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[654.58 --> 658.76] so on that point of view i think that that open source is also just the continuation of you know |
[658.76 --> 663.04] dev ops or some of the other you know keywords that you have probably heard so you mentioned |
[663.04 --> 668.14] balmer and as we all know you guys have had a change in leadership here recently uh is the timing |
[668.14 --> 675.80] there uh coincidental uh or was that change in leadership kind of leading to this this this new |
[675.80 --> 683.60] stuff uh this rich again um i do not think it was coincidental uh if we look at the fact that um |
[683.60 --> 692.28] dotnet supporting linux and office supporting ios happened in the same year um i think uh that's |
[692.28 --> 700.98] clearly showing that we're trying to reach out to um uh you know to our customers and provide products |
[700.98 --> 709.22] on the os's where that they're using so uh i i think you're just seeing a shift in strategy |
[709.22 --> 716.90] at a fairly broad um level in microsoft i have to give you guys credit too because when you're |
[716.90 --> 724.56] embracing it you guys really are embracing open source um on github uh mit licensed stuff taking |
[724.56 --> 728.78] pull requests you know i always compare apple and microsoft when i'm looking at strategies because |
[728.78 --> 733.14] i just enjoy watching you guys do things apple's still kind of just like throwing their open source |
[733.14 --> 739.36] over the wall and just like here you go you know they're not really embracing it as a thing as much |
[739.36 --> 744.76] but you guys seem like you're really going for it yeah i think that's something that we that we |
[744.76 --> 748.26] learned over the years is i mean my team in particular we did open source or should say |
[748.26 --> 753.12] source open for a lot longer than uh than just the you know the current open source strategy like |
[753.12 --> 757.00] there was the managed sensibility framework that we published on code black a while ago |
[757.00 --> 761.82] but the the challenges that we always had that we basically did that you know source open where we |
[761.82 --> 766.50] basically give you the source but then there is a lot of challenges around us keeping the community |
[766.50 --> 770.68] around alive because it's not really the real thing might we give you like every once in a while |
[770.68 --> 774.92] the drop of the source and so the one thing that we learned over the years is that first of all |
[774.92 --> 779.82] that's just not sustainable from our side because if you think of microsoft as a company that delivers |
[779.82 --> 785.66] um uh you know a bunch of products then you always have these massive release cadences where |
[785.66 --> 790.78] you know towards the end game you are focusing on fixing bugs stabilization all of that and then the |
[790.78 --> 795.38] first thing that you stop doing is you know things that don't directly contribute value towards that |
[795.38 --> 799.68] goal and so from our point of view like maintaining an open source site somewhere as a |
[799.68 --> 804.58] as a site project it's just not maintainable it's the first thing that gets it's cut when you know |
[804.58 --> 810.12] people have to focus so the only way you can sustain open source is if if what you see on github is the |
[810.12 --> 814.26] real deal because that's something we can't cut right like when we stabilize then you know and we have to |
[814.26 --> 820.04] commit to the same repository everybody sees then there's really no option for us uh to discontinue that |
[820.04 --> 824.12] work and i think that's also something that the community really appreciates because i think in open |
[824.12 --> 828.64] source in general and i think that's true in any community it's definitely true in marriages right that |
[828.64 --> 833.84] people don't want to get surprised right you basically want to have a trusted relationship |
[833.84 --> 838.14] with each other so if you get the impression that microsoft is holding something back because we go |
[838.14 --> 842.88] dark for half a year like even if we don't do anything bad it still has this very bad taste of us |
[842.88 --> 846.70] not telling me everything right and i think that's something that i think we learned very you know |
[846.70 --> 851.56] the hard way over the years and uh but i totally agree with your sentiment that you know i was a customer |
[851.56 --> 856.58] for a long time i pitched about microsoft like everybody else and uh one thing i realized internally is that |
[856.58 --> 860.58] you know things if they change they really change i mean people really embrace it and then go |
[860.58 --> 864.92] wholeheartedly with that vision and that's why i'm so excited about open source because i think |
[864.92 --> 870.52] you know we normally have like any way to to back off from that like now we are all in and i think that |
[870.52 --> 875.56] this trend will continue i like the term all in too especially for you because like you said when you |
[875.56 --> 883.42] make a turn or you make a change it tends to be pretty drastic or you know it's not an easy shift you |
[883.42 --> 889.26] sort of make quick decisions when it comes to to big turns like that one thing you said that i'd like |
[889.26 --> 894.06] to camp out on for just a second was the flip side of open source i never really thought about and maybe |
[894.06 --> 898.96] this is a new term to me or just a new term in general but source open versus open source being |
[898.96 --> 904.86] pretty much the exact opposite where open source is focused on uh like jared said not pulling an apple |
[904.86 --> 908.94] where you're just throwing the code over the over the wall and hoping for the best and not really |
[908.94 --> 914.16] embracing the community and where can you talk a little bit about that shift particularly with |
[914.16 --> 919.22] source open versus open source and maybe i guess maybe you've already done that to a degree but |
[919.22 --> 924.44] feel free to ramble on source open versus open source for a bit do you have any thoughts on that varoon |
