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[1737.92 --> 1743.52] find out kind of thing but um we have like zero insight into that i'm seeing now at the bottom of |
[1743.52 --> 1749.76] that page there's other hype microsoft github orgs and you guys have man double digits yeah we actually |
[1749.76 --> 1756.56] have like 20 or 30 or 40 orgs we're actually trying to move more people over to the microsoft org to make |
[1756.56 --> 1765.68] it a little bit easier to navigate but um the thing um is our work is actually in the dotnet org |
[1765.68 --> 1771.20] gotcha yeah that's where dotnet core lives uh actually verun can speak to to this piece what |
[1771.20 --> 1780.72] the dotnet org is and why um dotnet core is in there right so basically dotnet repo is actually the |
[1780.72 --> 1786.16] repo for dotnet foundation the open source effort um you know the open source community effort |
[1786.16 --> 1794.24] around dotnet in general with the community so dotnet core became open source it joined the |
[1794.24 --> 1800.72] community as well dotnet foundation community so they were setting up a new repo um so basically |
[1800.72 --> 1808.00] uh you know we had a lively discussion and they actually set it up the repo directly in the foundation |
[1808.00 --> 1815.60] so that org uh in the github you know organization is dotnet foundation organization and dotnet core |
[1816.16 --> 1823.68] has joined uh the organization and is basically doing all the open source work in the open and you know |
[1823.68 --> 1830.32] rich can talk about how mono is also in there um you know basically actively participating in the |
[1830.32 --> 1837.36] discussions and the efforts yeah what vroom was mentioning is there we have a dotnet foundation |
[1837.36 --> 1847.20] dot org website and there's some forums on that at forums dot dotnet foundation dot org and for those |
[1847.20 --> 1852.64] of you um who know about dotnet open source you'll probably know about the mono project and so we're |
[1852.64 --> 1861.36] very much um collaborating with that project both in a code sense as well as um collaborating together |
[1861.36 --> 1867.04] and talking together in these forums and if you take a look at the forums you'll probably get a sense of that |
[1867.36 --> 1875.60] okay and for those who are unaware can you uh give a brief rundown of mono sure mono is essentially um |
[1876.40 --> 1885.60] a clone of um the dotnet that um microsoft built it's i don't know the exact date of its inception |
[1886.24 --> 1894.08] but um it's in the early 2000s for sure and uh it's headed by a guy named uh miguel de casa |
[1894.08 --> 1901.36] who actually had worked on some other open source projects i think he'd worked on the gnome uh window |
[1901.36 --> 1910.08] manager oh i'm correct on that point and um anyway it's it's a project that uh a lot of people have |
[1910.08 --> 1917.20] used um more recently it's actually been used to target ios and android as part of the uh a tool set |
[1917.20 --> 1925.44] built by xamarin who miguel actually works for he's actually a founder of that company and um |
[1925.44 --> 1931.20] the thing i think is really interesting right now is microsoft like the dotnet team at microsoft and |
[1931.20 --> 1939.28] the mono project are now working closely together to um kind of deliver coherent and consistent dotnet |
[1939.28 --> 1947.04] implementations for all um dotnet users on the planet essentially and we didn't quite have that |
[1947.04 --> 1953.92] kind of an arrangement before so uh i think it's really really positive and uh you'll see that i |
[1953.92 --> 1959.52] think you'll really see that come together probably next year right now we're just kind of trying to get |
[1959.52 --> 1966.64] everything laid out you know this news of us open sourcing is also new to miguel so i think by the time |
[1966.64 --> 1972.48] we get say to you know the middle of next year i think we'll have a much more a much better sense |
[1972.48 --> 1976.80] of what it is that the two projects are doing together we're very much you know still trying |
[1976.80 --> 1981.60] to figure that out that's awesome i mean i think the cross-platform aspect of this is going to be a |
[1981.60 --> 1988.48] huge win for developers everywhere i fact checked your uh your your gnome there and you drilled it uh |
[1988.48 --> 1993.60] okay awesome so just uh while you're talking there i was like i looked it up yeah yeah i do i mean we |
[1993.60 --> 1998.80] we know miguel personally so uh but i just wanted to yeah make sure that was correct |
[2000.72 --> 2005.44] can we uh maybe camp out there for just a sec on the on the cross-platform thing and maybe just the |
[2005.44 --> 2009.20] the fork thing and the open source thing i think it's sort of the the summary of what we've been |
[2009.20 --> 2014.96] talking about for the last 20-30 minutes but um you know what's the true goal here you know varoon |
[2014.96 --> 2020.72] you mentioned earlier uh cross-platform as a is a nice advantage of of going open source |
[2020.72 --> 2026.40] um it mentioned embracing the community embracing actually open source versus source open |
[2026.96 --> 2031.52] what's the what do you think what can you share about the true goal the overall goal of |
[2032.16 --> 2037.92] open sourcing.net core versus keeping a closed source and not embracing community |
[2039.12 --> 2045.12] so i think you meant me not varoon but that's okay um so i think from the the other the other |
[2045.12 --> 2054.88] um maybe i have a light sound so soon was it was it mo yeah oh sorry you know you take it i think the |
[2055.84 --> 2061.52] one of the one of the challenges is as i said is that you know microsoft is as which mentioned now |
[2061.52 --> 2065.92] certainly going you know out of more devices i think the the general realization that everybody |
[2065.92 --> 2070.96] in the industry is now uh making is that you know there's no longer like true monoculture so |
[2070.96 --> 2075.68] there there there's many like you know device ranges and like they all have certain market |
