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[264.38 --> 272.84] a back uh story on on core os itself age you know what is it what is it for that kind of thing |
[272.84 --> 281.52] sure so uh we shipped our first release of core os in august of 2013 um and and at the time you know |
[281.52 --> 287.30] core os is a lightweight linux os that updates itself um and i can get into why that's important |
[287.30 --> 293.74] um but you know it's a it's a kind of a rethink on what a server linux operating system should be |
[293.74 --> 299.80] um and we felt that you know the time was right uh to build something like that and and with containers |
[299.80 --> 305.48] emerging as a thing right around the same time you know we've really kind of you know grown into this |
[305.48 --> 311.30] this um you know this set of tools for helping companies build their next generation of of |
[311.30 --> 315.72] infrastructure kind of centered around containers and distributed systems and and and really getting |
[315.72 --> 320.48] security right as well that's one of the things we care a lot about so you guys have a ton of open |
[320.48 --> 327.06] source projects up there at uh github.com slash core os uh at cd i think being the biggest one but is |
[327.06 --> 332.74] is core os itself open source or do you guys have like a proprietary core and then open source |
[332.74 --> 340.96] kind of in the in the ecosystem sure so the way we work um first our team is all open source um |
[340.96 --> 347.12] i'd say zealots because there's really a better word for it uh but our our team is all uh you know |
[347.12 --> 351.44] very strong open source folks i was before my previous company i was at mozilla i was the 12th |
[351.44 --> 355.38] employee at the mozilla foundation and bernan and i actually started working together at this thing |
[355.38 --> 361.48] called the open source lab which ran the servers for apache.org kernel.org mozilla.org kind of all the |
[361.48 --> 367.46] big open source projects so open source is is definitely in our dna and um the way that we |
[367.46 --> 373.34] go to market with all of this stuff is we build open source components which are open source through |
[373.34 --> 378.44] and through we want them to be like the apache 2 web server of whatever they're trying to solve |
[378.44 --> 383.40] and that just ubiquitously used and no company really directly monetizing them um and then to |
[383.40 --> 388.50] have a business to make our efforts sustainable we sell commercial products and those products are |
[388.50 --> 394.24] more full solutions they're end-to-end things that have dashboards and and you know easy to set up and |
[394.24 --> 399.58] it's a full-on product solution and so there's kind of two you know two types of software that |
[399.58 --> 403.44] we build there's all the open source components which are individually useful and reusable and |
[403.44 --> 407.66] vendor neutral and use them however you want and then there's software commercial products that you |
[407.66 --> 412.58] can buy from us um that you know take advantage of of the components that we're building but they are |
[412.58 --> 417.68] they are at the end of the day products that companies go and buy you mentioned brandon uh in there |
[417.68 --> 422.80] brandon phillips uh can you i know he can't be here he i think we might have him on a different show i'm not |
[422.80 --> 426.28] really sure kelly what we she's not really on the call she's listening behind the scenes maybe you |
[426.28 --> 432.02] can say hi kelly hello hey so there's kelly so kelly helped us set up this call uh little funny story |
[432.02 --> 437.40] there she put her phone number in the email i needed to talk to her right away a funny little side chat i |
[437.40 --> 441.92] called her right away and i said hey we got to have alex on the show uh we couldn't wait until like |
[441.92 --> 447.84] late february and we had to have it happen in january so kelly is is uh is awesome she made magic happen |
[447.84 --> 452.40] for us so that's that's good there but brandon was supposed to be on the call at some point but |
[452.40 --> 457.56] can you give like a brief intro of who brandon is and sort of what role he plays uh for the team |
[457.56 --> 466.16] sure brandon is our co-founder and cto um he really is the kind of technical mind behind all this you |
[466.16 --> 471.32] know i'm a pretty technical guy um but but brandon is is what's driving kind of the architecture and |
[471.32 --> 476.58] overall decision making on the on you know on the day-to-day uh technical details of everything |
[476.58 --> 481.22] you do so when you look at for instance and we'll get into this but in rocket if you look at app |
[481.22 --> 486.48] container which is a specification it's almost like an rfc for what a container should be you know |
[486.48 --> 491.26] that's brandon's design kind of coming through and really shining and and uh you know he owns the |
[491.26 --> 497.18] the deep technical side of of the company i guess maybe um to to sort of give some premise to what |
[497.18 --> 505.20] this call is about um you know we like i said we've been watching docker fairly closely we've um |
[505.20 --> 510.78] we've had them on the show to talk about things and stuff like that so we really wanted to to sort |
[510.78 --> 516.00] of just kind of dig into talking about core west talking about containerization you've got your own |
[516.00 --> 520.82] philosophy on it which is where rocket came from and just really drive into that so what's the easiest |
[520.82 --> 529.14] way to open up that conversation sure i mean maybe we can we can talk about um i think first i'd like |
[529.14 --> 532.62] to give a little bit of background on core west overall and why we started building it and i think |
[532.62 --> 538.14] it'll help kind of paint the picture of why rocket is what it is and and why uh you know why we built |
[538.14 --> 542.42] it as an alternative to docker um so maybe we just start with that a little bit of background on core |
