,097.504 | customer | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Yeah | customer: Oh, yes.
agent: And, uh, and some people like Mark Cuban got really lucky 'cause they sold their businesses [laughs] at the right time. Um, right, and others, uh, others didn't. Um, you, you are now in a situation where, and, and financing dries up, right? Like, we, we've had these stories on the show, you kn... | 1,097.504 | 1,097.584 | agent | eng | tr | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
... where they're like, "Let's go, let's go, let's go. Growth at all costs, growth at all costs." And that's all good when things are going well, but if you're doing growth at all costs and the tides turn, whether that's of your doing or not- And you're out over your skis, you're screwed. And that's basically what happ... | agent: And, uh, and some people like Mark Cuban got really lucky 'cause they sold their businesses [laughs] at the right time. Um, right, and others, uh, others didn't. Um, you, you are now in a situation where, and, and financing dries up, right? Like, we, we've had these stories on the show, you know, and so I have t... | 1,097.584 | 1,122 | customer | eng | en | unknown | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
All right. Forced into making a sale, and you find a, what probably seemed like a really interesting buyer- | customer: Yes. We were in trouble, and it was really frustrating because it forced us to sell the company prematurely and not in a particularly successful way. When the dot-com market blew up, you know, I remember our investors saying, "We're not gonna fund anymore." But unfortunately for us, and this is a lesson learn... | 1,123.46 | 1,131.73 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Mm-hmm | agent: Yeah
customer: ... where they're like, "Let's go, let's go, let's go. Growth at all costs, growth at all costs." And that's all good when things are going well, but if you're doing growth at all costs and the tides turn, whether that's of your doing or not- And you're out over your skis, you're screwed. And that... | 1,131.73 | 1,131.9 | customer | eng | de | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
... which, who was? | customer: ... where they're like, "Let's go, let's go, let's go. Growth at all costs, growth at all costs." And that's all good when things are going well, but if you're doing growth at all costs and the tides turn, whether that's of your doing or not- And you're out over your skis, you're screwed. And that's basically... | 1,131.9 | 1,133.299 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Martha Stewart. | agent: All right. Forced into making a sale, and you find a, what probably seemed like a really interesting buyer-
customer: Mm-hmm
agent: ... which, who was? | 1,133.3 | 1,134.1 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Martha Stewart. I mean, I mean, that c- a, I'm thinking you can't get better than that, right? I mean, Martha Stewart. And, and they wanted to buy the b- buy the business and, and sort of fold it into the Martha Stewart empire. | customer: Mm-hmm
agent: ... which, who was?
customer: Martha Stewart. | 1,134.1 | 1,147.22 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Correct. A woman named Darcy Miller who ran Martha Stewart Weddings had introduced Martha to the concept and brought Martha by our showroom. | agent: ... which, who was?
customer: Martha Stewart.
agent: Martha Stewart. I mean, I mean, that c- a, I'm thinking you can't get better than that, right? I mean, Martha Stewart. And, and they wanted to buy the b- buy the business and, and sort of fold it into the Martha Stewart empire. | 1,147.22 | 1,155.96 | customer | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Wow. That must've been exciting. | customer: Martha Stewart.
agent: Martha Stewart. I mean, I mean, that c- a, I'm thinking you can't get better than that, right? I mean, Martha Stewart. And, and they wanted to buy the b- buy the business and, and sort of fold it into the Martha Stewart empire.
customer: Correct. A woman named Darcy Miller who ran Marth... | 1,155.96 | 1,157.76 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
I mean, it, it... Look, it's flattering. I'm a, a relatively young entrepreneur, and I've got Martha Stewart v- you know, talking about my business and courting me. And I think at the time, Martha Stewart had a really successful wedding magazine called Martha Stewart Weddings, and they were incredibly good at creating ... | agent: Martha Stewart. I mean, I mean, that c- a, I'm thinking you can't get better than that, right? I mean, Martha Stewart. And, and they wanted to buy the b- buy the business and, and sort of fold it into the Martha Stewart empire.
customer: Correct. A woman named Darcy Miller who ran Martha Stewart Weddings had int... | 1,157.76 | 1,183.83 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
It's a brilliant, it's a brilliant, uh... And they probably got it for a good price because of, of everything going on. | customer: Correct. A woman named Darcy Miller who ran Martha Stewart Weddings had introduced Martha to the concept and brought Martha by our showroom.
agent: Wow. That must've been exciting.
customer: I mean, it, it... Look, it's flattering. I'm a, a relatively young entrepreneur, and I've got Martha Stewart v- you kno... | 1,183.83 | 1,188.52 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Oh, oh, they did. | agent: Wow. That must've been exciting.
