text stringlengths 0 1.8k |
|---|
[3053.16 --> 3059.20] So if you start there without knowing the lay of the land, you went like in extreme mode. |
[3059.54 --> 3061.36] So good luck trying to figure all those things out. |
[3061.42 --> 3066.72] And I think this was actually even before Cozy, like six months ago, nine months ago, somewhere around there. |
[3067.06 --> 3069.22] And I know that you've made strides since then. |
[3069.34 --> 3070.26] And things are clearer. |
[3070.38 --> 3071.70] Things are better, as you would expect. |
[3071.70 --> 3075.14] So I think that I know what I'm going to do next. |
[3075.44 --> 3078.98] And for someone that doesn't even run Docker locally, I just like everything in the cloud. |
[3079.02 --> 3082.92] Because if it's on my machine, well, how do I know that it will run in the cloud? |
[3083.00 --> 3089.18] But I know that Talos makes it slightly different, even though most things it runs locally, but it will not work the same in the cloud. |
[3089.24 --> 3090.92] And that's always like a friction. |
[3090.92 --> 3094.58] I want to touch on that because I actually think that that's really important to point out. |
[3094.70 --> 3100.52] And that's actually a huge motivating factor around Talos was because I was managing Kubernetes clusters. |
[3101.08 --> 3105.58] And, you know, the first place that I was doing this, we were debating, should we do this with bare metal? |
[3105.80 --> 3106.78] Can we run CoreOS? |
[3107.48 --> 3112.40] Well, typically we run CentOS, but we're also running, you know, this up in AWS. |
[3112.78 --> 3114.92] And I wanted this consistency story. |
[3114.92 --> 3122.90] And then we also had our developers that were saying, hey, I want to be able to actually spin this up on my local laptop and not depend on anything that you guys have set up. |
[3123.36 --> 3129.38] Even though we went to great lengths to give them testing environments, they still ended up just creating their own. |
[3129.72 --> 3134.96] And so Talos is really beautiful in that sense because it's literally the same image. |
[3135.06 --> 3139.94] The same image that runs right there on your laptop can be rolled out to anywhere. |
[3140.16 --> 3143.48] Raspberry Pis, the cloud, bare metal, anywhere that you can imagine. |
[3143.48 --> 3146.88] And the experience is going to be consistent, more or less. |
[3147.02 --> 3154.66] Obviously, when you're running in containers, you have the element of the kernel being the host operating systems kernel and networking and stuff like that. |
[3154.72 --> 3156.02] But that's minor, right? |
[3156.08 --> 3158.58] Those are things that you can kind of craft after the fact. |
[3158.88 --> 3161.94] I feel that you've shared a secret with us, at least with me. |
[3162.04 --> 3163.72] And now I know what I mean to do next. |
[3163.76 --> 3164.98] So thank you very much for that. |
[3165.58 --> 3166.20] Of course. |
[3166.52 --> 3172.36] The next thing which I'm thinking about is why would someone want to pick Talos over, let's say, Debian or Ubuntu? |
[3172.36 --> 3173.58] What would you say to them? |
[3174.04 --> 3174.20] Yeah. |
[3174.32 --> 3176.98] So this is a question that we usually get. |
[3177.32 --> 3187.20] One of the main reasons that you really would consider Talos over, you know, like you said, something like Debian is because these things simply come with way too much at the end of the day. |
[3187.30 --> 3189.32] They come with package managers. |
[3189.32 --> 3195.74] They come with an extra set of packages that you simply don't need if all you're concerned with is running Kubernetes. |
[3196.10 --> 3203.94] In some cases, you even have to do upgrades of the nodes for things completely unrelated for the purposes of running Kubernetes. |
[3204.32 --> 3208.50] And this is just unnecessary, to put it simply, right? |
[3208.50 --> 3212.42] So the first point is the minimalism that you're going to get with Talos. |
[3212.56 --> 3214.68] It's only about 50 megabytes. |
[3215.32 --> 3221.74] At the end of the day, you're going to get something extremely small comparative to everything else out there. |
[3221.78 --> 3223.14] You're going to get no package manager. |
[3223.72 --> 3226.12] We don't even have SSH or Bash, right? |
[3226.12 --> 3238.20] And the reason why we did things like that is, or why we removed those was because if you've ever operated Kubernetes to, at any scale, right, you found yourself constantly duplicating work. |
[3238.30 --> 3239.66] You had to manage users. |
[3239.90 --> 3242.30] You had to manage hardening. |
[3242.46 --> 3243.76] You had to manage automation. |
[3244.40 --> 3248.98] But at two different layers, you had Kubernetes itself that you have to worry about and then at the operating system itself. |
