text stringlengths 0 1.62k |
|---|
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** Exactly, guess it. We look back at yesterday's weather and we realize "Oh, that's how it's been turning out so far." It's been roughly two years between major releases and roughly six months between part releases, so let's just make that the policy, since that's what we're doing anyway. So... |
On top of that, of course, Ruby 2.2 came out, and Rails 5 is going to be a Ruby 2.2+ exclusive. So Rails is gonna do its part to bring along the Rails community to use the latest version of Ruby. |
**Jerod Santo:** Does Basecamp track master, or is it sitting on 4.2? |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** We have new developments for Basecamp that are tracking master. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, okay... |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** We'll see how that stuff plays out. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, you're invited back on the show whenever you want, David. There's several offshoots to this conversation I'm sure we could have gone down, but we've been trying the best we can to cling to this 10+ years of Rails, and... I mean, in 10+ years you've got so much to cover that we really had to re... |
One of the things that I kind of wanted to talk through just real quick was just looking back at these ten years, today thank you for going through some of the - either accidentally or in preparation for this call - you know, mentioning 3,800 people contributed to the core Rails framework; you talked about how many pul... |
One specific thing that I think I wanna ask you before we go into a couple closing questions - and I think it's because you share so much wisdom because of this 10+ years, is you mentioned Node, you mentioned io.js earlier... We've recently had Mikeal Rogers on, who heads up io.js, among many other people. We've invite... |
**Jerod Santo:** Joyent. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, sorry, Joyent, not Node. My bad. You know what I'm talking about. But we've invited him to come on the show and talk about the Node Foundation, what that's gonna be like... But what advice can you give that community as it relates to what you've learned from the Rails and Merb merge, and just ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Alternative. |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** Complement, or alternative, yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So what advice can you share to that community, before we close another couple other questions we have for you? |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** \[01:27:52.16\] First of all, good luck. I think it's incredibly tough. Even just the -- I don't know... Spat, perhaps you could call it, at the hype of the Merb and Rails stuff. It was tough, and that was a very -- that included... I mean, yeah, there were two communities somewhat, but th... |
So to think, like, just the amount of corporate, enterprisy stakes that have been placed in the Node camp - I cannot even imagine the complexity of that. It's kind of like trying to peace broker -- like, "Oh, let's have universal peace across Africa. Let's invite all the countries, sit down at the table and we'll figur... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So good luck is what you're saying. So you're predicting potentially that io and Node will continue to be forked. |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** I think that that is the most likely outcome, yes. And again, I don't have any particular insight into any of the organizations, short of observations of the -- I mean, I've gotta laugh just a little bit, when the press release (I think it was from the Node Foundation) came out and you've ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Diplomat. |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** Yeah, that was the word I was looking for - is a better diplomat than I would ever be. I mean, it just seems like such a hard intractable problem, I just don't see where the solution is gonna come from there. But also, it's not the end of the world. Obviously, Node and io, they have great ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I think it's not a technology problem, it's a community problem they're dealing with... Not so much a technology problem at all, right? |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** Oh, absolutely. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's about -- as you said earlier, you slapped yourself when you said "I want", and it's really about desires. Both camps have different desires and both camps have different places where the money is coming from, which sort of -- so let me ask you this one quick question and summarize that... So yo... |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** Well, that's not real advice, is it? \[laughter\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, of course, that's your response to the question. |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** My advice is that there's not much I can offer to this. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right, okay. |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** You're gonna be more likely to get advice out of a U.N. diplomatic envoy or something, and how they've dealt with the intractable problems of world peace, than you are with getting it out from my experiences. They're just not even at the same scale. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well that's something to make sure of, you're not really giving advice, you're just sort of "Meh, I can't really give much, so good luck." |
**Jerod Santo:** Commenting, yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay. |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** It's accepting the limitations of my abilities, and my abilities to solve a problem at that epic scale are truly limited. It's kind of like saying, "Hey, you once broke up a schoolyard bully fight... Could you help out with the Palestinians and the Jews in Israel? They could really use som... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[01:31:43.24\] Well, let's talk about some things you are qualified. We've got two core topics real quick; I don't think they should be long at all... Let's keep them as short as we can, because we're really getting -- basically, we're coming close to being over-time, but two things we can't leave ... |
I'm just pulling some quotes from recent tweets from you, so they're your own words. "Rails is obligation-free software" is something you've said before. You \[unintelligible 01:32:29.16\] you've had a couple conversations recently, but you've got a clear opinion on getting paid to work on open source. Can you kind of ... |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** Sure. First of all, my opinions stem from observing open source software largely within the web community. Some of the opinions that I have do not extend to other domains of software, do not extend to other aspects of software even. Some aspects of software and some domains of software act... |
I'd pull out security bounties as one example that has worked quite well - paying people to find vulnerabilities in your software; it's an area where if you did not pay those people, those vulnerabilities often would not be found. You're not taking something away that otherwise would have happened. |
I think a lot of where I went sour on paid open source was watching much of the consulting business that sprung up around certain particularly JavaScript frameworks, and the complexity that came with that... And seeing what happened to API design when the API designers were removed from working on things themselves and... |
There's a great book called Punished by Rewards (by Alfie Kohn) that deals with what happens to intrinsic motivation once you introduce extrinsic benefits, sticks and carrots. And the answer is it is not pretty. Often times money does corrupt things; it also facilitates things and it also has upsides, but being blind t... |
In certain domains, again, as I said, it doesn't matter. If somebody's finding a security hole, do you really care whether they were intrinsically motivated or extrinsically motivated? Perhaps not. If you care about keeping a framework like Rails going for 10+ years and not turning into consultingware, you do care. I c... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right, full-time. Getting paid full-time to work on it. |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** Yeah. Aaron Patterson (tenderlove) has been paid to work on open source software for quite a while, and Rails is so much better because he is helping us, and being part of it, not just helping. He's an integral part of Rails today. So that's good. With all respect to Aaron, I don't think R... |
\[01:36:08.10\] I think that there are certain aspects of the professional open sourceness that work really well, and Aaron has done a superb job at improving implementation, making things more efficient, making them better, making them clearer on the internal side of things. |
Dealing with API design, which is a large part - and perhaps the majority part of what makes Rails Rails, the DNA of Rails is the API design; that is an aspect I feel fares quite poorly in professional open source context, where somebody is being paid full-time to work on it. |
**Jerod Santo:** What changes when you're being paid with your API design? Just because you have to answer to somebody, or...? |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** There's that; there's the fact that you get removed from sort of extracting problems. You're note extracting your own problems anymore, you're doing things on behalf of others. |
**Jerod Santo:** You're isolated... |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** Well, I don't know if you're isolated, but it's just -- it's different to... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Motivations change. |
**David Heinemeier Hansson:** Motivations change, but even the specific of the design changes. When you're making API's where you're imagining what somebody somewhere might want to use is maybe different than when you're extracting what you actually did use and what you actually did need for that particular application... |
I'd say the majority of -- actually not the majority, all of the people who work in Rails core, they are professional open sourcers to some extent, in the sense that they're being paid by their company to also put contributions into Rails, at least some of the time. |
Subsets and Splits
No community queries yet
The top public SQL queries from the community will appear here once available.