customer: I mean, it, it... Look, it's flattering. I'm a, a relatively young entrepreneur, and I've got Martha Stewart v- you know, talking about my business and courting me. And I think at the time, Martha Stewart had a really successful wedding magazine called Martha Stewart We... | 1,188.52 | 1,189.92 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
[laughs] | customer: I mean, it, it... Look, it's flattering. I'm a, a relatively young entrepreneur, and I've got Martha Stewart v- you know, talking about my business and courting me. And I think at the time, Martha Stewart had a really successful wedding magazine called Martha Stewart Weddings, and they were incredibly good at... | 1,189.92 | 1,190.57 | agent | eng | lv | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
And I was brought in under contract to fold this business into Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia, which marked their very first acquisition. | agent: It's a brilliant, it's a brilliant, uh... And they probably got it for a good price because of, of everything going on.
customer: Oh, oh, they did.
agent: [laughs] | 1,190.57 | 1,198.96 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
And now you are working for Martha Stewart. And, and, uh, I mean, what was that like? I mean, I, I've met Martha Stewart before. I have a lot of respect for her. I've seen the documentary on her. She's obviously a hard-charging... I mean, she's a, she's an incredible entrepreneur. Um, what, what was it like working for... | customer: Oh, oh, they did.
agent: [laughs]
customer: And I was brought in under contract to fold this business into Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia, which marked their very first acquisition. | 1,199.02 | 1,219.26 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Well, it was a different time. You know, her house that she shows in the documentary is actually, I think, where I might've arguably had my first kiss. My friend's family had that property, and it was, like, a kind of a, not dilapidated, but it was kind of an old farm, and she turned it into this extraordinary piece of... | agent: [laughs]
customer: And I was brought in under contract to fold this business into Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia, which marked their very first acquisition.
agent: And now you are working for Martha Stewart. And, and, uh, I mean, what was that like? I mean, I, I've met Martha Stewart before. I have a lot of res... | 1,219.96 | 1,241.14 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Hmm. | customer: And I was brought in under contract to fold this business into Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia, which marked their very first acquisition.
agent: And now you are working for Martha Stewart. And, and, uh, I mean, what was that like? I mean, I, I've met Martha Stewart before. I have a lot of respect for her. I'... | 1,241.14 | 1,241.9 | agent | eng | sv | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
I will say this. Well, first of all, I worked directly for Martha, and I also worked directly for Sharon Patrick, who was the chief operating officer at the time. Martha and Sharon fought a lot. They had differences of opinion on just about everything. So that was the first thing. And I think dual reporting of equal me... | agent: And now you are working for Martha Stewart. And, and, uh, I mean, what was that like? I mean, I, I've met Martha Stewart before. I have a lot of respect for her. I've seen the documentary on her. She's obviously a hard-charging... I mean, she's a, she's an incredible entrepreneur. Um, what, what was it like work... | 1,241.9 | 1,305.22 | customer | eng | en | unknown | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Because the culture was just different. People yelled. I was yelled at. | customer: Well, it was a different time. You know, her house that she shows in the documentary is actually, I think, where I might've arguably had my first kiss. My friend's family had that property, and it was, like, a kind of a, not dilapidated, but it was kind of an old farm, and she turned it into this extraordinar... | 1,305.22 | 1,308.92 | agent | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
All the time. | agent: Hmm.
customer: I will say this. Well, first of all, I worked directly for Martha, and I also worked directly for Sharon Patrick, who was the chief operating officer at the time. Martha and Sharon fought a lot. They had differences of opinion on just about everything. So that was the first thing. And I think dual... | 1,308.92 | 1,309.28 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
I, when I was a young reporter, I got yelled at, and it was how everybody operated. It was like what the people doing that had done to them, and excellence was expected. Uh, people were harsh. And, and I have to say, in defense of that, I don't think I would've, have become as good of a w- a journalist, which I used to... | customer: I will say this. Well, first of all, I worked directly for Martha, and I also worked directly for Sharon Patrick, who was the chief operating officer at the time. Martha and Sharon fought a lot. They had differences of opinion on just about everything. So that was the first thing. And I think dual reporting o... | 1,309.28 | 1,335.4 | agent | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Yes. It's such a different world today. So with all that said, yes, Martha was very challenging to work for because she is a perfectionist, and she led, you know, a sort of, I would say, a fear-based organization. People worshiped her, and I think what, what, what I learned from her was the attention to detail matters,... | agent: Because the culture was just different. People yelled. I was yelled at.
customer: All the time.
agent: I, when I was a young reporter, I got yelled at, and it was how everybody operated. It was like what the people doing that had done to them, and excellence was expected. Uh, people were harsh. And, and I have t... | 1,335.4 | 1,359.899 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Hmm | customer: All the time.