[924.44 --> 931.06] yeah i think we had a reference sources up there for a while they were under the reference source |
[931.06 --> 939.08] license um but it was you know basically one way so what we this time it's very different we have |
[939.08 --> 945.02] resources up there and there's a lot of activity and we are basically two way it's basically the real |
[945.02 --> 950.40] way i mean what you were referring with apple is probably what we were doing earlier but the current |
[950.40 --> 957.80] effort is really about getting our stuff open source in a meaningful way and as you know your question |
[957.80 --> 962.84] earlier the mood in the dotnet team and you know how we're looking at it you know i i would actually |
[962.84 --> 969.70] put it this way there's a lot of excitement within the team and that's reflecting on the repo uh |
[969.70 --> 975.04] basically every day we have you know stand-ups and hallway meetings and stuff like that and chats |
[975.04 --> 980.32] uh and everyone is super excited like we are talking about you know what's the next full request |
[980.32 --> 985.56] coming and we're discussing about those and having a good time about it i think all of that is kind of |
[985.56 --> 991.16] reflecting on you know github the all the energy in the team the team in general is very excited about |
[991.16 --> 999.10] it excited about the open source aspect what um when you say team varoon um beyond you rich and emo |
[999.10 --> 1006.16] um who is who is the dotnet team you know how how big is that i mean obviously it's probably large but |
[1006.16 --> 1013.14] you know how give the audience a an example of how big your team is and the excitement size well i'll just |
[1013.14 --> 1021.70] cover the team size we have a lot of people working on like on dotnet in general um in the division so |
[1021.70 --> 1027.58] we're in developer division and so we have a ton of people working on you know visual studio on dotnet |
[1027.58 --> 1033.34] framework on compilers but i think your question is more maybe the size of the team that is working |
[1033.34 --> 1039.98] on dotnet core itself that's certainly well with the team that released the framework libraries that |
[1039.98 --> 1045.80] you saw there's tens of people that are working on that and then the runtime will come later there's |
[1045.80 --> 1052.32] some other set of tens of people working on that uh so all told i think you're probably looking at |
[1052.32 --> 1058.28] about 100 people working on uh the code base that's going to ship in um that's going to be available on |
[1058.28 --> 1064.26] github that's actually a lot of investment if you're wanting to you know make it bet on dotnet |
[1064.26 --> 1070.02] um you can see that there's a lot of people working at microsoft to provide you with a quality code base |
[1070.02 --> 1077.16] so let's talk about exactly which pieces of code are out there right now because let's face it y'all |
[1077.16 --> 1082.90] have a lot of software over there and there's distinctions between dotnet core dotnet framework |
[1082.90 --> 1088.18] entity framework so on and so forth if you go to your guys's microsoft's github page which i think is |
[1088.18 --> 1095.36] just microsoft dot github dot io um tons of repos kind of highlight the big ones and kind of show us |
[1095.36 --> 1101.74] tell us maybe what's not there yet well yeah so basically if you look at dotnet core what you see |
[1101.74 --> 1107.50] today on github is a very small number of libraries we have immutable collections we have the metadata |
[1107.50 --> 1113.32] reader that rostin is using we have xml and we have our vector library that uh enables sim the |
[1113.32 --> 1117.82] intrinsics and you know the question is why did we pick these four and not some other random slice and |
[1117.82 --> 1122.76] the the the reason is as i said earlier like from forest number one priority is to make open source |
[1122.76 --> 1127.76] real is that the thing that you see on the website is the thing that we can actually build uh ourselves |
[1127.76 --> 1133.34] and actually you know use the you know the actual source to deliver the the actual product and so |
[1133.34 --> 1137.48] there's some engineering initiative that we have to do internally to decouple our our built |
[1137.48 --> 1142.22] infrastructure from from the libraries themselves and as you can imagine like dev dev is super large and |
[1142.22 --> 1147.40] we have you know tens 10 years of like you know code base uh and built infrastructure that we have to |
[1147.40 --> 1150.96] decouple in order to make that work so that these four libraries that are out there on github right |
[1150.96 --> 1155.78] now and dotnet core are essentially just you know the libraries that you know we could easily extract |
[1155.78 --> 1160.26] because they're the you know the most recent ones we did um xml is certainly not the most recent one |
[1160.26 --> 1164.28] but it was right you know one of our or few libraries that we could just say okay this is the one we can |
[1164.28 --> 1169.50] decouple very quickly and so what you will see over over time is that um the entire dotnet core stack |
[1169.50 --> 1175.08] which basically includes the runtime includes the bcl layer includes networking uh and uh also |
[1175.08 --> 1180.66] includes hpl.net on top as the app model will be open sourced and so as right now as i said there's |
[1180.66 --> 1185.34] a smaller segment in it so you can basically watch us as we add more libraries and i think you know |
[1185.34 --> 1189.16] over the next couple of weeks there's like i think three or four libraries being scheduled for being |
[1189.16 --> 1194.14] added uh console is being one of them data flow is another and so that you know there's certainly more |
[1194.14 --> 1199.16] growth if you look at the other repos as i said that if you look at dotnet core it's you know one way to |
[1199.16 --> 1205.04] think about the core fx repo is it's essentially the bcl and so the bcl is basically the libraries |
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