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I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman |
Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:09 pm |
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The Guiding Eye |
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Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:19 pm |
Posts: 1120 |
Location: Sat drinking 'soul stealer' cocktails in the city of Vilebrier with Morathi... |
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Thank you all for your replies - they're much appreciated in this experiment! |
Firstly, I got a 2nd game in last night vs the Coven of Light Asur list: 3 light wizards (1 BSB with radiant gem of hoeth), 3 archer units, swordmasters and white lions... |
Secondly, let me make one point clear to begin with folks - even though I have been away from gaming for 8 months, I did play my fair share of 8th ed games prior to that so I'm by no means a noob, just perhaps a little rusty and may take several games before I regain any semblance of form haha! |
Thirdly: I think people can easily come across as being very defensive about an army list that they've decide to post even though your intention is for it to be openly discussed - I don't mean to be sounding overly defensive in this thread if thats how it comes across - more that I'm trying to explain my rationale behind it... |
That said, I'll begin the replies! :D |
@ mr richards: the thing with the redeployment is that, yes they can turn to face and yes their move-and-shoot units may indeed draw a bead to my units (though I would try my damned hardest to position myself with one of their units/a building/terrain blocking at least half of my unit if I can), however their combat units won't be able to do very much one I march (thanks to the proximity of the flying BSB) round out of their sight again and then pepper their missile units. Basically, if I play it right, this list should not really see any close combats unless they're on my terms. Thus is may quickly become a war of attrition between missile units that determines the outcome of the games: it punishes opponents for fielding fewer but larger combat blocks - which tends to be the 'go-to' styled unit choice for most opponents. |
However I do agree that using this army will require a very strict and well played method for it to be a success: failing to do that will mean you will likely lose VERY quickly. Point taken on the Dark Riders too: they are the weakest link in this list as far as I can tell and though I have taken some precautions to optimising the unit size (I have had 2 games now and the DRs didn't do 'that' much in them, however as points denial, they are the best thing we have going). |
In that sense do you think 2 units of 10 would be better? It might allow me some spare points for a 2nd unit of Harpies too. |
@ Ichiyo: yes, there are some tough match ups, and some of these are more of a common choice than some others, theres not much point with theoryhammer (though for the sake of it I'd outline the main concept behind my army vs the empire in general). |
EG. Empire are a very tough match up and it quickly becomes a game of who can devastate the other first? If I manage to remain out of LOS and kill off their Level 4 or send a purple sun up the flank of their turtled army (best deployment to a sparse scouting and fast army like mine) OR they try to minimise the damage of the Sun by spreading out a bit more |
I think that some of the things to consider with my list is that it is really built for competitive tournaments that are: |
- not comped or limited in unit choices |
- for 2000pt games not 2400pts |
- based on a win/loss/draw not the 20/0 system. |
And now onto the philosophy with good old Red... (who has FINALLY gotten a picture after 2 and a half years! Congrats dude - whos the character off? :D) |
@ Red... : I have to say that I've never really tried avoidance since our way old book back in 6th Edition (our new book had too many combat toys to try and test out so my approach so far, until the Morathi/Dark Rider concept in April last year, was very much like yours ;)). This army is certainly not for casual games or for (as I mention above) certain tournament formats but rather for those open ended tourneys where people will try to cram in as much '8th ed uber stuff' as possible: this list is an attempt to fight against that trend and use something really quite different. |
So on that front my answers are: |
1. its a challenge, and being as I enjoy a challenge (until I realise its impossible) then yes its fun - equally for my opponent the list is'nt invincible and can be beaten but will prove tough to do so. In which case it could be fun for the opponent to try... ;) |
2. time will tell, I'll post the 2nd batrep up soon and you can see some of the pointers about where I need to improve (and my rustiness comes out haha!), my opponents can align to face it sure, but thats more negatives to hit and if I'm canny then they will be shooting with some other penalties. |
All I can really say is that I shall have to try and test this list as much as possible, its by no means invincible but could prove effective if/once I have honed how to use it - which may take quite some time! |
Batrep #2 up soon... |
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The Black Treasures of Naggaroth |
The Cult of the Vile Rose History |
Death of a Thousand Cuts armylist + batreps TLOEDG (The League of Extraordinary Druchii Gentlemen) |
Last edited by Dangerous Beans on Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total. |
Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:13 pm |
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Malekith's Best Friend |
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Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:48 am |
Posts: 1575 |
Location: Menoth Wills it - Hippies or Goths |
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Mate, i like the list, but i don't think the hydra has much place in 8th as everyone who knows what they are doing knows how to deal with it. I personally with that list like 2 RBTs to deploy on the flanks. You should have enough shooting to kill there shooting elements and give good range. |