agent: I, when I was a young reporter, I got yelled at, and it was how everybody operated. It was like what the people doing that had done to them, and excellence was expected. Uh, people were harsh. And, and I have to say, in defense of that, I don't think I would've, have become as good of a w... | 1,359.9 | 1,360.12 | agent | eng | da | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
... the combination of creativity and business is, is something that, that works. What I also learned from her, though, was that I didn't wanna be that type of leader, and that I... And not that I haven't had my moments, 'cause there are people who've worked for me that would s- sure say I'm a pain in, pain in the ass,... | agent: I, when I was a young reporter, I got yelled at, and it was how everybody operated. It was like what the people doing that had done to them, and excellence was expected. Uh, people were harsh. And, and I have to say, in defense of that, I don't think I would've, have become as good of a w- a journalist, which I ... | 1,360.12 | 1,395.77 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
[laughs] | customer: Yes. It's such a different world today. So with all that said, yes, Martha was very challenging to work for because she is a perfectionist, and she led, you know, a sort of, I would say, a fear-based organization. People worshiped her, and I think what, what, what I learned from her was the attention to detai... | 1,395.77 | 1,395.77 | agent | eng | lv | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
... "Who chose that ugly shade of blue on that plate yesterday?" I would say- | agent: Hmm
customer: ... the combination of creativity and business is, is something that, that works. What I also learned from her, though, was that I didn't wanna be that type of leader, and that I... And not that I haven't had my moments, 'cause there are people who've worked for me that would s- sure say I'm a pain... | 1,395.77 | 1,400.88 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
[laughs] | customer: ... the combination of creativity and business is, is something that, that works. What I also learned from her, though, was that I didn't wanna be that type of leader, and that I... And not that I haven't had my moments, 'cause there are people who've worked for me that would s- sure say I'm a pain in, pain i... | 1,400.88 | 1,400.89 | agent | eng | lv | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
... "You did at the 2:00 meeting when we were with so-and-so." And she would just look at me. You know, I was a little, probably cocky pain in her ass, too. | agent: [laughs]
customer: ... "Who chose that ugly shade of blue on that plate yesterday?" I would say-
agent: [laughs] | 1,400.89 | 1,409.56 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Yeah. You c- you created some friction there, which... And you know, hey, it's Martha's world. You were just living in it. | customer: ... "Who chose that ugly shade of blue on that plate yesterday?" I would say-
agent: [laughs]
customer: ... "You did at the 2:00 meeting when we were with so-and-so." And she would just look at me. You know, I was a little, probably cocky pain in her ass, too. | 1,409.56 | 1,414.86 | agent | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Yeah. | agent: [laughs]
customer: ... "You did at the 2:00 meeting when we were with so-and-so." And she would just look at me. You know, I was a little, probably cocky pain in her ass, too.
agent: Yeah. You c- you created some friction there, which... And you know, hey, it's Martha's world. You were just living in it. | 1,414.86 | 1,415.16 | customer | eng | id | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
All right. So you, uh, you, you end up, I think, working for Martha Stewart for about nine months. Is that right? Something like that. | customer: ... "You did at the 2:00 meeting when we were with so-and-so." And she would just look at me. You know, I was a little, probably cocky pain in her ass, too.
agent: Yeah. You c- you created some friction there, which... And you know, hey, it's Martha's world. You were just living in it.
customer: Yeah. | 1,416.22 | 1,421.7 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
I think I made it for the full year of my contract. [laughs] But, but literally to the end of my contract, which, or my required time. | agent: Yeah. You c- you created some friction there, which... And you know, hey, it's Martha's world. You were just living in it.
customer: Yeah.
agent: All right. So you, uh, you, you end up, I think, working for Martha Stewart for about nine months. Is that right? Something like that. | 1,421.7 | 1,428.72 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Got it. Okay. So, so this is the mid-2000s, um, and you've left Martha. Now I, I, I think you're y- in your early 30s aro- around that time. Uh, and, and you've had a lot of experience at this point, right? I mean, you, I mean, you have done a lot of sort of executive type of work. Uh, and I guess you eventually get hi... | customer: Yeah.
agent: All right. So you, uh, you, you end up, I think, working for Martha Stewart for about nine months. Is that right? Something like that.
customer: I think I made it for the full year of my contract. [laughs] But, but literally to the end of my contract, which, or my required time. | 1,428.72 | 1,459.82 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Mm-hmm. | agent: All right. So you, uh, you, you end up, I think, working for Martha Stewart for about nine months. Is that right? Something like that.
customer: I think I made it for the full year of my contract. [laughs] But, but literally to the end of my contract, which, or my required time.
agent: Got it. Okay. So, so this ... | 1,459.82 | 1,460.47 | customer | eng | vi | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Um, and, and I guess it was, it was owned by Tommy Hilfiger, the designer, and his wife, Susie, uh, who are, uh, kind of a, a, a fashion power couple. | customer: I think I made it for the full year of my contract. [laughs] But, but literally to the end of my contract, which, or my required time.
agent: Got it. Okay. So, so this is the mid-2000s, um, and you've left Martha. Now I, I, I think you're y- in your early 30s aro- around that time. Uh, and, and you've had a l... | 1,460.47 | 1,470.34 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Yeah. Huge honor. | agent: Got it. Okay. So, so this is the mid-2000s, um, and you've left Martha. Now I, I, I think you're y- in your early 30s aro- around that time. Uh, and, and you've had a lot of experience at this point, right? I mean, you, I mean, you have done a lot of sort of executive type of work. Uh, and I guess you eventually... | 1,470.34 | 1,471.31 | customer | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
But from what I've read, uh, this actually turned out to be another really challenging job. Um, so, so tell me the story. What, what happened? | customer: Mm-hmm.
