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[1444.76 --> 1451.46] slash developers to learn more and tell them the changelog sent you so was the lack of that open |
[1451.46 --> 1456.90] standard was that kind of the crux of the matter that made you guys finally decide to do this as |
[1456.90 --> 1466.46] opposed to trying to contribute to docker or steer docker yeah i mean there's we've we've contributed |
[1466.46 --> 1471.76] and tried to steer the project you know for a while because we've been involved with the community for |
[1471.76 --> 1478.66] quite a while um and and so you know it's not that we aren't in fact i think we are steering the project |
[1478.66 --> 1485.40] the most we ever have now it's just a very heavy-handed way to do it yeah and so um i think |
[1485.40 --> 1491.24] look nobody argues with we want a more secure tool we want a more unixy tool and you follow the unix |
[1491.24 --> 1495.30] philosophy right and we want open standards and shared open standards across projects right like |
[1495.30 --> 1502.70] who doesn't want that right so so um so it's kind of a you know obvious thing to put out there and it |
[1502.70 --> 1508.20] was those three things in combination you know i wouldn't say it's any one of them again if our goal |
[1508.20 --> 1514.20] is to secure the internet and in a 1.0 product you know they don't even do signature validation yet |
[1514.20 --> 1518.38] on the thing that was downloaded it's kind of like well at some point we have to do something |
[1518.38 --> 1523.90] about that um and if you know we are building a system that we want to add containers to we're |
[1523.90 --> 1529.04] not trying to just build a you know we're not trying to help users download and run the docker |
[1529.04 --> 1535.16] platform as is we just want we want to add containers to the stuff we're building um then uh then we need |
[1535.16 --> 1540.44] the composability and the unixy kind of philosophy there and then on the standards front for me as like |
[1540.44 --> 1545.78] an open source guy it's like we have a shot at like cross cloud interoperability for the first time |
[1545.78 --> 1549.62] and it's about packaging an application in a container like we actually have a shot at it |
[1549.62 --> 1557.12] amazon and google and folks are sharing a standard around the container as a unit that is actually |
[1557.12 --> 1562.74] movable and in order for that to be actually widely adopted we need it to be written down so other tools |
[1562.74 --> 1568.68] can interop with it like and and so we just wrote it down we wrote down the ideal thing um that that we |
[1568.68 --> 1574.12] wanted and again i i believe what what this will cause over time is i hope a shared standard between |
[1574.12 --> 1581.48] rocket and docker essentially the firefox and chrome you know of of containers and and uh yeah |
[1581.48 --> 1587.44] and the firefox and chrome created a better internet it it made javascript way faster it made open |
[1587.44 --> 1592.38] standards stronger you know on all these things so even if they share a standard it's still good for |
[1592.38 --> 1598.40] for everybody if if you know multiple implementations of a standard exist it's funny the way |
[1598.40 --> 1603.40] your perspective because it reminds me jared a little bit about our call with uh tom del |
[1603.40 --> 1607.34] new huda cats with ember like they they weren't playing the short term they were playing the long |
[1607.34 --> 1611.56] term when it came to the tech they were building so completely different animals in terms of the tech |
[1611.56 --> 1618.86] but similar philosophies in the way they approached it um alex for you when whenever it said that um |
[1618.86 --> 1625.28] you're contributing back or in a more heavier hand obviously with rocket out there now um kind of |
[1625.28 --> 1629.58] guiding or steering the docker ship what is the relationship between what was the relationship |
[1629.58 --> 1635.82] i guess between core os and docker prior to and then post rocket release and how is that ship being |
[1635.82 --> 1643.68] uh steered collectively yeah i mean i hope that just the like technical stuff shines through again |
[1643.68 --> 1652.16] there's been a lot of like not non-technical focused fallouts from this um but i just hope that the |
[1652.16 --> 1659.00] technical merit shines through i think that rocket will create a better docker just in the same way |
[1659.00 --> 1665.22] that chrome created a better firefox um and and that's what i want best i just want i want containers |
[1665.22 --> 1672.04] to win and to be successful okay and and for a certain class of customers to adopt containers they they |
[1672.04 --> 1677.40] need security to be taken seriously they need to integrate it with existing environments and then |
[1677.40 --> 1680.62] they don't want to be locked in and so they want to have the ability to like build their own |
[1680.62 --> 1685.50] implementation of the thing that runs a container if they need to and so that's why we addressed you |
[1685.50 --> 1690.74] know those three things and i think containers overall are better for this in the long run and |
[1690.74 --> 1696.44] and while there is a path of like doing it by collaborating around one project we tried that |
[1696.44 --> 1701.90] around a year and a half maybe almost two years uh ineffectively to be able to guide the project in |
[1701.90 --> 1707.36] a way that that we thought mattered um and so we we just built the thing we wanted to build to solve |
[1707.36 --> 1712.52] the needs we wanted to solve you know so do you all have like collaboration do you have sort of |
