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[2073.60 --> 2078.92] long ago when we talked to him you know similar i mean he he'd done two rounds of you know fundraising |
[2078.92 --> 2085.42] first one was a kickstarter second was a bounty source and uh you know he was building jsk at the |
[2085.42 --> 2092.46] time to dovetail into t-edit and you know his story was a bit more successful and i think it was |
[2092.46 --> 2098.24] only because mozilla stepped in and and and gave like 30 000 to kind of complete the goal or something |
[2098.24 --> 2104.16] like that but you know we're seeing open source look for funding more often in your case it's a |
[2104.16 --> 2109.00] little different craig because you've got a startup you're doing you took a pause from that to work on |
[2109.00 --> 2114.92] something that's open source and then also kickstart it so it's it's slightly different but |
[2114.92 --> 2121.16] yeah it's kind of a bummer that you're not getting i guess more funding traction on your kickstarter |
[2121.16 --> 2127.38] yeah just just for the record my startup is not making any money so i'm not i'm not asking for uh |
[2127.38 --> 2133.98] like a bonus here like if if this passes so how do you live then i'm on ziki if off uh savings okay |
[2133.98 --> 2138.48] must be a lot of money consulting especially if you're in silicon valley right |
[2138.48 --> 2144.92] yeah well i've got roommates here so we keep them keep the rent down um but yeah my new plan is to |
[2144.92 --> 2148.38] reach out to companies i think it's i think it's actually a really big opportunity companies blow |
[2148.38 --> 2152.18] you know just thousands on like sponsoring conferences they don't blow it it's it's you know |
[2152.18 --> 2156.36] it's good right right it's good way to spend it but they you know they they spend money on um |
[2156.36 --> 2161.14] recruiting and advertising and thousands of thousands and like ziki's sort of like gotten |
[2161.14 --> 2164.78] all this publicity and it's just sitting out there waiting for someone to kind of like |
[2164.78 --> 2172.16] a company to rescue it and you know uh they would have tons of of kind of like really cutting edge |
[2172.16 --> 2176.38] tech people that are like really into just the very cutting edge those are like the fans of ziki |
[2176.38 --> 2182.48] you know they would they would have those people saying like wow thank you uh you know engine yard |
[2182.48 --> 2188.82] or thank you heroku or mozilla for for saving this unfortunately i can't have the uh donation any |
[2188.82 --> 2195.02] bigger on kickstarter than 10 000 so i'm gonna need to like get maybe three or four companies to uh |
[2195.02 --> 2200.88] send you know donate 10 000 which i think isn't much and you know in return i will i will make such a |
[2200.88 --> 2205.86] big deal out of you know tweeting and emailing all the kickstarter backers saying like hey this company |
[2205.86 --> 2212.64] saved ziki um you know on the screencast showing uh you can even buy the.com you can be like you know |
[2212.64 --> 2218.84] such and such company save ziki.com and put up like a landing page and i will tweet that everywhere |
[2218.84 --> 2223.34] yeah right that'd be crazy another thing i mean you've got your get up too we had chat on the show |
[2223.34 --> 2228.56] not long ago talking about get up and uh yeah listen to it's kind of a bummer you got one dollar per week |
[2228.56 --> 2233.30] coming to you listen everybody you got one dollar a week this guy's been building this open source |
[2233.30 --> 2240.54] project for 10 years okay that's like a cent uh you know yes it's not even cool it's it's that's kind of |
[2240.54 --> 2243.98] what i get for having a crappy install like if all these people excited about it and they try to |
[2243.98 --> 2249.00] install it and they're like well you know five different errors so maybe if you fix the install |
[2249.00 --> 2254.16] process you get more get up yeah hopefully it used to be higher it used to be more than a dollar |
[2254.16 --> 2258.08] but i actually uh actually found out that most of that was coming from my mom |
[2258.08 --> 2268.42] sad sad true story awesome so in um on the kickstarter page you talk about ziki's future i know |
[2268.42 --> 2273.44] we kind of covered a bit of it but can you kind of paint the picture of of like what's the trajectory |
[2273.44 --> 2279.50] where are you going with it and as best as you can fill in the gaps for us cool yeah the future of |
[2279.50 --> 2287.38] ziki's it's morphing into a language um it's you know basically just a kind of wiki-ish freeform way |
[2287.38 --> 2294.74] of like making a user interface so um you know if you take a step back and look at what user interface |
[2294.74 --> 2301.56] is let's say you have like a foo menu in your you know your gui menu bar and you click it and then you |
[2301.56 --> 2307.80] see bar what's the difference between that and seeing a foo icon on your desktop it pops up and |
[2307.80 --> 2314.70] it shows you bar uh typing foo in your shell command and it shows you bar as the outputs you go to a url |
[2314.70 --> 2320.66] you know foo.com and you see bar up here there's there's something fundamental there that can be |
[2320.66 --> 2325.68] abstracted out and to me the simplest way of doing that and like you know a lot of other languages |
[2325.68 --> 2330.92] like python and coffee script are using this two-space indenting uh it's just this sort of |
[2330.92 --> 2339.40] natural thing so why not have just a dead simple uh kind of language slash syntax of representing you |
[2339.40 --> 2346.46] know a ui where you just type a word in freeform text and then you double click on it or to do a |
[2346.46 --> 2350.84] keyboard shortcut and then you see the output and of course from there if that's indented two spaces |
[2350.84 --> 2357.18] underneath you could have multiple lines of output you know and uh you each one of those lines of |
[2357.18 --> 2361.62] output themselves can be an option and you can expand those and you indent that two spaces more |