agent: Um, and, and I guess it was, it was owned by Tommy Hilfiger, the designer, and his wife, Susie, uh, who are, uh, kind of a, a, a fashion power couple.
customer: Yeah. Huge honor. | 1,472.4 | 1,481.68 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Well, I mean, the end of the story, I'll start with that, is that I was fired by messenger in front of my team when I was the CEO. | agent: Um, and, and I guess it was, it was owned by Tommy Hilfiger, the designer, and his wife, Susie, uh, who are, uh, kind of a, a, a fashion power couple.
customer: Yeah. Huge honor.
agent: But from what I've read, uh, this actually turned out to be another really challenging job. Um, so, so tell me the story. What,... | 1,481.68 | 1,491.88 | customer | eng | en | unknown | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
How, how long after? | customer: Yeah. Huge honor.
agent: But from what I've read, uh, this actually turned out to be another really challenging job. Um, so, so tell me the story. What, what happened?
customer: Well, I mean, the end of the story, I'll start with that, is that I was fired by messenger in front of my team when I was the CEO. | 1,491.88 | 1,492.9 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
I'd say around a year, maybe a little, yeah, about a- about a year. And, and I was hired by Tommy's... So Tommy and Suzy were estranged at the time and, and on- | agent: But from what I've read, uh, this actually turned out to be another really challenging job. Um, so, so tell me the story. What, what happened?
customer: Well, I mean, the end of the story, I'll start with that, is that I was fired by messenger in front of my team when I was the CEO.
agent: How, how long after? | 1,492.9 | 1,502.69 | customer | eng | en | unknown | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Mm | customer: Well, I mean, the end of the story, I'll start with that, is that I was fired by messenger in front of my team when I was the CEO.
agent: How, how long after?
customer: I'd say around a year, maybe a little, yeah, about a- about a year. And, and I was hired by Tommy's... So Tommy and Suzy were estranged at th... | 1,502.69 | 1,502.69 | agent | eng | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | ||||||||
... the process of getting divorced. And I only bring this up to say that that's an important fact because Tommy wanted me to turn the business into a profitable business, and Suzy is a true creative and wasn't focused on the financials. And I worked with Suzy on the day-to-day, but Tommy was the ultimate owner of the ... | agent: How, how long after?
customer: I'd say around a year, maybe a little, yeah, about a- about a year. And, and I was hired by Tommy's... So Tommy and Suzy were estranged at the time and, and on-
agent: Mm | 1,502.69 | 1,563.12 | customer | eng | en | unknown | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
I mean, it sounds like the problem here is that you're hired to run the company, but actually the founder d- you know, and this happens. The founder's like- | customer: I'd say around a year, maybe a little, yeah, about a- about a year. And, and I was hired by Tommy's... So Tommy and Suzy were estranged at the time and, and on-
agent: Mm
customer: ... the process of getting divorced. And I only bring this up to say that that's an important fact because Tommy wanted me to tur... | 1,563.12 | 1,572.279 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
It does | agent: Mm
customer: ... the process of getting divorced. And I only bring this up to say that that's an important fact because Tommy wanted me to turn the business into a profitable business, and Suzy is a true creative and wasn't focused on the financials. And I worked with Suzy on the day-to-day, but Tommy was the ul... | 1,572.28 | 1,572.57 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
... "Well, it's, I, I don't have to ask anybody for permission. It's my company." That creates a problem because if your job as a CEO is to, you know, tighten things up and make sure it's gonna be profitable and, you know, your, the founder still sees themself as the boss, that's, that's hard. It's hard to run the busi... | customer: ... the process of getting divorced. And I only bring this up to say that that's an important fact because Tommy wanted me to turn the business into a profitable business, and Suzy is a true creative and wasn't focused on the financials. And I worked with Suzy on the day-to-day, but Tommy was the ultimate own... | 1,572.57 | 1,590.87 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
I think that with Suzy, you know, she was all about the way that she wanted things to look and the types of clothing she wanted to, to buy. And so it was challenging 'cause, because I would say things like, "Well, those little dresses that you're purchasing are absolutely beautiful, but they're probably only gonna be w... | agent: I mean, it sounds like the problem here is that you're hired to run the company, but actually the founder d- you know, and this happens. The founder's like-
customer: It does
agent: ... "Well, it's, I, I don't have to ask anybody for permission. It's my company." That creates a problem because if your job as a C... | 1,590.87 | 1,621.1 | customer | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Mm. | customer: It does
agent: ... "Well, it's, I, I don't have to ask anybody for permission. It's my company." That creates a problem because if your job as a CEO is to, you know, tighten things up and make sure it's gonna be profitable and, you know, your, the founder still sees themself as the boss, that's, that's hard. ... | 1,621.1 | 1,621.11 | agent | eng | pt | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
And J.Crew was just launching Crewcuts, and people were buying, you know, more affordable clothing. And so it was hard to balance that with her. | agent: ... "Well, it's, I, I don't have to ask anybody for permission. It's my company." That creates a problem because if your job as a CEO is to, you know, tighten things up and make sure it's gonna be profitable and, you know, your, the founder still sees themself as the boss, that's, that's hard. It's hard to run t... | 1,621.11 | 1,628.96 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Yeah. All right. So you're there, and one day you get some, you get some bad news. What, what happens? | customer: I think that with Suzy, you know, she was all about the way that she wanted things to look and the types of clothing she wanted to, to buy. And so it was challenging 'cause, because I would say things like, "Well, those little dresses that you're purchasing are absolutely beautiful, but they're probably only ... | 1,628.96 | 1,637.88 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
[laughs] I'm literally in the middle of a meeting, and a messenger comes to the door and asks me if I'm Gregg Renfrew. And I say I am, and he hands me, he serves me papers, I guess like how people get served papers if they're getting divorced. And it basically says, "You've been fired, and you are to leave the premises... | agent: Mm.