[1712.52 --> 1717.64] channels open up between core os and docker to to sort of talk about the direction of containerization |
[1717.64 --> 1725.02] um you know brandon is on the docker governance board um so that's good and then you know as ceo i |
[1725.02 --> 1730.82] talked to the ceo of docker around ways to collaborate um you know but it's it's a little bit |
[1730.82 --> 1736.54] difficult given the current circumstances of how everything sort of played out but again that's |
[1736.54 --> 1741.48] just why i hope that the uh the technical merit of everything shines through and containers are |
[1741.48 --> 1746.02] better overall that's that's really what i want from this one more question for you on that note um |
[1746.02 --> 1752.92] and hopefully the way i ask it and the way you get to answer it is the best possible way i don't |
[1752.92 --> 1758.50] think it's i guess what i'm trying to ask sometimes i hem and haul over certain questions i don't want |
[1758.50 --> 1763.52] because i don't i never want to seem like we're trying to position a guest or this show in a way |
[1763.52 --> 1771.94] to throw stones and and i guess what i mean by that is is that um crap man i totally forgot my question |
[1771.94 --> 1777.54] now trying to explain it jared ask the question real quick i'll come back to it well i just i totally |
[1777.54 --> 1783.70] lost it no problem i want to just kind of uh talk about this this issue of redundant efforts versus |
[1783.70 --> 1789.66] competition and i think uh you know as engineers and developers like we're trying to squeeze like |
[1789.66 --> 1794.70] as much efficiency out of everything we do as possible and we see redundant efforts and it's like |
[1794.70 --> 1801.56] oh why you know why can't we all just work on one thing and and put all of our efforts together but |
[1801.56 --> 1807.68] um i think chrome and firefox is a great example time after time we see a competition in a marketplace |
[1807.68 --> 1814.50] whether you know uh any kind of marketplace even an open source actually just makes all the projects |
[1814.50 --> 1820.56] better and so you see the redundancy and you're like why can't we have a a single effort but |
[1820.56 --> 1827.16] historically every time we have competition amongst a diverse ecosystem like it raises the tide |
[1827.16 --> 1834.62] and everybody has to get better so so first off i in my lens of the world i see rocket and docker |
[1834.62 --> 1841.36] filling different things like docker when you think about it as a platform is much more like a mesos or |
[1841.36 --> 1847.10] cloud foundry or or something like that they use containers but they also like have all this clustering |
[1847.10 --> 1853.76] and sort of other stuff built around it okay and in my eyes rocket is just the container runtime |
[1853.76 --> 1858.04] essentially what people originally thought of docker as the thing that downloads and runs a container |
[1858.04 --> 1864.92] and that's it so the companies that will use rocket are the ones that have existing platforms like some |
[1864.92 --> 1869.72] internal environment that they want to add a container to or the platform product companies themselves |
[1869.72 --> 1874.70] these are things like cloud foundry and mesos or even you know amazon and google like that want to add a |
[1874.70 --> 1880.04] container to an existing thing they already have clustering they already have other stuff in the |
[1880.04 --> 1885.98] environment that they want to integrate with um and docker is in my eyes and just like how i see it |
[1885.98 --> 1891.56] going and this could have changed because of rocket but when we made these decisions um the way it was |
[1891.56 --> 1896.24] going is more of a soup to nuts platform in and of itself something you could take off the shelf to run |
[1896.24 --> 1901.86] your infrastructure which is meant for companies that want like they need in a platform of some sort |
[1901.86 --> 1906.18] to run which is fine and again a lot of companies need that so it makes a lot of sense okay |
[1906.18 --> 1911.26] but the container piece that we want is to have containers interoperable between a bunch of |
[1911.26 --> 1914.92] different platforms you know not just have like there's the one container thing and the one |
[1914.92 --> 1920.18] container thing you can do with it um and so that's the i i guess my point in this is i see them as |
[1920.18 --> 1926.46] actually distinctly different things um you know the firefox and chrome analogy i think applies for like |
[1926.46 --> 1930.96] let's just step up security on the way that you download an image and validate it before you run it |
[1930.96 --> 1937.16] um and so on and and those things apply but but rocket is a component docker is a product |
[1937.16 --> 1942.96] and that's like the core kind of difference is aren't there two pieces i mean isn't docker |
[1942.96 --> 1950.02] um both isn't there still that idea of a container and yet then there's services around it it seems like |
[1950.02 --> 1957.96] in my mind i see the two and maybe they're merging or becoming one um do you see it as just the |
[1957.96 --> 1964.80] platform there's no such thing as a docker uh single container that can be used there's the |
[1964.80 --> 1972.08] docker single container in there but it's it's a again there's a component in there so like the way |
[1972.08 --> 1978.30] we can get technical right it's okay to kind of get into the weeds a little bit okay so the way that |
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