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I have more torque than the motor for sure |
Yeah. I don't feel like that should be enough on its own to cause repeated failures though. |
I mean, it seems that it is. But it shouldn't be. Lots of people pedal hard through intersections to get up to speed faster. |
I'm not sure if this is the reason or something else but worst case I was thinking to maybe repair this again and get a road bike for when I feel like a workout |
Is there any specs on max torque on the pedals? |
I could attach a load cell and bike with it, log how heavy I push |
What's your pedaling cadence like? |
Are you spinning fast when you put the power down, or are you spinning slow and hard? |
If the latter, it might be worth trying to switch up your technique. |
I try to gear down but my fallback has been to power through |
I gear down to get the motor to help me as well |
The thing is that my ideal RPM is lower üòõ |
Instances where you have to fall back to powering through due to high gearing could be contributing, but I would expect the BBS02 to be more tolerant to occasional mistakes of that sort. |
I'm sure I don't pedal as hard as you do, but I put over 10k miles on my BBS02, and in that time, there were plenty of instances where I didn't quite manage to gear down for a stop and had to power through. Never had any maintenance issues. |
If your ideal RPM is lower, that could contribute to long-term wear. The BBS02 wants to spin fast. |
I have had the bbs02 for a couple years now. When I use motor I gear for the motor |
I know the green zone of the motor pretty well, so I know when I am too low or too high for the motor, but without motor assistance I would just bike as normal |
Gotcha |
for instance I tried to make a habit of electric power to work, and manual home. then I get the workout sesh after work and can jump in the shower at home |
Getting into pure theory on my part (because I haven't seen many failures of this type to learn from), but I would expect the pedal clutch to collect wear & tear whether the motor is running or not. So your normal low pedaling cadence could still be contributing to these failures, at least in theory. |
I think you're spot on. Any torque on the pedals go through it |
When it broke the pedals were just in "neutral" |
Troque on the motor reduces load on the clutch, because the rider is letting the motor do the work, and that is not coupled through the clutch |
So riding without motor would put a lot more load on it |
Makes sense |
I think I need a custom hardened steel version of it... |
I was just thinking the same. lol |
Would be nice if someone made that, but I haven't seen one and honestly wouldn't really expect to. It's such a narrow niche within a niche. |
Metal/hardened nylon gear replacements took a while to reach market (and then died out and came back a few times), and nylon gear failures are *far* more common. |
I think metal is nicer than nylon. I can 3d print nylon though but don't think it's gonna get stronger |
There are also PEEK gears now (for the BBSHD at least - haven't seen it for the BBS02 yet) that supposedly combine the toughness of steel gear replacements with the quietness of the stock nylon gear. |
fuck yeah |
Yeah lol |
Ive been told that the motor also outputs its power through the clutch and that you cant even use throttle with a broken clutch |
that's false because I rode the bike with broken clutch with only motor power. The coupling is directly between pedal shaft and the front cog, so if the motor was on it, the motor would force the pedals |
https://discord.com/channels/593205534862082073/593205534862082075/983021232528195685 |
@Black Moons explain yourself |
Must be a misunderstanding. Clutch is such a weird name, I like to call it the pedal ratchet ring |
Its a pawl clutch, just like the ones used in bicycle hubs |
Ah, it has a name üôÇ okay |
But yeah, mechanically on the inside of that ring is a coupling to the pedal axle, and on the outside is the big gear |
The motor I think has a one way bearing, so when the motor moves and not the pedal, then the pawl clutch freewheels, when you pedal and the motor is off then the motor one way bearing is freewheeling |
The nylon gear also has a clutch on the inside of it, I think its a roller clutch |
Hm maybe that's the one for the motor |
It makes sense that there are 2 clutches in there |
I didn't take apart that stuff |
This is the inside of the gear, I think ur right, its also a bearing |
üòá |
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/knowledge-base/motors-and-kits/bbshd/8184-bbshd-pedals-stop-working-clutch-failure |