customer: And J.Crew was just launching Crewcuts, and people were buying, you know, more affordable clothing. And so it was hard to balance that with her.
agent: Yeah. All right. So you're there, and one day you get some, you get some bad news. What, what happens? | 1,637.88 | 1,656.08 | customer | eng | en | unknown | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
That's what the message said in the envelope? That's- | customer: And J.Crew was just launching Crewcuts, and people were buying, you know, more affordable clothing. And so it was hard to balance that with her.
agent: Yeah. All right. So you're there, and one day you get some, you get some bad news. What, what happens?
customer: [laughs] I'm literally in the middle of a mee... | 1,656.08 | 1,658.53 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Mm-hmm. | agent: Yeah. All right. So you're there, and one day you get some, you get some bad news. What, what happens?
customer: [laughs] I'm literally in the middle of a meeting, and a messenger comes to the door and asks me if I'm Gregg Renfrew. And I say I am, and he hands me, he serves me papers, I guess like how people get... | 1,658.53 | 1,658.9 | customer | eng | vi | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
And, and d- | customer: [laughs] I'm literally in the middle of a meeting, and a messenger comes to the door and asks me if I'm Gregg Renfrew. And I say I am, and he hands me, he serves me papers, I guess like how people get served papers if they're getting divorced. And it basically says, "You've been fired, and you are to leave th... | 1,658.9 | 1,659.289 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Mm-hmm | agent: That's what the message said in the envelope? That's-
customer: Mm-hmm.
agent: And, and d- | 1,659.289 | 1,659.47 | customer | eng | de | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
... did, were you, were you totally shocked? I mean, was it totally unexpected? | customer: Mm-hmm.
agent: And, and d-
customer: Mm-hmm | 1,659.47 | 1,665.18 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
I knew there was tension. But yes, I was shocked. I mean, uh, first of all, being fired by messenger is just... That was, that was shocking. Maybe, maybe if she had sat me down and said, "This isn't really working. We're not agreeing on things," maybe that wouldn't have come as such a surprise. But being fired by messe... | agent: And, and d-
customer: Mm-hmm
agent: ... did, were you, were you totally shocked? I mean, was it totally unexpected? | 1,665.18 | 1,684.84 | customer | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Hmm. | customer: Mm-hmm
agent: ... did, were you, were you totally shocked? I mean, was it totally unexpected?
customer: I knew there was tension. But yes, I was shocked. I mean, uh, first of all, being fired by messenger is just... That was, that was shocking. Maybe, maybe if she had sat me down and said, "This isn't really ... | 1,684.84 | 1,685.46 | agent | eng | sv | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
I think I remember walking out to telling the team that I'd been fired, and I remember walking back into my office and starting to pack up what I could bring with me. And I, I think I remember calling my friend and asking her to come pick me up and, and, like, losing it. I, I feel like she picked me up, and I was, like... | agent: ... did, were you, were you totally shocked? I mean, was it totally unexpected?
customer: I knew there was tension. But yes, I was shocked. I mean, uh, first of all, being fired by messenger is just... That was, that was shocking. Maybe, maybe if she had sat me down and said, "This isn't really working. We're no... | 1,685.46 | 1,712.28 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
When we come back in just a moment, Gregg helps a Hollywood celebrity come up with a business plan and then gets inspired to come up with her own. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This. When it comes to your health and wellbeing, the right care can change everything. That's why Cleveland C... | customer: I knew there was tension. But yes, I was shocked. I mean, uh, first of all, being fired by messenger is just... That was, that was shocking. Maybe, maybe if she had sat me down and said, "This isn't really working. We're not agreeing on things," maybe that wouldn't have come as such a surprise. But being fire... | 1,715.34 | 1,877.07 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
She was looking to have someone help her with a children's clothing company that she wanted to start. And I signed a six-month contract to consult for her in a full-time capacity to help her explore the opportunity of starting a new company. And we did that, although very quickly, and this is part of my story, when I w... | agent: Hmm.
