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**Carlisia Thompson:** It's a separate thing, and I think it's even worse than assuming that certain elitist things require somebody to be super smart; that's one big problem. But assuming that a person because they are not a straight male - or maybe even a straight white male - they're not smart enough to do harder wo... |
**Erik St. Martin:** I hate it because usually I like to play devil's advocate; I like to at least understand the position somebody's coming from, even if I don't agree with them. But in this, I truly don't understand how anybody can think that somehow women are not smart enough to do that. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Well, this was a woman, too. It's even worse when it's a woman saying "No, you can't do that, honey." |
**Ashley McNamara:** I think that it's way more common that we think, especially outside of our industry. When you're in college, it seems impossible to learn this, I'm sure, from anyone who doesn't know about it. I think that the sexism is worse outside of our industry. |
**Erik St. Martin:** I think it comes to perseverance, right? It's not about born talent, it's about who's gonna take the struggle and continue through it, and who's gonna look at it and be like, "Oh, this is a lot to learn. I just don't wanna do it anymore." When we tell people, even if she continues on that path, now... |
**Ashley McNamara:** \[36:17\] That's already happened, and I'm having to steer her through it, and it's frustrating, because I'm her mother, so she tends to listen to me less. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** But the advisor reinforced it. |
**Ashley McNamara:** She needed that advisor. |
**Erik St. Martin:** You're the parent, you're automatically not as smart as she is. |
**Ashley McNamara:** Exactly. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I don't think it's like that. I think she's the parent, therefore she's biased. She might say "I think you are sufficiently capable to do this program" and she'll say "Well, you're my mother, of course you think that." |
**Erik St. Martin:** "As a parent you're going to be supportive always" type of ordeal... You're not gonna tell it to them straight. |
**Carlisia Thompson:** It's so important for people to be sensitive to these issues... |
**Ashley McNamara:** And it makes me wonder if that's why people are ending up in bootcamps, because they were unable to get the classes in college... I wonder how often this happens now. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Because somebody talked them out of it? |
**Ashley McNamara:** Yeah. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Ugh! |
**Carlisia Thompson:** Let's change subjects. |
**Erik St. Martin:** So on a positive note on this getting more people into stem and kids... The other night I saw a really awesome Verizon commercial. It went through LeBron James, and there's some actors and models and stuff -- basically, like "We don't need more LeBron James, we don't need more...", and showing the ... |
**Ashley McNamara:** I'm gonna have to look this commercial up. You should put it in the Slack channel. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Yeah, I'll drop it in the Slack channel now, but it is actually in our doc. Copying link... |
And now everybody's gonna be listening to us live talk and listening to a commercial at the same time. \[laughter\] |
**Ashley McNamara:** Haha, awesome! |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Don't do it! |
**Erik St. Martin:** Should we give a moment of silence for everybody to listen? |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Well, why don't we take our next break right now, and that will be a perfect opportunity, Erik. |
**Erik St. Martin:** That is a ridiculously good idea. Too bad I didn't think of it. And I have to give you credit. \[laughter\] |
**Ashley McNamara:** Yeah, because we all heard it. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Alright, so our second sponsor for today is DataDog. |
**Break:** \[38:51\] |
**Ashley McNamara:** Well, I mean now they're making baby toys for programming concepts. Have you seen these things? They're like infant toys, which is great! We think that we are smart now... Just wait. Our kids are gonna crush us. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Well, we might as well just consider ourselves back on the air, because I think there's a real problem in that as we advance so much as a society, we are gaining such a tremendous amount of -- what is the word...? A corpus of knowledge that we can't possibly all know. So sure, the kids will know coo... |
**Ashley McNamara:** Okay, confession... I watch How It's Made, so that I can be that person that knows how... \[laughter\] |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Now the truth is out... Such an awesome show! |
**Erik St. Martin:** So we need to live near you. Zombie apocalypse... Where's Ashley? |
**Ashley McNamara:** Yeah, exactly! I know exactly how to make a coffee, but... |
**Erik St. Martin:** We've talked about this before too - I think that each generation we get further abstracted away from the things we use. I've mentioned this before... In the '50s if you owned a TV, you knew how to change the vacuum tubes; you went to the store and you bought one. In the '80s and probably early '90... |
**Ashley McNamara:** It goes to space and back, right...? \[laughter\] Yeah... |
**Erik St. Martin:** To Brian's point, Joe Rogan has a comedy bit where he talks about some of this stuff, and he's like "How many smart people are in the room?" And he's like, "No, I mean REALLY smart, not just use-stuff-made-by-smart-people... Like, how does your phone work?" \[laughter\] |
**Carlisia Thompson:** I love him. |
**Erik St. Martin:** He's just like "If you think you're smart... If I took you and gave you a hatchet and dropped you off in the middle of the forest/jungle, how long till you can send me an email?" \[laughter\] And it goes to show -- he's like "What would happen, what do you do when the power goes out?" He's like "I ... |
**Carlisia Thompson:** You don't have a fridge. Stop and think about it for a second - you don't have fridge. |
**Erik St. Martin:** Well, Brian and I would be safe. |
**Brian Ketelsen:** Yeah, I'm good. |
**Erik St. Martin:** We know how to smoke meat. \[laughter\] |
**Brian Ketelsen:** We have a lot of ammunition and a really big grill. |
**Erik St. Martin:** So that was the other thing he pointed out. He's like "I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "It's alright, I'd be safe. I've got a gun." He's like "But what happens when you run out of bullets? Do you know how to make a bullet? I don't know how to make a bullet." |
**Ashley McNamara:** I know how to reload bullets... \[laughter\] |
**Erik St. Martin:** \[43:48\] So it's just a really good point that despite you can look around and think you know about a lot of stuff, there's always gonna be things you don't know. There was a Survival(ish) show I watched a number of years ago where they put a programmer or electrician with a carpenter and a medic ... |
**Brian Ketelsen:** That was a cool show. |
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