[2075.68 --> 2081.68] segments but in order to to be successful uh as far as an application experience skills those span |
[2081.68 --> 2085.68] devices now right like you can even if you're say even if microsoft would say you want to focus on |
[2085.68 --> 2090.32] windows the the reality is there's so many other devices and experiences out there that you kind of |
[2090.32 --> 2095.12] have to integrate into that's expected from an app standpoint that basically requires you to to |
[2095.12 --> 2100.08] support not just one thing you can still say as an application developer you know i provide you know |
[2100.08 --> 2104.48] the best experience or you know most of my features in a certain in a certain vertical but you know |
[2104.48 --> 2109.60] the integration points are the ones that you still have to you know deal with somehow and uh dot |
[2109.60 --> 2115.92] net was pretty much from the get-go designed to become to to have a single experience on a variety of |
[2115.92 --> 2120.48] scenarios so if you look at the original design of win forms and web forms for example somebody really |
[2120.48 --> 2124.32] made sure that they are pretty much the same no i would argue that for that that was a mistake |
[2124.32 --> 2129.04] because it's not an event-based paradigm but that you know in the spirit of making things similar i think |
[2129.04 --> 2133.84] that that's still very much uh an important scenario for for for many people because if you think from |
[2133.84 --> 2137.76] a just on an epic from an architectural layering perspective there's always pieces of your code |
[2137.76 --> 2142.48] that you want to reuse across the devices right some business logic you know some you know some |
[2142.48 --> 2148.40] logic that does something in your app and and you know from it from a scenario standpoint dot net |
[2148.40 --> 2152.48] wants to enable those scenarios and that that has to that certainly means that we have to go |
[2153.04 --> 2157.52] effectively where the app has to go and in today's world as i said like there's mac there's ios there's |
[2157.52 --> 2162.00] android there's there's linux and so we you have to enable the stack to go there from that from |
[2162.00 --> 2166.64] that point of view i think that open source is really about increasing the breadth of dot net |
[2167.36 --> 2172.48] and making it easier for people to just stick to one technology if they if they chose to do that but |
[2172.48 --> 2176.24] you know but they'd always had great availability with native code so if you want to do something |
[2176.24 --> 2181.60] else uh you know providing a native ui for example uh and then you know call into dot net or the other |
[2181.60 --> 2185.92] way around there's certainly stories for that as well so when we talk about cross-platform i just one |
[2185.92 --> 2190.24] question here for the listeners who are thinking like okay so what does this thing work on what |
[2190.24 --> 2196.16] can i if i'm hacking today could i pull it down start working on it today what platforms are currently |
[2196.16 --> 2201.84] supported by dot net dot net core dot net uh framework framework that's the word i was looking for |
[2201.84 --> 2210.24] the other f word the good f word uh i could take that one that's rich um right now both dot net core and |
[2210.24 --> 2217.36] dot net framework support only windows so just to back up a little bit we've we've clearly stated that |
[2217.36 --> 2225.68] um for dot net core we're going to um uh support it on mac and linux as well and so we kind of had a |
[2225.68 --> 2232.56] decision to make which was should we wait until we've done all the engineering work at which point |
[2232.56 --> 2239.36] we support linux and mac as well as windows and then open source or should we open source with our |
[2239.36 --> 2247.76] windows implementation start to build a community and then build the uh linux and mac support in the |
[2247.76 --> 2254.88] open and so as you can guess we chose this latter option and i i like that option yeah i really feel |
[2254.88 --> 2260.00] like it was the right option especially given the response that we saw i think it's just been |
[2260.56 --> 2266.40] hugely validated that it was the right option that's essentially what we're doing so we do not yet have the |
[2266.40 --> 2271.68] the linux and mac support but we're uh we've started already started working on it um we have |
[2271.68 --> 2277.68] people who that's their main job is building linux and mac support into dot net core and uh you're going |
[2277.68 --> 2283.60] to see that um start to arrive pretty soon now it's it's it's not going to all appear on one day |
[2284.48 --> 2287.76] it's going to be very iterative is there one that's first before the other |
[2289.20 --> 2296.32] that's a good question i don't think we've made a plan uh quite like that yet well what i would say is |
[2296.40 --> 2299.76] in general like if you look at how dot net works i mean there's certainly things that are |
[2299.76 --> 2303.92] innovative platform independent right i mean all the collection libraries like immutable collections |
[2303.92 --> 2308.88] probably works today as it is already on any environment you know things that interact with |
[2308.88 --> 2313.44] the operating system like file systems and other things are obviously a bit more involved and then |
[2313.44 --> 2319.20] as you go to the lower stack uh you know we have this very you know thin layer that basically ties the |
[2319.20 --> 2324.48] the actual framework towards runtime and so you know on our side we basically have two different |
[2324.48 --> 2329.44] runtime strategies today we have a legit based runtime and we have an ahead of time compiled runtime |
[2329.44 --> 2333.76] and so we also make investments to make the runtimes available cross-clad but that's obviously |
[2333.76 --> 2338.48] something that is more like an all-in or nothing because you need the entire runtime uh up and running |
[2338.48 --> 2343.60] before you can actually run any managed code so there's certainly some um you know some investment |
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