customer: I think I remember walking out to telling the team that I'd been fired, and I remember walking back into my office and starting to pack up what I could bring with me. And I, I think I remember calling my friend and asking her to come pick me up and, and, like, losing it. I, I feel like she picked ... | 1,878.21 | 1,926.17 | customer | eng | en | us | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Yeah | customer: I think I remember walking out to telling the team that I'd been fired, and I remember walking back into my office and starting to pack up what I could bring with me. And I, I think I remember calling my friend and asking her to come pick me up and, and, like, losing it. I, I feel like she picked me up, and I... | 1,926.17 | 1,926.35 | agent | eng | tr | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
... for their health?" And, you know, Jessica and I started talking about, you know, maybe there's a different angle here. Maybe, maybe there's a way to create safer products for babies and kids, and maybe it's not about clothing so much. So the conversations that she and I are, are having during the time during which ... | agent: When we come back in just a moment, Gregg helps a Hollywood celebrity come up with a business plan and then gets inspired to come up with her own. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This. When it comes to your health and wellbeing, the right care can change everything. That's why Clev... | 1,926.35 | 1,953.81 | customer | eng | en | us | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Hmm. | customer: She was looking to have someone help her with a children's clothing company that she wanted to start. And I signed a six-month contract to consult for her in a full-time capacity to help her explore the opportunity of starting a new company. And we did that, although very quickly, and this is part of my story... | 1,953.81 | 1,953.91 | agent | eng | sv | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
And it took me a while to figure out what my next thing was gonna be. | agent: Yeah
customer: ... for their health?" And, you know, Jessica and I started talking about, you know, maybe there's a different angle here. Maybe, maybe there's a way to create safer products for babies and kids, and maybe it's not about clothing so much. So the conversations that she and I are, are having during ... | 1,953.91 | 1,958.35 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Okay. So let's, let's get into that because you're now in LA, and you're doing consulting, and you help Jessica sort of build this business plan. She goes off, and we know what happens with The Honest Company. Um, I mean, you're gonna get into cosmetics, into beauty products, but, but, but before we hear the story, w- ... | customer: ... for their health?" And, you know, Jessica and I started talking about, you know, maybe there's a different angle here. Maybe, maybe there's a way to create safer products for babies and kids, and maybe it's not about clothing so much. So the conversations that she and I are, are having during the time dur... | 1,958.35 | 1,986.07 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
I had become impassioned with the environmental health movement. And as I made changes to my life, I found that there were opportunities in the marketplace. You know, I, it was really easy to s- to switch my household cleaning products or just start washing my floors with water and vinegar. | agent: Hmm.
customer: And it took me a while to figure out what my next thing was gonna be.
agent: Okay. So let's, let's get into that because you're now in LA, and you're doing consulting, and you help Jessica sort of build this business plan. She goes off, and we know what happens with The Honest Company. Um, I mean,... | 1,987.13 | 2,002.49 | customer | eng | en | unknown | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Hmm. | customer: And it took me a while to figure out what my next thing was gonna be.
agent: Okay. So let's, let's get into that because you're now in LA, and you're doing consulting, and you help Jessica sort of build this business plan. She goes off, and we know what happens with The Honest Company. Um, I mean, you're gonn... | 2,002.49 | 2,002.51 | agent | eng | sv | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
It was easy over time to switch from plastic to glass. It was easy to take my shoes off at the door. There were solutions out there in certain aspects of my life. But when it came to skincare and color cosmetic products, at the time, there were some really great sort of all-natural types of brands, but most of them did... | agent: Okay. So let's, let's get into that because you're now in LA, and you're doing consulting, and you help Jessica sort of build this business plan. She goes off, and we know what happens with The Honest Company. Um, I mean, you're gonna get into cosmetics, into beauty products, but, but, but before we hear the sto... | 2,002.51 | 2,064.919 | customer | eng | en | us | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | She and I just started talking about what her dreams were in terms of, you know, creating safer makeup and my dreams about really taking on this, this industry | medium | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | ||||||
And so where do you start? It's 2010, and what's the first thing you do? I mean, you have run businesses, so you have a pretty good playbook. What, what was your playbook to, to get this off the ground? | customer: I had become impassioned with the environmental health movement. And as I made changes to my life, I found that there were opportunities in the marketplace. You know, I, it was really easy to s- to switch my household cleaning products or just start washing my floors with water and vinegar.
agent: Hmm.
custom... | 2,064.919 | 2,075.46 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Well, you know, it's interesting because I, I did have really lots of experience, but I had no experience in beauty. | agent: Hmm.