[2361.62 --> 2365.90] underneath so four spaces and then at that point basically you've got like a tree that looks just |
[2365.90 --> 2373.84] like any you know tree that you see in like a left nav of of you know a standard application |
[2373.84 --> 2381.80] um but if you keep things simple and you keep things boiled down as a text format you can kind |
[2381.80 --> 2390.82] of represent just about any user interface as just an indented textual tree and um you know i think |
[2390.82 --> 2396.66] it's it is absolutely insane to me that there isn't a simple format where you can define an interface |
[2396.66 --> 2403.28] it's like we'll make a little animals uh you know program and underneath it you've got like mammals and |
[2403.28 --> 2408.42] lizards and underneath mammals you've got uh whatever dogs and cats so you want to make that |
[2408.42 --> 2416.68] structure and deploy it as a you know navigable websites as a shell command as a mobile app where |
[2416.68 --> 2421.24] you know you it's a mobile app called animals and then you double click it and it shows you two options |
[2421.24 --> 2426.70] mammals and lizards or whatever i said uh and then you know we've got all these devices coming out like |
[2426.70 --> 2433.54] all these i've got a pebble i love it there are like 10 smart watches coming out um and they all |
[2433.54 --> 2441.98] have their own separate apis and i think the world is just totally ripe for having this dead simple uh |
[2441.98 --> 2447.18] language where you can just type something out uh basically the navigation of of you know a program |
[2447.18 --> 2451.78] and then deploy that to all these devices of course if you want to make a pebble app that does something |
[2451.78 --> 2457.94] useful or iphone app you'll probably at some point have to call like a native method but i say make |
[2457.94 --> 2463.24] the structure first make that deploy everywhere so you can navigate around um and then if you have to |
[2463.24 --> 2468.90] do something whatever iphone specific then you know on top of this universal structure of your navigation |
[2468.90 --> 2476.42] you can you know conditionally say like all right they clicked on um phone call if platform is iphone |
[2476.42 --> 2481.16] then make phone call and you know if you want to make it look pretty then you can do all kinds of |
[2481.16 --> 2486.78] stuff that you know we already have tools like this to like style uh the output to move things around |
[2486.78 --> 2491.60] and not make it just a nested structure but out of the box with ziki you can just type um you know |
[2491.60 --> 2501.88] something like uh animals and indent uh mammals and lizards underneath and then you can uh navigate that |
[2501.88 --> 2507.96] and use it in the shell command you can go to the ziki web server that's built into ziki and you can |
[2507.96 --> 2514.16] see a mobile interface so it'll show like in you know like a little mobile uh pill button style the |
[2514.16 --> 2521.04] menu items so uh mammals and lizards and you can click on mammals and it will move over like you know |
[2521.04 --> 2527.34] like uh slide over like a standard mobile interface and um from your text editor as well if you have a |
[2527.34 --> 2532.90] ziki plugin for your text editor you can type uh animals and uh double click or control enter and |
[2532.90 --> 2540.12] it will uh insert those underneath um and from there you can do all kinds of things where it's not just |
[2540.12 --> 2548.00] this trivial example you can add headings and paragraphs uh like i said um uh ziki is very wiki |
[2548.00 --> 2553.12] inspired their wiki syntaxes for tons of stuff like i said there's a wiki syntax for running a shell |
[2553.12 --> 2558.24] command it's just dollar sign space and then the wiki syntax for heading is just a angle bracket |
[2558.24 --> 2564.32] space um and then the heading syntax for a bullet point is just like a dash space you know with two |
[2564.32 --> 2568.90] space indenting so you can type those things in the commands as well and then when you display that in |
[2568.90 --> 2574.54] a mobile interface it can show you it can render the heading as a as a larger font size and you can |
[2574.54 --> 2580.16] make you know actually an app that's like read only uh that actually has some like useful content you |
[2580.16 --> 2584.60] can make that with just zero code and that could deploy to everywhere like a cool example i think is |
[2584.60 --> 2590.70] like uh if you go to a conference they could say like hey got the conference schedule uh in this |
[2590.70 --> 2598.22] global format you can deploy it on your watch you can deploy it on your your cell phone um on you know |
[2598.22 --> 2603.78] and basically any device and then even though it's like static content it's very useful and you could uh |
[2603.78 --> 2609.22] navigate around on your on your um pebble to see the schedule and then you know of course |
[2609.22 --> 2616.44] from there having embedded code is gonna pop up as a you know as a need very quickly if you want to do |
[2616.44 --> 2624.16] something you know more than than a static uh app so the way i do that is is uh underneath a menu item |
[2624.16 --> 2629.00] you can uh there's a wiki syntax for code embedded underneath a menu item which is this exclamation mark |
[2629.00 --> 2636.98] space and you can have multiple lines of a method and uh you know that can call your you know |
[2636.98 --> 2644.12] your library that has your code very well structured out in a way you know you can have your menu items |
[2644.12 --> 2649.84] delegate to that and i've got a bunch of other ways of of having dynamic code like you can have a class |
[2649.84 --> 2657.16] that has a kind of a routing string that'll route back and forth between methods um and uh and different |
[2657.16 --> 2662.34] paths and pass arguments and kind of sophisticated way but kind of the number one rule in ziki is like |
[2662.34 --> 2669.38] by default the absolute simplest way of doing something uh should work like if if you can do |
[2669.38 --> 2672.20] something with a class you should be able to do with a script as well when you want to |
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