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[847.74 --> 853.14] for learning people too like you know just getting started you get all those all the feedback basically |
[853.14 --> 860.72] from the cli that's already present for git and you know do you want to do a push or do you want to |
[860.72 --> 866.66] pull those kind of things are like already accessible and it's also keyboard navigatable so it's not like |
[866.66 --> 870.04] you have to move your mouse around but though you could right you can double click on things if you |
[870.04 --> 878.98] want as well you're right so you said xsh um this piece of it does it pop its own window when you do |
[878.98 --> 883.86] that because i know it's very interactive clickable um or can it take over your current terminal session |
[883.86 --> 890.06] or does it pop its own ui it takes over the current terminal session what's actually happening behind |
[890.06 --> 896.74] the scenes is it's launching uh emacs okay but i'm overriding all the keyboard shortcuts uh including |
[896.74 --> 902.18] including escape i'll make escape actually cancel out so it won't confuse people uh so as far as most |
[902.18 --> 906.64] people are concerned they don't even have to know what it is i'll have all the key shortcuts on the |
[906.64 --> 912.94] screen they're all they're all remapped not all of them you can use the the base uh emacs shortcuts if |
[912.94 --> 917.34] you know them but yeah it's just it's just actually running within emacs and just customizing the heck out |
[917.34 --> 923.34] of it and it's doing it in a way that's not interfering with uh your normal emacs config if you have it which |
[923.34 --> 930.68] is a big you know challenge that i've had that makes a lot of sense i was wondering how you're |
[930.68 --> 936.26] accomplishing that what about operating system support is this uh linux and mac at the moment |
[936.26 --> 942.58] yeah linux and mac um there's a pull request for uh for windows support out there um that might |
[942.58 --> 948.44] might go a little little bit of the way toward uh windows support i'd like to do windows support um |
[948.44 --> 953.30] now that i've got all this publicity from the kickstarter i think if it passes i'll be able |
[953.30 --> 957.42] to reach out to people afterward and say like hey people that know how to do this process |
[957.42 --> 962.46] communication and windows like pair with me and help me on it but i don't i'm not promising windows |
[962.46 --> 965.70] support as part of the kickstarter even though a lot of people want me to just because i don't |
[965.70 --> 972.64] you know i've already kind of promised a lot but i do want to do it well uh jerry do you think it |
[972.64 --> 976.36] makes sense to dab down kickstarter kind of go i want to i was thinking about going into the past a bit |
[976.36 --> 980.70] to try to figure out where this what was the problem you kind of tackled where did this come |
[980.70 --> 985.60] from what's the history it's like 10 years old so it's not like it's a year old it's it's pretty |
[985.60 --> 991.48] dated yeah in terms of its age you know not so much not good and i'm interested in i guess a little |
[991.48 --> 996.00] bit of the technical implementation i'm sure for a 10 plus year project it's probably gone through |
[996.00 --> 1001.86] different forms i know it seems to be written in ruby at the moment but perhaps not always so i'm |
[1001.86 --> 1006.48] definitely interested in the history of of how you developed it cool yeah originally it was an |
[1006.48 --> 1014.34] elisp right um i originally just absolutely hated and despised emacs because i started from like a |
[1014.34 --> 1019.44] mac gui uh you know actually i started before that that's not true i did my first experience was apple |
[1019.44 --> 1026.70] 2e and basic uh when i was really young and then um then i you know got a mac and just loved it loved |
[1026.70 --> 1030.88] it loved it went to college and they're like here use emacs and i was like where's you know where are the |
[1030.88 --> 1037.42] menu items this is horrible uh i started using pico instead which is where i got the inspiration for |
[1037.42 --> 1042.00] seeing the keyboard shortcuts on the screen i was just talking about but then i i kind of fell in |
[1042.00 --> 1051.20] love with with emacs and uh loved what it did and like the just the free form aspects of it but i always |
[1051.20 --> 1058.06] hated the default keyboard shortcuts and still kind of do and um i i use it for all kinds of things and |
[1058.06 --> 1066.40] it seemed like a one big missing piece was a cool file navigation and i i always want to be able to |
[1066.40 --> 1074.08] have kind of extreme flexibility um and the file navigation that was kind of ideal for me was being |
[1074.08 --> 1080.06] able to control edit anything at any time so you know if i have a directory of say you know 20 models |
[1080.06 --> 1085.70] and i only care about uh two of them and one starts with a a and one starts with a z i don't want to |
[1085.70 --> 1089.80] scroll back and forth between the two i want to delete the ones in between just temporarily you |
[1089.80 --> 1098.96] know hide them from the view so i made basically a file browsing uh you know format which is just |
[1098.96 --> 1104.72] you know the most obvious thing you can do which is like you basically type a path with slashes and |
[1104.72 --> 1110.60] then if you want to make it multi-line you can uh you indent two spaces so you know like |
[1110.60 --> 1119.66] um slash project slash and then line break space space and then my project basically taking that |
[1119.66 --> 1126.70] and making that navigable the uh keyboard shortcuts and then later the mouse um so yeah it started out |
[1126.70 --> 1133.02] as elisp i made that in elisp i made the uh running shell commands which is pretty similar since you type |
[1133.02 --> 1138.00] a dollar sign space and like ls and then it inserts the result indented two spaces underneath |
[1138.00 --> 1145.86] uh implemented the filtering down and um tons of keyboard shortcuts and just kept changing things |