customer: It was easy over time to switch from plastic to glass. It was easy to take my shoes off at the door. There were solutions out there in certain aspects of my life. But when it came to skincare and color cosmetic products, at the time, there were some really great sort of all-natural types of brands... | 2,076.47 | 2,082.55 | customer | eng | en | unknown | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Yeah. | customer: It was easy over time to switch from plastic to glass. It was easy to take my shoes off at the door. There were solutions out there in certain aspects of my life. But when it came to skincare and color cosmetic products, at the time, there were some really great sort of all-natural types of brands, but most o... | 2,082.55 | 2,083.01 | agent | eng | id | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
And I wanted to bring in products that performed as well as the traditional beauty brands, and I wanted them to be void of certain chemicals of concern. So the first, uh, literally the first thing I did is I called a friend of mine who works for L'Oréal, and I said, "I know you're in the haircare business, but can you ... | agent: And so where do you start? It's 2010, and what's the first thing you do? I mean, you have run businesses, so you have a pretty good playbook. What, what was your playbook to, to get this off the ground?
customer: Well, you know, it's interesting because I, I did have really lots of experience, but I had no exper... | 2,083.01 | 2,115.65 | customer | eng | en | us | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | I called a friend of mine who works for L'Oréal, and I said, 'I know you're in the haircare business, but can you tell me a little bit about how you all do things?' | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | ||||||
And by this point, right, like, if you wanted to start a makeup brand, um, you could. I mean, there are, there are co-manufacturers all over the US and Switzerland and Japan that make high-end beauty products. Was it just a matter of finding a place and saying, "These, this is what I wanna make," or was it more, was it... | customer: Well, you know, it's interesting because I, I did have really lots of experience, but I had no experience in beauty.
agent: Yeah.
customer: And I wanted to bring in products that performed as well as the traditional beauty brands, and I wanted them to be void of certain chemicals of concern. So the first, uh,... | 2,115.65 | 2,134.63 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Well, it was way more challenging because as one of my partners later on used to say, for us to make the makeup or, or skincare products that I wanted would be the same as going to the fanciest restaurant in town, having the most decadent chocolate cake, and saying, "I want that same chocolate cake, except you can't us... | agent: Yeah.
customer: And I wanted to bring in products that performed as well as the traditional beauty brands, and I wanted them to be void of certain chemicals of concern. So the first, uh, literally the first thing I did is I called a friend of mine who works for L'Oréal, and I said, "I know you're in the haircare... | 2,134.63 | 2,190.569 | customer | eng | en | us | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Mm-hmm | customer: And I wanted to bring in products that performed as well as the traditional beauty brands, and I wanted them to be void of certain chemicals of concern. So the first, uh, literally the first thing I did is I called a friend of mine who works for L'Oréal, and I said, "I know you're in the haircare business, bu... | 2,190.57 | 2,190.79 | agent | eng | de | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
... environmentally friendly natural brands that were successful, but the combination of high performance, being significantly safer, void of chemicals of concern, that was not widely being done. | agent: And by this point, right, like, if you wanted to start a makeup brand, um, you could. I mean, there are, there are co-manufacturers all over the US and Switzerland and Japan that make high-end beauty products. Was it just a matter of finding a place and saying, "These, this is what I wanna make," or was it more,... | 2,190.79 | 2,202.07 | customer | eng | en | unknown | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
All right. I'm just gonna put a bookmark here in this interview to say that sometimes people listen and they say, "Oh, I hate when people say all natural or clean or..." Because they're not regulated terms, right? | customer: Well, it was way more challenging because as one of my partners later on used to say, for us to make the makeup or, or skincare products that I wanted would be the same as going to the fanciest restaurant in town, having the most decadent chocolate cake, and saying, "I want that same chocolate cake, except yo... | 2,202.954 | 2,216.054 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Correct. | agent: Mm-hmm
customer: ... environmentally friendly natural brands that were successful, but the combination of high performance, being significantly safer, void of chemicals of concern, that was not widely being done.
agent: All right. I'm just gonna put a bookmark here in this interview to say that sometimes people ... | 2,216.054 | 2,216.074 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
They're, it's not like USDA organic. Um, so, uh, so that's real. Like, people hear that, and they're like, "What does that mean?" But, but to you, that means, um, products that are non- non-toxic and also environmentally friendly, organic. Like, what did it, what does that mean to you? | customer: ... environmentally friendly natural brands that were successful, but the combination of high performance, being significantly safer, void of chemicals of concern, that was not widely being done.
agent: All right. I'm just gonna put a bookmark here in this interview to say that sometimes people listen and the... | 2,216.074 | 2,232.214 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
So I, I think you're absolutely right. I think the term natural or all natural means absolutely nothing. The challenge in the beauty industry, which is not the same thing in the food industry, is that it is not regulated to the extent that it needs to be, and people can make marketing claims like safe, clean, anything. | agent: All right. I'm just gonna put a bookmark here in this interview to say that sometimes people listen and they say, "Oh, I hate when people say all natural or clean or..." Because they're not regulated terms, right?
customer: Correct.
agent: They're, it's not like USDA organic. Um, so, uh, so that's real. Like, pe... | 2,232.214 | 2,247.574 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Everybody can say, "We have a clean, clean this, clean that." I hear it all the time. We've done a lot of cosmetics, and the show's clean. | customer: Correct.
