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**Beyang Liu:** That's been really interesting. I personally haven't played around with it yet. It's actually interesting, because that is kind of like a text-based approach to searching over code, and a lot of the answers you can get from that setup, you can actually kind of get from Sourcegraph already. So if you're ... |
**Erik St. Martin:** Right, because the BigQuery stuff, a lot of people were writing regular expressions, where you've kind of tokenized the stuff as you were crawling it, so it's much easier for you to look for specific things. "I want a function named this", rather than having to write a regular expression to match a... |
**Beyang Liu:** Yeah. I will say that stuff is really cool, though. One of the things that people don't realize enough, I think, is code is just another form of data. It's not just this... People often tend to think of code as a form of text that you write in an editor, or a doc, or something like that, but it's really... |
In the future, you can imagine more senior members of the team, who care about overall code quality and maintainability of the codebase, and they worry about things that more junior engineers might be doing to shoot themselves in the foot, they can actually issue queries against a dataset - the global graph of code or ... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Interesting. |
**Erik St. Martin:** So is that kind of what's next for Sourcegraph, building some team tools for looking for things like that? |
**Beyang Liu:** Yes. You know, the individual use case stuff, the search and the snippets is really valuable for every programmer in terms of the day-to-day stuff that you do, but I think that the real value is just gonna be in the way that we can change how teams work together to build software. So it's things like is... |
We think a lot about the impact that we're gonna have on team productivity, because I think that software engineering is still in the early days in terms of software engineering methodology and best practices. |
It's astounding to me that in 2016 a software project like healthcare.gov is not a trivial thing to do. You can't just take a team of 4-5 programmers and implement that. And I think a lot of what we wanna do is address the pains that software teams have that prevent them from executing on projects like that. |
**Erik St. Martin:** That's interesting. So on top of this stuff that you have globally, you guys offer on-premise installs of Sourcegraph too, right? |
**Beyang Liu:** Yeah. We're kind of limited in who we go on-prem with right now, just because we're still a small team and on-prem is a bit of a larger commitment. Our main on-prem customer right now is Twitter, and we're kind of holding off on on-prem for smaller customers at the moment, but we do offer an on-prem sol... |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, I mean all of that comes with support and keeping people up to date, and all that jazz. So talk to us a little bit about your usage of Go at Sourcegraph. Is most of this stuff primarily written in Go? |
**Beyang Liu:** Yeah, most of the application stack is written in Go. Basically, everything except the frontend, which of course is JavaScript, and the language analysis stuff, which is more polyglot. But everything else is basically written in Go. Go has been amazing for two reasons. One, it's just a really solid tool... |
I think the tooling around Go is so solid that it really lets you think of code more as this form of data that you can modify with other tools, not just by handcrafting it, hand typing it in. Things like go generate, for instance... All the metaprogramming that is enabled in Go would be much tougher in other languages ... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Oh, absolutely. I couldn't agree with that more. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Just make Brian type it all out. He's got this. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** \[20:04\] No, I'm the king of code generation. If you can generate it, I'm your guy. |
**Beyang Liu:** Yeah, it's great. And then there's also... Alan Donovan has done such great work with Go oracle. I think the talk that I was most looking forward that I'm sad I'm missing at GopherCon is the talk he's gonna give on the Go Guru, which is kind of like an extension of the Go oracle that he's designed for e... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Did you know that we're live streaming GopherCon this year? |
**Beyang Liu:** I did not. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Well, part of it, the morning. |
**Beyang Liu:** I will probably tune in. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Yeah, we're live streaming the morning shows at twitch.tv/gophercon. |
**Beyang Liu:** Nice. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** So if you just tune in to twitch.tv/gophercon, if I can make the whole streaming thing work... I mean, I'm an old guy, I don't know. This whole Twitch thing is for the young kids. But if we can make the streaming work then you'll be able to catch that talk at 9:35 AM on the 11th. |
**Beyang Liu:** That's awesome. I have to say, the two GopherCons that I've gone to have been just top notch. Thanks for all the work that you guys put in to make that happen. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Thank you. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Thank you, it's our love, the community. |
**Erik St. Martin:** It's fun and it's stressful, but I think the kind of reward from it is better than the stress we get from it. But yeah, we're a few days off from it. Actually, Brian hops on a plane tomorrow morning... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I am. |
**Erik St. Martin:** And then I follow him the next morning. So it's coming up. |
**Beyang Liu:** How has it been to watch that thing grow along with the Go community over the years? |
**Erik St. Martin:** I think it was mostly mind-blowing. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Do you want the truth? \[laughter\] The first year was the craziest obviously, because we didn't know what we were doing, and we learned a lot the first year. Last year we had some ideas, but we grew into the Convention Center, which changed the rules for everything. That made it a much, much bigger... |
This year, it's our second year at the Convention Center, so we have a better idea of what we're doing, but the Go landscape is changing a little bit. We have a different set of sponsors this year, or a portion of them... We always have some of the same people come back over and over and we truly appreciate that, but w... |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, I mean we're still learning each year, too... How technical the talks should be, whether we should do multi track or single track... We're still kind of experimenting a little bit to figure out what the exact format is, but people still keep coming, so we're doing something right, I guess. |
**Beyang Liu:** Yeah, that's interesting. Any broader trends you've noticed in the Go landscape? Like who is using Go, who is coming to the conference? |
**Erik St. Martin:** I think Brian and I - we continue to come back to this whole... Most of the new distributed systems tools are all being written in Go, we just continuously see that. Every new distributed systems tool that comes out is written in Go, and I don't know whether it's because Go is the best language for... |
**Beyang Liu:** Yeah, that's really interesting. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** I think the thing that's surprised me most this year is the fact that we're seeing registrations from really off-the-wall places. There was an auto parts store that registered a couple employees two or three weeks ago. |
**Beyang Liu:** Really? That's crazy. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** It is. And when that email hit my inbox, I thought, "That's a big adoption point for Go." It's not a tech company, it's not some VC-funded startup somewhere, they're not cutting edge, whatever, it's just an auto parts company. To me that felt like an inflection point for Go. |
**Beyang Liu:** \[24:02\] I think that speaks to one of the broader trends, not just in Go but in the software world in general, which is more and more you're seeing companies that you don't think of as traditional tech companies becoming highly depending on the software they're able to build. |
Have you guys seen the new GE ad campaign, where the tagline essentially is "GE is a digital company that happens to do infrastructure", and the whole point of it is to appeal more to software engineers and convince people that GE is kind of a software-first organization. |
**Erik St. Martin:** It's almost impossible to have any business without software anymore. We depend on it so much for just about everything. |
**Beyang Liu:** Yeah, totally. Business logic has been a term that has existed for a long time now, and often been misused, but now it's like more and more the logic of your business is in the business logic of your code. |
**Erik St. Martin:** And it's safer there, too. \[laughter\] |
**Brian Ketelsen:** It depends on who's writing it. You see, there's a big competitive advantage for some companies if they have software systems that allow them to provide whatever their goods or services are faster. I think of Walmart as the shining example of a company that uses really cutting edge software to cut t... |
**Beyang Liu:** Yeah, and as that shift is happening, I think Go is pretty good because the tooling is so good around it, but in a lot of other language ecosystems I really think that the tooling is kind of lagging behind all the places where software is becoming critical. Take a look at a typical, large, non-technolog... |
Something that we think about a lot is how can we build the tooling ecosystem and the programming assistant or individuals and teams that enable organizations that are not necessarily steeped in software development methodology, so they need better tools to efficiently build things and deliver things on time. I think t... |
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