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**Jerod Santo:** What were some programs or some languages that integrated libcurl throughout the years? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Early on -- PHP is really one of the first ones... And I think that helped us to get really far... Because PHP adopted Curl as the default way to do HTTP really early, so it got some widespread adoption early on... I think that was one of the big ones; it got me really excited when I realized that ... |
I don't remember exactly now in which order everything, but over the years, of course, more and more programs and more and more programs have adopted to use libcurl for the transfer parts... And I would say that today libcurl is the bigger part of the curl project, because curl the command line tool is more like Linux ... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[12:22\] So it started off HTTP-focused, and it's still known for that today, but if you go to the homepage, you find out how many protocols this thing supports. It's kind of mind-numbing. Dict, which I don't even know what that is, File Protocol, FTP, FTPS, Gopher, HTTP, HTTPS, LDAP, LDAPS, POP3, POP... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Keep going, I like it. |
**Jerod Santo:** TELNET, TFTP... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Go, go, go. |
**Jerod Santo:** SSL certificate, HTTP POST, PUT, FTP Uploading, HTTP form-based upload, proxies, HTTP/2... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There's more. |
**Jerod Santo:** Ooh, HTTP/2... Cookies, user + password authentication... Man, I'm not done yet. I'm gonna stop. This shows what productivity can do over a sustained 17-year time span. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Exactly. Nobody thought-- |
**Jerod Santo:** Nobody thought you'd just be building all of these things in. Is all the stuff in libcurl? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah. What was the growth of these protocols? Was it just kind of organic, over time, and based on people requesting them, or people submitting them themselves? How did all this come into it? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Most of the features are just kind of creeping in over time. People contribute different patches, and have ideas, and I wanted to do things by myself, of course... So it is mostly organic. We're adding things all the time, and people are contributing things. And then of course, I've had a couple of... |
For example, I did the SCP pretty much paid sponsorships... And I did a bunch of the others -- I did the POP3, IMAP, SMTP support also with the help of companies paying my time to implement those. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Well, that's something you hear about a lot in open source these days, especially as a project goes from "Oh, that's nice" to wide adoption. And to the degree that curl has been widely adopted, you would imagine that at some point along the way you were able to at least financially benefit fro... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Right. And especially when adding new stuff, that is the easier part to get financing for, since the companies want to do things with curl, and they can easily find room to pay me to do something that it doesn't do already, and that they want in their product, or whatever. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** How do you make the decision to put something in there? Let's say Jerod and I wanted to pay to put something in there that was obscure, just for us... Do you say yes because you're getting pay, or do you say no...? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** No... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What defines the line there for you? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** I've kind of been fortunate that I haven't been -- I've been able to pick my paid projects; I pretty much cherry-picked them, and I have only picked those that have matched what I think is fine for the project... I've never agreed to merge anything into the main line that I think isn't in line with... |
**Jerod Santo:** \[16:22\] You've also had a whole lot of contributors over the years. It looks like on your Thanks page there's a massive 1,265 people that have provided code feedback, advice etc. over the years. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's an astounding number, right? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah, it's a totally insane number... But it's also a result of me keeping very close track of contributors. I'm trying to -- I mean, it's open source, and the only way I can "pay" people is by thanking them and showing gratitude... And clearly marking and saying thanks, and "This (whatever) was do... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, I was noticing in a comment on your blog somebody was actually impressed that they found their name in the Thank You list, even though they'd only submitted a single bug once... And looked at that as a very minor contribution, and yet you documented that and you added them to your list, and here ... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Right. And I try to do that. I still try to do that. Of course, if someone submits a bug report, that person's name will end up in the Thanks list, and of course, that might be a bit weird then if I also add someone who contributed a very large piece of code, or whatever... But on the other hand, i... |
**Jerod Santo:** And you've seen the adoption -- we'll probably talk a little bit more about adoption later, but just thinking about all the work that's gone into it, all the people that have contributed... Of course, yourself, if you go to the GitHub, you have thousands and thousands of commits over the years, and I'm... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** I'm not sure what that is, actually... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, it's like, they just printed the source of a script they're running? I'm not sure what that is either... We'll link that up in the show notes. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** I actually think it's an ad for that company. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh, really? That's interesting... So they're showing how hacker they are, or what? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah, it's an API-- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's a post back to apiallthethings.com, with a flag of d, and getting a free shirt at Apigee... |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh... Nice. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So that's Apigee advertising right there... |
**Jerod Santo:** See, I didn't zoom in. I just looked at it from far away and thought "You know when people accidentally blue-screen in public? That was one of those..." |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah... So it might be on purpose. I just got that -- I just saw the picture and thought that it was fun. I can't explain-- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That is awesome. It's a cool ad though. Side bar on that, but way to target your audience... No one gets that except from someone who understands curl. |
**Jerod Santo:** Right. Yeah, it's actually a good ad. I thought it was the NASDAQ people messing up, but... Interesting. Well, still cool to see your command line program blasted up on some big board somewhere... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah, it is. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[20:04\] ...which makes me think of all of the -- we can go through the list of companies and projects that have used curl as part of their product, and all the people that have benefitted over the years from your work... And it makes me think "How much work do you actually have into this thing?" 17 y... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah, I can do a rough estimate... |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay, let's hear it. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** I would say that over the years I've spent almost every day about two hours on curl. |
**Jerod Santo:** Wow. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** So that makes it around 15 hours a week, for about 17 years. |
**Jerod Santo:** Wow. So 15 x 52, and 17 roughly... 13,260. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Something like that. |
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