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[801.52 --> 811.00] uh we i personally hate uh um religious technical discussions like the editor wars of the 80s |
[811.00 --> 819.26] um i i find it extremely unproductive i believe everyone should choose their |
[819.26 --> 830.24] tools i'm really pro um um a variety of tools so what we we faced this early on uh roi actually |
[830.24 --> 838.44] helped one of our uh more passionate developers um yeah martin jenna he's like an awesome awesome dude |
[838.44 --> 846.76] yeah he's like an awesome dude who runs the the 100 jas blog uh and he wanted to make a mean fork |
[846.76 --> 857.66] using amber and roi helped him doing so uh and and uh when we saw this coming uh we and roi uh started |
[857.66 --> 865.76] creating uh different forks of mean we we created a jane fork which used a juggling db as an obfuscation |
[865.76 --> 874.76] layer for different databases um i played with the idea of um breaking the angular part and um |
[874.76 --> 883.88] um letting users re uh use the the web framework frameworks they want like amber uh backbone knockout |
[883.88 --> 889.80] whatever you like um and i helped the company implement their own web framework inside mean |
[889.80 --> 897.44] so um we find this this is actually one of the things we find uh inspiring because we don't see mean |
[897.44 --> 905.26] as uh as the goal we see it as a starting point for something much bigger um javascript full stack is |
[905.26 --> 912.78] a vision not yet uh fulfilled yeah it's very new yeah it's very new uh we experienced uh firsthand |
[912.78 --> 922.62] the possibilities in this field um as roi mentioned um the quick uh the gain in performance |
[922.62 --> 927.78] developers uh developers get when they use a javascript um a full stack javascript boilerplate |
[927.78 --> 936.00] uh is impressive um and we want to push towards that location we even considering starting a project |
[936.00 --> 943.86] called jsfs we will talk about it sometimes sometime later but uh jsfs will contain the different flavors |
[943.86 --> 952.74] of um full stack javascript it's um it's uh in the far future i don't know how far but um |
[952.74 --> 957.54] it's still in its infancy yeah yeah yeah but but but that's okay that's um |
[957.54 --> 964.44] we find this as an opportunity not a problem we we see we would like to see developers implement |
[964.44 --> 972.26] their own flavor of whatever they like stack um call it whatever i think we're trying to also like |
[972.26 --> 978.60] sort of take the discussion about javascript to like a newer place which talks about not only the |
[978.60 --> 983.84] components that you use but rather the patterns that we see emerging from these these tools so like |
[983.84 --> 989.62] full like the full stack thing comes comes naturally because it's all javascript and all in one language |
[989.62 --> 998.80] so it's much easier to describe it that way um but i i sort of feel that that um with with this this |
[998.80 --> 1004.50] framework framework uh in mind we can start talking about more complex ideas and then start thinking |
[1004.50 --> 1009.58] about how are we collaborating across this ecosystem because like one of the problems we were facing and |
[1009.58 --> 1014.10] that's something that you start facing when you're doing full stack javascript is how do you do um |
[1014.10 --> 1019.34] package management for for the front end for the back end and these are like larger issues that are |
[1019.34 --> 1026.14] relevant to the entire um sort of full stack uh javascript community right or ecosystem and not just to |
[1026.14 --> 1030.78] mean we're going to pause the show real quick and give a shout out to our sponsors rackspace |
[1030.78 --> 1036.90] they love open source they dedicate themselves to supporting open source and the developer community |
[1036.90 --> 1041.40] and they're doing that with the changelog they're supporting us they can support open source |
[1041.40 --> 1047.12] because we support open source um and now you can make something awesome on them they they want you |
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[1087.50 --> 1096.36] something awesome and get started today developer.rackspace.com slash dev trial so just out of curiosity |
[1096.36 --> 1103.40] yamas as somebody who is around in the editor wars um which editor is the right one to use with mean |
[1103.40 --> 1116.76] developers um developers prefer different kind of of editors according to uh the way they used to um |
[1116.76 --> 1126.80] um program i think when you maintain um a large code base you would prefer using an ide or um a tool that |
[1126.80 --> 1133.32] allows like a tool that allows you to to dig deeper and and and assist you with with understanding the |
[1133.32 --> 1140.54] complexity of your code and when you write a lot of code like we do uh i i prefer my editors as lean |
[1140.54 --> 1150.04] as possible uh i currently use sublime um sub the the guy writing sublime is awesome um i'm addicted |
[1150.04 --> 1156.24] to multiple characters um so that's that was a joke question you're not supposed to really have |
[1156.24 --> 1162.88] an answer for that that's not fair no no you stepped into a field i i am i'm talking so much about |
[1162.88 --> 1169.04] we're both kind of like editor fanatics and we're like totally interested in any new editor that comes |
[1169.04 --> 1174.20] around because part of us does feel that there is some sort of a gap between what we need as developers |
[1174.20 --> 1178.98] when we're trying to like maintain a full stack application it's sort of getting difficult because |
[1178.98 --> 1183.38] you're you're juggling a lot of balls and and it sort of feels like sometimes you're encumbered by your |