agent: They're, it's not like USDA organic. Um, so, uh, so that's real. Like, people hear that, and they're like, "What does that mean?" But, but to you, that means, um, products that are non- non-toxic and also environmentally friendly, organic. Like, what did it, what does that mean to you?
custome... | 2,247.574 | 2,252.363 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Right. | agent: They're, it's not like USDA organic. Um, so, uh, so that's real. Like, people hear that, and they're like, "What does that mean?" But, but to you, that means, um, products that are non- non-toxic and also environmentally friendly, organic. Like, what did it, what does that mean to you?
customer: So I, I think yo... | 2,252.363 | 2,252.394 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Everything's clean. | customer: So I, I think you're absolutely right. I think the term natural or all natural means absolutely nothing. The challenge in the beauty industry, which is not the same thing in the food industry, is that it is not regulated to the extent that it needs to be, and people can make marketing claims like safe, clean,... | 2,252.394 | 2,253.294 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Clean, clean means nothing today. | agent: Everybody can say, "We have a clean, clean this, clean that." I hear it all the time. We've done a lot of cosmetics, and the show's clean.
customer: Right.
agent: Everything's clean. | 2,253.294 | 2,255.134 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
No one's being like, "We sell dirty cosmetics. Very dirty, very unhealthy, very toxic." | customer: Right.
agent: Everything's clean.
customer: Clean, clean means nothing today. | 2,255.134 | 2,259.794 | agent | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
[laughs] Yeah. So for me, clean means high-performing products that are significantly safer for your health, void of certain chemicals of concern. And oftentimes with safer ingredients, they are more environmentally friendly, but that's not 100% a given. So to me, clean is complex. It's an arduous process, um, and it's... | agent: Everything's clean.
customer: Clean, clean means nothing today.
agent: No one's being like, "We sell dirty cosmetics. Very dirty, very unhealthy, very toxic." | 2,259.794 | 2,289.074 | customer | eng | en | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
All right. You are in LA, which is the home of some great, um, beauty brands. Dermalogica started there- | customer: Clean, clean means nothing today.
agent: No one's being like, "We sell dirty cosmetics. Very dirty, very unhealthy, very toxic."
customer: [laughs] Yeah. So for me, clean means high-performing products that are significantly safer for your health, void of certain chemicals of concern. And oftentimes with safe... | 2,289.074 | 2,294.714 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Mm-hmm | agent: No one's being like, "We sell dirty cosmetics. Very dirty, very unhealthy, very toxic."
customer: [laughs] Yeah. So for me, clean means high-performing products that are significantly safer for your health, void of certain chemicals of concern. And oftentimes with safer ingredients, they are more environmentally... | 2,294.714 | 2,295.304 | customer | eng | de | unknown | other | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
... and, you know, s- subsequently several others. But tell me about, like, what you, your first few products were going to be like. I imagine you started to research what the best sellers are a- and that's w- w- how you started? | customer: [laughs] Yeah. So for me, clean means high-performing products that are significantly safer for your health, void of certain chemicals of concern. And oftentimes with safer ingredients, they are more environmentally friendly, but that's not 100% a given. So to me, clean is complex. It's an arduous process, um... | 2,295.304 | 2,308.084 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
No, not really. You know, it's, it's interesting because I went in with blind naivete. Like, I, the thing that was... [laughs] I think one of the things that made me successful, and I, and I say this often to other founders, is don't spend so much time looking at the industry that you're entering into. I mean, yes, be ... | agent: All right. You are in LA, which is the home of some great, um, beauty brands. Dermalogica started there-
customer: Mm-hmm
agent: ... and, you know, s- subsequently several others. But tell me about, like, what you, your first few products were going to be like. I imagine you started to research what the best sel... | 2,309.414 | 2,345.714 | customer | eng | en | unknown | founder | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
So it was gonna be creams, which is smart because that's, that's a repeat purchase. Like, you probably- | customer: Mm-hmm
agent: ... and, you know, s- subsequently several others. But tell me about, like, what you, your first few products were going to be like. I imagine you started to research what the best sellers are a- and that's w- w- how you started?
customer: No, not really. You know, it's, it's interesting because... | 2,345.714 | 2,350.844 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
Correct | agent: ... and, you know, s- subsequently several others. But tell me about, like, what you, your first few products were going to be like. I imagine you started to research what the best sellers are a- and that's w- w- how you started?
customer: No, not really. You know, it's, it's interesting because I went in with b... | 2,350.844 | 2,350.844 | customer | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct | |||||||
... don't buy a blush or, or, or maybe lips. I don't know. You probably don't buy... Skin cream, you're using twice a day. You're gonna buy more of it. | customer: No, not really. You know, it's, it's interesting because I went in with blind naivete. Like, I, the thing that was... [laughs] I think one of the things that made me successful, and I, and I say this often to other founders, is don't spend so much time looking at the industry that you're entering into. I mean... | 2,350.844 | 2,358.074 | agent | eng | en | unknown | host | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | high | Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct_20260713T143033Z | meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct |
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