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• Daniel's employment history and its relation to curl development |
• Mozilla's support for curl and Daniel's work with the company |
• Reflection on 17 years of project development and staying power |
• Open source projects can be challenging due to harsh feedback from users. |
• Daniel Stenberg recalls being surprised to learn that Facebook uses curl and the impact of seeing a curl command line on a billboard in Silicon Valley. |
• Being included in various distributions and the Apple operating system was a significant moment for Stenberg. |
• He has a favorite programming hero, Richard Stallman, due to his significant contributions to open source. |
• Stenberg is currently employed by Mozilla, where he works on curl part-time. |
• He encourages the community to help with bug reports, reproduce bug reports, and try out patches. |
• He has a to-do list of 20-60 items that could be added to curl. |
• If he had free time, he would like to work on a library or networking project. |
• Daniel Stenberg's work habits and preference for focusing on his existing projects |
• His history and achievements, including working on the curl library and having his code used by major companies like Facebook |
• His approach to work and motivation, including taking time to appreciate his accomplishments before returning to work |
• Upcoming episodes of the podcast, including a conversation with Steve Newcomb about the Famous interface library framework |
• Daniel's online presence and how to follow him on Twitter and visit his website |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Alright everybody, we're back. We've got Daniel Stenberg on the line. 17 years of curl, and more; we'll talk about more. Jerod, you're on the call... What's going on, man? |
**Jerod Santo:** Hey, man. How are we doing? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** We are excellent. Daniel, how are you, man? It's good to have you on the call. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** I'm good. It's a bit late here, but I'm relaxed, sitting here, leaning back in my sofa, in my living room. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There you go. So you're in Stockholm, or not too far from Stockholm, Sweden, right? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Right. Just outside of Stockholm. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What time is it there then? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** It's 10 PM. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's 3 PM here... That's not bad. Small difference, seven hours. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So Daniel, not too long back you posted this awesome post, "17 years of curl." And for those who are catching up, if you haven't used curl before, maybe you haven't been on the command line enough... But this is a big deal; this is 17 years of a tried and true tool that's been a part of Linux foreve... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Sure. I'm Daniel, I'm in Sweden, I've been working on curl and with curl for a very long time (17 years), and I basically started when I wasn't really aware of any alternatives, so I started writing out my own tool... And of course, it was a small thing back then, and I only did a few \[unintelligi... |
\[04:25\] It was just a little project, and there have been a few core contributors over the years that have kind of stuck with the project and been around for a long time... But it has remained a fairly small project, developer-wise and so on. So it's low-key, no big -- it's not much of a bureaucracy or big processes ... |
That's what I've been doing on curl for a very long time, and I've been working here in Stockholm, Sweden as a consultant and doing embedded programming, basically, through my career, mostly... And just a couple of years ago, actually more like a year ago, I was looking around for a new gig here in Stockholm, and then ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So when Ilya Grigorik was on the show - Iliya works at Google, and he works... Where does he work at? Does he work on Chrome directly, Jerod? Is that what Ilya works on? |
**Jerod Santo:** He's an internet plumber. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right, that's what I was getting at. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. His job is to make the internet faster. I'm not sure if that's just on Chrome, or what else at all it entails, but... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Sure. Would you say that's a fair assumption of what you might call yourself as well, Daniel, internet plumber? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Maybe... \[laughter\] I would rather call myself a network hacker, or whatever... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, that does sound cooler... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** ...because I work on network stacks. I work on the Firefox networking stack and I work on curl, mostly. I work on a bunch of other projects too, but those are my two primary projects I work on. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** This kind of takes us back to 1998. Now, I have to admit something - this will share my age a bit, but I graduated in 1997, and you released curl the spring of 1998... So I was about 18, barely 18. How old were you then, and take us back to the spring of 1998 if you can. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah, in the spring of 1998 I released curl, and I then renamed the former project that I was working on, and called it curl. Because the project I had been working on before that - originally I called it httpget. And I started that in 1996. And then I added support for FTP as well, and then it sup... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** A bad name. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah, that too. So then I renamed it again, a third time, and I called it curl, in 1998. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So since 1998 it's been curl ever since. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There you go. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[07:47\] So I first got into computers around 2000, and I first got into Linux and the command line 2002-2003. And curl was one of those tools for me personally -- you know when certain things predate you? It's almost like they always existed... You know, something like the core utils; you're not even... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** No, of course not. It was just a small project. I did it for my own site originally, and then I also found out that there were some other guys who also enjoyed it and wanted some features... But there is no point in time when you suddenly realize that it's just a constant evolution. So it's just on... |
Of course, I think I did a lot of -- looking back, I think I did a lot of correct decisions, and perhaps I was also kind of right in time... So it was the right thing at the right time, and so on, but it wasn't really on purpose. It just happened. |
**Jerod Santo:** What were some of those right decisions? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Well, I would say that the whole HTTP and internet and the web was kind of on the rise at that time, so it made sense to come at that point with a good HTTP/2 that could help -- with a 2 that is more low-level HTTP stuff than for example wget, which is more getting stuff, and curl is a tool to do m... |
**Jerod Santo:** Is wget like your nemesis? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah, at least \[unintelligible 00:10:11.10\] \[laughter\] I like to give that impression at least... |
**Jerod Santo:** It's more fun to think of it that way, right? Even for me, it's fun to think that the curl person and the wget people can't get along... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah, exactly. I kind of like that image, too. |
**Jerod Santo:** Nice. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** And I also think one of the best decisions I did early 2001, when we created the library, the libcurl, which is the core of curl, which then is a way for programs to get to curl abilities, programming-wise... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, so it started off just as a command line tool, and then you said "Well, let's make the core of it a C library." And then the command line tool will use libcurl, and then other people can use libcurl, and that was a huge thing. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Exactly. |
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