[1183.38 --> 1187.84] editor um and and yeah that's also another conversation we sort of want to have with people |
[1187.84 --> 1194.20] gotcha so actually uh to kind of ask this question uh i think it was rowey did you say you came from |
[1194.20 --> 1201.08] like php land yeah mostly yeah so one of the things to get started i mean specifically in like node land |
[1201.08 --> 1206.28] and with you know full stack javascript is the ability to learn and the ability to learn like the |
[1206.28 --> 1211.70] new environment and all that um what was it like for you and what what is it how does mean kind of |
[1211.70 --> 1218.22] help people when they're getting started in in node land so so my experience was that um everything |
[1218.22 --> 1226.04] requires a lot of experimentation um and well once you get the gist of uh you know how javascript works |
[1226.04 --> 1232.26] in its core um once you start understanding that not everything is synchronous um everything sort of |
[1232.26 --> 1237.38] starts making more sense so i had a rough time starting out um and i didn't have a whole lot of |
[1237.38 --> 1241.66] documentation on node because i started playing with it when it was like still not not really around |
[1241.66 --> 1249.18] um as a as a production uh framework at least um and what we're trying to do again is like sort of uh |
[1249.18 --> 1255.40] with mean is sort of start with uh frameworks that are already well known um already uh have a community |
[1255.40 --> 1262.66] and some sort of uh a well a good documentation um with them and we we really tried with mean js to |
[1262.66 --> 1267.58] expand our own documentation and sort of make it easy for you as a developer to start um fiddling with |
[1267.58 --> 1272.74] javascript because with mean because again if you're a javascript developer um and even if you're not a |
[1272.74 --> 1279.28] javascript developer it's not very complicated um whatever is happening on the on the service side is |
[1279.28 --> 1284.90] really quite simple it's a model and and some routes and the stuff that's go and and that's obviously |
[1284.90 --> 1292.48] like uh really simplifying the the picture but but in terms of what you need to uh know it's it's it's very |
[1292.48 --> 1299.14] very limited um and and and the whole and and the fact that we chose these popular stacks kind of uh |
[1299.14 --> 1304.20] created this this weird effect that like our community support is sort of built in and we don't |
[1304.20 --> 1310.90] really need to invest in uh supporting each of the components on its own but rather we can only um |
[1310.90 --> 1316.36] sort of interact with issues that are pertaining to the stack itself and the way you you connect these |
[1316.36 --> 1322.60] parts together so that sort of makes it easier to to sort of document and and solve issues and so on |
[1322.60 --> 1327.98] and so forth yeah unique part of your documentation with mean js is like if you read through it the |
[1327.98 --> 1333.42] first you know i don't know 10 lines of the documentation are like go read mongo's documentation |
[1333.42 --> 1337.74] here's a manual to use go read expresses and documentation here's a guide to use go look at |
[1337.74 --> 1343.72] angular js here's a guide and then like once you get past all that um right it's really just like |
[1343.72 --> 1349.50] you can read the whole documentation in one sitting and so uh you'll obviously want to yeah you'll want |
[1349.50 --> 1354.62] to come back to it and reference things but it's neat because you guys do benefit this is an odd type |
[1354.62 --> 1361.06] of a project because as much as you are depending on other uh pieces of open source you're also |
[1361.06 --> 1367.88] benefiting from the other pieces of open source so one of the so the upside is you know as that piece |
[1367.88 --> 1373.26] as mongo progresses you guys progress with it as express progresses you guys you know progress with it |
[1373.26 --> 1380.10] what happens when something ships to mongo's you know like latest release and it and it causes a |
[1380.10 --> 1386.66] conflict in your in mean js like how does this work so actually this just happened because um express is |
[1386.66 --> 1396.94] about to release their the fourth version um you kind of need to to stay uh alert to those changes |
[1396.94 --> 1402.74] this is this is our mission like our mission is to to support the different changes in the different |
[1402.74 --> 1412.74] packages we try to make those packages um as lean as possible um um we try to use uh packages that are |
[1412.74 --> 1421.94] widely supported and not just like um a niche packages that might be uh deserted in a few um uh months or so |
[1421.94 --> 1429.78] uh so we have to keep up with those changes and offer uh an update to the uh to the stack itself um |
[1429.78 --> 1439.96] um updates are in general uh a huge issue when when you offer a stack that is built from uh uh different |
[1439.96 --> 1448.32] components and you don't you don't wrap it like in a in a sealed uh module so any update you you do |
[1448.32 --> 1453.66] uh must be supported by the community and that's what we try to do with mean js we try to give it |
[1453.66 --> 1459.52] a more modular approach so we can update it without uh affecting or breaking your project |
[1459.52 --> 1467.90] um that's one of the biggest um issues we have we we we're yeah i think i think we're not we're not |
[1467.90 --> 1475.04] even trying to really solve these bigger issues um i think with with projects like uh jsfs and that may |
[1475.04 --> 1481.10] may or may not happen uh we might again create enough discussion about the issues that that that |
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