[3248.98 --> 3255.70] And so the whole goal with Talos is to just remove that node element entirely so that you can focus on just the cluster. |
[3255.94 --> 3263.74] We like to tell people that we want them to look at the cluster as one giant machine and the nodes simply as more compute to that. |
[3263.88 --> 3266.26] So it's just more CPU and RAM to a bigger machine. |
[3266.96 --> 3274.74] We can't really look at it like that if we have to concern ourselves with who's logging on there, what have they changed, permissions, automating it. |
[3274.84 --> 3277.50] Just this overhead simply should go away. |
[3277.50 --> 3281.70] And that's first and foremost one of the reasons why you should consider Talos. |
[3282.22 --> 3285.16] And secondly, we have a really strong security emphasis. |
[3285.42 --> 3290.54] We recently just went through a whole exercise of actually securing our supply chain. |
[3290.62 --> 3292.48] So now everything's completely reproducible. |
[3292.68 --> 3298.44] You can get all of the checksums and make sure that you're actually running the intended version of Talos. |
[3298.86 --> 3300.26] The file system is read-only. |
[3300.66 --> 3303.32] As I mentioned, Talos is only 50 megabytes. |
[3303.44 --> 3307.18] What I didn't mention is that it's delivered as a Squash FS, which is only read-only. |
[3307.50 --> 3309.30] And there is no other way to run it. |
[3309.42 --> 3311.32] It is also completely ephemeral. |
[3311.88 --> 3314.86] Now, Kubernetes, of course, needs places to write things. |
[3314.86 --> 3316.94] And there's only one place in Talos that's writable. |
[3317.12 --> 3321.76] It's slash var, at least writable in the sense that it's going to be persisted across reboots. |
[3322.08 --> 3324.58] Of course, we have slash temp and things like that. |
[3325.14 --> 3328.22] But that is completely ephemeral and only Talos uses those places. |
[3328.76 --> 3331.30] And so you're going to get a much more hardened experience. |
[3331.42 --> 3332.56] You're going to get people that can't. |
[3332.56 --> 3338.06] You're going to completely eliminate the possibility of people going on there and making a node a snowflake. |
[3338.06 --> 3341.40] It's really just Kubernetes that can change. |
[3341.84 --> 3346.88] And so that's a huge benefit when you're talking about running anything more than 10 nodes. |
[3346.88 --> 3352.70] I know that everybody's thinking about security chain attacks and security of everything. |
[3353.16 --> 3355.24] Software, developers, signing. |
[3355.50 --> 3363.24] Like, can you just sign everything from your commit to the release, to the artifact, to what it runs, when it runs, |
[3363.30 --> 3366.64] so that you can trace it all the way back to the origin of the code being written. |
[3366.76 --> 3367.96] That's really, really important. |
[3367.96 --> 3374.94] I really like this minimalist story, not just from a security perspective, that you only run what you absolutely need, |
[3375.14 --> 3376.72] and you run it with the least privileges. |
[3376.72 --> 3378.64] That is very, very powerful. |
[3378.94 --> 3383.94] And I think it somehow has been forgotten in the age of containers and Docker, you know, |
[3384.00 --> 3386.24] because it was like the wild, wild west for a long, long time. |
[3386.68 --> 3392.68] And I'm really glad these concerns are now coming back, because I know how important they were 10, 15 years ago. |
[3392.94 --> 3394.30] So I can see the cycle. |
[3394.42 --> 3395.56] We're back where we started. |
[3395.56 --> 3402.16] So from that perspective, I know that these minimalist systems, one of the things that they replace, |
[3402.30 --> 3407.12] and I'm wondering whether Talos does the same thing, they replace GLibC for something like Musil. |
[3407.38 --> 3412.50] And what that tends to happen is GLibC is a lot more hardened, battle-hardened, battle-tested. |
[3412.78 --> 3416.96] So the performance on GLibC of anything tends to be better. |
[3417.54 --> 3424.04] So what I've seen is like weird crashes, weird degradations, weird like IO performance when you don't run GLibC. |
[3424.04 --> 3425.68] So what does Talos use? |
[3425.96 --> 3428.86] We actually use Musil, and we haven't seen that at all. |
[3428.98 --> 3434.56] And I think that may largely be due to the fact that the only reason that we run Musil, let's see, |
[3434.62 --> 3437.00] we only have a handful of things really on the root FS. |
[3437.22 --> 3445.78] We have container D, and we have XFS progs, and maybe some LVM tooling, and then Talos itself. |
[3445.78 --> 3451.96] And so the actual C libraries that are running in Talos are practically negligible. |
[3452.12 --> 3453.02] It's practically zero. |
[3453.32 --> 3454.92] We don't even have system D. |
Subsets and Splits
No community queries yet
The top public SQL queries from the community will appear here once available.