But Woodies would have a field day with the army though. |
Also have you thought about mounting the other level 2 on a peg as well for the extra wound, and flight. |
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DJ Dizzy Posted: Jul 1 2009, 08:13 PM |
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My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer |
Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:40 pm |
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... And Hell Followed |
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:52 am |
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Location: Scotland |
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Hi Beans :D |
I remember this concept from a while back and even read some of your battle reports! Good to see ya back in the game ;) |
Needs more Harpies! |
The second sorceress... Why the BDE egg if she a ranged caster? Surely you want her to be as far away from the enemy as possible, and the BDE is very much a close ranged weapon. You could use her as a flank/rear charger using the breath for some combat res, but I think this may be a waste of her other abilities. Especially since Fireball is a magic missile (it is, isn't it?). |
Plenty of shades in there. I love shades, personally, do you not feel the need for any Bloodshades at all? With so many of them you'd think at least one unit would be good enough to warrant an upgrade. |
... And a Hydra, I never leave home without at least one! |
One last little niggle - I think your BSB might be better with twin handbows rather than a RPT Xbow. More shots and quick to fire means you can march him behind units and still shoot to full effect. Just a though! |
I'm sure you'll get back into the game in no time! |
MG |
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Nathra Severain - Shade (Group 38) |
WS:5 S:4 T:2 D:6 I: 3 |
Skills; Acrobatics; Basic Stealth; Free Running |
Equipment: Longsword; Shurikens (6/10); Shade Cloak; Asur Arm & Leg Armour Plates; Misericorde; Gutting Knife |
Inventory; Ornate Tiara; Sword Belt; Asuri Orb; 106 gold |
Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:10 am |
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The Guiding Eye |
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Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:19 pm |
Posts: 1120 |
Location: Sat drinking 'soul stealer' cocktails in the city of Vilebrier with Morathi... |
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Hiya chaps, thanks for the responses! And minigrift I thought I might be able to tempt you to comment as you'd popped along last time I'd brought up a similar concept but with Morathi instead :) I should be writing up batrep #2 with this list tonight, though its pretty short and brutal! |
@ Mitch: can you go into some more detail about why Woodies would have a field day? Particularly if your reasoning is based on a fairly standard competitive list but not necessarily limited to just that. Theoryhammer though it is (until I get some games in against similar lists) I believe that, used correctly, my list would certainly give them a run for their money :D |
The Hydra is there because the tournament I'm attending will likely see the Watchtower Scenario rolled up: 5/6 chance in fact. The hydra is a later game tower clearer that paves way for my shades to occupy and hold. Meanwhile the rest of my list tries (VERY HARD) to distract the remaining parts of his army and psychologically convince him to take his eye off the goal by chasing my shadows: evil I know but very dark elf like! :twisted: |
Not only that, but as Minigrift suggests it also draws fire like a magnet (taking heat off the parts of my army that DO mean something) AND can be highly useful for finishing off larger units with his breathe weapon - combined with the breathe weapon of the level 2 and the remaining firepower/magic I have should see units crumble quite quickly if they are focus fired upon. |
@ Minigrift: The BDE is really either for protection (vs scouting/fast cav trying to hunt her down as she gains T6 for that player turn, or for late game finishers to enemy units: once the enemy shooting/magic is silenced, she can then zip in and breathe all over an enemy unit: preferably with a low T and little armour save: empire halberdiers or skeleton warriors are prime examples. The Shade units don't have a bloodshade because it meant missing out on 2 more shots for not much gain - though I AM considering taking 1 unit as a unit of 6 in case I come up against a bad matchup such as woodies: the idea would be to place myself as close as possible (3x2 formation) and take a major gamble on gaining the first turn (odds are slightly on my side due to so few deployment drops) and then charging either the flank of an enemy unit such as gladeguard or by charging an enemy unit with a level 4/wizard with magic missiles as our average charge range is 12". VERY risky I know, but on the kind of matchups that seem to look like an autolose situation it might go some distance to redressing the balance! |
I forgot to mention too that my final 5pts from the list is spent on the Dragonbane Gem to prevent enemy fireballs/flickering fires killing her off at long range ;) |
I agree that the list could do with a 2nd Harpy unit and also the dual handbow Master, but where would I get the points from? I could possibly drop the size of one shade unit to 6 instead of 9 and so free up 51 points, take 6pts away (upgrading the masters R.Crossbow for 2 R.Handbows) so I would then gain 45 points. |
I have also considered (and this is a long way off yet until I get at least 8-10 games in with JUST what I've written in the OP) dropping the unit of 6 Dark Riders for a unit of Crossbowmen purely for added firepower and to keep the enemy focused on a target. Of course, the unit would not be manoeuvrable enough to escape most enemies so it would like give up VPs every game. However if they meant the gaining of more VPs than their cost then it was a worthwhile trade off! :D |
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