[1145.86 --> 1152.16] over and over and over and eventually discovered i uh well i became a ruby programmer in the meantime |
[1152.16 --> 1158.40] and just loved ruby and dhh kind of just rocked everyone's world with with rails and you know had |
[1158.40 --> 1166.74] this just beautiful combination of of sort of um uh flexibility and yet structure where it was needed in |
[1166.74 --> 1171.72] rails and i just totally bought into it became a rails programmer loved ruby because i liked the |
[1171.72 --> 1178.28] oh stuff i could do in java but love the i i started out with pearl and loved the flexibility of pearl and |
[1178.28 --> 1184.96] ruby was like a perfect marriage of the two so i found this uh library called el4r like elisp for ruby |
[1184.96 --> 1190.96] written by one of the core ruby guys this guy named rubikitch and uh that let you program |
[1190.96 --> 1200.08] inside of emex but using ruby instead of elisp so i ported to that and my product i ported uh you |
[1200.08 --> 1205.40] know my big code base to that uh named it zicky around that time uh my productivity shot up about |
[1205.40 --> 1211.12] like 2x or 3x um i do like lisp but for this particular uh application ruby was just a great |
[1211.12 --> 1217.86] fit a lot of text processing etc processing um yeah it's been it's been ruby for |
[1217.86 --> 1228.40] maybe seven or no more like eight or nine years now i think so i i know one of the major drawbacks |
[1228.40 --> 1233.06] that you mentioned for people getting started with it has been the setup slash install process |
[1233.06 --> 1241.40] some of that that's the blame on on you know ruby as a as a choice i know uh recently we had on uh |
[1241.40 --> 1248.00] jeremy signs uh who you know has a post where uh he was distributing command line tools in ruby and |
[1248.00 --> 1251.94] and switched to go because of the you know the universal binary that you can just drop in |
[1251.94 --> 1258.28] is is ruby some in the ecosystem some of the reason why the setup process has been not not |
[1258.28 --> 1265.60] streamlined yet um i suppose uh ruby is probably i mean at this point the ruby landscape is pretty |
[1265.60 --> 1271.84] good because ruby 2.0 is installed by default on the mac on linux people you just tell them to |
[1271.84 --> 1276.02] install something and they say okay right on the mac if you like say install a different version of |
[1276.02 --> 1281.00] ruby it's a big challenge but uh with mavericks ruby 2.0 is installed by default and i can just use |
[1281.00 --> 1287.08] that it has emacs installed by default i can just use that you know behind the scenes um i should i |
[1287.08 --> 1292.52] should mention that uh beginning a couple years ago i started supporting other languages so even though |
[1292.52 --> 1300.34] ziki is implemented in ruby you can make ziki commands uh in python javascript coffee script |
[1300.34 --> 1308.70] uh several different languages nice talk about these commands yeah um the the coolest part of of ziki is |
[1308.70 --> 1315.10] that you can make your own commands uh ziki is is very wiki inspired which you know you're probably |
[1315.10 --> 1322.44] not surprised because it's it's called ziki which is you know uh wiki with an x instead of a w um i first i |
[1322.44 --> 1328.96] called i i was calling that uh expandable wiki is kind of what ziki was short for um the first i i |
[1328.96 --> 1334.56] called it executable wiki now i'm leaning toward expand expanding wiki actually for x i k i so it's |
[1334.56 --> 1341.84] very it's very wiki inspired you can uh type the name of a command and if it doesn't exist it'll pop |
[1341.84 --> 1348.08] up and say hey this command doesn't exist do you want to create it using a text file or a ruby script |
[1348.08 --> 1353.44] or a python script or a directory structure where the directories and files are your menu items |
[1353.44 --> 1362.46] or a class where it'll just take the methods in your class and use them as the menu items and then |
[1362.46 --> 1370.38] when you type the name of that command let's say uh like adam is a command we'll uh you know then |
[1370.38 --> 1375.58] you'll be able to just type adam on any blank line and double click and it will run your file |
[1375.58 --> 1383.48] and basically as time goes on i can i've i've kind of had more and more ideas about hey here's this |
[1383.48 --> 1389.90] obvious way of making a command and they kind of get simpler and simpler and to me i think for uh |
[1389.90 --> 1396.96] what ziki tried it does it tries to like make uh make it so that all the simplest possible ways of |
[1396.96 --> 1404.68] making a little command with like a ui of like kind of menu items uh exists uh so ziki is like |
[1404.68 --> 1410.84] you know one use case is better shell console the other use case is quickest way to make a ui on top |
[1410.84 --> 1416.56] of code like a working ui so you can just take the command that you've written it's got its own little |
[1416.56 --> 1423.54] ui and you can just pass it to a friend and they can they can run it exactly is there a distribution |
[1423.54 --> 1429.56] mechanism or is it like you know email me this text file or you know whatever yeah there's there's |
[1429.56 --> 1436.94] no uh central repository yet aside from um basically my git repository the uh you know you |
[1436.94 --> 1443.52] know the homebrew model of if you have a uh you know a new package you just give it to to the main |
[1443.52 --> 1447.56] guy and he'll check it in for you i mean that's what i've got now basically but down the road yeah |
[1447.56 --> 1452.64] having something sort of like ruby gems or npm is probably going to be a fit at some point |
[1452.64 --> 1458.50] so how many built-in commands are there just off the top of your head uh several hundred i'd say |
[1458.50 --> 1463.36] roughly like 400 or something um probably more but some of them there are kind of silly and useless |
[1463.36 --> 1470.72] but uh over over a couple hundred pretty pretty useful ones the uh i should say at kind of the intro to |
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