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**Jerod Santo:** Trickle-down... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** ...they do it so that we as users of their services, we get a better experience. Hopefully, YouTube will play x% better when we use it over QUIC and HTTP/3, and so on. But possibly, you need one of those infrastructures to be one of those to actually benefit or be able to provide that. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** How much do you pay attention then to, say, 5G and the explosion of IoT devices and the non-human devices out there? Obviously, you run Curl, so you pay attention to that stuff to some degree, considering what you build and run... But thinking about network latency, as 5G rolls out and it becomes mo... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yeah, ideally they will do that. I think they will certainly help in that direction. Also, I think we're only seeing the beginning of this all. So there's going to be a lot of more development, stuff done with QUIC and over QUIC. So I think it's going to improve further as we go forward. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** How far is your vantage point then? Is your vantage point considering 23 years in? Is your vantage point now less one to two years down the road and more like five to ten, in terms of paying attention to future tech and future direction? Because I had a separate conversation that sort of like gave m... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Right. But for me as a person involved with Curl, it doesn't really matter to me... Because I'm going to support my users 3G, 4G, 5G, connected, Wi-Fi... It doesn't matter. Because all my users - and there are plenty - they use whatever they can to do things over the network. So they might do more ... |
\[28:10\] So I don't see any particular change in anything for me or what's going on. And for me personally, I don't really try to predict the future long in advance; I'm just looking at what we're doing right now and trying to see what should I work on the next few months, really. |
**Jerod Santo:** So from Curl's present-day perspective, H/3 has been a pain in the butt, I'm guessing. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** It's a complicated base to support. We support it experimentally in Curl, and anyone can get Curl and build with HTTP/3 support. You can go to Facebook, Instagram, Google, Cloudflare - they all support HTTP/3 the draft versions today. So if you enable it in your browsers, you can actually use it to... |
So it's there and you can start fiddling with it, but for me - I'm playing with it just a little bit on the side and seeing how things go. And since there are so many beta versions and unstable releases of everything to use to just build this... So a lot of moving parts still; it needs to get stable first. |
**Break:** \[29:22\] |
**Jerod Santo:** So as Adam said at the top, your Twitter followers provided a whole bunch of awesome questions, things they can't wait to hear from you... So we're happy to make them happy. And we had this one note that says "The Spotify and Instagram hacking ring story." I don't know what that is, but I'm excited to ... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** \[laughs\] That's one of my favorite stories in Curl. So it started out with a woman who emailed me once... This was 3-4 years ago. She emailed me about her Instagram account being hacked, and she asked me to help her. |
**Jerod Santo:** Okay... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** \[unintelligible 00:30:36.22\] "Why is this woman emailing me about the hacked Instagram account?" "I have no idea, you shouldn't ask me." And then she sent me a screen capture of her About window, and said "But look, your name is here. You can just ask your friends to help me out here." |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] |
**Daniel Stenberg:** "Alright, you've found my name on Instagram..." |
**Jerod Santo:** There you go... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** At that point I had no idea that Instagram even used Curl, so... "Alright, that's fun." |
**Jerod Santo:** That's fun... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Exactly. |
**Jerod Santo:** There's only a billion users or so... Or however many they have... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Oh, indeed, yeah. A lot of users. She didn't consider it as fun as I did. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So it was a good day for you and it was a bad day for her. |
**Jerod Santo:** That's fun. "Thanks for emailing me." |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Exactly. I thought, "Oh, that's really fun... But I've never talked to them, I don't know them..." I tried to explain to her that they're just using a component of source code that I've built." That's cool, right? And she really had a hard time to accept that... "But you know, you can just ask them... |
**Jerod Santo:** She's like, "Come on..." |
**Daniel Stenberg:** So a little bit of back and forth, and I said "No, I don't know them." Eventually, I think she sort of bought that... And she went silent for a week or two weeks. Then suddenly she emailed me back again. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** "You've been lying to me the whole time", she said. "Because look, you did hack my phone." And then another screen capture, Spotify. There was my name, too. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[31:58\] Oh, no...! |
**Daniel Stenberg:** \[laughter\] So apparently she had discovered me completely, because my name was in both Instagram and Spotify, so obviously I had hacked her phone. And my secret Instagram and Spotify hacking ring - unless I helped her, she was going to reveal this to these big companies. |
**Jerod Santo:** She's gonna tell Instagram and Spotify that you've been hacking... |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yes. "And you wouldn't want that", she said. \[laughter\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That is hilarious. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, from her perspective though, she had to have an a-ha moment when she had her second instance on Spotify... Because you'd convinced her that you had nothing to do with it, and then -- |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Right... |
**Jerod Santo:** When she saw your name the second time, I could be her in my mind, and think "You know what - I got him. He's lying to me. Here he is again." |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Exactly. I could sort of feel that "I caught you! I caught you red-handed. You lied to me!" I sort of gave up at that point. I really couldn't -- I tried to say "No, they also use--" \[laughs\] She thought that was a little bit too much of a coincidence for it to be true. |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah... Is it alphabetical? I wonder why you were the one... Because there's usually hundreds of things listed on those About pages, and maybe it's just alphabetical and Curl is out there near the top. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** I think one of the rare instances where my email address is actually in there, often... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Really? |
**Daniel Stenberg:** Yes. At least that's an explanation I've gotten many times from -- people using cars have emailed me. Someone has a problem to figure out the language in their GPS emails me and asks me \[unintelligible 00:33:31.03\] And then I ask "Why are you emailing me?" And they're like "I've found your email ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** This is a sure sign of frustrated users who cannot get support from-- |
**Jerod Santo:** Yes... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Maybe in this case she reached out to Instagram and was like "Hey, who's hacking me?" and she just decided to take it upon herself, or the person that's driving this car, that's like "Hey, I'm having issues with my self-driving car. It's wrecking all the time..." |
**Daniel Stenberg:** And I think that's also one of the problems I have, because the frustration level at these people... At that point they've probably trusted everything, tried everything, contacted everyone they can imagine, then banging their head against it, and then they find my email address and email me... And ... |
**Jerod Santo:** Random to you. |
**Daniel Stenberg:** ...confused. |
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