> This is rare problem and caused with athletic rider applying tons of torque to the pedals and the clutch just breaks loose. |
I mean, I guess that's a compliment of a problem to have, I'll buy another ring and a road bike |
It’s also a problem with heavy riders |
Heavy person putting all their weight on a pedal creates a huge amount of torque |
*shrugs* |
Would it break a BBSHD to run it at 1500w while also pedalling at like 50-60rpm, in the highest gear? (for several minutes) |
Not sure it'll outright break, at least not the first time you do it. |
But that's low RPM to be pushing that much power. It's not going to like that long-term even if it tolerates it short-term. |
I'll only do it once (probably), just trying to see how hard I can push it without killing it for a race |
Hmm. |
I don't have any hard info on the BBSHD's exact point of short-term failure, so I hesitate to say 'it'll be fine'. But it *should* be fine for a time. |
Out of curiosity, even in a race, what's the use case for such low rpm over such a long period? Racing singlespeeds? |
The low RPM is just from the motor being in a high gear with me pedalling, it wouldn't always be like that but when I'm on a slight uphill and I don't shift down it would happen |
Racing a car |
I'll be on relatively straight, flat road, they'll be on very windy, thin, hilly road so they'll have to go slow, giving me a chance to beat them if I can keep my speed up to like 60km/h (8km long race) |
For what it's worth, higher cadence isn't just less stress on the motor components, it's also higher motor efficiency. So if you want maximum power to the ground, it might be worth reconsidering your technique. :) |
That said, I do figure it *should* be okay as long as you don't make it a habit. And give the motor time to cool off after the race before you ride more. |
If I'm putting in significant power, I presume the rpm is too low, so if I can pedal really hard in 7th gear, I should drop down to 6th? (at 1500w) |
I mean, even 80rpm is going to be a significant improvement over 50-60. So that might be a reasonable middle ground to target, if you can manage it. |
IDK how much power you put down or how much power you could put down at higher rpms, so it's hard to say exactly where your sweet spot is going to be. |
I'm unfit, I definitely won't be doing high rpms anyway, thats why I assume if I'm doing much work the rpm is too low |
Out of curiosity, what's your bike's gearing and wheel size? |
I'm trying to dig into this a bit more, but I'm having trouble reconciling '60kph' with '50-60rpm' using common bike parts. |
26" wheels, crappy knobbly tyres, 46t front 14t rear |
I got to 60 today at 1kw, with pedalling hard, on flat ground |
without a tailwind, just going flat out |
I'm gonna be transferring the motor to a new bike though before the race |
29", 42t front, 11t smallest rear |
I'm not sure how, with the numbers you just gave me. |
You should be hitting 120rpm at 50kph. |
That exact speed isn't GPS verified, but I've tested many times before and my speedometer is right within 0.1km/h, with GPS, up to 65km/h |
Total weight was 95kg or so (including bike), ducked real low on the bars |
I'm not saying you're lying or anything, to be clear. But these numbers don't work. |
The BBSHD can *just* hit those performance numbers in the conditions you're describing (which makes sense - this is a top speed run we're talking about), but the crank RPM with your gearing is WAY too fast to pedal along with; forget about slow pedaling like you're describing. |
this is the stretch I did it on today |
I'll try go out there in a couple days and recreate it, with GPS and on camera |
I would be very interested in seeing that. |
its fine, I did it once and got 60kmh |
I have footage from the ride today, but no GPS on it, and it's at a slower pace, capped at 850w the whole time |
With 46/14 gearing on 26" wheels, we're talking almost 150rpm at 60kph. |
That's what's throwing me. |
on the return journey I hit 60, wasnt recording that |
Yea, I had to use my highest gear when my speed on throttle alone already maxes out in 4th gear |
I'll see if there's any nearer roads to me that I could test on tomorrow (technically today, it's nearly 3am). I've gotta charge the battery for 7 hours first though. |
stay safe at those speeds |
I wear some Moto gear and some DH gear, I'm well protected |
better protected than me lol |
Technically my gear is only rated to 45 and 32km/h, but it should cover a bit higher |
Same lol |
I use a motorcycle helmet, but that's pretty much it as far as safety gear goes. |
I very much doubt my $10 fingerless cycling gloves will last long between me and the pavement. |
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