[542.42 --> 550.80] west sounds good all right so go for it alex go for it all right go for it |
[550.80 --> 558.54] and so core west um you know after after the acquisition with rack space and you know helping |
[558.54 --> 563.22] rack space build out some different cloud products um you know took a little bit of time off to figure |
[563.22 --> 568.64] out what to work on next and when brandon freed up um you know we we've known each other for a very |
[568.64 --> 574.14] long time and and we looked at sort of you know what do we know best and what what is something we |
[574.14 --> 578.94] could do you know that has good social value as well as could be a good commercial value uh you know |
[578.94 --> 584.32] have good commercial value down the road and and what we looked at was security and we we asked |
[584.32 --> 589.14] ourselves what could we do to fundamentally improve the security of the internet okay kind of a big |
[589.14 --> 593.90] lofty goal yeah you know um but we thought hey if we could build something that could do that then you |
[593.90 --> 598.08] know there's probably some commercial value there and also it's something that you know like us and |
[598.08 --> 603.24] our friends are are well positioned to actually go and sort out too so might as well go for it um and |
[603.24 --> 610.22] and so the key insight uh that that we had is that security at the end of the day is all about |
[610.22 --> 616.48] updates there will always be another vulnerability another patch another issue um you can't harden |
[616.48 --> 622.42] software to be perfect but you can make it easy to update it when there is an issue um and on servers |
[622.42 --> 627.84] i mean servers are like notoriously you know get it running and don't touch it i mean some of the |
[627.84 --> 632.72] most fragile environments out there are these old server infrastructures that you know people um just just |
[632.72 --> 637.08] don't pay attention to anymore but yet that's where all the family jewels are that's where like all of |
[637.08 --> 641.88] our data is it's our social security numbers you know everything is on the server and so we thought |
[641.88 --> 648.26] hey let's build a server that automatically updates and if you talk to any sysadmin this is like a crazy |
[648.26 --> 652.42] idea okay like any any system may be like wait a minute you can't automatically update my server |
[652.42 --> 657.40] you're gonna break everything right um and so we felt this is a perfect thing for a startup to go |
[657.40 --> 661.72] and try to do everybody thinks it's not possible and if it works it unlocks a lot of value |
[661.72 --> 666.82] all right and that value is not just security it's it's you know reliability it's performance |
[666.82 --> 671.88] it's like everything you get by running the latest version of software okay um and so that's really |
[671.88 --> 676.96] where we started um and and and uh that's that's why you know you might have if you read anything |
[676.96 --> 681.20] about core os you you see us message on the updates quite a bit um because we think that that's kind |
[681.20 --> 687.86] of a basic requirement for good security i was gonna say that sounds like a when i heard you say you |
[687.86 --> 692.86] know automatic updating system i just think it sounds awesome and terrible at the exact same time |
[692.86 --> 697.76] so let's talk about how we do it all right it's not uh it's not trivial and it requires a lot of |
[697.76 --> 702.32] changes and that's why core os is quite a bit different than than the existing server os is out |
[702.32 --> 707.98] there today so one of the first things you we need to solve when we want to go update a server is |
[707.98 --> 712.62] is how you package and deploy your applications and one of the main things that breaks when you update |
[712.62 --> 718.58] a server is inter-application dependencies so you go do your patch to heart bleed and fix open ssl |
[718.58 --> 724.36] and it works for your java app but it breaks your other thing that's running on the server um and so |
[724.36 --> 729.96] our our solution to that is every application is packaged with all of its dependencies well what is |
[729.96 --> 736.88] that hey that's a container right and and so core os by design will only run applications inside |
[736.88 --> 743.34] containers containers are our package manager effectively um and so we got very lucky in that |
[743.34 --> 748.18] um you know docker came out around april of 2013 and and when that's we were in the middle of hacking |
[748.18 --> 753.22] on our first versions of core os then and we needed a container runtime that we either built ourselves |
[753.22 --> 757.94] because of you know just filling in the white space or um you know or use something off the shelf |
[757.94 --> 762.56] that that appears to be exactly what we would have built you know if we if we were left to our own |
[762.56 --> 767.98] devices and so that was docker and we released um you know core os with docker in our very first |
[767.98 --> 774.72] release we were the first like kind of docker native operating system uh to come out uh the first |
[774.72 --> 779.96] kind of container native um thing uh to come out and and we did it we did our updates from the very |
[779.96 --> 784.00] beginning so the very first release that we shipped was the one that we could update because we could |
[784.00 --> 787.84] just make the os better over time it's it's kind of like a software as a service but for a whole |
[787.84 --> 792.42] a whole os um and that's still what we do today when you know when heart bleed and shell shock |
[792.42 --> 797.16] came out our little sliver of the internet uh we had patched and fixed you know hours after the |
[797.16 --> 802.92] patches were available and not just like packages available for download like the running servers |
[802.92 --> 809.38] out there on the internet were upgraded and no longer vulnerable to the issue wow so it it's working |
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